We are simply not talented

[4everwarriors]

proudly. Afterall, this is a country of the free and the brave.

[mviale]

ask duke and wisconsin about Marquette not having talent.

[jaygall31]

doesn't it come down to seriously just having a decent big man?

[JetCityWarrior]

I think only bilsu hit it right on this topic.  I think people have some nice warm, fuzzy blinders on about Marquette as a school and its location.  Love the school, love Milwaukee.  Unfortunately, I'd say only about 25% of the population west of the Mississippi know Marquette is a college, not just a town in the UP.  Whereas, they know every other college listed in this thread. 

MU is a small, private university in Milwaukee.  Milwaukee. Brand new to the Big East (not the ACC, not the Big Ten...). Crean is working from a serious point of disadvantage and the fact that MU even tastes the NCAA's at all is awesome. 

And yes, he needs to land a big man one of these days.

[jaygall31]

well said warrior...but the bigeast is the ACC and BIG ten though, in the same class though at least, right?

[Schoolyard]

I think only bilsu hit it right on this topic.  I think people have some nice warm, fuzzy blinders on about Marquette as a school and its location.  Love the school, love Milwaukee.  Unfortunately, I'd say only about 25% of the population west of the Mississippi know Marquette is a college, not just a town in the UP.  Whereas, they know every other college listed in this thread. 

MU is a small, private university in Milwaukee.  Milwaukee. Brand new to the Big East (not the ACC, not the Big Ten...). Crean is working from a serious point of disadvantage and the fact that MU even tastes the NCAA's at all is awesome. 

And yes, he needs to land a big man one of these days.

Why do we even field a basketball team?  We seem to have no chance to succeed. 

[muPARTY]

I'll tell you what muPARTY, show me the last MU coach that has done that in the last 25 years and you might have a case. 

you say that, but then i read all over these boards and hear from feloow fans, how great Tom Crean is and would you rather go back to Deane, O'neil, ect.  except one appearence in the Final Four, there hasn't been much seperation.  i'm just saying, if he's talked about as being the best since Al and Hank, then he should be held to a higher standard than the other other MU coaches the past 25yrs.  and as you said there hasn't been an MU coach to go out and do that, so he hasn't

But if you must, Steve Novak was offered by Illinois and Florida, he chose MU.

There's one but he didn't "go into another territory" to find him.  Mbakwe was offered by several Big Ten schools, including his own state school....Crean took him out of there. 

Tyshawn Taylor...offered by Kansas, Georgia Tech, North Carolina, Missouri, Virginia, St. John's, Cincinnati, West Virginia and Virginia Tech....signed with Marquette.

Nick Williams from Alabama....MU goes into SEC country and grabs this kid away from Auburn and Alabama who were still trying to get him out of his verbal only a few weeks before signing period.


I could go on

I never said he never recruited talent.  as a D-1 coach who makes $1.6+mil a yr one would hope he would get talent.  i was addressing how people claim recruits like Wade and James as big profile recruits because of what they achieved after getting to school.  i was addressing, that they weren't the highly sought players coming out of high school. 

and while he did go and get Williams, Taylor, Mbakwe, how does that address MU's needs?  Williams and Taylor, 2 more guards?  next yrs lineup has:
5'11 james
6'2 mcneal
6'4 Matthews
5'7 acker
6'0 cubillan
6'3 Chirstopherson
6'3 Taylor
6'3 willaims

Lazar is 6'6, hazel is 6'7, burke is 6'8, and mbakwe is 6'7

where is the going into other regions and getting the big post player that Marquette has so sorely needed and he has never...neeeeeeeeverrrr recruit?

Get your story correct...Wade's grades weren't awful, he had issues with his test scores.

wow, how i could be so wrong.  sorry i used a little hyperbole.  fact of the matter is, his academics led him to only be recruited by 2 Conference-USA schools (MU and depaul) and a Valley school (Illinois St).  not exactly the cream of the crop now is it?

[muPARTY]

He was offered by both Notre Dame and Indiana.  Notre Dame pulled the offer after he refused to commit early and ended up signing Kyle mcIlarney.  Indiana came in at the last minute with an offer.  That was why it was such bs when everyone blamed Davis for not offering him.  Davis had extended the offer but by that time it was too late.

so Tom Crean had to compete with a Notre Dame that didn't exist anymore and with an Indiana offer that came too late?

i'll stipulate to him getting the offers (based on your word) but when James was ready to chose a school to play at, Notre Dame didn't extend an offer and Indiana came when it was too late.  so hence when it mattered, neither school offered him a scholarship.

(sorry, i've having a hard time transfering my thoughts into words, a lot on my mind.)

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'll tell you what muPARTY, show me the last MU coach that has done that in the last 25 years and you might have a case. 

you say that, but then i read all over these boards and hear from feloow fans, how great Tom Crean is and would you rather go back to Deane, O'neil, ect.  except one appearence in the Final Four, there hasn't been much seperation.  i'm just saying, if he's talked about as being the best since Al and Hank, then he should be held to a higher standard than the other other MU coaches the past 25yrs.  and as you said there hasn't been an MU coach to go out and do that, so he hasn't



Well, here's where we disagree.  First, there are a ton of good coaches out there, I'm not saying another one couldn't do better or worse.  It comes down to expectations and reality for me.

Now, as for the past 25 years, I don't see it the way you do.  You say there hasn't been much separation between those guys.  I beg to differ.

First, Crean has had 0 losing seasons.
O'Neill and Deane both had losing seasons
Advantage Crean

Crean did take a team to the Final Four.  People can crap on that accomplishment if they want, I don't.  Small non-football schools don't make it there very regularly.
KO took a team to the Sweet 16, Deane got a team to the round of 32
Advantage Crean

KO looked to get out after 4 years and did leave his 5th year
Deane looked to get out after 3 years and was asked to leave in his 5th year
I have no doubt Crean has looked as well, but he's still here in his 9th year...first coach to do that at MU in decades.


KO got to coach in the MCC and the Great Midwest
Deane got to coachin the Great Midwest and CUSA
Crean got to coach in CUSA and the Big East
Who had it toughest yet despite that, still has had the best results?
Advantage Crean

But if you must, Steve Novak was offered by Illinois and Florida, he chose MU.

There's one but he didn't "go into another territory" to find him.  Mbakwe was offered by several Big Ten schools, including his own state school....Crean took him out of there. 

Tyshawn Taylor...offered by Kansas, Georgia Tech, North Carolina, Missouri, Virginia, St. John's, Cincinnati, West Virginia and Virginia Tech....signed with Marquette.

Nick Williams from Alabama....MU goes into SEC country and grabs this kid away from Auburn and Alabama who were still trying to get him out of his verbal only a few weeks before signing period.


I could go on

I never said he never recruited talent.  as a D-1 coach who makes $1.6+mil a yr one would hope he would get talent.  i was addressing how people claim recruits like Wade and James as big profile recruits because of what they achieved after getting to school.  i was addressing, that they weren't the highly sought players coming out of high school. 

and while he did go and get Williams, Taylor, Mbakwe, how does that address MU's needs?  Williams and Taylor, 2 more guards?  next yrs lineup has:
5'11 james
6'2 mcneal
6'4 Matthews
5'7 acker
6'0 cubillan
6'3 Chirstopherson
6'3 Taylor
6'3 willaims

Lazar is 6'6, hazel is 6'7, burke is 6'8, and mbakwe is 6'7

where is the going into other regions and getting the big post player that Marquette has so sorely needed and he has never...neeeeeeeeverrrr recruit?


Steve Novak wasn't highly regarded out of high school?  Matthews?  James?  McNeal?  Etc.  Are you being serious?  

As for the post players, hey he has gone after a lot of them and he hasn't landed them.  You're right, though next year we have a few bigs coming in.  I think when you have a chance to land a Taylor, you take it.  James is likely gone this year, so you take a stud PG if he is available.

Get your story correct...Wade's grades weren't awful, he had issues with his test scores.

wow, how i could be so wrong.  sorry i used a little hyperbole.  fact of the matter is, his academics led him to only be recruited by 2 Conference-USA schools (MU and depaul) and a Valley school (Illinois St).  not exactly the cream of the crop now is it?

Nope, not the cream of the crop but glad he had the foresight to recruit him....don't you?  I mean, we could be saying something like..."here's this kid in our backyard that turned out to be a total stud and we didn't take a chance".  But we did take a chance and it worked out great.   I have one of my best friends as an AD at a school in the midwest, and we talked a few times about who he lets his coaches go after.  He will let his coaches go after a kid with questionable grades or scores on one condition....character.  He has to be a high character kid.  That's the cut off.  I think this is what Crean did in this case.

For whatever reason, an awful lot of people sure want to hold that against him.  


As I mentioned a few days ago, it's been since 1979-80 since the last time MU went to three straight NCAA tournaments.  Not Majerus, not Dukiet, not KO, not Deane.  If we make it this year, we will have done it...without Dwyane Wade and while playing in the monster Big East.

I'm sorry, I don't see that as something that is WRONG with the program.  I see that as an incredible opportunity and an accomplishment that hasn't been seen by an awful lot of people here.

Finally, I don't think people here are saying he's God's gift or the best recruiter around.  The question for me becomes how is he doing in relative terms.  At age 40, perhaps on the brink of a 3rd straight NCAA appearance...I see that as a good thing.  Recruiting to a Catholic school in the Midwest, not as easy as recruiting to a state school in the sunbelt...he could do better in some areas, I think he will (Mbakwe was a start and more on the way). 

[Marquette84]

Unfortunately, I'd say only about 25% of the population west of the Mississippi know Marquette is a college, not just a town in the UP.  Whereas, they know every other college listed in this thread. 

Actually they do know that Marquette is a college.  They just think it's located in the UP.