We are simply not talented

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

The reason we were embarrassed last night is simple...Crean is a lousy recruiter. You cannot look at those two teams and honestly say we have even near the talent that Louisville has.

Crean is constantly drawing raves from national writers who don't follow the team for his recruiting. Who, other than Wesley, has he signed where he had to beat out another school? Who? James? He was a fallback plan when that kid from Brother Rice signed with North Carolina? McNeal? He was offered by Dayton. Hayward didn't start on his high school team. Cubillan was the last of his HS team to sign with a team. Barro didn't play in high school. Acker is a 5'7" transfer from Ball State.

I mean, where does this idea that Crean is a good recruiter come from? Where?!?!

You want to know what a recruiting "bump" is from a Final Four appearance? Take a look at Louisville.

I will grant you that our junior class is a decent class -- not great as I don't think any of them would start for Louisville, but after our FF in 2003, here are our classes:

2003 class
James Matthews -- GONE
Carlton Christian -- GONE
Dameon Mason -- GONE
Brandon Bell -- GONE
(AN ENTIRE YEAR OF RECRUITING A COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME!!!)
 
2004
Amoroso -- GONE
Kinsella
Lott (JC)
 
2005
James
McNeal
Matthews
Burke
Mortensen -- GONE
 
2006
Hayward
Cubillian
Blackledge (JC)


We looked like a JV team last night and the reason is that we have a bunch of JV recruits.

Frankly, with the post season performance we've had the last 4 years and the 4 routs in league play, I suspect that a half-empty Bradley Center will be the rule rather than the exception the rest of the way.

[MUCam]

Bravo. Per the usual, you take a few good points and take them so far off to the extreme as to make yourself appear completely irrational and illogical.

Yay for extremist points of view.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

We looked like a JV team last night and the reason is that we have a bunch of JV recruits.

Frankly, with the post season performance we've had the last 4 years and the 4 routs in league play, I suspect that a half-empty Bradley Center will be the rule rather than the exception the rest of the way.

Do you really believe this?

I understand your frustration, but the Bradley will be full for Pitt and Georgetown... to think otherwise is irrational.

Just stop and think about it...

[NavinRJohnson]

Bravo. Per the usual, you take a few good points and take them so far off to the extreme as to make yourself appear completely irrational and illogical.

Yay for extremist points of view.

Amen. It is very frustrating to see UL with 4 guys that are 6-10 and can play, and for the most part we don't have any (With apologies to Mbakwe who is unfortunately unavailable at the moment). Obviously finding those talented big guys is a challenge for most teams, and Crean is no exception, but to suggest that we are completely devoid of talent is just stupid.

As for the 1/2 empty BC comment - also, just stupid.

[MarquetteFan94]

The reason we were embarrassed last night is simple...Crean is a lousy recruiter. You cannot look at those two teams and honestly say we have even near the talent that Louisville has.

Crean is constantly drawing raves from national writers who don't follow the team for his recruiting. Who, other than Wesley, has he signed where he had to beat out another school? Who? James? He was a fallback plan when that kid from Brother Rice signed with North Carolina? McNeal? He was offered by Dayton. Hayward didn't start on his high school team. Cubillan was the last of his HS team to sign with a team. Barro didn't play in high school. Acker is a 5'7" transfer from Ball State.

I mean, where does this idea that Crean is a good recruiter come from? Where?!?!

You want to know what a recruiting "bump" is from a Final Four appearance? Take a look at Louisville.

I will grant you that our junior class is a decent class -- not great as I don't think any of them would start for Louisville, but after our FF in 2003, here are our classes:

2003 class
James Matthews -- GONE
Carlton Christian -- GONE
Dameon Mason -- GONE
Brandon Bell -- GONE
(AN ENTIRE YEAR OF RECRUITING A COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME!!!)
 
2004
Amoroso -- GONE
Kinsella
Lott (JC)
 
2005
James
McNeal
Matthews
Burke
Mortensen -- GONE
 
2006
Hayward
Cubillian
Blackledge (JC)


We looked like a JV team last night and the reason is that we have a bunch of JV recruits.

Frankly, with the post season performance we've had the last 4 years and the 4 routs in league play, I suspect that a half-empty Bradley Center will be the rule rather than the exception the rest of the way.

Do you remember Steve Novak, Travis Diener or Dwyane Wade?  Would you rather have Bobby Frasor than Dominc James?
Louisville was picked 2nd in the BE...when healthy...btw, they are healthy.

Pitino didn't need a Final Four bump...he got it when he showed up.  That's what happens when your name is Rick Pitino.  You don't think Hayward is a solid player?  You don't think he chose MU over other schools?

Out of Matthews, Mason, Bell or Christian...which would you like to see on this team?

Were you this critical of Deane's recruiting?

Do you really think there will be 9,500 people showing up at the BC for the remaining games?

Do you think a team that is not talented can beat ND by 26 and win on the road at WI?  What other untalented teams can pull that off?

Ridiculous.

[ecompt]

I think what's really upsetting is that while we get a lot of attention for our guards, they're only about the sixth-best group in this conference. It's one thing not to recruit good big men if you have great guards, but our guards are far from great and take no one by surprise anymore.

[bma725]

Crean is constantly drawing raves from national writers who don't follow the team for his recruiting. Who, other than Wesley, has he signed where he had to beat out another school? Who? James? He was a fallback plan when that kid from Brother Rice signed with North Carolina? McNeal? He was offered by Dayton. Hayward didn't start on his high school team. Cubillan was the last of his HS team to sign with a team. Barro didn't play in high school. Acker is a 5'7" transfer from Ball State.

Shocking that once again you have your facts wrong.  James was never a fallback plan.  The goal was James and Frasor, not Frasor instead of James.  And he got James over MSU, OSU, ND, Indiana and Iowa.  The kid didn't come here because he had no other options.

Hayward was one of the most sought after swingmen in the country the year he came out.  You can talk about not starting all you want but he was a bonafide top 100 recruit with offers from some big name schools.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

You guys are right. Crean is a fantastic recruiter! Next year he's got two guys coming in here who he's never even seen play. If Buzz Williams quits like all the rest of our assistants, will they even show up in Milwaukee?

[NavinRJohnson]

I mean, where does this idea that Crean is a good recruiter come from? Where?!?!

Dwyane Wade, Travis Diener, Steve Novak, Robert Jackson, Todd Townsend, Scott Merritt, Dominick James, Jerel McNeal, Wesley Matthews, Lazar Hayward...

Take a look back at some of the All Conference teams, POY, Defensive POY, Freshman of the year honors, etc. It might provide you with a few clues as to where that idea comes from. C'mon Poindexter, you're better than that.

[MarquetteFan94]

You guys are right. Crean is a fantastic recruiter! Next year he's got two guys coming in here who he's never even seen play. If Buzz Williams quits like all the rest of our assistants, will they even show up in Milwaukee?

Do you want Assistant Coaches who want to be Assistants their entire career?

How about those "Final Four bumps" that LSU, Illinois, Georgia Tech, Oklahoma State and Maryland are experiencing...

Here's your chance.....Who should be our next coach?

[CTWarrior]

We have good talent, it's just not spread out properly. We are missing the three point shooter who can get catch and shoot in a hurry at a good percentage.  We are missing the guy who can catch the ball in the low post and make a move to score or make a solid pass for a score.  We are missing a 6-8 slasher/finisher.  We are missing the big guy who patrols the paint and discourages forays to the hoop.

James, Matthews, McNeal and Hayward would be good, useful players for any program in the country and were very good gets for Crean.  Problem is they all are the same kind of player.  We need more balance.

[AlumKCof93]

PRN,

I typically enjoy your posts and agree with a lot of them, but I think this one is taking things a bit too far.  I agree that the 3 amigos are a bit overrated as guards who can't shoot may not be the greatest recruits, but to suggest that they are a JV team is taking things a bit too far.  The obvious problem is the lack of a big man with scoring ability.  If MU had that, it would open things up more for everyone else.  I'm more concerned with the lack of development right now with the players than the guys who are coming in.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

I mean, where does this idea that Crean is a good recruiter come from? Where?!?!

Dwyane Wade, Travis Diener, Steve Novak, Robert Jackson, Todd Townsend, Scott Merritt, Dominick James, Jerel McNeal, Wesley Matthews, Lazar Hayward...

Take a look back at some of the All Conference teams, POY, Defensive POY, Freshman of the year honors, etc. It might provide you with a few clues as to where that idea comes from. C'mon Poindexter, you're better than that.

Todd Townsend?!?! You're using him as an example of good recruiting!? He was benched almost his entire junior year and was only a marginal contributor during a horrendous senior year. I would wager than his career scoring average was less than 6 points a game.

Jackson was a transfer!! Are you kidding?

Wade, Diener, Merritt...all were early in Crean's tenure...what have you done lately?

As for McNeal and James...am I missing something? Were these guys highly recruited?  

I do like Hayward, however.

[bma725]

I mean, where does this idea that Crean is a good recruiter come from? Where?!?!

Dwyane Wade, Travis Diener, Steve Novak, Robert Jackson, Todd Townsend, Scott Merritt, Dominick James, Jerel McNeal, Wesley Matthews, Lazar Hayward...

Take a look back at some of the All Conference teams, POY, Defensive POY, Freshman of the year honors, etc. It might provide you with a few clues as to where that idea comes from. C'mon Poindexter, you're better than that.

Todd Townsend?!?! You're using him as an example of good recruiting!? He was benched almost his entire junior year and was only a marginal contributor during a horrendous senior year. I would wager than his career scoring average was less than 6 points a game.

Jackson was a transfer!! Are you kidding?

Wade, Diener, Merritt...all were early in Crean's tenure...what have you done lately?

As for McNeal and James...am I missing something? Were these guys highly recruited?  

I do like Hayward, however.

You seriously don't think James was highly recruited?  He was one of the most sought after players in the country that year.  He had offers from MSU, Notre Dame, Ohio State, Iowa, Purdue, Xavier...and Indiana came in at the last minute with an offer. Schools like Louisville, Kansas and Florida were involved and their interest in him was actually picking up when Crean got him to commit.

McNeal wasn't as highly recruited but Purdue and Dayton were on him very hard when he committed to MU.

[NavinRJohnson]

I think I get it now...the player you are recruiting in HS, is more important than the player that kid translates to in college. Well, using that logic, Dwyane Wade was a bust, and don't forget Sam Okey...what a stud!

[nyg]

For a team that plays in the best conference in the country, has numerous games televised on national tv and a prominent history in NCAA basketball, I still do not understand why MU cannot, on a continuing basis, be in contention for a top 50 recruit.  Yes this year, we were in for Iman Shumpert and came close, but did not close the deal.  Nick Williams may move up based upon his senior year and T. Taylor has some height at point.  By now you noticied all are guards and not frontcourt. If you look at these upper echelon players and their schools of potential interest, MU is hardly ever considered.  Maybe the staff has the fear of the one year/two year up and out, but at least make an effort.  Why are these players not including MU in their interests? I have no clue. With James, Matthews and McNeal all gone, 2009 will be the make or break recruiting year, since we actually in the running for some playmakers, to include Jamil Wilson (a must), Maurice Creek, Dominic Cheek and I believe Flavian Davis, who may be 2010 (?).  

[Buzz Williams' Spillproof Chiclets Cup]

The thing that I just noticed, probably because I never thought about it is that this team has really not had any "new blood" at all this year.

We are more or less the same team in terms of the players who get regular minutes (Dwight Burke picking up for Jamil Lott), but other than some token minutes from Christopherson, and the addition of a 5'8" transfer, have we really put out a team that was THAT DIFFERENT from last year's team?

[NavinRJohnson]

The thing that I just noticed, probably because I never thought about it is that this team has really not had any "new blood" at all this year.

We are more or less the same team in terms of the players who get regular minutes (Dwight Burke picking up for Jamil Lott), but other than some token minutes from Christopherson, and the addition of a 5'8" transfer, have we really put out a team that was THAT DIFFERENT from last year's team?

Its a good point, and illustrates that the impact of the injuries to Christopherson and Mbakwe has probably been severely underestimated.

[tonyreeder]

You guys are right. Crean is a fantastic recruiter! Next year he's got two guys coming in here who he's never even seen play. If Buzz Williams quits like all the rest of our assistants, will they even show up in Milwaukee?

Do you want Assistant Coaches who want to be Assistants their entire career?

How about those "Final Four bumps" that LSU, Illinois, Georgia Tech, Oklahoma State

and Maryland are experiencing...

Here's your chance.....Who should be our next coach?

I'll play this game.

Sean Miller-Xavier
Brian Gregory-Dayton
Tony Bennett-WSU
Scott Drew-Baylor
Anthony Grant-VCU

Have no idea what the interest would be but that's who I'd target.  I don't hate Crean and I appreciate what he's done at Marquette.  I hate the people who feel he can do no wrong.  I hate the people who feel if Crean left that the Marquette basketball program would shrivel up into a ball and whimper like a little girl.   We're a Big East school with a beautiful practice facility with outstanding fan support.  Hey, I completely agree that Tom Crean has a great deal to do with these things.  Again, thanks Tom.  But with the built in advantages this program has and its willingness to pay the head basketball coach a crap load of money this program will survive just fine. Hopefully a new coach would conduct himself with a little more class than what Crean did last night by walking off the court and not shaking the other team's hands.

[NavinRJohnson]

I'll play this game.

Sean Miller-Xavier
Brian Gregory-Dayton
Tony Bennett-WSU
Scott Drew-Baylor
Anthony Grant-VCU

Have no idea what the interest would be but that's who I'd target.

Fine choices, but what have any of those guys done that Crean didn't do back around 2002 or so? With the possible exception of WSU, and Xavier who has had a couple good years, those guys have basically gotten their programs to the level MU was at a few years back.  What have any of them done that Crean has not? For example, Dayton is  11-12 in the A-10 the last 2 seasons combined. WSU has a worse conference record than MU this year. Grant has had some success in the Colonial League. How exactly would they constitute an upgrade?

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

I'd settle for a coach who is even marginally likable.

By the way, the job Scott Drew has done at Baylor is nothing short of a miracle. How is he getting good recruits to Waco on the heels of them almost dropping the basketball program?

[MarquetteFan94]

Plenty of people like Crean.

Baylor must be getting all marquee, top 50 recruits that were offered by tons of other schools...and all of Drew's assistants must love him and never aspire to leave.

Those 5 coaches previously mentioned have 2 NCAA tournament wins......combined.

[tonyreeder]

I'll play this game.

Sean Miller-Xavier
Brian Gregory-Dayton
Tony Bennett-WSU
Scott Drew-Baylor
Anthony Grant-VCU

Have no idea what the interest would be but that's who I'd target.

Fine choices, but what have any of those guys done that Crean didn't do back around 2002 or so? With the possible exception of WSU, and Xavier who has had a couple good years, those guys have basically gotten their programs to the level MU was at a few years back.  What have any of them done that Crean has not? For example, Dayton is  11-12 in the A-10 the last 2 seasons combined. WSU has a worse conference record than MU this year. Grant has had some success in the Colonial League. How exactly would they constitute an upgrade?

I'm not saying fire Tom Crean and hire one of these guys. I'm saying if Tom Crean leaves I think the program survives just fine with one of these guys.  Honestly, I don't think there's a chance in hell Crean gets fired. He will have to leave to take another job.  My first choice would be Drew.  What he's done with Baylor is astounding. That program was as close to the death penalty as you could possibly be and here is having them contend for an NCAA berth.   Miller would be #2.   He's got the Pitt and BE ties, he can recruit.  Any five of these guys would be coming into a situation at Marquette that is easier to win then where they are at.  Again, thanks to Crean.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Plenty of people like Crean.

Baylor must be getting all marquee, top 50 recruits that were offered by tons of other schools...and all of Drew's assistants must love him and never aspire to leave.

Those 5 coaches previously mentioned have 2 NCAA tournament wins......combined.

Without Wade, Crean has zero...combined.

[NavinRJohnson]

I'd settle for a coach who is even marginally likable.

The naivety in that statement is mind blowing. Ever met the man? Ever witnessed him in a situation not necessarily involving basketball? I'm guessing not. I have personally witnessed things that make suggestions that he lacks class or is unlikeable among the most absurd things ever posted on these boards. That is quite a feat.