MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: detroitwarrior on July 11, 2008, 12:31:02 PM
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At the top and bottom of the link.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/basketball/mens/news/story?id=3482877
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Can't wait to see this kid on campus; and although he might lack DJ's freakish athleticism, it sounds like his overall game is pretty solid. I am no longer questioning the future of this program, as I did on april 1st.
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Pic and article for the lazy...;)
(http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/0711/scouts_junior_200.jpg)
Point guard Junior Cadougan (6'0, 190) from Toronto, Ontario, (Committed Marquette) is as good as advertised. He was terrific at getting to the rim off high ball screens and finishing through contact. Also, he showed the ability to read the defense by making the right decision whether that is shooting the jumper if his defender goes under the screen or finding the open man when his penetration is cut off. Cadougan is excellent at being the coach on the floor as he directs his teammates constantly. He is faster with the ball than without and escapes defenders in transition for layups. Has a good midrange game but must be a more consistent 3-point shooter -- although he is accurate enough to always keep the defense honest. He needs to improve his conditioning -- he looked a little heavy. Cadougan has battled a foot injury that noticeably slowed him from being as explosive with the ball during Tuesday's games. That being said, he was still very impressive.
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His positves are his competitiveness, handling the ball in transition, and seeing the floor & setting up others particularily off transition----his negatives are lack of PG quickness, athleticism, and perimeter shooting-----not sure he will be able to breakdown BE defenses.
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And you know this because....?
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ecompt----I have seen several of those "feel good videos" where every shot goes in and every exceptional pass is caught by the camera. Have to factor that out of course, but what;'s left is a gauge of his quickness and athleticism, which seems lacking.
Now I said the same thing about Travis Diener (lack of quickness & athleticism) and he proved me wrong, but TD could shoot treys (43%) and made big improvements in his technique in breaking down defenses begining in his junior year. Whether or not Junior has that type of upside to overcome his athletic & quickness limitations remains to be seen.
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I have no idea how quick he is now. But you have to consider he is reportedly over weight and recovering from a broken foot. It would seem reasonable to me that with the proper conditioning program his quickness would improve. Dwayne Wade and Dameon Mason could not shoot a three either. However, one of the differences between them was the fact that Wade could pass the ball off on a drive to the basket. Mason could not. It sounds like Cadougan can pass the ball off. The key here is to draw the defenses attention and then make them pay for it.
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And you know this because....?
Murff says he saw a couple of highlight clips from which he can gauge everything. Of course, this is the same guy that called diener "dime-a-dozen". Go figure.
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Wade was superb at dishing off----Mason could make the obvious dishoffs, but not the "eyes behind his head" dishes like DW. But one thing they both had was quickness on the penetration to be able to draw defenders to them ----- not sure if Cadaogan has that type of quickness.
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Wade was superb at dishing off----Mason could make the obvious dishoffs, but not the "eyes behind his head" dishes like DW. But one thing they both had was quickness on the penetration to be able to draw defenders to them ----- not sure if Cadaogan has that type of quickness.
Mason never made the dishoffs. He would simply put his head down and barge into the lane usually taking an off-balance shot. The coaches constantly tried to get DM to keep his head up. Never did so. Huge waste of talent.
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I am sure glad Buzz and the coaching staff actually evaluate the recruits and not Murf. I don't think any recruit in the country is good enough for Murf. We might as well fold the program now since all of our recruits are flawed - right Murf?
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Mason never made the dishoffs. He would simply put his head down and barge into the lane usually taking an off-balance shot. The coaches constantly tried to get DM to keep his head up. Never did so. Huge waste of talent.
What in the world are you talking about-----Mason averaged 3 apg his last year-----how in the world did he get those assists if he "never" made those dishoffs?????
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I am sure glad Buzz and the coaching staff actually evaluate the recruits and not Murf. I don't think any recruit in the country is good enough for Murf. We might as well fold the program now since all of our recruits are flawed - right Murf?
Wrong----I think Mbakwe, Fulce, Hayward, Dj, McNeal, Mathews are all good recruits. Cadougan may be a good recruit as well, but he has limitations----I like quickness, athleticism, and trey shooting ability in my PG. Of course in all the above cases there were better people available.
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He sounds like a great four year player. MU has benefitted greatly the last few years from having players were were on the cusp of the NBA, but not quite there. We should really reap the benefit this year with McNeal, James, and Matthews as seniors.
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I like quickness, athleticism, and trey shooting ability in my PG. Of course in all the above cases there were better people available.
Sounds like you love Mo Acker hey? I mean he's as quick as they come, he's like 5'4" (listed at 5'7"...standing next to him definitely not) and can just about dunk the ball, and can shoot the three pointer. Who needs a point guard who can handle the ball, pass the ball, and run an offense? And the size and strength of a point guard don't matter, especially in the Big East.
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ecompt----I have seen several of those "feel good videos" where every shot goes in and every exceptional pass is caught by the camera. Have to factor that out of course, but what;'s left is a gauge of his quickness and athleticism, which seems lacking.
Really? So, you factor out all of the good things a kid does in his highlight videos, and what do you have? Yeah, probably some negatives, since you've factored out the positives.
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What in the world are you talking about-----Mason averaged 3 apg his last year-----how in the world did he get those assists if he "never" made those dishoffs?????
What in the world are you talking about. DM had 57 assists in 31 games in his final MU season or an average of 1.8 APG. Nothing significant. and, those assists were primarily on the perimeter passing to Diener and Novak. Easy assists. Otherwise, DM would do as I stated. How soon you forget.
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Murf -Gibbons says that Cadougan is a top 60 player. He is being compared to Kahlid-el Amin (sp?) from Uconn and other powerfully built Pg's. Not able to break down defenses in the BE? We'll see.
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And you know this because....?
encompt, how dare you question a dime a dozen poster's opinion!!!!!!
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What in the world are you talking about. DM had 57 assists in 31 games in his final MU season or an average of 1.8 APG. Nothing significant. and, those assists were primarily on the perimeter passing to Diener and Novak. Easy assists. Otherwise, DM would do as I stated. How soon you forget.
OK 2 apg, but that means he had quite a few more setups where the ball didn't go in and therefore wasn't credited with an assist.
I remember vividly his last year where he would penetrate and kick-----he would go for the finish quite a bit too, but he did work the inside/outside game----i watch for that like a hawk-----that's the most important part of a successful offense.
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Murf -Gibbons says that Cadougan is a top 60 player. He is being compared to Kahlid-el Amin (sp?) from Uconn and other powerfully built Pg's. Not able to break down defenses in the BE? We'll see.
Well Gibbons has him higher than everyone else-----there are rankings where he's not even in the top 100.
Diener wasn't quick or athletic either but he could hit treys and also the pullup. Most of Cadougan's points come off finishes-----like Diener though he isn't going to get that finish off at the hoop especially in the BE. In camps where defense isn't emphasized it's easy to get inside and finish-----althought the other day I see where Junior Cadougan stopped cold in his dribble penetration by a guy named Bradley!
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Diener wasn't quick or athletic either but he could hit treys and also the pullup. Most of Cadougan's points come off finishes-----like Diener though he isn't going to get that finish off at the hoop especially in the BE. In camps where defense isn't emphasized it's easy to get inside and finish-----althought the other day I see where Junior Cadougan stopped cold in his dribble penetration by a guy named Bradley!
Steve Nash is a good 3 point shooter, but he isn't the quickest player in the NBA (Chris Paul, Allen Iverson, Tony Parker, etc.), and he is definitely not athletic, but he somehow has no problem playing the point guard in the NBA. He also gets to the hoop, and FINISHES at will despite those things. But yeah, shooting, quickness, and athleticism are more important than running an offense, having a good basketball IQ, ball handling, and passing ability when it comes to a point guard, so Steve Nash isn't anything special.
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Steve Nash is a good 3 point shooter, but he isn't the quickest player in the NBA (Chris Paul, Allen Iverson, Tony Parker, etc.), and he is definitely not athletic, but he somehow has no problem playing the point guard in the NBA. He also gets to the hoop, and FINISHES at will despite those things. But yeah, shooting, quickness, and athleticism are more important than running an offense, having a good basketball IQ, ball handling, and passing ability when it comes to a point guard, so Steve Nash isn't anything special.
You are talking about a guy with exceptional skills-----all you prove with that example is that it' possible to play PG without quickness and athleticism-----but then again just about anything is possible.
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I agree with Murf...last time we saw a guard with comparable body/speed in the BE it was Lavance Fields or Kahlid Elhamin (sp?). We surely don't want pg's like that. They struggle in the BE.
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You are talking about a guy with exceptional skills-----all you prove with that example is that it' possible to play PG without quickness and athleticism-----but then again just about anything is possible.
Yeah that's the point, you can play point guard without quickness and athleticism, which you say are the most important things in a point guard (to go along with 3 point shooting), and I'm saying it's far more important to have good ball handling, a high basketball IQ, the ability to run an offense, and strength in a point guard. I would argue that you can be a good point guard without being great at any of those 3 areas that you suggest (although to play any D1 guard position you have to have some degree of athleticism and quickness), but to be a good point guard at the D1 level you have to be great in at least 3 of the 4 areas I suggest.
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I agree with Murf...last time we saw a guard with comparable body/speed in the BE it was Lavance Fields or Kahlid Elhamin (sp?). We surely don't want pg's like that. They struggle in the BE.
So now you are saying that Caduogan is the second coming of Fields or el amin------and I'm sure you know that for sure.
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Yeah that's the point, you can play point guard without quickness and athleticism, which you say are the most important things in a point guard (to go along with 3 point shooting), and I'm saying it's far more important to have good ball handling, a high basketball IQ, the ability to run an offense, and strength in a point guard. I would argue that you can be a good point guard without being great at any of those 3 areas that you suggest (although to play any D1 guard position you have to have some degree of athleticism and quickness), but to be a good point guard at the D1 level you have to be great in at least 3 of the 4 areas I suggest.
There are exceptions to everything, but yes quickness, athleticism, and 3 pt shooting are the most important qualities in a PG assumming ball handling skills, BB IQ are court saavy are givens.
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Alot of the posts have much to do with nothing. If you had me describe all the attributes I would WANT in my PG, it would be every single one mentioned by everyone else. To be a good PG in college, you must play your part, manage the offense. If there is a PG that can not manage the offense, he is just a small SG. I would rather have a floor general than the most atheletic or lights-out shooter on the court (I am not saying I am ok with 0 athleticism though). And by court general, I want a PG who can understand the defense, run the right offense, execute the play, and understand who should have the ball at the right time. Junior should work out for MU. Plus, how arrogant is anyone for thinking they can watch a couple of clips and make a better evalution on talent than guys who do it for a living. He is a top talent so I doubt he has 0 athletic ability. I think he will adjust to anything the BE will throw at him.
On top of that, every good PG is surrounded by talent and I think (hope) he will.
GO MU
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Whether it is Yahoo Rivals,Scout,NBA Draft.Net,HoopReports,Hoopmasters,Bob Gibbons/Espn etc, there is one consistent thread about Junior...he can play and is an awesome signing for MU. There is absoluely no mention of an issue of playing in the BE so contrary to those who sit from afar and assess talent based on viewing what they describe as "feel good " videos , I will rely on those who evaluate talent for a living and give them the benefit of the doubt until I can see Junior play myself several times. Anyway, the name Junior Cadougan just flat out sounds cool!
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Look, I want to believe as much as you do. But does it bother you when you see the report at CHN that one Avery Bradley while playing defense against Junior Cadougan "stayed in front of him making life very difficult and virtually shutting him down in the half court"? Also I see where JC has dropped from #16 to #20 on Scout's PG rankings.
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There are exceptions to everything, but yes quickness, athleticism, and 3 pt shooting are the most important qualities in a PG assumming ball handling skills, BB IQ are court saavy are givens.
What ??????
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So of the 6 things you just listed as "important" what are the top 3?
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Look, I want to believe as much as you do. But does it bother you when you see the report at CHN that one Avery Bradley while playing defense against Junior Cadougan "stayed in front of him making life very difficult and virtually shutting him down in the half court"? Also I see where JC has dropped from #16 to #20 on Scout's PG rankings.
Murff, other reports also indicated that Junior had a foot injury slowing him down. given all the other positive reports from the Reebok camp, I guess I would discount the Avery Bradley report. As far as Scout goes, most of the other raters have Junior going up significantly. Guess I'll go with the flow and ignore your "report".
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What ??????
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So of the 6 things you just listed as "important" what are the top 3?
Again most PGs have good ball handling skills and court savvy (these are the very basic skills to qualify for further evaluation)------but outside of the basic skills quickness, athleticism, and trey shooting are the most important.
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Murff, other reports also indicated that Junior had a foot injury slowing him down. given all the other positive reports from the Reebok camp, I guess I would discount the Avery Bradley report. As far as Scout goes, most of the other raters have Junior going up significantly. Guess I'll go with the flow and ignore your "report".
Oh I see, he only had a bad foot when he lined up against Avery Bradley-----but the rest of the camp time his foot was OK. So when he does things well he fights through whatever ails him, but when he fails----injury is the excuse.
What's the excuse as to why Scout dropped him from #16 PG to #20 PG???????
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Oh I see, he only had a bad foot when he lined up against Avery Bradley-----but the rest of the camp time his foot was OK. So when he does things well he fights through whatever ails him, but when he fails----injury is the excuse.
What's the excuse as to why Scout dropped him from #16 PG to #20 PG???????
What's the reason Hoopscoop moved him up from #37 in the country to #21 after the same camp Scout dropped him?
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Oh I see, he only had a bad foot when he lined up against Avery Bradley-----but the rest of the camp time his foot was OK. So when he does things well he fights through whatever ails him, but when he fails----injury is the excuse.
What's the excuse as to why Scout dropped him from #16 PG to #20 PG???????
Whatever Murff. The injury happened as the week went along. so, by the end it probably affected him more, especially against a solid opponent. Just the way it is. No rationalizations here. You read way too much into one report. As far as the rankings, again the majority are pushing JC upward. You seem to be ignoring the facts and using one ranking that supports your view?
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What do we know about Avery Bradley? Maybe he is extremely quick. Assuming Bradley stopped him, it does make a difference what talent level he has. There were reports that Cadougan stood out in scrimages at MU, when he visited. I of course was not there, but I assume he did get to play against McNeal and James and did okay against them.
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So now you are saying that Caduogan is the second coming of Fields or el amin------and I'm sure you know that for sure.
From what I read and see on him he has lagit chances of being that good. That's my opinion. Just like your opinion of him not being quick or athletic enough to make it in the BE. We'll see, but it sure is more fun to get excited about the kid coming to MU and having a chance to be a solid BE point guard. I'm happy it's not Johny Lacy, and I am excited to see if Caduogan can live up to the comparisons of El amin, Fields, Sherman Douglas, etc. I remember a guy at MSU (Cleeves) who wasn't fast, wasn't a great shooter, wasn't supper athletic, but he had loads of talent around him and he knew how to get them the ball. I also trust the MU coaches' evaluation of talent over yours any day.
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There are tons of quick guys who can't play as they just don't have "it". Junior seems to have "it" and a strong motor.
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From what I read and see on him he has lagit chances of being that good. That's my opinion. Just like your opinion of him not being quick or athletic enough to make it in the BE. We'll see, but it sure is more fun to get excited about the kid coming to MU and having a chance to be a solid BE point guard. I'm happy it's not Johny Lacy, and I am excited to see if Caduogan can live up to the comparisons of El amin, Fields, Sherman Douglas, etc. I remember a guy at MSU (Cleeves) who wasn't fast, wasn't a great shooter, wasn't supper athletic, but he had loads of talent around him and he knew how to get them the ball. I also trust the MU coaches' evaluation of talent over yours any day.
You are correct, IMO Cadoagan is the better choice than lacy who isn't a real PG----he's a small shooting guard like Couby.
I'm not asking you to trust me-------just telling you how it is-----IMO what you see now in Junior is what you will get-----PG's who are not athletic or quick coming out of generally have very little upside----very few exceptions apply!
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What do we know about Avery Bradley? Maybe he is extremely quick. Assuming Bradley stopped him, it does make a difference what talent level he has.
We know that Bradley is a top 20-30 talent, one of the most athletic shooting guards in the class of 2009, and considered a great on the ball defender.
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Espn's June 08 analysis seems to suggest he is quick enough and will be a nice point guard in the Big East. Of course, like all prospects, there are areas that need improvement.
http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/recruiting/tracker/player?recruitId=43474&season=2009&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fncb%2frecruiting%2ftracker%2fplayer%3frecruitId%3d43474%26season%3d2009
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I like what I hear about Caduogan. Seems like he will be a good floor general who will be able to direct traffic, see the court, and get other players in a good position to score while also being able to score himself when needed or if ignored by the D. From all accounts he kinda reminds me of the way Mark Jackson played. The fact that Murff doesn't like him only makes him a better prospect in my eyes.
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He is also ranked #79 in the ESPN #100 dated 7/11/08.
Jeronne Maymon is ranked #33 in the same list and Erik Williams #69.
http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/recruiting/tracker/espn100?season=2009&display=25&set=1&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fncb%2frecruiting%2ftracker%2fespn100%3fseason%3d2009%26display%3d25%26set%3d1
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I like what I hear about Caduogan. Seems like he will be a good floor general who will be able to direct traffic, see the court, and get other players in a good position to score while also being able to score himself when needed or if ignored by the D. From all accounts he kinda reminds me of the way Mark Jackson played. The fact that Murff doesn't like him only makes him a better prospect in my eyes.
Now I'm not saying he's going to be bust----I just think he has his limitations and that we could have done better.
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Murff,
Your "evaluation" is based on a short Highlight reel that's out on the internet and reading between the lines of a recent review that actually said Cadougan performed rather well.
You have to see why so many people are skeptical of your opinion because other recruiting experts have been very high on JC throughout the summer both at Gibson's camp and at the recent Reebok Camp. Why don't you wait to watch him play before passing judgement?
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Well in the face of this 'feel good" news at the camps, he drops in Scouts PG ranking #16 to #20----furthermore he is only a 3 star recruit. These camps are run and shoot which seems to be the best part of his game (transition)-----my reservations are based on his half court offense.
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Now I'm not saying he's going to be bust----I just think he has his limitations and that we could have done better.
you sould like a bitter old lady. Same sh## over and over.
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Murf, I am not sure if you like making stupid posts to get attention or what, but you're basing your opinion on a drop of rank from 16 to 20. Big Deal! He is still a good prospect. I don't know about you, but I think getting a top 20 PG is great. Who could have we gotten that would be significantly better?... No one. Be happy we are not getting someone who is a project.
You put so much value into athletic ability but that is probably the least important factor to be an effective PG. There are countless of a good college PG's that are not the most athletic players on the court: Lavance Fields, Scottie Reynolds, to name a couple in the BE. Neither one of those two can make a reverse dunk or alley-oop either.
I think Junior is the safe pick from the looks of his reviews because he doesn't make alot mistakes which is what we will need for 2009-10 year. The next two seasons are extremely important seasons. If we can get deeper in the tourney this year (which is expected) and get some good PR, and then make the 2010 tourney in a "re-building" year, I think Marquette can really begin to argue that we are a top program. I think our best chances for success for 2009-10 is to have a mature freshmen around some veterans/talent.
GO MU
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Now I'm not saying he's going to be bust----I just think he has his limitations and that we could have done better.
Who do you think would be better that MU actually had a shot at landing?
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he drops in Scouts PG ranking #16 to #20
What about the other rankings where he has gone up? Oh wait, you are just ignoring that and twisting facts to help your argument, just like you do every time.
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Lost in all of this is that it is unlikely that JC comes in like DJ and is handed the keys to the program. Buycks, Acker, and Cubillan will all be there and all have experience at the point. He may be getting decent minutes by the BEast season, but unless he is a complete stud, he won't be starting from day 1. I am confident that by the time he has to step up, he will be ready.
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It cracks me up that someone (Murffeus) can make a prognostication on a player that he has NEVER seen play live based on one "feel good "video, one Scouting agency where apparently Junior has dropped from the #16th best pg to the #20th best pg and one camp review where a top 30 guard had a great defensive game against Junior and ignore all the other ( at least 6) Scouting agencies who evaluate talent for a living that have given Junior glowing reviews ( while pointing out areas that need to be worked on) and indicated that he will be definitely rising in the rankings on their lists. I will trust the opinions of those who have actually seen him play and also Buzz and Tony Benford who have apparently seen him play for a year or two .
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What cracks me up is the Dameon Mason analogy. DM was Nuke LaLoosh--a million-dollar body with a ten-cent head. Never learned how to play the game, never wanted to learn how to play the game. Waste of talent. Sad.
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ecompt----when Mason committed to MU you were so excited you couldn't contain yiurself!
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What about the other rankings where he has gone up? Oh wait, you are just ignoring that and twisting facts to help your argument, just like you do every time.
Where has he gone up? By reading the internet reports out of these camps and you'd think he was the best PG in the USA-----yet scout demotes him. Does Rivals have him in his top their top 100?
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Rankings are all subjective by the scouts.
Eric Bossi has Junior Cadougan listed as #94 and as a three star ranked 20th pg is rated ahead of Jordan Hulls and Eric Bledsoe who are four stars and listed as the 8th and 10th best pgs respectively. In the same list Erik Williams is listed at #43 yet Jeronne Maymon doesn't rank ( probably because E Bossi hasn't seen him play).
As I recall, Dwade was not a four star either coming to MU and he developed quite nicely. I am not suggesting that Junior Cadougan can be compared to Dwade at all but merely that rankings and the number of stars only count for so much before a kid enters college, plays at a different level and improves his game.
http://kansas.scout.com/2/766423.html
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Rankings are all subjective by the scouts.
Eric Bossi has Junior Cadougan listed as #94 and as a three star ranked 20th pg is rated ahead of Jordan Hulls and Eric Bledsoe who are four stars and listed as the 8th and 10th best pgs respectively. In the same list Erik Williams is listed at #43 yet Jeronne Maymon doesn't rank ( probably because E Bossi hasn't seen him play).
As I recall, Dwade was not a four star either coming to MU and he developed quite nicely. I am not suggesting that Junior Cadougan can be compared to Dwade at all but merely that rankings and the number of stars only count for so much before a kid enters college, plays at a different level and improves his game.
http://kansas.scout.com/2/766423.html
Well I've seen Junior in a couple of those "feel good" videos where he is presented at his best----only his better plays are included------and to a guy who understands the game like I do and look beyond the fluff----I wasn't impressed. His strong suit is in the open court as he sees the floor well-----his limitations are in the half court offense. Unfortunatly for him, BE games are decided in the half court more often than not.
What i really like where some of those big studs in those two videos-----I don't know who they were, but they were impressive.
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Murf - ease up there - lets assume these schools saw great potential by offering Cadoughan
Memphis
Texas
Tennesseee
Louisville
USC
Texas A&M
He chose Marquette!!
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Murf - ease up there - lets assume these schools saw great potential by offering Cadoughan
Memphis
Texas
Tennesseee
Louisville
USC
Texas A&M
He chose Marquette!!
Most of those schools didn't offer him-----Louisville may have but dropped interest when they got a commitment from Siva.
BTW-----I think Buycks is a better PG prospect than Cadougan----neither are good shooters, but Buycks is quicker and more athletic----has more upside as a result!.
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What are you talking about, Murff? Find me the post where I "couldn't control myself." The only times I have trouble controlling myself is when I read some of the drivel you post. When you stick to X's and O's you're fine, but you are as stubborn as a mule and you simply refuse to see anyone else's point of view. Mason's talent was impressive, but he refused to listen to coaches who tried to improve his game. I would have loved to see how you as a coach would have handled him.
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and to a guy who understands the game like I do
He's right guys, who are we to question the great Murffieus, he who gets scared when a player drops 4 ranks in his respective position. I mean, rankings are always right. Just look at Kwame Brown, Joe Smith, Michael Olowakandi, etc. They all got drafted extremely high, meaning they were ranked great coming out of college, automatically making them legends of basketball. I mean, Junior's ONLY in the top 100, he's NOT the #1 ranked player in the nation...NOTHING to be excited about here!
Why do we ever question Murf? He knows all there is to know about basketball, and any recruit outside of the top 10 are terrible.
By the way, there isn't much defense being played in those videos that those 2 big studs you like on the inside are being showed along with Junior, yet you downplay Junior's accomplishments at a camp because of the lack of defense there. Double standard for those that we don't get, Murf?
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problem is, if Junior were recruited by Bo he'd be praising both of them to the heavens (you know, he'd be perfect in the swing offense that has revolutionized basketball). If Junior were recruited by Arizona and didn't win a championship, he'd be ripping Lute for not developing talent.
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Whatever happened to the "best" high school recruit that went to wisky a few years ago. Murf was salivating about this kid and I cannot even remember his name. I think he even had a murf hairdoo.
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Whatever happened to the "best" high school recruit that went to wisky a few years ago. Murf was salivating about this kid and I cannot even remember his name. I think he even had a murf hairdoo.
His name is Nankivil-----a former Mr Bb in Wisconsin----also the Gatorade POY!
You'll see plenty of him next year at UW!
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From last week's Reebok Camp:
Junior Cadougan (6-0, 2009):
A really solid all-around player, Cardougan played as if he was still being recruited (he committed to Marquette last week). Immediately, you notice that he is a leader on the court. He is a little heavy in the upper body, but that just enables him to overpower smaller point guards and also allows him to get his shot off inside against bigger players. He does not mind contact at all, and finished several times despite getting fouled while going to the rim. He ran the pick-and-roll with Renardo Sidney exceptionally well, either dishing to Sidney or driving the ball to the basket himself. He does not make many mistakes, and seems very mature and calm while out on the court. Cadougan makes smart decisions with the ball and knows exactly what speed the game needs to be played at for his team to win. He is crafty and usually drives diagonally, which makes it difficult for defenders to stay in front of him. I do wonder how effective he is with his left hand, but he was so tough to stop with his right hand that it did not matter.
College List: Committed to Marquette
http://w3.nbebasketball.com/index.php/reebok-all-american-camp-tuesday/
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I guess who needs for him to shoot when he can do this:
He does not mind contact at all, and finished several times despite getting fouled while going to the rim.
We haven't had a fearless driver (McNeal is one) since Wade (maybe Diener).
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I guess who needs for him to shoot when he can do this:
He does not mind contact at all, and finished several times despite getting fouled while going to the rim.
We haven't had a fearless driver (McNeal is one) since Wade (maybe Diener).
He's not especially quick----he can get inside in an atmosphere where defense isn't emphasized but how about the BE defenses? How about zones in Div 1-----he will need to be able to shoot from the perimeter to be effective!
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He's not especially quick----he can get inside in an atmosphere where defense isn't emphasized but how about the BE defenses? How about zones in Div 1-----he will need to be able to shoot from the perimeter to be effective!
Yeah size is all he has. Has never made an outside shot, has never gotten by a defender, but he's still a top 100 recruit in the nation...I see why you're concerned.
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He's built like Levanse Fields at Pitt. Fields isn't the quickest guy around but he's physical and knows how to use his body well. I'm sure people were knocking him for his "portly" size when he arrived and he seems to be doing just fine in the big east, probably better than expected because he can bang as a PG.
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Here's more love for Junior:
REEBOK ALL-AMERICAN CAMP TOP PLAYERS
BY JEFF BORZELLO
When one thinks of high school summer basketball, the old ABCD and other All-American camps are usually the first thing that come to mind. College coaches from around the country, scouts from both coasts and die-hard hoops fans fill the bleachers and the area surrounding the courts – it’s the ultimate scene for the top high school players in the nation. With the July recruiting period starting a couple of weeks ago, the Reebok U All-American camp was a great place for many talented athletes to make their names become nationally known. Here’s one person’s ranking of the top-20 rising seniors at the camp, as well as the top-10 underclassmen.
2009 Prospects
1. Kenny Boynton: Unbelievable scorer made difficult shots all week, making him nearly impossible to guard when combined with his confidence and athleticism.
2. Abdul Gaddy: Terrific point guard does everything you could ask for in a leader. He is an outstanding passer and ball-handler who can score.
3. Renardo Sidney: The real Renardo Sidney decided to show up in Philadelphia. He was dominant on the interior, showing why he is considered a top-five recruit.
4. Mfon Udofia: The lefty has excellent vision and is a very good passer. He runs the pick-and-roll extremely well and can find people.
5. Avery Bradley: Gaddy’s partner both at home and in Philadelphia, Bradley was an outstanding performer on both sides of the ball.
6. Thomas Robinson: Robinson’s stock keeps rising. He is extremely athletic and can run the floor well for a big man. His well-rounded offensive game is growing.
7. Junior Cadougan: Stocky point guard looked outstanding alongside Sidney running the pick-and-roll. Doesn’t make mistakes and is a very good leader on the floor. Headed to Marquette
8. Karron Johnson: All-around player can do a variety of things on the court. He is very athletic and can finish around the rim with authority. Solid offensive game.
9. Kevin Parrom: One of the best all-around players at the camp, Parrom showed his wide variety of skills, from scoring inside and out to defending multiple positions.
10. Aaric Murray: A dominant performer at both ends of the floor, Murray is excellent around the rim and is solid on the glass. Difficult to defend inside.
Full story here:
http://bigeastbasketball.blogspot.com/2008/07/reebok-all-american-camp-top-players.html
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Yeah size is all he has. Has never made an outside shot, has never gotten by a defender, but he's still a top 100 recruit in the nation...I see why you're concerned.
I try to find him in Rivals top 150 and I don't see Cadougan listed----then I look at the Scout top 100 and he's not there either-----then i look further down the list and they have him as a 3 star. With all that hype he's been getting at these camps I would expect to see him in everyone's top 100. I think the Scout and Rivals people see the same thing I do here.
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You're right, Murff, rescind the scholarship...the kid obviously can't play at a Big East level. You must have been an absolute joy to work with as a coach.
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Some of the ratings may not be that high since he missed some of the season last year with the foot injury and I think he's been around so long that some people think he's a 5th year senior.
I'll be very surprised if he's not in everyone's top 100 when the ratings are tabulated at the end of the summer with the exception being Rivals who didn't have any representation at the Reebok Camp. HoopScoop and Hoopmasters will probably have Junior in their top 50 and among the top 5 point guards in the 2009 class and Buzz and his staff had him at the top of their list and they were listed with some of the top point guards in the country.
As far as not being able to perform in the Big East, forget about it. The current MU players had a very, very hard time stopping him in the camp drills as well as scrimmages and for those who have ever witnessed the MU pickup games in the summer, this isn't the matador defense stuff. They play to keep the court and I'm told Junior more than held his own.
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I try to find him in Rivals top 150 and I don't see Cadougan listed----then I look at the Scout top 100 and he's not there either-----then i look further down the list and they have him as a 3 star. With all that hype he's been getting at these camps I would expect to see him in everyone's top 100. I think the Scout and Rivals people see the same thing I do here.
What have you seen of him? A 30 second video of his TEAM on youtube? Wow, congratulations.
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ESPN currently has Junior ranked #79 best player in the country and Hoopscoop has Junior ranked #21 best player in the country.
However, since those agencies are not Scout or Yahoo , which have not updated their rankings since summer play, Eeyore, aka Murffieus, will not recognise the rankings....
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Scout just updated their rankings the other day and Cadougan dropped from #16 PG to #20-----and I believe Rivals has too recently.
By PG standards he's slow-----and doesn't shoot well is what I see. Also I don't see how he's going to finish in the BE in the land of the giants as he doesn't elevate well. Won't be able to beat out Acker.
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By PG standards he's slow-----and doesn't shoot well is what I see. Also I don't see how he's going to finish in the BE in the land of the giants as he doesn't elevate well. Won't be able to beat out Acker.
Where did you see that? You went up to Canada to watch a game of his? Oh, alright, then that might be worth something. Youtube videos? Wow
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Scout just updated their rankings the other day and Cadougan dropped from #16 PG to #20-----and I believe Rivals has too recently.
By PG standards he's slow-----and doesn't shoot well is what I see. Also I don't see how he's going to finish in the BE in the land of the giants as he doesn't elevate well. Won't be able to beat out Acker.
Out of the players Buzz was recruiting out of Scout's top 20 point guards, I count 7 players that MU had been linked with and out of those 7, Buzz and his staff favored Junior over 5 of those 7 and it could have been 6 out of 7 with Abdul Gaddy standing out, but MU might not had had a chance with Gaddy.
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Scout just updated their rankings the other day and Cadougan dropped from #16 PG to #20-----and I believe Rivals has too recently.
By PG standards he's slow-----and doesn't shoot well is what I see. Also I don't see how he's going to finish in the BE in the land of the giants as he doesn't elevate well. Won't be able to beat out Acker.
Actually, neither Yahoo nor Socut has been updated since the Reebok camp and it is not clear if the updated Yahoo ranking dated 7/1 included play assessments from the Bob Gibbons camp. Every single commentator who has watched Junior live as opposed to on 30 seconds of video has indicated that his stock has risen and WILL be reflected in a rise in national rankings as the summer progresses.
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again, thank god murf is NOT making the recruiting decisions for MU!!!!!!
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well, Junior certainly can't be as good as Nankovil, who is so great that Bo kept him nailed to the bench while Bucky was getting its butt kicked by Davidson in the tournament.
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Whatever happened to the "best" high school recruit that went to wisky a few years ago. Murf was salivating about this kid and I cannot even remember his name. I think he even had a murf hairdoo.
Sam Okey?
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Nankivil turned out to be Mr BB and the Gatorade POY in Wisconsin------you'll hear plenty of him in the seasons to come at UW!
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not if he's running that riduculously overrated Swing Offense you won't.
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Murf, when have you seen Junior play basketball?
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Murf, when have you seen Junior play basketball?
He hasn't...his response will state that he has seen some video clips, that Junior is only a three star and has dropped from 16 to the 20th pg in Rivals and is not ranked at the moment in Scout and will have a hard time against zones in the Big East based on 30 seconds of video watching.
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Nankivil turned out to be Mr BB and the Gatorade POY in Wisconsin------you'll hear plenty of him in the seasons to come at UW!
We'll see. So far in his collegiate career he's averaged 7 points. That's 7 points per season.
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He hasn't...his response will state that he has seen some video clips, that Junior is only a three star and has dropped from 16 to the 20th pg in Rivals and is not ranked at the moment in Scout and will have a hard time against zones in the Big East based on 30 seconds of video watching.
Yeah I know, that's what I'm hoping he says, so that I can laugh at him for saying he's seen him...in a 30 second clip.
So Murf, when have you seen Junior play?
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Yes 7 pts or .4pts per game.
I heard that he learned a lot about the game by watching Brian Butch from the Bench.
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The dude JG thought was better than Diener was Ben Jacobson ( I think that's what his name was) who played at Northern Iowa.
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No, Murf liked some kid at UWGB who actually wasnt that bad ~ Matt Rohde