Own a piece of "The 'Lanche"

[keefe]

Glow

No doubt Marquette today requires much more attention to school work than it did in my day, but from my observations (my oldest daughter graduated in 4 years and I make the trip from Chicago to most home games) the students still have plenty of fun.

One of the best cluster of 4 years in this old fighter pilot's life. Truly. Won an NCAA title. Met an outstanding woman who enriched my life in more ways than I can count. Made life long friendships. And was privileged to learn from some of the sharpest minds I have ever encountered. As I have bounced around the world Marquette has remained a special place.

[jsglow]

What I do know is that Marquette is tougher to get into than it was back in the 70s or even in the late 80s/early 90s when our university wasn't even filling the Frosh class.  (Anybody want to argue about the importance of basketball?  Of course Jeff Dahmer didn't help either.)

I know that the university keeps 6 year graduation rates as I believe that is the nationwide standard.  I also know that they take great pride in the fact that MU is well above the national average although I don't have the stats at my fingertips.  While I can't support it, I suspect that the 4 year rate is actually better than a generation ago.  The price of an extra semester is a pretty significant motivator.  For one thing, there are far more summer courses where kids fill in a few classes at a significant discount (roughly $750 per credit hour) to the 'regular school year' tuition.  My own daughter has done that to facilitate adding a minor to her Nursing major.

I have access to folks that certainly know and I'm sure will be happy to share with me as there's nothing controversial or privileged about what we're discussing.

And just to comment on a student's modern day experience.  I'd argue it is very similar to what we experienced a generation ago but with way less emphasis on the bars because of the legal drinking age.  There's youtube footage out there of the kids (including my daughter) going bonkers at Caffrey's (Ardmore back in the day) as Vander beat Davidson.  All good.  At the same time, Student Affairs has worked to 'tone down' over the top drinking problems that may have peaked 2-3 years ago.  Penalties are serious; ramifications severe.  I think we'd all agree that too much alcohol in the mix presents a real risk to students.  

[Dr. Blackheart]

Glow,

No doubt the students today are far more serious and for sure are much better students than those who preceded them, including their parents. Academic choices are also far more varied and personalized, which allows kids to be more interested.  

However, while I received a great base university education, there was much more I learned in places like the Lanche or Lenny's that live on today as life lessons. Those two joynts allowed the mixing of locals with students. The Gym didn't allow locals that I remember, nor did the Ardmore past a certain hour.

The patrons at the Lanche and Lenny's seemed to coexist.  However, eventually, both were easy targets for the criminal elements and that led to their demise, while the Ardmore and Gym live on in some blanched MU reincarnation.  

Today, many years have passed, and my best friends from MU and other alums I have met in business over the years, connect over Lanche stories...not on Bus Ad or Philosophy 101 stories. Why? Suburban, upper middle class white boys learned about life at their bar stools.

Today, and as is appropriate for responsible administrators, the MU Thought Police are cracking down on a coddled generation of suburban students. Students, btw, who are now adults, and we as parents are not even allowed to legally see their grades or health records as they are adults. So what do these students do now?  Go alcohol free?  Or do they move to the East Side en masse for their vices at god awful places like Victor's?

There is a balance to be struck, no matter how administrations over the years have tried to engineer it...which makes it ironic that the university even saved these items, are fundraising off them now, while shutting the Lanche down in a similar fashion as Crean left and how they sent a bulldozer to the Knights of Columbus mansion: In the middle of the night.

No thank you, please.

[Archies Bat]

Amen

[jsglow]

You raise very interesting points Dr. and I'm not sure I'm fully capturing your themes other than totally agreeing with you that my memories have very little to do with my personal classroom experience.  I agree with you on the Victor's matter and think that traveling to the lower East side puts kids at greater risk.  We'd be better off in my mind if Hegarty's had survived.  But the 'Lanche?  At some point urban renewal needs to take over.  Wells Street was getting tired when I was there decades ago.  And remember that much of that strip has been replaced by university upperclassman housing.  That has been a huge step in the right direction.  The latest gentrification is the scheduled demolition of Campus Foods.  I'm told that CVS is going to build and that'll add quality competition for Walgreen's.  All good and fully supported by the student body.  Subway will find a home and I'm told Sweeney's (a campus treasure) is heading to the first floor of Catholic Knights.  

One must recall that the legal drinking age when I was on campus was 18.  Moving that to 21 necessarily changed the face of the near campus experience.  And both Cafs and Murphs take seriously their responsibility to keep out underage drinkers.  I trust that their common ownership understands that their fate is in university hands to a certain extent.

Striking a reasonable balance regarding alcohol is a very delicate matter.  The fact that my son found ways to get beers into his Frosh dorm doesn't bother me in the least.  The fact that Public Safety has to haul kids off to the hospital to get there stomachs pumped bothers me a fair amount.  The fact that young co-eds may get sexually assaulted because too much alcohol enters the picture at some 'red cup' party bothers me a lot.  Balance, moderation, mutual respect, etc.  That's the answer and what the university tries to reinforce.

No doubt more than 50% of one's education occurs outside the classroom in a variety of forums ranging from community service to the halls of Schroeder to the courtyard parties at Renee Row.  It's all about growing up and making a few small misjudgments (within reasonable bounds) along the way.  

[keefe]

Glow,

No doubt the students today are far more serious and for sure are much better students than those who preceded them, including their parents. Academic choices are also far more varied and personalized, which allows kids to be more interested.  

However, while I received a great base university education, there was much more I learned in places like the Lanche or Lenny's that live on today as life lessons. Those two joynts allowed the mixing of locals with students. The Gym didn't allow locals that I remember, nor did the Ardmore past a certain hour.

The patrons at the Lanche and Lenny's seemed to coexist.  However, eventually, both were easy targets for the criminal elements and that led to their demise, while the Ardmore and Gym live on in some blanched MU reincarnation.  

Today, many years have passed, and my best friends from MU and other alums I have met in business over the years, connect over Lanche stories...not on Bus Ad or Philosophy 101 stories. Why? Suburban, upper middle class white boys learned about life at their bar stools.

Today, and as is appropriate for responsible administrators, the MU Thought Police are cracking down on a coddled generation of suburban students. Students, btw, who are now adults, and we as parents are not even allowed to legally see their grades or health records as they are adults. So what do these students do now?  Go alcohol free?  Or do they move to the East Side en masse for their vices at god awful places like Victor's?

There is a balance to be struck, no matter how administrations over the years have tried to engineer it...which makes it ironic that the university even saved these items, are fundraising off them now, while shutting the Lanche down in a similar fashion as Crean left and how they sent a bulldozer to the Knights of Columbus mansion: In the middle of the night. No thank you, please.

Man, I had forgotten all about that old mansion. Weren't people up in arms that Marquette wanted to tear it down?

I read a story in the Trib that the house was built as a wedding present but the bride was jilted and the wedding never hasppened. She visited the mansion once then never returned.

We used to roast pigs in that field between McCormick and the Plankinton Mansion.

[jsglow]

keefe,

Fr. Wild has personally told me that nothing caused more controversy and argument in the Jes Res in all his years at Marquette.  He declined to tell me which side of the debate he was on.  Of course by the time it was removed, the renovation costs would have been in the tens of millions.

Switching topics slightly.  I'm very pleased that Marquette is undertaking a careful renovation of the 'historic campus' consisting of the stretch between 11th and 13th on the south side of Wisconsin and that Gesu itself is undergoing renovation work.  Those 4 buildings are the iconic heart of campus.

Anyone here old enough to know what Marquette Hall was originally called?  (I know because my parents always referred to it using the 'old' name.)

[🏀]

Anyone here old enough to know what Marquette Hall was originally called?  (I know because my parents always referred to it using the 'old' name.)

I believe it was just the 'Science Buliding'

[jsglow]

I believe it was just the 'Science Buliding'

Winner, winner, chicken dinner.

[keefe]

keefe,

Fr. Wild has personally told me that nothing caused more controversy and argument in the Jes Res in all his years at Marquette.  

Until they came up with "Gold" that is?

Seriously, the Plankinton Mansion was an architectural gem. I found these photos at the Library of Congress, including views of the interior. I had never been inside the mansion. It is a fabulous example of Victorian Gingerbread.











While not the most practical building it certainly could have been a showpiece for the University in some fashion. I have lived in cultures where families can trace their lineage back 1,600 years and where cultural artifacts are cherished components of a collective memory. In America, we don't have such a broad and deep vista into our heritage. Moreover, the uniquely American obsession with progress tends to view antiquity with disdain while embracing modernity as an end in itself.

The preservationist in me feels loss that this building was not incorporated into the tapestry of the Marquette narrative. It was a sublime archetype of America's Guilded Age. The young nation had finally erased the congenital defect of slavery and in so doing shrugged off the last pretenses of innocence. America straddled a continent and was reaping the full bounty of industrialization. A robust, virile, wealthy nation was flexing its muscles and taking its preordained place on the world stage. And that zeitgeist was never better articulated than through the grandeur of the architecture of that day.

 

[GGGG]

But what do you do with something like that?  As someone who has lived in an historic neighborhood in the past, I understand the need for preservation.  But for a campus in need of space and a building that isn't very practical that you have to maintain, heat, etc., I am really struggling with what the campus could have done with it.

And my recollection is that MU did it in the middle of night because the City was going to block them from doing so the next day when they were in the midst of having conversations with the city about what to do with it.

I do remember when I was a senior and they were building AMU that they unearthed the foundation of that building in the process.  Until then I had no idea what once stood there.

[keefe]

But what do you do with something like that?  As someone who has lived in an historic neighborhood in the past, I understand the need for preservation.  But for a campus in need of space and a building that isn't very practical that you have to maintain, heat, etc., I am really struggling with what the campus could have done with it.

And my recollection is that MU did it in the middle of night because the City was going to block them from doing so the next day when they were in the midst of having conversations with the city about what to do with it.

I do remember when I was a senior and they were building AMU that they unearthed the foundation of that building in the process.  Until then I had no idea what once stood there.

There is no doubt that there would be a financial dimension to preservation. But if you go to many campuses, especially those in New England, the University President holds court in just that sort of building. There are stunning examples of Georgian and Federalist on the oldest campuses of America while the Midwest tends to have Greek Revival. Marquette is interesting in its adoption of Neo-Gothic in its oldest structures. The Late Victorian elegance of the Plankinton Mansion would have complemented that rather nicely.

I recall Marquette undertook demolition under the cover of darkness to preempt a number of efforts to halt it. It was controversial and the story was picked up by the national press. While I understand the practicality of Marquette's decision I shudder when I think of the Weir Buildings, Lalumiere, et al... by comparison.

[Waryours]

Sorry, Chili but if you have to ask then you'll never understand. Lenny and Sarah created more than a mere watering hole. Their haven was a crackling florescent bath that lapped at the ragged shore of a man's shattered existence. It was a place where heartache wasn't a stranger and the sting of cheap booze somehow only eased but never cured life's agony.

A heady mixture of sweat, cigarette smoke, body odor, and the stale perfume of the tart in leopard skin spandex whose ass was wrapped around her bar stool and her cherry red lips around the head of a PBR bottle. The denizens of the deep offered desultory companionship where a man could lose himself in those warm moist folds of flesh for the price of a roast chicken dinner.

It was a place Al would have been proud to drink at and probably did. Where dreams died and agony thrived through the gauzy fog of one last unfiltered Camel. For a few dollars a man could find sanctuary in a guileless world of doom and despair framed in flashing neon. Redemption, however fleeting, was bought for a song as shots of cheap rye cleansed the soul, purged the doubts, and stoked the embers of hope before being extinguished once more by the crashing waves of yet another desperate dawn. Of all the gin joints in Milwaukee this was the oasis, the shimmering chimera of shame in city that gives no quarter...

This needs to be published... Holy crap

[jsglow]

For those that don't know, the mansion stood probably 200 feet north of Wisconsin Ave. literally on the site now partially occupied by the AMU.  keefe's pictures are wonderful but it needs to be understood that by 1980 it had fallen into very serious disrepair.  There was great controversy surrounding the demolition and if memory serves MU did put several big swings of the wrecking ball into it one evening so as to put an end to the controversy.  Full demolition took place some weeks later.

I suspect location and its state of disrepair were major factors.  Do recall that Marquette's campus as a full fledged neighborhood up until the early 1970s.  A great many buildings were razed to create the setting one sees today.   

[real chili 83]

For those that don't know, the mansion stood probably 200 feet north of Wisconsin Ave. literally on the site now partially occupied by the AMU.  keefe's pictures are wonderful but it needs to be understood that by 1980 it had fallen into very serious disrepair.  There was great controversy surrounding the demolition and if memory serves MU did put several big swings of the wrecking ball into it one evening so as to put an end to the controversy.  Full demolition took place some weeks later.

I suspect location and its state of disrepair were major factors.  Do recall that Marquette's campus as a full fledged neighborhood up until the early 1970s.  A great many buildings were razed to create the setting one sees today.   

I remember that event.  Watched from 10th floor of Schroeder.  Am I recalling correctly the demolition was on a Saturday?

[Dr. Blackheart]

Glow,

Here is my point: Our country trusts 18 year olds to put a gun in their hand to fight for our freedom, but not to hold a beer.  We had those same issues back in the day with the same education awareness, why does a institution like Marquette think they will be successful with a Cone of Protection approach by buying all the student bars for urban renewal, fining and putting it on a student's permanent record for having alcohol paraphernalia in their dorm room?  Protecting little Johnny and Annie from making mistakes because we know better? All they did was move the problem down the road.  FAIL

It is the same approach with the Hey song.  "You better not say sucks again or else".  Guess what happened?  Young adults, looking to assert themselves and sick of the Thought Police, turn to the alumni and chat: "Hey, you suck".  FAIL

If you want to extend it to campus, it is the same approach.  Let's buy all the land and put up a zone of protection to keep the outside out.  Great vision, but the correct vision would be to actually have a urban incubation plan between MU, public and private enterprise to develop the campus as a hot site.  Selling condos to recent graduates, attracting new restaurants, and creating an enterprise fund for start up business incubation through University resources/talent.  See Howard University in DC, not Dayton or SLU. Campustown success isn't adding a Subway or a Bed, Bath and Beyond to surburbanize MU some more.  FAIL

MU's strongest brand is its city location. It spends most of its effort to keep the city out it seems, instead of embracing it.  As parents, we all want a safe environment for our kids, but we also need to allow for what lessons mistakes and other parts of life one must face as a young adult.  It is telling so many MU students choose to espape those safe environs for these other parts so different than the strip mall laden suburbs.  Heaven forbid!

[GGGG]

Dr. Blackheart....I don't disagree with a lot of what you are saying, but the reason MU did a lot of these things was to appeal more to parents.  Parents are by far the single more important influencer on where a child chooses to go to college.  I have no doubt that a lot of these changes they made positively influenced enrollment in the mid to late 90s.

[jsglow]

I'll add that MU actually embraces its neighborhood more than most universities.  But I get your point.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Dr. Blackheart....I don't disagree with a lot of what you are saying, but the reason MU did a lot of these things was to appeal more to parents.  Parents are by far the single more important influencer on where a child chooses to go to college.  I have no doubt that a lot of these changes they made positively influenced enrollment in the mid to late 90s.

Never said that the changes were bad.  The vision was good, but the execution has failed, despite some successes.  Yes, the campus is better. The Law School, the administration buildings, the medical campus, The Al.  But there is no incubation plan for the neighborhood.  Aurora-Sinai is maybe the one exception, but it is failing.  MU should have located the medical campus adjoining, for example.  All MU has done is created a safe zone.

[Dr. Blackheart]

For those that don't know, the mansion stood probably 200 feet north of Wisconsin Ave. literally on the site now partially occupied by the AMU.  keefe's pictures are wonderful but it needs to be understood that by 1980 it had fallen into very serious disrepair.  There was great controversy surrounding the demolition and if memory serves MU did put several big swings of the wrecking ball into it one evening so as to put an end to the controversy.  Full demolition took place some weeks later.

I suspect location and its state of disrepair were major factors.  Do recall that Marquette's campus as a full fledged neighborhood up until the early 1970s.  A great many buildings were razed to create the setting one sees today.   

It was torn down, not because of the disrepair, as it wasn't in disrepair but in need of restoration.  It was an eyesore as the KOC serviced area hard core drunks.  The building inside, whether for bingo, bowling, events was very serviceable, but MU wanted to put the student union there...which is actually not a great location as most union traffic is for staff and students during class hours as Brooks was in the academic campus today. The Jesuits sent a bulldozer in after the nightly news to knock down a corner of the building, as they got wind of some court action, IIRC.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/entertainment/143871786.html?ipad=y

As was pointed out, MU should have restored it to a President's House, Alumni House, or Conference Center. It was more attractive than the Pabst Mansion, IMO.  Another neighborhood restoration win is by a MU alum: The Ambassador.

[jsglow]

I'd like to point out the fact that the mansion was in reality a pale comparison to the structure shown in the various pictures by the Fall of 1980.  I'm open to differing viewpoints about its restoration but it is important not to be overly swayed by what are generally very attractive photos here in this thread.  Certainly restoration as the Presidential office would have been a very viable option.  But it must be admitted that the building required considerable restoration by the time the wrecking ball hit; not something that a little tuck pointing and coat of paint could reasonably cure.  And as I began this conversation, the merit of both strategies was cause for some heated exchanges among the Jesuits at the time.  Thanks for everyone's contribution.  I've enjoyed the discussion.

[keefe]

Dr. Blackheart....I don't disagree with a lot of what you are saying, but the reason MU did a lot of these things was to appeal more to parents.  Parents are by far the single more important influencer on where a child chooses to go to college.  I have no doubt that a lot of these changes they made positively influenced enrollment in the mid to late 90s.

Actually, Blackie, Skink is spot on. I do believe the changes were driven by feedback from concerned parents. 25 years ago when I was in Boston my wife volunteered to work a college fair for Marquette. When something cropped up she asked me to fill in.

I was paired with a Nursing College alum. It was amazing how almost every parent of a prospective student asked about Marquette's neighborhood. I recall telling the first parents to ask that the neighborhood wasn't that bad (hell, I used to drink at Lenny's and the Camel Club.) My female partner quickly jumped in and went through some thoughts that were materially different than mine. It made me realize that perspectives on Marquette's environment back then were largely framed by gender.

As a guy I thought nothing of walking alone at night north of Wells and west of 16th. But I can see how a coed would see those streets differently. We were in the Camel Club one night drinking Schlitz when an argument between locals was settled with a gun. At the time it was a topic for conversation but looking back we were likely at more risk than we realized.

[keefe]

For those that don't know, the mansion stood probably 200 feet north of Wisconsin Ave. literally on the site now partially occupied by the AMU.  keefe's pictures are wonderful but it needs to be understood that by 1980 it had fallen into very serious disrepair.  There was great controversy surrounding the demolition and if memory serves MU did put several big swings of the wrecking ball into it one evening so as to put an end to the controversy.  Full demolition took place some weeks later.

I suspect location and its state of disrepair were major factors.  Do recall that Marquette's campus as a full fledged neighborhood up until the early 1970s.  A great many buildings were razed to create the setting one sees today.   

Glow

Those photos were taken in the late '70's, just before the demolition. From what I read the mansion was structurally sound but needed a new roof. I couldn't find an actual dollar amount for renovation but that would vary widely by detail. I prefer a cleaner aesthetic in my personal living space but this building was an exceptional late Victorian statement. Pity Marquette could not have been more creative in working with the problem rather than eliminating it.   

[Dr. Blackheart]

In September 1978, Marquette University announced plans to expand their campus by demolishing the Plankinton Mansion -- despite the fact it was in near-mint condition, a recognized historic landmark, and the last of the Plankinton family mansions still standing. The mansion did not "fit the long-range plans of the university," and was limiting its growth. As part of the Marquette urban renewal project, the Milwaukee Redevelopment Authority had acquired the home in 1973 and suddenly activated its long-range plans to eliminate it. This stirred up an intense preservation controversy, unlike anything the city had ever seen before.

https://www.facebook.com/RestorationNews/posts/446788788693367

[keefe]

https://www.facebook.com/RestorationNews/posts/446788788693367

Blackie

Nice find. My recollection was that the mansion was both structurally sound and near pristine condition. The only repair work was for some wood rot and mold in the attic area. The Smithsonian photos I posted were taken in the late '70's as part of an archival project to document American fin de siecle. The only real blemish was that awful neon Knights of Columbus in front.