Hypocrisy of MU Basketball

[muguru]

The additional likelihood is that .. Wojo needs to reset his career clock:  How many years can you be a head coach at a major basketball program and have zero NCAA wins before no equivalent+ program should hire you? 


Flip it around, say "Zojo" was at Xavier for 6 years with no wins, would MU hire him or find a "hot" assistant?

Especially true when you have coached the schools, probably the BE's all time leading scorer and one of the best scorers to ever play CBB and have zero NCAA wins?? Who would hire a guy like that??

[Uncle Rico]

Zojo would likely be viewed as a top candidate by everyone but XUScoop.

XUscoop thinks they can get Chris Beard

[tower912]

But wouldn't have wanted pre Texas Tech Chris Beard.

[Uncle Rico]

But wouldn't have wanted pre Texas Tech Chris Beard.

Life’s great riddle

[Galway Eagle]

The additional likelihood is that .. Wojo needs to reset his career clock:  How many years can you be a head coach at a major basketball program and have zero NCAA wins before no equivalent+ program should hire you? 


Flip it around, say "Zojo" was at Xavier for 6 years with no wins, would MU hire him or find a "hot" assistant?

Oliver Purnell proved you don't need to win in the tournament

[WhiteTrash]

Zojo would likely be viewed as a top candidate by everyone but XUScoop.

I'm confused. Is the question would MU hire a coach from a program like XU with a resume like Wojo? If that's the question, I'd say almost no chance. Every coach in XU program in past 25+(?) years has had equal or more success than Wojo with less resources than MU has. I'd say MU would take a shot at a more proven coach or an up and coming coach or asst. (IMO).

(Again, my opinion. I don't dislike Wojo. Cool guy. Good to very good coach when you factor in recruiting. My answer could change in 3 months, but I'm going on this moment in time. Also, FYI, I did support his extension)

[WhiteTrash]

Oliver Purnell proved you don't need to win in the tournament

Don't give the anti-Wojo crowd any more ammo.

[rocky_warrior]

The additional likelihood is that .. Wojo needs to reset his career clock:  How many years can you be a head coach at a major basketball program and have zero NCAA wins before no equivalent+ program should hire you? 


Flip it around, say "Zojo" was at Xavier for 6 years with no wins, would MU hire him or find a "hot" assistant?

So...I'm trying to figure it out.  Wojo wins 1 NCAA game this year and all the bellyaching goes away?  Or is it 2?  or 3 wins?

Edited:  Get to an elite 8, and he's at the "heights" Buzz got us to, before he plummeted.  Does that buy him another 6 years (as it seems Buzz is still in good graces with many of the guys that hate Wojo...)

[Archies Bat]

So...I'm trying to figure it out.  Wojo wins 1 NCAA game this year and all the bellyaching goes away?  Or is it 2?  or 3 wins?

The bellyaching should go away, but I predict it wouldn't.

[Uncle Rico]

So...I'm trying to figure it out.  Wojo wins 1 NCAA game this year and all the bellyaching goes away?  Or is it 2?  or 3 wins?

Edited:  Get to an elite 8, and he's at the "heights" Buzz got us to, before he plummeted.  Does that buy him another 6 years (as it seems Buzz is still in good graces with many of the guys that hate Wojo...)

That’s a question I wondered.  If they were 11-seeds last year and won a tournament game, would that have been a more successful season?

[jonny09]

So...I'm trying to figure it out.  Wojo wins 1 NCAA game this year and all the bellyaching goes away?  Or is it 2?  or 3 wins?

Edited:  Get to an elite 8, and he's at the "heights" Buzz got us to, before he plummeted.  Does that buy him another 6 years (as it seems Buzz is still in good graces with many of the guys that hate Wojo...)

Let’s start with one. That is genuine progress.

[Silent Verbal]

So...I'm trying to figure it out.  Wojo wins 1 NCAA game this year and all the bellyaching goes away?  Or is it 2?  or 3 wins?

Edited:  Get to an elite 8, and he's at the "heights" Buzz got us to, before he plummeted.  Does that buy him another 6 years (as it seems Buzz is still in good graces with many of the guys that hate Wojo...)

Would 1 NCAA win make the bellyaching go away?  I’m not sure, but it’d be a nice start.

[jesmu84]

So...I'm trying to figure it out.  Wojo wins 1 NCAA game this year and all the bellyaching goes away?  Or is it 2?  or 3 wins?

Edited:  Get to an elite 8, and he's at the "heights" Buzz got us to, before he plummeted.  Does that buy him another 6 years (as it seems Buzz is still in good graces with many of the guys that hate Wojo...)

The better scenario to ask about - if wojo beat south Carolina, then got blown out in the second round. And everything happens after that exactly the same (Hauser's leave, etc), does it change any opinions?

No. It doesn't. People just don't like wojo. And will only tolerate him if he's successful because they have to

[Cheeks]

I'm confused. Is the question would MU hire a coach from a program like XU with a resume like Wojo? If that's the question, I'd say almost no chance. Every coach in XU program in past 25+(?) years has had equal or more success than Wojo with less resources than MU has. I'd say MU would take a shot at a more proven coach or an up and coming coach or asst. (IMO).

(Again, my opinion. I don't dislike Wojo. Cool guy. Good to very good coach when you factor in recruiting. My answer could change in 3 months, but I'm going on this moment in time. Also, FYI, I did support his extension)

Explain to me the less resources concept.

XU has an on campus arena...MU does not.  Huge huge huge advantage.

If you believe the numbers, MU spends $12M on hoops and Xavier over $8M.   XU doesn’t have to pay rent to Fiserv, XU also takes in revenue from other sources using the Cintas Center including parking, concessions, rent, sponsorships.

I don’t think the discrepancy is that big.

[Cheeks]

The better scenario to ask about - if wojo beat south Carolina, then got blown out in the second round. And everything happens after that exactly the same (Hauser's leave, etc), does it change any opinions?

No. It doesn't. People just don't like wojo. And will only tolerate him if he's successful because they have to

Some people don’t like him.

[Elonsmusk]

So...I'm trying to figure it out.  Wojo wins 1 NCAA game this year and all the bellyaching goes away?  Or is it 2?  or 3 wins?

Edited:  Get to an elite 8, and he's at the "heights" Buzz got us to, before he plummeted.  Does that buy him another 6 years (as it seems Buzz is still in good graces with many of the guys that hate Wojo...)

It’s not just that he hasn’t won in the NCAA, it’s the fashion in how we lost. It’s also the meltdown of last season coupled with the inability to manage roster last season (and I’d argue his very first year at MU was a trainwreck in roster management.)

I’d be happy if Wojo succeeds. I just don’t see a particularly high ceiling. I’ll be fully “sold” if he can take us to three Sweet 16s in next five years. That would be job well done from my perspective and certainly eliminate the frustration over individual game losses.

[Cheeks]

It’s not just that he hasn’t won in the NCAA, it’s the fashion in how we lost. It’s also the meltdown of last season coupled with the inability to manage roster last season (and I’d argue his very first year at MU was a trainwreck in roster management.)

I’d be happy if Wojo succeeds. I just don’t see a particularly high ceiling. I’ll be fully “sold” if he can take us to three Sweet 16s in next five years. That would be job well done from my perspective and certainly eliminate the frustration over individual game losses.

Except you were bitching about him prior to last year’s collapse or NCAA loss, so it is hard to take your first paragraph seriously at all.

You will be “fully sold” if he does something that only a handful of teams in the country have currently done...go to three Sweet 16’s five years.  Well ok then. 

[Eldon]

The better scenario to ask about - if wojo beat south Carolina, then got blown out in the second round. And everything happens after that exactly the same (Hauser's leave, etc), does it change any opinions?

No. It doesn't. People just don't like wojo. And will only tolerate him if he's successful because they have to

This is a really good thought experiment.  Kudos, lad.

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

Except you were bitching about him prior to last year’s collapse or NCAA loss, so it is hard to take your first paragraph seriously at all.

You will be “fully sold” if he does something that only a handful of teams in the country have currently done...go to three Sweet 16’s five years.  Well ok then. 

No, it's quite simple.  Wojo needs to exhibit a defensive system, execute a more cohesive offensive game, coach a fundamentally sound program, and do a much better job of developing players. Wojo's approach to the game is one that shows a lack of discipline/development, etc.  All of his teams lapse and had Villanova not been in a rebuild year, I suspect they would have come back and won.  MU certainly left the door open in the 2nd half.

What's the ceiling with this guy?  Maybe an NCAA tourney win if they shoot close to 50%?  That's not MU basketball.  That's A10 ball.  Wojo is a notch or two below the median of what MU has had for coaching in the past.  If the right coach is out there now......pull the trigger.  If it takes a year or two fine - but get the right guy.  The Monotone Whisperer just isn't a good coach all around.  #FundamentallyFlawed   

The sad part is all of you think his recruiting class will make waves.  If they match what's on paper you'll end up disappointed.  Wojo's lack of coaching ability/player development will surface, especially in close/clutch games. 

[Cheeks]

No, it's quite simple.  Wojo needs to exhibit a defensive system, execute a more cohesive offensive game, coach a fundamentally sound program, and do a much better job of developing players. Wojo's approach to the game is one that shows a lack of discipline/development, etc.  All of his teams lapse and had Villanova not been in a rebuild year, I suspect they would have come back and won.  MU certainly left the door open in the 2nd half.

What's the ceiling with this guy?  Maybe an NCAA tourney win if they shoot close to 50%?  That's not MU basketball.  That's A10 ball.  Wojo is a notch or two below the median of what MU has had for coaching in the past.  If the right coach is out there now......pull the trigger.  If it takes a year or two fine - but get the right guy.  The Monotone Whisperer just isn't a good coach all around.  #FundamentallyFlawed   

The sad part is all of you think his recruiting class will make waves.  If they match what's on paper you'll end up disappointed.  Wojo's lack of coaching ability/player development will surface, especially in close/clutch games.

So now the team that beat #1 Kansas a few weeks ago is merely "rebuilding".  OK

You have made some statements in the last 5 days that have been universally destroyed and proven factually to be wrong.  In other cases you have an opinion, that's fine...we all do. 

If you don't see the defensive improvement on this team the last few years, I don't know what to say to you.  All of his teams lapse?  False statement.

Developing players....I didn't realize Markus Howard came in as an All American as a freshman.  A guy like Sacar Anim was RAW when he started, now he is a dependable player for us.  Etc, etc.   Some guys develop a lot, some guys develop a little, some guys don't develop.  Sometimes that is on the coach, and sometimes players just don't have it in them or won't do the work.  I can pick players from Buzz, Crean, Al McGuire, etc, that didn't do much....and vice versa.  You make it sound this is just some software package that requires a new version upgrade.  Sorry, not how humans work.

You may be right on the recruits, or you might not.  Only time will tell.

[skianth16]

I’d be happy if Wojo succeeds. I just don’t see a particularly high ceiling. I’ll be fully “sold” if he can take us to three Sweet 16s in next five years. That would be job well done from my perspective and certainly eliminate the frustration over individual game losses.

That's an awfully high bar to set for almost any coach. I'd love to see regular S16 appearances happen in his tenure, but I could be convinced that he's the right guy for the job a little easier. Winning in March is a great step in the right direction. So is getting guys to the NBA. Heck, I'd just like to see fewer head-scratching transfers.

He showed last year that he's got a lot of the right pieces, but roster (read: ego) management was a big thorn in his side. He's improved the defensive scheming in a big way, but now this year's team struggles with some basic fundamentals like traveling too often. I think ironing out some of the little things could end up going a long way to providing more success on the court.

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

You sure tout #1 Kansas like some piece of mistletoe, hanging above you and wojo.  The fact being, you haven't accounted for college basketball as a whole right now, not having one dominant team.  That #1 moniker is meaningless.  The rankings should start at #10 and go from there when you compare it historically to other years.  There's more parity right now, this moment, than most years or ever for that matter.  College basketball is diluted talent-wise.

Lol, Defensive Movement - I mean if you consider a movement going from atrocious to average that's fine.  As I said before, MU doesn't play fundamentally sound defense.  There are many lapses.  Wojo has never installed a fundamental system - in 6 years.  He has some better players now - that's the difference.  But why no system?  No identity... nothing.  The methodology seems to be....take whatever you can get in recruiting (Star Wise) to appease the masses - then try and throw it together somehow.  Meanwhile, you have coaches out there that will get a 3 star rather than 4 star player, and 3 star fits the system better.  How does one even describe Wojo basketball-wise?  How do you sell him? 

As far as player development goes - Wojo hasn't improved anyone enough to send them to the NBA.  Not one in 6 years.  That's atrocious!  Another signature of an avg coach.    (Ellenson doesn't count because he would have been drafted if he was able to go out of high school.)  Plus, yes.... players improve because they get older, bigger, stronger, etc.  You don't see huge jumps from Wojo's players as you have in years past from other MU players.  There's not any NBA talent on this roster.  Typical MU program should have at around 1 potential NBA er on the team and a few quality Euro players on the squad at all times. 

You see the surface, but not what lies beneath.  The Monotone Whispers make you feel all funny and fuzzy inside.

[CTWarrior]

So...I'm trying to figure it out.  Wojo wins 1 NCAA game this year and all the bellyaching goes away?  Or is it 2?  or 3 wins?

Edited:  Get to an elite 8, and he's at the "heights" Buzz got us to, before he plummeted.  Does that buy him another 6 years (as it seems Buzz is still in good graces with many of the guys that hate Wojo...)

All I really want is my enthusiasm for MU basketball back.  My gut feeling is that we'll finish somewhere in the middle of the pack this year, get a middling seed for the tournament and maybe, but not likely, win 1 game when we get there.  And I figure we'll slide back a little next year.

Basically, I want reason to hope for runs at Big East championships and deep tournament runs.  I know I won't get them most years, but at least a reason to hope for them.  I don't know how to describe it, but last year's fade at the end and the subsequent departure of Sam Hauser took a big enthusiasm toll on me.  I don't want it to be that way, but it is.  I went along with the just OK results for the first four years because last year and this year were coming and they had lots of promise and through the road game at Providence we were right on it, but then collapse and Hausergate. 

So it is not a specific number of wins or specific accomplishments, but I want to feel like we have a good chance for a big season when January rolls around more often than not.

[tower912]

I am actually the exact opposite.   The Hauser departure made me appreciate that the rest of the eligible players stayed, that Symir reclassified that Jayce transferred in.    The fact that Wojo held together and compiled a roster with a chance to be as good as last year filled me with hope for Wojo as a coach.   Then he added an elite class with even more potential.

Honestly, Wojo's response to the departure may be his finest hour so far

And this team has a higher ceiling than last year because there is depth, athleticism, improved defense, and no agendas other than the team.

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

I am actually the exact opposite.   The Hauser departure made me appreciate that the rest of the eligible players stayed, that Symir reclassified that Jayce transferred in.    The fact that Wojo held together and compiled a roster with a chance to be as good as last year filled me with hope for Wojo as a coach.   Then he added an elite class with even more potential.

Honestly, Wojo's response to the departure may be his finest hour so far

And this team has a higher ceiling than last year because there is depth, athleticism, improved defense, and no agendas other than the team.

I find it interesting that Hauser could go onto Virginia and then be part of an elite defensive unit - even though he's not the quickest player.