Final Four consolation rooting

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

In the past 3 years, I’d have rather have been NC State this week. Would rather have been MU the other 2 years, 11 months, and 3 weeks.

Yep. I would have taken MU’s season last year and NC State’s this year. No doubt.

[IrwinFletcher]

Now that the excitement and anticipation of NC State’s run has ended with a convincing loss, I wonder if anyone who said last week that they would rather have had NC State’s season than Marquette’s would have second thoughts in that.

I think my perspective in this is affected significantly by being a season ticket holder.

If I’m going to spend the money, time, and emotional energy to attend 15 plus games a year, I want those games to be entertaining and competitive, and have some significance toward a higher goal, like an NCAA tournament run or a conference championship.

For the last 3 years I feel like I’ve gotten that (in varying degrees) even if the seasons have had a disappointing ending. I like being confident that the team is going to make the NCAA tournament well before Selection Sunday instead of being a bubble team all season or, even worse, knowing well before March that the only way to make the field is an unlikely conference tournament title.

I also prefer having a team with a mix of players who have either been in the program for a few years or have the possibility of being on the team for 2 or 3 years over one made up entirely of transfers who won’t be in the program for more than 1 or 2 years at most.

Being a Marquette season ticket holder the last 3 years has been a great sports entertainment value.
[/quote

Let me put a different spin on this.

Lets say that in 2020 or 2021, Wojo went on a run in NYC, won the conference tournament and went to the Final Four and got a contract extension?  Would you have been happy with that?

In essence, that is what happened with NC State.  Keats' record at NCST is 139-94 and 63-68 in the ACC.  Wojo was 128-95 and 59-68 in the BE.

With this magical run, per his contract, he automatically gets a contract extension of 2 years.  He is losing a lot of production to graduation and has a challenge ahead of him to rebuild.  Will he be able to do it?  If not, what will this program look like in a year or two?

And yes, making a Final 4 is remarkable and something every program strives for.  Maybe we all would make the deal with the devil and trade two more years of Wojo for a Final 4 run, but there are costs on the back end to consider.

[Uncle Rico]

Now that the excitement and anticipation of NC State’s run has ended with a convincing loss, I wonder if anyone who said last week that they would rather have had NC State’s season than Marquette’s would have second thoughts in that.

I think my perspective in this is affected significantly by being a season ticket holder.

If I’m going to spend the money, time, and emotional energy to attend 15 plus games a year, I want those games to be entertaining and competitive, and have some significance toward a higher goal, like an NCAA tournament run or a conference championship.

For the last 3 years I feel like I’ve gotten that (in varying degrees) even if the seasons have had a disappointing ending. I like being confident that the team is going to make the NCAA tournament well before Selection Sunday instead of being a bubble team all season or, even worse, knowing well before March that the only way to make the field is an unlikely conference tournament title.

I also prefer having a team with a mix of players who have either been in the program for a few years or have the possibility of being on the team for 2 or 3 years over one made up entirely of transfers who won’t be in the program for more than 1 or 2 years at most.

Being a Marquette season ticket holder the last 3 years has been a great sports entertainment value.
[/quote

Let me put a different spin on this.

Lets say that in 2020 or 2021, Wojo went on a run in NYC, won the conference tournament and went to the Final Four and got a contract extension?  Would you have been happy with that?

In essence, that is what happened with NC State.  Keats' record at NCST is 139-94 and 63-68 in the ACC.  Wojo was 128-95 and 59-68 in the BE.

With this magical run, per his contract, he automatically gets a contract extension of 2 years.  He is losing a lot of production to graduation and has a challenge ahead of him to rebuild.  Will he be able to do it?  If not, what will this program look like in a year or two?

And yes, making a Final 4 is remarkable and something every program strives for.  Maybe we all would make the deal with the devil and trade two more years of Wojo for a Final 4 run, but there are costs on the back end to consider.

Kevin Keatts has surpassed the John Brady and Richard Williams Memorial Final 4 Huh Coach

Aka, coaches fired shortly after making a Final 4

[wiscwarrior]

Why wouldn’t a transfer want to come here if our fans are going to label them “mercenaries?”

Good point. Poor choice of words. I was probably trying to distinguish between those players who have a long term commitment to a program and those who are at a school for only one season. Visions of A.J. Storrs must have danced through my head. 

[MUfan12]

There's a difference between filling a spot or two vs. turning over half of your roster.

[wisblue]

Yep. I would have taken MU’s season last year and NC State’s this year. No doubt.

Do you realize that that is not at all what the poster you’re quoting said?

Out of curiosity, how many Marquette games do you attend every year?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Do you realize that that is not at all what the poster you’re quoting said?

Out of curiosity, how many Marquette games do you attend every year?

I guess I didn’t understand completely.

1 or 2. Why does that matter?

[jutaw22mu]

It's only fitting that Purdue is playing for a natty on the same day as a major event involving the moon.  Destiny.

[tower912]

Go, UConn.

[wisblue]

I guess I didn’t understand completely.

1 or 2. Why does that matter?

As I said above, I think someone who attends virtually every home game is more likely to want those games to be entertaining and meaningful, and they aren’t as much fun when the team isn’t  even winning enough to meet the relatively low bar of earning an NCAA at large bid.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I would have taken Maquette's season over NC State's....right up to the point that NC State beat Duke to make the Final Four. I am generally a regular season is more relevant when judging a season kind of guy, but the line for me is Final Four. I'd take a DePaul regular season if it meant we blitz through the BET and on to the Final Four. I go to virtually every home game and a few road games a season.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

As I said above, I think someone who attends virtually every home game is more likely to want those games to be entertaining and meaningful, and they aren’t as much fun when the team isn’t  even winning enough to meet the relatively low bar of earning an NCAA at large bid.

NC State did not earn an at large bid. That’s part of the fun end to their season.

[wisblue]

NC State did not earn an at large bid. That’s part of the fun end to their season.

But my point is that a season that isn’t even good enough to earn an at large bid isn’t much fun to follow.

The way I look at it, the Marquette season was 4 1/2 months of an entertaining regular season and conference tournament, one more week of enjoyment in the NCAA tournament reaching the Sweet 16, and then a disappointing end.

NC State fans had three weeks of enjoyment with the conference tournament run, reaching the Sweet 16, then reaching the Final Four, and then a disappointing end.

I’ll take the four plus months of fun before the letdown over 3 weeks before the letdown. Especially when your team is going to have a major rebuild the next year.

But, I understand that some (if not most) fans, including you, have different priorities.
 

[wisblue]

I would have taken Maquette's season over NC State's....right up to the point that NC State beat Duke to make the Final Four. I am generally a regular season is more relevant when judging a season kind of guy, but the line for me is Final Four. I'd take a DePaul regular season if it meant we blitz through the BET and on to the Final Four. I go to virtually every home game and a few road games a season.

That clearly defines the difference in opinions and priorities.

I would draw the line at winning the title.

The line would be different for me if the regular season was one in which making the NCAA tournament with an at large bid was always likely or at least a realistic possibility. Bubble seasons can be fun. DePaul seasons are never fun.

[tower912]

I enjoy MU wins.   I accept MU losses.  56-17 is a nice two year run.   I have difficulty thinking of a sweet 16 run as a disappointment. 

[Shooter McGavin]

But my point is that a season that isn’t even good enough to earn an at large bid isn’t much fun to follow.

The way I look at it, the Marquette season was 4 1/2 months of an entertaining regular season and conference tournament, one more week of enjoyment in the NCAA tournament reaching the Sweet 16, and then a disappointing end.

NC State fans had three weeks of enjoyment with the conference tournament run, reaching the Sweet 16, then reaching the Final Four, and then a disappointing end.

I’ll take the four plus months of fun before the letdown over 3 weeks before the letdown. Especially when your team is going to have a major rebuild the next year.

But, I understand that some (if not most) fans, including you, have different priorities.

Your point is well taken.  I am in your camp because it is also the way to build sustained success and get more bites at the apple.  Shaka having a regular season Big East winning record is important.  Big East tournament success is important.  Ultimately this will lead to better recruiting and final fours.  Which ultimately is way more entertaining than a flash in the pan final four run.

[MU82]

I agree about UConn not having weak spots, but I'd bet the difference in UConn's metrics this season with and without Clingan on the court is pretty telling. (Maybe Scoopers who know how to get such stats will chime in.)

Actually just read this amazing stat in The Athletic:

Per CBB Analytics; the Huskies score 20.1 more points per 100 possessions with Clingan on the floor … while also allowing 15.3 fewer points per 100 possessions.

If Eady can't get Clingan in foul trouble, Purdue is in trouble.

[Uncle Rico]

Actually just read this amazing stat in The Athletic:

Per CBB Analytics; the Huskies score 20.1 more points per 100 possessions with Clingan on the floor … while also allowing 15.3 fewer points per 100 possessions.

If Eady can't get Clingan in foul trouble, Purdue is in trouble.

Clingan will have 2 by the first TV timeout.  Edey won’t have 2 all game

[tower912]

Neither semifinal game was called that way. A trend I would like to see continue.

[jesmu84]

Clingan will have 2 by the first TV timeout.  Edey won’t have 2 all game

Of course, that'll have nothing to do with the players' actions. Reffing Edey has always been interesting

[Nutty]

When you are told by many B10 fans that Marquette plays in a “mid major” conference, you don’t mind when they lose every championship game.

I don't know.  Sounds like they live rent-free in your head, then.  And, not minding when they lose every championship game is much different than being ecstatic about it.  They're not MU's rivals, save for 1 of them.  Purdue winning tonight should be decidedly 'meh'.  Or, frankly, a great outcome compared to a rival winning. 

[tower912]

Edey vs Clingan.  Best big man match up in the finals since Ewing vs Olajuwon?

[RJax55]

Edey vs Clingan.  Best big man match up in the finals since Ewing vs Olajuwon?

Noah vs. Oden

[tower912]

Fair

[Pakuni]

Edey vs Clingan.  Best big man match up in the finals since Ewing vs Olajuwon?

Others to consider:

Eric Montross vs Juwan Howard (1993)
Danny Manning vs Stacy King (1988)