MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: tower912 on May 16, 2023, 11:39:19 AM
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I watch the playoffs and try to picture how MU players would fit. Offensive sets, defensive, rotations. Who can they guard? What would their role be in pick and roll offense?
So, Oso, if he develops 3 pt range.
Gold. I can project his size and skill set onto an NBA team.
I am not as high on the guards. Kolek, Stevie, and Kam lack top end quickness.
Chase, perhaps, but when will he get to showcase? Sean is too small.
Jop? What does he do better than Sam?
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Gold by a very margin, IMO. Aside from his skillsets, I think he has an edge to him that will suit him well moving forward.
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Kolek or Chase. Obviously if Oso can develop a jumper it's him, but I don't trust that to happen.
I think the real answer will be "a class of 2025 recruit." To win a national title you usually need a Burger Boy and surefire NBA level talent. Obviously Shaka gets an A+ so far. If we want to be a true national championship team, the talent level needs to jump.
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I agree that on the current roster, Oso and Gold look like the most likely players to have the requisite skillsets.
On the current roster, I would also include Chase and Tyler. Chase has that big breakout potential, and Kolek is just such a smart, savvy player. I don't think he'll ever be a star, but I could see him getting in on basketball IQ and having enough size, shooting, and passing to stick on a roster.
Very interested to see Norman. What he did in EYBL compares favorably to NBA lottery picks.
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I agree that on the current roster, Oso and Gold look like the most likely players to have the requisite skillsets.
On the current roster, I would also include Chase and Tyler. Chase has that big breakout potential, and Kolek is just such a smart, savvy player. I don't think he'll ever be a star, but I could see him getting in on basketball IQ and having enough size, shooting, and passing to stick on a roster.
Very interested to see Norman. What he did in EYBL compares favorably to NBA lottery picks.
Kam for me.
Such a unique scorer with solid size.
I struggle to find a comp for him because he scores better than everyone he's on the court with and scores in so many ways, but he doesn't play above the rim. Unique, unique talent with so much room for growth.
Defense has come a long way too.
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I'm not sure Oso will even attempt a 3-pointer next season. As for Gold, he has promise, but this year will be much more telling on his chance for the pros. I'm not swayed in either direction in terms of my belief in his future quite yet.
I think Kam and Oso have a shot. But a dark horse is Kolek. Not much chatter about him. He's the kind of guy that could work his way on to a roster with his work ethic alone. Keep shooting well, improving on his strengths as a ball handler and passer and there's a chance.
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Kam for me.
Such a unique scorer with solid size.
I struggle to find a comp for him because he scores better than everyone he's on the court with and scores in so many ways, but he doesn't play above the rim. Unique, unique talent with so much room for growth.
Defense has come a long way too.
I'd love to see him get there, but not sure he has the length, athleticism, or quickness to make it to the next level. I think he's a great 4-year college player. May he prove me wrong.
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That is where I am with all of our guards. Watching the playoffs. Watching G-league games in person. Seeing how fine the margin is at the guard position. I think a modern NBA prospect has to be minimum 6'4, be athletic like OMax is athletic among forwards, have range and a quick release. I think all of our guards are really good 4 year (or more in TKo's case) college guards. And I love them all. Now, after a little seasoning in the G-league, could I see Kam, Tyler or Stevie on an NBA bench? Yes.
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If Kolek can show he can knock down NBA 3-pointers at an upper-30% clip, he's my choice. He's a decent enough athlete, a brilliant passer, a team-first guy, he's tough, etc.
I mean, T.J. McConnell (6-1, 190) has played in the NBA for 8 years, averaging 22 mpg over 556 games, with 92 starts. His career 3-point percentage is .343.
Someone like Gold or Ross could end up being a higher ceiling guy, absolutely, but it's difficult for me to project that today.
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1. Oso
Switchable defender, solid handle and passing, fast rim runner in pick and roll & transition. Needs to get stronger and really rebound. Potential small ball 5. Shooting would be a huge bonus and open up starting potential at PF.
2. Gold
Great combo of size and skill. Underrated athlete. Needs to make a major leap in all phases, especially rebounding. If (emphasis on IF) everything goes right he could be a Kelly Olynyk type stretch 4/5.
3. Kolek
NBA level passer, decent size for a PG, underrated defender, solid shooter. Maybe a backup PG type.
Probably all UDFA but legit prospects that could earn a two-way contract. Kam doesn't quite have the physical profile and his skillset is more like a high level player in Europe. Chase Ross is still pretty raw. At 6-4, his skill level needs to be much higher to be an NBA prospect.
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1. Oso
Switchable defender, solid handle and passing, fast rim runner in pick and roll & transition. Needs to get stronger and really rebound. Potential small ball 5. Shooting would be a huge bonus and open up starting potential at PF.
2. Gold
Great combo of size and skill. Underrated athlete. Needs to make a major leap in all phases, especially rebounding. If (emphasis on IF) everything goes right he could be a Kelly Olynyk type stretch 4/5.
3. Kolek
NBA level passer, decent size for a PG, underrated defender, solid shooter. Maybe a backup PG type.
Probably all UDFA but legit prospects that could earn a two-way contract. Kam doesn't quite have the physical profile and his skillset is more like a high level player in Europe. Chase Ross is still pretty raw. At 6-4, his skill level needs to be much higher to be an NBA prospect.
O-Max is at #7 in 3 point shooting drill in Combine.
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O-Max is at #7 in 3 point shooting drill in Combine.
I suspect O-Max stays in the draft, so I didn't include him. Only evaluating next year's roster. He's definitely a better prospect than these guys.
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I want to see what happens with Chase next year. If he is a little more consistent from deep, I could easily see him making the league.
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I hate to be the naysayer, but, other than Ben Gold, I am not sure there is a future NBA player on the roster. And, Ben has a lot of improving to do, but he does have a legitimate chance. Players in the NBA are largely physical outliers with unbelievable strength, quickness, etc in addition to the basic bb skills. Besides Ben, I simply do not see an MU player who could carve out a space for himself on an NBA team. The team is full of really good college players, but, they may all be destined to play in Europe - which is certainly not a failure.
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I hate to be the naysayer, but, other than Ben Gold, I am not sure there is a future NBA player on the roster. And, Ben has a lot of improving to do, but he does have a legitimate chance. Players in the NBA are largely physical outliers with unbelievable strength, quickness, etc in addition to the basic bb skills. Besides Ben, I simply do not see an MU player who could carve out a space for himself on an NBA team. The team is full of really good college players, but, they may all be destined to play in Europe - which is certainly not a failure.
Curious: What was your opinion of Prosper’s NBA chances a year ago?
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I'd put Chase and Gold as the two current players with the most NBA upside. They have the tools and builds to be successful in the association.
Oso is in the conversation but I think he needs to develop a three point shot in order to make it. Do that and he joins Chase and Gold.
Kolek is too savvy of a player not to get a shot somewhere. He's not quick enough to be a star in the NBA but I could see him having a Diener like career.
Norman sounds really exciting but will need to see him play in college before projecting him to the Assocation.
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I'd put Chase and Gold as the two current players with the most NBA upside. They have the tools and builds to be successful in the association.
Oso is in the conversation but I think he needs to develop a three point shot in order to make it. Do that and he joins Chase and Gold.
Kolek is too savvy of a player not to get a shot somewhere. He's not quick enough to be a star in the NBA but I could see him having a Diener like career.
Norman sounds really exciting but will need to see him play in college before projecting him to the Assocation.
I get the Chase hype, I do...but if you have him there, you gotta have Kam there too.
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I get the Chase hype, I do...but if you have him there, you gotta have Kam there too.
I really don't. Chase is a better defender and athlete than Kam. I think those are two key aspects of draftability
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I really don't. Chase is a better defender and athlete than Kam. I think those are two key aspects of draftability
Kam is longer and a significantly better scorer.
Each guy has strengths over the other for sure, but Kam is a pro scorer.
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It's Oso, it is not close.
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I’m bullish on Oso, Gold, and maybe Chase (in the longer term), but I think anyone but Kolek as the top prospect is overthinking it. I get the limitations around agility and athleticism, but his passing and vision are already NBA PG-level elite. If he can knock down 37%+ from 3 PT with consistency, he’ll be in the league for a long time.
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Kam is longer and a significantly better scorer.
Each guy has strengths over the other for sure, but Kam is a pro scorer.
Kam is not longer. He is a significantly better scorer now. I can see Chase closing the gap on Kam's offense, I don't see Kam doing it for athleticism or defense. There's a reason that there aren't many below the rim non-point guards in the NBA.
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Kam is longer and a significantly better scorer.
Each guy has strengths over the other for sure, but Kam is a pro scorer.
Kam is not a pro scorer. Kam doesn't have the athleticism, and a lot of the moves he makes in college would go nowhere in the NBA. He may improve over time, but I don't see it yet.
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After watching where Juan Anderson started as a college freshman and where he is now, and after watching Jamal Cain sitting on the Heat bench during the Bucks' series, albeit in street clothes, I would never say never about any of this stuff. Not ripping these guys------those are compliments. Just sayin'.
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Kam is not a pro scorer. Kam doesn't have the athleticism, and a lot of the moves he makes in college would go nowhere in the NBA. He may improve over time, but I don't see it yet.
You can subtract just about all of the scoop layups from Kam against NBA defenses.
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I think its Ben. I think Shaka and staff will get the most out of Ben this off season and upcoming season. A near 7’ stretch who can hit the open 3 as well as drive the hoop and finish in traffic will be desired by the next level.
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I think its Ben. I think Shaka and staff will get the most out of Ben this off season and upcoming season. A near 7’ stretch who can hit the open 3 as well as drive the hoop and finish in traffic will be desired by the next level.
I agree. And his defense wasn’t too shabby last year either
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I agree. And his defense wasn’t too shabby last year either
It's Kam Jones....hands down.
Easily.
With that jumper and size. Look out.
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It's Kam Jones....hands down.
Easily.
With that jumper and size. Look out.
He’s 6’4”. Not really big from an NBA perspective.
And he shot 36% from three last year - 82nd in the country. That’s good. But not stellar.
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And he shot 36% from three last year - 82nd in the country. That’s good. But not stellar.
I love Kam, but you're giving him too much credit.
He was #82 FOR THOSE WHO QUALIFIED FOR THE 3FG% INDIVIDUAL HONOR. You have to make a ton of triples to qualify. There were only 98 who did this past year. So, he was ranked #82 out of 98. Good?
If you use a different cut.. for example.. all players who made at least 60 3FG during the season.. or ~2 per game on average... there were 298 players. Kam ranks #197 in that group of 298.
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Watching the first quarter of the first game in the Boston/Philadelphia series made me think Kolek could play for Boston, because of the way they were driving and kicking the ball out to shooters.
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I love Kam, but you're giving him too much credit.
He was #82 FOR THOSE WHO QUALIFIED FOR THE 3FG% INDIVIDUAL HONOR. You have to make a ton of triples to qualify. There were only 98 who did this past year. So, he was ranked #82 out of 98. Good?
If you use a different cut.. for example.. all players who made at least 60 3FG during the season.. or ~2 per game on average... there were 298 players. Kam ranks #197 in that group of 298.
Thank you for the clarification - I certainly did give him more credit than he deserves even though I was disputing the point he has a good jumper.
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Watching the first quarter of the first game in the Boston/Philadelphia series made me think Kolek could play for Boston, because of the way they were driving and kicking the ball out to shooters.
Tyler's top end comp is Jalen Brunson. Now it could take some work to get there because Brunson took awhile to his his stride, but I think TK has a brighter future than some believe.
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Tyler's top end comp is Jalen Brunson. Now it could take some work to get there because Brunson took awhile to his his stride, but I think TK has a brighter future than some believe.
Where have I heard that before?
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Gold is the next NBA guy. Guy is a dynamic athlete and has shown the touch from 3. Plus you can’t teach 7 ft tall.
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Agree on Gold. He obviously has some things to iron out but he made some plays last year that really stood out. Reminded me a bit of O-Max in year one where you could see the potential but he just was starting to put it together.
Expect a big jump from him each of the next two years.
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Whoever it is, there will be numerous Scoopers saying that he won't leave for the NBA because "he's not ready."
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Whoever it is, there will be numerous Scoopers saying that he won't leave for the NBA because "he's not ready."
Exactly. Or that he will test the NBA draft waters but undoubtedly return to MU.
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I will never again say a guy cannot make the NBA after watching Juan Anderson and Jamal Cain make it. That said, of the returning guys under 6-5 I don't think any of them ending playing in the NBA for any length of time. Again, I would never bet against anyone and hope a number of guys make it. I am sticking with Gold and think it could be a year from now.
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Exactly. Or that he will test the NBA draft waters but undoubtedly return to MU.
We are a pretty pessimistic lot. I don't think I've ever seen someone post a player testing the waters "will undoubtedly return to MU"
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Several posters said they expect OMax to get valuable info from the nba and return to MU next season.
Same was said of JLew.
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Several posters said they expect OMax to get valuable info from the nba and return to MU next season.
Same was said of JLew.
Expecting and undoubtedly returning are two very different things
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Were you a scooper expecting OMax to return ?
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Were you a scooper expecting OMax to return ?
No. I was close to 50/50 until he got an NBA combine invite.
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After watching where Juan Anderson started as a college freshman and where he is now, and after watching Jamal Cain sitting on the Heat bench during the Bucks' series, albeit in street clothes, I would never say never about any of this stuff. Not ripping these guys------those are compliments. Just sayin'.
The two guys you named were athletic freaks when they walked in the door at MU.
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Watching the first quarter of the first game in the Boston/Philadelphia series made me think Kolek could play for Boston, because of the way they were driving and kicking the ball out to shooters.
But the issue is that the guy who is driving has to be a legitimate threat to score at the hoop in the NBA.
Tyler is crafty for the college level, but I wouldn't expect him to drive the lane in the NBA with much success.
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Were you a scooper expecting OMax to return ?
Before he declared and just after he did, I thought he would likely be back. Every indication since has moved it further and further from that likelihood, and now I don't expect him back.
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But the issue is that the guy who is driving has to be a legitimate threat to score at the hoop in the NBA.
Tyler is crafty for the college level, but I wouldn't expect him to drive the lane in the NBA with much success.
Sam Hauser has a place in the NBA, so you do not have to be a super athlete.
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Biggest knock on Kolek is his age. He will be 23y after next season. That is great for MU next season, but not so great on being drafted.
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Sam Hauser has a place in the NBA, so you do not have to be a super athlete.
Obviously. But that isn't what you said. You said drive and kick. Kolek won't be able to pull that off in the NBA the way he is able to in college.
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Biggest knock on Kolek is his age. He will be 23y after next season. That is great for MU next season, but not so great on being drafted.
But the higher age would make a player more enticed, to pursue money sooner. Which may or maynot be good for MU next season.
Who knows, I am just going to operate under the assumption that this is his last season for us no matter what. Same with Oso.
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But the higher age would make a player more enticed, to pursue money sooner. Which may or maynot be good for MU next season.
Who knows, I am just going to operate under the assumption that this is his last season for us no matter what. Same with Oso.
Agree…I personally would add Ben to that list as well.
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Biggest knock on Kolek is his age. He will be 23y after next season. That is great for MU next season, but not so great on being drafted.
I think if Tyler can develop his non dominant hand it will greatly increase the chance he will find a home in the NBA.
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I think if Tyler can develop his non dominant hand it will greatly increase the chance he will find a home in the NBA.
Agree. He did get better with the right last season but still has much room for improvement in that department. Given how much better he got between 2021-22 and 2022-23, I would be surprised if he didn't get a lot better at going right this coming season.
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Late last season, I heard one former coach (don't remember which one but it was an accomplished guy) say that to seriously contend for a national championship in this day and age, you need two starters who are definite future solid NBA players and one who is a future NBA role player. Not sure he is really correct about that, especially given the success of FAU this past season, but it is interesting to consider. And, I think he was really just trying to emphasize how good a player pool you have to have to be a serious contender.
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Late last season, I heard one former coach (don't remember which one but it was an accomplished guy) say that to seriously contend for a national championship in this day and age, you need two starters who are definite future solid NBA players and one who is a future NBA role player. Not sure he is really correct about that, especially given the success of FAU this past season, but it is interesting to consider. And, I think he was really just trying to emphasize how good a player pool you have to have to be a serious contender.
I mean it helps no doubt...but I don't think this is entirely accurate. The 2020 Baylor Bears have one player who is in the NBA - Davion Mitchell. The rest are either in college and not considered prospects, or are toiling away in the G-League or overseas.