Do you think Derik Chauvin was over charged?

[jficke13]

Sorry, did not mean it to sound like a correction. I did not see the charging document before posting, so I was solely posting my opinion based on the statutory language what I had read about third-degree murder on the blog. Anyhow, I still think their best bet would be under subdivision 1 because it does not require proving two separate felonies.

As I mentioned earlier, I am not a criminal attorney (pretty much slept through Criminal Law in law school) so take that opinion for the $0.02 it’s worth.

No problem. I'm not a criminal atty either and have really only plugged into this one superficially. I literally wasn't sure if there was another amendment to the charging doc that I was missing. I would say my ability to give any deeper professional analysis here is fast coming to an end.

[dgies9156]

What will be interesting will be Mr. Chauvin's legal defense.

If he ends up with a high-powered legal team that makes the effort OJ's legal team did, then the problem becomes "what happens when?" Keep in mind that he only must make one juror uncertain and the whole case goes away.

The question will be who takes on the case, does Mr. Chauvin have that kind of resource available to him and whether his defense team is willing to do a scorched earth policy to win acquittal?

[GooooMarquette]

What will be interesting will be Mr. Chauvin's legal defense.

If he ends up with a high-powered legal team that makes the effort OJ's legal team did, then the problem becomes "what happens when?" Keep in mind that he only must make one juror uncertain and the whole case goes away.

The question will be who takes on the case, does Mr. Chauvin have that kind of resource available to him and whether his defense team is willing to do a scorched earth policy to win acquittal?

Given the extremely high-profile nature of this case, it is possible Chauvin may get better representation then he could otherwise afford. An acquittal in this case could build the reputation of an experienced defense attorney, or make a career for a promising up-and-coming one.

[muwarrior69]

What will be interesting will be Mr. Chauvin's legal defense.

If he ends up with a high-powered legal team that makes the effort OJ's legal team did, then the problem becomes "what happens when?" Keep in mind that he only must make one juror uncertain and the whole case goes away.

The question will be who takes on the case, does Mr. Chauvin have that kind of resource available to him and whether his defense team is willing to do a scorched earth policy to win acquittal?

The first thing any competent defense attorney will do is ask for a change in venue.

[Pakuni]

The first thing any competent defense attorney will do is ask for a change in venue.

They'll definitely ask, but it'll be an uphill battle. There's nowhere in the state that a defense lawyer will be able to point to and argue that it hasn't seen vast amounts of pre-trial publicity. And the court is going to be excessively careful about finding a jury pool that reflects the community where the alleged crime occurred.

[GooooMarquette]

They'll definitely ask, but it'll be an uphill battle. There's nowhere in the state that a defense lawyer will be able to point to and argue that it hasn't seen vast amounts of pre-trial publicity. And the court is going to be excessively careful about finding a jury pool that reflects the community where the alleged crime occurred.

Yep. The only places in MN that come close to reflecting the diversity of the Twin Cities are Rochester and Duluth, and both areas are very aware of what happened. I would also note that both areas are generally quite supportive of the Black Lives Matter movement, so there probably wouldn't be any "political/ideological" benefit to moving.

The rest of MN doesn't even come remotely close to the TC demographic.

[muwarrior69]

Yep. The only places in MN that come close to reflecting the diversity of the Twin Cities are Rochester and Duluth, and both areas are very aware of what happened. I would also note that both areas are generally quite supportive of the Black Lives Matter movement, so there probably wouldn't be any "political/ideological" benefit to moving.

The rest of MN doesn't even come remotely close to the TC demographic.

So how would he get a fair trial in a community that supports the political ideological Black Lives Matter movement.

[jficke13]

So how would he get a fair trial in a community that supports the political ideological Black Lives Matter movement.

My guess is that his post-conviction appeal will be specifically framed around this issue.

Honestly, I'm so happy I don't have to impanel that jury. "Are you aware of the circumstances surrounding this case?" "Yes" "Have you seen any video of the incident?" "Yes" "Dismissed." Repeat, ad infinitum. There probably aren't 12 people over the age of 18 in the entire dang country who haven't already made their minds up about this case.

[jesmu84]

So how would he get a fair trial in a community that supports the political ideological Black Lives Matter movement.

BLM is a political movement?

[Pakuni]

My guess is that his post-conviction appeal will be specifically framed around this issue.

Honestly, I'm so happy I don't have to impanel that jury. "Are you aware of the circumstances surrounding this case?" "Yes" "Have you seen any video of the incident?" "Yes" "Dismissed." Repeat, ad infinitum. There probably aren't 12 people over the age of 18 in the entire dang country who haven't already made their minds up about this case.

Being aware of the case or even seeing the video are not automatic disqualifiers, nor should they be.
I imagine the judge will give each side far more peremptory challenges than a typical murder case, but there has to be a limit. Not every juror who's seen the video is getting struck.

[Hards Alumni]

BLM is a political movement?

It is to this guy.  He's awful old and simple, better to just let him be.

[muwarrior69]

BLM is a political movement?

This MSNBC article acknowledges as much.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/black-lives-matter-obama-marshall-project

[muwarrior69]

It is to this guy.  He's awful old and simple, better to just let him be.

I thought one of the goals of Black Lives Matter is to have respect for one another. Just so you know I want Chauvin locked up as bad as anyone else. I want the jury to decide his guilt based on the evidence not their politics. Just because we disagree does not mean we have to hurl insults at one another.

[jficke13]

Being aware of the case or even seeing the video are not automatic disqualifiers, nor should they be.
I imagine the judge will give each side far more peremptory challenges than a typical murder case, but there has to be a limit. Not every juror who's seen the video is getting struck.

Even still, I don't envy the task of finding 12 who haven't made up their minds about what they've seen. I have, and I don't know a single person who has seen it who hasn't.

[Hards Alumni]

I thought one of the goals of Black Lives Matter is to have respect for one another. Just so you know I want Chauvin locked up as bad as anyone else. I want the jury to decide his guilt based on the evidence not their politics. Just because we disagree does not mean we have to hurl insults at one another.

You're putting your prepositions about BLM without doing a cursory search about the idea.

You won't even learn anything about a topic before espousing wrong beliefs about it.  You don't see something wrong with that?

[tower912]

the political ideological Black Lives Matter movement.

The one the pope supports?

[GooooMarquette]

Even still, I don't envy the task of finding 12 who haven't made up their minds about what they've seen. I have, and I don't know a single person who has seen it who hasn't.

Agree. If there are any people who haven’t made up their minds, they are probably living off the grid and not registered to vote. The likely juror pool has decided one way or another.

[Jockey]

The one the pope supports?

I don't think that argument will work with him. Many see the Pope as a radical leftist.

[dgies9156]

Yep. The only places in MN that come close to reflecting the diversity of the Twin Cities are Rochester and Duluth, and both areas are very aware of what happened. I would also note that both areas are generally quite supportive of the Black Lives Matter movement, so there probably wouldn't be any "political/ideological" benefit to moving.

The rest of MN doesn't even come remotely close to the TC demographic.

It's probably less about diversity and more about finding a jury that has at least some ignorance/open mindedness to the problem. That's going to be really hard.

Maybe in Redwood Falls, International Falls (which I know is in St.Louis County) or Grand Marais. I would agree though that if it were out of the Twin Cities, the case would either be held in Rochester or Duluth.

[muwarrior69]

There may have been personal animus between the two.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/george-floyd-derek-chauvin-nightclub-bumped-heads/

[tower912]

That will not be a positive for Chauvin.

[muwarrior69]

That will not be a positive for Chauvin.

I agree, especially if they can get more than one witness to corroborate what was said in that news report.

[Bad_Reporter]

I thought I read somewhere that George died of a heart attack due to the fentanyl in his system.

If that’s the case, and one juror agrees, prepare for mass riots once Chauvin is found innocent.

Could get interesting

[Hards Alumni]

I thought I read somewhere that George died of a heart attack due to the fentanyl in his system.

If that’s the case, and one juror agrees, prepare for mass riots once Chauvin is found innocent.

Could get interesting

That was not determined as the cause of death.

[Galway Eagle]

I thought I read somewhere that George died of a heart attack due to the fentanyl in his system.

If that’s the case, and one juror agrees, prepare for mass riots once Chauvin is found innocent.

Could get interesting

 if they find that brutality was what put unnecessary strain on his body Then he still gets manslaughter right?