MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: tower912 on January 16, 2016, 03:23:12 PM
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1. X is bigger, stronger, faster, deeper, more aggressive, more experienced than MU.
2. When in doubt, X attacks.
3. When in doubt, MU turns the ball over or gets passive on offense.
4. Aggressiveness gets rewarded. Especially smart aggressiveness.
5. Wally, JJJ, you guys showed up, particularly in the second half.
6. The one thing about this team is that it never quits. They never threatened X, but they kept trying.
7. Wojo, recruit some 6'8, 240 lb brutes, please.
8. Play more zone.
9. 3 top ten teams in 4 games. Oy. The Big East is a bitch.
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Cohen, Cheatham, Carter 2/15...Duane 2/15
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5. Wally, JJJ, you guys showed up, particularly in the second half.
Ironically the only two to take it to the hole....paging the rest of our guards.....
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9. 3 top ten teams in 4 games. Oy. The Big East is a bitch.
At least the next 3 games are the complete opposite:
DePaul: 6-11
St.John's: 7-12
Stetson: 7-11
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At least our FT defense is improving - held 'em to 73%.
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Duane 2/15
and 1-10 from the 3 pt line
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cohen, wally, jjj played respectable, while duane and traci were about as bad as one could possibly be.
otherwise same old same old. poor shot selection, can't make shots, can't make layups, another big east loss, another home loss
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There is no doubt that Wally and JJJ, with their experience, better understood the hard work it takes to attack a zone and not just shoot over it. Duane should know better too.
We just need to be more physical.
Next year could be worse without Henry.
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This team is playing with heart. They will get tougher and better. Fish needs to stay out of foul trouble. Someone needs to hit a three and reduce turnovers. I am optimistic. They are buying into the program and are starting to understand what it takes to win. Keep supporting this team. We need to hear real noise at home games. They deserve it.
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34% shooting, low point for this team. Missed layups,no driving when it counted, bad 3 point shooting.
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Ironically the only two to take it to the hole....paging the rest of our guards.....
Amen brother.
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Haanif's worst game in a while. The scouting report is out on him. Need to start working on the countermoves.
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http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=400840288
Some scary numbers there that do tell the story.
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As he approaches the halfway point of the season, I wonder if Coach Wojo is going to favour energy over talent in doling out minutes? That is, will Coach Wojo play Wally and JJJ more than Cohen and Cheatham?
As a post script, not only did Wilson shoot poorly, not only did he show poor shoot selection and fail to pass to open team mates, but Wilson also single handily killed team momentum numerous times in doing so.
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As he approaches the halfway point of the season, I wonder if Coach Wojo is going to favour energy over talent in doling out minutes? That is, will Coach Wojo play Wally and JJJ more than Cohen and Cheatham?
As a post script, not only did Wilson shoot poorly, not only did he show poor shoot selection and fail to pass to open team mates, but Wilson also single handily killed team momentum numerous times in doing so.
Well said.
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MU up 18-11, in comes JJJ and Wilson.
JJJ misses two shots and is benched.
Wilson misses 3 NBA threes
Carter misses two threes
Fischer misses two short hook shots
MU 0 for 9
Xavier goes 21-0 run, ballgame.
MU is 2 for 25 from three, with Carter 1 for 4 and Wilson 1 for 10.
Says it all. This team thinks they can win games with continuing to shoot threes, yet game after game, not working out too good.
Agree with Tower on the PF slot for next year. Henry probably going and my gosh one of those PFs are going to be needed real bad. That Rowsey kid will be fine because no one else can hit a three and may keep the defense honest. Right now teams are just letting them shoot the three.
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These are not the games we need to win if we want to make the tournament. Villanova and Xavier are simply a different class from the rest of the Big East. Were competing with teams like Providence, Creighton, Butler, Seton Hall, and Georgetown. Need to sweep St John's and DePaul and go 7-3 against the middle. The problem is we already lost 2 of those 3.
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MU took more good shots than bad ones. They just weren't going in for us. Cut down on turnovers, played pretty good D overall. Granted, we relied too much on the 3, but we were right with Xavier or might have even won without that 0-22 first half run. That was a killer.
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Sandy was a disappointment today. 2 fouls pushing in the back cuz he didnt box out and then got caught behind his man. Another time he didnt box out and his guy got the putback.
On his missed 3s, he jogged back on D both times.
Dwill was bad.
Henry's D is baaaaddd and causing others to help and sometimes foul because of it.
Hannif is not a point guard option anymore.
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These are not the games we need to win if we want to make the tournament. Villanova and Xavier are simply a different class from the rest of the Big East. Were competing with teams like Providence, Creighton, Butler, Seton Hall, and Georgetown. Need to sweep St John's and DePaul and go 7-3 against the middle. The problem is we already lost 2 of those 3.
The tournament MU will be playing in is the NIT.
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Marquette's offense is non existent when the other team doesn't turn it over. My guess is that's why Wojo is hesitant to play zone.
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Chris Mack's team has a lot of similarities to those old Cincy teams. Big, physical, athletic and most of all tough. We have no overall toughness. We don't quit but we lose the toughness battle against most Big East teams.
At one point we were 2-20 from the 3 point line. When in the thought process do we start thinking that maybe we should try to take the ball to the hole. Having said that, glad to see Jujuan take it to the hole consistently in the second half.
Happy to see Wally have a decent game.
Has Haanif hit the freshman wall? Lots of driving lanes to be had, he should have been way more impactful.
21-0 run. Really? We need more leadership and a better point guard. There is no way that we should be outscored 21-0 anywhere, let alone at home. No excuses. There was about a 10 minute stretch in the first half where I questioned if anyone ever played basketball. They looked scared to have the ball in their hands. The most disappointing thing about that run is that this was not the first time it happened this year.
We should probably ditch the man to man and play zone. I don't think we have the toughness or discipline to play man.
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Haanif's worst game in a while. The scouting report is out on him. Need to start working on the countermoves.
You say this every other game, and then every other game he goes off. It's not that "the scouting report is out on him." It's that he's a freshman who sometimes plays like a freshman.
I've said it over and over and over, we won't see the same team twice in a row this entire season from Marquette.
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Chris Mack
Mark Miller tweeted he was out recruiting Terrence Lewis last night in Milwaukee. MU after him, anyone know?
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What I saw of the game is Wally and JJJ played great. Mentioned before--Fischer real soft, Henry
plays bad defense and is not the quickest, better return as a soph if he intends to play in the NBA>
His Three pt shooting is atrocious, just like Wilson. Cheathanm had a bad game. Cohen has no reason
to be out there. We have no one. So we have Sam Hauser coming in and Rowsey.We let Trev
Anderson go to UWGB, Lose Jordan Poole and Kobe King to other schools. Not sure of academics.
We better get Terrence Lewis of Riverside. Lost Diamond Stone and Jameel McKay. Like afore-
mentioned PLEASE GET SOME 6-8 230 LBS BANGERS that separate opponents and can board
because its the same ole, same ole mistakes and soft play.Wish we had Maurice Lucas and Bob Lackey
Jim Chones and Larry McNeill. I don't care if we no schalorships. I think Louisville, Kentucky and
others just force lesser players off the team. Got to be a hard ass if you want to win. Crowd sounds chicken to yell and get into the game. 21-0 run STINKS.
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You say this every other game, and then every other game he goes off. It's not that "the scouting report is out on him." It's that he's a freshman who sometimes plays like a freshman.
I've said it over and over and over, we won't see the same team twice in a row this entire season from Marquette.
Fair enough. Xavier took away his left handed drive and when he did finally make the drive anticipated his move at the hoop. He will probably do better next game against a team not as big, strong, experienced.
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Where do teams like Butler find their players. KELLEN DUNHAM
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What I saw of the game is Wally and JJJ played great. Mentioned before--Fischer real soft, Henry
plays bad defense and is not the quickest, better return as a soph if he intends to play in the NBA>
His Three pt shooting is atrocious, just like Wilson. Cheathanm had a bad game. Cohen has no reason
to be out there. We have no one. So we have Sam Hauser coming in and Rowsey.We let Trev
Anderson go to UWGB, Lose Jordan Poole and Kobe King to other schools. Not sure of academics.
We better get Terrence Lewis of Riverside. Lost Diamond Stone and Jameel McKay. Like afore-
mentioned PLEASE GET SOME 6-8 230 LBS BANGERS that separate opponents and can board
because its the same ole, same ole mistakes and soft play.Wish we had Maurice Lucas and Bob Lackey
Jim Chones and Larry McNeill. I don't care if we no schalorships. I think Louisville, Kentucky and
others just force lesser players off the team. Got to be a hard ass if you want to win. Crowd sounds chicken to yell and get into the game. 21-0 run STINKS.
This post made me laugh. What a blowhard.
Tough day today. Davis' two late 3s were killers. The boys, as usual, fought hard. This wasn't a game MU needed to win, but they'll need to rattle off several in a row here. The talent on this team is evident - just so many stupid mistakes. I chalk it up to being young. X is a great squad that can go deep in March. I'll be pulling for them.
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Fair enough. Xavier took away his left handed drive and when he did finally make the drive anticipated his move at the hoop. He will probably do better next game against a team not as big, strong, experienced.
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/gamelog/_/id/3906521/haanif-cheatham
Providence and Nova are plenty big, strong, and experienced. They also had plenty of film to get the scouting report on Cheatham. He did just fine against those teams. He'll have a couple great games and then a clunker. It's what happens with freshman. He'll bounce back, regardless of the opponent's size, strength, and experience.
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Cohen, Cheatham, Carter 2/15...Duane 2/15
Cohen, Carter, Wilson, Cheatham.... 4/30.... 2/18 from three.
Teams want our guys to shoot from three. Just clog up the middle.
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This team will be amazing with a year under their belts, even without Henry. There were some really beautiful plays today (like the Duane pass to Henry, who dished it to Cheatham inside) that they just need to learn how to do consistently.
Would like to see Wally get more minutes. His impact on the energy out there is immediate and huge. He's always active and he seems to lift the team.
Would also like to see more work on offensive rebounds. I understand that Wojo is pushing the defense back to prevent transition buckets, but maybe we could keep one guy under our basket to see how the ball bounces? Seems like second chance points could be pretty important for a team that misses a lot of their first attempts.
In the meantime, Seton Hall is thrashing Providence at home. This is a crazy good league.
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I know they're freshmen, but the missing bunnies and 3-pt shooting is horrendous. A few games
we showed up with good shooting. Consistency is still lacking, by now they should be getting the
jest of playing high level D-1 basketball, more often than not.
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Go MU, but I still like Iverson, Thomas and Illikainen from UW. A couple of aggressive players with
Thomas' build with attitude, would go a long ways.
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Earl you spend a lot of your posts wishing for players that are on other teams and Marquette never recruited.
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So hard to be a good team in college ball or the NBA if you can't shoot from the perimeter and especially if you can't make threes. It's just to important in today's basketball for points and spacing.
In fact, Marquette kinda reminds me of the Bucks.
Both teams are turnover prone and with an ability to score in the paint, but because neither team can shoot from the perimeter and make threes, defenses can just clog the paint and dare both teams to hit open jumpers.
It's so frustrating to see one wide open Marquette player after another behind the three point arc nearly every game, but it's a brickfest if they take the shot.
Even more frustrating is how often you watch a good college game and a few made threes can completely change the momentum of a game, especially at home, but Marquette rarely ever has that happen for them because they have no reliable shooters.
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Go MU, but I still like Iverson, Thomas and Illikainen from UW. A couple of aggressive players with
Thomas' build with attitude, would go a long ways.
You must've missed our win at UW this year.
UW is really bad, and the only 2 guys I'm certain will be really good college players for them are juniors.
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We started pretty well with X looking a little flat and very beatable. Then came our patented FG drought. 10 minutes and no baskets later X is up by ten and totally into the game while all the life is totally out of the crowd. Just like at Nova at that point the game was effectively lost. We simply cannot have 8-10 minute stretches where we don't score. It is killing us. Wojo has got to come up with a couple plays he can go to in these situation. Then call a TO and run them. I know its easier said than done but we are losing any opportunity play with these better teams with these droughts. Its also not like X's defense was overwhelming. Its really just a complete failure to execute.
To bad. A chance missed. I don't really expect to win these games but it sure would be nice to be close enough to feel we had a chance down the stretch. Never felt that in the second half.
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Wally is a helluva bench player...almost perfect. He brings a ton to the table.
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Go MU, but I still like Iverson, Thomas and Illikainen from UW. A couple of aggressive players with
Thomas' build with attitude, would go a long ways.
Go to the badger board. They're gonna need all the fans they can get the next 5 years. We won't miss ya.
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Go MU, but I still like Iverson, Thomas and Illikainen from UW. A couple of aggressive players with
Thomas' build with attitude, would go a long ways.
You should maybe stop posting in this thread. You are embarrassing yourself right now.
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1. Paint touches matter
2. Recruit Chicago bigs. X has two of them and Farr had 19 rebounds. Ridiculous.
3. Great defensive effort. Every one harping on MU trey shooting (as they should), but X was 5-22.
4. Only 10 turnovers.
5. Two runs killed us. First half with 21-0, and start of 2nd (like Hall). Wojo only used one time out in first run. He needs to burn more with a young team. Not the best game by the coaching staff.
6. Post game, Wojo stumbling for words. Said his guards really haven't seen the zone trap and didn't react well. Not a great response.
7. Duane is one hot mess out there.
8. Ellensons were the bright spot. JJJ a bit off kilter in first after sitting out with the concussion, but had a nice run in 2nd.
9. Statistically, this is the worst MU conference offense this century. Brutal. Time to change things up, finally? Or does staff continue on?
10. Wojo pissed upper student section empty when they flashed him pre-gaming glancing up to the only empty section. Students mixed with 25% parents, and unbelievably, the whole section sat during MU fight song with 2:00 minutes to go. Dance Around Guy and the lower bowlers were up. Lame.
11. Highlight: Seven year old girl who sung national anthem. Future superstar. No slaps of five for her by MU, though.
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If Sandy isn't going to have the sack to shoot open 3s much less make them
There is zero reason to play him over JJJ right now.
JJJ is just a better player and isn't going sit and let an offense stall.
Sandy has 3pt shooting and defense.
But if he's missing/not taking shots and fouling constantly it means little.
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IMO, we're winning in spite of Wojo, not bc of him.
We may be the dumbest offensive team I have ever seen.
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I did not like losing, but I did enjoy watching Xavier play. They somewhat reminded me of the 1975-76 MU team that went 27-2. Not so much the style, because that team pressed more and played more man to man. What what similar was the level of quickness at all five positions.
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Shooting is our problem. When we shoot bad, the energy in these guys goes away. They get defeated.
Today, Xavier went to the 1-3-1 zone. You beat this zone by passing, except one problem.
Xavier didn't guard the shooters, they guarded the pass. They had zero respect (for good reason) of us hitting the 3s. Guarding the passes led to really poor movement and a very easy team to defend.
Duane tried to open things up (and Cheatham did too) by driving, but they didn't make the buckets or get fouled...they just got blocked. Which led to people standing around doing nothing.
Wally's hustle and JJJ's bigger size/strength allowed them to have some impact, but if Duane/Cheatham/Sandy can't make a jump shot, we'll get beaten every night against teams like Xavier and Villanova.
Watching Findlay Prep right now, Howard would be a great asset for this team. Go get 'em Wojo.
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The tournament MU will be playing in is the NIT.
Will the posters here still want us to turn down a bid to the CBI?
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Will the posters here still want us to turn down a bid to the CBI?
I'd be happy with any postseason tournament for this team, even the CBI. Of course the NIT or NCAAs would obviously be preferable, but I think getting postseason experience for a young team could have long term benefits.
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Agree on the girl who sang the National Anthem. Insane that a 7 year old can have that strong of a voice.
Side note, Reynolds is a punk, but Farr is a really, really nice guy. Almost two years ago to the day (some here may remember) Greg Von Rueden, a freshman from Marquette High, passed away from osteosarcoma at 15 years old. My sister had gone to Xavier (and brother currently goes there) and the weekend before he passed away Xavier played at DePaul, so she went to the game and there was a pregame mass somewhere that Farr spoke at about losing a family member (can't remember if it was a parent or aunt/uncle) to cancer. My sister approached him after the mass and told him about Greg's battle and he asked if he could send Greg a message, having her take a video of him saying he heard about Greg's battle and that he was praying for him and supporting him and telling him to keep fighting. Pretty cool of him.
I remember someone here saying he was soft a year ago, and arguing that he was just sitting behind a very good front line but his per 40 rebounding numbers were through the roof. Evidently he's not so soft.
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IMO, we're winning in spite of Wojo, not bc of him.
We may be the dumbest offensive team I have ever seen.
Specifically what would you do differently in recruiting, practice, s&c, and game play as it relates to our wins to come to the conclusion that Wojo has done a poor job in those wins?
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9. Statistically, this is the worst MU conference offense this century. Brutal. Time to change things up, finally? Or does staff continue on?
Change things up, how?
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Change things up, how?
I would bring Haanif off the bench and start and play JJJ more.
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Specifically what would you do differently in recruiting, practice, s&c, and game play as it relates to our wins to come to the conclusion that Wojo has done a poor job in those wins?
When you concentrate on recruiting shooters, you generally get players that are not physical. Wally is the only one on this team that thinks fighting for rebounds is important. I wish Henry would battle for rebounds. He gets the rebounds that come to him, but otherwise makes no effort to rebound. Henry averages almost 10 reboundds a gmae without trying. Just think what he would do, if he made it a priority.
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When you concentrate on recruiting shooters, you generally get players that are not physical. Wally is the only one on this team that thinks fighting for rebounds is important. I wish Henry would battle for rebounds. He gets the rebounds that come to him, but otherwise makes no effort to rebound. Henry averages almost 10 reboundds a gmae without trying. Just think what he would do, if he made it a priority.
You said this before. This is absolutely absurd. You don't lead one of the toughest conference in the country in rebounding by accident.
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Well said.
Yup===bench him for the rest of the year. He is using up a scholly.
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The tournament MU will be playing in is the NIT.
We hope
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Change things up, how?
There was is no movement (dribbling or motion) with a purpose in the offense which means no spacing. Xavier knew exactly where MU was going to set up and oftentimes got there before the MU player. The 1-3-1 cut off MU's guards in space. There was no movement in and out of the paint with the one in, four out offense. East-West.
Post Luke up high or face him up. Flash Sandy and Wally at the free throw line when Luke is in the low post to pass out or swing a guard through on the perimeter for a reverse, rather than running the Duke big man iso.
Duane is taking early threes way out of NBA range. Henry is hanging at the perimeter. Traci and Haanif are forcing the offense (quickest possession length is conference). Sandy is the transfer point in the offense and he can penetrate within but doesn't like nor is told to shoot. No spacing, no identity, no purpose.
I would start Duane, JJJ, Wally, Henry and Luke to infuse energy, penetration and spacing into offense. Let the freshman guards see the flow and intensity in the game from the bench so they can adjust mentally. Mix up the rotations.
I know it would be rough with the freshmen but there really is no measurable improvement so far on offense, yet coaches are adjusting to MU. Mix it up, but with a purpose. The frosh have hit their wall early as MU is well scouted. Match-ups are critical in a small home and away conference.
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Bottom line. This young, erratic team didn't get it done against a top 10 team. Many things to learn and improve upon. Not a surprise. Not a reason to wail, gnash teeth, and rend garments. Not enough composure, size, shooting, tools in the toolbox. Keep working.
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When you concentrate on recruiting shooters, you generally get players that are not physical. Wally is the only one on this team that thinks fighting for rebounds is important. I wish Henry would battle for rebounds. He gets the rebounds that come to him, but otherwise makes no effort to rebound. Henry averages almost 10 reboundds a gmae without trying. Just think what he would do, if he made it a priority.
Just did a little review on Henry & Luke's Rebounds for Total Conference games.
Luke 29 in 168 Minutes = 1 every 5.79
Henry 57 in 211 Minutes = 1 every 3.70
Interesting.
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A phase overused by Buzz, but PAINT TOUCHES.
I get that X played a solid zone, but too often we just settled for long 3s without even looking to drive or pound it inside. As others have said, JJJ and Wally were the only two perimeter guys who seemed to have any idea how to attack a zone.
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So hard to be a good team in college ball or the NBA if you can't shoot from the perimeter and especially if you can't make threes. It's just to important in today's basketball for points and spacing.
It's so frustrating to see one wide open Marquette player after another behind the three point arc nearly every game, but it's a brickfest if they take the shot.
Even more frustrating is how often you watch a good college game and a few made threes can completely change the momentum of a game, especially at home, but Marquette rarely ever has that happen for them because they have no reliable shooters.
You got this right, Dude.
When your shooting guard misses 9 of his 10 shots from behind the arc (and 13 of 15 overall), it's almost impossible to win in today's college basketball.
4-for-25 ... you just can't shoot 3's like that and expect to win many games. It makes the opponent totally disrespect your shooters, so they overplay the passing lanes and clog the paint.
We need a brute who can really rebound and play some tough interior defense, and at least two guys who can knock down shots.
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eFG% 37.1... maybe second or third worse of Wojo era? X only 46.6%.
Nonetheless, eFG% reigns supreme.
MU was 4-25 3FG for 16.0%. Ugh.
X didn't shoot they 3 well, but 2FG% they beat us 54.1% to 44.4%.
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At least the next 3 games are the complete opposite:
DePaul: 6-11
St.John's: 7-12
Stetson: 7-11
Unfortunately after that pomeroy has us as the underdog in every game except as a 1-point favorite at home against gtown. To saybwe can't get upset in any of these is an understatement.
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This team is playing with heart. They will get tougher and better. Fish needs to stay out of foul trouble. Someone needs to hit a three and reduce turnovers. I am optimistic. They are buying into the program and are starting to understand what it takes to win. Keep supporting this team. We need to hear real noise at home games. They deserve it.
Fish is the best. If Henry and Diane both start hitting treys we could go on a run with little notice. If not it will be a true rebuilding year.
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Biggest problem against the Xavier zone was indecisiveness. Too much catch, look around, fake. Get the ball and go. Keep the ball moving. Attack the seams of the zone and dish when you meet resistance. Basic stuff. When we dribble we often are double teamed but can't find the open man. You can see the pass that needs to be made from the couch, but the players on the floor often don't see it. Frustrating to watch sometimes.
That's why JJJ and Wally were pretty good yesterday. They were decisive in their play. I think sometimes we're too protective of the ball and can be counter-productive and lead to turnovers, because the defense can be more aggressive. I can live with turnovers if they are because we are aggressive.
They are young and will figure it out at some point.
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Biggest problem against the Xavier zone was indecisiveness. Too much catch, look around, fake. Get the ball and go. Keep the ball moving. Attack the seams of the zone and dish when you meet resistance. Basic stuff. When we dribble we often are double teamed but can't find the open man. You can see the pass that needs to be made from the couch, but the players on the floor often don't see it. Frustrating to watch sometimes.
That's why JJJ and Wally were pretty good yesterday. They were decisive in their play. I think sometimes we're too protective of the ball and can be counter-productive and lead to turnovers, because the defense can be more aggressive. I can live with turnovers if they are because we are aggressive.
They are young and will figure it out at some point.
Plus Tax
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Biggest problem against the Xavier zone was indecisiveness. Too much catch, look around, fake. Get the ball and go. Keep the ball moving. Attack the seams of the zone and dish when you meet resistance. Basic stuff. When we dribble we often are double teamed but can't find the open man. You can see the pass that needs to be made from the couch, but the players on the floor often don't see it. Frustrating to watch sometimes.
That's why JJJ and Wally were pretty good yesterday. They were decisive in their play. I think sometimes we're too protective of the ball and can be counter-productive and lead to turnovers, because the defense can be more aggressive. I can live with turnovers if they are because we are aggressive.
They are young and will figure it out at some point.
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Trying to quote first sentence of CT Warrior. Agree with his thought - when we have a three opportunity (even when wide open) it seems like the player is looking, looking, maybe faking a pass, not sure, not sure, OK, shoot. They need to know they are open and shoot in rhythm. I think the % would go up.
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You said this before. This is absolutely absurd. You don't lead one of the toughest conference in the country in rebounding by accident.
Against Xavier his first rebound he was two feet from the basket when the ball came off the rim directly at him and he grabbed it without having to jump. The second rebound he was closer to the basket, but again it came directly to him with no competition. He had a shot at a third rebound that was contested and the the ball went out of bounds. His third rebound was an offensive put back he was in position for. That one he jumped on to put it back in. His fourth rebound he was standing almost under the basket and the ball hit the rim and bounce almost straight down to him. Again he did not have to jump. He almost had a fifth rebound on a missed free throw, but it was lost out of bounds when the Xavier player was called for an over the back foul. His fifth rebound was an offensive rebound, when the MU player missed the entire rim on a three point attempt and Henry was standing on the other side of the rim in perfect position for it. He had another rebound that was tipped over the rim by another MU player. That one he did jump for. I am drawing a blank on the other rebound, but six of them he basically had no competition for. The two he had to battle for he did not get, but MU got the ball because of the over the back foul and the other rebound that went out of bounds was ruled to be off the other player. Ellenson has great hands and reaction so he basically gets every rebound that comes directly at him. However, he rarely wins on contested rebounds. I have been watching for Ellenson's rebounds since the exhibition game and he is basically a flat footed rebounder. He has great size, long arms and great hand to eye coordination, but he is not an active rebounder. Against Xavier he had 7 rebounds and competed for the nother two. So he snagged 7 out of 9 opportunities, which is a pretty good ratio. However, given the minutes he plays and his size should he of had only 9 opportunities at a rebound in the game? My point is that he is very efficient at rebounding, but does not make an effort to get rebounds.
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Against Xavier his first rebound he was two feet from the basket when the ball came off the rim directly at him and he grabbed it without having to jump. The second rebound he was closer to the basket, but again it came directly to him with no competition. He had a shot at a third rebound that was contested and the the ball went out of bounds. His third rebound was an offensive put back he was in position for. That one he jumped on to put it back in. His fourth rebound he was standing almost under the basket and the ball hit the rim and bounce almost straight down to him. Again he did not have to jump. He almost had a fifth rebound on a missed free throw, but it was lost out of bounds when the Xavier player was called for an over the back foul. His fifth rebound was an offensive rebound, when the MU player missed the entire rim on a three point attempt and Henry was standing on the other side of the rim in perfect position for it. He had another rebound that was tipped over the rim by another MU player. That one he did jump for. I am drawing a blank on the other rebound, but six of them he basically had no competition for. The two he had to battle for he did not get, but MU got the ball because of the over the back foul and the other rebound that went out of bounds was ruled to be off the other player. Ellenson has great hands and reaction so he basically gets every rebound that comes directly at him. However, he rarely wins on contested rebounds. I have been watching for Ellenson's rebounds since the exhibition game and he is basically a flat footed rebounder. He has great size, long arms and great hand to eye coordination, but he is not an active rebounder. Against Xavier he had 7 rebounds and competed for the nother two. So he snagged 7 out of 9 opportunities, which is a pretty good ratio. However, given the minutes he plays and his size should he of had only 9 opportunities at a rebound in the game? My point is that he is very efficient at rebounding, but does not make an effort to get rebounds.
Okay, you're right, he just leads one of the toughest conferences in the country in rebounding. :o
You don't get 10 rebounds per game without competing. You don't get 10 rebounds per game simply by being 6'10". There are plenty of kids 6'10" or taller in college basketball. There are 30 players in college basketball who are getting more rebounds per game than Henry. There are 347 D1 college basketball teams, each with 13 scholarships to offer. Henry is the 31st leading rebounder out of 4,511 total college basketball scholarships available. That puts him in the top 0.687% of college basketball at rebounding. Of all the things you could complain about with this team, I'm not really sure why you're complaining about this.
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So now Henry's rebounds aren't good enough?
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That is up there with the misbegotten notion that Derrick's assists weren't real assists.
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SOMETHING POSITIVE. Sam Hauser had 35 pts, 9 assists and 8 boards for Stevens Point
as they beat Champlin, Minn. 89-73. Theo John had 7 and McKinly Wright had 22. Trev Anderson
22 and Joey Hauser 25 for SPASH.Wright and John were mentioned on the board as MU prospects.
I don't wish for players. But Thomas of UW has a great build for BE play and we could use a body-
like that, who would have an attitude for rebounding. Not Thomas a good recruit with a build
like that, not 5-10 guards. I think Traci will be fine. He missed most of his SR year with an injury in
HS.
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A few thoughts that may provide some perspective on what this game means (I know, a long shot with many posters on this board):
1. Xavier has lost 1 game this entire season, at #16 Villanova. Along the way, they've beaten #24 Michigan on the road, #23 Cincinnati and #9 Butler. No one else has come closer than Marquette to beating them, home or away. Xavier deserves its ranking to this point. They're a really good team. They were supposed to win against MU, and they did. No shame in that.
2. MU held Xavier under their season average for scoring (80 ppg), FG% (45.3%) and 3PT% (36.4%), while forcing 15 turnovers. In other words, Marquette turned in a pretty good defensive performance.
3. Henry, Jajuan, Luke and Wally combined to hit 20 of 40 shots (50.0%). By contrast, the rest of the team was just 4-30 (13.3%) from the field, including 2-18 from 3-point range (11.1%). That's almost unbelievably awful. So awful, in fact, that you're unlikely to see another performance that bad the rest of the season. Probability may offer cold comfort, but at least it's something.
This season is far from over. Making the NCAAs is by no means a guarantee. But it's still a realistic possibility at this point if we can get back to .500 in conference play. Let's see how the team responds over the next couple weeks.
You may now return to your regularly scheduled despair and overreacting.
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SOMETHING POSITIVE. Sam Hauser had 35 pts, 9 assists and 8 boards for Stevens Point
as they beat Champlin, Minn. 89-73. Theo John had 7 and McKinly Wright had 22. Trev Anderson
22 and Joey Hauser 25 for SPASH.Wright and John were mentioned on the board as MU prospects.
I don't wish for players. But Thomas of UW has a great build for BE play and we could use a body-
like that, who would have an attitude for rebounding. Not Thomas a good recruit with a build
like that, not 5-10 guards. I think Traci will be fine. He missed most of his SR year with an injury in
HS.
Excellent game from the big 3 Wisconsin freshman today (illikainen, Thomas, Iverson). The 3 combined for 2 points and 1 rebound. Really wish we had those guys instead of the guys we have. Like you mentioned, Thomas would have made all of the difference yesterday. Also, it's not a good sign that UWGB is now beating us for recruits.
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So now Henry's rebounds aren't good enough?
Apparently not. Watching the shot, knowing where your man is, being in the right position, blocking out and actually securing a rebound are all clearly a matter of pure luck. If Henry were any good, if he put any effort into rebounding whatsoever, he'd be averaging at least 16, 18, 20 boards a game.
This board truly offers an invaluable education on the game of basketball.
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I don't want Thomas, but someone who has that size and can rebound and separate around
the basket. Also, we already have small players like 6^-2. But, I will tell you Trev Anderson is
the real deal.Would be a good high percentage shooter. Nothing fancy, he just knows what to do
and where to pass the ball. He does lack elite speed. If Mark Miller is smart, he should chime
right in and say what he thinks. A former N-H newspaper worker.
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I agree that Xavier is a much better team and it was no surprise they won.
What was disappointing for me was that the scouting report - that Xavier will use 1-3-1 zone for half or more of the game- didn't translate into an effective offense against that specific defense. There are 3 gaps in the 1-3 1... weak side base line, free throw line extended, and wing on the 3pt line, and when there's a strong side drive, the dish to the weak side baseline is usually open. The only place we had guys was on the 3pt line wing, and we were missing. Most teams don't use 1-3-1 because it's so easy to get buckets on the base line against it, but MU had no plan to exploit this. WHY? Who had the scout? Who designs the offense? How did they miss this?
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A few thoughts that may provide some perspective on what this game means (I know, a long shot with many posters on this board):
1. Xavier has lost 1 game this entire season, at #16 Villanova. Along the way, they've beaten #24 Michigan on the road, #23 Cincinnati and #9 Butler. No one else has come closer than Marquette to beating them, home or away. Xavier deserves its ranking to this point. They're a really good team. They were supposed to win against MU, and they did. No shame in that.
2. MU held Xavier under their season average for scoring (80 ppg), FG% (45.3%) and 3PT% (36.4%), while forcing 15 turnovers. In other words, Marquette turned in a pretty good defensive performance.
3. Henry, Jajuan, Luke and Wally combined to hit 20 of 40 shots (50.0%). By contrast, the rest of the team was just 4-30 (13.3%) from the field, including 2-18 from 3-point range (11.1%). That's almost unbelievably awful. So awful, in fact, that you're unlikely to see another performance that bad the rest of the season. Probability may offer cold comfort, but at least it's something.
This season is far from over. Making the NCAAs is by no means a guarantee. But it's still a realistic possibility at this point if we can get back to .500 in conference play. Let's see how the team responds over the next couple weeks.
You may now return to your regularly scheduled despair and overreacting.
Far too little credit being given to X, but our shooting really can be atrocious. There were a number of possessions where we didn't jack up a quick 3 that saw the offence essentially stagnant. Very frustrating.
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Far too little credit being given to X, but our shooting really can be atrocious. There were a number of possessions where we didn't jack up a quick 3 that saw the offence essentially stagnant. Very frustrating.
Frustrating is putting it lightly. Xavier's 21-0 run was a crusher, all the more disappointing after Marquette started the game so strong.
It brought to mind the NCAA game when Michigan State held MU scoreless for nearly the first 10 minutes of the game. That was "only" a 14-0 run, but it's still a huge hurdle to overcome. Like the Xavier game, Crean waited too long to call a timeout and give his team a chance to regroup.
I get that coaches want to give the team a chance to fight through adversity. But I do think Wojo erred in not helping his young team settle down. Knowing when to use timeouts is a critical responsibility.
As much as this team has to learn some lessons the hard way, Wojo has to do the same as a head coach. Let's hope he's a fast learner.
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I agree that Xavier is a much better team and it was no surprise they won.
What was disappointing for me was that the scouting report - that Xavier will use 1-3-1 zone for half or more of the game- didn't translate into an effective offense against that specific defense. There are 3 gaps in the 1-3 1... weak side base line, free throw line extended, and wing on the 3pt line, and when there's a strong side drive, the dish to the weak side baseline is usually open. The only place we had guys was on the 3pt line wing, and we were missing. Most teams don't use 1-3-1 because it's so easy to get buckets on the base line against it, but MU had no plan to exploit this. WHY? Who had the scout? Who designs the offense? How did they miss this?
Seems like 16 of Xavier's 17 opponents' coaches must be clueless.
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Seems like 16 of Xavier's 17 opponents' coaches must be clueless.
Especially since our 8 point loss was toed for the closest any of those 16 coaches came to beating X
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That is up there with the misbegotten notion that Derrick's assists weren't real assists.
A Scoop classic - assists that really shouldn't have counted because they didn't meet the requisite degree of difficulty!
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SOMETHING POSITIVE. Sam Hauser had 35 pts, 9 assists and 8 boards for Stevens Point
as they beat Champlin, Minn. 89-73. Theo John had 7 and McKinly Wright had 22. Trev Anderson
22 and Joey Hauser 25 for SPASH.Wright and John were mentioned on the board as MU prospects.
I don't wish for players. But Thomas of UW has a great build for BE play and we could use a body-
like that, who would have an attitude for rebounding. Not Thomas a good recruit with a build
like that, not 5-10 guards. I think Traci will be fine. He missed most of his SR year with an injury in
HS.
Once Sam puts an MU uniform on his ability to score points will be non-existent.
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I agree that Xavier is a much better team and it was no surprise they won.
What was disappointing for me was that the scouting report - that Xavier will use 1-3-1 zone for half or more of the game- didn't translate into an effective offense against that specific defense. There are 3 gaps in the 1-3 1... weak side base line, free throw line extended, and wing on the 3pt line, and when there's a strong side drive, the dish to the weak side baseline is usually open. The only place we had guys was on the 3pt line wing, and we were missing. Most teams don't use 1-3-1 because it's so easy to get buckets on the base line against it, but MU had no plan to exploit this. WHY? Who had the scout? Who designs the offense? How did they miss this?
Wojo mentioned this in his postgame show. He said the freshmen have never played against this before. He also said that while they can try to prepare for it, they were not prepared to play against players with that length and quickness. Basically, MU does not have the players to replicate it in practice. Think about the starters practicing against a 1-3-1 ran by Heldt, Wally, Anim, JJJ, and Wilson (who have probably do not have much experience running a 1-3-1 zone) and then try to do it against Xavier's starters who have much more experience in using this type of defense.
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Assists = more about style than offensive efficiency. Plenty of great offensive teams that don't assist on a lot of their buckets.
High assist rates for a team can actually be indicative of bad things offensively
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Wojo mentioned this in his postgame show. He said the freshmen have never played against this before. He also said that while they can try to prepare for it, they were not prepared to play against players with that length and quickness. Basically, MU does not have the players to replicate it in practice. Think about the starters practicing against a 1-3-1 ran by Heldt, Wally, Anim, JJJ, and Wilson (who have probably do not have much experience running a 1-3-1 zone) and then try to do it against Xavier's starters who have much more experience in using this type of defense.
See the Amigos, Three.