Why JJJ has to play 25+ minutes per game

[Vander Blue Man Group]

That's nice Blue Man.  If you are such a proponent of players earning minutes, can you please share with me what Derrick Wilson did yesterday to earn 40 minutes, or last season to earn more minutes than any other player on the roster?

And for the 100th time, just because you come into a game and miss your first two shots or have a turnover or two, it doesn't mean you are going to SUCK for the whole game.  If JJJ starts a game with some of those events, historically Wojo yanks him and rarely gives him more time.  You can't put up stats sitting on the bench.  Furthermore, if you go into a game thinking if I screw up/miss my first couple of shots, I know it is bench city - you play tight.  YOu have to let your talented guys play through their mistakes.  JJJ is probably the most talented player on this entire roster at this point, and using him 15 minutes per game is ridiculous, and of course it helped contribute to us losing 6 games in a row, while Wojo tried to use motivational tactics on JJJ (that were unnecessary.)

It's amazing how many people here seem to desire having a player that does virtually NOTHING other than not making mistakes, because they play so incredibly conservatively and passively, that they never put themselves in a position to screw up.  But that player "plays within himself," "knows his role," etc.

I agree JJJ has struggled from the 3 point line, obviously, yet he needs to keep shooting them as most of them are open shots/good looks.  I was impressed that during the game yesterday Wojo told JJ - "JJ if it's an open shot, shoot it."  JJ passed up on a good look from the 3 after missing his first two attempts yesterday, in a possession toward the end of the shot clock.  He passed to a teammate who then got a worse look and missed.

My post was about primarily about JJJ yet you made it mostly about Derrick.  Not to mention it was positive in regards to JJJ.  Honestly, you should talk to someone about this obsession - it can't be healthy.    

Should a player be pulled based on a couple of missed shots or a couple of turnovers?  Well, that depends.  What was the shot selection?  Were they careless turnovers from playing out of control?  Are the turnovers or poor shot selection or poor defensive positioning a pattern with a particular player?  If yes, then yank him.  Why should any player be rewarded for poor play?  

Again, I liked what I saw from JJJ yesterday.  He played under control for the most part, he fed Luke, he attacked the rim, he was better defensively, had a couple of nice dishes off of drives.  I would love to see him keep it up.  Whether he is the most talented player on the roster is arguable.  He may be the most gifted athletically but those are two distinct things.  So far he hasn't used his physical skills to his advantage.  

As for your favorite player, I have no issue with him playing less.  I imagine Wojo plays him because he values his defense, leadership and ball security.  If JJJ is letting the fact the Derrick plays big minutes negatively impact him then he is mentally weak.  That being said, I don't think it does.  JJJ getting more minutes is up to JJJ and his play.  It really is that simple.  The two issues can be separated.    

[NersEllenson]

My post was about primarily about JJJ yet you made it mostly about Derrick.  Not to mention it was positive in regards to JJJ.  Honestly, you should talk to someone about this obsession - it can't be healthy.    

Should a player be pulled based on a couple of missed shots or a couple of turnovers?  Well, that depends.  What was the shot selection?  Were they careless turnovers from playing out of control?  Are the turnovers or poor shot selection or poor defensive positioning a pattern with a particular player?  If yes, then yank him.  Why should any player be rewarded for poor play?  

Again, I liked what I saw from JJJ yesterday.  He played under control for the most part, he fed Luke, he attacked the rim, he was better defensively, had a couple of nice dishes off of drives.  I would love to see him keep it up.  Whether he is the most talented player on the roster is arguable.  He may be the most gifted athletically but those are two distinct things.  So far he hasn't used his physical skills to his advantage.  

As for your favorite player, I have no issue with him playing less.  I imagine Wojo plays him because he values his defense, leadership and ball security.  If JJJ is letting the fact the Derrick plays big minutes negatively impact him then he is mentally weak.  That being said, I don't think it does.  JJJ getting more minutes is up to JJJ and his play.  It really is that simple.  The two issues can be separated.    

No worries Blue Man - I'm all good, no need to talk with anybody about the obsession.  I just find it contradictory when people who want to suggest JJJ doesn't earn his time, or needs to earn, also champion and support another player earning time.  Yet when asked what they are doing on the floor, in games, to earn that time - it's usually crickets.  Or nothing more, than "playing within himself," or other generally hollow things such as "leadership," "ball security."  It's easy to be secure with the ball when you almost NEVER force any action.

I guess I just fundamentally disagree with the faction who champions a player like Derrick while discrediting a player like JJJ.  I want a team full of aggressive guys.  Guys who don't play scared.  Guys who force action.  I'll take an aggressive guy who plays to win all day long over a passive and timid player who plays not to screw up all day, every day.

I do agree with you when you ask the question:  Why should any player be rewarded for poor play?  I don't feel JJJ is mentally weak.  Did Derrick earn his 40 yesterday?  Seriously, let's hear it.  Did he? I see a guy, like Burton, who instead probably wonders WTF do I need to do to get more minutes, when the guy in front of me seemingly doesn't do jack on the floor but keeps getting max minutes.

[NersEllenson]

Before you anoit JJJ as a potential star, he has a lot areas to improve on, one is his shooting.  In the first half, he had a wide open shot on the baseline and he missed it wide right barely touching the rim.  He will given total opportunity to start at the three next year. Gains 10 pounds of muscle, learns to go to his left a tad, and able to knock down a three consistently will
make playing time more readily available.  Another point, like to see against X the same type of game from Steve Taylor and JJJ.  Even Duane.  Consistency has been lacking from all 3.  Taylor
being a senior next year could be an X factor.  At times could play Ellenson, Fisher and Taylor together which would give MU a big frontline, add Cheatham and JJJ at the guards and MU is as
big as an NBA team,  interesting.

I agree JJJ has plenty he can improve on.  ON the baseline 3 he took, that was a bad decision, as he could have driven the ball all the way to the rim for either a dunk, or likely a foul and trip to the FT line.  Although the 3 was wide open, he shouldn't have taken that one.  He does need to go to his left better as well.  He needs to add strength.  However, he's got the foundation/potential to become a VERY good player at this level - and at present on this team - I don't see a guy on the roster with more potential (perhaps Duane), but let's cultivate that talent and max his minutes here on out.

[MU82]

Still would like any of the usual head coach slurpers - TAMU, Sultan, OnePost, 82, LIghthouse84 - to actually disprove my points made:

There is nothing to prove or disprove. Everything involved here is opinion-based on both sides.

I believe JJJ played more in certain games earlier in the season because he played well in those games earlier in the season. You believe the inverse is true; he played well because he got the minutes. Perhaps, if one allows for nuance instead of always insisting upon "either-or," the truth lies somewhere in between.

I believe JJJ was benched because he practiced poorly and his coach wanted to show him -- and everybody else -- that this was unacceptable. I cannot think of any other possible incentive Wojo would have had to bench one of his eight scholarship athletes. If that makes me a slurper, I've been called worse. If you have some proof of some more sinister reason for the benching, I'm all ears. But it has to be PROOF, not innuendo, third-hand BS or a feeling based upon your past prep superduperstardom. Otherwise, it's just another mope's uneducated opinion.

And I believe that, since the benching, Wojo has gradually increased JJJ's time because JJJ earned it through better practice habits and improved game play. I believe the benching motivated JJJ, but I have no proof nor do I pretend I do.

Of course JJJ got a career high 35 minutes yesterday only because Carlino was concussed -- that is something we both can agree upon. However, I believe that had JJJ performed poorly and Cohen (who played only 11 minutes) performed well in his stead, it would have been Cohen getting more minutes and JJJ getting fewer. And I would have been OK with that.

I'm not going back into this thread to look it up, but I'm wondering if in mentioning JJJ's 25+ minute games this season you also included his 5 PT, 3 TO showing in 31 minutes in the loss to Ohio State and his 7 PT, 3 TO showing in 28 minutes in our near-loss to NJIT. One could argue quite convincingly that Wojo stuck with him too long in both games.

Lastly, I'm not mentioning a certain PG's name because this isn't about him in the slightest and my opinion about him already has been stated numerous times. Just a reminder -- my opinion actually is very similar to your position on him. I'm simply not an over-the-top, annoying, obsessive, repetitive, know-it-all, condescending dick about it.

[BCHoopster]

He took the corner shot and was wild, his 3 point shooting all year is horrible.  Your 3 needs to score much like the point in college.  Somebody will have to step up, Cohen is a better shooter but with that slow release will have to be wide open.  JJJ will have his chance.  The next 10'games or so will show us if Wojo decides to play his seniors less, but played Derrick 40 minutes yesterday so who knows.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

No worries Blue Man - I'm all good, no need to talk with anybody about the obsession.  I just find it contradictory when people who want to suggest JJJ doesn't earn his time, or needs to earn, also champion and support another player earning time.  Yet when asked what they are doing on the floor, in games, to earn that time - it's usually crickets.  Or nothing more, than "playing within himself," or other generally hollow things such as "leadership," "ball security."  It's easy to be secure with the ball when you almost NEVER force any action.

I guess I just fundamentally disagree with the faction who champions a player like Derrick while discrediting a player like JJJ.  I want a team full of aggressive guys.  Guys who don't play scared.  Guys who force action.  I'll take an aggressive guy who plays to win all day long over a passive and timid player who plays not to screw up all day, every day.

I do agree with you when you ask the question:  Why should any player be rewarded for poor play?  I don't feel JJJ is mentally weak.  Did Derrick earn his 40 yesterday?  Seriously, let's hear it.  Did he? I see a guy, like Burton, who instead probably wonders WTF do I need to do to get more minutes, when the guy in front of me seemingly doesn't do jack on the floor but keeps getting max minutes.

Maybe I'm wrong here but I feel like there have been a lot of instances where posters have been critically (rightfully) of JJJ and you automatically equate that to championing Derrick when that is not the case. Derrick is miscast - he would be a quality backup PG playing 10-15 minutes on a good team.  However, we are not a good team.  I don't think Derrick is a good player but I also don't think he is as bad as you make him up to be.  I think you undervalue what be brings defensively and while his assist to turnover ratio is partially inflated because he doesn't attack a lot it is still a positive skill.    

If JJJ got another 5 MPG directly at the expense of Derrick I've got no issue with that.  But I want it to be because he is positively impacting the outcome of the game.  If Wojo thinks he is doing so more than Derrick then I think we see that happen.  I hope it does but JJJ is in control of that.  

I'll leave the Burton discussion for another time.  

[mattyv1908]

Ners commonly downplays predictive stats in part because they are harder to quantify as a viewer than regular box score figures.  It was very common in baseball when sabermetrics were first utilized and it's common in basketball as well.

Predictive stats are not perfect (no statistic is), but I prefer them to usual statistics as they attempt to measure the future outcomes instead of becoming a tally of past results.

Because win shares, value add, etc. all require a more cerebral viewing lens than traditional statistical measures it's easy to discount them when a player like Derrick Wilson isn't filling up the traditional stat line.

What's funny about all this is that I played high school basketball too and have come to a completely different opinion than Ners this season about Derrick.  Maybe Ners played for a really small school???

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

JjJ has better stats when he plays 25 minutes because Wojo rides him when he's hot, benches him when he's not.

5 of JjJ's 25+ minute games before the benching were against sub 100 opponents. 4 of them were sub 150. After the Providence game, he had two terrible games in a row. Wojo sensed the start of a slump, and apparently there was some sort of issue with his practicing. JjJ was benched, and since has improved each game.

Derrick Wilson does earn his time, just not always with things that appear in the box score. Since you love Bama's stats (when they support JjJ) you'll notice the Derrick is number two on our team in terms of value add.

Derrick also gets treated differently than JjJ. It's true. Derrick is a senior captain who has proven through consistent play that he is one of the five best players on the team. JjJ has proven himself to be inconsistent at best. Yesterday he was great. The two games before he was benched, he was terrible. JjJ is a bench player. Derrick is a starter. Bench players have to earn their time more than starters. Any coach would tell you that.

It's true, my assertion that JjJ responded well to the benching and his improved as a result is an opinion. Same as your opinion that JjJ has been this good all along and now Wojo is trying to cover his arse for not playing him more earlier. Neither of us has any proof. Both are valid views.

I choose to believe the opinion that makes our coach look like a strong motivator and our player like a hard worker who is constantly working to improve his game.

Question is, why do you jump to the opinion that makes our coach look like an incompetent villain and our player a self entitled pouter who whines when he doesn't get his way?

[NersEllenson]

Ners commonly downplays predictive stats in part because they are harder to quantify as a viewer than regular box score figures.  It was very common in baseball when sabermetrics were first utilized and it's common in basketball as well.

Predictive stats are not perfect (no statistic is), but I prefer them to usual statistics as they attempt to measure the future outcomes instead of becoming a tally of past results.

Because win shares, value add, etc. all require a more cerebral viewing lens than traditional statistical measures it's easy to discount them when a player like Derrick Wilson isn't filling up the traditional stat line.

What's funny about all this is that I played high school basketball too and have come to a completely different opinion than Ners this season about Derrick.  Maybe Ners played for a really small school???

Don't doubt you played ball Matty as we find agreement in many takes.  A little confused at what your point is:  Aren't predictive stats based on past results?  I don't have an issue with predictive or advanced stats at all.  I do feel O-Rating in and of itself and by itself is not a good statistic.

As for Derrick.  Is he better this year?  Yes.  Do I feel his win/shares/value add suggest he's an asset as you could argue they do?  No.  I still feel he's a big drag on the team.  At some point you have to look at overall team O-Efficiency.  Last year and this year are the two worst O-RAted teams at MU in the last 15 years.  Considering your PG is usually your playmaker and engine of your offense - I don't feel it is a mere coincidence that these past two years our offense has been anemic.

And if we are talking win shares - well, the team isn't winning.  We won yesterday in spite of him.  As has been pointed out, just be sheer virtue of playing major minutes, you are going to garner some stats such as rebounds and assists.  The assist to turnover ratio in my view with regard to Derrick is skewed by two things:  He plays max minutes and the ball passes through his hands a ton over the course of a game.  He rarely turns the ball over, because he rarely forces action/puts himself in harms way.  So while he doesn't put himself in harms way, his passive play puts the team in harms way - and thus your worst O-Efficiency ratings for MU teams in the last 15 years - and on teams with solid talent.

[NersEllenson]

JjJ has better stats when he plays 25 minutes because Wojo rides him when he's hot, benches him when he's not.

5 of JjJ's 25+ minute games before the benching were against sub 100 opponents. 4 of them were sub 150. After the Providence game, he had two terrible games in a row. Wojo sensed the start of a slump, and apparently there was some sort of issue with his practicing. JjJ was benched, and since has improved each game.

Derrick Wilson does earn his time, just not always with things that appear in the box score. Since you love Bama's stats (when they support JjJ) you'll notice the Derrick is number two on our team in terms of value add.

Derrick also gets treated differently than JjJ. It's true. Derrick is a senior captain who has proven through consistent play that he is one of the five best players on the team. JjJ has proven himself to be inconsistent at best. Yesterday he was great. The two games before he was benched, he was terrible. JjJ is a bench player. Derrick is a starter. Bench players have to earn their time more than starters. Any coach would tell you that.

It's true, my assertion that JjJ responded well to the benching and his improved as a result is an opinion. Same as your opinion that JjJ has been this good all along and now Wojo is trying to cover his arse for not playing him more earlier. Neither of us has any proof. Both are valid views.

I choose to believe the opinion that makes our coach look like a strong motivator and our player like a hard worker who is constantly working to improve his game.

Question is, why do you jump to the opinion that makes our coach look like an incompetent villain and our player a self entitled pouter who whines when he doesn't get his way?

So was Wojo riding JJJ in the Ohio State game because he was playing so well?  What about NJIT?  Was he riding him again there because he was playing so well?  If Wojo rides JJJ when he's playing well, why did he limit him to 15 minutes against Tennessee?  You could say perhaps the DePaul game too.

I factored in ALL of JJJ's games where he got 25+ minutes - the good games/bad games.  The stats are what they are.  13/4/2/3/2

You and your crew are doing whatever you can to try to dissect, discount, and discredit the reality of the stats.  Furthermore, you try to say JJJ's been better since the benching??  NO.  He hasn't been. Until yesterday, and perhaps Villanova - but those two games weren't anything different than his typical output when given time prior to his benching.

Personally, I don't think our players are self entitled pouters who whine when they don't get their way.  I see them being competitors and realists - and when you see guys making the same mistakes as you, yet given much longer leashes - it causes you as a player to lose confidence in the leadership of your coach.  And...typically you move on.   

I felt Buzz did an awful job last year, and that his head wasn't in the right place - and the results beared that out.  As for Wojo, he's made his fair share of mistakes this season as well.  He's a rookie head coach, so he gets a pass on some of that.  I simply feel he is/was playing Russian Roulette with JJJ by benching him - and the benching was unnecessary.  Nor do I blame JJJ being frustrated with Wojo's coaching at the time of the benching.

[WarriorInNYC]

Still would like any of the usual head coach slurpers - TAMU, Sultan, OnePost, 82, LIghthouse84 - to actually disprove my points made:

JJJ's production yesterday was essentially the exact same as it was in the other 6 games that he played 25+ minutes - all of which were before the benching.  So how can you say the benching was the reason JJJ played well against Seton Hall??  He played well, because he got lots of minutes, just as is the case the other 6 times Wojo let him run.

I know this doesn't fit your narrative, so I'm sure you will find some way to discredit this or change your argument to better suit what your spitting.  But I took a look through the play by plays for the first half for all games against Big East or other major conference programs and took a look at JjJ's first half performance for each of these.  For some reason, the OSU game's play by play was unavailable on ESPN.com, but we are all well aware of his struggles that game.

Games prior to Xavier benching where JjJ received less than 25 minutes
7 games
7/19 from the field   36.8% from the field
17 points               2.4 ppg (per half)
7 rebounds             1 rpg (per half)
4 Assists                .6 apg (per half)
6 Turnovers            .9 tpg (per half)   1 assist/1.5 turnover
1 Block                  .1 bpg (per half)

Games after Xavier benching where JjJ received less than 25 minutes
4 Games
4/15 from the field   26.7% from the field
11 points                2.75 ppg (per half)
5 rebounds             1.25 rbp   (per half)
2 Assist                 .5 apg (per half)
3 Turnovers            .75 tpg (per half)     1 assist/1.5 turnover
1 Block                  .25 bpg (per half)

Games JjJ has received over 25 minutes
3 Games (ASU, SHU, Prov)
11/23 from the field     47.8% from the field
25 points                   8.33 ppg (per half)
9 rebounds                3 rpg (per half)
4 assist                    1.33 apg (per half)
5 turnovers               1.67 tpg (per half)    1 assist/1.25 turnover
1 block                     0.33 bpg (per half)
4 steals                    1.33 spg (per half)

But of course, JjJ receiving more minutes has nothing to do with how he is playing in each game  

[BallBoy]

I know this doesn't fit your narrative, so I'm sure you will find some way to discredit this or change your argument to better suit what your spitting.  But I took a look through the play by plays for the first half for all games against Big East or other major conference programs and took a look at JjJ's first half performance for each of these.  For some reason, the OSU game's play by play was unavailable on ESPN.com, but we are all well aware of his struggles that game.

Games prior to Xavier benching where JjJ received less than 25 minutes
7 games
7/19 from the field   36.8% from the field
17 points               2.4 ppg (per half)
7 rebounds             1 rpg (per half)
4 Assists                .6 apg (per half)
6 Turnovers            .9 tpg (per half)   1 assist/1.5 turnover
1 Block                  .1 bpg (per half)

Games after Xavier benching where JjJ received less than 25 minutes
4 Games
4/15 from the field   26.7% from the field
11 points                2.75 ppg (per half)
5 rebounds             1.25 rbp   (per half)
2 Assist                 .5 apg (per half)
3 Turnovers            .75 tpg (per half)     1 assist/1.5 turnover
1 Block                  .25 bpg (per half)

Games JjJ has received over 25 minutes
3 Games (ASU, SHU, Prov)
11/23 from the field     47.8% from the field
25 points                   8.33 ppg (per half)
9 rebounds                3 rpg (per half)
4 assist                    1.33 apg (per half)
5 turnovers               1.67 tpg (per half)    1 assist/1.25 turnover
1 block                     0.33 bpg (per half)
4 steals                    1.33 spg (per half)

But of course, JjJ receiving more minutes has nothing to do with how he is playing in each game  

Using predictive analytics, I am guessing Ners will counter with

25 minutes isn't the key point. 25 minutes just represents that he got a good continuous run. Some players need to get into the flow of the game so because of his extended run he produced.  At 20-25 minutes a game, he didn't get the continuous run so his clunkers should be excluded.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Since you are such a fan of stats.

JjJ's line against top 100 opponents pre-benching (avg. rank of team 44):
4.5 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 1.5 apg, 0.1 bpg, 0.8 spg, 1.1 fpg, 1.9 tpg, .295 FG%, .060 3P%

JjJ's line against top 100 opponents post benching (avg. rank of team 31):
6 ppg, 2.6 rpg, 1 apg, 0.4 bpg, 0.4 spg, 0.6 fpg, 1.2 tpg, .324 FG%, .200 3P%

JjJ is doing better across the board, despite tougher competition. The only stats that have gone down are steals and assists. I think the rest of the numbers make up for that.

Maybe its not fair to remove games against sub 100 opponents, but since JjJ has only played against top 55 teams since his benching, it was the only way I knew to make it fair.

For the record, I hate doing this. I hate that in order to prove a point that is obvious to 99% of people that I must tear down one of our own players.

JjJ has struggled against top competition. He devours weak competition. I am hoping that his last two games are a sign that he is getting better. The afterburners that kid has are just plain sick. It is disgusting how fast he can get from one end of the court to the other. If he can keep working on the rest of his game, he will be one helluva player.

Of course, the benching may have nothing to do with his improvement. That is an educated guess of mine. I still hold that I am happy to have a coach that has the balls to bench a player who isn't living up to his expectations. I also love having a player like JjJ who is willing to work to rise to those expectations after being called out on them.

[forgetful]

So was Wojo riding JJJ in the Ohio State game because he was playing so well?  What about NJIT?  Was he riding him again there because he was playing so well?  If Wojo rides JJJ when he's playing well, why did he limit him to 15 minutes against Tennessee?  You could say perhaps the DePaul game too.

Those were both early in the year, when Wojo was trying to figure out what he had on the team and give everybody a chance to prove themselves that was performing in practice.

The Tennessee game, JJJ played well, but Duane played out of his damn mind.  JJJ got every minute of playing time when Carlino and Duane needed a rest.  You are not going to sit Carlino, and you are also not going to sit the player who went of for 30 (Duane).  JJJ played well, but was the 3rd best option that game.  A trend that continued.

[onepost]

Still would like any of the usual head coach slurpers - TAMU, Sultan, OnePost, 82, LIghthouse84 - to actually disprove my points made:

I am by no means a "slurper" for Wojo, Ners.  There have certainly been instances where his coaching has been frustrating.  Us staying with man-to-man for far too long in the beginning of the year (especially against UNO when we were getting burned) given our lack of depth and size (until Luke came in) and him directing the guys to take the air out of the ball after the under-4 timeout against DePaul, Butler, other games we couldn't close when we had a lead are two big instances that pop out for me.  But he has shown the ability to adapt and change.  He took his experience with Boeheim and Team USA and installed a zone defense that has been VERY solid for most of the year.  Yesterday, when our guys were passing up 3-on-1 and 4-on-2 opportunities late, Wojo called a TO and demanded that they keep being aggressive and take it to the hoop when we break their press.  And sure enough, JJJ did just that a couple possessions later and dished to Steve for a big dunk.  And luckily we held on in the end.  That, to me, is very encouraging.  That he made some mistakes early in the year and changed for the better as the season went on.

He's a first year head coach coaching a team he did not recruit.  All of our deficiencies have been beaten into the ground, but the short of it is that we just aren't that good this year talent-wise.  I've already addressed the transfers so I'm not even going to touch on that again (because I know you love bringing up that Mayo and Deonte were talented guys on this team at the start of the year, which is certainly fair, but Wojo building our positive culture from scratch to me is of more importance than keeping talented guys who don't fit in for their own reasons).  But I have been very impressed with our product on the court given our major limitations.  I ask myself, "Could I see Buzz getting this kind of effort and competition every single game (sans Nova) from this same team?", and I don't think I could whatsoever.  Even though we have lost so many games late that we either had in the bag or couldn't get over the hump down the stretch, I love the fight from this team and how close we have been all year.

The only reason I may have come across as a "slurper" for Wojo is because Texas Western was spewing awful garbage about Wojo and our program's culture that I know to be 100% untrue because I know people who are right there with him every day.  And being a former manager myself, I was able to add that the culture I experienced was terrible compared to what Wojo vowed to change from Day 1.  As a current MU student and diehard fan of our program, I could not sit back and let someone blast our coaches and how far we've come as a program in such a short amount of time, when I know how much good is being done.  I've been critical of Wojo and our young staff/team when it's warranted, but overall, I think he is a good man, a genuine man (something Buzz can never say), a fantastic recruiter who parents and players alike can trust, and will become a phenomenal head coach here.  But there are growing pains in any process such as this and I have been pleased with how he has handled such growing pains.

[MU B2002]

 Did Derrick earn his 40 yesterday?  Seriously, let's hear it.  Did he? I see a guy, like Burton, who instead probably wonders WTF do I need to do to get more minutes, when the guy in front of me seemingly doesn't do jack on the floor but keeps getting max minutes.

Dude, just unnatural carnal knowledgeing give it up.  Burton is gone.  What he was, used to be, or could have been is irrelevant.  He also wasn't "behind" Derrick.  Who else do you want Wojo to give some of Derrick's minutes to, the walk-ons?


I am also getting sick of the "if JJJ is here next year" crap that you continually throw out there.   If he leaves because Wojo was "too tough" on him so be it.   

[mu-rara]

I am also getting sick of the "if JJJ is here next year" crap that you continually throw out there.   If he leaves because Wojo was "too tough" on him so be it.   

It looks like JjJ is manning up and listening and learning "the Wojo way", as opposed to pussing out and whining, "the Ners way". 

I hope he continues growing and has a great MU career.

[NersEllenson]

Dude, just unnatural carnal knowledgeing give it up.  Burton is gone.  What he was, used to be, or could have been is irrelevant.  He also wasn't "behind" Derrick.  Who else do you want Wojo to give some of Derrick's minutes to, the walk-ons?


I am also getting sick of the "if JJJ is here next year" crap that you continually throw out there.   If he leaves because Wojo was "too tough" on him so be it.   

Let me just get this straight:  So when select posters continue and don't stop with the whole notion that players such as JJJ - and formerly Burton and Dawson - need to "earn" their time - it's totally off limits for me to ask a simple question about what Derrick does after certain games to "earn" his time?

You (and others) clearly failed to understand what roster options were available for Wojo to play to begin this season.  Carlino or Duane could handle the point.  Whichever one wasn't designated the primary PG, would be at the 2.  You could play JJJ as your third guard.  Burton could have been played at the bottom of the zone we used early in non-con play.  You'd think Wojo would have known better, but Derrick is his favorite player on the team.  And sometimes favorites get preferential treatment.  Sadly it got in the way of winning more games this year.

And PS:  It's possible the walk ons could have provided the same type of numbers against Seton Hall.  

So please - to you and the rest of your misguided friends here - unnatural carnal knowledgeing give it up.  

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

So was Wojo riding JJJ in the Ohio State game because he was playing so well?  What about NJIT?  Was he riding him again there because he was playing so well?  If Wojo rides JJJ when he's playing well, why did he limit him to 15 minutes against Tennessee?  You could say perhaps the DePaul game too.

I factored in ALL of JJJ's games where he got 25+ minutes - the good games/bad games.  The stats are what they are.  13/4/2/3/2

You and your crew are doing whatever you can to try to dissect, discount, and discredit the reality of the stats.  Furthermore, you try to say JJJ's been better since the benching??  NO.  He hasn't been. Until yesterday, and perhaps Villanova - but those two games weren't anything different than his typical output when given time prior to his benching.

Personally, I don't think our players are self entitled pouters who whine when they don't get their way.  I see them being competitors and realists - and when you see guys making the same mistakes as you, yet given much longer leashes - it causes you as a player to lose confidence in the leadership of your coach.  And...typically you move on.    

I felt Buzz did an awful job last year, and that his head wasn't in the right place - and the results beared that out.  As for Wojo, he's made his fair share of mistakes this season as well.  He's a rookie head coach, so he gets a pass on some of that.  I simply feel he is/was playing Russian Roulette with JJJ by benching him - and the benching was unnecessary.  Nor do I blame JJJ being frustrated with Wojo's coaching at the time of the benching.

[NersEllenson]

It looks like JjJ is manning up and listening and learning "the Wojo way", as opposed to pussing out and whining, "the Ners way". 

I hope he continues growing and has a great MU career.

LOL.  Learning the "Wojo way?"  What's that?  When Wojo's hands are tied and he is down to 7 players and pretty much has no choice but to play JJJ - JJJ responds and gives Wojo what he's always given him from the start of the season?  Uh.  Okay

[g0lden3agle]

So if JJJ ends up transferring it will be because Wojo was playing mind games with him and benching him.  And JJJ's success is purely because of whether or not he gets the totally-not-arbitrarily-determined 25+ mpg.  The idea that JJJ could be responding to the challenges Wojo has put forth has nothing to do with the equation.  Got it.

[forgetful]

So if JJJ ends up transferring it will be because Wojo was playing mind games with him and benching him.  And JJJ's success is purely because of whether or not he gets the totally-not-arbitrarily-determined 25+ mpg.  The idea that JJJ could be responding to the challenges Wojo has put forth has nothing to do with the equation.  Got it.

Not arbitrary.  Don't cha know that Wojo hands them all a card before the game with the minutes they will play written on it.  That way they all know how hard/well to play.

[MU82]

You'd think Wojo would have known better, but Derrick is his favorite player on the team.  And sometimes favorites get preferential treatment.  Sadly it got in the way of winning more games this year.

If only Wojo knew more about basketball than a former prep superduperstar, we'd probably be 23-0 right now and the college hoops world would be asking: "Kentucky who?"

[mu-rara]

If only Wojo knew more about basketball than a former prep superduperstar, we'd probably be 23-0 right now and the college hoops world would be asking: "Kentucky who?"

Why won't he post his bona fides?  I think I know the answer.

[79Warrior]

Why won't he post his bona fides?  I think I know the answer.

Ding Ding Ding