Coach Williams is a great coach because. ..?

[Ari Gold]

Mr. Nosiak? Who's he?

?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I don't like the term mulligan in this reference.  That implies that this year's results are forgotten.  This year's team needs to be taken in context, but in order to do so one must first view his early tenure in context as well.

Maybe mulligan isn't the best term. But I would say he has earned 2-3 "bad years" before he is on the hot seat

[Class71]

The game changer and best defensive player he ever coached was always going to be his starting point guard...just like he will be next year as well.

You may be correct but if you are there will be many unhappy campers on this board which is a minor issue. A good role player but starting point? Somehow he will need to learn to shoot or more than this board will be questioning someone's judgment. ❓❔❓❔❓❔❓❔❓

[willie warrior]

Maybe mulligan isn't the best term. But I would say he has earned 2-3 "bad years" before he is on the hot seat

Man the slurping never stops. "2-3 bad years." Why? Why? He gets paid 2.5 million per year, has the 8th highest basketball budget, a jet to recruit. With those perks, his earnings are already taken care of. He gets no slack for 2-3 bad years. Some people really need to take a bite of reality.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Man the slurping never stops. "2-3 bad years." Why? Why? He gets paid 2.5 million per year, has the 8th highest basketball budget, a jet to recruit. With those perks, his earnings are already taken care of. He gets no slack for 2-3 bad years. Some people really need to take a bite of reality.

Name a single program that has ever fired a coach with Buzz's level of success after 2 bad seasons. My guess is that there might be a few blue bloods who have done it. But blue blood we are not.

What coach would ever want to work for us if they knew that after 2 bad seasons he's getting the axe, no matter the success he had before?

We didn't fire Crean after the 04-05 season, you really think we would fire Buzz?

[Blackhat]

My respect for Buzz as a coach actually grew this year.

Getting 9 wins with a D II pg and sg, uncompetitive sf, and a one trick pony pf was miraculous.

Now his recruiting......

[willie warrior]

Name a single program that has ever fired a coach with Buzz's level of success after 2 bad seasons. My guess is that there might be a few blue bloods who have done it. But blue blood we are not.

What coach would ever want to work for us if they knew that after 2 bad seasons he's getting the axe, no matter the success he had before?

We didn't fire Crean after the 04-05 season, you really think we would fire Buzz?

Nobody deserves to be allowed 2-3 bad years. You are already setting up foe next year. If so that will be two. Then what? Keep kissing the heiny?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Nobody deserves to be allowed 2-3 bad years. You are already setting up foe next year. If so that will be two. Then what? Keep kissing the heiny?

If nobody deserves 2-3 bad years after the level of success Buzz has had then you should have no problem answering my question.

Please name a program that has fired a coach who has had the same level of success as Buzz after 2 bad seasons.

[mattyv1908]

If nobody deserves 2-3 bad years after the level of success Buzz has had then you should have no problem answering my question.

Please name a program that has fired a coach who has had the same level of success as Buzz after 2 bad seasons.

TAMU, let's not pretend like Buzz has done anything fantastic.  He's been to a couple of sweet 16's and an elite 8.

He absolutely should not be fired, but if he were to miss the NCAAT next season his seat should begin to heat up.

I'll clarify.  His team has played to their NCAA seed line twice, twice he exceeded it and once he failed to reach it.  His team's average seed in his five trips to the NCAAT has been a 7 seed.  Those are not fantastic numbers.  Good but not great.

[chapman]

He absolutely should not be fired, but if he were to miss the NCAAT next season his seat should begin to heat up.

Sounds fair to me.  If it ever got to three craptacular seasons in a row, the program spends way too much money these days to be that bad.  Hell, we were on at least one "worst ROI" list as recently as last year due to all the money pumped into the program.  Nobody had issue since we felt our success was pretty good, even if it was disproportionately poor given our investment relative to other programs. 

[Stretchdeltsig]

I too was very impressed with Buzz as a coach the first five years.  But, this year has been so frustrating that I question his logic as a coach.  He has made huge blunders and poor decisions on players' playing times and it seems that he has impeded player development.  I am totally puzzled by Buzz's poor performance this year.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

TAMU, let's not pretend like Buzz has done anything fantastic.  He's been to a couple of sweet 16's and an elite 8.

He absolutely should not be fired, but if he were to miss the NCAAT next season his seat should begin to heat up.

2nd line I agree with. I said 2-3 bad years before being fired. 2 bad years in a row=seat heating up a little. 3=potentially fired.

1st line I don't. 2 Sweet 16s and an Elite 8 is huge for a program like ours. This isn't the 70s anymore. Before Buzz we had Crean's Final Four and what? 2 Sweet 16s and an Elite 8 is a huge accomplishment in a three year span. Plus, Buzz's first 5 years in the BEast featured us going 60-30 in conference play. That was the BEST RECORD IN THE BEAST DURING THOSE 5 YEARS. Put simply, he did better than Boeheim, Pitino, Calhoun, Brey, Dixon, Wright, JT3, etc could during those 5 years. That is extremely impressive.

We are not at a Blue Blood. We cannot turn up our nose at a 5 year span that included 5 tournament appearances, 3 sweet sixteens, 1 elite 8, and BEast regular season championship and say it "wasn't anything fantastic."

Expectations. Keep them realistic. (To clarify, Buzz did not meet my expectations for this season. So he is not infallible. But so for he is 5-1 on meeting my season expectations so I'm willing to stick with him)

[leever]

I don't know if Buzz is a great coach.

Heading into this year, I thought he was an upgrade over Crean for three reasons:
--He's a better person (see Buzz's Bunch)
--He's a better recruiter
--He makes better in-game and halftime adjustments

The jury is still out on his most recent recruits.  Potential is still there, but some have not panned out yet.  You can't foresee injuries, but what the hell happened with JJJ?

Not overjoyed with the in-game or halftime adjustments this year.  To say nothing of the inbounds plays.  Other teams occasionally have trouble inbounding, but not with the regularity that I see with MU.

The players had a bad year, the coach and assistants had a bad year.  Very disappointing.  But I'd still take Buzz over Crean any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

[MUfan12]

Not overjoyed with the in-game or halftime adjustments this year.  To say nothing of the inbounds plays.  Other teams occasionally have trouble inbounding, but not with the regularity that I see with MU.

A lot of those issues, especially at the end of games, comes from having a sub-50% FT shooter at point guard. You have to hide him somewhere, so he inbounds the ball. He's short, so a big guarding the pass makes it very difficult.

[willie warrior]

2nd line I agree with. I said 2-3 bad years before being fired. 2 bad years in a row=seat heating up a little. 3=potentially fired.

1st line I don't. 2 Sweet 16s and an Elite 8 is huge for a program like ours. This isn't the 70s anymore. Before Buzz we had Crean's Final Four and what? 2 Sweet 16s and an Elite 8 is a huge accomplishment in a three year span. Plus, Buzz's first 5 years in the BEast featured us going 60-30 in conference play. That was the BEST RECORD IN THE BEAST DURING THOSE 5 YEARS. Put simply, he did better than Boeheim, Pitino, Calhoun, Brey, Dixon, Wright, JT3, etc could during those 5 years. That is extremely impressive.

We are not at a Blue Blood. We cannot turn up our nose at a 5 year span that included 5 tournament appearances, 3 sweet sixteens, 1 elite 8, and BEast regular season championship and say it "wasn't anything fantastic."

Expectations. Keep them realistic. (To clarify, Buzz did not meet my expectations for this season. So he is not infallible. But so for he is 5-1 on meeting my season expectations so I'm willing to stick with him)

The runs are only huge to this year. This year completely wipes out the past. Would not say that if we had made the dance. But the worse record in 13 years and closing out with 4 straight losses to 17-15 is where we are at, so please forget about talking about what Buzz did before. What the hell did he do this year?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

The runs are only huge to this year. This year completely wipes out the past. Would not say that if we had made the dance. But the worse record in 13 years and closing out with 4 straight losses to 17-15 is where we are at, so please forget about talking about what Buzz did before. What the hell did he do this year?

Willie, you have yet to answer my question. Please name a program that has fired a coach who has had the same amount of success as Buzz after two bad seasons.

Again, I think you may be able to find a blue blood who has done it. But I really think the list will be extremely small.

But I've asked twice and you haven't had an answer. All I've heard is "one more bad season and he should should be fired." I'm beginning to think you can't find one. If that's the case, why the hell would Marquette do something that no other program would do?

And I can find you plenty of examples of coaches who have had awful seasons who have recovered and been fine the next.

[Lennys Tap]

I'll clarify.  His team has played to their NCAA seed line twice, twice he exceeded it and once he failed to reach it.  His team's average seed in his five trips to the NCAAT has been a 7 seed.  Those are not fantastic numbers.  Good but not great.

This simplistic statement is very disappointing coming from a stats guy like you. Last year we had roughly a 10% chance to make the Elite 8. 2012 about a 38% chance to reach the Sweet 16. 2011 about a 14% chance to reach the Sweet 16. Three years with his own players that's a far cry better than good.

Years one and two (with TC's holdovers) he won the game he was favored in (Utah St) and lost as a dog (Missouri) and as a pick em (Washington).

[mattyv1908]

This simplistic statement is very disappointing coming from a stats guy like you. Last year we had roughly a 10% chance to make the Elite 8. 2012 about a 38% chance to reach the Sweet 16. 2011 about a 14% chance to reach the Sweet 16. Three years with his own players that's a far cry better than good.

Years one and two (with TC's holdovers) he won the game he was favored in (Utah St) and lost as a dog (Missouri) and as a pick em (Washington).

Lenny, how is a 6-11 matchup a pick em game?  That's not factual in any way.

And my comment needs to be taken in context of who it was sent to.  That's not saying anything bad about TAMU, as I really like him as a poster, it's just that he has a way about verbalizing things in the rosiest way possible.

I understand upsets in the NCAAT happen (see Georgetown), but playing to seed line really is the bench mark when looking at tournament success for a given year.  In that area Buzz is +1 in five trips to the tournament.

I think the elite 8 is an accomplishment, but what I wouldn't label anything Buzz has done in the tournament as special unless that included a final four.

A sweet 16 is my benchmark to a successful season.

A final four is my benchmark to a truly great year.

And while I do think Willie can be negative, he makes a point in regards to the amount of money the school spends on its basketball program.  The university doesn't spend like a school thrilled to just make the tournament.  We shouldn't have less expectations than the university.

But no Buzz should not be fired.  If he misses the NCAAT next year I'd think the seat should begin heating up and rightfully so.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

And my comment needs to be taken in context of who it was sent to.  That's not saying anything bad about TAMU, as I really like him as a poster, it's just that he has a way about verbalizing things in the rosiest way possible.

I've been called worse

A sweet 16 is my benchmark to a successful season.

A final four is my benchmark to a truly great year.

So in your opinion, Marquette has had 16 successful seasons, 11 of which occurred before the tournament expanded to 64. And only 3 truly great ones 2 of which occurred before the tournament expanded to 64. And by extension we have had 50+ unsuccessful seasons.

I didn't realize our basketball program was 16-60 in terms of being successful in a season.

Expectations folks, have reasonable ones. Buzz has gotten us three Sweet 16s in the past four years. That's as many as the previous 32 seasons. It took 6 different coaches to get those three sweet sixteens. Buzz got them himself. He has earned a bad season. It happens to every coach.

Getting to the Sweet 16 is not easy and is certainly not a reasonable standard on which to judge the season.

[mattyv1908]

I've been called worse

So in your opinion, Marquette has had 16 successful seasons, 11 of which occurred before the tournament expanded to 64. And only 3 truly great ones 2 of which occurred before the tournament expanded to 64. And by extension we have had 50+ unsuccessful seasons.

I didn't realize our basketball program was 16-60 in terms of being successful in a season.

Expectations folks, have reasonable ones. Buzz has gotten us three Sweet 16s in the past four years. That's as many as the previous 32 seasons. It took 6 different coaches to get those three sweet sixteens. Buzz got them himself. He has earned a bad season. It happens to every coach.

Getting to the Sweet 16 is not easy and is certainly not a reasonable standard on which to judge the season.

I'm not being disrespectful at all.  I enjoy your posts.

The round of 16 separates the men from the boys.

Please don't ignore the first time I've ever posted something crediting Willie.  Marquette spends a lot of money on mens basketball.  More money than to simply be happy with winning seasons and early exits from the tournament.  Perhaps you should align your expectations with the dollars spent on the program as there appears to be a disconnect.

Perhaps the money spent on the program indicates that those spending the money have greater expectations for the program and therefore the bar is higher than you currently see it.  Could that possibly be the case?

[willie warrior]

Willie, you have yet to answer my question. Please name a program that has fired a coach who has had the same amount of success as Buzz after two bad seasons.

Again, I think you may be able to find a blue blood who has done it. But I really think the list will be extremely small.

But I've asked twice and you haven't had an answer. All I've heard is "one more bad season and he should should be fired." I'm beginning to think you can't find one. If that's the case, why the hell would Marquette do something that no other program would do?

And I can find you plenty of examples of coaches who have had awful seasons who have recovered and been fine the next.

Slurp, slurp. I have never said fire him. I do not get the Hosannas you and others throw at the guy, especially after such an abysmal season. Look at the salary, perks and resources the guy has. This season was not even average.

You are the one that keeps looking for a reason to fire him. I am looking for a decent season, not the crap job Buzz did this year. And all the excuses in China offer nothing for this year, other than he did not coach to the expectations or what he is receiving--which is not a good ROI.

[WarriorFan]

OK, who, that MU could realistically land for similar money is BETTER?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Slurp, slurp. I have never said fire him. I do not get the Hosannas you and others throw at the guy, especially after such an abysmal season. Look at the salary, perks and resources the guy has. This season was not even average.

You are the one that keeps looking for a reason to fire him. I am looking for a decent season, not the crap job Buzz did this year. And all the excuses in China offer nothing for this year, other than he did not coach to the expectations or what he is receiving--which is not a good ROI.

Got it, you can't name one

[ChicosBailBonds]

Coach Williams is a very good coach because..?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I'm not being disrespectful at all.  I enjoy your posts.

I honestly didn't think you were. Your "rosy" comment actually made me smile. And I am well aware of my status as the board optimist.

Please don't ignore the first time I've ever posted something crediting Willie.  Marquette spends a lot of money on mens basketball.  More money than to simply be happy with winning seasons and early exits from the tournament.  Perhaps you should align your expectations with the dollars spent on the program as there appears to be a disconnect.

Perhaps the money spent on the program indicates that those spending the money have greater expectations for the program and therefore the bar is higher than you currently see it.  Could that possibly be the case?

I wouldn't ignore anything Willie says. When he doesn't get sidetracked by telling everyone to go slurp something, he is a very solid poster.

I agree that the money spent is a good indicator of expectations. What I don't agree with is using the singular use of the Sweet 16 as a benchmark. This is not how athletic departments operate.

Coaches and ADs make a list of goals at the beginning of the season. They make goals that are unrealistic to teams to. For example, I know for a fact that Buzz writes win the national championship on every goal list.

These list are long and include things like: Get to the Sweet Sixteen, make the NCAA tourney, win the BEast tourney, win the BEast regular season, finish in the top half of the conference, have a 20 win season, beat Wisconsin, win our holiday tournament, recruit a strong freshmen class, represent the university well, etc.

ADs judge coaches on all these things when determining a successful season. Unfortunately this season, Buzz failed to complete most of these goals. It was a bad season. But it was his first.

You asked me to think about the money. Looking at the top 25 paid coaches, 6 of them were in the BEast with Buzz for the first 5 seasons. The fact that Buzz's 60-30 conference record during that stretch is better than every single one of them, including Pitino who makes almost twice as much as BUzz, tells me that he is giving us plenty of ROI. Buzz pays for himself. Donations and admission have been at an all time high during his coaching tenure.