Wade Posterized!!

[buckchuckler]

So it is ok to cheat or break the rules in some circumstances but not others?  There is no such thing as selective integrity, you either have it and deserve respect for it or you don't and deserve nothing.  Hate is a pretty strong word for what I feel about Derrick Rose but I don't think much of him and all the other things you describe above aren't going to change that. 

So Im guessing you never speed, roll stop signs, or J walk, because that's breaking the law, and you wouldn't want to be accused of having selective integrity, right?  Its crap that the league makes guys go to school to protect themselves from their own stupidity.  And if that's really the reason you hate him, do you even watch the NBA or NFL?  Those leagues have to be just bursting with guys you hate.

[buckchuckler]

And seriously, he was an 18 year old kid.  Would you want to be judged for the rest of your life for any of the things you did when you were 18?

And for the role model bit, he has done so much good that the test is never a factor when people here think about Rose.  He is a great role model for kids here to look up to.

Maybe the test is a reason to hate him, fine.  But he seems like a great humble kid that plays hard all the time, respects the game, listens to his coach, keeps his teammates in line, and is exactly the kind of player that I can really enjoy cheering for.

[brewcity77]

So Im guessing you never speed, roll stop signs, or J walk, because that's breaking the law, and you wouldn't want to be accused of having selective integrity, right?  Its crap that the league makes guys go to school to protect themselves from their own stupidity.  And if that's really the reason you hate him, do you even watch the NBA or NFL?  Those leagues have to be just bursting with guys you hate.

Personally, I stopped watching the NFL for that reason. It started with Vick, but looking around, it just seems like that sport breeds thugs and miscreants. From Carruth to Ray Lewis to Chris Henry to Roethlisburger to Tank Johnson to Pac-Man to Plaxico to Stallworth...the list goes on.

Other sports have their idiots and bad guys, but it seems there isn't a team in the NFL that doesn't have 2-3 guys I really can't stand to watch. And while Rose may have blatantly cheated on an exam, it's not like he's a rapist, murderer, or accessory to the fact. He was never carrying around a gun (that we know of). Yes, what he did was bad, but to try to say he's some horrible individual because he cheated on a test when probably every person on this site has cheated on a quiz or test (granted not to that level) seems pretty hypocritical. Save your rage for someone who's actually a bad guy, not someone who cheated on a test just so he could keep up his game for a year before they'd let him play in the pros.

[MU B2002]

If anyone is to blame for the issue with Rose and his tests it is the NBA.  Rose and many like him had no business in college basketball.  He was good enough to go straight to the NBA after high school and should have been allowed to do so.  By making players spend 1 year in college you are asking for these types of situations: illegal test results, cash payments, housing deals for parents, cars, etc.

[Pakuni]

And seriously, he was an 18 year old kid.  Would you want to be judged for the rest of your life for any of the things you did when you were 18?

An 18-year-old kid, it's worth noting, who had the weight of having to raise his entire family out of a gang- and crime-ridden neighborhood on his shoulders, we should add. If it cheating on an SAT is what it takes to get my family out of a place like Englewood a year (or more) sooner, I'd cheat also.
I don't think anybody suggests cheating is a good thing, but in this case it's a victimless offense and forgivable, if not outright excusable, under the circumstances.

[Pakuni]

If anyone is to blame for the issue with Rose and his tests it is the NBA.  Rose and many like him had no business in college basketball.  He was good enough to go straight to the NBA after high school and should have been allowed to do so.  By making players spend 1 year in college you are asking for these types of situations: illegal test results, cash payments, housing deals for parents, cars, etc.

+1.
Not to mention that it makes a complete mockery of the supposed student-athlete. Many one-and-dones go to class in the fall just enough to stay eligible for the second semester, and then never see the inside of a classroom again.

[Abode4life]

+1.
Not to mention that it makes a complete mockery of the supposed student-athlete. Many one-and-dones go to class in the fall just enough to stay eligible for the second semester, and then never see the inside of a classroom again.

I think there are a lot bigger problems that make a mockery of student athletes.  Honestly, how many one and dones are there a year?  Also, who is to say that a player who isn't good enough right out of high school but is good enough to go after their sophomore or junior year isn't going to do the same thing?

[Henry Sugar]

Since we're talking student athletes...

Did Lazar ever graduate?  Anyone know if Jimmy F. Butler stopped going to classes?

[brewcity77]

Since we're talking student athletes...

Did Lazar ever graduate?  Anyone know if Jimmy F. Butler stopped going to classes?

Not sure if he walked, but I'm pretty sure someone said Lazar's name was in the program last year. Not 100% on that. And JFB finished his requirements in the Fall semester. Even if he stopped going to classes, he had the credits to graduate.

[RawdogDX]

how old and crotchety are you?

Chalk me up as unimpressed with those dunks.

The "posterize" dunk .. the only reason we're talking about it is because Wade was between the guy and the basket.   Yes, 90% of posterizing someone is timing. If Wade wasn't there, But He was there. it was the kind of dunk you see with frequency: a running guy takes off from 6-8 feet away, jumps high, and dunks.   What dunk doesn't that describe? Why does it make it awesome when you insert an unprepared defender in the middle, who is run into? 1) Because it doesn't happen very often. 2) It just does.

I'd say the tip dunk is .. nicer, as it adds an element of perfect timing of a jump, a rebound, perfect placement of a hand and enough hang time to bring the ball to the rim. 

I find dunks over-rated.  The level of difficulty of a bang bang catch and shoot 3 pointer with a guy in your face is so much higher.  Or a Dominic James drive the lane crash to the floor circus shot that goes in.  Well start a "Wade Hits 3 with Hand in his Face" thread.  People will love it!

[Lennys Tap]

If anyone is to blame for the issue with Rose and his tests it is the NBA.  Rose and many like him had no business in college basketball.  He was good enough to go straight to the NBA after high school and should have been allowed to do so.  By making players spend 1 year in college you are asking for these types of situations: illegal test results, cash payments, housing deals for parents, cars, etc.

I will agree with you that the rule governing early entry into the NBA is wrong. If they're good enough, players should be able to turn pro whenever.

That said, there are many rules/laws in life that people might consider unfair. Committing fraud in order to circumvent them is wrong.

[Hards Alumni]

If anyone is to blame for the issue with Rose and his tests it is the NBA.  Rose and many like him had no business in college basketball.  He was good enough to go straight to the NBA after high school and should have been allowed to do so.  By making players spend 1 year in college you are asking for these types of situations: illegal test results, cash payments, housing deals for parents, cars, etc.

This is such a poor argument.  This is like blaming the guy who sold a robber the gun for the crime he went and committed. 

Rose had a choice to follow the rules or not, and he chose not to.  What I find truly hypocritical of you Bulls fans that defend him, but rip apart John Cal in another thread.  I give Brandon Jennings a lot of respect for doing it the way that guys like Rose SHOULD HAVE done.  If you can't get into school, go play in Europe for a year.

I know he is your boy, but don't give me that crap that he is innocent.

[mu_hilltopper]

how old and crotchety are you?

...said the young and easily impressed.   

[MU B2002]

This is such a poor argument.  This is like blaming the guy who sold a robber the gun for the crime he went and committed. 

Rose had a choice to follow the rules or not, and he chose not to.  What I find truly hypocritical of you Bulls fans that defend him, but rip apart John Cal in another thread.  I give Brandon Jennings a lot of respect for doing it the way that guys like Rose SHOULD HAVE done.  If you can't get into school, go play in Europe for a year.

I know he is your boy, but don't give me that crap that he is innocent.

My boy!?  That's like saying Fat Tire is your beer.
 
I never said he wasinnocent.  I believe the NBA has a policy that helped to create this type of situation, but that doesn't mean I think what Rose did is ok. 


Heat fan.
Can't stand the bulls.

[Hards Alumni]

My boy!?  That's like saying Fat Tire is your beer.
 
I never said he wasinnocent.  I believe the NBA has a policy that helped to create this type of situation, but that doesn't mean I think what Rose did is ok. 


Heat fan.
Can't stand the bulls.

I apologize, I should have formatted that better.  The last line wasn't intended for you specifically, it was for all the Bulls fans here.

I understand the policy is bad (should be 3 years out of High School, imo), but that does not absolve Rose of wrong doing.  You said if anyone was to blame it was the NBA... which is not what you are saying now?

[Pakuni]

This is such a poor argument.  This is like blaming the guy who sold a robber the gun for the crime he went and committed.

Speaking of poor arguments ...
To the best of my knowledge, selling someone a gun does not create a set of circumstances requiring its purchaser to commit a robbery.
This discriminatory rule, however, does force kids who lack the interest and/or aptitude to go to college into a situation by which doing what Rose did can be the best and most reasonable option.

Nobody in this entire thread has said or even suggested he is "innocent." What's suggested, however, at least by me, is that under his circumstances, it was a completely reasonable and rational thing to do. You'll forgive me if I don't rip an 18-year-old trying to get himself and his family out of the ghetto for -gasp! - cheating on an irrelevant standardized test (in, I'll note again, was a completely victimless "crime.")
I'm frankly pretty surprised some people think a poorly thought out NCAA rule matters more than a person's (and family's) well-being and an individual's right to earn a legal living in his own country.

[MU B2002]

You said if anyone was to blame it was the NBA... which is not what you are saying now?

My initial post said
"If anyone is to blame for the issue with Rose and his tests it is the NBA."

My second post said
"I believe the NBA has a policy that helped to create this type of situation, but that doesn't mean I think what Rose did is ok."


I maintained the same position that I felt the NBA created the situation.  My second post just added that I felt what Rose did was wrong.

Anyway, it is kind of a meaningless argument at this point, since according to history Rose never played in college. 

[Hards Alumni]

Speaking of poor arguments ...
To the best of my knowledge, selling someone a gun does not create a set of circumstances requiring its purchaser to commit a robbery.
This discriminatory rule, however, does force kids who lack the interest and/or aptitude to go to college into a situation by which doing what Rose did can be the best and most reasonable option.

Nobody in this entire thread has said or even suggested he is "innocent." What's suggested, however, at least by me, is that under his circumstances, it was a completely reasonable and rational thing to do. You'll forgive me if I don't rip an 18-year-old trying to get himself and his family out of the ghetto for -gasp! - cheating on an irrelevant standardized test (in, I'll note again, was a completely victimless "crime.")
I'm frankly pretty surprised some people think a poorly thought out NCAA rule matters more than a person's (and family's) well-being and an individual's right to earn a legal living in his own country.

Pakuni, it was an analogy... It was used to prove a point which it did.

But I am just happy to understand what is accceptable cheating and what isn't for you.  He had options, which he weighed, and chose to cheat.  I'm sure there would have been 50 teams in Europe tripping over themselves to have Rose on their team.  If you think its fine and dandy that he cheated thats fine.  I just think it speaks to his character, and everyone else seems to think it is irrelevant.  I'm not looking to change the minds of people who have their minds made up already anyway.

He is a cheat in my book and always will be.

and MU B2002, I was asking a legitimate question, I wasn't trying to be sarcastic.  Just to be clear, you are saying they are both to blame now.  Thats fine, and I agree.  But lets be clear; the NCAA and NBA has a set of rules (flawed as they may be) and Rose ignored them.

[StillAWarrior]

Speaking of poor arguments ...
To the best of my knowledge, selling someone a gun does not create a set of circumstances requiring its purchaser to commit a robbery.
This discriminatory rule, however, does force kids who lack the interest and/or aptitude to go to college into a situation by which doing what Rose did can be the best and most reasonable option.

Nobody in this entire thread has said or even suggested he is "innocent." What's suggested, however, at least by me, is that under his circumstances, it was a completely reasonable and rational thing to do. You'll forgive me if I don't rip an 18-year-old trying to get himself and his family out of the ghetto for -gasp! - cheating on an irrelevant standardized test (in, I'll note again, was a completely victimless "crime.")
I'm frankly pretty surprised some people think a poorly thought out NCAA rule matters more than a person's (and family's) well-being and an individual's right to earn a legal living in his own country.

It's not like Rose is the first or last kid since the NBA implemented the silly one-and-done rule who wanted to "get himself and his family out the ghetto."  Many others have managed to take the test (sometimes repeatedly) and get a passing score.  Rose chose a different approach.  I like the kid, and I'm not arguing that his decision wasn't "completely reasonable and rational," but he did cheat.  Many other kids faced with precisely the same situation, as unjust as it might be, have chosen to not compromise their integrity (although I'm sure there are many who we don't know about).  Don't misunderstand, I'm really not ripping the kid, but I really don't believe that he made a "this is the only way to get my family out of the ghetto" decision.  He took the easy way out, and that comes with a price (a fairly slight blemish on his reputation).  I suspect he's not losing any sleep over that "price," and I'm not losing any over what he did.

[buckchuckler]

This is such a poor argument.  This is like blaming the guy who sold a robber the gun for the crime he went and committed. 

Rose had a choice to follow the rules or not, and he chose not to.  What I find truly hypocritical of you Bulls fans that defend him, but rip apart John Cal in another thread.  I give Brandon Jennings a lot of respect for doing it the way that guys like Rose SHOULD HAVE done.  If you can't get into school, go play in Europe for a year.

I know he is your boy, but don't give me that crap that he is innocent.

The Calipari analogy is just as bad as your gun analogy.  Calapari has a history of cheating. As pakuni pointed out, doesn't have the same situation around him as Rose.  Calapari is also in a different position from Rose.  Cal could also likely do just fine without the cheating.  Where for Rose the only other option for Rose was to move half way around the world.  Wow, I can't believe someone wouldn't want to jump to do that. 

[brewcity77]

I'm a Bulls fan and feel Rose's misdeeds in college (rather getting in to) were pretty well addressed when Memphis' season was stricken from the books. When you look at how he's carried himself since joining the Bulls, there's little to question.

It's not like he was an accessory to murder or tortured animals. For me, Rose's misdeeds were simply a lot more forgiveable. Especially when you balance his actions since college with the one act to get him in.

[Hards Alumni]

The Calipari analogy is just as bad as your gun analogy.  Calapari has a history of cheating. As pakuni pointed out, doesn't have the same situation around him as Rose.  Calapari is also in a different position from Rose.  Cal could also likely do just fine without the cheating.  Where for Rose the only other option for Rose was to move half way around the world.  Wow, I can't believe someone wouldn't want to jump to do that.  

Fairly hard for you know anything about Rose's past, and there is a lot of time to go in his future.

How about this for an analogy.  You lie on your resume to get an internship, and because of that internship, you get a great job.  You've been good at your paying job and haven't lied since, does that make it okay?

The only other option?  What a joke.  Try hard in school.  He isn't that dumb.  He knew he could get away with it, and he did.  No punishment for him.  He could have done the honorable thing and played in Europe if he wanted to have the honor of getting the big bucks in the NBA without getting into college.

[ATL MU Warrior]

I'm a Bulls fan and feel Rose's misdeeds in college (rather getting in to) were pretty well addressed when Memphis' season was stricken from the books. When you look at how he's carried himself since joining the Bulls, there's little to question.

It's not like he was an accessory to murder or tortured animals. For me, Rose's misdeeds were simply a lot more forgiveable. Especially when you balance his actions since college with the one act to get him in.

How does the fact the Memphis' season was stricken from the books punish anybody but Memphis and the kids on the team that actually tried to do the right thing?  Absolutely nothing to do with Rose.  He got off scott free.

[ChicosBailBonds]

And seriously, he was an 18 year old kid.  Would you want to be judged for the rest of your life for any of the things you did when you were 18?

And for the role model bit, he has done so much good that the test is never a factor when people here think about Rose.  He is a great role model for kids here to look up to.

Maybe the test is a reason to hate him, fine.  But he seems like a great humble kid that plays hard all the time, respects the game, listens to his coach, keeps his teammates in line, and is exactly the kind of player that I can really enjoy cheering for.

If he played for the Heat, Pistons, Lakers, anyone not named Bulls would you have a different POV?  More than likely, yes....and that's what you are seeing and hearing about here.  People love to defend "their city's guy" and let bygones be bygones. 

18 years old or not, when you know some guy NOT named Derrick Rose is sitting in a classroom somewhere taking a test and writing DERRICK ROSE on the test for you, that's a pretty big deal to just excuse because he was 18 years old.  My 9 year old knows that's wrong, an 18 year old sure as hell does. 

You say he's a good role model...is he out telling kids they shouldn't cheat on their standardized tests?  Wasn't he just as much a role model for those kids looking to skirt the system....HEY, Derrick Rose did it why shouldn't I!!

Works both ways.   I'd love to see Rose come out and go to schools and tell kids to take the tests for real, and not pay someone else to do it for them.  If he is, hats off to him but I haven't read where that's part of any of his role model playing.

[brewcity77]

If he played for the Heat, Pistons, Lakers, anyone not named Bulls would you have a different POV?  More than likely, yes....and that's what you are seeing and hearing about here.  People love to defend "their city's guy" and let bygones be bygones. 

18 years old or not, when you know some guy NOT named Derrick Rose is sitting in a classroom somewhere taking a test and writing DERRICK ROSE on the test for you, that's a pretty big deal to just excuse because he was 18 years old.  My 9 year old knows that's wrong, an 18 year old sure as hell does.

I'm sorry, but when you look at what other athletes are out there doing and when you look at what Rose did, I just don't get how people can have this much venom for him. Yes, he did something wrong to get into college, but people are acting like he raped someone or was involved in a shooting.

You may not like applying "model citizen" as a tag to someone, but it sure seems easy to attach the villain tag. Save it for someone who actually did something worthy of being considered a crime, like Roethlisburger, Vick, Burress, or Arenas. Yeah, he screwed up, it was wrong, he shouldn't have done it, but since he came to Chicago, you couldn't ask for much more in a superstar. Is it so wrong to try to judge him by his actions now rather than by his actions then?