Respect

[wadesworld]

I know this is going to end up political and/or ugly but I don’t really care.

Between the response to the Kaepernick ad and the Trayvon Martin TV series it needs to be said.

So sheild your eyes and scream BeeJay.

You can admit an issue with racial injustices AND support the people who serve and protect our country and our streets. You can even disagree with how a person addresses those needs without throwing disrespect back at its face. That’s what this world needs. Respectful, constructive discussion, not mocking recreations. The fact that the response to Nike’s ad is “Boycott Nike!” or to go makes mocking image of it against Colin Kaepernick just proves Colin Kaepernick’s point. An MPD officer should not have to worry about leaving his house for the last time as he goes off to work, JUST LIKE an African American teen shouldn’t have to be worried about not returning home from a convenience store for walking in the rain with his hood up.

Thankful for parents that instilled a foundation of respect for all human kind and opened their doors to all in need, regardless of race, sex, age, etc. I’m not going to pretend I’m perfect at it, but when all you knew growing up was the respect your parents showed to all it’s incredibly disheartening to see responses like this. My parents are going straight to Heaven. We are all human beings. Let’s start acting like it.

One love.

[GGGG]

History will treat Kaep much better than it will his detractors, including the NFL owners.  It always treats those fighting for justice better than those who are opposed.

[jesmu84]

Burning clothes, shoes, etc in a "boycott" is an interesting decision. Of course, those same people could give those items to homeless/needy vets or others in need.

[GGGG]

Burning clothes, shoes, etc in a "boycott" is an interesting decision. Of course, those same people could give those items to homeless/needy vets or others in need.

You can't own the libs by being selfless. 

[Lennys Tap]

You can admit an issue with racial injustices AND support the people who serve and protect our country and our streets. You can even disagree with how a person addresses those needs without throwing disrespect back at its face. That’s what this world needs. Respectful, constructive discussion, not mocking recreations.

Do you think Mr Kapernick wearing "Police are pigs" socks contributed/led to respectful, constructive discussion?

[GGGG]

Do you think Mr Kapernick wearing "Police are pigs" socks contributed/led to respectful, constructive discussion?

You mean a move that was taken out of context and repeated by his detractors endlessly over the past 24 months? 

No it wasn't helpful.  But it was blown out of proportion from the very beginning.  Like this entire mess has been. 

[Lennys Tap]

You mean a move that was taken out of context and repeated by his detractors endlessly over the past 24 months? 
 

Please explain how his wearing policeman as pigs socks was "taken out of context". They say what they mean and mean what they say - loudly and clearly. I think they more honestly portray Kaep's  feelings than the well scripted/stay on message speeches that have followed.

[wadesworld]

Do you think Mr Kapernick wearing "Police are pigs" socks contributed/led to respectful, constructive discussion?

Nope.  And I was totally against Kaepernick when he first stayed seated (for some reason I remember him being seated, not kneeling, for a preseason game at first before starting to kneel?) for the National Anthem.  I thought he was just being a baby about being named the backup in SF and thought it was stupid.

But the responses of hatred towards the guy are over the top and the responses to this campaign just go to show how much we are kidding ourselves if we don't think there's an issue out there.

Just like he could've gotten his message out there without those socks, people can get their message out there without spewing hate towards Kaepernick/Nike.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Do you think Mr Kapernick wearing "Police are pigs" socks contributed/led to respectful, constructive discussion?

I think that's part of wades point. Its not just a criticism of the anti-kaep side but also those who are supporting him.

Sultan is right that history will treat Kaep better,  he is fighting for justice while those burning their nikes are fighting against it. But Lenny is also correct that Kaep has not always been a good messenger.

This us vs them mentality is going to get us in a lot of trouble if it keeps going unchecked.

[GGGG]

Please explain how his wearing policeman as pigs socks was "taken out of context". They say what they mean and mean what they say - loudly and clearly. I think they more honestly portray Kaep's  feelings than the well scripted/stay on message speeches that have followed.

You can believe what you want to believe.  I said it wasn't helpful.  But it has also been blown out of proportion.  I think it's just one of those silly things that his detractors cling to.

[JWags85]

Please explain how his wearing policeman as pigs socks was "taken out of context". They say what they mean and mean what they say - loudly and clearly. I think they more honestly portray Kaep's  feelings than the well scripted/stay on message speeches that have followed.

And what do you think his "feelings" really are?

People's insistence that those who present opposing viewpoints must be perfect in order for their message to resonate baffle me.  He's been misguided at times, but those claiming he is only in this for money and fame are the same ones who plug their ears to the numerous valid and truthful responses when asked about what he's done off the field to push his message.

But I wholeheartedly agree with TAMU, the constant need to pick sides and create warring factions has zero positive outcomes.  I could even get down with "I don't like Kaep but I understand the message".  Instead its red herrings and false equivalencies galore.

[Silkk the Shaka]

Nope.  And I was totally against Kaepernick when he first stayed seated (for some reason I remember him being seated, not kneeling, for a preseason game at first before starting to kneel?) for the National Anthem.  I thought he was just being a baby about being named the backup in SF and thought it was stupid.

But the responses of hatred towards the guy are over the top and the responses to this campaign just go to show how much we are kidding ourselves if we don't think there's an issue out there.

Just like he could've gotten his message out there without those socks, people can get their message out there without spewing hate towards Kaepernick/Nike.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/veteran-kaepernick-take-a-knee-anthem/

Yep, until a military veteran suggested he kneel.


"We sorta came to a middle ground where he would take a knee alongside his teammate. Soldiers take a knee in front of a fallen brother’s grave, you know, to show respect. When we’re on a patrol, you know, and we go into a security halt, we take a knee, and we pull security."


The lengths to which the protest has been twisted as "disrespectful" is nauseating.

[Pakuni]

Please explain how his wearing policeman as pigs socks was "taken out of context". They say what they mean and mean what they say - loudly and clearly. I think they more honestly portray Kaep's  feelings than the well scripted/stay on message speeches that have followed.

[jesmu84]

Please explain how his wearing policeman as pigs socks was "taken out of context". They say what they mean and mean what they say - loudly and clearly. I think they more honestly portray Kaep's  feelings than the well scripted/stay on message speeches that have followed.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/colin-kaepernick-explains-why-he-wore-socks-with-police-pigs-on-them/

[Lennys Tap]

Nope.  And I was totally against Kaepernick when he first stayed seated (for some reason I remember him being seated, not kneeling, for a preseason game at first before starting to kneel?) for the National Anthem.  I thought he was just being a baby about being named the backup in SF and thought it was stupid.

But the responses of hatred towards the guy are over the top and the responses to this campaign just go to show how much we are kidding ourselves if we don't think there's an issue out there.

Just like he could've gotten his message out there without those socks, people can get their message out there without spewing hate towards Kaepernick/Nike.

The message - that we are still a mostly segregated (and hence unfair) society is indeed an important one. The police didn't create the mess - as Mayor Daley famously said in '68 "The police are not here to create disorder, they're here to preserve it!". Could they be more enlightened in how they carry out their mission of preserving the status quo - i.e., "law and order"? Absolutely. But the real problem is how do we change the status quo that the cops are charged with preserving and defending? In a too divided society it's important that those who are the agents of change be inclusive. Slogans ("What do we want? Dead cops! When do we want them? Now!) give pause to many who honestly want a better society. So do Cops are Pigs socks. They disqualify Kaepernick as a leader of any movement seeking to be inciusive - IMO.

[Pakuni]

You can believe what you want to believe.  I said it wasn't helpful.  But it has also been blown out of proportion.  I think it's just one of those silly things that his detractors cling to.

Yep. It allows for avoidance of any discussion or recognition of what (for many) are the uncomfortable truths surrounding the reasons for Kaepernick's protest.
And time and time again we see that many of those outraged by Kaepernick's protest are motivated by something more than respect for the flag.
http://www.timesonline.com/news/20180830/county-gop-secretary-called-black-nfl-players-baboons-in-facebook-post

[GGGG]

The message - that we are still a mostly segregated (and hence unfair) society is indeed an important one. The police didn't create the mess - as Mayor Daley famously said in '68 "The police are not here to create disorder, they're here to preserve it!". Could they be more enlightened in how they carry out their mission of preserving the status quo - i.e., "law and order"? Absolutely. But the real problem is how do we change the status quo that the cops are charged with preserving and defending? In a too divided society it's important that those who are the agents of change be inclusive. Slogans ("What do we want? Dead cops! When do we want them? Now!) give pause to many who honestly want a better society. So do Cops are Pigs socks. They disqualify Kaepernick as a leader of any movement seeking to be inciusive - IMO.

LOL.  It does not disqualify him except for those who are looking for ways to disqualify him.  And if you think only one "side" is not being inclusive here, you aren't paying attention.

[Pakuni]

So do Cops are Pigs socks. They disqualify Kaepernick as a leader of any movement seeking to be inciusive - IMO.

So in order for Kaepernick to be a leader of this movement - which he already is, and it's not your choice anyways - he must be inclusive to the very people (bad cops) he's protesting against?
Should MLK Jr. have been disqualified as a civil rights leader because he wasn't inclusive to Bull Connor and George Wallace?

[TSmith34, Inc.]

But I wholeheartedly agree with TAMU, the constant need to pick sides and create warring factions has zero positive outcomes.  I could even get down with "I don't like Kaep but I understand the message".  Instead its red herrings and false equivalencies galore.

Indeed, I agree.  Rather than discuss the issue, the flag and the military are being used as shields to avoid having any discussion at all.  The protest isn't about the anthem, and most definitely isn't about the military, but if you can somehow conflate those issues it allows you to dismiss out of hand any discussion of the actual injustice.

[Lennys Tap]

LOL.  It does not disqualify him except for those who are looking for ways to disqualify him.  And if you think only one "side" is not being inclusive here, you aren't paying attention.

Of course there are those (racists) who use Kaepernick's footwear or marcher's chants as cover for their bigotry - those folks are, sadly, a lost cause. But whether you want to concede it or not, there are a whole bunch of normal non bigots turned off by it. People receptive to the message but at odds with the messenger(s).

[Lennys Tap]

So in order for Kaepernick to be a leader of this movement - which he already is, and it's not your choice anyways - he must be inclusive to the very people (bad cops) he's protesting against?
Should MLK Jr. have been disqualified as a civil rights leader because he wasn't inclusive to Bull Connor and George Wallace?

LOL. All cops on Kaep's socks are pigs. Not some, all. MLK Jr. would NEVER have endorsed them. Bad analogy.

[mu_hilltopper]

History will treat Kaep much better than it will his detractors, including the NFL owners.  It always treats those fighting for justice better than those who are opposed.

This.  All the other stuff is noise.

[jutaw22mu]

I think Kaepernick has done well with bringing awareness to the issue of police involvement in shooting deaths of black people. 

That being said, the issue I have with the advertisement is that the tag line over the picture is a lie.  He was benched before he even started kneeling because, at the time, he was the worst ranked starting QB in the NFL.  Once no one in the NFL would take him (for one reason or another), Nike was paying him the whole time.  He hasn't sacrificed a thing.

Also, the response to the ad by burning shoes and clothes is stupid.  Donate it if you don't need it.

[Pakuni]

LOL. All cops on Kaep's socks are pigs. Not some, all. MLK Jr. would NEVER have endorsed them. Bad analogy.

You're being willfully ignorant of his explanation for the socks because it doesn't fit your narrative.

[Pakuni]

Of course there are those (racists) who use Kaepernick's footwear or marcher's chants as cover for their bigotry - those folks are, sadly, a lost cause. But whether you want to concede it or not, there are a whole bunch of normal non bigots turned off by it. People receptive to the message but at odds with the messenger(s).

Could you explain these people a bit further?
You're saying they would be on board with Kaepernick's message if someone else were delivering it?