Fr. Wild to retire in June 2011

[gumbyandpokey]

Too late, brother.

We asked you basic questions HOURS ago, and you just ran on at the mouth about "Warriors" and how Fr. Wild is an A-hole.

You can't just tack yourself onto MUeagle05's posts now. He at least brings some insight (although I may disagree).

Too late?

I'm not hanging on every word, every post 24 hrs a day....

[GGGG]

I've been thinking about this post all day, so here goes.

First of all, Fr. Wild has been a fantastic servant of MU. He's a reasonable, kind individual based on my dealings with him. And his accomplishments have been well-documented here. He certainly has had much more good than bad in his tenure. MU is certainly far better off for having him as president. He certainly deserves a standing ovation on Saturday.

That said, here would be some critiques/areas in my opinion, the next president should focus on.

The traditional/liberal Catholic debate has more to do with University bureaucracy than it does the president. He took the position, good or bad, to not get involved with the decisions of the bureaucrats. There were not many checks on them, which led to most of the issues that more traditional Catholics had a problem with.

Obviously the Gold incident was bad, and that is something that should have been kiboshed when the Indians spoke out, rather than bait people along for another 6 months. That only intensified the anger throughout the process.

I also think the plateau was coming, so to speak. There's still development going on with the Law School, Zilber, and now the engineering building. Very nice additions to campus, to be sure. But the endowment is static, if not slowly declining. It is absoutely critical to get that growing again. While again, a very nice man, Fr. Wild isn't the most dynamic speaker in the world. The checks they're getting now are from people who don't necessarily need to be moved to donate. To a degree, the next president needs to be someone who can motivate more people to pull out the checkbook.

While grateful for what Fr. Wild has done, I look at this as a huge opportunity, in a way like I saw April 2008. If the right hire is made, I think the growth of the past 15 years will be eclipsed fairly easily.

Does anyone know if MU makes the hire, or if the Provincial SJ makes the call?

The final decision is made by the BoT.  The Provincial SJ may have influence, but the Board has the final say in all governance issues.

[GGGG]

If the issue is as crucial to the Catholic identity as Abortion/Right to Life, then it does break it.  

People have mentioned a bunch of the things I was referring to earlier, basically the "cafteria catholic" issue Chicos brought up.  But there are more serious things that MUeagle discussed that really call into question what is going on at MU at times.  The MU administration looks the other way quite often when things are brought to their attention that directly contradict Church teaching.

But it's not just at MU that this is going on.  Having a true Catholic like Leahy run a university like BC is becoming a rarity these days.

See, this is what is just pure bull-sh*t.  What gives you the right to determine who is, or isn't, a "true Catholic?"  I mean, 2002MUAlum's post really laid out the issues really well - it really helped frame the discussion for me.  But your type of thinking is just so closed minded. 

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Too late?

I'm not hanging on every word, every post 24 hrs a day....

You came on here guns blazing about Wild and "warriors" and him being arrogant.

Several people called you out.

You blazed some more. (without any actual substance).

You disappear.

You magically reappear when somebody with a similar viewpoint can actually articulate his/her thoughts.

You're weak. If you want to have a bold viewpoint, be prepared to back it up... don't just wait for the Calvary to come in.

It's too late now to try to have a legitimate discussion now.

[MUBurrow]

gumby - I disagree with must of what you have said, but I do like that you posted big John McAdams' blog. As a former student, who honestly would have hated to have Catholicism more stringently enforced while I was there, I do think that Prof McAdams is a good example of MU doing a balancing act better than most schools. I think that if you look at MU as strictly Catholic, you won't be happy. But if you view the Catholic tradition as requiring MU to keep honest in terms of Conservative or Faith-based education priorities, I think it does a nice job.  Unfortunately, you can't please everyone. Prof Christopher Wolfe was an example of this. He was an outstanding conservative poli sci professor and penned one of the best books on the Constitution in recent history (an accolade given by minds much greater than my own).  Unfortunately Prof Wolfe left MU because he believed it had moved too far away from its Catholic, conservative tradition.

I don't mean to get overly political, but I think a poli sci department is a battleground for the identity of an institution, simply because you can't get away from aligning on one side or the other.  Before Dr. Wolfe's departure, MU's best known poli sci (and probably liberal arts as whole) professors were both conservative.  I am personally liberal, so take what I say with a grain of salt, but I think MU stays more conservative than most universities, and owes much of that to its Catholic tradition.

[MUeagle05]

Jesuits teach people to think for themselves. The Catholic viewpoint is put forth loud and clear. If students choose to digest it and decide something else, how is that MU's fault? Please be specific.

Everyone is supposed to think for themselves.  The problem arises when professors don't put forth the viewpoint loud and clear by distorting or misrepresenting the actual Catholic teaching on a subject.  This prevents the students from making an informed decision.  I don't think it's appropriate to name specific professors or classes, but Catholic teaching on issues ranging from hot button issues such as abortion, euthanasia, gay marriage, birth control, and social justice, to other non-controversial issues, have been repeatedly distorted and misconstrued.  Not everyone who goes to or graduates from MU should or needs to be Catholic, but they should at least be correctly taught what Catholicism really is.  

[rocky_warrior]

So, uh....Father Wild is retiring huh?  He's been good for Marquette, and will be missed.

Try to stay on topic guys, or else we'll have to start "moderating" more...

[MUBurrow]

its not that far off topic, is it? it just sort of morphed into what we would like to see the next president continue or change from Fr. Wild's work...

[swimmer]

I don't think Marquette should be teaching only Catholic ideas.  After all, the class is called Theology 101, not Catechism 101.  If you want catechism, go to Sunday school.  You can't do theology if you don't also learn about other faiths, traditions, worldviews etc.  I'd say it's a pretty cheap faith that only wants to hear the official dogma.  The only true faith is chosen by the believer, it can't be crammed down anyone's throat, and to be truly chosen the alternatives must also be known.  My personal faith was deepened at Marquette precisely because I was encouraged to dig to the core, question the true meaning of my faith, and even explore faiths outside of my own.  

In my opinion, Marquette did it right.  I learned about a broad spectrum of ideas, maybe even heard a pro-abortion argument along the way from someone employed by the university, but never, ever was that pro-abortion argument even remotely endorsed.  It was presented for educational purposes, and having heard that argument I'm better prepared to face it with a reasoned response and more complete understanding.  If I was sheltered from different viewpoints, all I would be able to say is abortion = wrong . . . why? because the Vatican told me so.    

[rocky_warrior]

its not that far off topic, is it? it just sort of morphed into what we would like to see the next president continue or change from Fr. Wild's work...

I donno, any thread that gets to 7 pages in 6 hours is probably:
a) about a 5 star recruit
   or
b) off topic

Stay respectful and we'll let it ride for a while...

[GGGG]

Off topic???  It's on the Superbar...and it's not about politics.

[ChicosBailBonds]

gumby - I disagree with must of what you have said, but I do like that you posted big John McAdams' blog. As a former student, who honestly would have hated to have Catholicism more stringently enforced while I was there, I do think that Prof McAdams is a good example of MU doing a balancing act better than most schools. I think that if you look at MU as strictly Catholic, you won't be happy. But if you view the Catholic tradition as requiring MU to keep honest in terms of Conservative or Faith-based education priorities, I think it does a nice job.  Unfortunately, you can't please everyone. Prof Christopher Wolfe was an example of this. He was an outstanding conservative poli sci professor and penned one of the best books on the Constitution in recent history (an accolade given by minds much greater than my own).  Unfortunately Prof Wolfe left MU because he believed it had moved too far away from its Catholic, conservative tradition.

I don't mean to get overly political, but I think a poli sci department is a battleground for the identity of an institution, simply because you can't get away from aligning on one side or the other.  Before Dr. Wolfe's departure, MU's best known poli sci (and probably liberal arts as whole) professors were both conservative.  I am personally liberal, so take what I say with a grain of salt, but I think MU stays more conservative than most universities, and owes much of that to its Catholic tradition.

Dr. Wolfe...one of my favorites (my adviser as well).  He was a great thinker to be sure.  A throw back.  MU lost a great mind when he left.  Unfortunate IMO.  Big MU hoops fan as well.

[rocky_warrior]

Off topic???  It's on the Superbar...and it's not about politics.

Hah...It got moved 30 min ago from the Al, after my initial post and I didn't realize it (apparently, you never realized it was on the Al...)

Carry on...

[reinko]

As a bed wetting liberal, as a poly sci major my two favorite prof were Dr. Wolfe and Dr. McAdams.  They challenged students to think critially, without saying "I am right, you are wrong.". Both solid profs.

[ChicosBailBonds]

As a bed wetting liberal, as a poly sci major my two favorite prof were Dr. Wolfe and Dr. McAdams.  They challenged students to think critially, without saying "I am right, you are wrong.". Both solid profs.

As a bed wetting conservative (note, not Republican), I just liked how they thought.  


Latest on Dr. Wolfe....  http://academic.mu.edu/wolfec/Wolfe.htm


So, question about Father Wild's replacement.  I assume it has to be a Jesuit?  Is that correct?  Is that a requirement in the charter or something?

[Coleman]

I remember when Fr. Donnelly was young.  And yes, he was history.

You just dated yourself, good sir.

[Coleman]

If the issue is as crucial to the Catholic identity as Abortion/Right to Life, then it does break it.  

People have mentioned a bunch of the things I was referring to earlier, basically the "cafteria catholic" issue Chicos brought up.  But there are more serious things that MUeagle discussed that really call into question what is going on at MU at times.  The MU administration looks the other way quite often when things are brought to their attention that directly contradict Church teaching.

But it's not just at MU that this is going on.  Having a true Catholic like Leahy run a university like BC is becoming a rarity these days.

As far as declining numbers of priests goes, that's what happens when many seminaries have pretty much turned into bathhouses.  More traditional, conservative seminaries are doing quite well.  There is most certainly a battle for the soul of the Church going on.  You just have to find a parish that you are comfortable with.  Old St Mary's is a Conservative choice and St Pius is an option if you want a far left leaning parish to name two examples.

Someone mentioned Dorothy Day earlier.  Another controversial "honoree" from MU is Gwen Moore.

http://mu-warrior.blogspot.com/2008/10/rep-gwen-moore-marquettes-pet-pro.html

LOL the "conservative" seminaries are the ones the most like bathhouses. Look at the Legionnaires, who just got shut down. It was a brainwash/molestation factory.

But I digress. The crux of the argument comes down to Church authority vs. academic freedom. Some people believe that tenured professors shouldn't have the freedom to hold their own opinions and go their own way in terms of research, which is contrary to the very definition of a university. There are schools like this, such as Franciscan University in Steubenville or Liberty University run by Pat Robertson. If you want doctrine shoved down your throat, you can go there.

Marquette values academic freedom. Never once at my time there did a professor tell me innacurrate information regarding church teaching. They said, "this is what the church teachers, and this is what I believe." I don't see the problem in that. The whole point of a college education is hearing different points of view and making an informed decision. You can't do that if you only get one perspective.

One time, back in the 70s, there was a progressive faculty member on the theology department. A big-time conservative donor came up and offered Fr. Raynor a huge donation to strip away his tenure. Fr. Raynor said "his mind is not for sale." God bless the Jesuits and their value in academic freedom. That is why I came to Marquette.

[MUeagle05]

LOL the "conservative" seminaries are the ones the most like bathhouses. Look at the Legionnaires, who just got shut down. It was a brainwash/molestation factory.

But I digress. The crux of the argument comes down to Church authority vs. academic freedom. Some people believe that tenured professors shouldn't have the freedom to hold their own opinions and go their own way in terms of research, which is contrary to the very definition of a university. There are schools like this, such as Franciscan University in Steubenville or Liberty University run by Pat Robertson. If you want doctrine shoved down your throat, you can go there.

Marquette values academic freedom. Never once at my time there did a professor tell me innacurrate information regarding church teaching. They said, "this is what the church teachers, and this is what I believe." I don't see the problem in that. The whole point of a college education is hearing different points of view and making an informed decision. You can't do that if you only get one perspective.

One time, back in the 70s, there was a progressive faculty member on the theology department. A big-time conservative donor came up and offered Fr. Raynor a huge donation to strip away his tenure. Fr. Raynor said "his mind is not for sale." God bless the Jesuits and their value in academic freedom. That is why I came to Marquette.

I wouldn't go that far.  Don't believe the charade that is "academic freedom" in major universities.  Marquette, like most major universities, values conformity with the line of thinking of those granting tenure.  Young professors are explicitly told that if they have opinions that differ from the majority of the tenured professors, they should keep those opinions to themselves until after they have received tenure.  Once you have tenure it's a different story, but until then there is very strong pressure to conform.  And don't tell me I'm making this up.  I know of specific situations where young professors were directly told not to research or publish articles on specific topics because it would "rub some people the wrong way" and put their tenure at risk.  What is sad is that opinions that are often considered to be "controversial" are those that closely follow the teachings of the Catholic church, especially in the health care field . . .

[Coleman]

That happens everywhere, whether it leans one way or the other. You have to toe the line before tenure (maybe 6-7 years of your career), usually to the tune of the rest of the department and the dept. chair. That's just the politics of a university system.

And might I add that those politics are not determined by Fr. Wild or the Jesuits, or anyone in administration. They are internal to the department. The department decides who to hire and who to grant tenure, not Fr. Wild.

But the real difference is what tenure means once its been granted. Universities that value academic freedom, such as Marquette, allow their tenured professors to research where and what they want. Universities that don't force their tenured professors to continue walking the same line.

Marquette obviously does, because there are tenured professors like McAdams (leans right) and Maguire (leans left). Both of their jobs are safe, and that's how it should be.

[bma725]

So, question about Father Wild's replacement.  I assume it has to be a Jesuit?  Is that correct?  Is that a requirement in the charter or something?

It's in the charter that it has to be a Jesuit.  They could change it like Georgetown did if they feel their are no acceptable Jesuit candidates or the best candidate is not a Jesuit.

[bma725]

The final decision is made by the BoT.  The Provincial SJ may have influence, but the Board has the final say in all governance issues.

The Province, and larger Jesuit society as a whole have more influence than you give them credit for.

[GGGG]

Dr. Wolfe...one of my favorites (my adviser as well).  He was a great thinker to be sure.  A throw back.  MU lost a great mind when he left.  Unfortunate IMO.  Big MU hoops fan as well.

+1

I took his Civil Liberties class just to fill an elective.  It was damn hard...but so rewarding that I had to take Constitutional Law the next semester.

[GGGG]

The Province, and larger Jesuit society as a whole have more influence than you give them credit for.

I was just talking from a legal point of view.  I really had no idea of the level of the influence.

[GGGG]

That happens everywhere, whether it leans one way or the other. You have to toe the line before tenure (maybe 6-7 years of your career), usually to the tune of the rest of the department and the dept. chair. That's just the politics of a university system.

And might I add that those politics are not determined by Fr. Wild or the Jesuits, or anyone in administration. They are internal to the department. The department decides who to hire and who to grant tenure, not Fr. Wild.

If MU is like most universities, the President has the final say on tenure.  Granted, once it gets to that level, Presidents rarely will go against the department.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Not a fan of tenure, but that's a discussion for another day.