2022 World Cup Thread

[Pakuni]

Hate to spoil your narrative boys, but ...

Gio Reyna releases a statement on his Instagram:
"I fully acknowledge that I let my emotions get the best of me & affect my training & behavior for a few days after learning about my limited role. I apologized to my teammates and coach for this, and I was told I was forgiven."

https://twitter.com/tombogert/status/1602371139900260365

Now, before anyone says it:
1. It's completely fair to criticize Berhalter for his handling of Reyna's playing time
2. It's completely fair to criticize Berhalter/USMNT for this story leaking out

But it's really, really silly to suggest this was all made up ... and now we know it wasn't.

[panda]

Hate to spoil your narrative boys, but ...

Gio Reyna releases a statement on his Instagram:
"I fully acknowledge that I let my emotions get the best of me & affect my training & behavior for a few days after learning about my limited role. I apologized to my teammates and coach for this, and I was told I was forgiven."

https://twitter.com/tombogert/status/1602371139900260365

Doesn’t change the fact ggg still has egg on his face

[panda]

Hate to spoil your narrative boys, but ...

Gio Reyna releases a statement on his Instagram:
"I fully acknowledge that I let my emotions get the best of me & affect my training & behavior for a few days after learning about my limited role. I apologized to my teammates and coach for this, and I was told I was forgiven."

https://twitter.com/tombogert/status/1602371139900260365

I just read the full quote. Gio looks 1000x better than locker room ruiner, leadership savant ggg.

[Pakuni]

I just read the full quote. Gio looks 1000x better than locker room ruiner, leadership savant ggg.

1. What evidence do you have that the locker room was "ruined."
2. How should a coach handle a player who's loafing and pouting over playing time?

[JWags85]

Overall I thought ggg did an ok job in this cycle. Qualifying did not go smoothly and the “system” fell way short. He did a great job improving team morale after klinsman, did a great job recruiting dual nationals. After that, the play on the field was mediocre, his team selections left a lot to be desired and his tactical acumen was low. In the WC specifically, I thought he set his teams up well tactically and played great first halves each game, but substitutions were mistimed, tactically incorrect and no creativity going forward (gio ?).

Absolutely agree with that.  It was tremendous talent acquisition by him.  Between Dest and Musah and making sure Slonina didn't defect, his recruiting has been great.

As for the second part, so he's basically soccer Tom Crean?

Hate to spoil your narrative boys, but ...

Gio Reyna releases a statement on his Instagram:
"I fully acknowledge that I let my emotions get the best of me & affect my training & behavior for a few days after learning about my limited role. I apologized to my teammates and coach for this, and I was told I was forgiven."

https://twitter.com/tombogert/status/1602371139900260365

Now, before anyone says it:
1. It's completely fair to criticize Berhalter for his handling of Reyna's playing time
2. It's completely fair to criticize Berhalter/USMNT for this story leaking out

But it's really, really silly to suggest this was all made up ... and now we know it wasn't.

I don't think I ever implied it was made up.  All that I said was made up was the player vote part.  I never said Reyna was blameless, but that he didn't have a history of diva/toxic/bad changing room behavior that would imply a bust up of what was being reported.  Like he was tearing the entire team apart and teammates wanted him gone. 

Echoing some of panda, I think Berhalter handled Reyna terribly, for what reason, I don't know.  Why he couldn't fit someone like that into his system, who knows. (Telling one of the 3 best players in the side that they will have a very limited role in the WC, before even playing a match, is just baffling.  This isn't a lumbering 7 foot center in basketball who can be schemed out by a couple fast outside shooting teams) Reyna could have reacted better, absolutely, but again, he's far from the first.  (Clint Dempsey once ripped open his hand because he wasn't starting a Europa League match).  Regardless of any of that, the way the news/situation has been leaked/shared/reported on is embarrassing and problematic.  Made it look like outright mutiny or a coup by Reyna that was handled magnificently by a calm and strong manager.

Nothing about Reyna's statement makes me feel any better about US Soccer or Berhalter or the very real possibility he's extended before year end.

I just read the full quote. Gio looks 1000x better than locker room ruiner, leadership savant ggg.

Yep.  Especially verifying that blatant falsehoods were being reported, as we've addressed, as well as being told stuff was done and over with...only to be rehashed well after the tourney.

Also, real questionable part to highlight in that tweet Tom...

[StillAWarrior]

2. How should a coach handle a player who's loafing and pouting over playing time?

Internally.

[panda]

Internally.

Yes - and not saying gio was hurt when he was fit.

Very pathetic Ggg just couldn’t wait more than a week to throw a 20 year old under the bus.

[tower912]

2. How should a coach handle a player who's loafing and pouting over playing time?

Let him transfer.

[Golden Avalanche]

Hate to spoil your narrative boys, but ...

Gio Reyna releases a statement on his Instagram:
"I fully acknowledge that I let my emotions get the best of me & affect my training & behavior for a few days after learning about my limited role. I apologized to my teammates and coach for this, and I was told I was forgiven."

https://twitter.com/tombogert/status/1602371139900260365

Now, before anyone says it:
1. It's completely fair to criticize Berhalter for his handling of Reyna's playing time
2. It's completely fair to criticize Berhalter/USMNT for this story leaking out

But it's really, really silly to suggest this was all made up ... and now we know it wasn't.

Who suggested it was "all made up"?  I missed that post so could you link it?

[Pakuni]

Who suggested it was "all made up"?  I missed that post so could you link it?

That was an exaggeration on my part. Apologies.
Instead, there were remarks about the reports about his lack of effort not being believable.

[jesmu84]

https://www.reddit.com/r/MLS/comments/zkap8e/jimmy_conrad_on_in_soccer_we_trust_i_heard_the/

[JWags85]

That was an exaggeration on my part. Apologies.
Instead, there were remarks about the reports about his lack of effort not being believable.

I only found it unbelievable to the extent they were portraying it as.  Like I mentioned in prior posts, players, even great teammates and players, get pissed about playing time and act out about it.  Ones far older and more seasons than Reyna.  To make this out to be something that would rip the team apart seemed pretty out of character and far more exaggerated than anything his history or other professional experience would suggest.  That’s all I was aiming at.  Otherwise “coach benches star player, player gets upset about it, it’s handled internally team moves on” isn’t unbelievable nor earth shattering.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MLS/comments/zkap8e/jimmy_conrad_on_in_soccer_we_trust_i_heard_the/

Again, I think context/which players matter.  Jimmy Conrad is a 45 year old MLS lifer.  I imagine his sources were not 22 year old European based members of the team.  Probably other guys that think Morris is still a game changer, like Berhalter does. Which again highlights this schism that US Soccer has to deal with.  The future of the US team as a potential power is in guys like Pulisic, McKinnie, Reyna, Musah, Weah, Dest…guys that never played a minute in MLS.  And guys like Adams, Aaronsen, Richards, Scally, Pepi, and Slonina who left MLS before they could legally drink.  There will always be MLS based support players for some international windows and whatnot, but having lesser players getting those spots because of the MLS loyalty of manager and federation creates a schism.  I highly doubt those complaining about Reyna’s playing time were any of the ones I listed above.

At the end of the day, it’s part of the manager’s job to foster and mend that schism, if it exists, and regardless of Reyna, Berhalter doesn’t seem to have been able to do that.

[mug644]

...Which again highlights this schism that US Soccer has to deal with.  The future of the US team as a potential power is in guys like Pulisic, McKinnie, Reyna, Musah, Weah, Dest…guys that never played a minute in MLS.  And guys like Adams, Aaronsen, Richards, Scally, Pepi, and Slonina who left MLS before they could legally drink.  There will always be MLS based support players for some international windows and whatnot, but having lesser players getting those spots because of the MLS loyalty of manager and federation creates a schism. ...

Good points JWags. And you hint at something I've been wondering about. Were there any rosters in the World Cup that were 100% players from that country's league(s)? I was think that it might be  England, but Jude Bellingham plays in Germany. The German squad had players from the English PL and Spanish La Liga. Maybe Italy? Nope; players in the PL and in France. And, of course, not France (who's goalie plays alongside Harry Kane at Tottenham). Maybe Qatar's team?!

The game is international, borders (even nationalities) are porous, and tensions between home country leagues and players playing elsewhere will continue to exist. Especially in countries like the US where the national leagues is so clearly a step (or 3) below European leagues.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

My recollection may be off, but I believe the 2018 Swedish team that made the quarter finals had ZERO players playing in its national league.

Regardless, I think these issues are somewhat unique to the US due to provincial thinking and the cozy relationship between MLS and USSF. Klinnsman ran up against this when he was openly encouraging players to head to Europe.  Even if you have to go the Daryl Dike route and play in the English Championship. That's a lot better than MLS and is an absolutely grueling schedule with 46 league games and two cup competitions so you will get plenty of opportunity.

I also think MLS is at the point where it really doesn't NEED the stars to drive as much viewership any longer.

[mug644]

My recollection may be off, but I believe the 2018 Swedish team that made the quarter finals had ZERO players playing in its national league.

Regardless, I think these issues are somewhat unique to the US due to provincial thinking and the cozy relationship between MLS and USSF. Klinnsman ran up against this when he was openly encouraging players to head to Europe.  Even if you have to go the Daryl Dike route and play in the English Championship. That's a lot better than MLS and is an absolutely grueling schedule with 46 league games and two cup competitions so you will get plenty of opportunity.

I also think MLS is at the point where it really doesn't NEED the stars to drive as much viewership any longer.

It's certainly common that African teams (especially those from Sub-Saharan Africa) don't have any (or very few) players that play domestically.

I recall several World Cup cycles ago where the 'traditional' nations were bemoaning the loss of their national 'style' of play since their players were more frequently playing elsewhere. Italy and Germany seem to have felt it the most, though I suppose one might argue that that's why Brazil hasn't won for 20 years. And there's France, who won last time with players who weren't even really French. 

I think that MLS is accepting that it's place on the global ladder of leagues is not so high. It benefits from being attractive to fading stars, which sells lots of tickets and jerseys, and also trying to establish academies that groom and sell budding stars, to bring in transfer fees.

[panda]

https://twitter.com/bvbbuzz/status/1602656525465550849?s=46&t=poTw4dRqgVD3qOWvl_qgRg

The lengths the mls/ussf backed media will go to smear one of our top players and defend their prized coaching asset is remarkable.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

https://twitter.com/bvbbuzz/status/1602656525465550849?s=46&t=poTw4dRqgVD3qOWvl_qgRg

The lengths the mls/ussf backed media will go to smear one of our top players and defend their prized coaching asset is remarkable.

Not saying this isn't accurate, but you have to take what this guy is saying with a grain of salt right? What is he supposed to say especially since he has no idea what actually happened.

[panda]

Not saying this isn't accurate, but you have to take what this guy is saying with a grain of salt right? What is he supposed to say especially since he has no idea what actually happened.

“This guy” being the sporting director of dortmund saying they’ve never had any issues with gio at the club level should be taken w a grain of salt ?

[Golden Avalanche]

https://www.reddit.com/r/MLS/comments/zkap8e/jimmy_conrad_on_in_soccer_we_trust_i_heard_the/

If we go with Conrad on this it would seem to make Berhalter's position all the more untenable. Reyna went DNP, seven minutes, DNP, halftime sub.

Initially, the painting was Berhalter was working on behalf of the unit when he froze out the ill-tempered youth. But now with Conrad's words it would seem the unit could be broken a bit by some feeling letdown as Berhalter relented. He vacillated and caused issues with both sides of the reported problem.

Clean house and fresh slate for all seems so much the wise choice I wouldn't expect it to happen.

[Pakuni]

“This guy” being the sporting director of dortmund saying they’ve never had any issues with gio at the club level should be taken w a grain of salt ?

I mean, Reyna admitted he behaved poorly, right? He admitted his behavior was such that he had to apologize to his teammates.
I'm not sure why it's so hard to imagine that a 20-year-old who hadn't created problems previously in one circumstance reacted poorly to disappointing news in a completely different circumstance.
Especially, you know, when that 20-year-old admits he behaved poorly.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

“This guy” being the sporting director of dortmund saying they’ve never had any issues with gio at the club level should be taken w a grain of salt ?

1. Because he doesn't actually know what happened with USMNT.  Just because he has had no problems at BVB, that doesn't mean he wouldn't have problems elsewhere.

2. What is he supposed to say? He's defending his player like every other person in that role would.

Look, the whole situation is unfortunate and the coach should have handled it better. But its obvious SOMETHING happened...otherwise why would Gio apologize? To say that they are intentionally "smearing" one of their top players is a little hyperbolic.

[panda]

I think it says more about a player that has never stepped out of line in three years in a very difficult and competitive club setting.

He apologized for something that happened in the lead up to the WC, but I’m finding much more an issue with how ggg/ussf handled (or didn’t really handle) the issue. Completely bungled from start to finish and shows his severe lack of managerial and leadership experience.

[JWags85]

I mean, Reyna admitted he behaved poorly, right? He admitted his behavior was such that he had to apologize to his teammates.
I'm not sure why it's so hard to imagine that a 20-year-old who hadn't created problems previously in one circumstance reacted poorly to disappointing news in a completely different circumstance.
Especially, you know, when that 20-year-old admits he behaved poorly.

I can't speak for panda is referring to, but I mentioned this tweet from McIntyre before...

https://twitter.com/jasonrmcintyre/status/1602151244939726848?s=20&t=ryLUET_D1N6nAK1dfkhHYw

Completely unsubstantiated but seeking to bolster the WC story.  Its been refuted by German media and BVB multiple times.

Look, the whole situation is unfortunate and the coach should have handled it better. But its obvious SOMETHING happened...otherwise why would Gio apologize? To say that they are intentionally "smearing" one of their top players is a little hyperbolic.

I think my issue is that from a lot of the USSF/MLS media is that there isn't a "the player acted out, it could have been handled by Berhalter better, etc..."  It just seems very much like "Look at how steady handed management was addressing this bratty 20 year old diva.  Here is more depth to him being a diva".  I wouldn't say smearing either, thats a bit dramatic.  But it does seem like the angle was far more insistent on showing how much of a problem Berhalter had to deal with, as opposed to also viewing how it could have best been handled.

For levity, Ive respectfully disagreed with a lot of Pak's arguments on this here, but at least he's not this dude...

https://twitter.com/the_bonnfire/status/1602097208400248832?s=20&t=ryLUET_D1N6nAK1dfkhHYw

https://twitter.com/the_bonnfire/status/1602100823240196096?s=20&t=ryLUET_D1N6nAK1dfkhHYw

https://twitter.com/the_bonnfire/status/1602100070509432833?s=20&t=ryLUET_D1N6nAK1dfkhHYw

Forget a Christmas card or a fruit basket, does US Soccer and/or Berhalter provide this guy with a padded back brace for all the water he is carrying?  That last tweet is particularly unhinged and borderline satirical.

[Pakuni]

I don't think anyone here is arguing that Berhalter isn't very much in the wrong for letting this get public, and that's a poor reflection on him.
But that doesn't change the fact that Reyna's behavior was a serious issue - by his own admission, even. And all the posts about his reputation at Dortmund or gripes about Berhalter, MLS and the USSF, doesn't change that.

It's OK for there not to be a good guy vs bad guy narrative to this. It seems almost as if some want to make Reyna a martyr here - or at least excuse/ignore his role in this mess -  just because he's on the opposite side of Berhalter. In reality, there's plenty of reason to believe they both acted poorly.

[JWags85]

I don't think anyone here is arguing that Berhalter isn't very much in the wrong for letting this get public, and that's a poor reflection on him.
But that doesn't change the fact that Reyna's behavior was a serious issue - by his own admission, even. And all the posts about his reputation at Dortmund or gripes about Berhalter, MLS and the USSF, doesn't change that.

It's OK for there not to be a good guy vs bad guy narrative to this. It seems almost as if some want to make Reyna a martyr here - or at least excuse/ignore his role in this mess -  just because he's on the opposite side of Berhalter. In reality, there's plenty of reason to believe they both acted poorly.

No, the conversation here has been pretty even handed, as to be expected.  I think the majority of what ive griped about has been the reporting and tweeting from media about it, which is very much revolving around a good vs bad narrative.  I mean, look at what I just posted.  Thats not a fanboy, not Berhalter's family or friends, thats the Sporting News soccer writer.  And he's far from alone.

Again, the he said/she said is meaningless in the long run, 4 years is a long ways away and even if it was total slander (which is wasnt), Reyna can move past it just fine and continue to be a superstar who is still only 24 come 2026.  My issue with all of this and the MLS/USSF is that it feels like setting up for more of the same.  Nobody with a non biased brain thinks Berhalter is the right fit for the USMNT moving forward, much less 2026, but this veneration of his handling of the situation, the skirting of blame for him and his team's management of the player and the narrative around it (by the media, by US Soccer press, not by you or others on Scoop), is incredibly concerning.  Again, I would be absolutely not shocked at all to see an extension for him, "he did great, got us out of the group stages, let him have until Copa 2024 at least!"