Marquette and NCAA Soccer

[shoothoops]

With the Women’s World Cup, August 1st opening of Fall Marquette Women’s
Soccer training camp. and with Marquette landing its first 2025 commit this week during the kickoff of official visit season, it’s a good time for the college soccer thread. (Marquette Men’s Soccer will open preseason camp next week.)

Frank Pelaez is in his 4th season as HC at MUWSOC. And the team will try to take a step forward a little closer to Georgetown and Xavier, the conference leaders of the past several years. The rebuild is still a work in progress. But there are signs of improved recruiting with the likes of Baca (up top and wing)and McMinn (defensive midfield, but can play higher) coming in this season. Solid inside out regional to national recruiting approach, targeting the geographies and clubs that make sense. In part success will be related to how well can MUWSOC recruit vs the top few teams in its league, as well as vs Power 5 teams, especially the Big 10. It’s essential to be able to be competitive recruiting head to head with Power 5 programs, to be successful in the Women’s game. It’s less of a factor in the Men’ game.

A reasonable shorter term goal would be to get to being an almost annual NCAA tourney team. Then build from there. They are not there yet. (pace, technical, tactical) But it is improved.

No stranger to MUWSOC, Pelaez was a 19 year MUWSOC assistant before leaving to help Loyola Chicago as an assistant, build and win MVC Championships. And he was part of some early program success.

First 2025 commit is Piper Lucier, who played in the E64 USYS Championship Game in Oceanside, CA this Summer (same time as some other MUWSOC commits were playing down the coast in Del Mar, CA in the ECNL playoffs) Piper is from Barrington High and FC 1974 club. She can play 3 different attacking positions. She also spent a year at IMG Academy in Bradenton, FL. It’s a good start for 2025.

[shoothoops]

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=65040.0

Mentioned that the strong start for MU Men’s Soccer was built largely on one good win over Wisconsin and some soft opponents.

And unfortunately that has held up. The offense has fallen off against more competitive teams, and they’ve lost 4 straight. RPI is 93. They are 5th in their division in the Big East.

……………….

MU Women’s Soccer RPI is at 112. Early win at Colorado is the season highlight. They do get 2 good home games this week, especially Georgetown. The Hoyas are a perennial Women’s power and top 25 team. They finish at Xavier who has won the Big East a few times in recent years. And they are in 1st place once again. Scoring troubles all season and finding ways to lose close low scoring games. It’s competitive but there really isn’t a reason why MU can’t push to be the 3rd best team in the league. They are from the top 2.

[shoothoops]

As expected, the Big East Women’s Soccer season will come down to the final day between Georgetown and Xavier. Marquette has an opportunity to play spoiler as a Xavier win vs MU gives them a share of the Big East Title with the Hoyas.

MU was a struggle bus for 2 seasons prior to the return of Frank Peleaz. And it has been a struggle bus in his first four seasons as head coach. Peleaz was a big part of MU success over two decades prior to leaving for 5 seasons at Loyola Chicago and having success there as an assistant.

123 RPI for MU (College soccer uses RPI) follows up seasons of 163, 103, 152. The 2 seasons prior to his return were 143 and 157. 8th, 7th, 7th in the past 3 league seasons since the division format was removed.

The Big East itself has been roughly the 9th best conference in Women’s college soccer during this time.

With little offense, they tried to hang around with defense as much as possible in the league. But the flood gates have opened with combined 0-8 score in their past games at home.

In order to be more successful in Women’s
Soccer, MU has to be able to recruit better bs regional teams at minimum. And player development needs improvement. This is mostly vs the Big 10 but not exclusive to it. It has to be a win some lose some level of recruiting going head to head against them as well as against the upper tier of the Big East such as Georgetown, Xavier, etc..among others.

…………….

With the Men’s team, as mentioned, a soft non/conference schedule and one good win over Wisconsin had them out to a good early start. But that changed quickly.

1-5-3 in league play, which includes their most recent draw which was a “good” one against new league team Akron. RPI of 95 is on the outside looking in without a top level conference tourney performance.

MU will not finish with a losing record for the 13th time in 18 seasons under Louie Bennett. It will remain at 12. In that time MU has 2 Sweet 16’s sandwiched almost a decade apart, and 3 total NCAA appearances in 17 seasons, soon to be 18, without some late season magic. Wins over UNCW and top 10 RPI Georgetown, at home this week, would be a good place to start.

[shoothoops]

And that will do it for the MU Women’s Soccer Season. Mentioned the opportunity to make something happen in their last 3 games against good teams. Final scores of those games were a combined 3 losses of 11-0. Ouch. Year 5 for Frank P next year.

Xavier and Georgetown are co champions, with X getting the 1 seed for the conference tourney. Nate Lie was a strong hire for them as he has had them as an annual top 25 caliber program the past 5 years, after inheriting a mess. UConn is a bubble team. They will probably need to get wins over Butler and Georgetown in the conference tourney to get an invite.

[panda]

Do you think the us college soccer infrastructure is greatly hindering player development in this country ?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Do you think the us college soccer infrastructure is greatly hindering player development in this country ?

And should that matter?

[JWags85]

And should that matter?

I think it matters if you want to look at it from a "state of US Soccer" perspective.  Its a totally valid question and worry...

As for the question...

Do you think the us college soccer infrastructure is greatly hindering player development in this country ?

I actually don't.    Maybe 10-20 years ago.  But there is enough structure, systems, and exposure that elite talents can find their way. 

Do I think USMNT caliber players who develop early (guys like Pulisic, McKennie, Reyna, even other fringe guys like Tessman, Taylor Booth, etc... would be hindered/harmed in the traditional HS/club to NCAA track?  Yes.  But thats not really the case anymore.  You have the MLS academies, some better than others, and residency programs, and plenty of foreign scouting in the country.

The kids still playing the NCAA track are probably in the best system for them at the level they are at.  Of course there are guys who play NCAA for a few years that blow up and end up in Europe or getting caps, but they most likely wouldn't have been in the mix for the opportunities I mentioned earlier at that age.

I think the biggest hindrance in US Soccer is pay to play and the negative effect it has on the ecosystem in terms of finding and developing talent that don't have the means to afford select and travel teams.

[panda]

I think we’re at the point of independence with soccer in this country that it doesn’t matter how or where the top players develop. Cream rises to the top. However I think we’re at a huge disadvantage when other comparable countries 18 year olds are signing professional contracts while the majority of our 18 year olds are going to play 20 games a year with limited practice time against others with the same major limitations.

Play four years in college only to get fed into MLS where they need a couple years to prove themselves before a bigger move, except they’re 25-27 years old which hamstrings them in the transfer market.

Right now, our national team is propped up by dual nationals, all growing up outside of the country, who played and matured in a professional environment.

The depth of our talent pool would significantly increase if we upped the level of play from our 18-22 year old pool. That’s why I think the growth of USL can ultimately be huge. If they want to find a competive advantage over MLS (since MLS is hell bent on a closed system) USL would be smart to be the feeder system of young American talent.

[shoothoops]

I think we’re at the point of independence with soccer in this country that it doesn’t matter how or where the top players develop. Cream rises to the top. However I think we’re at a huge disadvantage when other comparable countries 18 year olds are signing professional contracts while the majority of our 18 year olds are going to play 20 games a year with limited practice time against others with the same major limitations.

Play four years in college only to get fed into MLS where they need a couple years to prove themselves before a bigger move, except they’re 25-27 years old which hamstrings them in the transfer market.

Right now, our national team is propped up by dual nationals, all growing up outside of the country, who played and matured in a professional environment.

The depth of our talent pool would significantly increase if we upped the level of play from our 18-22 year old pool. That’s why I think the growth of USL can ultimately be huge. If they want to find a competive advantage over MLS (since MLS is hell bent on a closed system) USL would be smart to be the feeder system of young American talent.

No I don’t believe college soccer limits development. And I’m active in all levels of soccer.

I follow and discuss Men and Women’s Soccer, and their paths and approaches differ. You mentioned Men’s Soccer.

There are a variety of paths for Men. Top 30 high school aged players turn professional. It is not an exact science of 1 through 30. It varies but essentially about 30 teens turn pro domestically or overseas on the Men’s side.

MLS Next Pro is quickly becoming a developmental path to Men’s Soccer. Example: Patrick Schulte a keeper, played college soccer for snfew years. Both he and his team had individual and team success. Then he left for MLS Generation Adidas program draft. It’s a select group of college players that are non Seniors that get drafted. It’s usually less than 10 a year.

1st year as a pro Patrick led Columbus II to the MLS Next Pro Championship. His 2nd year as a pro, he beat out the veteran keepers at Columbus and became the starting keeper for Columbus Crew where he has les his team to the playoffs. And, he is one of four keepers in canp for two spots on the U.S. U23 Olympic Team. He will likely make the team along with Chris Brady from Chicago.

Several teenagers sign homegrown deals and then play on the MLS Next Pro team and go back and forth a bit. I do know of some players who will play temporarily on loan from MLS to USL. Isaiah Parker was stuck behind Farfan ar left back for Dallas. So he played MLS Next Pro for North Texas. Then for additional reps and development, they loaned him to San Antonio in USL.

For now there is a place for USL. But many younger players are going to go back and forth between their MLS Team and MLS Next Pro team.

Some players are borderline sign a homegrown deal or go to college. They choose both paths. Some players are not ready for pro soccer as a teen, whether that is physically, technically. emotionally, mentally, etc….and college offers a good development and maturity path for many players.

College to MLS or college to MLS Next Pro to MLS is fine.

And the college path varies too. By that I mean some teams are domestic heavy, some International Heavy, and some are a mix. It all depends.

College is still a good developmental path. MLS Next Pro is the popular new path and bridge to MLS.

………………….
Women’s Soccer is very different. It’s still mostly a college to pro path. But they are increasing high school to pro. It’s about 5 per year right now of straight to pros. That will gradually increase as NWSL and European opportunities expand. There is a lot of competition right now for NWSL expansion. And there is also a new league coming too.

And of course with Women’s College Soccer, Power 5 is a much bigger deal as Men don’t field as many teams in those leagues. With Women, high academic and athletic schools are popular, Men too. With Men league matters much less.

I don’t really live in a world of one path. I’ve seen way too many players take a variety of successful paths.

Men’s college soccer recruits mostly from MLS Academies, non MLS Academies, and a few other mixed in like ECNL etc….Some top American MLS Academy players will play professionally abroad. Some committed college players will train with MLS Next Pro teams but still go to college when the time comes as long as they don’t sign a pro deal. Most don’t.

MLS Academies recruit all over for players both domestically and Internationally. I’m talking U15 U16, U17 etc and maybe younger too. So a kid might be from DC but plays for Colorado Rapids Academy then go to college then pro. That happens a lot. The players are not just local. Some are some aren’t.

International players know very little about American colleges. So some very good players transfer from smaller schools sometimes.

Women’s Soccer, ECNL is dominant, but Girls Academy is also a viable option as well as USYS. But ECNL Regional League is scooping up USYS teams.

That covers much of the basics. Just ask if there is anything I’m missing.

[shoothoops]

For the first time since 1981, it is Ivy League Soccer Conference Tourney next weekend.

Brown Bears Women won their 4th straight Ivy League Title led by dynamic All American Forward Brittany Raphino.

Final Regular season game day today.

How many Ivy Women’s Soccer teams will make the NCAA Tourney this year? Quite possibly 4, with Brown, Princeton, Harvard, Columbia.

Games in Providence, Philly, New Haven, and Princeton today.

[shoothoops]

1pm home game for Marquette Men’s Soccer. (92 RPI) And it’s a big one vs Georgetown. (5 RPI)

[panda]

No I don’t believe college soccer limits development. And I’m active in all levels of soccer.

I follow and discuss Men and Women’s Soccer, and their paths and approaches differ. You mentioned Men’s Soccer.

There are a variety of paths for Men. Top 30 high school aged players turn professional. It is not an exact science of 1 through 30. It varies but essentially about 30 teens turn pro domestically or overseas on the Men’s side.

MLS Next Pro is quickly becoming a developmental path to Men’s Soccer. Example: Patrick Schulte a keeper, played college soccer for snfew years. Both he and his team had individual and team success. Then he left for MLS Generation Adidas program draft. It’s a select group of college players that are non Seniors that get drafted. It’s usually less than 10 a year.

1st year as a pro Patrick led Columbus II to the MLS Next Pro Championship. His 2nd year as a pro, he beat out the veteran keepers at Columbus and became the starting keeper for Columbus Crew where he has les his team to the playoffs. And, he is one of four keepers in canp for two spots on the U.S. U23 Olympic Team. He will likely make the team along with Chris Brady from Chicago.

Several teenagers sign homegrown deals and then play on the MLS Next Pro team and go back and forth a bit. I do know of some players who will play temporarily on loan from MLS to USL. Isaiah Parker was stuck behind Farfan ar left back for Dallas. So he played MLS Next Pro for North Texas. Then for additional reps and development, they loaned him to San Antonio in USL.

For now there is a place for USL. But many younger players are going to go back and forth between their MLS Team and MLS Next Pro team.

Some players are borderline sign a homegrown deal or go to college. They choose both paths. Some players are not ready for pro soccer as a teen, whether that is physically, technically. emotionally, mentally, etc….and college offers a good development and maturity path for many players.

College to MLS or college to MLS Next Pro to MLS is fine.

And the college path varies too. By that I mean some teams are domestic heavy, some International Heavy, and some are a mix. It all depends.

College is still a good developmental path. MLS Next Pro is the popular new path and bridge to MLS.

………………….
Women’s Soccer is very different. It’s still mostly a college to pro path. But they are increasing high school to pro. It’s about 5 per year right now of straight to pros. That will gradually increase as NWSL and European opportunities expand. There is a lot of competition right now for NWSL expansion. And there is also a new league coming too.

And of course with Women’s College Soccer, Power 5 is a much bigger deal as Men don’t field as many teams in those leagues. With Women, high academic and athletic schools are popular, Men too. With Men league matters much less.

I don’t really live in a world of one path. I’ve seen way too many players take a variety of successful paths.

Men’s college soccer recruits mostly from MLS Academies, non MLS Academies, and a few other mixed in like ECNL etc….Some top American MLS Academy players will play professionally abroad. Some committed college players will train with MLS Next Pro teams but still go to college when the time comes as long as they don’t sign a pro deal. Most don’t.

MLS Academies recruit all over for players both domestically and Internationally. I’m talking U15 U16, U17 etc and maybe younger too. So a kid might be from DC but plays for Colorado Rapids Academy then go to college then pro. That happens a lot. The players are not just local. Some are some aren’t.

International players know very little about American colleges. So some very good players transfer from smaller schools sometimes.

Women’s Soccer, ECNL is dominant, but Girls Academy is also a viable option as well as USYS. But ECNL Regional League is scooping up USYS teams.

That covers much of the basics. Just ask if there is anything I’m missing.

You did a very good job explaining the options of young players growing up in the American soccer system, but didn’t do anything to sway me as to why college is still a viable option for our kids a step below the elite. Most kids abroad are signing professional contracts at that age.

The options are quite frankly so poor that all of our top talent here with a passport choose to directly bypass it and head to Europe.

[shoothoops]

You did a very good job explaining the options of young players growing up in the American soccer system, but didn’t do anything to sway me as to why college is still a viable option for our kids a step below the elite. Most kids abroad are signing professional contracts at that age.

The options are quite frankly so poor that all of our top talent here with a passport choose to directly bypass it and head to Europe.

1) I am not trying to sway you. I don’t care if you are swayed or not, no offense, nothing personal.
2) I disagree with your opinion about college soccer.
3) I do not live in a world of only U.S. Men’s National team or bust (plus top few European Men’s leagues.) My soccer interests are much more diverse than that. We already have a thread for that. This thread for example will be all things Women and Men’s College Soccer. And it’s fun.

As for college soccer, it’s been proven to be a bridge from academies to professional soccer. There are many examples. And that’s great.

The U.S. Men’s team will be filled with both foreign and domestic playing players.

If you live in Milwaukee or Chicago hopefully you’ll make the Marquette vs Georgetown game today. Enjoy.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Right. College soccer provides opportunities for hundreds to keep playing, some to earn scholarships, and perhaps a few to even make a living at it when all is said and done.

Not everything has to be about elite talent development.

[shoothoops]

Right. College soccer provides opportunities for hundreds to keep playing, some to earn scholarships, and perhaps a few to even make a living at it when all is said and done.

Not everything has to be about elite talent development.

Yep. And some do go on to do just that. I used a specific example of a player who played academy ball/USL ball, then college a few years, then one year MLS Next Pro, One year MLS, will be U23 Olympic Keeper and possible future National team keeper.

I know many soccer players that have been able to use soccer to attend and play for some of the best academic schools in the country. I know some that used college soccer to make a 6 and 7 figure living for many years playing professional soccer. I know several college soccer players that developed later than some of their peers and went on to professional soccer careers. I know several college soccer players that don’t play professional soccer and that’s just fine too. It’s a big wide mix. And some play domestically and some play internationally. Some go into coaching and player development.

Friends with a former Women’s player who plays professionally for the top team in Denmark. She has played in and she has scored goals in the UEFA Champions League. How cool is that?

It’s great.

[panda]

Yep. And some do go on to do just that. I used a specific example of a player who played academy ball/USL ball, then college a few years, then one year MLS Next Pro, One year MLS, will be U23 Olympic Keeper and possible future National team keeper.

I know many soccer players that have been able to use soccer to attend and play for some of the best academic schools in the country. I know some that used college soccer to make a 6 and 7 figure living for many years playing professional soccer. I know several college soccer players that developed later than some of their peers and went on to professional soccer careers. I know several college soccer players that don’t play professional soccer and that’s just fine too. It’s a big wide mix. And some play domestically and some play internationally. Some go into coaching and player development.

Friends with a former Women’s player who plays professionally for the top team in Denmark. She has played in and she has scored goals in the UEFA Champions League. How cool is that?

It’s great.

There is nothing elite about college soccer.

And those players earning scholarships could instead go sign professional contracts like everywhere else in the world. They don’t disappear, they go and play in a more viable and competitive infrastructure.

[shoothoops]

There is nothing elite about college soccer.

And those players earning scholarships could instead go sign professional contracts like everywhere else in the world. They don’t disappear, they go and play in a more viable and competitive infrastructure.

Many college soccer players go on to play professionally domestically or internationally, some even at the highest levels. Georgetown, today’s MU opponent has had 34 of them. They won the 2021 National Title and they made the Final Four 2 years ago. Good program. I’m sure Brian Wiese would disagree with you.

It’s been explained to you that different players take different paths for different reasons. There isn’t just one way to do it.

Enjoy today’s game.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

There is nothing elite about college soccer.

And those players earning scholarships could instead go sign professional contracts like everywhere else in the world. They don’t disappear, they go and play in a more viable and competitive infrastructure.

Or they could play college soccer, get a scholarship, earn a degree and make a living doing something outside of playing in the Hungarian second tier.

Regardless the other options are available right now anyway. Why can’t both exist?

[lawdog77]

Yep. And some do go on to do just that. I used a specific example of a player who played academy ball/USL ball, then college a few years, then one year MLS Next Pro, One year MLS, will be U23 Olympic Keeper and possible future National team keeper.

I know many soccer players that have been able to use soccer to attend and play for some of the best academic schools in the country. I know some that used college soccer to make a 6 and 7 figure living for many years playing professional soccer. I know several college soccer players that developed later than some of their peers and went on to professional soccer careers. I know several college soccer players that don’t play professional soccer and that’s just fine too. It’s a big wide mix. And some play domestically and some play internationally. Some go into coaching and player development.

Friends with a former Women’s player who plays professionally for the top team in Denmark. She has played in and she has scored goals in the UEFA Champions League. How cool is that?

It’s great.

Thanks, Chicos

[panda]

Many college soccer players go on to play professionally domestically or internationally, some even at the highest levels. Georgetown, today’s MU opponent has had 34 of them. They won the 2021 National Title and they made the Final Four 2 years ago. Good program. I’m sure Brian Wiese would disagree with you.

It’s been explained to you that different players take different paths for different reasons. There isn’t just one way to do it.

Enjoy today’s game.

Quick Wikipedia search says 100% of Georgetown alumni played pro domestically. No one played/plays abroad.

They start their professional career later on, play a lower level of soccer comparative to their peers across the world which sets them behind and lowers the quality of both our domestic leagues and the depth of our national team pool.

[shoothoops]

Thanks, Chicos

I don’t know what that means but if she or he played college soccer, great.

[shoothoops]

Quick Wikipedia search says 100% of Georgetown alumni played pro domestically. No one played/plays abroad.

They start their professional career later on, play a lower level of soccer comparative to their peers across the world which sets them behind and lowers the quality of both our domestic leagues and the depth of our national team pool.

Sigh.

Perhaps the fact you are using Wikipedia would tell you that not all Wikipedia pages are complete or accurate.

Do your own homework next time. Example:

Jacob Montes:

Portland Timbers Academy
College at Georgetown
Portland Timbers 2 MLS Next Pro
Signed with Crystal Palace, Premier League.
He had work visa issues and then played in Belgium and Brazil.

These aren’t 27 year olds. Schulte the previousy used example, plays for the U23 Olympic Team, He played multiple years of college soccer as well as 2 years of pro soccer. And he isn’t even 23.

Many college teams also take International trips every few years for cultural experiences, to play teams in other countries, as well as in some cases, to see some of their alums who play abroad too. It’s a big thing these days, just like in hoops.

Maybe take it elsewhere if you aren’t interested in college soccer.

[panda]

Sigh.

Perhaps the fact you are using Wikipedia would tell you that not all Wikipedia pages are complete or accurate.

Do your own homework next time. Example:

Jacob Montes:

Portland Timbers Academy
College at Georgetown
Portland Timbers 2 MLS Next Pro
Signed with Crystal Palace, Premier League.
He had work visa issues and then played in Belgium and Brazil.

These aren’t 27 year olds. Schulte the previousy used example, plays for the U23 Olympic Team, He played multiple years of college soccer as well as 2 years of pro soccer. And he isn’t even 23.

Many college teams also take International trips every few years for cultural experiences, to play teams in other countries, as well as in some cases, to see some of their alums who play abroad too. It’s a big thing these days, just like in hoops.

Maybe take it elsewhere if you aren’t interested in college soccer.

He probably didn’t graduate which is why he isn’t listed. One player struggling to make an impact abroad doesn’t exactly reinforce your point much either buddy. Oh and I wonder why he struggled with a work permit…..Could it be a lack of involvement in a national team set up ? Pretty challenging to play in the national team set up while you’re in college…Or gain status by playing in a fifa recognized league…

I don’t need to dig in too deep because I already know the answer to my question. The ceiling of the majority of players playing college soccer now is MLS. A lot of that has to do with the low level of play compared to their peers elsewhere.

I’m happy you enjoy college soccer, but it is a major problem in developing  depth.

[shoothoops]

He probably didn’t graduate which is why he isn’t listed. One player struggling to make an impact abroad doesn’t exactly reinforce your point much either buddy. Oh and I wonder why he struggled with a work permit…..Could it be a lack of involvement in a national team set up ? Pretty challenging to play in the national team set up while you’re in college…Or gain status by playing in a fifa recognized league…

I don’t need to dig in too deep because I already know the answer to my question. The ceiling of the majority of players playing college soccer now is MLS. A lot of that has to do with the low level of play compared to their peers elsewhere.

I’m happy you enjoy college soccer, but it is a major problem in developing  depth.

Keep movin’ those goalposts.

And here I thought someone else was the most obtuse poster since Warden Samuel Norton, but that appears to be you.

There were 37 MLS and MLS Next pro players in the 2022 World Cup.

No offense and it’s nothing personal but we’re not buddies, we’ve never met. Is there a “bro”in there somewhere too?

[shoothoops]

1pm home game for Marquette Men’s Soccer. (92 RPI) And it’s a big one vs Georgetown. (5 RPI)

Georgetown 2 Marquette 1

Big East Title for Georgetown.

32nd goal was a set piece corner, near post run Zengue to Jennings.

73rd minute goal was a nice end run hustle play from Viera to Murrell for his 11th. 7 defenders in the box. 5 were caught ball watchin’.

MU got one back in the 76th minute. Danis was rewarded for a back post run on a too high near post service from Marquez who took a ball in space right side of the box.

But it wasn’t enough. Fun game.