MLB hot stove discussion 2018/19 off season

[WI inferiority Complexes]

From Paul Sullivan:

While anything can happen, Epstein on Friday downplayed the rumor that Bryant was available via trade trade Bryant.

“I answered a general question about whether we have untouchables,” the Cubs president said. “Like most every organization, we will listen to anything, but that’s just an operating philosophy.

“We are lucky to have some impact players and we are looking to add to them, not subtract.”

[GGGG]

Sure, if sports fans across the nation suffered collective amnesia, he'd be right. But since that's not likely, most fans would remember the players who are gone, recognize that what's on the field is an inferior product and turn away in droves. Like in 1987, when football fans stayed away en masse from the NFL's replacement games.

But fans came back to the NFL.  Remember James had a three year window.  Would fans come back in three years?  That's the question.

[buckchuckler]

But fans came back to the NFL.  Remember James had a three year window.  Would fans come back in three years?  That's the question.

The fans came back when the same players came back.  How long would it take to get the entire league back to the same level with all new players.  5 years? Probably too short, guys drafted out of college, high end ones, usually take 3 years or so to develop.  Mid tier guys longer, HS guys longer still, international guys longer still.  It may take 10 years or more the get the league to the talent level it is at now.  Even without considering the All-Star level players. 

[Pakuni]

But fans came back to the NFL.  Remember James had a three year window.  Would fans come back in three years?  That's the question.

Right ... because the real players came back. That's not what James is suggesting. He's suggesting the real players never come back and in three years major league parks are packed to see scabs.
I find that unlikely, sans collective amnesia. If it were the game itself that filled seats, and not seeing the best players in the world, minor league ballparks around the country will be packed. They're not, of course.

[Lennys Tap]

Huh, does he have that reputation?  I had no idea.  It isn't like that has been his thing for like 20 years.

Buck, I am assuming teal here. My point was that some players sign with a team that offers less $ than another. Scott Boras clients do not - and they know that when they hire him.

[buckchuckler]

Buck, I am assuming teal here. My point was that some players sign with a team that offers less $ than another. Scott Boras clients do not - and they know that when they hire him.

Yes sir.  Sorry for any ambiguity. 

[GB Warrior]

This seems much ado about nothing. Epstein was asked if he considered Bryant and Rizzo "untouchables" for trades and he said words to the effect of, "I've never considered a player untouchable and I'm not going to do that now."
That somehow has been spun into "The Cubs will consider trading Bryant." I mean, that's not totally wrong, but it's awfully misleading.

Agree. He'll be traded in time, but it won't be this year. He will be one of the casualties of the fact that they can't pay all of their young guys.

With this many years of control left, I can't picture a package that would satisfy Theo

[buckchuckler]

Agree. He'll be traded in time, but it won't be this year. He will be one of the casualties of the fact that they can't pay all of their young guys.

With this many years of control left, I can't picture a package that would satisfy Theo

Eloy, Cease, Rose and Flete?

[Vander Blue Man Group]

They know it's a long shot to re-sign him eventually. Rumors have been out there for a while that he's always been pissed about the service time issue, and he was going to 100% test the market when the time comes. Shoulder is probably an issue, but I'm personally not surprised by this news.

I can see the Cubs and Mets being trading partners here.

Rumors abound that the Cubs are not only open to trading Bryant, but are "making an effort" to trade him.

My first thought here is that his shoulder must be a problem, I just don't understand why else they would shop him.

The initial report I saw I didn't mention because it was just a "there are not untouchables" deal, which doesn't mean much, but since there have been some report that it may be more than that. 

I can't see it happening.  Who knows though.

Great stuff, as usual. 

[buckchuckler]

Great stuff, as usual.

Well, you have the stupid pissing matches covered, so I thought I would just relay stories that people that don't follow the offseason may have missed.  Sorry it wasn't up to your standards. 

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Well, you have the stupid pissing matches covered, so I thought I would just relay stories that people that don't follow the offseason may have missed.  Sorry it wasn't up to your standards.

Come on - posting the Bryant stuff was laughable as was what Buster Olney turned an innocuous comment into.  Pure clickbait.

You also got extra worked up about legitimate questions about the Sox pursuit of Harper and Machado.  Maybe some of it was semantics but I wasn't trying to be a dick. 

I've said it before that I think Hahn has done a really nice job so far but there's still a long way to go. 

[buckchuckler]

Come on - posting the Bryant stuff was laughable as was what Buster Olney turned an innocuous comment into.  Pure clickbait.

You also got extra worked up about legitimate questions about the Sox pursuit of Harper and Machado.  Maybe some of it was semantics but I wasn't trying to be a dick. 

I've said it before that I think Hahn has done a really nice job so far but there's still a long way to go.

This was a legitimate question?  Hmmm.  Weird.

Also not aware I got worked up.  I pointed out, several times, how your "point" was completely null.

Also, I know the original story was clickbait, which is why I specifically said I didn't mention anything about it until there were other reports basically backing it up saying the Cubs were pursuing offers.  But I should know by this point I won't have any sort of actual discussion with you.

[DegenerateDish]

Great stuff, as usual.

Do you pay any attention to what’s going on in the background with the Cubs? Why do you think the Bryant info got leaked? Do you think it’s a coincidence the two leaked stories this offseason are “Bryant turns down $200 mil” and “Cubs may trade Bryant”? You’re not that obtuse of a poster, but if you can’t see what’s going on behind the scenes, I don’t know what to tell you.

Is he going to get traded this offseason? Who knows. Do I think he’ll be a Cub in 2022? No.

[CreightonWarrior]

Giants looking to dump Bumgarner, Brewers and Phillies said to be interested. I really hope the Brewers don't give up the farm for a one year rental.

[MUBurrow]

Giants looking to dump Bumgarner, Brewers and Phillies said to be interested. I really hope the Brewers don't give up the farm for a one year rental.

There are some real warning signs starting to creep up with MadBum too.  He's been the most important piece to the Giants' awesome "every other year" streak, but a team expecting him to put them over the top in 2019 is going to be disappointed methinks.

[GB Warrior]

There are some real warning signs starting to creep up with MadBum too.  He's been the most important piece to the Giants' awesome "every other year" streak, but a team expecting him to put them over the top in 2019 is going to be disappointed methinks.

Most importantly, what's the point in keeping Schoop if he can't relive his only good moment in a Brewers uniform.

[CreightonWarrior]

In regards to Amazon potentially picking up the regional Fox channels, I'm excited for the potential to get better access to Brewers games out of market.

[Chili]

In regards to Amazon potentially picking up the regional Fox channels, I'm excited for the potential to get better access to Brewers games out of market.

MLB has by far the best access of anyone to out of town games. $100 / year for streaming both radio & tv. The app works really with my FireTV. Throw the VPN on if I need to change my market. NBA only gets you TV. NFL - well they suck completely. Bless Reddit Streams for NFL games.

[buckchuckler]

Giants looking to dump Bumgarner, Brewers and Phillies said to be interested. I really hope the Brewers don't give up the farm for a one year rental.

Yeah, the Brewers were a game from being in the World Series last year, this is not the time to recklessly go for it.

[🏀]

Yeah, the Brewers were a game from being in the World Series last year, this is not the time to recklessly go for it.

Bold strategy Cotton.

[dgies9156]

One of the most interesting issues with baseball free agency is the impact it is having on team identity and the face of a team in its region.

Maybe it is because I qualify as an old-timer, but every city had its superstar. The Cubs had Ernie Banks. The Cardinals had Stan Musial. The Yankees had Mickey Mantle. The Dodgers had... well, the Dodgers had boatloads. The Braves (Milwaukee and Atlanta) had Hank Aaron. And so on... These guys did winter road shows, they signed autographs and they did enough public relations to choke a horse. Heck, until he died, Ernie Banks was everywhere!

It's tough to identify with a baseball player now. Kris Bryant is a good point. The well has been so poisoned by the service time issues related to the Cubs that I see no way Bryant will be back after his contract expires. You don't forget stuff like that if you are a ballplayer. No one thought this kid could have been the next face of the franchise -- or they were too caught up in nickels and dimes to think that way.

Albert Pujos was even worse. The Cardinals offered him $200 million to play baseball in St. Louis. His nickname was el hombre and he was going to be on the same level with Stan the Man, who was an icon in St. Louis long after he retired. The Angels offered him $240 million to play in Orange County. So he leaves and his wife says goodbye by claiming the Cardinals disrespected she and her husband by not exceeding the Angels offer.

Every team has had this issue with at least one player. That's the hard part about baseball. It's about the players and their relationship with the community in which they play. That relationship really doesn't exist anymore.

[GGGG]

One of the most interesting issues with baseball free agency is the impact it is having on team identity and the face of a team in its region.

Maybe it is because I qualify as an old-timer, but every city had its superstar. The Cubs had Ernie Banks. The Cardinals had Stan Musial. The Yankees had Mickey Mantle. The Dodgers had... well, the Dodgers had boatloads. The Braves (Milwaukee and Atlanta) had Hank Aaron. And so on... These guys did winter road shows, they signed autographs and they did enough public relations to choke a horse. Heck, until he died, Ernie Banks was everywhere!

It's tough to identify with a baseball player now. Kris Bryant is a good point. The well has been so poisoned by the service time issues related to the Cubs that I see no way Bryant will be back after his contract expires. You don't forget stuff like that if you are a ballplayer. No one thought this kid could have been the next face of the franchise -- or they were too caught up in nickels and dimes to think that way.

Albert Pujos was even worse. The Cardinals offered him $200 million to play baseball in St. Louis. His nickname was el hombre and he was going to be on the same level with Stan the Man, who was an icon in St. Louis long after he retired. The Angels offered him $240 million to play in Orange County. So he leaves and his wife says goodbye by claiming the Cardinals disrespected she and her husband by not exceeding the Angels offer.

Every team has had this issue with at least one player. That's the hard part about baseball. It's about the players and their relationship with the community in which they play. That relationship really doesn't exist anymore.

Is this a post from 1978 or something?

The biggest problem with baseball is that it's become a regional sport instead of a national one.  With all local games on TV, people watch their team and don't bother with the national broadcasts.  So they really don't know much beyond the local.

[Spotcheck Billy]

One of the most interesting issues with baseball free agency is the impact it is having on team identity and the face of a team in its region.

Maybe it is because I qualify as an old-timer, but every city had its superstar. The Cubs had Ernie Banks. The Cardinals had Stan Musial. The Yankees had Mickey Mantle. The Dodgers had... well, the Dodgers had boatloads. The Braves (Milwaukee and Atlanta) had Hank Aaron. And so on... These guys did winter road shows, they signed autographs and they did enough public relations to choke a horse. Heck, until he died, Ernie Banks was everywhere!

It's tough to identify with a baseball player now. Kris Bryant is a good point. The well has been so poisoned by the service time issues related to the Cubs that I see no way Bryant will be back after his contract expires. You don't forget stuff like that if you are a ballplayer. No one thought this kid could have been the next face of the franchise -- or they were too caught up in nickels and dimes to think that way.

Albert Pujos was even worse. The Cardinals offered him $200 million to play baseball in St. Louis. His nickname was el hombre and he was going to be on the same level with Stan the Man, who was an icon in St. Louis long after he retired. The Angels offered him $240 million to play in Orange County. So he leaves and his wife says goodbye by claiming the Cardinals disrespected she and her husband by not exceeding the Angels offer.

Every team has had this issue with at least one player. That's the hard part about baseball. It's about the players and their relationship with the community in which they play. That relationship really doesn't exist anymore.

Isn't this true for all sports in this age? IMO Free agency has allowed the players to get paid and like most humans they would rather work for the employer that pays best.

I'm OK with that, times change.

[Pakuni]

Every team has had this issue with at least one player. That's the hard part about baseball. It's about the players and their relationship with the community in which they play. That relationship really doesn't exist anymore.

Let's not forget that teams have never had a problem severing the relationship between a player and the community in which he plays when injury, age or something else diminishes his performance.

[Lennys Tap]

Let's not forget that teams have never had a problem severing the relationship between a player and the community in which he plays when injury, age or something else diminishes his performance.

Exactly. Curt Flood will be forever remembered as baseball's most important player - he made the players millionaires and (against their will) the stodgy old owners billionaires.