The NBA and China

[tower912]

I am just thrilled to see Heisy so concerned with the oppressed.   Good on ya, mate.

[Not A Serious Person]

Are people on scoop defending the act of Americans being censored by other americans due to the whims of a foriegn country? Weird take.

That is exactly what they are doing.

For instance, two posts above Galway is taking the unconscionable position that he is all for the Chinese Government deciding what American entertainment and news companies broadcast to Americans on American TV.

I am just thrilled to see Heisy so concerned with the oppressed.   Good on ya, mate.

But, you are missing the point (like just about everyone else here). 

This is about the Chinese Government dictating censorship rules to American companies INSIDE the United States.

[Galway Eagle]

That is exactly what they are doing.

For instance, two posts above Galway is taking the unconscionable position that he is all for the Chinese Government deciding what American entertainment and news companies broadcast to Americans on American TV.


But, you are missing the point (like just about everyone else here). 

This is about the Chinese Government dictating censorship rules to American companies INSIDE the United States.

That is not what I am taking, I am taking the position that you made a false equivalency between Fox News and Disney. I am not taking a pro censorship stance.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

538 did a podcast almost two weeks ago about the China/NBA controversy. It would have been easy enough for you to find had you bothered to insert "538 China nba" into a Google search.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/were-changing-how-we-think-about-the-nba/

LOL.  Heisey, heisey, heisey...

[tower912]

I completely get your point.  China has been doing versions of it for years, trying to dictate coverage.  This is common knowledge.   Corporations value their money and market far too much to make a stink.  The NBA is in a terrible position.    Why the sudden interest on your part?   

[Not A Serious Person]

538 did a podcast almost two weeks ago about the China/NBA controversy. It would have been easy enough for you to find had you bothered to insert "538 China nba" into a Google search.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/were-changing-how-we-think-about-the-nba/

Serious question ... do you work for a Chinese owned company? Or do you have a large number of Chinese customers?  Because you are trying really hard ... too hard.

[Pakuni]

Serious question ... do you work for a Chinese owned company? Or do you have a large number of Chinese customers?  Because you are trying really hard ... too hard.

I'm actually a bot controlled by troll farm outside Guangzhou.
And yeah, I'm the one trying too hard.

[Galway Eagle]

You did

Please quote my post, tell me where I said anything along the lines of "Disney should be censoring themselves in china" I was attacking your comparison with Fox news that's all.

[Not A Serious Person]

LOL.  Heisey, heisey, heisey...

Did you listen to it?  It was a few minutes buried in the middle of one random podcast two weeks ago, which essentially said noting.

Designed to say the words "China." "Morey" and "NBA" in the same sentence without upsetting their Chinese paymasters, or censorship apologists like Pakuni and Galoway.

Meanwhile, they have posted dozens of NBA related content since and have not addressed it again.

I completely get your point.  China has been doing versions of it for years, trying to dictate coverage.  This is common knowledge.   Corporations value their money and market far too much to make a stink.  The NBA is in a terrible position.    Why the sudden interest on your part?   

Because this is a thread about the NBA/China controversy. 

Why do you think this is a non-story?  Because this is what you are suggesting.

[tower912]

It is a story.  And it will continue and grow.  But it is just a new chapter in an old story.

[Not A Serious Person]

Please quote my post, tell me where I said anything along the lines of "Disney should be censoring themselves in china" I was attacking your comparison with Fox news that's all.

You STILL don't get it.  This is not about Disney censoring themselves in China.  This is about them taking orders from China to censor themselves in the United States.

[Pakuni]

It is a story.  And it will continue and grow.  But it is just a new chapter in an old story.

Heisy's first post on the topic explains his sudden interest in human rights.

[Galway Eagle]

You STILL don't get it.  This is not about Disney censoring themselves in China.  This is about them taking orders from China to censor themselves in the United States.

Ok then tell me where I advocated for Disney censoring themselves in the states. You made a Fox news comparison I said at least with Disney's money they're creating job from keeping the Chinese market whereas Fox is just pandering to an audience. That's very different than saying "Disney should be censoring themselves to the demands of the Chinese government" one is showing a terrible comparison and finding a positive, the other is advocating for censorship

[Not A Serious Person]

I'm actually a bot controlled by troll farm outside Guangzhou.
And yeah, I'm the one trying too hard.

You are trying really hard to dismiss this entire story ... just like a Joe Tsai (owner of the Brooklyn Nets).

[Not A Serious Person]

Ok then tell me where I advocated for Disney censoring themselves in the states. You made a Fox news comparison I said at least with Disney's money they're creating job from keeping the Chinese market whereas Fox is just pandering to an audience. That's very different than saying "Disney should be censoring themselves to the demands of the Chinese government" one is showing a terrible comparison and finding a positive, the other is advocating for censorship

Your problem is the words "Fox News" seems to trigger you.  After that, all rational thought disappears.

[Galway Eagle]

Your problem is the words "Fox News" seems to trigger you.  After that, all rational thought disappears.

Your problem is making horrible comparisons. You know I wasn't advocating for censorship and now you're changing the argument because you were caught lying to fit a narrative.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Did you listen to it?  It was a few minutes buried in the middle of one random podcast two weeks ago, which essentially said noting.

Ah now comes the goalpost shifting.

Never change Heisey!!!!

[Pakuni]

You are trying really hard to dismiss this entire story ... just like a Joe Tsai (owner of the Brooklyn Nets).

No, I'm not dismissing the story. The story is legit.
I'm dismissing your hot (and false) takes on the story and efforts to spin it to fit your biases (namely, against "liberals" and outspoken athletes).

For example, you claim that 538 has done nothing on the controversy and that's proof that Disney is censoring on behalf of the Chinese government. Of course, not only has 538 covered it, but so have other Disney entities. Go to ESPN.com and you can find 19 stories on he topic posted since Morey's tweet (not to mention all the on-air coverage). That's more than one story per day, if you're counting.
Go to ABCnews.com and you'll find more than a dozen stories. It's been covered on-air multiple times by "Good Morning, America." It's been covered by ABC radio.
Where's all this censorship you keep talking about?

If your argument were as simple as "American corporations are willing to look past China's human rights records to bolster profits" not one person here would take issue with that. What people are taking issue with is the phony spin you're putting on it.

[rocky_warrior]

Heisy.  Knock off your political agenda.  Lay into china as much as you want.  I'm all for that.

[Cheeks]

Heisy.  Knock off your political agenda.  Lay into china as much as you want.  I'm all for that.

Yes...what he said. ^^^^^

[Not A Serious Person]

Ok, message received.

So, in an effort to move on ... I'm fascinated by how the NBA works way through this situation.

And in the middle might be Joe Tsai, he is executive vice chairman of Alibaba, the leading e-commerce company in China, which has ties to the government, as well as chairman of the South China Morning Post, Hong Kong’s most influential newspaper which has had to walk a fine line amid the protests.

Tsai paid a record $3.4 for the Brooklyn Nets so he could make them a popular team in China, precisely to capture the money from the Chinese market.  This now seems to be gone and his investment is exploding in his face.  And with it a good part of the league's financial structure.

This is what the home games in Brooklyn turned into (from last night's game)



and this,

Producer and activist Andrew Duncan bought 300 tickets to tonight's Nets vs Raptors game and is hosting hundreds of Chinese pro-Democracy activists to protest the NBA.

They're all wearing "Stand With Hong Kong" t-shirts



So, let me ask ... how does the NBA work its way out of this? Or, it cannot and lost China's money.  This means a 15% salary cap reduction, or $400 to $500 million less next year for total salaries?

This will fundamentally change the league.

For instance, the Lakers' active roster cap is $115 million this year.  If it takes a 15% hit, it is $98 million next year.  A $17 million reduction.

Lebron, AD and Danny Green will be $79m of next year's projected $97m cap.  That leaves $18m to pay 12 other players to complete the team's roster.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/los-angeles-lakers/cap/

Next year the Lakers might be LeBron, AD, Green and effectively a G-league roster. (unless they agree to reduce their contracts).  Ditto Golden State, the Clippers and the Nets.

Do you agree this means big changes next year?

[forgetful]

So, let me ask ... how does the NBA work its way out of this? Or, it cannot and lost China's money.  This means a 15% salary cap reduction, or $400 to $500 million less next year for total salaries?

This will fundamentally change the league.

For instance, the Lakers' active roster cap is $115 million this year.  If it takes a 15% hit, it is $98 million next year.  A $17 million reduction.

Lebron, AD and Danny Green will be $79m of next year's projected $97m cap.  That leaves $18m to pay 12 other players to complete the team's roster.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/los-angeles-lakers/cap/

Next year the Lakers might be LeBron, AD, Green and effectively a G-league roster. (unless they agree to reduce their contracts).  Ditto Golden State, the Clippers and the Nets.

Do you agree this means big changes next year?

Or owners don't profit as much.

[Not A Serious Person]

Or owners don't profit as much.

They don't profit much at all now.  They pretty much run these teams at breakeven now.

So while Ballmer (Clippers) and Tasi (Nets) would be willing to run at a big loss.  Reinsdorf (Bulls), Simon (Pacers), Gores (Pistons) Taylor (Timberwolves) will fight taking losses to the point of a lockout.  They are not in the position to eat another $20m/year.

Remember the NBA agrees to a league-wide salary cap restricting what every team can spend on salaries.  This is to provide a competitive balance and not have teams compete on the size of their owner's checkbooks.

If they ditch the salary cap, 10+ teams will folder.  They cannot compete with Tsai and Ballmer.

[tower912]

Which come full circle to my original post in this thread.    Principle versus principal.  The eternal conundrum.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

God Bless America!