Total wealth since 1989

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

OK ... I think you've seen that I've defended Millennials and asked Boomers to stop generalizing too much about them. But here you are, generalizing a ton about Boomers and what we faced.

I'll start with this:

Boomers did not enter the market facing a housing shortage of this magnitude. Boomers did not have to compete with the Silent Generation and Greatest Generation buying up starter homes because they can. Boomers weren't carrying staggering student loan debts and facing record inflation, both of which are far outpacing wages. Boomers didn't have two housing crises within a dozen years of each other right as they were entering the housing market. When Boomers entered the market, houses were being built at record rates and since the great recession they are being built at the lowest rate in decades.

Some of that is true, some is questionable (Boomers didn't face high inflation?), and it also omits plenty.

Boomers around my age and older faced a recession, staggering inflation and record-high mortgage rates. Rates have only recently gone from historic lows (under 3%) up to 6%+, and I get that makes it difficult for some to get mortgages now. But TAMU, do you know what the 30-year mortgage rate was when we bought our first house in 1985? Fourteen effen percent! The only way we qualified was to get a 1-year ARM at the wonderful rate of 8 7/8% ... and then we had to sweat it out -- how high would it climb after that? The loans we got on our cars were 12% or higher.

Oh, and there were just about no jobs when I graduated in 1982 -- it was a very deep and painful recession, and things were just starting to get better 2-3 years later. I had student loans to pay back, as did my wife; it took us years. Yes, all of the costs were lower -- houses, cars, college education -- but our salaries also were a relative pittance back then.

No, we didn't face the same kind of housing shortage there is now, but every time we looked at a house we even kind of liked, it seemed like it was just a little too expensive for us to buy.

I'm sure there are Boomers who had an easier path, but probably not as many as you think. TAMU, you make it sound like we all were swimming in cash, that recessions and inflation didn't exist, that mortgage rates were wonderful, and that we could simply pick and choose among the zillions of available houses because we could afford them all. Come on, man!

Yes, I sympathize with what younger generations are facing now when it comes to housing. My son is in his mid-30s and he and his wife bought their first house (Chicago area) about 2 years ago. They went into the process with a long list of what they wanted, but reality soon hit -- they couldn't get close to buying their dream house. They ended up buying a big house in a good suburb but it needs a TON of work, almost top to bottom, and they are not handy. They are learning to do what they can themselves but otherwise slowly paying for the most important projects to be done. They were, however, very lucky to get a historically low mortgage rate -- they couldn't have bought without it, and I definitely can see how even today's rates (which are half of what many Boomers faced) are preventing them from buying homes.

As for all the other stuff people are saying here -- what Millennials spend on avocado toast and all that other crap, I'm not gonna go there. So much is exaggerated, over-generalized, and/or full of anecdotal "evidence." Some Millennials throw money around like they are rich, some hoard it like they are poor, and most are somewhere in between.

Mike, I didn't say Boomers didn't face issues. But collectively they faced a lot less issues buying a house than millennials have. That's indisputable. And bluntly, boomers were swimming in cash compared to millennials, especially boomers who could afford to go to college.

Using your graduation year, the average straight out of college salary in 1982 was $22,449 which translates $68,898 today. Comparatively, the average salary straight out of college now is $55,260. Cost of college has greatly outpaced inflation so that means today's graduates are paying significantly more for worse value (in terms of starting salary after graduation). Boomers at this point in their careers owned 21% of the wealth in the US. Millennials own 5%. Couple that with a housing shortage and people staying in their houses longer than ever and you have the current mess.

[tower912]

I wonder what the square footage is of each Scooper’s house. Also, what they named their pets.

1300.  No pets

[Spotcheck Billy]

I wonder what the square footage is of each Scooper’s house. Also, what they named their pets.

975sq

Our dogs over the years: Brute, Missy, Colin, Tango, Spook, Faith, Marley

[Uncle Rico]

1300.  No pets

75,000 and two dogs named Nixon and Richard

[dgies9156]

I wonder what the square footage is of each Scooper’s house. Also, what they named their pets.

Square Footage:  Classified

Name of my Canine:  Duncan (a cocker spaniel)

Housing affordability is a complex calculation that's a function of downpayment, taxes, mortgage terms and insurance costs.

For example, in the Denver suburb where my 26-year-old just married daughter lives, houses run from $500,000 to $800,000. But property taxes are $2,000 to $2,500 annually and insurance is about $750 to $1,500 annually.

In the suburb where I lived in Chicago, the property taxes on a $550,000 home were more than $14,000 and the hazards were greater, leading to insurance bills of about $3,000.

My daughter and her husband are paying $1,800/month in rent. Assuming they can come up with 10 percent down, they could afford the Denver home. There's no way in hell they could afford the Chicago area home.

Of course, with the recent rise in mortgage interest rates, maybe they can't afford either. But that's probably transitory.

In Florida, I won't even go into taxes, they're ridiculously low. But homeowners insurance is outrageous. We looked at a home last spring and backed off when we were told the annual premiums were $15,000. It was frame and had no hurricane glass in it.

[MU82]

Mike, I didn't say Boomers didn't face issues. But collectively they faced a lot less issues buying a house than millennials have. That's indisputable. And bluntly, boomers were swimming in cash compared to millennials, especially boomers who could afford to go to college.

Using your graduation year, the average straight out of college salary in 1982 was $22,449 which translates $68,898 today. Comparatively, the average salary straight out of college now is $55,260. Cost of college has greatly outpaced inflation so that means today's graduates are paying significantly more for worse value (in terms of starting salary after graduation). Boomers at this point in their careers owned 21% of the wealth in the US. Millennials own 5%. Couple that with a housing shortage and people staying in their houses longer than ever and you have the current mess.

OK. Thanks for at least not suggesting again that Boomers didn't face inflation or recession!

Sounds like you Millennials need to work harder and stop buying the newest iPhone the day it comes out.

<ducks>

[ZiggysFryBoy]

I'd be embarrassed to be a millennial at this point.

[Scoop Snoop]

I wonder what the square footage is of each Scooper’s house. Also, what they named their pets.

Not classified like dgies. 2.000.  Also have 600 sq. ft. of 10' deep wraparound porch plus 12 acres for country living. Life is good.

Great Danes Tristan, Amadeus, Beagle Sasha, cats Smudge, Java, Casey, and horses Don Quixote and Amigo. Only Sasha and Casey still with us.

[ATL MU Warrior]

975sq

Our dogs over the years: Brute, Missy, Colin, Tango, Spook, Faith, Marley

??? 

[ATL MU Warrior]

I wonder what the square footage is of each Scooper’s house. Also, what they named their pets.

I’m not entirely sure on square footage as I recently finished basement and haven’t had appraised yet, but somewhere around 4,500? 

Our dog Eloise was a rescue and was already named when we got her.  Prior dog was also a rescue but we named her Margarita but called her Maggie/Mags/Magzilla depending on her behavior/our mood.

[real chili 83]

JB, can i count the man cave?

[lawdog77]

About 4500 square feet, I get about 100 of that as my own.
Three cats and one axolotl

[Herman Cain]

Lol. Cut 15 minutes off the commute, add a half bath, and change it to vintage 1950s with significant issues and that's what I'm currently renting. We tried to talk to our landlord about buying it off them and they told us that they can make a lot more renting it out.

And again, no one is arguing that there are no affordable houses period. The conversation is about the barriers to entry now versus when Boomers were entering the market. And yes, there are more barriers now, significantly more.

Tamu: I just sent a pm with a listing you can afford

[ATL MU Warrior]

About 4500 square feet, I get about 100 of that as my own.
Three cats and one axolotl

I had to look that up.  How on earth did it occur to you to get one of those as a pet?

[rocket surgeon]

I wonder what the square footage is of each Scooper’s house. Also, what they named their pets.

  depends on what you classify as a "pet"...moby and ozzie 

[Hards Alumni]

hards-
 
   even though i paid for my kids educations, i did leave them with around $20-25k of their own to pay back specifically so they could feel it a little bit.  however, it was no incentive to slack off.  how often today you hear of these kids taking off for europe for 2-3 mos because it seems to the thing?  my boys were at their jobs the monday after graduation and they haven't looked back.  my oldest son started out in the banking business as a teller, moved up to regional manager and is now regional marketing manager for one of the biggest banks in wisconsin.  my youngest has worked himself up to managing the web sales of a large local manufacturer for a large retail business and they want more

the most important thing we gave them is what was handed to us growing up-work ethic. 

  no surprise hards, that you don't see your own bitterness.  that usually takes some humility.  without that, you're missing a lot more than your bitterness.  ya don't know, what ya don't know and never will

Good for you.  I'm not bitter, homie.  What would I have to be bitter about?  I just want the next generation to not have to deal with the mess y'all are leaving us.

[Hards Alumni]

The discussion is interesting and deals with many subsets of why the Millennial generation is where they're at. I'll say it again, I don't think they're that much different than we boomers were, with a couple of exceptions.

What I will suggest is a couple of things. First, on college tuition, my very strong view is that college is a critical element to success. Even if you major in Philosophy, English or even Gender Studies, it teaches you to think and to adapt. Those are skills sorely needed in today's workforce. But the student has to be cognizant of the cost/benefit equation when a decision is made on institution, out-of-pocket tuition and the amount of debt they're taking on. I only see what is published, but it sure seems to me that the cost/benefit equation is often ignored.

The harsh reality is that we all can't go to Marquette. Some of us are fortunate enough to have resources behind us and don't have to worry about debt or tuition. Others may have to go to a smaller public university because that's what we can afford. Regardless, pick carefully and keep in mind that what you get out of college is a function of what you put into it. My children went to Southern Illinois University because of a special program SIU had. There's many great professors and great opportunities there -- if they took advantage of them!

Secondly, on housing, I've learned to HATE HGTV and House Hunters. HGTV has conditioned people to believe they can have a 3,000 square foot starter home with granite countertops, hardwood floors, white kitchens and stainless steel appliances (or whatever is popular today!). Buy what you can afford, keeping in mind that the amenities you need may be things other than what's found in the house. If you live in a major urban center, the great neighborhoods financially may be out of reach -- sorry, that's the market at work. Not even the government can fix that! If it could, San Francisco would be the most affordable city in America!

In the meantime, Millennials, please understand, your parents were just like you are -- 40 years ago! If that scares the hell out of you, too bad!

Pretty good until the last sentence.

[Hards Alumni]

There's an estimated housing shortage nationally of 3 million houses. But yes, the main culprit is because millennials standards are too high 

Boomers are living longer and staying in their houses longer which, coupled with less new homes being built has put us where we are.

That and the general movement of population to more urban settings.

[Hards Alumni]

I'd be embarrassed to be a millennial at this point.

That's because you're simple.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

That's because you're simple.

🤡🤡🤡

[4everwarriors]

Good for you.  I'm not bitter, homie.  What would I have to be bitter about?  I just want the next generation to not have to deal with the mess y'all are leaving us.

Kumbaya Bro, aina?

[lawdog77]

I had to look that up.  How on earth did it occur to you to get one of those as a pet?

My 10 year old son read about them and became obsessed. Although there are less than 1000 left in the wild, they are pretty easy to get as a pet in some areas. I think we paid $50 for ours.

[Scoop Snoop]

I saw this on another site-

"At my age, my parents had a house and a family. So do I, but it's the same house and same family."

[JWags85]

My 10 year old son read about them and became obsessed. Although there are less than 1000 left in the wild, they are pretty easy to get as a pet in some areas. I think we paid $50 for ours.

As someone who grew up around the aquarium hobby and still is an active participant, I was always familiar and used to see them a decent amount whether in online vendors or in specialty stores.  But over the last 4-5 years I feel like their popularity exploded.  I see them everywhere now.  Which is cool, given their predicament in the wild.  They are funky little dudes.

Did he get an albino one?

[Spotcheck Billy]

??? 

All but 1 of those dogs are dobermans from the same breeder the last 25 years. Spook's a 85 lb. fawn doberman that the breeder named. She (breeder) has a "name theme" for every litter. Long story short, we debated changing his name but didn't since she is AA and felt OK with the name, in fact she discouraged us from changing it.