Total wealth since 1989

[Uncle Rico]

Maybe Hermie wasn't clubbin' 5 nites/week, hey?

So, he’s not a dentist?

[brewcity77]

Yes, people can and do "pull themselves up by the bootstraps" and succeed.

The irony is that phrase originally meant a task was impossible to do. "You may as well try to pull yourself up by your bootstraps" which as any idiot who tried to pick themselves up off the ground by tugging on their shoes learns isn't something that is allowed by the laws of physics. Yet we've turned it into a motivational phrase as though it's a viable option to do the impossible.

No one has ever pulled themselves up by their bootstraps, and no one ever will.

[MU82]

The irony is that phrase originally meant a task was impossible to do. "You may as well try to pull yourself up by your bootstraps" which as any idiot who tried to pick themselves up off the ground by tugging on their shoes learns isn't something that is allowed by the laws of physics. Yet we've turned it into a motivational phrase as though it's a viable option to do the impossible.

No one has ever pulled themselves up by their bootstraps, and no one ever will.

Yes. I put it in quotes.

[dgies9156]

Would like to leave everybody with a few thoughts on wealth and on generations:

1) The intergenerational bickering in this room isn't new. We Boomers faced the same anger from our parents in the 1960s and 1970s. Especially when we grew our hair long, listened to rock-and-roll music (which everybody "knew" led to drug addiction and unlimited sex) and generally refused to trust anyone over 30. We were the best educated, best prepared generation ever. All we lacked was life experience, which came in time. All we wanted was the old farts to get out of the way and let us change the world. Eventually, they did. Most of our parents and elders have since died or are dying and we miss them! We truly do.

2) For those of you who think our generation gave nothing and left the world a mess, I'd hope you rethink your perspective. In 1962, my father hired a black professional for his office. One of his engineers came to him and reminded him that he was "in the south and we don't do that..." My Dad had to tell the young man that either he lives with it or he just resigned. That doesn't happen any more. Through the from the 1960s onward, it was Boomers who were on the front lines of the civil rights movement. It was our generation who passed the laws that created set-aides for folks that had been discriminated against. It was our generation who passed the laws and set policies that did our best to make sure we hired, retained and promoted African-Americans. We did our best to create affirmative action. "We" are all of us, not just one party or one segment of the population.

It's an amazing thing to imagine than in 50 years, we went from not allowing our African-American brothers and sisters to live, eat and even worship with us to electing an African-American President.

Again, using 1962 as an example, for most American women, the promise of a professional career in anything other than teaching and nursing was a fairy tail. By the 1970s, women were entering the professional workforce and by the 2000s, we began to see results. In 1980s, the notion of a woman CEO of a Fortune 1000 corporation was a pipedream. By 2020, it happened! In 2022, a woman is CEO of the most iconic American corporation -- General Motors. This didn't just happen. Many boomer women in the 1980s and 1990s put up with an awful lot to blaze a trail so that our daughters and grand-daughters would have comparable opportunities to our sons and grandsons.

Look, we didn't do everything we should. Even Lyndon Johnson acknowledged that 10 days before he died when he discussed his role in the civil rights revolution. But, in every phase of American life, we made a huge difference and it's up to the next generation to carry it forward. Look, Brother MU is right that there's a lot of people left behind and the next generation has to deal with that. But what our country gives is opportunity and my fear is addiction to government transfer payments and willingness in too many cases not to push ones self is a prescription for continuing problems. Like Brother MU, I don't know the answer but maybe our next generation does!

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I agree with your sentiments Dgies but just a couple nits to pick.

Would like to leave everybody with a few thoughts on wealth and on generations:

1) The intergenerational bickering in this room isn't new. We Boomers faced the same anger from our parents in the 1960s and 1970s. Especially when we grew our hair long, listened to rock-and-roll music (which everybody "knew" led to drug addiction and unlimited sex) and generally refused to trust anyone over 30. We were the best educated, best prepared generation ever. All we lacked was life experience, which came in time. All we wanted was the old farts to get out of the way and let us change the world. Eventually, they did. Most of our parents and elders have since died or are dying and we miss them! We truly do.

You're not wrong that boomers faced this when they were our age but it was on a different scale. When Boomers were the same age as millennials are now, they controlled 21% of the wealth in this country. Today, millennials control 5% of the wealth in the US. You wanted the old farts to get out of the way so you could change the world. Millennials need them to get out of the way just so they can do basic things like buy a house. Over the next 30 years or so we are going to see the largest generational transition of wealth in the history of the world. It's going to be fascinating to see how it plays out.

2) For those of you who think our generation gave nothing and left the world a mess, I'd hope you rethink your perspective. In 1962, my father hired a black professional for his office. One of his engineers came to him and reminded him that he was "in the south and we don't do that..." My Dad had to tell the young man that either he lives with it or he just resigned. That doesn't happen any more. Through the from the 1960s onward, it was Boomers who were on the front lines of the civil rights movement. It was our generation who passed the laws that created set-aides for folks that had been discriminated against. It was our generation who passed the laws and set policies that did our best to make sure we hired, retained and promoted African-Americans. We did our best to create affirmative action. "We" are all of us, not just one party or one segment of the population.

Actually it was the generation above boomers that were the ones that passed the most important pieces of legislation. The Civil Rights Act was signed in 1964. Boomers were born between 1946 and 1964, meaning that at the time the law was passed only the very oldest boomers could vote. That's not to diminish what your generation has done because you have been on the forefront of other movements such as legalizing interracial marriage, just adding context. I'll add that this does somewhat add to my generation's frustration with boomers because there was a time when you were on the front lines, but now many boomers are on the front lines again except they've crossed to the other side and are fighting against further progress on civil rights.

In general, I do agree that a lot of my generation makes the mistake of demonizing all boomers and ignoring the many positive contributions that they have made to the US. But it doesn't help when so many refuse to acknowledge the mistakes of the older generations the impact that it is having on the future generations. Yes a lot are willing to make vague statements of "we weren't perfect" and "we didn't do everything you should" but if something specific gets brought up it's usually meant with dismissiveness and defensiveness.

[MU82]

if something specific gets brought up it's usually meant with dismissiveness and defensiveness.

This hate-filled attack is not even worth a response.

[Pakuni]

I agree with your sentiments Dgies but just a couple nits to pick.

You're not wrong that boomers faced this when they were our age but it was on a different scale. When Boomers were the same age as millennials are now, they controlled 21% of the wealth in this country. Today, millennials control 5% of the wealth in the US. You wanted the old farts to get out of the way so you could change the world. Millennials need them to get out of the way just so they can do basic things like buy a house. Over the next 30 years or so we are going to see the largest generational transition of wealth in the history of the world. It's going to be fascinating to see how it plays out.

Actually it was the generation above boomers that were the ones that passed the most important pieces of legislation. The Civil Rights Act was signed in 1964. Boomers were born between 1946 and 1964, meaning that at the time the law was passed only the very oldest boomers could vote. That's not to diminish what your generation has done because you have been on the forefront of other movements such as legalizing interracial marriage, just adding context.

Good post, TAMU, but just to pick a nit ...
The Loving decision that legalized interracial marriage was decided in 1967 by the Warren Court, none of whom were Boomers. And the couple who brought the case, i.e. the Lovings, were part of the Silent Generation, both born during the 1930s. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Good post, TAMU, but just to pick a nit ...
The Loving decision that legalized interracial marriage was decided in 1967 by the Warren Court, none of whom were Boomers. And the couple who brought the case, i.e. the Lovings, were part of the Silent Generation, both born during the 1930s.

And you are correct. I remembered that it happened after the Civil Rights Acts were passed. I thought it was longer than 3 years.

[Goose]

TAMU

One comment on the % of wealth being far lower today for younger generations, I 100% believe that younger generations live a far different lifestyle than boomers did at the same age. IMO, the boomer generation may have some advantages, but I thiink our lifestyles were far less expensive. I do think the added expenditures in today's world makes it harder to save for young people. That being said, younger folks could spend less or add a side hustle to cover some of I feel is fringe costs.

Quick example of what I am talking about that relates to scoop, back in the day there were not many boomers (many with kids) that were planning Ft. Myers basketball or BE tournaments into their annual budget. Of course, there were fans that traveled (my family) did, but we were in the minority. I went to Catholic grade school in MKE and everyone was a MU fan in the 1970's and my friends were shocked and jealous of my going on road trips.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

TAMU

One comment on the % of wealth being far lower today for younger generations, I 100% believe that younger generations live a far different lifestyle than boomers did at the same age. IMO, the boomer generation may have some advantages, but I thiink our lifestyles were far less expensive. I do think the added expenditures in today's world makes it harder to save for young people. That being said, younger folks could spend less or add a side hustle to cover some of I feel is fringe costs.

Quick example of what I am talking about that relates to scoop, back in the day there were not many boomers (many with kids) that were planning Ft. Myers basketball or BE tournaments into their annual budget. Of course, there were fans that traveled (my family) did, but we were in the minority. I went to Catholic grade school in MKE and everyone was a MU fan in the 1970's and my friends were shocked and jealous of my going on road trips.

Goose you are right but I think you are being disingenuous with how much of that wealth gap is because of frivolous purchases. There are real examples such as phone costs. Boomers didn't have to worry about paying for cell phones, data, etc and they are a practical necessity in today's day and age. I think there are very few millennials who are going on frivolous road trips enough to significantly impact their savings. Most are living paycheck to paycheck as you pointed out earlier. I've been to plenty of those Thanksgiving MU tournaments (thanks to the generosity of my boomer father and gen x mother). I honestly can't recall a time where I saw a group of millennials there by themselves. Those crowds are at least 90% Gen X or older and the remaining 10% are mostly children of the 90%.

This would be an example of that dismissiveness I mentioned in my last post.

[LAZER]

TAMU

One comment on the % of wealth being far lower today for younger generations, I 100% believe that younger generations live a far different lifestyle than boomers did at the same age. IMO, the boomer generation may have some advantages, but I thiink our lifestyles were far less expensive. I do think the added expenditures in today's world makes it harder to save for young people. That being said, younger folks could spend less or add a side hustle to cover some of I feel is fringe costs.

Quick example of what I am talking about that relates to scoop, back in the day there were not many boomers (many with kids) that were planning Ft. Myers basketball or BE tournaments into their annual budget. Of course, there were fans that traveled (my family) did, but we were in the minority. I went to Catholic grade school in MKE and everyone was a MU fan in the 1970's and my friends were shocked and jealous of my going on road trips.

Isn't it a given that every previous generation's lifestyle is less expensive? And advocating millennials to pick up a side hustle to cover fringe costs kind of proves the point that millennials are worse off than boomers.

[dgies9156]

I agree with your sentiments Dgies but just a couple nits to pick.

Actually it was the generation above boomers that were the ones that passed the most important pieces of legislation. The Civil Rights Act was signed in 1964. Boomers were born between 1946 and 1964, meaning that at the time the law was passed only the very oldest boomers could vote. That's not to diminish what your generation has done because you have been on the forefront of other movements such as legalizing interracial marriage, just adding context. I'll add that this does somewhat add to my generation's frustration with boomers because there was a time when you were on the front lines, but now many boomers are on the front lines again except they've crossed to the other side and are fighting against further progress on civil rights.

In general, I do agree that a lot of my generation makes the mistake of demonizing all boomers and ignoring the many positive contributions that they have made to the US. But it doesn't help when so many refuse to acknowledge the mistakes of the older generations the impact that it is having on the future generations. Yes a lot are willing to make vague statements of "we weren't perfect" and "we didn't do everything you should" but if something specific gets brought up it's usually meant with dismissiveness and defensiveness.

Those demonstrators that marched from Selma to Montgomery included a lot of young, 18- to 20-year-old boomers. As did the Mississippi Freedom Summer. The legislation that's passed since -- including affirmative action, anti-discrimination provisions, anti-harassment etc., all is Boomer-based.

Goose you are right but I think you are being disingenuous with how much of that wealth gap is because of frivolous purchases. There are real examples such as phone costs. Boomers didn't have to worry about paying for cell phones, data, etc and they are a practical necessity in today's day and age.

In our day, we had land lines and long distance was paid for. My God was it expensive -- probably far more so on a present value basis than what we pay for cell phones. And, we got a lot less!

Lots of things are indeed cheaper. The aforementioned holiday tournaments are less expensive because President Carter pushed to deregulate transportation. The aforementioned phone service changes were possible because of deregulated phone service. Take artificial barriers out of the equation and costs often go down!

Brother TAMU, let me leave it at this -- sure we know there is too much poverty and too much suffering in this country. We also know we aren't perfect. There's going to be work to be done. Keep in mind that your generation will inevitably get our wealth -- heck, we can't take it with us -- and it's fine to see how society will change as your generation gets it.

I'll be up in heaven watching how you guys and gals deal with your children and grandchildren when they come of age.

[Goose]

Lazer

Like my post stated, most boomers had a lot less fringe expenses and no need for a side hustle. I believe that there are too many fringe expenses for everyone in the USA in 2022. For the record, my wife was a school teacher for many years and often tutored to make extra money to cover the cost of our kids in travel sports. Another expense that I believe that has gone beyond crazy.

One a side bar, I recently played golf with a fellow boomer, who has had a successful career, and he was playing with twenty-year-old clubs and we were paired with two guys in their 30's ho both had over $2k of clubs in their bags. I believe my buddy could likely afford a similar set of clubs, but he felt the cost of new clubs was insane and said he still likes his sticks (which was a lie).

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Those demonstrators that marched from Selma to Montgomery included a lot of young, 18- to 20-year-old boomers. As did the Mississippi Freedom Summer. The legislation that's passed since -- including affirmative action, anti-discrimination provisions, anti-harassment etc., all is Boomer-based.

Actually Dgies, affirmative action was 1965, so again, the generation above yours (boomers were 1-19 years old at the time). Anti-discrimination and anti-harassments was 1964 with additions being added through 1972. So again, mostly the generation above yours (Boomers were 0-18 in 1964 and 9-27 years old by 1972). Again, there were other things that Boomers led the charge on later so I'm not trying to diminish, just get the facts right. The pregnancy discriminations act, ADA, and FMLA are all great examples of boomer led civil rights legislation.

[dgies9156]

Actually Dgies, affirmative action was 1965, so again, the generation above yours (boomers were 1-19 years old at the time). Anti-discrimination and anti-harassments was 1964 with additions being added through 1972. So again, mostly the generation above yours (Boomers were 0-18 in 1964 and 9-27 years old by 1972). Again, there were other things that Boomers led the charge on later so I'm not trying to diminish, just get the facts right. The pregnancy discriminations act, ADA, and FMLA are all great examples of boomer led civil rights legislation.

The leading edge of our generation was marching (18) and to your point, others passed the laws but it was our generation that interpreted and enforced them. To your point, we also expanded them.

Ultimately, history will judge us and I believe quite favorably.

Watch you Millennials' children become Reagan-type Conservatives! It's possible LOL!

[cheebs09]

Lazer

Like my post stated, most boomers had a lot less fringe expenses and no need for a side hustle. I believe that there are too many fringe expenses for everyone in the USA in 2022. For the record, my wife was a school teacher for many years and often tutored to make extra money to cover the cost of our kids in travel sports. Another expense that I believe that has gone beyond crazy.

One a side bar, I recently played golf with a fellow boomer, who has had a successful career, and he was playing with twenty-year-old clubs and we were paired with two guys in their 30's ho both had over $2k of clubs in their bags. I believe my buddy could likely afford a similar set of clubs, but he felt the cost of new clubs was insane and said he still likes his sticks (which was a lie).

I’m sure there’s a lot of anecdotal examples of millennials spending on some nice things or things a different generation. Also, there’s a lot of millennials with generous parents that help set them up in a good spot. I see friends or neighbors that belong to a country club or drive nice cars. Although, I’d say I’m exposed to a pretty narrow subset of the population.

I don’t think those anecdotes mean that on the whole a generation is in a better spot. Just looking at the stats on the cost for a house or college compared to salaries 30 years ago show that some things that were available to boomers may not be as easily attainable to the current generation, and not just due to spending habits.

I don’t think saying kids these days just need to get a side hustle or cut down on the Starbucks and avocado toast if they want to own a home is seeing the situation for what it is.

[Goose]

cheebs

I understand your point and do not disagree. Only saying that since I became a parent in 1987, I cannot believe the added fringe costs we all face today. I'm simply saying that many people (myself included) spend differently that when boomers were a similar age. For the record, I do not think the sub 40 crowd is in a better spot, and would not argue, things are tougher today. Though, I do think fringe spending does not help the situation.

Truthfully, I have no idea how many people stay afloat on a monthly basis. I just checked my card balance and was floored on what I spent this weekend. I am trying to cut back big time and this weekend was not a cut back weekend, and we did not do or buy anything crazy.

[JWags85]

I’m sure there’s a lot of anecdotal examples of millennials spending on some nice things or things a different generation. Also, there’s a lot of millennials with generous parents that help set them up in a good spot. I see friends or neighbors that belong to a country club or drive nice cars. Although, I’d say I’m exposed to a pretty narrow subset of the population.

I don’t think those anecdotes mean that on the whole a generation is in a better spot. Just looking at the stats on the cost for a house or college compared to salaries 30 years ago show that some things that were available to boomers may not be as easily attainable to the current generation, and not just due to spending habits.

I don’t think saying kids these days just need to get a side hustle or cut down on the Starbucks and avocado toast if they want to own a home is seeing the situation for what it is.

I think its a combination.  And I don't even think it needs to be vilifying millennials.  The overall timeline of life (kids, home purchases, etc...) has shifted noticeably from previous generations and that leads to different money behaviors, IMO.

My parents generation (born in the 50s-60s) started looking to home ownership right away.  My dad bought a place immediately after graduating college when he moved to the city of his first job.  Thats a rarity, from my experience, these days, regardless of cost.  I graduated almost 15 years ago and you could easily find $250K houses/condos that were totally affordable on a $60K salary and I knew very very few people who were even considering it before their late 20s.  Coupled with delaying starting families (which often leads to a money tightening/saving behavior modification) and it starts to shift things.

Which then segues into travel.  Sure air travel isn't as comparatively expensive as it was 50-60-70 years ago, but attitudes towards travel have changed greatly.  Trips to Europe and Asia were once in a lifetime, wild jaunts even 20-30 years ago.  Now even "non-wealthy" younger people do it multiple times in their 20s/30s.  Even with kids.  My friends went to London and France with their 2 year old a couple months ago.  They doing decently well but wouldn't be considered affluent by any stretch of the imagination.  The thought of that even when I was a kid in the 90s seems crazy.  My parents took my younger sister and I to Germany in 1992, to visit my Aunt and Uncle who lived on a military base there.  I remember even then, in a very nice suburb, people thinking it was super abnormal.

Housing inflation and costs have gotten crazy.  Wages have lagged inflation.  And a variety of other factors that contributed to accumulated wealth of millennials trailing their comparison sets from previous generations.  But I agree with others that very real changes in saving, spending, and how money/purchasing/etc... is viewed has a pronounced impact as well.  And its not just some Dave Ramsey "these damn kids buy too many iPhones and have too much brunch" sort of thing.

[4everwarriors]

Goose you are right but I think you are being disingenuous with how much of that wealth gap is because of frivolous purchases. There are real examples such as phone costs. Boomers didn't have to worry about paying for cell phones, data, etc and they are a practical necessity in today's day and age. I think there are very few millennials who are going on frivolous road trips enough to significantly impact their savings. Most are living paycheck to paycheck as you pointed out earlier. I've been to plenty of those Thanksgiving MU tournaments (thanks to the generosity of my boomer father and gen x mother). I honestly can't recall a time where I saw a group of millennials there by themselves. Those crowds are at least 90% Gen X or older and the remaining 10% are mostly children of the 90%.

This would be an example of that dismissiveness I mentioned in my last post.

Just stay on the Family Plan and da old cell phone bill disappears ta nothin', aina?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I think its a combination.  And I don't even think it needs to be vilifying millennials.  The overall timeline of life (kids, home purchases, etc...) has shifted noticeably from previous generations and that leads to different money behaviors, IMO.

My parents generation (born in the 50s-60s) started looking to home ownership right away.  My dad bought a place immediately after graduating college when he moved to the city of his first job.  Thats a rarity, from my experience, these days, regardless of cost.  I graduated almost 15 years ago and you could easily find $250K houses/condos that were totally affordable on a $60K salary and I knew very very few people who were even considering it before their late 20s.  Coupled with delaying starting families (which often leads to a money tightening/saving behavior modification) and it starts to shift things.

Which then segues into travel.  Sure air travel isn't as comparatively expensive as it was 50-60-70 years ago, but attitudes towards travel have changed greatly.  Trips to Europe and Asia were once in a lifetime, wild jaunts even 20-30 years ago.  Now even "non-wealthy" younger people do it multiple times in their 20s/30s.  Even with kids.  My friends went to London and France with their 2 year old a couple months ago.  They doing decently well but wouldn't be considered affluent by any stretch of the imagination.  The thought of that even when I was a kid in the 90s seems crazy.  My parents took my younger sister and I to Germany in 1992, to visit my Aunt and Uncle who lived on a military base there.  I remember even then, in a very nice suburb, people thinking it was super abnormal.

Housing inflation and costs have gotten crazy.  Wages have lagged inflation.  And a variety of other factors that contributed to accumulated wealth of millennials trailing their comparison sets from previous generations.  But I agree with others that very real changes in saving, spending, and how money/purchasing/etc... is viewed has a pronounced impact as well.  And its not just some Dave Ramsey "these damn kids buy too many iPhones and have too much brunch" sort of thing.

I don't think you were attempting to say this but to clarify, the correct wording here is "Now a vast minority of "non-wealthy" younger people do it multiple times in their 20s/30s whearas it was an even vaster minority  when I was a kid in the 90s".

[Goose]

TAMU

I stated the MU travel to home games because this is a MU basketball site. I will add again the cost of kids sports today vs. back when I was kid. There are folks on here that can give accurate info for the cost today, but when I had three kids in travel sports the annual bill was well above $15k a year. Do that for a few years and buying a house becomes real difficult.

[Pakuni]

Might have something to do with this.

[4everwarriors]

Not for Paul Chryst. Dude gets chit-canned and likely will float down the river sippin' Mai Tais for da rest of his daze. Wear due ya get a gig like dat, hey?

[Goose]

Pakuni

If someone paid for their own college education, I agree that causes a major issue. I felt it was my responsibility to pay for our children to get an education and it did not cost them a dime. So, the cost of college should not weigh into their ability to save or buy a home.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Pakuni

If someone paid for their own college education, I agree that causes a major issue. I felt it was my responsibility to pay for our children to get an education and it did not cost them a dime. So, the cost of college should not weigh into their ability to save or buy a home.

Of course, but how many parents pay for all of it? According to Sofi, about 85% of parents pay for some college expenses, meaning 15% pay nothing. I couldn't find any data that specified how much of those 85% pay 100%, my guess is the majority do not. That 85% also counts parent plus loans as a parent making a payment. However in my wife's case, her parents took out parent plus loans but told her that she would be responsible for making all of the payments and she has made good on that promise until COVID put the loan in deferment.

There's also the reality that the increasing cost of college defers people from even attempting to get a college education, which is significant barrier when trying to accumulate wealth.