K-12 Schools & COVID

[Jockey]

Yeah, he has it all figured out...except he forgot to add the parts about passing it to their parents and grandparents, who will pass it to co-workers and others in senior centers, who will then flood the hospitals with an overwhelming wave of new cases and eventually deaths.

But other than that, he's probably spot on with the part about the kids.

What happens when a kid brings it home and the virus kills one of his parents after they caught it from him/her? 

Lifetime guilt?

[GB Warrior]

What happens when a kid brings it home and the virus kills one of his parents after they caught it from him/her? 

Lifetime guilt?

He can sleep soundly knowing that he enabled his parents to be productive cogs in the capitalistic wheel but for a little while.

[Plaque Lives Matter!]

He can sleep soundly knowing that he enabled his parents to be productive cogs in the capitalistic wheel but for a little while.

"Mommy and Daddy have to do their best to drive a growth based economy because their retirement funds depend on the market going up, Jimmy." "Is that why Daddy went to work while sick?"

[pacearrow02]

"Mommy and Daddy have to do their best to drive a growth based economy because their retirement funds depend on the market going up, Jimmy." "Is that why Daddy went to work while sick?"

https://mobile.twitter.com/justin_hart/status/1284663390456082432

Listen to the experts folks

[GB Warrior]

https://mobile.twitter.com/justin_hart/status/1284663390456082432

Listen to the experts folks

I look forward to this administration's unprecedented investment in public schools and the surrounding environments to make them safe for all inhabitants.

Dear God I worry about your echo chambers.
https://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/video/5-pediatricians-on-the-safety-of-schools-amid-pandemic-87569477784

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

If I felt they were safe, I would send my kids as well and wouldn't want them to start virtually.

[GooooMarquette]

If I felt they were safe, I would send my kids as well and wouldn't want them to start virtually.

Honest question: What factors would you consider for determining whether your kids would be safe? Community spread? Positivity rates? The availability of enough rapid and accurate test kits to conduct routine in-school testing?

My kids are past school age so my criteria aren't relevant - I'm more interested in the criteria of an informed and thoughtful parent of school-age kids.

[JWags85]

Honest question: What factors would you consider for determining whether your kids would be safe? Community spread? Positivity rates? The availability of enough rapid and accurate test kits to conduct routine in-school testing?

My kids are past school age so my criteria aren't relevant - I'm more interested in the criteria of an informed and thoughtful parent of school-age kids.

I don’t have kids myself, however I spoke to my good friend last night who has 4 under 6, including 18 month old twins. They’re in Columbus suburbs and his wife is a nurse, turned stay at home mom. They are most concerned with the general situation in their community. If things are stable and cases relatively calm, they are fine with their kids going back. There has been talk of temperature testing with the handheld units and immediate removal if a kid has a fever. They aren’t too tied to constant testing of kids at school.  FWIW

[Pakuni]

Honest question: What factors would you consider for determining whether your kids would be safe? Community spread? Positivity rates? The availability of enough rapid and accurate test kits to conduct routine in-school testing?

My kids are past school age so my criteria aren't relevant - I'm more interested in the criteria of an informed and thoughtful parent of school-age kids.

Parent of a middle and high schooler here.
I'm fortunate that my town and county has seen relatively few cases and no one in my household/immediate circle would be considered especially susceptible to COVID. So that weighs in our decision, as do the actions our schools will be taking to minimize risk (we're still waiting for their final plans). Masks and reasonable social distancing will be a must. My kids both attend smaller, private schools, so that helps as well. It'll be easy to keep kids in small groups, limit movement within the building, etc. And neither ride a bus to school.
We'll wait to see the schools' final plans, but based on our circumstances and what we know so far, our kids will likely have some in-person school.

FWIW, I've yet to hear of a school that's going to test kids. Everything I've seen from the schools in my area is that symptomatic kids will be quarantined until they can be picked up by parents and then won't be allowed back until after they receive a negative test.

[GB Warrior]

Honest question: What factors would you consider for determining whether your kids would be safe? Community spread? Positivity rates? The availability of enough rapid and accurate test kits to conduct routine in-school testing?

My kids are past school age so my criteria aren't relevant - I'm more interested in the criteria of an informed and thoughtful parent of school-age kids.

This is a good question, and quite frankly an easy one to avoid in reality because it's so obvious to me that we're not there, and there's no good faith conversation with one side of the political establishment on what those qualitative/quantitative metrics are to get there.

My thoughts on it with a kid that I'm withholding from his first formal schooling due to the risk, but am sending back to a childcare facility. For reasons that I won't expand on here, I trust that facility significantly more than a new school, but will admit that even childcare is beyond my comfort zone and is simply becoming an economic necessity.

• R rate near (preferably at or under) 1
• guarantee of appropriate PPE for faculty and underserved children
• Clearly documented contingency plans for students and faculty
• Full sick pay for all in-school employees- eliminate this very American culture of "toughing it out", or coming to work because of economics
• the obvious masking/sanitization protocols throughout
• I don't have grade-eligible kids, but I'd want an understanding of how absence policies would be applied
• Faster test results (needs to be within 24 to 48 hours to be anywhere near effective). In Wisconsin those tests are currently free. I'm not sure if that's the case elsewhere in the US

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Honest question: What factors would you consider for determining whether your kids would be safe? Community spread? Positivity rates? The availability of enough rapid and accurate test kits to conduct routine in-school testing?

My kids are past school age so my criteria aren't relevant - I'm more interested in the criteria of an informed and thoughtful parent of school-age kids.

My kids are all adults so it really doesn't apply to me.  But I would focus mostly on how they are planning to keep them safe within the school.  Spacing, masking, etc. 

[pacearrow02]

Honest question: What factors would you consider for determining whether your kids would be safe? Community spread? Positivity rates? The availability of enough rapid and accurate test kits to conduct routine in-school testing?

My kids are past school age so my criteria aren't relevant - I'm more interested in the criteria of an informed and thoughtful parent of school-age kids.

No specific criteria I looked for when we were having discussions with our school community.  Was really just looking for the totality of safety/mitigating protocols they were putting in place and what the contingency plan was if things go sideways.

That and the advice of our pediatrician has made us 100% comfortable with sending them back while knowing there are no guarantees they or we won’t end up getting it.

Thankfully all in good health so if we do get it I’m confident we’ll be back in our feet in no time.  Genuinely feel bad for kids and parents who live in districts that aren’t willing to give this an honest shot and hope they can get back to some sense of normalcy sooner then later.

[MU82]

No specific criteria I looked for when we were having discussions with our school community.  Was really just looking for the totality of safety/mitigating protocols they were putting in place and what the contingency plan was if things go sideways.

That and the advice of our pediatrician has made us 100% comfortable with sending them back while knowing there are no guarantees they or we won’t end up getting it.

Thankfully all in good health so if we do get it I’m confident we’ll be back in our feet in no time.  Genuinely feel bad for kids and parents who live in districts that aren’t willing to give this an honest shot and hope they can get back to some sense of normalcy sooner then later.

I feel bad for kids and parents who live in districts whose counties/municipalities are overrun by COVID-19, making it a non-starter to re-open schools.

Kids need school. They and their parents and grandparents and parents' co-workers do need to stay healthy and alive, though.

[tower912]

Meet up with the principals this evening.  Current intent is to have in person classes starting on August 19.  All parents who participated were respectful.   No vocal outliers.  Variations on the safety v opening graph.   

It can all go away if cases explode and the governor decides to close it down.

[pacearrow02]

I feel bad for kids and parents who live in districts whose counties/municipalities are overrun by COVID-19, making it a non-starter to re-open schools.

Kids need school. They and their parents and grandparents and parents' co-workers do need to stay healthy and alive, though.

Absolutely!  There are certainly counties where it would be a tough sell to open up in the fall. 

There are also counties where it would totally reasonable to open up and there not, who knows why?

[MU82]

Absolutely!  There are certainly counties where it would be a tough sell to open up in the fall. 

There are also counties where it would totally reasonable to open up and there not, who knows why?

I'm only familiar with what's going on in NC. Here, the the largest school systems, which are all in metro areas that are nowhere near in control of COVID-19, seem to be making the right decision to go virtual, at least for the fall. Other districts are at least choosing a hybrid system, with social distancing and masking, etc. Also seems prudent.

[MU82]

What would folks say to this Charlotte teacher, who works at one of the 5 largest high schools in NC?

“I cannot retire. I cannot resign. I need my job,” said Nhora Gómez-Saxon, a teacher at South Mecklenburg High School. “And right now I am the only one working in my family. I do not have an underlying condition, but I have a mother who finished her cancer treatment just on time to celebrate her 80th birthday.”

So if one demands that in-person school take place in Charlotte, one is demanding that this teacher put her family's health in jeopardy. Just one of many examples of how this is not just a case of "students aren't likely to get it, and if they don't they won't get very sick" issue.

Meanwhile, the most recent survey of NC parents of school-aged children, 44% said it could be 3-12 months until they feel comfortable sending kids to school, day care or camp. Another 16% say it would take them a year, and 3% wouldn’t again feel at ease with the idea, according to findings Chernoff Newman published this month.

About 18% say the idea already makes them comfortable, and that same portion expects to feel that way sometime “over the summer,” according to results from the marketing firm.

FYI, NC school districts have 2 options: virtual-only education or a "hybrid" system of remote and in-person learning. Most of the large districts have chosen virtual-only.

The largest, which includes Charlotte, has chosen in-person reporting for 2 weeks so kids can meet their teachers and classmates, get supplies, do orientation, etc.; followed by virtual learning for the rest of the fall semester. The teacher quoted at the top of this comment works in this district and isn't comfortable reporting to school for those 2 weeks.

[pacearrow02]

What would folks say to this Charlotte teacher, who works at one of the 5 largest high schools in NC?

“I cannot retire. I cannot resign. I need my job,” said Nhora Gómez-Saxon, a teacher at South Mecklenburg High School. “And right now I am the only one working in my family. I do not have an underlying condition, but I have a mother who finished her cancer treatment just on time to celebrate her 80th birthday.”

So if one demands that in-person school take place in Charlotte, one is demanding that this teacher put her family's health in jeopardy. Just one of many examples of how this is not just a case of "students aren't likely to get it, and if they don't they won't get very sick" issue.

Meanwhile, the most recent survey of NC parents of school-aged children, 44% said it could be 3-12 months until they feel comfortable sending kids to school, day care or camp. Another 16% say it would take them a year, and 3% wouldn’t again feel at ease with the idea, according to findings Chernoff Newman published this month.

About 18% say the idea already makes them comfortable, and that same portion expects to feel that way sometime “over the summer,” according to results from the marketing firm.

FYI, NC school districts have 2 options: virtual-only education or a "hybrid" system of remote and in-person learning. Most of the large districts have chosen virtual-only.

The largest, which includes Charlotte, has chosen in-person reporting for 2 weeks so kids can meet their teachers and classmates, get supplies, do orientation, etc.; followed by virtual learning for the rest of the fall semester. The teacher quoted at the top of this comment works in this district and isn't comfortable reporting to school for those 2 weeks.

It’s the right of that school district to look at the Covid situation in there local communities and based off the majority opinion of the parents it seems they are making the right decision. 

If the majority of parents voted to have in person teaching I would then tell that teacher referenced above to not see her Mom without wearing a mask, washing hands, etc.. and limit interactions to outdoors like everyone else is doing with their high risk loved ones.
 

[Hards Alumni]

It’s the right of that school district to look at the Covid situation in there local communities and based off the majority opinion of the parents it seems they are making the right decision. 

If the majority of parents voted to have in person teaching I would then tell that teacher referenced above to not see her Mom without wearing a mask, washing hands, etc.. and limit interactions to outdoors like everyone else is doing with their high risk loved ones.

Why should the parents get to make all the decisions?

[tower912]

Yup.   Majority of parents voting to kill a teacher.   

Harsh, but potentially true. 

[pacearrow02]

Voting to kill a teacher?!?!? 

I don’t think or said parents should have the only voice in the decision.  But their voices shouldn’t be ignored either, right?

[tower912]

PA2, all should be heard.  Tuesday,   I sat through a 90 minute zoom meeting with the administrators, teachers, and many parents from my 8th grade to be's school.      Though it looks like we will be attempting in person classes starting on 8/19, it was far from the consensus choice among the either the teachers or the students.     Most of the parents wanted to start virtual and hopefully be able to go in person by October 1.      Unfortunately, our little school lacks the resources to do both simultaneously.     The teachers were forthright about what they are going to have to be doing.    It isn't pretty.     

And yes, opening too soon will end up killing a teacher.     Just like it is infecting 10's of thousands in all of the states that opened up too soon.   Own it. 

[buckchuckler]

Voting to kill a teacher?!?!? 

This is voting to kill a teacher in the same way that teachers (and others) have been voting to kill grocery store and instacart employees by shopping.  And voting to kill Amazon employees by placing orders.  And voting to kill doctors by having elective procedures, and voting to kill PTs by going to therapy, and voting to kill people from restaurants, door dash and restaurant supply companies by ordering take out (not to mention going out to eat).  And voting to kill daycare employees by sending kids to daycare.  And voting to kill bankers, lawyers, appraisers etc., by refinancing their homes.  And voting to kill car sales people and UAW workers by buying cars.  And voting to kill firefighters by shooting off a bunch of fireworks on the 4th.  And voting to kill factory workers by buying toilet paper, and hand sanitizer, and soap, and masks.  And the same way people are voting to kill athletes by watching the TBT, or MLB, or NBA.

There is no easy answer.  And everything has a heightened level of risk.  People have to evaluate their situation and decide what is best for them.  Millions of people had to make this decision months ago.  Teachers are there now.  They have to make their own decisions.  There is risk on both sides, and that sucks.  That's life. 

This is more convoluted, because there is a remote option, but it doesn't work for everyone, and it isn't even viable for everyone.  And when it works and is viable, it isn't as good.  But I guess I don't understand why teachers going to work is different from anyone else in the country going to work. 

[tower912]

With this virus, every single person who has rushed re-opening has been wrong.   As for comparing teachers to all of those other professions, in most cases the industry opened up with caveats.  Only x amount of people allowed in a building at a time.   Masks to be worn in all public building.   Etc.   Now, a suburban high school is going to have 1500 teenagers in a small space.   A kindergarten teacher is going to have thirty 5 year olds not wearing masks.   The EXACT things we know increase spread.

[Pakuni]

But I guess I don't understand why teachers going to work is different from anyone else in the country going to work.

Not taking sides here, but it's a little more complicated than this.
Teachers want to go back to work, but they want to go back to work in a way that is safe for themselves, their families and their students.
It's not a choice between being in a packed classroom vs sitting at home eating macaroons and watching "The View." It's a choice between in-person learning vs virtual learning. I don't think there's anyone who can honestly tell you that, all things being equal, the latter is preferable. But not all things are equal, as there are legitimate and serious public health issues at play as well. And what it comes down to is whether the benefits of in-person learning during a pandemic outweigh the health risks of in-person learning during a pandemic.

The availability of that virtual option is what makes this materially different than many of the examples you cited, which makes for less-than-adequate comparisons. There is no virtual food. There is no virtual replacement for goods delivered by Amazon. There are no online day care centers or virtual ways to put out a fire or play an NBA game.