COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")

[tower912]

What specifically would I have done?   I look at the politico article that I posted in the masks thread.   The Obama administration left behind a playbook with their lessons learned from H1N1.   I might have taken that, seen how I could improve on it instead of just tossing it in the trash.

I would have put someone competent in charge of the response.    Not Jared.

I would have federalized the supply chains and actually use the powers I claimed to make sure that all of the supplies needed got made.

I would have accepted tests from the WHO.    But only until better ones were made at home.

I would have been playing close attention to what did and didn't work elsewhere and adopted best practices and avoid things that don't work.

I would have used my social media presence to make it patriotic to wear a mask.   To bring the country together and try to get everyone pulling together.

I would have made a federal mandate to wear a mask.

I would have made getting the virus under control my number one priority, as the economy is never going to get going fast again until the.virus is contained.

And yes, I would have listened to science.

[Uncle Rico]

4,163,892 cases of Trump Flu and 145,942 dead Americans from the Trump Flu while Donald J. Trump is President.  The Buck Stops Here 

[TSmith34, Inc.]

North Dakota didn't shut down, didn't require masks, and trusted the people to do the right things..They have had very little issue with covid there. Now sure maybe you can say no one living there plays a part, and that's reasonable. But then why should a national lockdown and mask mandate been implemented for everyone when it simply wasn't much of a problem in some states and still isn't?? Does that seem reasonable to you?? It's not really a one size fits all type of deal.

Yes, IMO it is very reasonable for every state to adhere to the same standards for the very reason I pointed out: the lack of consistent policies in the first place, the "oh, we don't have it so no need for us to comply" is why we are the only western country to still be in the midst of the first wave of this.

It IS a one size fits all deal if we really want to beat this.

EDIT: Here is a very short, two minute video that shows why we need a simultaneous response (one-size fits all), and not a sequential response (states only close after they've already seen a spike). Try not to get your undies in a wad since it is from Rachel Maddow. If you really wanted to get information, you could search out the full interview with the infectious disease expert.
https://www.aol.com/video/partner/the-rachel-maddow-show/518886565/5f191c93c485b34c5e15b7fb/

[shoothoops]

North Dakota didn't shut down, didn't require masks, and trusted the people to do the right things..They have had very little issue with covid there. Now sure maybe you can say no one living there plays a part, and that's reasonable. But then why should a national lockdown and mask mandate been implemented for everyone when it simply wasn't much of a problem in some states and still isn't?? Does that seem reasonable to you?? It's not really a one size fits all type of deal.

North Dakota:

https://bismarcktribune.com/news/local/health/active-coronavirus-cases-surpass-1-000-in-north-dakota/article_2e719a93-ef64-5628-ba83-548970b09085.amp.html?utm_campaign=snd-autopilot&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter_bistrib&__twitter_impression=true

https://www.inforum.com/newsmd/coronavirus/6585265-North-Dakota-sees-record-number-of-new-COVID-19-cases-and-hospitalizations-as-virus-surges-throughout-state

https://news.prairiepublic.org/post/ndus-smart-restart-masking-testing

[tower912]

And I would never, ever, EVER make it about me.   That is not what leaders do during crises.

[MU82]

TRUMP: Look, I take responsibility always for everything because it's ultimately my job, too. I have to get everybody in line.

Pretty sure that's taking responsibility, no??

First, you are assuming he really means it. I'm guessing he didn't, the way he just flipped it out there, but sure he finally said that after having said for months and months and months that he took no responsibility.

Including, on May 13, when he flat-out said: “I don't take responsibility at all."

Your blame-Fauci stuff on masks were just Fox News talking points. For at least 4 months now, just about everybody who knows anything about this coronavirus, including Fauci, has been saying masks work, begging Americans to wear masks. And yet as recently as just a few weeks ago, your emperor was still mocking the very idea of masks. So there's that. If you want to keep falling back on 5-6 months ago, when scientists didn't want to tout masks because masks were in short supply and they were afraid that a run on masks would prevent doctors, nurses and other first-responders from getting them, cool. Hannity would be proud.

I am glad that Trump stopped non-U.S. citizens from traveling in from China. But do know that the ban was not what he has claimed it was, nor was it very effective at doing much to mitigate our problems in the U.S.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/8000-chinese-nationals-came-into-us-after-trump-travel-ban-coronavirus

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/trumps-snowballing-china-travel-claim/

Not downplaying the severity of the virus for months, encouraging the wearing of masks after everybody acknowledged they worked, not encouraging armed protesters to "liberate" states that were nowhere near having met the guidelines that he himself had put out 15 hours earlier, stuff like that ... it would have been a lot more effective than that travel ban.

Fauci messed up plenty early. But he changed his tune, and very forcefully so, when it became obvious to everybody with even half a brain that this wasn't the flu. That was early March. It took too long. He's supposed to be an expert. But thankfully he stopped saying things like the quotes you highlighted.

He is no longer praising the wonderful job your emperor did. I'm guessing that if you asked Fauci in private, any time from mid-April on, he'd say your emperor's constant downplaying of the virus, references to it in racist terms, going against his own guidelines, advocating for the injection of Lysol into human lungs, contradicting epidemiologists, the hydroxy silliness, etc, made things much worse for Americans. But sure, blame Fauci. Rush "It's The Common Cold" Limbaugh would be proud.

What would YOU have done differently, laid out in detail that would have guaranteed a "perfect" response?? What was YOUR detailed, step by step plan to defeat it??

That was not my responsibility. I am not the president of the United States. I did not have scientists at my beck and call. I wasn't getting updates daily. It's a silly way to deflect from the fact that nearly 150K Americans have died on your emperor's watch, hundreds of thousands more will have lifelong medical problems, and millions more are out of jobs.

I think I can say a few things I wouldn't have done, though. I wouldn't have bragged non-stop for 2 months that I had the virus "under control." I wouldn't have threatened to withhold life-saving PPE from governors if they weren't "nice" to me. I wouldn't have issued strong guidelines for reopening states on a Thursday only to tell armed protesters to demand reopenings on Friday. I wouldn't have my surrogates attacking Fauci now. And I wouldn't keep saying that a miracle will make the virus go away.

He isn't perfect. What President has been??

I dunno, guru ... right in your tag line, you say:

We live in a society that rewards mediocrity , I detest mediocrity - David Goggi ... I want this quote to serve as a reminder to the vast majority of scoop posters in regards to the MU BB program.

I have asked you multiple times why you refuse to settle for "mediocrity" from a basketball coach but why you are so willing to accept it (or worse) from the president of the United States. You have never even tried to answer it.

One has presided over 3 NCAA appearances in 4 years but has failed to win any tourney games.

The other has presided over nearly 150K American deaths from COVID-19 in a 4-month span, one of the worst recessions ever, and the most significant racial unrest since the 1960s.

[GooooMarquette]

North Dakota didn't shut down, didn't require masks, and trusted the people to do the right things..They have had very little issue with covid there. Now sure maybe you can say no one living there plays a part, and that's reasonable. But then why should a national lockdown and mask mandate been implemented for everyone when it simply wasn't much of a problem in some states and still isn't?? Does that seem reasonable to you?? It's not really a one size fits all type of deal.

Given its low population density, ND should have one of the lowest rates per hundred thousand people in the country.

It currently sits at 771/100k. That is higher than Ohio, Washington, Colorado, Missouri, Kentucky, Oregon and several other states with higher population densities.

That does not sound like success.

[muguru]

Given its low population density, ND should have one of the lowest rates per hundred thousand people in the country.

It currently sits at 771/100k. That is higher than Ohio, Washington, Colorado, Missouri, Kentucky, Oregon and several other states with higher population densities.

That does not sound like success.

Not to rail on you gooo but this is another perfect example of what I was talking about...people ONLY talk about cases when they want to make a point, and ignore death count/% only when it's convenient will they bring that up. They have had 103 total deaths, again a .01% death rate. That's pretty standard % in most states. That seems successful to me. Wanna know what NO ONE talks about?? The overall recovery %...which sits about 97-98% nationally. I mean you aren't going to get a 100% regardless of pandemic.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Welcome to analysis guru. Cases matter and how many cases you are catching matter.  10 cases per day with a 50% positivity rate is worse than 10 cases per day with a 1% positivity rate.

The only thing that matters is how many hosts with the virus are out there and do you know where it is to try to stamp out.  The rest is the outcome of what you let or not let happen. 

I should say until we find a better treatment of vaccine. 

[GooooMarquette]

Not to rail on you gooo but this is another perfect example of what I was talking about...people ONLY talk about cases when they want to make a point, and ignore death count/% only when it's convenient will they bring that up. They have had 103 total deaths, again a .01% death rate. That's pretty standard % in most states. That seems successful to me. Wanna know what NO ONE talks about?? The overall recovery %...which sits about 97-98% nationally. I mean you aren't going to get a 100% regardless of pandemic.

You touted ND as a success story, I was just showing that ND is not a success. Case rates DO matter, positivity rates DO matter...and in a pandemic where 'recovery' often results in months of continued symptoms and possibly permanent lung damage, 'recovery rates' are cold comfort, at best.

[Pakuni]

You touted ND as a success story, I was just showing that ND is not a success. Case rates DO matter, positivity rates DO matter...and in a pandemic where 'recovery' often results in months of continued symptoms and possibly permanent lung damage, 'recovery rates' are cold comfort, at best.

Yep.
Death is the worst of the bad outcomes of COVID, but not the only bad outcome. There are long-term health consequences. There's the upheaval of being hospitalized for perhaps weeks, away from your family. There economic consequences of being sick and quarantined, both in terms of not being able to work and potentially paying for treatment. There's the fear of spreading it to your loved ones. There are psychological/emotional consequences of dealing with a potentially fatal disease.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

There is the hospital capacity being withheld from other illness or injury.

[MU82]

Yep.
Death is the worst of the bad outcomes of COVID, but not the only bad outcome. There are long-term health consequences. There's the upheaval of being hospitalized for perhaps weeks, away from your family. There economic consequences of being sick and quarantined, both in terms of not being able to work and potentially paying for treatment. There's the fear of spreading it to your loved ones. There are psychological/emotional consequences of dealing with a potentially fatal disease.

This. It is a very under-discussed thing.

My wife has a 40-year-old co-worker who got COVID-19. No pre-existing conditions. Healthy woman. Got COVID-19. Got very sick. Spent time on a ventilator. Spent a couple more weeks in the hospital after the ventilator. Finally went home after 5 weeks in the hospital. She now has scarred lungs and still has little sense of smell. Her life is messed up. But she "survived" and is not part of NC's death rate, thank goodness.

There is the hospital capacity being withheld from other illness or injury.

And this. One of the main points (if not THE main point) to flattening the curve is to make it so hospitals were not overrun with COVID-19 cases. Sadly, in many parts of the country, especially New York early and parts of Texas and Florida lately, there are no ICU beds available, and hospitals look like war zones with patients waiting hours on gurneys.

[pbiflyer]

OMG, the China ban saved hundreds of thousands of lives, if not millions?? Talk about delusional.

From an AP News site:
Trump’s order did not fully “close” the U.S. off to China, as he asserts. It temporarily barred entry by foreign nationals who had traveled in China within the previous 14 days, with exceptions for the immediate family of U.S. citizens and permanent residents. Americans returning from China were allowed back after enhanced screening at select ports of entry and for 14 days afterward. But U.S. scientists say screenings can miss people who don’t yet show symptoms of COVID-19; while symptoms often appear within five or six days of exposure, the incubation period is 14 days.

A recent study from the journal Science found China’s internal crackdown modestly delayed the spread of the virus. It cast doubt that travel restrictions elsewhere will do much compared with other preventive measures, citing in part the likelihood that a large number of people exposed to the virus had already been traveling internationally without being detected.

Most major airlines had already suspended flights to China prior to the announcement on Jan. 31, following the lead of several major international carriers that had stopped due to the coronavirus outbreak. Delta, American and United cited a sharp drop in demand for the flights, and an earlier State Department advisory told Americans not to travel to China because of the outbreak.

https://apnews.com/0dc271ad7f7917374a5a0cfb49273783

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

I can report that I know someone that was in China after the outbreak was known.  They were contacted 13 days after landing.  Asking them to quarantine for the full 14 days.  So late but we tried.

Since our worst outbreaks are east coast/Europe mutation...we missed the second chance to contain this...late

I’m not knocking the effort as much as saying it isn’t something to brag about...it failed

[Galway Eagle]

Why is Guru so fixated solely on death count being low? It's been proven that a massive percentage of people get this and end up with strokes in there 30s, lasting lung damage, and more.

[Hards Alumni]

Why is Guru so fixated solely on death count being low? It's been proven that a massive percentage of people get this and end up with strokes in there 30s, lasting lung damage, and more.

Because he is a layman who has a high level of cognitive dissonance as well as confirmation bias.

[pbiflyer]

Why is Guru so fixated solely on death count being low? It's been proven that a massive percentage of people get this and end up with strokes in there 30s, lasting lung damage, and more.

And we have no idea what long term damage will be. Can you imagine a shingles like impact decades from now?

[muguru]

Why is Guru so fixated solely on death count being low? It's been proven that a massive percentage of people get this and end up with strokes in there 30s, lasting lung damage, and more.

So you don't care if people die?? Has this been proven?? I have heard it talked about, but I have never seen any scientific facts/data that support it. Is it out there?? It's a serious question, because I honestly have never seen one piece of data that shows that. You'd think with everything going on with covid, someone would have shown those #'s many times.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

So you don't care if people die?? Has this been proven?? I have heard it talked about, but I have never seen any scientific facts/data that support it. Is it out there?? It's a serious question, because I honestly have never seen one piece of data that shows that. You'd think with everything going on with covid, someone would have shown those #'s many times.

Still waiting for you to answer:

"So the question now is, guru, since you now know The Blaze lied to you by taking a quote out of context, does it change your mind? Because earlier you were complaining about people not accepting facts that didn't match what they wanted to believe..."

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

So you don't care if people die?? Has this been proven?? I have heard it talked about, but I have never seen any scientific facts/data that support it. Is it out there?? It's a serious question, because I honestly have never seen one piece of data that shows that. You'd think with everything going on with covid, someone would have shown those #'s many times.

There is a lot in there but yes there are facts that show people die from Covid. 

[rocky_warrior]

Wow, this has been totally fun catching guru up on the past 5 months of this thread, to have him ignore everything and go back to "in February Fauci said" and "CHINA BAN!". 

Guru, you YELL AT OTHERS for not being able to pay attention to or learn from new facts, but you're doing the exact same thing when you get respectful answers.  In fact, many of your questions have been answered, but then you just lob another totally meaningless talking point/question out to argue that instead of ingesting the new information.  I might suggest this particular Covid-19 forum is just not for you.  If you choose to stay, "hang up and listen" for a while - you might just learn something.

[GooooMarquette]

So you don't care if people die?? Has this been proven?? I have heard it talked about, but I have never seen any scientific facts/data that support it. Is it out there?? It's a serious question, because I honestly have never seen one piece of data that shows that. You'd think with everything going on with covid, someone would have shown those #'s many times.

Yes. Scientists at Scripps Research Institute have shown that, even among asymptomatic patients, 54 to 76% had significant subclinical lung damage, as shown on CT scans.

https://www.kpbs.org/news/2020/jun/14/scripps-asymptomatic-coronavirus-patients-organ/

That's asymptomatic patients - people with the lowest viral loads and mildest disease. People who experienced symptoms likely have even more damage. And before you get excited about it being "subclinical," that just means young people get a loss of lung capacity that they don't notice when they're still young and healthy. But if they try to go for a run or bike ride, they may notice. And as they age and their pulmonary reserve wanes, this loss could be significant.

It's obviously years too early to know how severe this will be down the road, but it's silly to ignore it as 'just a theory'.

[injuryBug]

Yep.
Death is the worst of the bad outcomes of COVID, but not the only bad outcome. There are long-term health consequences. There's the upheaval of being hospitalized for perhaps weeks, away from your family. There economic consequences of being sick and quarantined, both in terms of not being able to work and potentially paying for treatment. There's the fear of spreading it to your loved ones. There are psychological/emotional consequences of dealing with a potentially fatal disease.

How do we really know the long term health effects of covid?  It has been around what 7 months?
Mono will take a strong HS/college athlete and put them out for months before they start to feel better.  Pneumonia will do the same and have lasting effects on your lungs.
I take precautions to not get sick with anything.  Saying covid has lasting effects just increases the fear and makes a bad situation worse.  Take precautions but no need to increase fear

[GooooMarquette]

How do we really know the long term health effects of covid?  It has been around what 7 months?
Mono will take a strong HS/college athlete and put them out for months before they start to feel better.  Pneumonia will do the same and have lasting effects on your lungs.
I take precautions to not get sick with anything.  Saying covid has lasting effects just increases the fear and makes a bad situation worse.  Take precautions but no need to increase fear

See the post just above yours - CT documented evidence of lung scarring even in asymptomatic patients. We don't know how bad it will be long term, but we know many people have lung scarring, which is well known to diminish breathing capacity.