Is College Football Going To Get Banned?

[Tugg Speedman]

The point of this thread was the Junior Seau suicide was going to mark a peak in football's popularity.

Consider what happened today in Kansas City

Jovan Belcher kills girlfriend, himself

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8697360/kansas-city-chiefs-jovan-belcher-kills-girlfriend-commits-suicide-police-say

Kansas City Chiefs linebacker Jovan Belcher fatally shot his girlfriend on Saturday, then drove to Arrowhead Stadium and committed suicide in front of his coach and general manager.

Authorities did not release a possible motive for the murder-suicide, though police said that Belcher and his girlfriend, 22-year-old Kasandra M. Perkins, had been arguing recently. The two of them have an infant child.

Belcher thanked general manager Scott Pioli and coach Romeo Crennel before shooting himself in the parking lot of the team's practice facility, police spokesman Darin Snapp said. Police had locked it down by midmorning and reporters were confined to the street just outside the gates.

The Chiefs said they will play the Carolina Panthers on Sunday at Arrowhead Stadium as scheduled after discussing it with the league, Crennel and the club's captains. A spokesman for Kansas City told The Associated Press that Crennel plans to coach the team.

The Panthers had been advised by the league earlier Saturday morning to travel to Kansas City as planned.

Belcher was a 25-year-old native of West Babylon, N.Y., on Long Island, who played college ball at Maine. He signed with the Chiefs an undrafted free agent, made the team and stayed with it for four years, moving into the starting lineup. He'd played in all 11 games this season.

"The entire Chiefs family is deeply saddened by today's events, and our collective hearts are heavy with sympathy, thoughts and prayers for the families and friends affected by this unthinkable tragedy," Chiefs chairman Clark Hunt said in a statement.

"We sincerely appreciate the expressions of sympathy and support we have received from so many in the Kansas City and NFL communities, and ask for continued prayers for the loved ones of those impacted," Hunt said. "We will continue to fully cooperate with the authorities and work to ensure that the appropriate counseling resources are available to all members of the organization."

Authorities reported receiving a call Saturday morning from a woman who said her daughter had been shot multiple times at a residence about five miles away from the Arrowhead complex. The call actually came from Belcher's mother, who referred to the victim as her daughter, leading to some initial confusion, police said.

Police then received a phone call from the Chiefs' training facility.

"The description matched the suspect description from that other address. We kind of knew what we were dealing with," Snapp said. The player was "holding a gun to his head" as he stood in front of the front doors of the practice facility.

"And there were Pioli and Crennel and another coach or employee was standing outside and appeared to be talking to him. It appeared they were talking to the suspect," Snapp said. "The suspect began to walk in the opposite direction of the coaches and the officers and that's when they heard the gunshot. It appears he took his own life."

The coaches told police they never felt in any danger, Snapp said.

Linebackers coach Gary Gibbs was also outside when the shooting occurred, a team official told ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter.

"They said the player was actually thanking them for everything they'd done for him," Snapp said. "They were just talking to him and he was thanking them and everything. That's when he walked away and shot himself."

Snapp said Belcher's mother told police the couple had recently been arguing.

"Our thoughts and prayers are with the Chiefs and the families and friends of those who lost their lives in this terrible tragedy," the NFL said in a news release. "We have connected the Chiefs with our national team of professional counselors to support both the team and the families of those affected. We will continue to provide assistance in any way that we can."

Joe Linta, Belcher's agent who also represents Crennel, said when he first heard the news, he thought it was a prank.

"He was the last person in the world you would expect," Linta said. "Completely out of character for the guy I know. I didn't have a lot of individual contact with him but this is so out of character for him. Completely out of character. He was charitable, polite, articulate -- and something went crazy wrong."

Linta said he hasn't been in touch with Crennel since the incident.

"No I haven't had a chance to speak to him," Linta said. "I left a message saying I'm here for you. It's one of those things where a lot have called, you're in my prayers, but I'm just a piano player. There are a lot of people drastically impacted. It's unbelievable to me."

 Belcher is the latest among several players and NFL retirees to die from self-inflicted gunshot wounds in the past couple of years. The death of the beloved star Junior Seau, who shot himself in the chest in at his California home in May, sent shockwaves around the league.

Kansas City mayor Sly James said he spoke to Pioli after the incident, and while he refused to discuss the GM's emotional state, the mayor said Pioli was "extremely concerned that fans of this team are not disappointed and not left in the cold."

"I think they think there's an obligation to the people of this city, the fans of the team and the fans of the other team to play the game," James said.

The Chiefs, expected to contend for the AFC West title, are 1-10 and mired in an eight-game losing streak.

"The Oakland Raiders are empathizing with the Chiefs organization," the Chiefs' AFC West rivals said in a statement. "Our hearts are wounded by such an unimaginable tragedy in our NFL family."

Belcher, had started 44-of-59 games in his four seasons for the Chiefs, recording a career-high 61 tackles in 2011.

Raibonne Charles, a former Maine defensive lineman and teammate, said Belcher played the game with passion and was "a passionate person in life."

Charles said he hadn't talked to Belcher much since he made it to the NFL, but that everyone is obviously shocked.

"To be honest with you, I kind of just crumbled inside when I first heard the news," Charles said.

Maine coach Jack Cosgrove said Jovan was a "tremendous student-athlete."

"His move to the NFL was in keeping with his dreams," Cosgrove said in a statement. "This is an indescribably horrible tragedy. At this difficult time, our thoughts and prayers are with Jovan, Kasandra and their families."

Charles described Belcher as an undersized linebacker whose 40-yard dash time wasn't exceptional. But he was an inspiration for a lot of guys at the school because he made it to the NFL despite his shortcomings, Charles said.

"The state of Maine tends to take a lot of pride in guys who may not necessarily be from the state but play for the University of Maine and make the NFL," Charles said. "I was often asked about him. 'Did you get to play with that guy Jovan?' This is definitely going to be devastating to the whole state."

[GGGG]

The only thing this incident seems to have in common with Seau's is that it was self-inflicted.  Not sure how either incident is going to put a dent in the popularity of football.

[GGGG]

Let me add that as I am typing this, I am watching the SEC Championship Game where the cheapest tickets went for about $300 on Stubhub, and will undoubtedly draw huge ratings.

[Tugg Speedman]

So a player kills his girlfriend, drives to the Arrowhead stadium and blows his brains out in front of his GM (Scott Pioloi)  and Coach (Romeo Crannell).  He leaves behind an infant child.

And what is the NFL's response?  Basically to tell the team to get a broom and shovel and clean up the mess as they have a game to play tomorrow.

I'm a huge fan of the NFL.  But Duerson, Seau, Lyle Alzado and now this are going to kill the popularity of football.  These incidents are not going away, they are getting worse.  Next high school kids are going to think twice about playing (Kurt Warner does not want his kids playing) just like they recondiered boxing as a sport 50 to 70 years ago.  Then 20 years from now, the NFL will be as popular as MLB.

And college will be choking on all these conference realignments.

[GGGG]

The Chiefs players supposedly wanted to play...not that it should make a difference because I actually agree that they shouldn't.

But regardless, Duerson, et al are not going to kill the popularity of college football.  I am not watching this game wondering who is going to put a bullet in their head 30 years from now.  Now, might it decline in popularity?  Sure.  But I think people who are predicting an enormous decline in football's popularity have no idea how deeply ingrained it is within our society. 

And I have no idea how you think college will be "choking" on conference reallignments.  To me that sounds more like bitterness about MU's place in the world more than anything.

[Knight Commission]

Its the lawsuits that will hurt football, not the off the field incidents.

Chris Henry's "suicide" was pretty bad as was Rae Carruth's murder but we have almost forgot about those.

[GGGG]

IMO, if lawsuits significantly hurt football, you will see Congress step in to limit damages...exempt colleges and universities, etc. 

[Bocephys]

Its the lawsuits that will hurt football, not the off the field incidents.

Chris Henry's "suicide" was pretty bad as was Rae Carruth's murder but we have almost forgot about those.

Chris Henry was hanging on the hood of his girlfriend's car and fell off as she sped away. Not sure how that can be classified as a suicide, even with quotes.

[forgetful]

I can see lawsuits occurring, starting at the high school level.

High Schools condone and encourage a violent dangerous sport through events like Homecoming that they amplify to the point of being almost the most important aspect of a students High School life.

Students injured or affected by this climate have as legitimate of a claim against school districts as a smoker against the tobacco industry (advertising to kids).

It just takes one successful lawyer to start a trend.

[Knight Commission]

Chris Henry was hanging on the hood of his girlfriend's car and fell off as she sped away. Not sure how that can be classified as a suicide, even with quotes.

Witness accounts stated that he was threatening her that he would jump off the car and kill himself....and that's what he did.

[Tugg Speedman]

.  But I think people who are predicting an enormous decline in football's popularity have no idea how deeply ingrained it is within our society

Boxing was as ingrained before the 1950s.

When the public start viewing the sport as watching the athletes ruining their lives rather than playing a game, the public gets turned off and its popularity suffers.

This happened with boxing and it has not recovered.  Auto racing had this problem but safety enchancements allowed it to rebound.

[GGGG]

Boxing was as ingrained before the 1950s.

When the public start viewing the sport as watching the athletes ruining their lives rather than playing a game, the public gets turned off and its popularity suffers.

This happened with boxing and it has not recovered.  Auto racing had this problem but safety enchancements allowed it to rebound.

No.  Boxing lost popularity when it became poorly managed and they moved the matches to pay per view...short term profit versus long term health.  It many ways it was more blood-thirsty as it was growing in popularity.

And football is much more ingrained than boxing every was.

[mu03eng]

No.  Boxing lost popularity when it became poorly managed and they moved the matches to pay per view...short term profit versus long term health.  It many ways it was more blood-thirsty as it was growing in popularity.

And football is much more ingrained than boxing every was.

See MMA.  I agree at a conceptual level that football could be harmed by all this but the boxing analogy is silly.  The violence didn't help, but MMA is far more violent and seems to be more popular now than boxing.  Also boxing failed because of title confusion and proliferation more than anything else.

[Tugg Speedman]

See MMA.  I agree at a conceptual level that football could be harmed by all this but the boxing analogy is silly.  The violence didn't help, but MMA is far more violent and seems to be more popular now than boxing.  Also boxing failed because of title confusion and proliferation more than anything else.

We like violence ... what we don't like is watching people die and get injured for life.

MMA will never move beyond its current appeal unless people believe they are not watching perement injury of an athlete.

MMA has not reached the level of Pro Wrestling.  The public,rightly or wrongly, thought pro Wrestling was fke so it did not beleive they were getting seriously injured.  That preception is now changed and the sport is suffering.

Regarding boxing, it not just PPV, the sport is in decline worldwide for the same reason ... no one wants to watch someone die, except the sickos.

[nyg]

Belcher committed a murder/suicide based upon a domestic violence incident.  The reasoning being an argument with his girlfriend over something that will soon be brought to life.  The argument and subsequent shooting was witnessed by the mother, who was on the scene when the incident occurred.  This happens everyday in this country and to be honest, I can't believe the victim's mother is still alive.  In the majority of these domestic violent cases, the rage takes over and more than one family victim at the scene is gone.

This had nothing to do with any football brain injury suffered by a 25 year old athlete, but others may perceive it to be.  Will not effect anything with people watching the NFL.  

[Tugg Speedman]

Belcher committed a murder/suicide based upon a domestic violence incident.  The reasoning being an argument with his girlfriend over something that will soon be brought to life.  The argument and subsequent shooting was witnessed by the mother, who was on the scene when the incident occurred.  This happens everyday in this country and to be honest, I can't believe the victim's mother is still alive.  In the majority of these domestic violent cases, the rage takes over and more than one family victim at the scene is gone.

This had nothing to do with any football brain injury suffered by a 25 year old athlete, but others may perceive it to be.  Will not effect anything with people watching the NFL.  

Sorry, people do kill their partner and then drive to work and blow their brains out in front of their boss at the office everyday.

It is not going to affect football in the near-term but it will over the long-term.  Why do you thin the NFL invented USA Football and run the Tom Brady commercial a million times that they are spending millions of safety?

I'm saying the the peak in football popularity is right now and its will start on a slow side.  20 years from today it will be as popular as MLB is now.   But, it will remain very popular in the South, like NASCAR.  So, if you think NASCAR is a regional sport, show will Football in 2030.

That means college football will earn slight more than basketball, not many times more than basketball.

[GGGG]

You are acting as if football players acting violently is a new thing.  It isn't.  Mike Webster and Rae Carruth are just footnotes to history.  Junior Seau and Jovan Belcher will meet the same fate by the time the NFL playoffs kickoff.  Now, football may decline simply because it is so sky high now, but this kind of stuff wont be the reason.

[nyg]

Actually, people do murder their partner everyday and then do themselves.  They also kill their children and then do themselves.  Only issue here is that it received national media attention due to his status as a professional football player.

I agree with your long term assessment over the potential for decrease in football being popular, because over time more and more parents will allow not their children to play.  The brain injury research is only in the  early stages and the results will probably not be in favor of football.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

So a player kills his girlfriend, drives to the Arrowhead stadium and blows his brains out in front of his GM (Scott Pioloi)  and Coach (Romeo Crannell).  He leaves behind an infant child.

And what is the NFL's response?  Basically to tell the team to get a broom and shovel and clean up the mess as they have a game to play tomorrow.

I'm a huge fan of the NFL.  But Duerson, Seau, Lyle Alzado and now this are going to kill the popularity of football.  These incidents are not going away, they are getting worse.  Next high school kids are going to think twice about playing (Kurt Warner does not want his kids playing) just like they recondiered boxing as a sport 50 to 70 years ago.  Then 20 years from now, the NFL will be as popular as MLB.

And college will be choking on all these conference realignments.

Alzado started roids back in the early 70s at Yankton college (now a minimum security prision for the state of south dakota). His roof use continued for 10-15 years. I have a personalized signed alzado picture on my wall, but Big Lyle was completely different than the concussion related deaths of DD, seau, etc.

[Benny B]

Let me add that as I am typing this, I am watching the SEC Championship Game where the cheapest tickets went for about $300 on Stubhub, and will undoubtedly draw huge ratings.

Good moonshine sells for $300 a gallon. Don't ever underestimate the buying power of even the most toothless of rednecks in the south.

[TJ]

There is no need to promote a law that has been on the books for years.

I don't get it.  Women shouldn't have as many sports options as men?

Sorry to come late to the party and answer an off-topic question, but I think there should be a football exemption in the Title IX law.  There simply isn't an equivalent sport that uses 55 scholarships for women.  So what ends up happening is men get less options.  So there's a softball team and a women's volleyball team and a women's gymnastics team and a women's bowling team, etc. to make up the difference.  Wouldn't men like to complete in these sports too?  It doesn't have to be an exemption, but let football scholarships be accounted for at 3 for 1 or 2 for 1 or something like that.  I certainly don't want to create an environment where it's okay to neglect women's sports, but I think there has to be a way to keep Title IX protections in place without essentially discarding non-revenue men's sports.

[MU82]

This talk is hardly new.

In the early part of last century, a big move was made to abolish college football. In one editorial, the New York Times spoke of two "curable evils": football and lynchings.

A group of influential people that included President Teddy Roosevelt convinced the sport's higher-ups to make the game less violent. The rulebook was rewritten, and football was saved.

[Tugg Speedman]

These are the issues football has ...


http://www.forbes.com/sites/monteburke/2012/10/09/why-is-football-so-popular/

But the bottom line is that football, at all levels, has never been more popular.

Which is a curious thing, because the game itself is under siege, primarily because of concerns about what playing it is doing to the brains of its players. Maybe the impact of concussion-related lawsuits and the reports of former players shooting themselves in the heart in order to preserve their brains for future study will be felt someday soon. I’ve argued in the past that mothers may, in the end, determine the fate of football. But they haven’t yet. The game just continues to grow in popularity.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/monteburke/2012/05/03/could-the-10-billion-nfl-lose-its-fans/

But even if he [Seau] had nothing wrong with his brain, the damage, to a certain degree, has been done. The public perception—the first thought that went through the minds of most sports fans—was that there had to be a connection. Most football fans of this generation didn’t really know Duerson. But we know Seau. We grew up watching him. He was a good and popular player. His death hits harder than Duerson’s.

And that feeling that we all share goes deep. Even if it turns out that Seau had a perfectly-functioning brain, we know, deep down, that sometime in the future, there will be others. Duerson, Mike Webster, Andre Waters and Terry Long, among others, all died young and were all found to have chronic traumatic encephalopathy, also known—colloquially and quite hauntingly—as gridiron dementia.

Seau’s death was heartbreaking, for two main reasons: first, any suicide is an act of such unfathomable pain, pain that is immediately transferred to those—like Seau’s mother and three children—who are left behind. But it’s also heartbreaking for a more selfish reason to football fans, like me, who are forced to face up to some hard truths.

We now are fully aware of the toll that the game takes on its players. According to the website, nflconcussionlitigation.com, “as of October 2, 2012, there are 3,690 named player-plaintiffs in the 159 complaints [and]…more than 5,200 plaintiffs total” involved in concussion-related lawsuits against the NFL.

http://nflconcussionlitigation.com/?page_id=274

[LloydMooresLegs]

Referring back to the question asked in the subject line of the OP.

No.  Never.  Not ever.

[GGGG]

Right Another....those are the issues football has.  The real question is that are these issues serious enough to kill the game.  And I think the obvious answer is "not anytime soon."