MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: wadesworld on November 24, 2015, 07:34:42 PM
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If they're going to call games like this they need to go to 6 personal fouls for disqualification. Every team runs into foul trouble every game. Definitely takes away from the game. Makes having depth that much more important.
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I disagree, every season starts like this as teams and refs adjust to new rules. Have to think it will balance out in the next 6 weeks or so.
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This game sucks. Just stop changing the rules emphasis every year.
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This game sucks. Just stop changing the rules emphasis every year.
It's brutal. Both ways. I can't stand games where there's a whistle every time down the court. And there's a whistle damn near every time down the court.
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This makes sense to me only because there are less (scholly) players on a college roster than the pros, and a shorter shot clock will result in more possessions and more fouls.
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51 fouls. Woof.
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It's not fun to watch.
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Ypu guys are like the girl who goes on Jerry Springer to find out her boyfriend is cheating on her only to go after the other girl. Dumbass, your BOYFRIEND is the one cheating on you, not the other girl. Go after him.
Don't like the fouls? The blame is on the players, not the refs.
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Ypu guys are like the girl who goes on Jerry Springer to find out her boyfriend is cheating on her only to go after the other girl. Dumbass, your BOYFRIEND is the one cheating on you, not the other girl. Go after him.
Don't like the fouls? The blame is on the players, not the refs.
I agree! If it's a foul by the rules, it's has to be called. It was even both ways.
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I agree! If it's a foul by the rules, it's has to be called. It was even both ways.
I can live with a lot of bad officiating if it's consistently and fairly bad.
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The players need to adjust. Five fouls is plenty.
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The players need to adjust. Five fouls is plenty.
Not when you move your feet and stay in great defending position but get called for a foul because the offensive player initiates contact.
Having every starter on both teams with 2 fouls in the first half is not good for the game, unless they go to 6 personal fouls, in which case it doesn't matter as much.
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I agree! If it's a foul by the rules, it's has to be called. It was even both ways.
Yes, the players need to adjust to the rules and the calling....no argument there. But the quality of officiating was not consistent at all. Very questionable calls all night (unfortunately the most obvious/telecasted ones went our way).
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Not when you move your feet and stay in great defending position but get called for a foul because the offensive player initiates contact.
Having every starter on both teams with 2 fouls in the first half is not good for the game, unless they go to 6 personal fouls, in which case it doesn't matter as much.
Nailed it again Wades.
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Those refs sucked, this game was in no way representative of what can be expected with the new rules.
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I didn't think any of the fouls called against ASU's big guy were fouls. He fouled out in 7 minutes. If you don't want to blame the officials, then we should blame whoever came up with all of these ticky tacky rules. It's no wonder why no one watches these regular season free throw contests.
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The new enforcements were known before the season. They were emphasized in all the preseason scrimmages and exhibitions. Now everyone's acting like it's a surprise. If the players don't want to be called, don't get as physical.
Everyone knows the deal. I can't imagine the coaches didn't emphasize the importance of this. This isn't on the refs, it's on the players. The NCAA is trying to increase scoring and this is part of it. Shorter shot clock, reducing physical defending, this is all exactly what they said was coming.
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Not when you move your feet and stay in great defending position but get called for a foul because the offensive player initiates contact.
Having every starter on both teams with 2 fouls in the first half is not good for the game, unless they go to 6 personal fouls, in which case it doesn't matter as much.
Correct - but tonight's fouls occurred because the players haven't adjusted yet. Which is why I said..."the players need to adjust."
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Correct - but tonight's fouls occurred because the players haven't adjusted yet. Which is why I said..."the players need to adjust."
They do need to adjust but I also think there are a few calls where defenders get punished for staying in front of/in good defensive position on the ball handler. There was one on I believe JJJ in particular in the middle of the second half that I thought JJJ did a great job of staying with the ball handler and the ball handler put his shoulder right into JJJ's chest and he got whistled for a foul. Same with Hank's drive in the 2nd half that should've been a charge. Duane's block call was correct, the defender was clearly still sliding sideways and underneath him. There was also one on Luke either late first half or early 2nd half where the ball handler just ran straight into a straight up and down, planted Luke and got the call. It's brutal. It's one thing to lock down on defenders "riding" a ball handler. It's another to punish good defense.
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It's brutal. Both ways. I can't stand games where there's a whistle every time down the court. And there's a whistle damn near every time down the court.
I did something tonite that I didn't think I would do. I didn't do it in the Iowa game, but tonite I turned off the game. I couldn't take it anymore. I would never waste my time watching guys practice free throws, but that's all this game was.
The officials do not know what to do. They just know they have to keep on blowing the whistle. And that is not what I am going to watch.
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They need to call more fouls. They should ding the offensive players that are pushing off. It makes no sense that a defensive player cannot put his hands on an offensive player, but the offensive player can push the defender away.
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They do need to adjust but I also think there are a few calls where defenders get punished for staying in front of/in good defensive position on the ball handler. There was one on I believe JJJ in particular in the middle of the second half that I thought JJJ did a great job of staying with the ball handler and the ball handler put his shoulder right into JJJ's chest and he got whistled for a foul. Same with Hank's drive in the 2nd half that should've been a charge. Duane's block call was correct, the defender was clearly still sliding sideways and underneath him. There was also one on Luke either late first half or early 2nd half where the ball handler just ran straight into a straight up and down, planted Luke and got the call. It's brutal. It's one thing to lock down on defenders "riding" a ball handler. It's another to punish good defense.
The mistaken calls show that the refs need to adjust too. Giving a 6th foul would prevent the goal - less physical play - from ever materializing. Patience.
We just won two games we weren't expected to win. Enjoy your evening.
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They need to call more fouls. They should ding the offensive players that are pushing off. It makes no sense that a defensive player cannot put his hands on an offensive player, but the offensive player can push the defender away.
Are you nuts? A foul every 50 seconds and you want more? They are destroying the game.
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Are you nuts? A foul every 50 seconds and you want more? They are destroying the game.
When fouls are called at this rate it ruins all flow. I'm glad they won, but find college basketball harder to watch every year.
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The new enforcements were known before the season. They were emphasized in all the preseason scrimmages and exhibitions. Now everyone's acting like it's a surprise. If the players don't want to be called, don't get as physical.
Everyone knows the deal. I can't imagine the coaches didn't emphasize the importance of this. This isn't on the refs, it's on the players. The NCAA is trying to increase scoring and this is part of it. Shorter shot clock, reducing physical defending, this is all exactly what they said was coming.
Then we should stop complaining about the lack of defense and the lack of ability to keep anyone out of the paint. You can't defend with the new rules. Any contact, even if it's 100% initiated by a ball handler, is whistled. Can't play defense.
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Then we should stop complaining about the lack of defense and the lack of ability to keep anyone out of the paint. You can't defend with the new rules. Any contact, even if it's 100% initiated by a ball handler, is whistled. Can't play defense.
You can defend with the new rules... just don't put your hands on the other guy. It's basketball, not a sixth grade dance.
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They are calling the game the way it use to be played. This physical, lots of contact started with Bobby Knight back in the early 70s.
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They are calling the game the way it use to be played. This physical, lots of contact started with Bobby Knight back in the early 70s.
Yup, and in the long run it will be good for the game. The fouls will lessen over time as the players get used to the new rules. With the shorter shot clock you need to cut down on the physicality allowed on defense. Last night was painful to watch, though. I thought we really got the benefit of the whistle. They could let some of the incidental stuff going after rebounds go.
Anyway, I think these rules will lead to opening up offense and to more 78-75 games and less 51 -48 games and I'm all for that.
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They are calling the game the way it use to be played. This physical, lots of contact started with Bobby Knight back in the early 70s.
Yup, and in the long run it will be good for the game. The fouls will lessen over time as the players get used to the new rules.
Well first I struggle with the idea that going back to how basketball was played 40 years ago is preferable much less doable. Basketball is more physical at every level. High school, college and pros. During that timeframe, both college and pro basketball in particular have become very popular.
What ails college basketball isn't excessive physicality. What ails college basketball is that the NBA saps up a ton of the scoring talent. Look at Henry for instance. He is very good, but struggling a bit with the offensive side of the game. Back in the day you would get four years out of him and by the time he was a senior he'd be a 20/10 guy. MU will likely lose him after one or two years though only to be replaced with another guy who struggles offensively.
But what annoys me is that the NCAA comes up with these "directives" or "points of emphasis" every few years that hampers the game in the meantime. If I were a random college basketball fan, I would have turned that game off last night in about five minutes. How does that help the game?
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5 fouls is plenty.
What the NCAA needs to do is nothing... Meaning, stop changing rules or points of emphasis every year.
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5 fouls is plenty.
What the NCAA needs to do is nothing... Meaning, stop changing rules or points of emphasis every year.
I agree. The rule changes are stupid. But if they are going to make these the new rules, then also adapt to the fact that more fouls will be called and give players a chance to actually stay on the court for a majority of the game. Seeing which team can weather foul trouble is not fun for either team.
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I can live with a lot of bad officiating if it's consistently and fairly bad.
In this game it was consistently bad. Can't go so far as to say it was fair.
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I know Im in the minority. But to me, this had to be done. As it was before, you never knew wheat you were going to get. A ref that allows bumping hand checking etc, or one that calls it. Different styles of teams could benefit from the refs "interpretation" of the rules. The game evolved(poorly IMO) over the years. To the point where getting position wasnt that important any longer. Could you shove your guy off the block far enough? Can you hand check and bump him off his drive? Ugly IMO and it was too inconsistent. Plain and simple players need to adjust.
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Are you nuts? A foul every 50 seconds and you want more? They are destroying the game.
Calling offensive fouls on push offs probably would not result in more fouls called. I seen several defenders called for fouls after the offensive player has repeatedly pushed them away. It just changes who the foul is called on.
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I have felt for a long time that they should go to four fouls and change offensive fouls to turnovers and not fouls. In that situation Fischer would not of fouled out last night. He had two offensive fouls and three defensive fouls.
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I agree. The rule changes are stupid. But if they are going to make these the new rules, then also adapt to the fact that more fouls will be called and give players a chance to actually stay on the court for a majority of the game. Seeing which team can weather foul trouble is not fun for either team.
BTW - The rules haven't changed. They are simply being enforced.
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I have felt for a long time that they should go to four fouls and change offensive fouls to turnovers and not fouls. In that situation Fischer would not of fouled out last night. He had two offensive fouls and three defensive fouls.
I think I could get behind that, especially if it deters people from flopping.
However, I think you would see less defensive emphasis on taking a charge.
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6 fouls in a 40 minute game. No thanks.
Players, coaches, refs have to adjust. This is the beginning of a new season, with new rules, new emphasis and directives. It will sort itself out just fine.
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Per, KPom, MU is #17 in the nation at NOT fouling, as measured by free throw rate (24.1% vs. national average of 38.8%). On the offensive end, MU is getting more calls than average (45.7%). Of course, MU is turning it over at one of the highest rates #295 at 21.6% with the frosh at point, with a lot of offensive fouls across the line-up.
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I think I could get behind that, especially if it deters people from flopping.
However, I think you would see less defensive emphasis on taking a charge.
That could be a good thing, though as charging/blocking fouls are the hardest to make.
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I think I could get behind that, especially if it deters people from flopping.
However, I think you would see less defensive emphasis on taking a charge.
I would worry about an uptick in injuries if a charge is not as punitive as it is now. It would result in much more aggressive play. Maybe make a distinction between a charge and all other offensive fouls, and still make charges a foul?