"Time is up. Time is up"

[ChicosBailBonds]

http://www.foxsportswisconsin.com/12/18/10/Buzz-searching-for-ways-to-inspire-incon/landing.html?blockID=376008&feedID=5059

[MarquetteDano]

"Time is Up" is right.  I think Vandy is a must win next week.  Yeah, yeah we could go 12-6/13-5 in the Big East and still get in.  But I don't think we are going 12-6 or better.  If we lose to Vandy, I am not sure 11-7 in the Big East without a good showing in the BET gets us in.  Vandy will give us that critical OOC game that the committee loves.  Plus, it would be on the road.

Time is Up... need to win at Vandy.

[2TimeWarrior]

I'm not one to question a coach's motives often, but as a fan watching the game it seems much of the inconsistency stems from the fact that we don't have a true core or players but rather a spattering of players who are never playing with the same guys.  I never feel like I can get my mind organized in the game since the same guys are never on the floor (maybe this is supposed to work the same way with the other team?)  I understand that guys need to be subbed, but it seems like nobody knows their role on this team yet.  At some point I would expect Buzz to assign those roles and let guys settle in.  Maybe that's where some consistency will show up?

[M@RQUETTEW@RRIORS]

I dont get the need for the amount of substitions of the team is not gonna play a more up-tempo/helter skelter style.  IE press and run more.  If not, Im not sure what all the subbing gets you.

[NersEllenson]

"Time is Up" is right.  I think Vandy is a must win next week.  Yeah, yeah we could go 12-6/13-5 in the Big East and still get in.  But I don't think we are going 12-6 or better.  If we lose to Vandy, I am not sure 11-7 in the Big East without a good showing in the BET gets us in.  Vandy will give us that critical OOC game that the committee loves.  Plus, it would be on the road.

Time is Up... need to win at Vandy.

Regardless of win or lose against Vandy - I can't see any possible way a team that goes 11-7 in the Big East won't get in..maybe even 10-8 and even losing in the first round of the tournament probably gets you in.  To finish with 10 wins..a team is going to have to beat at least 1 or 2 Top 10 teams at present.  MU has no "bad" losses per se..very close margins of defeat against Duke, UW, Gonazaga (who are starting to look more respectable with Washington State proving to be legit.)

[esotericmindguy]

"Time is Up" is right.  I think Vandy is a must win next week.  Yeah, yeah we could go 12-6/13-5 in the Big East and still get in.  But I don't think we are going 12-6 or better.  If we lose to Vandy, I am not sure 11-7 in the Big East without a good showing in the BET gets us in.  Vandy will give us that critical OOC game that the committee loves.  Plus, it would be on the road.

Time is Up... need to win at Vandy.

Seriously dano? Only one or two teams in the history of the new big east missed the tourney with an above .500 record in the beast. Now you're saying 11-7 wont cut it? 11 teams are in the top 50 rpi! Just settle down, 10-8 will likely get you in.....it's the #1 ranked conference. Also, 15 of their final 19 are against top 50 teams, you mean to tell me if the go 11-8 in those games they'll miss the tournament? Preposterous.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Regardless of win or lose against Vandy - I can't see any possible way a team that goes 11-7 in the Big East won't get in..maybe even 10-8 and even losing in the first round of the tournament probably gets you in.  To finish with 10 wins..a team is going to have to beat at least 1 or 2 Top 10 teams at present.  MU has no "bad" losses per se..very close margins of defeat against Duke, UW, Gonazaga (who are starting to look more respectable with Washington State proving to be legit.)

It's happened before, so it's definitely possible not to get in.  Syracuse was a classic example in 2007.  They went 10-6 (prior to 18 game schedule) in conference and did not get in. 

In other years, Providence went 10-8 and were denied.  West Virginia 9-7, denied.  DePaul 9-7 and denied.  Notre Dame 9-7 and denied...twice. 

[MarquetteDano]

Regardless of win or lose against Vandy - I can't see any possible way a team that goes 11-7 in the Big East won't get in..maybe even 10-8 and even losing in the first round of the tournament probably gets you in.  To finish with 10 wins..a team is going to have to beat at least 1 or 2 Top 10 teams at present.  MU has no "bad" losses per se..very close margins of defeat against Duke, UW, Gonazaga (who are starting to look more respectable with Washington State proving to be legit.)

You may be right about 11-7, but that is still a tall order with this team to go 11-7 in the BEast.  And if we do go 10-8 with a first round loss in the BET you are not being honest as I know you will be sweating come Selection Sunday.  There have already been examples of 10-8 teams not making it with better OOC results than we would have had IF we lose to Vandy.

Bottom Line:  win at Vandy and we have some breathing room in the conference portion of our schedule.  Lose at Vandy and the chances of making the tourney just got a lot worse.

[79Warrior]

"Time is Up" is right.  I think Vandy is a must win next week.  Yeah, yeah we could go 12-6/13-5 in the Big East and still get in.  But I don't think we are going 12-6 or better.  If we lose to Vandy, I am not sure 11-7 in the Big East without a good showing in the BET gets us in.  Vandy will give us that critical OOC game that the committee loves.  Plus, it would be on the road.

Time is Up... need to win at Vandy.

Agree. If we go 0-4 in non-conf, I see no way this team wins 10, never mind 11 in the BE. If we cannot get one decent non-conf win, we may be pretenders and not contenders. The BE is much better than many thought, especially murf who inaccurately called it a down year. Last night The Hoyas win big at #17 Memphis. The BE has been excellent in non-conference play.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Seriously dano? Only one or two teams in the history of the new big east missed the tourney with an above .500 record in the beast. Now you're saying 11-7 wont cut it? 11 teams are in the top 50 rpi! Just settle down, 10-8 will likely get you in.....it's the #1 ranked conference. Also, 15 of their final 19 are against top 50 teams, you mean to tell me if the go 11-8 in those games they'll miss the tournament? Preposterous.

Not true

2009 Providence 10-8  missed NCAA
2007 Syracuse 10-6 missed NCAA
2007 West Virginia 9-7 missed NCAA
2007 DePaul 9-7 missed NCAA

[MUfan12]

Not true

2009 Providence 10-8  missed NCAA
2007 Syracuse 10-6 missed NCAA

Those two teams give me cause for concern, especially that Syracuse team. Yes, they got screwed, but they played a non-con schedule right at the same level MU did this year.

[NersEllenson]

Not true

2009 Providence 10-8  missed NCAA
2007 Syracuse 10-6 missed NCAA
2007 West Virginia 9-7 missed NCAA
2007 DePaul 9-7 missed NCAA

Not all things are equal..as the strength of the Big East Conference has varied from 2007, 2008, 2009 and 2010.

[NersEllenson]

You may be right about 11-7, but that is still a tall order with this team to go 11-7 in the BEast.  And if we do go 10-8 with a first round loss in the BET you are not being honest as I know you will be sweating come Selection Sunday.  There have already been examples of 10-8 teams not making it with better OOC results than we would have had IF we lose to Vandy.

Bottom Line:  win at Vandy and we have some breathing room in the conference portion of our schedule.  Lose at Vandy and the chances of making the tourney just got a lot worse.

I can agree with the bolded part...but as I mentioned earlier..to finish 10-8 in this year's Big East..MU would have to beat 1 or 2 top 10-20 teams to finish 10-8.  They have 9 games against non-ranked teams right now..and that includes West Virginia who is fairly highly regarded...and they have 9 games against Top 25 teams...of those 6 are against Top 10 teams.  Lots of chances for signature wins.

[brewcity77]

We wouldn't have to beat two teams that are in the top 10 right now. What if those significant wins are all at home? Does anyone really think 10-8 with no good non-con wins and no good road wins equates to a trip to the NCAAs? Even 11-7 probably isn't a lock. Assume the following 11 wins:

Home: West Virginia, Rutgers, Notre Dame, DePaul, Seton Hall, Providence, Cincinnati

Road: St. John's, South Florida, Seton Hall, Louisville

Is there anything there that screams "let this team in"? Based on the current rankings, that's one win over a top 25 team, and that being at home. If we went one and done in the BEast tourney, I really don't think that 11-7 would do it. Just my opinion.

[willie warrior]

I'm not one to question a coach's motives often, but as a fan watching the game it seems much of the inconsistency stems from the fact that we don't have a true core or players but rather a spattering of players who are never playing with the same guys.  I never feel like I can get my mind organized in the game since the same guys are never on the floor (maybe this is supposed to work the same way with the other team?)  I understand that guys need to be subbed, but it seems like nobody knows their role on this team yet.  At some point I would expect Buzz to assign those roles and let guys settle in.  Maybe that's where some consistency will show up?

"Splattering" is a very descriptive way of identifying Buzz's substitution patterns.
he is absolutely wrong in playing Crowder in the post, and absolutely wron in playing Bikes at the Point. But if you criticize him for it, the cavalry comes to his defense with all sorts of subjective reasoning.

[willie warrior]

Seriously dano? Only one or two teams in the history of the new big east missed the tourney with an above .500 record in the beast. Now you're saying 11-7 wont cut it? 11 teams are in the top 50 rpi! Just settle down, 10-8 will likely get you in.....it's the #1 ranked conference. Also, 15 of their final 19 are against top 50 teams, you mean to tell me if the go 11-8 in those games they'll miss the tournament? Preposterous.

We need at least two, probably three quality wins to get in the dance. We have none right now, and loading up on cupcakes has not prepared us for the GT's, Pitts, Syracuses, Villanovas, etc.

[NersEllenson]

We wouldn't have to beat two teams that are in the top 10 right now. What if those significant wins are all at home? Does anyone really think 10-8 with no good non-con wins and no good road wins equates to a trip to the NCAAs? Even 11-7 probably isn't a lock. Assume the following 11 wins:

Home: West Virginia, Rutgers, Notre Dame, DePaul, Seton Hall, Providence, Cincinnati

Road: St. John's, South Florida, Seton Hall, Louisville

Is there anything there that screams "let this team in"? Based on the current rankings, that's one win over a top 25 team, and that being at home. If we went one and done in the BEast tourney, I really don't think that 11-7 would do it. Just my opinion.

Sorry Brew..but you are crazy if you don't think 11-7 gets you in.   Lville is 25 currently..Notre Dame is 20..so there are 2 wins ver Top 25 teams.  Ken Pom has West Virginia at 18..Wisconsin at 14..I just don't believe that the whole obsession with "non conference wins" matters that much now that we are in the Big East.  It was always HUGE in the past for us when we were in CUSA, Great Midwest, etc...but the Big East as a league has done well enough out of conference this year that we will be fine.  Again..thre are NO bad losses yet...and I doubt this team will have a bad loss this year.  Bad definied as to a team lower than 100 in the RPI..

[4everwarriors]

Regardless if we beat Vandy or not, here's the reality check. It will be a major step for this team to break .500 in the BE.

[Dr. Blackheart]

MU goes as our frontline goes in the BE.  Small Ball has hurt us this season:  Bucknell, Zags, Wisky to start the 2nd half and for the opening even against MVS until Otule was inserted. Looking at the match-up games, we need size to compete.  If Joe stays healthy, EWill develops, our 5's progress into serviceable on both ends, we have a chance.  Crowder cannot play the post and Jimmy is needed more for his scoring this year rather than his inside/backside game of a season ago.  We have pieces, just don't know if we have all of them yet.

[brewcity77]

Sorry Brew..but you are crazy if you don't think 11-7 gets you in.   Lville is 25 currently..Notre Dame is 20..so there are 2 wins ver Top 25 teams.  Ken Pom has West Virginia at 18..Wisconsin at 14..I just don't believe that the whole obsession with "non conference wins" matters that much now that we are in the Big East.  It was always HUGE in the past for us when we were in CUSA, Great Midwest, etc...but the Big East as a league has done well enough out of conference this year that we will be fine.  Again..thre are NO bad losses yet...and I doubt this team will have a bad loss this year.  Bad definied as to a team lower than 100 in the RPI..

I just don't think that would make us a lock. Maybe they are in the other poll, but Louisville was unranked when I posted that. What if ND falls out of the rankings? The BEast will beat up on itself and could result in us having no victories over ranked teams come March. And what if there are 8 other BEast teams that do have signature wins? 11-7 is a likely bid, but you can't tell me those 11 wins would be a slam dunk to get us dancing.

[spartan3186]

Not true

2009 Providence 10-8  missed NCAA
2007 Syracuse 10-6 missed NCAA
2007 West Virginia 9-7 missed NCAA
2007 DePaul 9-7 missed NCAA

Providence and Syracuse both would have made the field with 68 teams.

[NersEllenson]

I just don't think that would make us a lock. Maybe they are in the other poll, but Louisville was unranked when I posted that. What if ND falls out of the rankings? The BEast will beat up on itself and could result in us having no victories over ranked teams come March. And what if there are 8 other BEast teams that do have signature wins? 11-7 is a likely bid, but you can't tell me those 11 wins would be a slam dunk to get us dancing.

I do respect your point generally..but just feel that 11 wins is a slam dunk..no matter who we beat to get to 11 wins in the Big East.  Hopefully..and this may be a big hopefully..we actually get to see what happens if we do get to 11 wins!!  I think all of us can agree that we'd be happy with an 11 win season in the Big East...and I do feel it is a legitimate possibility for us to get to 11...even given what has seemed to be some choppy play thus far.  Think the team gets better and better as the weeks go on..

[nomorebuycks]

Can everyone agree that losses to Vanderbilt and WV pretty much takes MU out of any NCAA equation?

[4everwarriors]

Yikes Buycks! No man, far too early for the fat broad to sing. However, you probably will get a few cats to agree that this year's team would have to do a quick 180 to penetrate even a soft bubble.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Sorry Brew..but you are crazy if you don't think 11-7 gets you in.   Lville is 25 currently..Notre Dame is 20..so there are 2 wins ver Top 25 teams.  Ken Pom has West Virginia at 18..Wisconsin at 14..I just don't believe that the whole obsession with "non conference wins" matters that much now that we are in the Big East.  It was always HUGE in the past for us when we were in CUSA, Great Midwest, etc...but the Big East as a league has done well enough out of conference this year that we will be fine.  Again..thre are NO bad losses yet...and I doubt this team will have a bad loss this year.  Bad definied as to a team lower than 100 in the RPI..

When Providence was not let in, they had wins over top 5 Pittsburgh (and a number 1 seed), top 20 Syracuse (a number3 seed), won their first round Big East tournament game and still weren't let in.

At the end of the day, NOTHING is guaranteed.  Calling someone crazy or delusional for stating their opinion when the very same outcome has occurred in the past to other teams, seems wrong.

Incidentally, that 2009 Providence team played in a Ken Pom ranked Big East conference that was ranked third in the nation.  The 2010-11 Big East, 3rd ranked also by Ken Pom.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Providence and Syracuse both would have made the field with 68 teams.

We don't know that....just speculation on your part.  They might have.  There is no telling what the committee is going to do with those extra spots.  Will they reward more mid major programs or go to the blueblood conferences?  None of us knows.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Can everyone agree that losses to Vanderbilt and WV pretty much takes MU out of any NCAA equation?

I expect us to lose to Vanderbilt...I expect us to beat West Virginia.  A loss at home to West Virginia would be a big hit. 

[NersEllenson]

When Providence was not let in, they had wins over top 5 Pittsburgh (and a number 1 seed), top 20 Syracuse (a number3 seed), won their first round Big East tournament game and still weren't let in.

At the end of the day, NOTHING is guaranteed.  Calling someone crazy or delusional for stating their opinion when the very same outcome has occurred in the past to other teams, seems wrong.Incidentally, that 2009 Providence team played in a Ken Pom ranked Big East conference that was ranked third in the nation.  The 2010-11 Big East, 3rd ranked also by Ken Pom.

At this rate it will be highly unlikely the Big East finishes as the 3rd ranked conference in the land.  Pardon my utilization of the word "crazy" when I told Brew -sorry, but you are crazy if you don't think 11 Big East wins is a lock.  Brew - I assume you didn't take my comment literally..I don't think you are legitimately crazy. And Chicos - if you can find me an example of an 11-7 Big East team that hasn't made the NCAA - I'd appreciate it.  To me, that opinion of yours...seem wrong.  Thank you.

[ChicosBailBonds]

At this rate it will be highly unlikely the Big East finishes as the 3rd ranked conference in the land.  Pardon my utilization of the word "crazy" when I told Brew -sorry, but you are crazy if you don't think 11 Big East wins is a lock.  Brew - I assume you didn't take my comment literally..I don't think you are legitimately crazy. And Chicos - if you can find me an example of an 11-7 Big East team that hasn't made the NCAA - I'd appreciate it.  To me, that opinion of yours...seem wrong.  Thank you.

I found you 10-6...same 4 games over .500 and they didn't make it.  In fact, winning 10 of 16 games is a better winning percentage than winning 11 of 18.

I would agree that 11-7 is darn close to a lock, but it DOES depend who the 11 wins are against and where.  Seeing this team win 11 games in the Big East is hard to fathom right now, but maybe they get it going in the next few weeks to change that opinion.  Right now every service I've seen predicts no NCAA for MU and the computer predictions say the same thing.  We're going to need to change some minds with some meaningful wins...Time Is UP

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

Can everyone agree that losses to Vanderbilt and WV pretty much takes MU out of any NCAA equation?

And here I thought the Wisconsin troll had left.

[bilsu]

I think 10-8 gets you into the NCAA, but I do not see any chance of this team winning 10 games in the Big East. Other teams have as much talent and more experience.

[NersEllenson]

I found you 10-6...same 4 games over .500 and they didn't make it.  In fact, winning 10 of 16 games is a better winning percentage than winning 11 of 18.

I would agree that 11-7 is darn close to a lock, but it DOES depend who the 11 wins are against and where.  Seeing this team win 11 games in the Big East is hard to fathom right now, but maybe they get it going in the next few weeks to change that opinion.  Right now every service I've seen predicts no NCAA for MU and the computer predictions say the same thing.  We're going to need to change some minds with some meaningful wins...Time Is UP

Fair enough...but..there is no precedent that has yet been set for an 11-7 team from the Big East to not make the tourney.  I don't see time as being UP until MU has 9 losses in the Big East. At that point..I'd concede we are darn close to a lock for the NIT.  But what if MU loses 9 Big East games, but has 3 or 4 wins over Pitt, Nova, Gtown and UCONN?  Do 4 wins over Top 10 teams not count as signature?  Though they say the committee may no longer put as much weight on your last 10 games - it is still somewhat considered...a team that finishes on a 10-game winning streak or goes 9-1 over its last ten, certainly gets some consideration as opposed to a team with a similar record that goes 5-5 over its last 10.  Guess my only point is that there are so many scenarios that can factor into these things from one year to the next...that no year is exactly like the prior year...but it would be shocking if an 11-7 team from the Big Easts didn't make the tourney..probably in any year..but certainly very shocking this year..considering how well the league as a whole has performed out of conference..

[mileskishnish72]

I don't think er have had a very good record over the last few years in beating teams ahead of us in the BE.
The team we have seen so far this year doesn't look as if they'll change that either. This team is going to have to jell in a big fat hurry to be a .500 BE ream. Here's hoping.

[brewcity77]

Brew - I assume you didn't take my comment literally..I don't think you are legitimately crazy.

I didn't, but the men in the little white coats sure did. Thankfully, you posted this just in time for me to show them and save me a ride to the looney bin

Merry Christmas, all.

[mviale]

I expect us to lose to Vanderbilt...I expect us to beat West Virginia.  A loss at home to West Virginia would be a big hit. 

With this team and current progress, I would expect big losses against these teams.  1-1 would mean tremendous progress, 2-0 would mean tournament is coming our way.

[79Warrior]

With this team and current progress, I would expect big losses against these teams.  1-1 would mean tremendous progress, 2-0 would mean tournament is coming our way.

You expect a big loss at home to WVU? If we can't compete against WVU at home then it will indeed be a very long season.

[NersEllenson]

With this team and current progress, I would expect big losses against these teams.  1-1 would mean tremendous progress, 2-0 would mean tournament is coming our way.

Not sure why you would expect "big losses?"  I mean if the team gets beat by 5 points by Duke..how much worse can they do against West Virginia and Vanderbilt?

My personal feeling is that we will win both games.  2-0.

[muwarrior69]

We wouldn't have to beat two teams that are in the top 10 right now. What if those significant wins are all at home? Does anyone really think 10-8 with no good non-con wins and no good road wins equates to a trip to the NCAAs? Even 11-7 probably isn't a lock. Assume the following 11 wins:

Home: West Virginia, Rutgers, Notre Dame, DePaul, Seton Hall, Providence, Cincinnati

Road: St. John's, South Florida, Seton Hall, Louisville

Is there anything there that screams "let this team in"? Based on the current rankings, that's one win over a top 25 team, and that being at home. If we went one and done in the BEast tourney, I really don't think that 11-7 would do it. Just my opinion.

Rutgers is a road game, it's only game I get to see the team in person.

[mviale]

Yes, I expect losses against WVU and Vandy.  WVU is not really a home game on 1/1 at 10 am in the morning.  Also Vandy is solid and I believe WVU is better than Vandy.

Again 1-1 would be progress and 2-0 would be ossm.  However, this is the benefit of low expectations.

  

[ChicosBailBonds]

With this team and current progress, I would expect big losses against these teams.  1-1 would mean tremendous progress, 2-0 would mean tournament is coming our way.

WVU is a team we have to beat to meet all these predictions thrown around on this board.  We aren't going to beat Vanderbilt (well, I give us less than 25%) but WVU is one of those games at the end of the year you have to win at home.

WVU has been less than spectacular away from home this year.  Beating Duquense by 3 points, losing to Miami, FL, losing to Minnesota on a neutral court...they did beat Vandy on a neutral court, however.

[mviale]

exactly chicos - I think wvu is the harder game.  They beat Vandy and played tough against a strong Minn team.

However, with these low expectations, I hope to be surprised.

[ChicosBailBonds]

exactly chicos - I think wvu is the harder game.  They beat Vandy and played tough against a strong Minn team.

However, with these low expectations, I hope to be surprised.

Yes, but they beat Vandy on a neutral court in the 3rd game of the season.  I don't understand what you mean by the "harder" game for WVU.  The game is at home for MU while Vandy is on the road....how does that make the WVU game harder for us?

[mviale]

With this team and current progress, I would expect big losses against these teams.  1-1 would mean tremendous progress, 2-0 would mean tournament is coming our way.

TREMENDOUS PROGRESS

[ChicosBailBonds]

TREMENDOUS PROGRESS

And you doubted we would win this game....WHERE IS YOUR CONFIDENCE IN BUZZ?