MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: SaveOD238 on March 22, 2018, 09:50:05 AM
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Sorry if this was discussed elsewhere, but I like this idea. A lot.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/22860872/big-east-replace-1-done-2-none
The two-or-none policy is similar to what exists in baseball and hockey, two sports where we rarely hear complaints about student-athletes getting paid. It allows the 5-star talents to go straight to the NBA from high school, but it solidifies the college game by requiring players to stay two years. Sure, college hoops won't have DeAndre Aytons anymore, but for every Ayton there are 10 Jalen Brunsons or Jimmy Butlers who aren't able to go straight to the league.
The other piece of the proposal is to create a "high-level" players task force that helps manage the agent/draft process for elite players. It seems a lot more reasonable for the NCAA to find ways to moderate the money issues with elite players by bringing them out into the open, rather than banning everything and forcing it under the table. It's the same idea as legalizing marijuana and then regulating it, rather than keeping it illegal and thus creating a crime-ridden black market.
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The NBA and NCAA need to get together to work on this. Allow anyone over 18 to be drafted and then have the team work with the player on what may be his best options: NBA, G-League immediately, or go to college. They could even participate on NBA summer league teams in between college seasons.
After two years, the NBA team can either sign them or rescind their draft rights. Allow agents to advise players as well.
Similar to what hockey does. It works fine.
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The NBA and NCAA need to get together to work on this. Allow anyone over 18 to be drafted and then have the team work with the player on what may be his best options: NBA, G-League immediately, or go to college. They could even participate on NBA summer league teams in between college seasons.
After two years, the NBA team can either sign them or rescind their draft rights. Allow agents to advise players as well.
Similar to what hockey does. It works fine.
The problem with this is that it makes it much easier to tank.
Have a terrible year. Get your top 5 pick, tell him to go to college so that you can tank next year, get another top 5 pick, put him in the G league for a year, so you can get another top 5 pick. Then bring all three "rookies" together after three years of intentional tanking.
I think that if you take a player out of high school there should be a rule in place that you can't take another until the original player is officially in the league, although I could think of quite a few loopholes that teams could come up with to get around this as well.
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They could even participate on NBA summer league teams in between college seasons.
This might be a little too close to professionalism for the NCAA, but what about a program like the summer wood bat baseball leagues like the Northwoods League? There would be a huge market for this, especially in the medium-sized cities that can only host minor-league sports. Racine would host a team, I'm sure.
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The problem with this is that it makes it much easier to tank.
Have a terrible year. Get your top 5 pick, tell him to go to college so that you can tank next year, get another top 5 pick, put him in the G league for a year, so you can get another top 5 pick. Then bring all three "rookies" together after three years of intentional tanking.
I think that if you take a player out of high school there should be a rule in place that you can't take another until the original player is officially in the league, although I could think of quite a few loopholes that teams could come up with to get around this as well.
I see no difference between that system and the one they could just shove them into the d league now.
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The problem with this is that it makes it much easier to tank.
Have a terrible year. Get your top 5 pick, tell him to go to college so that you can tank next year, get another top 5 pick, put him in the G league for a year, so you can get another top 5 pick. Then bring all three "rookies" together after three years of intentional tanking.
I think that if you take a player out of high school there should be a rule in place that you can't take another until the original player is officially in the league, although I could think of quite a few loopholes that teams could come up with to get around this as well.
Either than or have the NBA implement the wheel system for its draft rather than basing it on the records from the year before.
http://nba.nbcsports.com/2013/12/23/report-nba-considering-doing-away-with-draft-lottery-going-to-30-year-set-wheel-cycle/
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Wouldn't this just create the same problem as the 1 and done but one year later into a players' career?
There are guys almost every year who coming out of high school are thought to be solid players but far from NBA ready prospects that blow up their freshman year that would be forced to spend a second year in college. Heck, Trae Young this year is an example of this. He would've been far from a sure fire high school to NBA lottery pick had he been able to, probably could've used the year in college, but now is obviously ready to enter the NBA Draft. But he'd be penalized for going to college at all and required to stay at Oklahoma for another season.
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This might be a little too close to professionalism for the NCAA, but what about a program like the summer wood bat baseball leagues like the Northwoods League? There would be a huge market for this, especially in the medium-sized cities that can only host minor-league sports. Racine would host a team, I'm sure.
Yeah I think the entire problem is the NCAA's obsession with amateaurism anyway.
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I see no difference between that system and the one they could just shove them into the d league now.
If they go to college they'd be guaranteed to be 2 years away from the NBA. Correct me if I'm wrong but players can go from the d league to the NBA and back multiple times in the same season.
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If they go to college they'd be guaranteed to be 2 years away from the NBA. Correct me if I'm wrong but players can go from the d league to the NBA and back multiple times in the same season.
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But if a team is intentionally ranking to get another pick the next year then they can have that guy in the d league all year.
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What happens if a guy signs an LOI and decides afterwards (say, well after the spring signing period) that he wants to declare for the draft?
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The problem with this is that it makes it much easier to tank.
Have a terrible year. Get your top 5 pick, tell him to go to college so that you can tank next year, get another top 5 pick, put him in the G league for a year, so you can get another top 5 pick. Then bring all three "rookies" together after three years of intentional tanking.
I think that if you take a player out of high school there should be a rule in place that you can't take another until the original player is officially in the league, although I could think of quite a few loopholes that teams could come up with to get around this as well.
In theory, this could be a problem, but not in the scenario you're proposing... the odds of having a HS player in the top 5 of a draft and being in a position to draft said player in a single year are long enough, let alone three years in a row.
Not to mention, if you're drafted in the top 5, you're not going to want to postpone your $multi-million payday for 1-2 years.
This would be more of a risk with guys at the bottom of the 2nd round... but then, nobody's tanking to get the 49th pick in the draft.
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What happens if a guy signs an LOI and decides afterwards (say, well after the spring signing period) that he wants to declare for the draft?
They may be drafted and have choices to make.
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Also if this is done at the ncaa level what's stopping the player from saying dueces at the end of year one since they can't actually stop them legally.
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What happens if a guy signs an LOI and decides afterwards (say, well after the spring signing period) that he wants to declare for the draft?
Happens every year with hockey and baseball players.
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#Unleash
True and I think that's one of the biggest problems in the NBA right now, and I don't think this solves it.
What Philly did to get a top 3 pick four years in a row should have absolutely not been allowed.
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Also if this is done at the ncaa level what's stopping the player from saying dueces at the end of year one since they can't actually stop them legally.
NCAA can't do it by themselves. They'd have to work with the NBA, just like the NCAA does with the NHL and MLB
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The draft is in June. If kids get drafted, when would they decide on whether to go to college? July or August? That's pretty close to the start of the fall semester. If Kentucky has four players decide they want to go to the NBA in the late summer, their available scholarship players will be pretty low.
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The draft is in June. If kids get drafted, when would they decide on whether to go to college? July or August? That's pretty close to the start of the fall semester. If Kentucky has four players decide they want to go to the NBA in the late summer, their available scholarship players will be pretty low.
You make a very valid point, but at the same time I think there would be very little sympathy for teams like Kentucky or Duke if this did happen.
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Pay the players what they're worth and poof all the recruiting violations go away.
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The draft is in June. If kids get drafted, when would they decide on whether to go to college? July or August? That's pretty close to the start of the fall semester. If Kentucky has four players decide they want to go to the NBA in the late summer, their available scholarship players will be pretty low.
Why is it so many are far more concerned with protecting the best interests of the billion dollar industries involved here, and not those of the individual kids?
If that happens to Kentucky, tough. They, and everyone else, will have to adjust their recruiting priorities to the new reality. Again, hockey programs have been dealing with this for a few decades (and even worse, when you consider 18-year-old players also have the option to play Canadian junior hockey) and somehow have managed to survive.
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Have the draft lottery include every team and give each team with an equal shot. Eliminate the incentive for teams to be bad.
The current system rewards teams for being bad.
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Have the draft lottery include every team and give each team with an equal shot. Eliminate the incentive for teams to be bad.
The current system rewards teams for being bad.
Then how do the bad teams ever get good or have hope? Then, why as a fan am I going to the games? Its not like other sports where you might find a gem who will become a superstar in the later rounds, or even late in the first round. I understand something has to be done about tanking, but not sure avoiding giving any advantage to the poorer teams is the answer.
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Have the draft lottery include every team and give each team with an equal shot. Eliminate the incentive for teams to be bad.
The current system rewards teams for being bad.
I think they should have a single elimination tournament for all the NBA teams that don't make the playoffs. Seed it so the better your record, the easier your path. Winners advance and the tournament champ gets the #1 overall seed. Include loser brackets so every pick is determined on the court and you have to win to get rewarded. It would also encourage teams in the lottery to play well late to get the best seeding.
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I think they should have a single elimination tournament for all the NBA teams that don't make the playoffs. Seed it so the better your record, the easier your path. Winners advance and the tournament champ gets the #1 overall seed. Include loser brackets so every pick is determined on the court and you have to win to get rewarded. It would also encourage teams in the lottery to play well late to get the best seeding.
Then you're better off being the first team out of the playoffs than the last team in, so you'll have the odd spectacle of borderline teams fighting to not make the playoffs. The NBA is an unusual league because in any given year roughly 75% of the teams that make the playoffs have a less than 1% chance of winning the title. The other leagues teams can think "if we just sneak into the playoffs and get hot at the right time we could win a championship." Not so in the NBA. Don't know how you fix that.
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I think they should have a single elimination tournament for all the NBA teams that don't make the playoffs. Seed it so the better your record, the easier your path. Winners advance and the tournament champ gets the #1 overall seed. Include loser brackets so every pick is determined on the court and you have to win to get rewarded. It would also encourage teams in the lottery to play well late to get the best seeding.
How motivated are players going to be to help their team land a really good player that will replace them?
Like, if I'm Robin Lopez, do I bust my tail in this tournament to help the Bulls land Ayton or Bamba?
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Pay the players what they're worth and poof all the recruiting violations go away.
And how do you determine what they're worth? Are all DI players equal, so Froling gets as much as Ayton or Young? Or do you get a higher salary from UK or Duke based on revenues? A bonus for making all-conference or all-American?
You might eliminate recruiting violations, but you'd have to create a whole new set of rules that would then be violated....
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How motivated are players going to be to help their team land a really good player that will replace them?
Like, if I'm Robin Lopez, do I bust my tail in this tournament to help the Bulls land Ayton or Bamba?
Exactly. No professional player is going to be motivated to play in that.
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I heard a proposal the other day that the NBA should have an NCAA-style single elimination tournament at the end of the season for the teams that "DON'T" make the play-offs. The winner gets the 1st draft pick and also could be given the 16th spot in the NBA playoffs. Runner-up gets 2nd draft pick. Along the lines of that.
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And how do you determine what they're worth? Are all DI players equal, so Froling gets as much as Ayton or Young? Or do you get a higher salary from UK or Duke based on revenues? A bonus for making all-conference or all-American?
You might eliminate recruiting violations, but you'd have to create a whole new set of rules that would then be violated....
You pay them whatever it takes to get them on campus. You can write bonuses into their contract if that's what it takes.
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I heard a proposal the other day that the NBA should have an NCAA-style single elimination tournament at the end of the season for the teams that "DON'T" make the play-offs. The winner gets the 1st draft pick and also could be given the 16th spot in the NBA playoffs. Runner-up gets 2nd draft pick. Along the lines of that.
Wouldn't it behoove a really good team to tank the regular season, then win this tournament, allowing them to get the #1 pick AND compete for a title?
Also, this would require eliminating the conference playoff structure.
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I heard a proposal the other day that the NBA should have an NCAA-style single elimination tournament at the end of the season for the teams that "DON'T" make the play-offs. The winner gets the 1st draft pick and also could be given the 16th spot in the NBA playoffs. Runner-up gets 2nd draft pick. Along the lines of that.
You mean the idea that was mentioned just over an hour ago in this very same topic?
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=56111.msg1010759#msg1010759
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How motivated are players going to be to help their team land a really good player that will replace them?
In a transient league, you may end up on a different team, but you'll still have a job. And if guys decide to stop playing at the end of the season, that could impact their next contract (unlike sitting out of the NIT). And coaches would be motivated to get that pick. It'd make the end of the season far more interesting and certainly make the end of season tank job less enticing.
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Then you're better off being the first team out of the playoffs than the last team in, so you'll have the odd spectacle of borderline teams fighting to not make the playoffs. The NBA is an unusual league because in any given year roughly 75% of the teams that make the playoffs have a less than 1% chance of winning the title. The other leagues teams can think "if we just sneak into the playoffs and get hot at the right time we could win a championship." Not so in the NBA. Don't know how you fix that.
You reduce the number of games in a series. You're right that only 1-2 teams have a prayer of beating the Warriors 4 out of 7 times, 3 out of 5 or 2 out of 3? More teams have hope.
Of course that's a non-starter becasue of $$$$$$$
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Happens every year with hockey and baseball players.
Those aren't important college sports, though. ;D
I vote that the rule should be that if you sign an LOI, you aren't eligible for the draft. However, if you don't get drafted, you are immediately eligible to play in the NCAA.
It would be very entertaining to watch all the coaches attack the dumped chum bucket of NBA rejects.
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I saw my favorite proposal for the NBA draft lottery on twitter.
Non playoff teams in lottery. Two waited factors: Losses before all star break and wins after all star break.
Bad teams still get better lottery odds but late season tanking has no benefit. Winning actually has a reward.
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You pay them whatever it takes to get them on campus. You can write bonuses into their contract if that's what it takes.
3 things to consider:
1)The NBA does not trust themselves to draft 18 year olds. For every Lebron and Kobe, there are 30 Kwame Browns that are busts and get paid way too much money. Even the one and dones get paid much more than what they actually contribute to their teams. The NBA is a mans game and most 18 and 19 year olds are flat out not ready. No need to make them millionaires if they’re not ready. Go to college and prove yourself. Or go to the G league and prove yourself.
2) Put a monetary value on the exposure that NCAA players receive. How much exposure did Trae Young receive this season? How much value did he add to his future earnings by playing at Oklahoma? If he went to the G League, collected a salary and put up similar numbers, would anyone here know about it? Even for the players that don’t make the NBA, how many doors will be opened for them professionally from the exposure they received?
3) The overwhelming majority of NCAA players are replaceable and the talent gap is not as wide as many think. Marquette fans will show up, tune in and cheer for whatever young men put on the Marquette uniform. Same goes for most schools. If at the beginning of the season, you took out who you thought were the 30 best players in college basketball, put them in the NBA, and reshuffled the remaining talent, would the NCAA season and tournament be any less competitive or compelling? Would you not watch it?
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You mean the idea that was mentioned just over an hour ago in this very same topic?
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=56111.msg1010759#msg1010759
The optics of the worst teams in the league duking it out for the #1 seed aren't good in my mind. Might be even worse than the tanking. How many fans are going to show up? You might need to host these games in the AL.
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You pay them whatever it takes to get them on campus. You can write bonuses into their contract if that's what it takes.
So why bother with the campuses, or classes...or with college teams at all for that matter? Might just as well let them all go to the NBA today...
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Pay the players what they're worth and poof all the recruiting violations go away.
Legalize marijuana and all the illegal marijuana goes away.
Your idea is up in smoke.
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What about allowing them to be drafted and stay in school like college hockey? I'm sure thatd alleviate some stress for the player of needing to leave right away and if they preferred college life to being stashed in the GLeague (ellenson) then they could stay and rep the school while knowing they can sign and negotiate when they'd like to leave School
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What about allowing them to be drafted and stay in school like college? I'm sure thatd alleviate some stress for the player of needing to leave right away and if they preferred college life to being stashed in the GLeague (ellenson) then they could stay and rep the school while knowing they can sign and negotiate when they'd like to leave School
Agreed.
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Legalize marijuana and all the illegal marijuana goes away.
Your idea is up in smoke.
What? It certainly makes it significantly improved.
Just like there's still moonshine made illegally, but not as much a problem as if we had prohibition
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3 things to consider:
1)The NBA does not trust themselves to draft 18 year olds. For every Lebron and Kobe, there are 30 Kwame Browns that are busts and get paid way too much money. Even the one and dones get paid much more than what they actually contribute to their teams. The NBA is a mans game and most 18 and 19 year olds are flat out not ready. No need to make them millionaires if they’re not ready. Go to college and prove yourself. Or go to the G league and prove yourself.
2) Put a monetary value on the exposure that NCAA players receive. How much exposure did Trae Young receive this season? How much value did he add to his future earnings by playing at Oklahoma? If he went to the G League, collected a salary and put up similar numbers, would anyone here know about it? Even for the players that don’t make the NBA, how many doors will be opened for them professionally from the exposure they received?
3) The overwhelming majority of NCAA players are replaceable and the talent gap is not as wide as many think. Marquette fans will show up, tune in and cheer for whatever young men put on the Marquette uniform. Same goes for most schools. If at the beginning of the season, you took out who you thought were the 30 best players in college basketball, put them in the NBA, and reshuffled the remaining talent, would the NCAA season and tournament be any less competitive or compelling? Would you not watch it?
It's not just NBA talents that deserve to be paid. Recruiting is fierce for many players that have no shot of making the league. Just deregulate the NCAA and make them compete financially for talent like every other business in the world. Winning men's basketball and football teams are very valuable to universities. Beyond ticket sales and TV money, donations and applications go way up when a team does well.
I will never be persuaded that the players for revenue sports should be compensated the same as the non-revenue sports players. I think it's immoral to do so. Non-revenue sports should be club sports. Revenue sports should be able to keep their money and use it to compensate their players.
Title IX needs to be scrapped in college athletics as well. Women make up 56% of college students now and are graduating at a higher rate than men. There's no reason a field hockey player should receive a scholarship.
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It's not just NBA talents that deserve to be paid. Recruiting is fierce for many players that have no shot of making the league. Just deregulate the NCAA and make them compete financially for talent like every other business in the world. Winning men's basketball and football teams are very valuable to universities. Beyond ticket sales and TV money, donations and applications go way up when a team does well.
I will never be persuaded that the players for revenue sports should be compensated the same as the non-revenue sports players. I think it's immoral to do so. Non-revenue sports should be club sports. Revenue sports should be able to keep their money and use it to compensate their players.
Title IX needs to be scrapped in college athletics as well. Women make up 56% of college students now and are graduating at a higher rate than men. There's no reason a field hockey player should receive a scholarship.
Not all sports are revenue producers at every university. Some schools turn profits in hockey and baseball most don't. We've turned profit in women's basketball most don't. Are you referring just to Football and Basketball? What about programs that aren't winning and racking in big money?
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Not all sports are revenue producers at every university. Some schools turn profits in hockey and baseball most don't. We've turned profit in women's basketball most don't. Are you referring just to Football and Basketball? What about programs that aren't winning and racking in big money?
Football and basketball are the examples I used because those have traditionally been the revenue sports, but I'd say any sport you can at least break even on could be viable. I know hockey is a money maker in the Dakotas so for sure they'd want to keep going. Women's volleyball does well in Nebraska so same thing. Sports that aren't making any money at individual universities might need to become club sports.
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It's not just NBA talents that deserve to be paid. Recruiting is fierce for many players that have no shot of making the league. Just deregulate the NCAA and make them compete financially for talent like every other business in the world. Winning men's basketball and football teams are very valuable to universities. Beyond ticket sales and TV money, donations and applications go way up when a team does well.
I will never be persuaded that the players for revenue sports should be compensated the same as the non-revenue sports players. I think it's immoral to do so. Non-revenue sports should be club sports. Revenue sports should be able to keep their money and use it to compensate their players.
Title IX needs to be scrapped in college athletics as well. Women make up 56% of college students now and are graduating at a higher rate than men. There's no reason a field hockey player should receive a scholarship.
1. Every sport is a "revenue sport."
2. Odd notion of morality.
3. Title IX should definitely NOT be scrapped for college athletics.
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1. Every sport is a "revenue sport."
2. Odd notion of morality.
3. Title IX should definitely NOT be scrapped for college athletics.
1. Positive net income sport takes too long to type out. Everyone knows what I mean by revenue sports, including you.
2. Intentionally underpaying people is immoral.
3. Very compelling argument.
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1. Positive net income sport takes too long to type out. Everyone knows what I mean by revenue sports, including you.
2. Intentionally underpaying people is immoral.
3. Very compelling argument.
Another person who equates economics with ethics. ::)
You don't differentiate how you treat certain sports because of what the marketplace dictates. That is more unethical than anything.
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Another person who equates economics with ethics. ::)
You don't differentiate how you treat certain sports because of what the marketplace dictates. That is more unethical than anything.
Yet you're completely fine with differentiating people based on different worthless talents. Why should a non-revenue athlete recieve scholarship money and a regular student have to pay their own way? Where's the ethic in that?
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What? It certainly makes it significantly improved.
Just like there's still moonshine made illegally, but not as much a problem as if we had prohibition
Black market is thriving in Colorado. http://bigthink.com/ideafeed/pot-is-legal-in-colorado-so-why-is-the-black-market-for-it-thriving
Boozeman said the violations go away by simply paying the players what they are worth. That doesn't make it so.
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Black market is thriving in Colorado. http://bigthink.com/ideafeed/pot-is-legal-in-colorado-so-why-is-the-black-market-for-it-thriving
Boozeman said the violations go away by simply paying the players what they are worth. That doesn't make it so.
I don't think employment and controlled substances are very good comparisons. What exactly would be the black market if players could be legally paid? I can't think of a black market in other professional sports.
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I don't think employment and controlled substances are very good comparisons. What exactly would be the black market if players could be legally paid? I can't think of a black market in other professional sports.
Human beings desire more, it is in our DNA. You pay someone something, they will still want more. There is truly no such thing as saying pay them and poof, it all goes away. People will double dip, still get paid on the side, anything to get an edge. There would be the official payment from the school, but rest assured under the table there would be more from outside interests. It is naive to think paying players makes it all go away.