A lot of losers on this board

[MUBasketball]

Right now, this post is primarily for RedWebster. Secondary for anybody else complaining about the coaching.

I was there, I was sitting close. It was a hard fought game. MU busted their asses tonight. Dayton is a very good team, anybody that doesn't think so doesn't know anything about basketball. They looked completely different than they did last night, barely beating a very average Auburn team.

After 5 average teams, a lot of people got a little delirious and forgot about the glaring holes with this roster. With Mbakwe's departure, and the injuries to Fulce and Otule, this team is VERY short and has VERY little depth. These aren't excuses, these are realities. A good team was bound to bring us back to earth, and Dayton did that tonight. Kudos to them.

People want to complain about the coaching. What's Buzz supposed to do? The guys typically do a great job on defense, only to give up an offensive board and give the team a fresh start again. So there is a defender "shadowing" in the lane to double the post (what else can you do when the tallest guy is 6'8"?). Dayton is quick and it was difficult to rotate and cover spots having to cover so much ground.

On top of it all, it just wasn't MU's night. You could tell that early. Free throws weren't falling, and plenty of bunnies didn't go either. Also, way too many 3's, no denying that.

I just don't understand why people are surprised? Dayton is a good team. The traveled very well, their fans were very loud. They got momentum numerous times in the night and MU could never get over the hump. Dayton beat Louisville on the road last year, and hammered Pitt at home. We're in good company.

Get used to this fellas, more where this came from. I said all along this team is overrated. We have quick guards who are streaky and a great forward in Hayward, and then there is a HUGE dropoff. Burke is a role player, and the first guys off the bench likely wouldn't see the floor (or much of it) on other Big East teams.

People want to act like the sky is falling or the coach is clueless are complete morons.

[ErickJD08]

From your analysis, the sky is falling.  This is what I got...

Streaky, No depth, Too many threes, no FT's, glaring holes, other players would not see playing time on other Big East team,overrated, and "Get used to this, more where this came from"....

How is your analysis a glass half full???

[MUBasketball]

Haha, good point.

I'm always optimistic and always supportive. However, also realistic. Am I not right? Is there more where this came from? Wisconsin in a week, then vs. Tennessee in Nashville, and @ NC State. Assuming Otule and Fulce are still out for all three, the guys are lucky to win one of those. We're just outmaned right now against other top teams, that's the truth.

Our 6th and 7th and 8th guys off the bench would be further down the depth chart on other top Big East teams. Isn't that true?

Again, I hate to sound like a hater, I'm not. I love this team, love the coaching staff...we just have a lot of holes. Judging by some on this board, if the don't go undefeated then something is terribly wrong, or the coaches are idiots. They lost to a very good team, what's the panic for?

[BuzzSucksSucks]

No need to panic, I agree, but we're essentially 0-1 on the season, and until Buzz gets a true win, there'll be the equivalent of market volatility in MU country.   

[ErickJD08]

HA... DUDE!  I love the team but with the BE as good as it is, I am not confident that our team will be that good this year.  I am just upset because I had sort of high expectations this season and it looks like they are for nothing.  Next year will be a rebuilding year.  And hopefully if Buzz can recruit again next year, we can have a solid 2010 team that looks like a legit D1 team.  Oh, lets start will guys who will play a PG,SG,SF,PF, and C.  And back ups for all of them.  Not this 5 guard line up crap that Crean left us with.

Look at Syracuse, they beat a good FL and KS team.  I don't see us being favored to win against any of the top 7 teams in the big east.  Lets just hope that ten teams make it to the tourney from the big east like some are predicting.  

[ChicosBailBonds]

Haha, good point.

I'm always optimistic and always supportive. However, also realistic. Am I not right? Is there more where this came from? Wisconsin in a week, then vs. Tennessee in Nashville, and @ NC State. Assuming Otule and Fulce are still out for all three, the guys are lucky to win one of those. We're just outmaned right now against other top teams, that's the truth.

Our 6th and 7th and 8th guys off the bench would be further down the depth chart on other top Big East teams. Isn't that true?

Again, I hate to sound like a hater, I'm not. I love this team, love the coaching staff...we just have a lot of holes. Judging by some on this board, if the don't go undefeated then something is terribly wrong, or the coaches are idiots. They lost to a very good team, what's the panic for?

Not so much panic as reality.  Dayton would finish probably 10th in the Big East.  Well, that's what makes people nervous.

Hopefully tonight was just one of those nights, it probably was.  That being said, one expects seniors to make free throws, one expects seniors to take good shots (our offense and defense right now are really strange), etc.

MU will not only face the three teams you just spoke of, but at least 9 teams in league that are better than this Dayton team.

Honestly, I think this team can do great things but also think they could miss the whole enchilada as well.  I have yet to see them play a good defensive game (though it sounds like against Northern Iowa they did....not able to see that game).  As much as people hated our previous offenses, at least there was a screen from time to time or a guard breaking down the defense for a kick out shot.  Didn't see much of that.

Again, hopefully just one of those games.  Dayton is a good team but there are plenty better on our schedule coming up.  Time for this team to shake this off and turn in a good week.

[muguru]

Though I do like Buzz, and am supportive of him, I will say this.....If a team this talented(even with their shortcomings) doesn't make the NCAA tournament this year, then there is only one place to point the finger. I'll let you figure out where it should be pointed.

Hint: Not at Tom Crean

[ErickJD08]

Though I do like Buzz, and am supportive of him, I will say this.....If a team this talented(even with their shortcomings) doesn't make the NCAA tournament this year, then there is only one place to point the finger. I'll let you figure out where it should be pointed.

Hint: Not at Tom Crean

I don't agree.  Our Four are good but they are not going to be able to put up 80 every night.  Crean left the cupboard bare.  ABSOLUTELY NO BIGS and this is a major issue and has been for a while... and he never addressed it.

[chapman]

The way I see it, sure our bench players might not be top notch talent, but they cannot be relegated to cheerleaders while the Big Four hog the ball.  No reason for McNeal to have 23 shots in 33 minutes and the bench takes 5 in 51 minutes.  He's good, but not that good.  Cubillan and Acker can shoot the three.  Set a screen, penetrate and dish out, do something to give them an opportunity to do what they do best.  Butler can drive and draw a foul, so give him a chance instead of sticking him at the 5 and being disappointed when he's not in the flow of the game and fouls himself to the bench.  Bottom line is we won't win a lot of games trying to play 4 against 12.  Buzz likes to keep the offense loose and free, but to get the role players without an all-around game to contribute they need to be accomodated, not relegated to cheerleaders and then subsequently blamed as a main reason for the loss.  We may not have a solid Sixth Man or a guy who can go for 20 off the bench like some teams, but we should expect one or two bench players to score in double figures every game, and so far having one in double figures (at exactly 10 points) has been the exception and not the norm.

[Classof2016]

I don't agree.  Our Four are good but they are not going to be able to put up 80 every night.  Crean left the cupboard bare.  ABSOLUTELY NO BIGS and this is a major issue and has been for a while... and he never addressed it.

Agree 100%.  Right now, we have four quality high D-1 players, and they are a PG, and three SG/SF types who slash, only one of whom is a plus three point shooter.  Not exactly a well-rounded roster.  Our starting C would not see the floor, let alone start, for any other ranked team in America.  Our most competent bench players are a very undersized PG who is a poor defender and an undersized SG.  Our "big men" on the bench are a low D-1 level SF and a low D-1 level PF. 

I will reserve judgment on this team until Fulce and Otule come back, but if they can't give us at least what Barro and Fitzgerald did, we are looking at the NIT. 

[mu_hilltopper]

"We lost to a good team."   No doubt about that.  What the "defenders" are missing is that we have about 16 more games versus "good teams," many who are vastly better than Dayton. 

Being run out of the gym by Dayton is massive cause for concern for the remainder of the season.

Did we "just have a bad night"?  Not sure about that.   Look at the point totals .. Wes had 28, DJ had 19, Jerel had 16.   While they missed a lot of shots, you can't expect a whole lot more from them, in terms of offense.

Can you have a bad night on defense?  Sure.  But all our seniors shouldn't be having a bad night on D, after learning the collegiate game for 3 years already.  

Etc, etc. 

No one knows if the sky is falling.  But there sure are storm clouds.

We all remain hopeful.

[romey]

hilltopper - perhaps one of the more rational posts of the last 24 hours.  No, our season isn't over folks, but was that an Elite 8 team last night?  Just asking the question.  I didn't see the game.  I read the recap, studied the box score, read all the posts.  We got spanked.  Do Elite 8 teams get spanked during the season?  I'm sure there are those of you who can pull up many examples where history will show that they do.  But, as hilltopper pointed out, we face many teams that are MUCH better than Dayton and that scares me.  We may have had an off night, we have a short bench, the refs were poor, etc. etc.  But, in all honesty, I think all of us realize the expectations need an adjustment.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I don't agree.  Our Four are good but they are not going to be able to put up 80 every night.  Crean left the cupboard bare.  ABSOLUTELY NO BIGS and this is a major issue and has been for a while... and he never addressed it.

Left the cupboard bare?  Come on.  3 All Big East players and another guy named Wes Matthews who is probably our best player. 

And from I saw last night, we didn't lose because of a lack of bigs.   We never played zone against a team that less than 24 hours earlier set the NCAA record for 3 point shooting, we didn't stop their dribble penetration, our free throws were horrendous (apparently no need to practice them),  we played with little heart and energy, and what seemed like a helter skelter offensive game plan. 

We will lose games this year due to size, but last night was not one of them.  Last night we lost because of a myriad of other things.

[mugrack]

The record they set 24 hours earlier was for Missed 3 point shots 0-24 or something like that.  The reason they went into OT against Auburn.

[ErickJD08]

Apparently, some people don't know what it means when we say "left the cupboard bare".  The term really refers to the future.  We have four good players on our team.  That is it and three of them will be gone next year.  We don't have guys coming down the pipes.  There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that gives expectations of a successful season next year then some freshmen coming in.  THAT IS NOT GOOD.  The freshmen give us hope that something good can happen and I think good things can happen.  I am happy with Buzz as long as he can keep up recruiting.  I am happy he stresses balance.

This year is going to be rough because I think we all (including myself) had pretty high expectations for the season.  I think reality set in for alot of us that MU can lose any given night.  Live and die by the jumper.  That is not the trait of a good team.

[ATWizJr]

Maybe a bad night on "D".

Maybe a bad shooting night. 

Maybe no/wrong adjustments.

Certainly - an ominous loss and possibly a foretelling of the future.

[JSwarriors08]

I agree with everything MUBasketball said.  I'm sorry, but I'm not that out of sorts about this loss.  Losses can be a constructive step in preparing for a really tough schedule.  Better to play with something to prove than to enter conference play with an inflated ego.  We'll see how it goes.  It's gonna be a long, hard ride (that's what she said), but I think we will step up our game as the year progresses.  It's always good to play your best basketball at the end of the year.

[ATWizJr]

JS- hope you are right but as Blondie said, Dreamin' is free."  We'll see.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Apparently, some people don't know what it means when we say "left the cupboard bare".  The term really refers to the future.  We have four good players on our team.  That is it and three of them will be gone next year.  We don't have guys coming down the pipes.  There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that gives expectations of a successful season next year then some freshmen coming in.  THAT IS NOT GOOD.  The freshmen give us hope that something good can happen and I think good things can happen.  I am happy with Buzz as long as he can keep up recruiting.  I am happy he stresses balance.

This year is going to be rough because I think we all (including myself) had pretty high expectations for the season.  I think reality set in for alot of us that MU can lose any given night.  Live and die by the jumper.  That is not the trait of a good team.

That is correct, but your discounting the fact that we also lost two kids because the coach left and they didn't want to play for Buzz.  Those kids come if Crean is still here.  Trevor was also here after Crean left but bolted after Buzz was named coach.  Go figure.  Just the way it goes.  This is why next year when people around here keep saying things are going to be great, I'm sorry...I don't buy it.  Freshmen rarely take you anywhere.  They will be talented but very young next year.  This is the last NCAA year in my mind for quite some time.

I still think this is a NCAA team.  However, will stick with my 20 win prediction for the reasons I saw last night.  Loss of Barro, despite him being skewered here daily, will be bigger then people think.  Loss of Trevor will also be big.  New coach, new system, how will he do?  Big East best conference potentially ever.  Lack of depth at the bigs.  As a result, 20 wins and a .500 record in the conference were my picks and nothing has suggested to me yet that those are out of line.

Next year, NIT.  Too young, too inexperienced.

[Markusquette]

Sure we won't be as good next year, but will will actually have 3 big guys (if healthy) as well as a lot of tall wing players.  Just having more height next year will help and I think we will surprise people with our new guys.  This is very tentative but I'm highly optimistic and hopeful for another successful season next year.  Successful meaning doing well based on our team, not up to par with Wade era or present time.

[mviale]

I have the agree with the original post subject line. This board has crean haters, buzz doubters and a group of people that doubt the 3 amigos every year. I believe these contingents outweigh the optimists on the board.  MU laid an egg on a Holiday weekend.  Not so shocking considering it is November 30th.  Dayton also had a career night from a JC player.

We will be fine come January.