Steph Curry

[wadesworld]

Was 2-3 years ago not "today's style" of basketball? Or do you take "today" literally?

San Antonio went 67-15 this season (going at about 85-90%), had the #1 defense and their Pythagorean W-L was 2 games better than the Warriors'. Only 6 teams in history have won more than 67 games. The Spurs' regular season was just a hair below Golden State's and no one would be all that surprised if SA beat GS in the conf finals.

Last season and this regular season, GS was the best, but no one has been better than SA since the NBA's defensive rules changed and 3pt attempts increased. I would define that time period as "today's game." Perhaps you only look back 12-18 months.

I would be very surprised if the Spurs beat the Warriors in the Conference Finals.  This year's Spurs team is quite possibly Pop's best team, and probably the 2nd best team of this generation, maybe a top 10 team ever?  Without a doubt a top 25 team ever...and they aren't even close to what the Warriors are.

[JWags85]

I would be very surprised if the Spurs beat the Warriors in the Conference Finals.  This year's Spurs team is quite possibly Pop's best team, and probably the 2nd best team of this generation, maybe a top 10 team ever?  Without a doubt a top 25 team ever...and they aren't even close to what the Warriors are.

The way the Warriors won on Sunday night is what has to worry Spurs fans.  At home, they tried to slow the Warriors down and make it a grind it out defensive game...and the Warriors beat them handily doing just that.

[GooooMarquette]

Was 2-3 years ago not "today's style" of basketball? Or do you take "today" literally?

San Antonio went 67-15 this season (going at about 85-90%), had the #1 defense and their Pythagorean W-L was 2 games better than the Warriors'. Only 6 teams in history have won more than 67 games. The Spurs' regular season was just a hair below Golden State's and no one would be all that surprised if SA beat GS in the conf finals.

Last season and this regular season, GS was the best, but no one has been better than SA since the NBA's defensive rules changed and 3pt attempts increased. I would define that time period as "today's game." Perhaps you only look back 12-18 months.

I'm talking about current events, not history.  And right now, GS is the best team. 

[wadesworld]

I'm talking about current events, not history.  And right now, GS is the best team.

There can be a team in an era/generation of basketball that isn't the current best team in that era/generation.  But the best team of this generation/era is the Warriors, and it's not even close to be honest.  65 wins and a title last year, followed up by 73 wins this year.  Absurd.  I'd expect they win the title this year.

But what could happen is 3 years from now they could fall back to 3rd in the West and lose in the 2nd round.  That doesn't make whoever wins the West/NBA title in 3 years the best team of the era/generation/brand of basketball.

[WarriorFan]

This is a team - much like the 95-96 bulls - that we'll tell our kids and grandkids about.  My kids always want me to tell them about the time I saw Michael Jordan play - which by the way was an exhibition / glorified pick-up game in Milwaukee during which he amazed everyone while unconstrained by the proprieties of the NBA and duties to teammates.  These Warriors will be the subject of many such stories. 

Who would win vs. the earlier Bulls... with 90's rules and officiating the Bulls would win.  With today's rules and officiating the Warriors would win.  I would say that those Bulls would probably still win 55+ games in Today's NBA because they were one of the first teams spacing and using 3's to open up the middle and did it better than than half the teams trying it today. 

[brandx]

This is a team - much like the 95-96 bulls - that we'll tell our kids and grandkids about.  My kids always want me to tell them about the time I saw Michael Jordan play - which by the way was an exhibition / glorified pick-up game in Milwaukee during which he amazed everyone while unconstrained by the proprieties of the NBA and duties to teammates.  These Warriors will be the subject of many such stories. 

Who would win vs. the earlier Bulls... with 90's rules and officiating the Bulls would win.  With today's rules and officiating the Warriors would win.  I would say that those Bulls would probably still win 55+ games in Today's NBA because they were one of the first teams spacing and using 3's to open up the middle and did it better than than half the teams trying it today.

Curry is like only two other players in my lifetime watching the NBA in that you watch them all the time when they are on the floor. even when they don't have the ball. The other two, by the way, were MJ and Doctor J. And that goes back to watching Russell and Wilt as a kid.

Connie Hawkins may have been another had he played in the NBA at a young age. Iverson and Magic were electric  but you weren't always watching them off the ball.

[WarriorFan]

This is a team - much like the 95-96 bulls - that we'll tell our kids and grandkids about.  My kids always want me to tell them about the time I saw Michael Jordan play - which by the way was an exhibition / glorified pick-up game in Milwaukee during which he amazed everyone while unconstrained by the proprieties of the NBA and duties to teammates.  These Warriors will be the subject of many such stories. 

Who would win vs. the earlier Bulls... with 90's rules and officiating the Bulls would win.  With today's rules and officiating the Warriors would win.  I would say that those Bulls would probably still win 55+ games in Today's NBA because they were one of the first teams spacing and using 3's to open up the middle and did it better than than half the teams trying it today.

I even found the details of the game... August 17, 1988.  Terry Cummings Charity game for Milwaukee youth.  Jordan had 50 in a 181 - 178 victory. 

[GooooMarquette]

Curry is like only two other players in my lifetime watching the NBA in that you watch them all the time when they are on the floor. even when they don't have the ball. The other two, by the way, were MJ and Doctor J. And that goes back to watching Russell and Wilt as a kid.

Good point, and I agree.  As good as his teammates have been, it's hard to take your eyes off Curry because you might miss a spectacular play.

[MerrittsMustache]

I would be very surprised if the Spurs beat the Warriors in the Conference Finals.  This year's Spurs team is quite possibly Pop's best team, and probably the 2nd best team of this generation, maybe a top 10 team ever?  Without a doubt a top 25 team ever...and they aren't even close to what the Warriors are.

A lot of people (not singling you out, wades) are really selling the Spurs short this season. The Warriors are an all-time team but statistically, the Spurs are right there with them.

The 67-15 Spurs had a Pythagorean W-L of 67-15. The Warriors was 65-17, which basically means GS had a great deal of luck involved in winning 73 games (for perspective, the 95-96 Bulls Pyth W-L was 70-12). If you go by ESPN's Expected Wins, SA had 70 and GS 68.

Metrics...
SA was 1st in Pth W-L, GS was 2nd
SA was 1st in Expected Wins, GS was 2nd
SA was 1st in DRat, GS was 5th
SA was 1st in Def eFG%, GS was 2nd
GS was 1st in ORat, SA was 4th
GS was 1st in eFG%, SA was 2nd
GS was 1st in MOV, SA was 2nd
GS was 1st in SRS, SA was 2nd

Sure, the Warriors are a lot more fun to watch but, statistically speaking, the Spurs are right there with them in terms of dominance.

[wadesworld]

A lot of people (not singling you out, wades) are really selling the Spurs short this season. The Warriors are an all-time team but statistically, the Spurs are right there with them.

The 67-15 Spurs had a Pythagorean W-L of 67-15. The Warriors was 65-17, which basically means GS had a great deal of luck involved in winning 73 games (for perspective, the 95-96 Bulls Pyth W-L was 70-12). If you go by ESPN's Expected Wins, SA had 70 and GS 68.

Metrics...
SA was 1st in Pth W-L, GS was 2nd
SA was 1st in Expected Wins, GS was 2nd
SA was 1st in DRat, GS was 5th
SA was 1st in Def eFG%, GS was 2nd
GS was 1st in ORat, SA was 4th
GS was 1st in eFG%, SA was 2nd
GS was 1st in MOV, SA was 2nd
GS was 1st in SRS, SA was 2nd

Sure, the Warriors are a lot more fun to watch but, statistically speaking, the Spurs are right there with them in terms of dominance.

I don't get into the advanced statistics of overall teams to determine how good (or bad) a whole team may be, so maybe the Spurs are better than the Warriors.  But I do know that the Warriors went 3-1 against the Spurs in the regular season, and 2 of the wins were never really close.

Like I said, there's no doubt in my mind that the Spurs are a top 25 team ever, and in my opinion they're a top 10 team ever.  The best that Pop has had, and he's obviously had some great teams.

Which further validates the Warriors, in my opinion.  Call it luck or whatever you want, but finishing 6 games ahead of the field, when there's a team that went 67-15 included in that "field," is absurd.

[GooooMarquette]

I don't get into the advanced statistics of overall teams to determine how good (or bad) a whole team may be, so maybe the Spurs are better than the Warriors.  But I do know that the Warriors went 3-1 against the Spurs in the regular season, and 2 of the wins were never really close.

Like I said, there's no doubt in my mind that the Spurs are a top 25 team ever, and in my opinion they're a top 10 team ever.  The best that Pop has had, and he's obviously had some great teams.

Which further validates the Warriors, in my opinion.  Call it luck or whatever you want, but finishing 6 games ahead of the field, when there's a team that went 67-15 included in that "field," is absurd.

Agreed.  Advanced stats and "expected" wins are nice...but when the two teams took the court, GS was the better team.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Agreed.  Advanced stats and "expected" wins are nice...but when the two teams took the court, GS was the better team.

Maybe, however in that last game Khwai had one of his worst shooting performances ever and Timmy didn't play. Sure Steph is far and away the best player in the NBA right now but let's not pretend the Spurs don't have a chance.

[MerrittsMustache]

Agreed.  Advanced stats and "expected" wins are nice...but when the two teams took the court, GS was the better team.

Duncan played all of 27 minutes against GS. Iguodala missed one of the games for GS. The results of head-to-head regular season games don't matter much once the postseason starts. They're basically scrimmages.

[wadesworld]

Maybe, however in that last game Khwai had one of his worst shooting performances ever and Timmy didn't play. Sure Steph is far and away the best player in the NBA right now but let's not pretend the Spurs don't have a chance.

Duncan played all of 27 minutes against GS. Iguodala missed one of the games for GS. The results of head-to-head regular season games don't matter much once the postseason starts. They're basically scrimmages.

This isn't your Tim Duncan of 15 years ago, or even 5 years ago.  The guy is about the 7th best player on the Spurs.

[brandx]

This isn't your Tim Duncan of 15 years ago, or even 5 years ago.  The guy is about the 7th best player on the Spurs.

Also not the same Tony Parker of 5 years ago and that really affects the team.

A great team, but I don't think I put it in the top 10 of all time - just because of the age of Duncan, Parker, and Ginobli.

[MerrittsMustache]

This isn't your Tim Duncan of 15 years ago, or even 5 years ago.  The guy is about the 7th best player on the Spurs.

Which speaks to their depth 

It's Leonard and Aldridge's team now but Manu, Duncan, Parker, West and even Mills or Green are capable of having big games.

[GooooMarquette]

Which speaks to their depth 

It's Leonard and Aldridge's team now but Manu, Duncan, Parker, West and even Mills or Green are capable of having big games.

Which speaks to the irrelevance of your comment about how few minutes Duncan played against GS in the regular season.

[MerrittsMustache]

Which speaks to the irrelevance of your comment about how few minutes Duncan played against GS in the regular season.

Not really. Like I said, Duncan is still capable of having big games, although he's basically resting up during the regular season. I also mentioned that the 2015 Finals MVP missed the game for GS. Was that irrelevant too? He's not their best player.

My point is that the regular season meetings mean nothing come postseason.

[Herman Cain]

Curry and Golden State are a very fun team to watch and certainly have been good last year and this year. There have been many teams in history that have had some good runs like this. The Bill Walton Blazers with Maurice Lucas are one that comes to mind. Unfortunately Walton got hurt at the end of the second good season and that was the end of that. But they were incredible when Walton was healthy and I believe that team would be a very interesting match up against today's Golden State.

[MU82]

Golden State is an all-time great basketball team. Are they better than the mid-90s Bulls? No, but that's not a knock against them. No one was.

The Bulls played the 90s style of basketball better than anyone else, had the greatest player of all time on their roster, along with another top 20 all-time player and they were one of the best defensive teams ever.

The Warriors play today's style of basketball better than just about anyone else and have one of the greatest shooters of all time (if not THE greatest) on their roster. They play outstanding TEAM basketball. They led the league in assists by over 3 per game!

Both teams are all-time great teams. It's not insulting to say that the Bulls were better and it doesn't downgrade what GS has accomplished. It's remarkable and they're a lot of fun to watch.

I also believe the Bulls were better, mainly because they had Jordan (duh) and I agree the Warriors are great and fun to watch.

My only real beef with what you wrote here is that I do not believe the Bulls had "another top-20 all-time player." I'm pretty sure if you and I sat down and talked it out for 10 minutes, we could agree on at least 30 better than Pippen.

As for a couple things mentioned by other posters ...

I believe Curry would have found a way to be great in the '90s. He's a lot tougher than most people think.

I also don't think it's a slam dunk that Curry is "by far" today's best player. That LeBron kid is pretty good, I hear. He can't shoot like Curry, of course, but then again Curry can't race from 35 feet behind an opponent, leap and block a shot. They are 1 and 1A, with the edge to Curry because of team accomplishments, style points, "clutch-a-bility," and soon-to-be two-time MVP hardware. All IMHO, of course.

[GooooMarquette]

Looking like the Spurs might not even make it to a matchup with the Warriors.

[GGGG]

Ginobili and Duncan are old.  Parker is still good but declining.  Aldrich and Leonard are their stars right now, but no role players are stepping up.

That being said, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Spurs win on Thursday.

[wadesworld]

Looking like the Spurs might not even make it to a matchup with the Warriors.

Yup. Now we'll get to hear how "lucky" the Warriors were to "avoid" the Spurs again and have the Clippers depleted by injury for another year. Awesome.

I also see TMac claiming Curry winning MVP proves the NBA is watered down. Hilarious. The "old" guys claiming everything was better when they were in their prime is just tired. I'm pretty sure the Spurs played the same way with just as much talent when they were first winning Titles in that same era as they do now.

[MU82]

That OT performance by Curry - and really, the whole second half of Monday's game - is one of the great individual performances I've seen. If you haven't seen it, especially the OT ... find it and watch it.

For that matter, the entire game was extremely entertaining sports theater.

Those who claim to be basketball fans but don't like the NBA playoffs ... I have to wonder if they really are basketball fans at all. There has been some tremendous stuff. Thunder-Spurs Game 5 was just the latest fantastic show.

[tower912]

I'm glad this thread was hoopalooped.     I was watching games the other night and trying to remember anybody from the 80's and 90's who routinely shot pull up 3's off of the dribble.   Isaiah Thomas is the only one who comes to mind and he only did it when he was in the zone.   Everybody else I remember was catch-and-shoot, usually 3 inches behind the line.    Today, we have shooters who are starting their move 40 feet from the basket and pulling up to shoot 3's just inside 30.   Nearly indefensible when the shooter gets hot.