NFC North/NFL Thread 2016-17

[🏀]

I'm surprised the Pack didn't go after Logan Ryan or Prince Amukamara, especially Prince. The deal he signed with the Bears was a great below market deal, with zero risk.

Yes

[MerrittsMustache]

Interesting switch at TE.  Want to know the relative contracts.  Bennett is big time.

True, Bennett is big time but even with all his ability there's a reason he's joining his fifth team.

[brandx]

Going into last season the DBs looked like they were going to be the strength of the defense by a wide margin. Losing your top 3 corners for significant time will take a solid group and make them bad. Not much you can do in the middle of the season to fix it. There was nothing criminal about it unless someone told him what the future was.

About 30 teams would take Ted in a heartbeat over what they have.

They had Shields. No one else had proven themselves. Shields was lost at the beginning of the season. Ted did nothing.

Any average GM can make the playoffs with Aaron at QB. A good GM looks at his weaknesses and goes and gets Gilmore and Cooks.

[jsglow]

I do anticipate that TT will pursue some DBs in the second FA wave.  He's actually done a good job with less than splashy signings like Guion and Cook.  There's some talk that he's talking to House about a return.

[hairy worthen]

They had Shields. No one else had proven themselves. Shields was lost at the beginning of the season. Ted did nothing.

Any average GM can make the playoffs with Aaron at QB. A good GM looks at his weaknesses and goes and gets Gilmore and Cooks.

No. At the start of last season the consensus was the secondary was the strength of the team. Randall was a first round pick and had a good rookie season, no reason to think he wouldn't continue to progress. Rollins was improving throughout his rookie season. Injuries played a part in their decline. Thats not on Ted. We will see how they do in 2017. TT  is not an average gm. Top 3 in the league. Take a look around at all the TT disciples running successful  teams , that doesn't happen if you are average

[hairy worthen]

You also thought Cook was going to be a negative for the Packers and he was probably the most important offensive weapon outside of Rodgers last year.

Dish an awesome poster on nfl, but I would take what he says about the packers with a grain of salt. He had the packers in the grave and throwing dirt on them at mid season. Said Rodgers was washed up and should move on. (paraphrasing). Probably more wishful thinking than perceptive analysis.

[jsglow]

No. At the start of last season the consensus was the secondary was the strength of the team. Randall was a first round pick and had a good rookie season, no reason to think he wouldn't continue to progress. Rollins was improving throughout his rookie season. Injuries played a part in their decline. Thats not on Ted. We will see how they do in 2017. TT  is not an average gm. Top 3 in the league. Take a look around at all the TT disciples running successful  teams , that doesn't happen if you are average

Totally accurate.  DB was supposed to be a genuine strength of the team in August.  Everyone was worried about the front 7 following BJ's surprise retirement and the question mark at inside backer.  I have no doubt that reinforcements will be on the way.

The only surprise so far was Hyde.  But man Buffalo gave him a big contract. (5, $30, $14 gty.)  I think they end up regretting that.

TT simply refuses to panic.  Ever.  That's one important reason why the Packers are 'right there' every year.

And back to the Cook negotiation for a second.  His agent erroneously believed that TT had no other option and priced his client out of the market.  Wrong.  Privately I'll bet Jared is really pissed.

[DegenerateDish]

Dish an awesome poster on nfl, but I would take what he says about the packers with a grain of salt. He had the packers in the grave and throwing dirt on them at mid season. Said Rodgers was washed up and should move on. (paraphrasing). Probably more wishful thinking than perceptive analysis.

I agree with all of this. My blue and orange glasses need new lenses however.

[hairy worthen]

Dish

Ha.  As soon as I replace my green and gold lenses. Your packer posts are still better than 95% of the posts on here

[brandx]

I do anticipate that TT will pursue some DBs in the second FA wave.  He's actually done a good job with less than splashy signings like Guion and Cook.  There's some talk that he's talking to House about a return.

A guy who couldn't make it on a Jacksonville defense that gave up more points than GB

No thanks - we already have 3 or 4 guys who are the same as House.

[brandx]

No. At the start of last season the consensus was the secondary was the strength of the team. Randall was a first round pick and had a good rookie season, no reason to think he wouldn't continue to progress. Rollins was improving throughout his rookie season. Injuries played a part in their decline. Thats not on Ted. We will see how they do in 2017. TT  is not an average gm. Top 3 in the league. Take a look around at all the TT disciples running successful  teams , that doesn't happen if you are average

It is not a strength of the team when 2 of the top 3 CBs are 2nd year guys who have not proven themselves.

As far as TT disciples? I would rank them all ahead of TT. Mackenzie, Schneider, and Dorsey all took terrible team and turned them into winners. TT took a winner with two of the greatest QBs who ever played and parlayed it into one SB appearance in 12 years. That is inexcusable and it is on Ted.

Ted may have the reputation, but I will go by his track record.

[GGGG]

It is not a strength of the team when 2 of the top 3 CBs are 2nd year guys who have not proven themselves.

As far as TT disciples? I would rank them all ahead of TT. Mackenzie, Schneider, and Dorsey all took terrible team and turned them into winners. TT took a winner with two of the greatest QBs who ever played and parlayed it into one SB appearance in 12 years. That is inexcusable and it is on Ted.

Ted may have the reputation, but I will go by his track record.

They have made the conference championship three other times, one of which went to overtime, one they sh*t the bed and the other they were blown out. 

The last one may be on Ted because they didn't have adequate depth at corner, but it's hard to blame him for all times they have fell short.  Ron Wolf is in the HOF and only won one Super Bowl. 

[hairy worthen]

It is not a strength of the team when 2 of the top 3 CBs are 2nd year guys who have not proven themselves.

As far as TT disciples? I would rank them all ahead of TT. Mackenzie, Schneider, and Dorsey all took terrible team and turned them into winners. TT took a winner with two of the greatest QBs who ever played and parlayed it into one SB appearance in 12 years. That is inexcusable and it is on Ted.

Ted may have the reputation, but I will go by his track record.

Your hindsight is 20/20. Going into the season those corners were proven and had high expectations. It's not TT's fault Randall had groin surgery.

[brandx]

Your hindsight is 20/20. Going into the season those corners were proven and had high expectations. It's not TT's fault Randall had groin surgery.

My eyesight is on;y 20/30, but my hindsight is excellent.

We can only hope that Randall was playing hurt when he returned, cuz it doesn't get any worse that what he did.

[brandx]

 

The last one may be on Ted because they didn't have adequate depth at corner, but it's hard to blame him for all times they have fell short.  Ron Wolf is in the HOF and only won one Super Bowl.

But like TT's proteges, Wolf took an awful team with no QB and turned it into one of the best franchises in the league. TT inherited a winning franchise. Wolff, McKenzie, Dorsey, and Scneider did not.

TT is not willing to make a trade to help his team; the other four have done what is necessary.

[GB Warrior]

They have made the conference championship three other times, one of which went to overtime, one they sh*t the bed and the other they were blown out. 

The last one may be on Ted because they didn't have adequate depth at corner, but it's hard to blame him for all times they have fell short.  Ron Wolf is in the HOF and only won one Super Bowl.

In any single year, Ted's conservative approach may be the reason we miss the Super Bowl. But it's that approach that has put us in contention every single year where we have never had to purge cap to keep the people that matter most.

He has made mistakes. We may have made the big game with Heyward on an economy contract this year. But you can't project injuries and the Packers have been on the short end of the stick.

We should continue this approach for a couple more years, but eventually, I think we need to transition to the Elway method with Manning. At that point, we know that Rodgers' cap hit won't be hanging around much longer.

When we reach that part of Rodgers career, Ted will be retired and replaced by someone like Eliot Wolf who likely thinks much more like Elway, Schneider or his own father.

Winning a Super Bowl is partially luck in any given year,  but the success TT has enjoyed this past decade is second to only the best GM/Coach in NFL history.

In unrelated news, a potentially great "flyer" pickup in Lance Kendrick. Had a pretty decent year with a bunch of amateurs throwing to him. We'll see where the numbers come in. No impact to compensatory picks because he was released.

[GGGG]

 

But like TT's proteges, Wolf took an awful team with no QB and turned it into one of the best franchises in the league. TT inherited a winning franchise. Wolff, McKenzie, Dorsey, and Scneider did not.

TT is not willing to make a trade to help his team; the other four have done what is necessary.

I think TT should be more aggressive in free agency too.  But he is damn good.  And  I don't think his success should be penalized because he inherited a quality team.  The team that won Super Bowl 45 wasn't the team he inherited.

[GB Warrior]

I think TT should be more aggressive in free agency too.  But he is damn good.  And  I don't think his success should be penalized because he inherited a quality team.  The team that won Super Bowl 45 wasn't the team he inherited.

In fact, the team he inherited wasn't Ron Wolf's or winning. It was Sherman's, and it was plagued with aging veterans, bad FA deals and Sherman's bad habit of consistently trading up in the draft that is always going to be a bit of a crapshoot.

In other words, TT turned this roster over to start a new generation of Packer football

[brandx]

In any single year, Ted's conservative approach may be the reason we miss the Super Bowl. But it's that approach that has put us in contention every single year where we have never had to purge cap to keep the people that matter most.

Very well put. I agree completely.

The goal shouldn't be to keep getting close over and over again. A great GM will make moves that are the difference between being in contention and getting to the SB.

[MUBurrow]

The goal shouldn't be to keep getting close over and over again. A great GM will make moves that are the difference between being in contention and getting to the SB.

I just don't think that's fair or an accurate description of what is within a GM's power. All any GM can do is put a team together that is capable of winning a championship. Actually doing it is a combo of coaching and luck. The 2014 packers should have been a super bowl team, the Falcons should have won it all, etc. Consistent competitiveness is a far, far better indicator of a GM's success than the outcome of the last game.

The Billy Beane "I don't watch the games" line from Moneyball is hokey and cliche, but accurately captures the realistic purview of a GM.

[DegenerateDish]

Quick random football thoughts as I sit at a Sonic waiting for food on a Saturday night...

-Dion Sims $10 mil guaranteed makes little sense to me for where the Bears are at

-Indifferent on Glennon, I'd have brought back Hoyer, but I get why they felt they had to do what they did (not that I agree with it)

-Pats gave up way too much for a one year rental on Cooks. I don't get why they didn't just go after Pryor, who signed a below market deal

-Draft should be second week of April

[MU82]

Matt Kalil to play LT, Munnerlin to play nickel back, Peppers to be situational rusher and a couple of smaller moves, too.

Digging my Panthers' offseason so far!

Last year was a fluke after Panthers had won previous 3 division titles, and we all know the Falcons aren't as good as they looked down the stretch last season.

[jsglow]

I think many of us have been frustrated by TT's unwillingness to use free agency.  But I wonder if his actions so far this year suggest an evolution of his historic strategy.  Having Bennett on the other phone line at the exact same moment as Cook's agent was trying to get HOF money was brilliant.  And I have no problem with his avoiding the 'splash' FAs in the first week.  Let's see how he addresses some holes like CB in the next 3-4 weeks.

[brandx]

I think many of us have been frustrated by TT's unwillingness to use free agency.  But I wonder if his actions so far this year suggest an evolution of his historic strategy.  Having Bennett on the other phone line at the exact same moment as Cook's agent was trying to get HOF money was brilliant.  And I have no problem with his avoiding the 'splash' FAs in the first week.  Let's see how he addresses some holes like CB in the next 3-4 weeks.

Despite what my comments sound like, I actually agree with most of what you say. If you look at most FAs that sign for big money, the vast majority never live up to their contract. But, historically, Ted is unwilling to sign almost anyone or make a trade despite how desperate the team has become -(DBs last year).

[Sir Lawrence]

Lions pick up Lang.  Spending a lot to protect Stafford.