New tier of Division 1 for NIL

[Coleman]

We are only a step away from players simply being direct-paid employees of the schools and not being students at all. Has been that way at some schools for quite a while, but now it will likely become standard operating procedure. Schools just recruit and hire players who do not even enroll in classes. It may sound silly but it will happen in the near future.

Again, lots of students are already employees of schools. You can also still be a student. It is not mutually exclusive. Have you ever heard of a TA?

[Coleman]

That's a Marquette thing. Not a very common practice. Most offer discounted tuition.

Anecdotal but I got a job offer from Tulane and they offered it as well, after you had worked there for 5 years (I turned down the job).

[Dr. Blackheart]

Again, lots of students are already employees of schools. You can also still be a student. It is not mutually exclusive. Have you ever heard of a TA?

Chili threw slop at the SAGA wagon train line decades ago.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Lots of students are on universities' direct payrolls. Kids who get full ride academic scholarships often get stipends or work study jobs that come with income. I'm not sure why athletes can't have the same benefits many regular students are entitled to?

In grad school I got a full tuition scholarship that came with a $20k a year stipend. Why can't athletes, who bring in millions for the university, get the same opportunity?

SAs becoming employees will mean hundreds of schools shuttering their athletics programs all together and more shuttering specific programs.  SAs becoming employees is a lose lose proposition, neither side as a whole benefits.  Fortunately,  i think this is why it won't happen.

There were inequities in the system.  I think NIL for the most part addresses those inequities. Tweak NIL to help with competetive balance, sure. But if you bend the system too much,  it will break and everyone will suffer,  SAs more than universities

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

My daughter was accepted to every 4 year school she applied to. Like some students she was not sure what she wanted to do or major in. So she decided to go to our local community college for 2 years which at the time cost us 3000, not the 10k for the state school or 16k for the private schools she was accepted at. We paid only 2 years of full tuition for her BA/BS degree.

As it turned out an an adjunct professor at the community college helped my daughter find a job right after graduation working for the same company she was working at. You don't have to pay through the nose for a good/quality education.

I'm not exactly sure what this means relative to my comment, but yes, your daughter seems to have made a sound choice. 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Anecdotal but I got a job offer from Tulane and they offered it as well, after you had worked there for 5 years (I turned down the job).

I think it is way more common than TAMU realizes. Honestly it usually benefits the school. People will work for less than the going rate to have access to the educational benefits, they usually still pay for room and board, and the marginal cost of adding them to a classroom and accessing other tuition-backed services is pretty small.

[rocky_warrior]

I think it is way more common than TAMU realizes. Honestly it usually benefits the school. People will work for less than the going rate to have access to the educational benefits, they usually still pay for room and board, and the marginal cost of adding them to a classroom and accessing other tuition-backed services is pretty small.

Probably more linked to smaller schools?  I know I had the opportunity when looking at colleges (because my mother worked at the local university), but chose to spend the big bucks on MU anyway.

https://cic.edu/networks/tuition-exchange-program/

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Probably more linked to smaller schools?  I know I had the opportunity when looking at colleges (because my mother worked at the local university), but chose to spend the big bucks on MU anyway.

https://cic.edu/networks/tuition-exchange-program/

A tuition exchange is a little different, but it's a similar concept.  Exchange programs may be limited to a certain type or number of students (depending on the school).

[rocky_warrior]

A tuition exchange is a little different, but it's a similar concept.  Exchange programs may be limited to a certain type or number of students (depending on the school).

Right, I guess my point in that, was that I had an opportunity to free tuition at her university for sure, and potentially at a bunch of others too.  Supporting your more widespread "free tuition" claim, and not just limited to Marquette or  small number of schools.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Right, I guess my point in that, was that I had an opportunity to free tuition at her university for sure, and potentially at a bunch of others too.  Supporting your more widespread "free tuition" claim, and not just limited to Marquette or  small number of schools.

Gotcha. I have worked at five institutions (3 private, 2 public), only one of which did not offer dependents either free or heavily discounted tuition. And that one was only because it was prevented from doing so by state law.

[Coleman]

Gotcha. I have worked at five institutions (3 private, 2 public), only one of which did not offer dependents either free or heavily discounted tuition. And that one was only because it was prevented from doing so by state law.

Yeah I could see this being more common at private schools than state schools, for sure.

[Boozemon Barro]

Make the football and men's basketball players employees. Those players should unionize. Institute a salary cap. All other sports should become club sports. That gets title 9 out of the equation.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Make the football and men's basketball players employees. Those players should unionize. Institute a salary cap. All other sports should become club sports. That gets title 9 out of the equation.

Title IX applies to club sports

[Boozemon Barro]

Title IX applies to club sports

Ok. Whatever drop in the bucket the universities spend on club sports can be equalized between men and women.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Oh and there are sport minimum requirements to be an NCAA D1 institution.

And not only that, but my guess is that Marquette actually makes money on many non-revenue sports. For instance, men's golf is limited to 4.5 athletic scholarships. There are 11 people on the roster. So that means 6.5 are paying some sort of tuition when you account for academic scholarships too.  I doubt the cost of running a golf team is all that much, so they are likely making some profit there.

[Boozemon Barro]

Oh and there are sport minimum requirements to be an NCAA D1 institution.

And not only that, but my guess is that Marquette actually makes money on many non-revenue sports. For instance, men's golf is limited to 4.5 athletic scholarships. There are 11 people on the roster. So that means 6.5 are paying some sort of tuition when you account for academic scholarships too.  I doubt the cost of running a golf team is all that much, so they are likely making some profit there.

You're wrong. First you need to apply the per student overhead cost to those students. Whatever margin is left over is easily wiped out by coaching salaries, equipment, travel, and course fees. There's a 0.00% chance Marquette or any other university is making money on D1 golf.

[rocket surgeon]

Chili threw slop at the SAGA wagon train line decades ago.

                         that's what inspired the young man to become the smokin aficionado he is today

[lawdog77]

Oh and there are sport minimum requirements to be an NCAA D1 institution.

And not only that, but my guess is that Marquette actually makes money on many non-revenue sports. For instance, men's golf is limited to 4.5 athletic scholarships. There are 11 people on the roster. So that means 6.5 are paying some sort of tuition when you account for academic scholarships too.  I doubt the cost of running a golf team is all that much, so they are likely making some profit there.

I'd take that bet. 6.5 are paying, 4.5 are part of the expense, so that leaves a net of 2. Say at 50K a year, that means MU made 100K. There's a lot more than 100K in expenses for the golf team.

Here's a blurb about the Top teams: All lost money

inancial data is available on all ten programs, except for Pepperdine. The highest revenue program was Oklahoma State at $566,536. The lowest revenue program was Arkansas at $46,205. The program with the highest expenses was Oklahoma State at $1,833,820. The program with the lowest expenses was North Carolina at $653,757. All programs lost money - Oklahoma State lost the most at $1,267,200.

 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

You're wrong. First you need to apply the per student overhead cost to those students. Whatever margin is left over is easily wiped out by coaching salaries, equipment, travel, and course fees. There's a 0.00% chance Marquette or any other university is making money on D1 golf.

I'd take that bet. 6.5 are paying, 4.5 are part of the expense, so that leaves a net of 2. Say at 50K a year, that means MU made 100K. There's a lot more than 100K in expenses for the golf team.

Here's a blurb about the Top teams: All lost money

inancial data is available on all ten programs, except for Pepperdine. The highest revenue program was Oklahoma State at $566,536. The lowest revenue program was Arkansas at $46,205. The program with the highest expenses was Oklahoma State at $1,833,820. The program with the lowest expenses was North Carolina at $653,757. All programs lost money - Oklahoma State lost the most at $1,267,200.

OK...I will lose that bet. Thanks for the information, although I am skeptical that Marquette is spending close to that amount.

But now let's do track and field.  There are 86 athletes on the men's and women's roster.  86 x $35,000 = $3,010,000.  30.6 scholarships x $35,000 = $1,071,000.  That's a different of nearly $2 million.  And even though that's a three season sport if you include cross country, there is no way that the costs exceed $2 million.

[Boozemon Barro]

OK...I will lose that bet. Thanks for the information.

But now let's do track and field.  There are 86 athletes on the men's and women's roster.  86 x $35,000 = $3,010,000.  30.6 scholarships x $35,000 = $1,071,000.  That's a different of nearly $2 million.  And even though that's a three season sport if you include cross country, there is no way that the costs exceed $2 million.

You're talking about gross margin. Apply the overhead costs of the university on a per student basis and they're for sure operating at a loss. The university isn't making 100% profit from a non athlete paying full tuition. That is where your logic is failing.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

You're talking about gross margin. Apply the overhead costs of the university on a per student basis and they're for sure operating at a loss. The university isn't making 100% profit from a non athlete paying full tuition. That is where your logic is failing.

If that's how you want to view it, then you can be right. Congrats.

[MUbiz]

OK...I will lose that bet. Thanks for the information, although I am skeptical that Marquette is spending close to that amount.

But now let's do track and field.  There are 86 athletes on the men's and women's roster.  86 x $35,000 = $3,010,000.  30.6 scholarships x $35,000 = $1,071,000.  That's a different of nearly $2 million.  And even though that's a three season sport if you include cross country, there is no way that the costs exceed $2 million.

This is not MU, but track and field operates at a massive loss around the country: https://www.thesportsexaminer.com/lane-one-study-shows-u-s-colleges-spent-almost-1-billion-on-track-with-more-than-25000-athletes-on-scholarship/

[Boozemon Barro]

If that's how you want to view it, then you can be right. Congrats.

Ok. You can view it where all university employees and any other operating expenses are free and then you can be right.

[muwarrior69]

I'm not exactly sure what this means relative to my comment, but yes, your daughter seems to have made a sound choice.

You said the cost of a higher education is determined by what the student is willing to pay. Even with all the financial assistance the cost of an equivalent Marquette Education can be found for a lot less elsewhere.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Ok. You can view it where all university employees and any other operating expenses are free and then you can be right.