Oso planning to go pro
Mike, I'd like to believe you were better than weak trolls that were barely amusing the first time, but I guess I'm wrong. Pander to low hanging fruit i suppose.Chapman and Arenado win again at 3B. Short of some absolutely transcendent young talent appearing or injury, hard to see anyone else winning GGs at 3rd over the next 4-5 years.
Ryan M. Spaeder@theaceofspaederTwo ballplayers who will be on the Hall of Fame Ballot:Derek Jeter (1st):.310/.377/.44072.4 rWAR | 73.0 fWAR115 OPS+119 wRC+.360 wOBA5 Gold Gloves (-243.3 DRS)Larry Walker (10th):.313/.400./56572.7 rWAR | 68.7 fWAR141 OPS+140 wRC+.412 wOBA7 Gold Gloves (93.9 DRS)
So, I think Walker should get in, but this comparison is ridiculous. In what world are a SS, and a corner OF who played 10 seasons in Colorado legitimate comps? Also only showing the ratios is only part of the picture. I believe that Jeter was the youngest player ever to reach 3000 hits.
It just came on my Twitter feed, and I thought it was interesting. I think Jeter is a HOF because he's extremely famous, and that is what the "Hall is of."For the sake of argument, Jeter is the 4th youngest to get to 3k, (two weeks older than Yount was; 8 days younger than Pete Rose was) and OPS+ is supposed to factor in the ballpark, (the Rockies have been around for 25 years now; somebody's going to have to make it in).
The fact that Jeter played in NY and is "extremely famous" no doubt helps him.But he also had outstanding career stats, especially for a shortstop. He finished in the top 10 in MVP voting 8 times. And he was an instrumental contributor to 5 championship teams.A no-brainer.If you feel that Larry Walker also deserves HoF status, that's cool. A strong argument certainly could be made for him. But it doesn't really help his case to compare him to Jeter IMHO.
Just my opinion, but Walker would already be in the HoF if he had never played in Colorado.First 5 years of careers?Jeter 23.5 WARWalker 22.2 WAR as an Expo (no Coors inflated stats)Yankee stadium is also a better hitters park than Olympic stadium in Montreal.Walker was an outstanding defender his entire career. Jeter was a bad defender the latter half of his career. Playing in Coors has kept voters from electing Walker.
That could be true.
Just my opinion. Baseball is the most fun of any sport to argue about due to its long history and myriad of stats.
Walker played parts of 17 seasons in the bigs. Only 4 times did he play more than 140 games. Old stats, newer “advanced” stats, whatever. You need to be an everyday player more than 4 times in your career to make it into the HOF.
The only time Top 10 MVP finishes are discussed is when the player never won the award.
He had 6 more seasons with at least 130 games.Should we kick Koufax out of the HoF. He only had 4 seasons with 28 or more starts.
The only time Top 10 MVP finishes are discussed is when the player never won the award. Larry Walker was an actual MVP in 1997.
I didn’t mean to compare Walker to Koufax. Sandy was surely the greatest pitcher that I ever saw. I was just making a point. Incidentally, all those complainers about “soft” pitchers of today only need to look at Koufax / Drysdale to see what happens when pitchers are abused.
1 time MVP is a ticket to the HOF? Someone should tell Dale Murphy.
Of course not, (unless they want to open up a "Justin Morneau Wing" of Cooperstown).Again, I absolutely think Jeter is a HOfer. However, I disagree with the idea he is head-and-shoulders above Walker. Merely pointing out Jeter was never deemed the best player in the league, (and Walker was once).
Jeter is the most overrated “great” player of my lifetime, IMO. A really good player who never had serious injury and played for the most iconic team in the biggest market during their best stretch since the 50s, which made him iconic. He doesn’t win a single Silver Slugger if A Rod doesn’t come to the Yankees and move positions, IMO. He hit for gold average but not much else. There is also a good chance that he’s the only SS (besides A Rod) of that late 90s-2000s era to make the HOF, especially from the AL. Just wasn’t a lot of transcendent talent at the position during the time, which made him elevate in comparisons. If Jeter has his career (stats, not rings) for the Royals or the Padres, it’s a diff narrative IMO
OF course it is a different narrative, but he is still a first ballot HOFer. He is 6th all time in hits. 6th. In baseball history. This is a silly discussion. Only 5 guys in history have more hits and people think he is only good becuase he was a Yankee? What planet is this. The 5 guys with more hits are Rose, Cobb, Aaron, Musial and Speaker. If anything the stupid Yankee narrative makes people overlook what a tremendous hitter he was. Over a 20 year career he averaged more than 200 hits per 162. And he hit some HRs, and drove in runs, and stole bases, and walked and hit doubles. He was a great hitter, and a very complete offensive player at the most important defensive position in the game.
I didn't mean to start anything. I actually really like Derek Jeter.
Where did I ever say he was only good cause he was a Yankee? Or that he wasn't a HOF player? Paul Molitor has 100ish less hits than him, but had 400 less ABs. Also hit 50 more doubles and 50 more triples over his career and stole way more bases. Of course Molitor is a first ballot HOF as well, but he's not talked about in the hust tones Jeter is.And you wanna talk defense? Look up Jeter in any advanced metric for defense and he ranged from average to pretty bad. His UZR and Defensive WAR are terrible, even for a SS. He won Gold Gloves cause he was the shortstop for the mighty Yankees and cause he wasn't a habitual ground ball booter. But his range and arm were always mediocre.