Epic Choke Job by the B14

[MuggsyB]

How in the world did Michigan lose that E8 game??  This will go down as the most embarrassing performance by a conference, after all their hype, in NCAA tourney history.  The streak is still alive!!  21 yrs and counting?

[MU82]

Yeah, but Kenpom says they’re the best, so I don’t know why they even had to play any games.

[CountryRoads]

Just all media hype. They seemed to be just average against other P6 conferences in the very few non-conference games played this year. I didn’t buy the hype and not surprised they all lost early.

[MuggsyB]

I don't want to hear the Livers excuse either.  This was a stunning example of gaggery.  UCLA had two long stretches in the game where they literally couldn't score.  49 points??  Absolutely incredible. 

[MU82]

I blame Porter Moser!

[cheese ball chaser]

Sure, make fun of the Big 10 all you want if it makes you feel better about how mediocre Marquette was this past season.

[rocky_warrior]

Remember when the talking heads were debating if 4 B10 teams could make the FF?  hah.

(but I did think the B10 would do better)

[cheebs09]

Sure, make fun of the Big 10 all you want if it makes you feel better about how mediocre Marquette was this past season.

It does.

[MuggsyB]

Sure, make fun of the Big 10 all you want if it makes you feel better about how mediocre Marquette was this past season.

No one disagrees that we had a brutal year.  The hype of the B14 this year is reason enough to slam them.

[MU82]

Sure, make fun of the Big 10 all you want if it makes you feel better about how mediocre Marquette was this past season.

Thanks for giving us permission.

Nice gag job by the B14.

[NorthernDancerColt]

Sure, make fun of the Big 10 all you want if it makes you feel better about how mediocre Marquette was this past season.

With me, it has no relation or bearing on Marquette’s season or current standing.

It has everything to do with the STODGINESS of that conference.

While they don’t quite exhibit the patrician attitudes of ACC devotees, make no mistake, Big 10/14 fans and alums will tell you their conference is not only superior to yours but unmatched in tradition. Their campuses are mostly in the middle of nowhere, contrasted with the vibrant cities of the BigEast. Their generally plodding style of play fits with their mostly drab rural locations, apologies to the somewhat more urban-feel exceptions at the U of Michigan (Detroit proximity), Northwestern (Chicago proximity), and UW-Madison. The BigEast should be running recruiting circles around these ancient, rural land-grant yawners. 

Will root for them to lose every year, every day of the week. I root for them only when they face ND in any sport or play against a corrupt SEC football titan.

[MuggsyB]

With me, it has no relation or bearing on Marquette’s season or current standing.

It has everything to do with the STODGINESS of that conference.

While they don’t quite exhibit the patrician attitudes of ACC devotees, make no mistake, Big 10/14 fans and alums will tell you their conference is not only superior to yours but unmatched in tradition. Their campuses are mostly in the middle of nowhere, contrasted with the vibrant cities of the BigEast. Their general plodding style of play fits with their mostly drab rural locations, apologies to the somewhat more urban-feel location exceptions at the U of Michigan (Detroit proximity), Northwestern (Chicago proximity), and UW-Madison. The BigEast should be running recruiting circles around these ancient, rural land-grant yawners. 

Will root for them to lose every year, every day of the week. I root for them only when they face ND in any sport or play against a corrupt SEC football titan.

Ha!  That's some funny stuff....and pretty accurate!

[willie warrior]

How in the world did Michigan lose that E8 game??  This will go down as the most embarrassing performance by a conference, after all their hype, in NCAA tourney history.  The streak is still alive!!  21 yrs and counting?

While I will always be a Big 10-14 fan, this year was really a strange year for college bb. Always will favor BEast.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Wasn't there supposed to be 4 Big 10 teams in the FF?

[Uncle Rico]

Crapshoot

[real chili 83]

Best part of the Bwhatever season is my badger BIL owes me another bottle of superb bourbon. 

[Viper]

Sure, make fun of the Big 10 all you want if it makes you feel better about how mediocre Marquette was this past season.

Marquette 67 Wisconsin 65. I feel better.

[Badgerhater]

With me, it has no relation or bearing on Marquette’s season or current standing.

It has everything to do with the STODGINESS of that conference.

While they don’t quite exhibit the patrician attitudes of ACC devotees, make no mistake, Big 10/14 fans and alums will tell you their conference is not only superior to yours but unmatched in tradition. Their campuses are mostly in the middle of nowhere, contrasted with the vibrant cities of the BigEast. Their generally plodding style of play fits with their mostly drab rural locations, apologies to the somewhat more urban-feel exceptions at the U of Michigan (Detroit proximity), Northwestern (Chicago proximity), and UW-Madison. The BigEast should be running recruiting circles around these ancient, rural land-grant yawners. 

Will root for them to lose every year, every day of the week. I root for them only when they face ND in any sport or play against a corrupt SEC football titan.

Minnesota is the most urban campus of all of them.  Madison is just another city surrounded by cornfields.

Maryland is also in DC metro, but it is a fake B10 school.

[WhiteTrash]

Sure, make fun of the Big 10 all you want if it makes you feel better about how mediocre Marquette was this past season.

If MU was mediocre,  Wojo would still be our coach.

[vogue65]

So much for all the so-called statistical nonsence.

Do the ranking metadata algorithm nerds include a "choke" factor or luck in their analysis? 
Of course not.

Much rather watch the game than read or hear meaningless numbers parading as science.
The immeasurable, unmanageable and intangeable decements are far more influential than the numbers based on numbers which are simply low hanging fruit.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

So much for all the so-called statistical nonsence.

The top three KenPom teams made the final four.  UCLA is ranked #15 and beat the #4 team by two points.

Statistically it played out pretty accurately.

[Jockey]

The conference has been overrated from the start. Even with the addition of Joey Hauser!!

It was a league with a few good players and no great players. Franz Wagner - an end of the bench guy in the NBA, at most - is probably the highest drafted guy from the league this year.

[MU82]

The conference has been overrated from the start. Even with the addition of Joey Hauser!!

Made me chuckle, my friend.

[Uncle Rico]

I’m no fan of the Big 14 but the idea it was overrated because of what happened in March is laughable.  The 2011 Big East was a monster and only put 2 teams into the Sweet 16 out of 11 teams with a 1-seed and 2-seed losing in the second round, a 4-seed losing in the opening round along 2 6-seeds losing in the 1st round.

UConn helped the league “save face” by winning it all but even if they hadn’t, it still was a great league.

[JakeBarnes]

The conference has been overrated from the start. Even with the addition of Joey Hauser!!

It was a league with a few good players and no great players. Franz Wagner - an end of the bench guy in the NBA, at most - is probably the highest drafted guy from the league this year.

Ayo and Kofi disagree.

[Galway Eagle]

The conference has been overrated from the start. Even with the addition of Joey Hauser!!

It was a league with a few good players and no great players. Franz Wagner - an end of the bench guy in the NBA, at most - is probably the highest drafted guy from the league this year.

Ayo Kofi and Garza?

[RushmoreAcademy]

Sure, make fun of the Big 10 all you want if it makes you feel better about how mediocre Marquette was this past season.

That’s called being a sports fan.

[Scoop Snoop]

The scrappy team won while the favored team blew way too many almost open shots near the basket. The first 5 minutes, UCLA was so boring a ref fell asleep on his feet and passed out. Not really, but I thought it fits the narrative.

While Howard was outcoached, I could not understand UCLA's decision to launch a 3 attempt near the end and leave plenty of time for UM to win the game after the miss. Then UM launches a 3 attempt. Both decisions coming after TO's. Wow.

[MuggsyB]

Let's take a closer look at the four B14 teams that many thought were title contenders:

Ohio St. lost to Oral Roberts.  A team that was 4th in the Summit and 17-10.  The Buckeyes had one guy playing hero ball and looked like the far less poised basketball team at every critical juncture in the game.

Iowa got their asses handed to them for 40 mins.  They were a complete no show other than Garza, and couldn't guard chairs.  This wasn't a choke job.  They were overrated all season and would have lost to Oregon 10/10 times. 

Illinois, notwithstanding Loyola being underseeded, got punked by a far less talented team.  Their 1st team AA didn't show up and they never even were a threat to win that game.  Similar to Ohio St. they appeared shaken from the start, the far less confident team, and were down right awful.

Michigan (despite the Livers injury)
absolutely gagged last night.  They lost to a team that other than one player couldn't do diddly squat offensively, had a major disadvantage inside, got hosed on a number of calls, and was one of the last at- large teams to make the dance. 

There were two 7 min game time stretches where UCLA couldn't score, both at the start of the game and when Juzang tweaked his ankle.  In the second half, when Michigan took advantage of the situation, and tied the game at 44 after being down 9, the game was right there for the taking.  Instead, they missed multiple chippies, Wagner continued to be a dumpster fire, they never got the ball to their two players who weren't a disaster, and proceeded to score one basket in like 7 mins.  It was colossal gagathon, Howard was outcoached, and it was the perfect culmination to the B14's humiliating and pathetic performance during the tournament.

[nyg]

Ayo Kofi and Garza?

You would be surprised, but Garza might not be even drafted.  I saw an interview few weeks ago and analyst said he just just way too slow on both ends of the floor. 

In this latest mock, he is not drafted.

https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/

[Galway Eagle]

You would be surprised, but Garza might not be even drafted.  I saw an interview few weeks ago and analyst said he just just way too slow on both ends of the floor. 

In this latest mock, he is not drafted.

https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/

Wow would not have guessed that.

[vogue65]

The scrappy team won while the favored team blew way too many almost open shots near the basket. The first 5 minutes, UCLA was so boring a ref fell asleep on his feet and passed out. Not really, but I thought it fits the narrative.

While Howard was outcoached, I could not understand UCLA's decision to launch a 3 attempt near the end and leave plenty of time for UM to win the game after the miss. Then UM launches a 3 attempt. Both decisions coming after TO's. Wow.

They should fire both coaches.

[avid1010]

I’m no fan of the Big 14 but the idea it was overrated because of what happened in March is laughable.  The 2011 Big East was a monster and only put 2 teams into the Sweet 16 out of 11 teams with a 1-seed and 2-seed losing in the second round, a 4-seed losing in the opening round along 2 6-seeds losing in the 1st round.

UConn helped the league “save face” by winning it all but even if they hadn’t, it still was a great league.

Yeah...kind of a big deal that UConn won it all that year.

I would like to hear from Ben Brust before I make any judgments on what this means for the Big Nothing.

[Dr. Blackheart]

I would point out that three of the Final 4 teams are "basketball first" schools, with Baylor being the "football first" exception. The flame out this year of the B1G isn't because Michigan did not reach the F4, but that they were the only team of nine to reach the Sweet 16.

It's no coincidence that the B1G had not won it all this century. Their efficient style of play is built for the flawed NET where they expanded teams and games to improve their schedule strength incestuously. The problem is, you need to have a varied and adaptive style to win in a single elimination tournament.

Point is, whether football or basketball, B1G schools use the same, stay inside the guardrails approach. It's very predictable and their emphasis is always their conference which usually limits their post-season success.

[MUDPT]

I would point out that three of the Final 4 teams are "basketball first" schools, with Baylor being the "football first" exception. The flame out this year of the B1G isn't because Michigan did not reach the F4, but that they were the only team of nine to reach the Sweet 16.

It's no coincidence that the B1G had not won it all this century. Their efficient style of play is built for the flawed NET where they expanded teams and games to improve their schedule strength incestuously. The problem is, you need to have a varied and adaptive style to win in a single elimination tournament.

Point is, whether football or basketball, B1G schools use the same, stay inside the guardrails approach. It's very predictable and their emphasis is always their conference which usually limits their post-season success.

I’ll add too that the officiating is way different in the conference versus out of. Big 10 has never adjusted.

[vogue65]

You would be surprised, but Garza might not be even drafted.  I saw an interview few weeks ago and analyst said he just just way too slow on both ends of the floor. 

In this latest mock, he is not drafted.

https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/

My reading between the lines from the Smart talk says to me that he doesn't want his players to think too much, it slows them down.  Intuition, refex playing, and spontaneity trump on court analysis.  I think it has something to do with confidence, maturity and practice.  Is it a learned skill or teachable?  I'm not sure.  Do you recruit for mental agility?  All part of talent?

[vogue65]

I’ll add too that the officiating is way different in the conference versus out of. Big 10 has never adjusted.

That is why Al McGuire once declined to play in the NCAA out of his reagion.  He sent a message.  That is why Marquette has problems at the Garden, even in the Big East.  Also, I'm sure subconsciously the refs. are influenced by their league experiences.

[GooooMarquette]

Point is, whether football or basketball, B1G schools use the same, stay inside the guardrails approach. It's very predictable and their emphasis is always their conference which usually limits their post-season success.

Are you referring to the Leaders or the Legends? 🤣

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I would point out that three of the Final 4 teams are "basketball first" schools, with Baylor being the "football first" exception. The flame out this year of the B1G isn't because Michigan did not reach the F4, but that they were the only team of nine to reach the Sweet 16.

It's no coincidence that the B1G had not won it all this century. Their efficient style of play is built for the flawed NET where they expanded teams and games to improve their schedule strength incestuously. The problem is, you need to have a varied and adaptive style to win in a single elimination tournament.

Point is, whether football or basketball, B1G schools use the same, stay inside the guardrails approach. It's very predictable and their emphasis is always their conference which usually limits their post-season success.

The Big Ten is just fine.

Unless I have miscounted, the Big Ten has put more teams in the Final Four than any other conference since the year 2000.  They have been represented 16 times by six different schools.  Since Michigan State won it in 2000, they have lost seven national championship games.

Sure they haven't won it, but they have been very successful in the tournament.  The only conference arguably better has been the ACC.

[skianth16]

You would be surprised, but Garza might not be even drafted.  I saw an interview few weeks ago and analyst said he just just way too slow on both ends of the floor. 

In this latest mock, he is not drafted.

https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/

This probably warrants its own thread, but isn't it weird how in the last few years we've seeing guys like Markus, Powell, and Garza contend for the Naismith trophy but have low chances of getting drafted? I wonder if that's just a recent fluke or if there's a potential trend here.

[BrewCity83]

The Big Ten is just fine.

Unless I have miscounted, the Big Ten has put more teams in the Final Four than any other conference since the year 2000.  They have been represented 16 times by six different schools.  Since Michigan State won it in 2000, they have lost seven national championship games.

Sure they haven't won it, but they have been very successful in the tournament.  The only conference arguably better has been the ACC.

So the Big14Ten is the Buffalo Bills or Minnesota Vikings of college basketball?  LOL.  Always the bridesmaid, never the bride.

[We R Final Four]

Exactly one title since the 80s.

[StillAWarrior]

So the Big14Ten is the Buffalo Bills or Minnesota Vikings of college basketball?  LOL.  Always the bridesmaid, never the bride.

How much would the average MU fan give to be a bridesmaid right about now? Rumor has it at one fan gave $10 million recently just to have a shot at being a bridesmaid.

[BrewCity83]

How much would the average MU fan give to be a bridesmaid right about now? Rumor has it at one fan gave $10 million recently just to have a shot at being a bridesmaid.

We're not talking about MU now, this is about the Big14Ten conference.  However, MU's conference has had more recent NCAA tournament championships than the Big14Ten in the last 20 years. 

And MU was 1-0 vs. the Big14Ten this season.

[StillAWarrior]

We're not talking about MU now, this is about the Big14Ten conference.  However, MU's conference has had more recent NCAA tournament championships than the Big14Ten in the last 20 years. 

And MU was 1-0 vs. the Big14Ten this season.

Relax. Your post that I replied to was talking about the NFL and wedding parties, so you can forgive me for not realizing that you had hard and fast rules about what we were talking about.

[avid1010]

How much would the average MU fan give to be a bridesmaid right about now? Rumor has it at one fan gave $10 million recently just to have a shot at being a bridesmaid.

That question doesn't apply to Villanova...which is the difference in this conversation...

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

So the Big14Ten is the Buffalo Bills or Minnesota Vikings of college basketball?  LOL.  Always the bridesmaid, never the bride.

Dr. B mentioned that their approach has "limited their post season success."  I would argue they have been plenty successful but short of winning it all.

For instance, I don't think the new BE has been overly impressive outside of Villanova winning two titles.

[StillAWarrior]

That question doesn't apply to Villanova...which is the difference in this conversation...

Dr. B mentioned that their approach has "limited their post season success."  I would argue they have been plenty successful but short of winning it all.

For instance, I don't think the new BE has been overly impressive outside of Villanova winning two titles.

You guys need to stop mentioning Villanova (and the BE); BrewCity83 is talking about the Big14Ten conference here.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

You guys need to stop mentioning Villanova (and the BE); BrewCity83 is talking about the Big14Ten conference here.

LOL, I mean, comparing them to the NFL is just fine but another conference is different.  OK then...

[Jockey]

Ayo Kofi and Garza?

Exactly. Good, but not great. No lottery pick. Only Ayo goes in 1st round.

[ATL MU Warrior]

Exactly. Good, but not great. No lottery pick. Only Ayo goes in 1st round.

Yeah, it's gonna take a while for Cockburn.

[lawdog77]

Yeah, it's gonna take a while for Cockburn.

His usage rate needs to increase

[Jockey]

Yeah, it's gonna take a while for Cockburn.

One-trick pony. No mobility. No defense.

That doesn't play in the NBA today.

[Galway Eagle]

Exactly. Good, but not great. No lottery pick. Only Ayo goes in 1st round.

What's Livers' injury? He certainly had 1st round potential.

[MU82]

The Big Ten is just fine.

Unless I have miscounted, the Big Ten has put more teams in the Final Four than any other conference since the year 2000.  They have been represented 16 times by six different schools.  Since Michigan State won it in 2000, they have lost seven national championship games.

Sure they haven't won it, but they have been very successful in the tournament.  The only conference arguably better has been the ACC.

Agree, in general, about the B14 representing itself pretty well over the years.

But the B14 wasn't "just fine" this year, and is very mock-able.

Unlike in non-COVID seasons, there was precious little non-con play by which to judge things. But that didn't stop talking heads at every turn from declaring that the B14 was not only the best conference in the nation this season but maybe the best EVER. Ever!

Sadly for the B14 sycophants, when the league finally got its chance to prove itself against national competition on the biggest stage, it shat the bed.

Three of the headliners -- Illinois (favored by many to win it all), Ohio State and Iowa -- were embarrassingly woeful in their elimination games.

Michigan at least had a legit injury-related excuse, and UCLA is looking like a team of destiny; plus Michigan did get to the Elite 8, so they have nothing to be embarrassed about. But otherwise, the conference simply didn't produce on a national scale.

Pretty funny to see the AAC and the WCC (not to mention the Pac-12) represented in the Final Four ... but The Greatest Conference Ever, the one that was gonna put 3 or 4 teams in the FF, ain't got nuthin'!

[Jockey]

What's Livers' injury? He certainly had 1st round potential.

Livers could end up being the best NBA guy out of the B10 this year. He is made for the 3-and-D role.

[LAZER]

We're not talking about MU now, this is about the Big14Ten conference.  However, MU's conference has had more recent NCAA tournament championships than the Big14Ten in the last 20 years. 

And MU was 1-0 vs. the Big14Ten this season.

Since 2014, the Big 10 has significantly outperformed the Big East in the NCAA tournament.  While NC's are obviously important, I don't think they reflect the strength of a conference.

[TVDirector]

One-trick pony. No mobility. No defense.

That doesn't play in the NBA today.

now only if he had a rocket launcher...

[GooooMarquette]

What's Livers' injury? He certainly had 1st round potential.

Official word is 'stress injury,' which could mean anything from minor trauma to the bone to a stress fracture. Should be fine with rest.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Dr. B mentioned that their approach has "limited their post season success."  I would argue they have been plenty successful but short of winning it all.

For instance, I don't think the new BE has been overly impressive outside of Villanova winning two titles.

I guess I wouldn't call that success but underperforming their ratings, especially for the size of their conference. Based of the affiliation at the time, the B1G has 14 Final Fours and zero natties this century. MSU has five of those.

The ACC has 12/7. BE has 10/6. Big 12 has 11/1. SEC has 10/3. PAC has 6/0. (Numbers count 2021 F4).

Again, will they be okay? Yes, they are productive....up until the point of ultimate success, especially considering the amount of teams in the conference. They are statistically overrated because of the factors I mentioned, and certainly didn't deserve having four teams seeded in the top 2.

Basketball centricity (either conference or school within a football conference like MSU or Kansas) matters.

[LAZER]

Dr. B mentioned that their approach has "limited their post season success."  I would argue they have been plenty successful but short of winning it all.

For instance, I don't think the new BE has been overly impressive outside of Villanova winning two titles.

Some back of the envelope math here, but since 2014 I have NCAA tournament records as:

B10 - 68-48
BE   - 36-34 (18-29 for non-Nova schools)

[cheebs09]

This probably warrants its own thread, but isn't it weird how in the last few years we've seeing guys like Markus, Powell, and Garza contend for the Naismith trophy but have low chances of getting drafted? I wonder if that's just a recent fluke or if there's a potential trend here.

I think it’s similar to the Heisman in college football. What works in college doesn’t always work against a league full of pros donning 15 years in age.

I remember Scottie Reynolds being a great college player but didn’t do much in the pros.

[MU82]

Some are arguing B14 vs BEast. And that's certainly fair game. As arre the B14's performance this century and all-time.

But some of us are just having fun laughing at The Greatest Conference Ever's performance in March.

One 1-seed lost to an MVC team. The other fell to a team that barely qualified (and needed to beat another underperforming B14 team in the "first four" just to stay in the tourney). One 2-seed lost to the Summit League's 4th-place team. The other 2 was run out of the gym by a 7-seed. A 4-seed lost to the 3rd-place finisher in Conference USA's West division.

Ladies and gentlemen, your fearsome B14 of 2020-21!