US Economy thread

[Uncle Rico]

  I don't believe you understand the foxcon project at all and no surprise it's been revised quite beautifully by you guys. 

  Scott walker had it set up such that foxconn would get no money unless they met certain hiring prerequisites, etc etc  well , they never did under walker and did not get paid a dime.  Uncle Tony however renegotiated the deal to lower the bar for foxconn



"it’s first worth noting that Wisconsin has not yet given Foxconn any money."

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/apr/30/tony-evers/gov-tony-evers-doesnt-tell-whole-story-claim-new-f/

 Microsoft would have never considered the mount pleasant area if not for it having been developed to promote/attract companies like foxconn

lol

8 out of 10

[Pakuni]

  I don't believe you understand the foxcon project at all and no surprise it's been revised quite beautifully by you guys. 

  Scott walker had it set up such that foxconn would get no money unless they met certain hiring prerequisites, etc etc  well , they never did under walker and did not get paid a dime.  Uncle Tony however renegotiated the deal to lower the bar for foxconn



"it’s first worth noting that Wisconsin has not yet given Foxconn any money."

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/apr/30/tony-evers/gov-tony-evers-doesnt-tell-whole-story-claim-new-f/

 Microsoft would have never considered the mount pleasant area if not for it having been developed to promote/attract companies like foxconn

In anticipation of 13,000 new workers, the Wisconsin Department of Transportation spent $168 million of taxpayer money for pavement that now “leads to nowhere.” Highway lanes were expanded, and rural roads became four-lane highways. Murphy reports that “the Village of Mount Pleasant and Racine County committed to spending $808 million for sewer, water and other costs and by 2021 had spent $258 million on this.”
By 2021, Wisconsin spent $683 million of taxpayer funds on a manufacturing campus that never came into full fruition. As time goes on, even though Foxconn publicly announced it will no longer be creating a ginormous factory, governmental entities are expected to spend even more. As reported by Murphy in 2021, at least another $552 million is projected to be spent.

And here's the piece de reistance:

Since the Foxconn deal slowly crumbled, the state has been trying to entice other large corporations to invest in the land already prepared for Foxconn. Most recently, Microsoft has stepped in and purchased $50 million of land for a data center. However, according to previous agreements, all those dollars will be paid to Foxconn.

https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2023/7/20/wisconsin-foxconn-deal-cost-taxpayers-millionsand-it-will-continue-to-cost-more-millions

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Nice try, but facts are for people that don't live in Fantasy Land of Things They Wish Were True.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

It was beneficial for the State of Wisconsin that Foxconn never held up their end of the bargain. It was a terrible agreement and pretty much everyone not named “Scott Walker” knows this.

[Goose]

rocket

While I am far from expert in doing business in SE Asia and obviously have never done a major deal anywhere near the Foxconn deal in the region, but I am knowledgeable enough to see red flags. I stated on here when the Foxconn deal was announced that you could not finalize a deal on buying a $1m of toys from Taiwan as fast as that deal was completed. I was at the announcement party and actually stated the same thing to the MKE Biz Journal.

IMO, the deal happened for one of the three following reasons, #1 the state of WI gave away the farm immediately, #2 the state of WI had no idea what they were agreeing to or #3 it was a con job. The leadership of Foxconn are ruthless biz people and they either saw a mark with Scott Walker or they in on the con. My opinion, it was a combination of all three. Walker thought he could make something work, he was not sure what that looked like and it was a con job.

I like Scott Walker, but to say he was woefully unqualified to be part of that deal is a massive understatement. Brass from Apple get strong armed in Taiwan and China and they are high level guys. To believe that Walker and the posse they sent to Taiwan could handle that deal was laughable.

My biggest regret on that deal, I have to admit that it made the R's, both in WI and nationally, looked like the suckers at the table. I literally could not believe that there were biz leaders in WI that believed that the Foxconn was legit.

One thing I am confident in my life in saying is that anyone that thinks they will outsmart or outlast the Taiwanese/Chinese are delusional. I have seen firsthand for nearly 40 years biz leaders coming home from China/Taiwan thinking they won the battle and 99 out of 100 times they left money on the table. There was 0% chance of that deal being anything other than a costly PR move.

[Pakuni]

It was beneficial for the State of Wisconsin that Foxconn never held up their end of the bargain. It was a terrible agreement and pretty much everyone not named “Scott Walker” knows this.

Having presidential aspirations requires thinking big.
Or the killing of unruly puppies.

[Uncle Rico]

rocket

While I am far from expert in doing business in SE Asia and obviously have never done a major deal anywhere near the Foxconn deal in the region, but I am knowledgeable enough to see red flags. I stated on here when the Foxconn deal was announced that you could not finalize a deal on buying a $1m of toys from Taiwan as fast as that deal was completed. I was at the announcement party and actually stated the same thing to the MKE Biz Journal.

IMO, the deal happened for one of the three following reasons, #1 the state of WI gave away the farm immediately, #2 the state of WI had no idea what they were agreeing to or #3 it was a con job. The leadership of Foxconn are ruthless biz people and they either saw a mark with Scott Walker or they in on the con. My opinion, it was a combination of all three. Walker thought he could make something work, he was not sure what that looked like and it was a con job.

I like Scott Walker, but to say he was woefully unqualified to be part of that deal is a massive understatement. Brass from Apple get strong armed in Taiwan and China and they are high level guys. To believe that Walker and the posse they sent to Taiwan could handle that deal was laughable.

My biggest regret on that deal, I have to admit that it made the R's, both in WI and nationally, looked like the suckers at the table. I literally could not believe that there were biz leaders in WI that believed that the Foxconn was legit.

One thing I am confident in my life in saying is that anyone that thinks they will outsmart or outlast the Taiwanese/Chinese are delusional. I have seen firsthand for nearly 40 years biz leaders coming home from China/Taiwan thinking they won the battle and 99 out of 100 times they left money on the table. There was 0% chance of that deal being anything other than a costly PR move.

This.  I know dyed-in-the-wool R’s who said at the time exactly what you’re saying. 

[Goose]

Rico

I have been a proud R my entire life and not afraid to admit that. When that deal was announced, especially with the high profile R's involved, I said to anyone that listen, "is this fxxkin serious?". I am ashamed that my party and the state of WI was involved that mess. That said, I am hopeful that MSFT can add to the WI economy. My guess, someone will fxck this as well.

[Uncle Rico]

Rico

I have been a proud R my entire life and not afraid to admit that. When that deal was announced, especially with the high profile R's involved, I said to anyone that listen, "is this fxxkin serious?". I am ashamed that my party and the state of WI was involved that mess. That said, I am hopeful that MSFT can add to the WI economy. My guess, someone will fxck this as well.

Correct on the last part.  My confidence level is pretty low this works out like they’re projecting

[Pakuni]

Correct on the last part.  My confidence level is pretty low this works out like they’re projecting

While it's a positive that anything is going on there, data centers tend not to provide major economic boosts. They don't provide significant employment - definitely not relative to their size - and nothing is manufactured or sold there.
Probably the biggest benefit will go to Mount Pleasant, IF they were/are smart enough to establish a municipal electricity tax.

[Hards Alumni]

rocket

While I am far from expert in doing business in SE Asia and obviously have never done a major deal anywhere near the Foxconn deal in the region, but I am knowledgeable enough to see red flags. I stated on here when the Foxconn deal was announced that you could not finalize a deal on buying a $1m of toys from Taiwan as fast as that deal was completed. I was at the announcement party and actually stated the same thing to the MKE Biz Journal.

IMO, the deal happened for one of the three following reasons, #1 the state of WI gave away the farm immediately, #2 the state of WI had no idea what they were agreeing to or #3 it was a con job. The leadership of Foxconn are ruthless biz people and they either saw a mark with Scott Walker or they in on the con. My opinion, it was a combination of all three. Walker thought he could make something work, he was not sure what that looked like and it was a con job.

I like Scott Walker, but to say he was woefully unqualified to be part of that deal is a massive understatement. Brass from Apple get strong armed in Taiwan and China and they are high level guys. To believe that Walker and the posse they sent to Taiwan could handle that deal was laughable.

My biggest regret on that deal, I have to admit that it made the R's, both in WI and nationally, looked like the suckers at the table. I literally could not believe that there were biz leaders in WI that believed that the Foxconn was legit.

One thing I am confident in my life in saying is that anyone that thinks they will outsmart or outlast the Taiwanese/Chinese are delusional. I have seen firsthand for nearly 40 years biz leaders coming home from China/Taiwan thinking they won the battle and 99 out of 100 times they left money on the table. There was 0% chance of that deal being anything other than a costly PR move.

Agreed.  Would have been awesome if everything that was promised did happen though.  I'd be singing Walker's praises if it did.

Buuuuuuuuuuut I will say that Tony Evers did try to save the doomed project as well.  It was foolishness on both of their accounts.

[rocket surgeon]

goose-

   thank you for the clarity!  knowing you and how you've done business in that part of the globe, I completely respect your point of view. 

   correct me if i'm wrong however-regardless of whatever deal was struck with foxconn, my understanding is foxconn got the land and infrastructure to locate on BUT would not realize any thing unless they met certain hiring criteria...which they did not

  yes, wisconsin was sitting on a big piece of land all set up for business, great access to the freeway and proximity to milwaukee, madison and chicago

  tell me what's wrong with that except the fact that they do not have the tenant they expected?   now a company such as microsoft comes along and goes-hey, the table is set here

maybe not the way many wanted it to be, but the investment in infrastructure will pay off

hell if it's money they could've used elsewhere?  this state should be in pretty good shape if they can afford to keep a few billion tax payer dollars in the bank rather than giving it back to those of us who over paid

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

goose-

   thank you for the clarity!  knowing you and how you've done business in that part of the globe, I completely respect your point of view. 

   correct me if i'm wrong however-regardless of whatever deal was struck with foxconn, my understanding is foxconn got the land and infrastructure to locate on BUT would not realize any thing unless they met certain hiring criteria...which they did not

  yes, wisconsin was sitting on a big piece of land all set up for business, great access to the freeway and proximity to milwaukee, madison and chicago

  tell me what's wrong with that except the fact that they do not have the tenant they expected?   now a company such as microsoft comes along and goes-hey, the table is set here

maybe not the way many wanted it to be, but the investment in infrastructure will pay off

hell if it's money they could've used elsewhere?  this state should be in pretty good shape if they can afford to keep a few billion tax payer dollars in the bank rather than giving it back to those of us who over paid

Read the article that Pak posted.

[Uncle Rico]

Read the article that Pak posted.

Hahahhahahaha

[MU82]

  I don't believe you understand the foxcon project at all and no surprise it's been revised quite beautifully by you guys. 

  Scott walker had it set up such that foxconn would get no money unless they met certain hiring prerequisites, etc etc  well , they never did under walker and did not get paid a dime.  Uncle Tony however renegotiated the deal to lower the bar for foxconn



"it’s first worth noting that Wisconsin has not yet given Foxconn any money."

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/apr/30/tony-evers/gov-tony-evers-doesnt-tell-whole-story-claim-new-f/

 Microsoft would have never considered the mount pleasant area if not for it having been developed to promote/attract companies like foxconn

I know you won’t listen to any of us Commies but you might want to read Goose’s comment 5x.

Walker and your hero were duped. It was at best a nothingburger for Wisconsin and more like a shyte deal.

Thankfully, the big boys have entered the room.

As others have said, the football shouldn’t be spiked yet. But at least there’s a chance this time with Satya Nadella and Microsoft..

[rocket surgeon]

Hahahhahahaha

 leeeeko-

living up to your name removing all doubt

[rocket surgeon]

I know you won’t listen to any of us Commies but you might want to read Goose’s comment 5x.

Walker and your hero were duped. It was at best a nothingburger for Wisconsin and more like a shyte deal.

Thankfully, the big boys have entered the room.

As others have said, the football shouldn’t be spiked yet. But at least there’s a chance this time with Satya Nadella and Microsoft..

  no need to read it any more than once as it was quite clear and well written.  goose and I talk often and his pov was one of the best on scoop in a long time

who are the "big boys"?

there are a lot of shysters out there

[Uncle Rico]

  no need to read it any more than once as it was quite clear and well written.  goose and I talk often and his pov was one of the best on scoop in a long time

who are the "big boys"?

there are a lot of shysters out there

It’s beautiful.  9 out of 10

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

  no need to read it any more than once as it was quite clear and well written.  goose and I talk often and his pov was one of the best on scoop in a long time

Yikes.

[Plaque Lives Matter!]

Do you think Scott Walker’s a**hole tastes similarly to Scott Drew’s

[Goose]

82

The big boys entered the room is correct, the MSFT big boys. That said, they could have sent middle management to handle this deal and get it closed quickly. If you think this is some Masters Class on biz by the D’s, I think you are exactly what you hate about R’s, which is allowing your dislike of the party cloud your judgement.

For the record, I think Walker fell victim to the party and was more a pawn than a dupe. Trump orchestrated the deal and he would have used MI or Ohio for this deal as easily as WI.

I have no idea how big the MSFT plan in WI goes, but I am 99% sure the D’s have the little idea as well. From my understanding, MSFT has turned down state and federal funding on this project because they do not want to share their plans with Uncle Sam. IMO, this could be the steal of the year for MSFT and the credit goes to them and not the state of WI or the D’s.

I thought Trump looked like a fool during the Foxconn deal and Biden looked the same to me yesterday during his visit. I will say at least Trump masterminded his deal and it fooled a lot of people. Biden has no idea on what is going on with MSFT other than talking points. Good news for him, the bar is so low for him that his supporters only want/need him to do is not fxxk his talking points.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

82

The big boys entered the room is correct, the MSFT big boys. That said, they could have sent middle management to handle this deal and get it closed quickly. If you think this is some Masters Class on biz by the D’s, I think you are exactly what you hate about R’s, which is allowing your dislike of the party cloud your judgement.

For the record, I think Walker fell victim to the party and was more a pawn than a dupe. Trump orchestrated the deal and he would have used MI or Ohio for this deal as easily as WI.

I have no idea how big the MSFT plan in WI goes, but I am 99% sure the D’s have the little idea as well. From my understanding, MSFT has turned down state and federal funding on this project because they do not want to share their plans with Uncle Sam. IMO, this could be the steal of the year for MSFT and the credit goes to them and not the state of WI or the D’s.

I thought Trump looked like a fool during the Foxconn deal and Biden looked the same to me yesterday during his visit. I will say at least Trump masterminded his deal and it fooled a lot of people. Biden has no idea on what is going on with MSFT other than talking points. Good news for him, the bar is so low for him that his supporters only want/need him to do is not fxxk his talking points.

Glad to see those talks with rocket are having an impact.

[MU82]

82

The big boys entered the room is correct, the MSFT big boys. That said, they could have sent middle management to handle this deal and get it closed quickly. If you think this is some Masters Class on biz by the D’s, I think you are exactly what you hate about R’s, which is allowing your dislike of the party cloud your judgement.

For the record, I think Walker fell victim to the party and was more a pawn than a dupe. Trump orchestrated the deal and he would have used MI or Ohio for this deal as easily as WI.

I have no idea how big the MSFT plan in WI goes, but I am 99% sure the D’s have the little idea as well. From my understanding, MSFT has turned down state and federal funding on this project because they do not want to share their plans with Uncle Sam. IMO, this could be the steal of the year for MSFT and the credit goes to them and not the state of WI or the D’s.

I thought Trump looked like a fool during the Foxconn deal and Biden looked the same to me yesterday during his visit. I will say at least Trump masterminded his deal and it fooled a lot of people. Biden has no idea on what is going on with MSFT other than talking points. Good news for him, the bar is so low for him that his supporters only want/need him to do is not fxxk his talking points.

By "big boys," I clearly was talking about Nadella/Microsoft - and that's exactly what I said in my post. I didn't mention Evers or any other D's, because I don't know how involved or uninvolved they were - and I doubt you know either.

Otherwise, Goose, you're offering lots of opinion - and that's OK, we all do it. Neither you nor I know how involved either Trump or Biden were in the respective plans - although if Trump was indeed the "mastermind," it again shows how just about everything he touches turns to shyte even as his cultists worship his godly genius.

To me, both Trump and Biden appeared to have used the situations purely as ways to score political points. Biden was obviously loving the opportunity to troll Trump. This situation at least has a chance to succeed because of Nadella/Microsoft's involvement.

[Goose]

82

Not that I have crazy inside info, but I have two very good friends that were part of the consulting/planning on the Foxconn deal. I heard enough to form a pretty solid opinion on the deal. That said, you are correct I am sharing my opinion.