MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: wadesworld on January 22, 2021, 09:48:15 AM
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Hammerin' Hank. A true legend. The real home run king.
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Hammerin' Hank. A true legend. The real home run king.
So sad.
I was at his last game. In his last career AB, he hit an RBI single and Jim Gantner came in to pinch run.
RIP Hammerin' Hank
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(https://media.giphy.com/media/KfloDxYRHMcs48tyAw/giphy.gif)
Truly a legend and a great. Wow.
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One of my first sports recollections was him chasing the home run record in the summer of '73. It is also the first time I was aware of racial issues as 7-year-old me could not understand why anyone would threaten to kill someone chasing a record.
A true great. And another boyhood hero gone.
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https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/a/aaronha01.shtml
Amazing. The world sucks a little more today.
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https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/a/aaronha01.shtml
Amazing. The world sucks a little more today.
Kinda cool that #44 hit 44 HRs four times....
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Before my time (and I'm from Chicago) but this is crushing news from every corner of the sports world. He was my grandpa's favorite player and I have never heard a single thing uttered about Mr. Aaron that wasn't positive. He was a total class act and model for not just athletes, but all of us. I feel strongly that it was an absolute travesty his hr record was illegally broken. He's without question the greatest pro athlete in the history of Wisconsin. May he rest in peace.
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Hammerin' Hank. A true legend. The real home run king.
The actual homerun champ indeed.
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Before my time (and I'm from Chicago) but this is crushing news from every corner of the sports world. He was my grandpa's favorite player and I have never heard a single thing uttered about Mr. Aaron that wasn't positive. He was a total class act and model for not just athletes, but all of us. I feel strongly that it was an absolute travesty his hr record was illegally broken. He's without question the greatest pro athlete in the history of Wisconsin. May he rest in peace.
^ Couldn't agree more
25 time All Star. Roll that around in your head for a second.
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^ Couldn't agree more
25 time All Star. Roll that around in your head for a second.
His 21 seasons of being an All Star is one ahead of Stan Musial and Willie Mays.
One of the best to ever play the game.
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Before my time, but the absolute epitome of class.
One of my favorite stories is Hank reuniting with the fans who ran onto the field to celebrate his 715th.
https://www.espn.com/mlb/news/story?id=5504664 (https://www.espn.com/mlb/news/story?id=5504664)
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In July Scoop had a thread on this legend, one of my childhood heroes.
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=60671.msg1257933#msg1257933
Also in the Obits:
My very first childhood sports hero also just died. I was only 5 in kindergarten, when my dad tells me of the famous family sitting next to us in church. Bob Sadek was a U of Minn FB QB who led them to the Rose bowl, and next to him was younger brother Mike Sadek, star catcher at Edina High later to be drafted by the Giants. At the time I thought these guys were HUGE, most famous sports guys I could ever hope to meet....well, oh to be a star struck 5 year old again....as... ESPN reminded me Mike barely ended up a journeyman, to wit:
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/30751475/mike-sadek-former-san-francisco-giants-catcher-dies-74-illness
So, who was your earliest sports hero?
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One of the true all time baseball greats . 755 homers with no steroids. Batted .305 in an era dominated by pitchers . Consistency of top level performance was incredible.
Aaron was not a big tv celebrity . So sometimes he does not get his proper recognition on the Mt.Olympus of sports. He is definitely sitting there with the rest of the sports gods in my book.
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Henry Aaron is a prime example of the American Dream and why sports and politics are intertwined. He was one of my heroes and I never saw him play. The way he carried himself on and off the field is something everyone should strive for
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https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/a/aaronha01.shtml
Amazing. The world sucks a little more today.
Before my time but a legend. I was surprised to see he only has a single MVP.
Imagine having these stats in a 154 game season....
.355 BA (#1)
.636 slugging (#1)
400 total bases (#1)
92 extra base hits (#1)
223 hits (#1)
46 doubles (#2)
7 triples (#8)
39 HR (#3)
123 RBI (#3)
116 runs (#4)
....and finishing 3rd in MVP voting and 4th most 1st place votes. 1959. A teammate (Mathews) even came in above. At first I assumed this had to be a travesty but looking at what Banks and Mathews did that year, not black-and-white.
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The Packers should pay tribute to Mr. Aaron before the game on Sunday.
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I was so very sad to hear this news this morning. He was a phenomenal baseball player of course but such a great person too. One year when I ran the Hank Aaron 5K in Milwaukee he was there for a ceremony for the Hank Aaron trail and it was cool just to see him in person.
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Saw him for the 1st time in Milwaukee when I was 4 years old. Over the years I saw him dozens and dozens of times.
He was my 1st baseball hero. My favorite player ever. First, for his baseball abilities. Second (as I grew older), for his unrivalled class on and off the field.
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Absolutely the quickest wrists of any baseball player I've ever seen. Hit for power, had the arm from right field, ran the bases. Hammerin' Hank did it all, aina?
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He was a great hitter who also hit home runs. With Ruth and Mays as the top 3 players in history, IMO. People tend to think of him as a HR hitter, but he could do everything on a baseball field, was a trailblazer and a gentleman of the first order. Sad day for America.
Just a brutal stretch for baseball legends.
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For some reason him and Bill Russell more than any other athletes seemed larger than life to me.
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He was a great hitter who also hit home runs. With Ruth and Mays as the top 3 players in history, IMO. People tend to think of him as a HR hitter, but he could do everything on a baseball field, was a trailblazer and a gentleman of the first order. Sad day for America.
Ted Williams?
Just a brutal stretch for baseball legends.
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I'm a die hard Red Sox and am a huge fan of Ted Williams, even though he retired right before I was born. Williams was a better hitter, but Aaron was a much better fielder and base runner and played 1,000 more games. I'd take Aaron, but I wouldn't argue too strenuously with anyone who preferred Williams. Going through both of their baseball reference pages is fun.
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I didn't become a baseball fan until I was a teenager, and one of my first and fondest memories was of his 715th home run.
I took it upon myself to learn all there was to know about Hank, and he definitely became one of my earliest sports heroes. After I became an adult and got to talk to others who knew him pretty well, he just seemed like the classiest of class acts to me.
Oh, and I just got this text from my son:
When I saw that Hank died, I looked up his stats. Obviously an all-time great, and there's a ton to be amazed at, but this blows my mind: He never struck out 100 times in a season. Fewer than 1400 Ks in 23 seasons. Amazing for a HR hitter of his stature.
My son has followed the "close your eyes and swing as hard as you can" era pretty much his whole life, so I can see how that would amaze him.
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One of if not the best to ever play the game. Before my time but heard all the stories from dad and uncles.
He also starred in one of my favorite super bowl commercials:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5kLuWmw5EM
Rest in Peace Hammerin' Hank
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I didn't become a baseball fan until I was a teenager, and one of my first and fondest memories was of his 715th home run.
I took it upon myself to learn all there was to know about Hank, and he definitely became one of my earliest sports heroes. After I became an adult and got to talk to others who knew him pretty well, he just seemed like the classiest of class acts to me.
Oh, and I just got this text from my son:
When I saw that Hank died, I looked up his stats. Obviously an all-time great, and there's a ton to be amazed at, but this blows my mind: He never struck out 100 times in a season. Fewer than 1400 Ks in 23 seasons. Amazing for a HR hitter of his stature.
My son has followed the "close your eyes and swing as hard as you can" era pretty much his whole life, so I can see how that would amaze him.
Joe DiMaggio hit more HRs than Ks in 7 of his 13 seasons.
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The actual homerun champ indeed.
Could not agree more.
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As someone who LOVED Barry Bonds as a kid, back to his Pirates days, I agree with the true Home Run King label for Hank, but also am bummed at Bonds' legacy.
3 MVPs, 1 Runner Up, 7 Gold Gloves, 7 Silver Sluggers, 400 HRs, 400+ SBs, .295 average, and only 0 seasons over 95Ks after his rookie year...all before he started juicing. He had like a 92 WAR through his career to that point.
He was an absolute freak of nature, that first year with the Giants in 1993 was an absurd season statistically. And that all got sullied to be a balloon headed bomb chaser. Sucks
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As someone who LOVED Barry Bonds as a kid, back to his Pirates days, I agree with the true Home Run King label for Hank, but also am bummed at Bonds' legacy.
3 MVPs, 1 Runner Up, 7 Gold Gloves, 7 Silver Sluggers, 400 HRs, 400+ SBs, .295 average, and only 0 seasons over 95Ks after his rookie year...all before he started juicing. He had like a 92 WAR through his career to that point.
He was an absolute freak of nature, that first year with the Giants in 1993 was an absurd season statistically. And that all got sullied to be a balloon headed bomb chaser. Sucks
I agree. Bonds was a great player destined for the Hall of Fame before he apparently started juicing. Why he chose to sully his legacy at that point is beyond me.
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As someone who LOVED Barry Bonds as a kid, back to his Pirates days, I agree with the true Home Run King label for Hank, but also am bummed at Bonds' legacy.
3 MVPs, 1 Runner Up, 7 Gold Gloves, 7 Silver Sluggers, 400 HRs, 400+ SBs, .295 average, and only 0 seasons over 95Ks after his rookie year...all before he started juicing. He had like a 92 WAR through his career to that point.
He was an absolute freak of nature, that first year with the Giants in 1993 was an absurd season statistically. And that all got sullied to be a balloon headed bomb chaser. Sucks
Yup. He was an all time great before juicing.
I agree. Bonds was a great player destined for the Hall of Fame before he apparently started juicing. Why he chose to sully his legacy at that point is beyond me.
Wanted to reach the mountaintop as the best. McGuire and Sosa got all the attention.
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One other great Henry stat that I saw today. If you take away all of Hammerin Hanks homers he still had over 3000 hits.
I saw Henry hit a homer at the 1971 All Star game at Tiger Stadium against Vida Blue. Was one of the great all star games played. The players were still playing for League pride back then. The bat action Henry created with his wrists, was incredible, in those days the ball was not as lively as it was today, so it took considerable power to actually drive a ball out of the ball park.
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Some good films of Henry from 1957 , I really enjoy these older videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PObdvfCrw_A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PoaAmkO-fg
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It’s not my original idea, but I totally back the notion that Miller Park Way should be renamed Henry Aaron Drive.
AmFam Field’s address could be:
755 Henry Aaron Drive
Milwaukee, WI
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It’s not my original idea, but I totally back the notion that Miller Park Way should be renamed Henry Aaron Drive.
AmFam Field’s address could be:
755 Henry Aaron Drive
Milwaukee, WI
We have the Henry Aaron trail running through the valley along Miller Park Way already. I wouldn’t be upset at any memorial towards Henry Aaron, though.
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It’s not my original idea, but I totally back the notion that Miller Park Way should be renamed Henry Aaron Drive.
AmFam Field’s address could be:
755 Henry Aaron Drive
Milwaukee, WI
It would be an amazing idea.
The other Milwaukee baseball player who I think ought to be considered for a similar honor at some point is Robin Yount. A Hall of Famer and 2-time MVP who played his entire career with the Brewers.
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Yup. He was an all time great before juicing.
Wanted to reach the mountaintop as the best. McGuire and Sosa got all the attention.
That is the true tragedy of Barry Bonds. He is probably one of the top players ever without the BS. He didn't need the HRs.
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That is the true tragedy of Barry Bonds. He is probably one of the top players ever without the BS. He didn't need the HRs.
And he already was hitting plenty of home runs. Just not the 70 that Mac and Sosa were closing in on.
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Aaron never spent a single day on the disabled list.
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Hank Aaron's hr title should have been restored a long time ago. And the fact that Selig allowed this to happen is pathetic. A 5 yr old could look at Bonds and others in the Steroid era and see in 10 secs that these were freaks using performance enhancing drugs. They made Ivan Drago look ethical in comparison.
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Did anybody happen to see the ESPN game a few years ago when Aaron sat in the booth? It started out as one of those short visits and he ended staying around for several innings. It was really remarkable viewing. It was a three man booth (4 with Hank) and they essentially just stopped talking about the game and just talked with him about his memories, his career, etc. I remember they even had Billy Williams call in to talk with him about their Alabama days. It was riveting stuff and a real treat for a baseball fan. He was such as wonderful guy that, even if he wasn’t the Home Run King, his loss would be sad. He was a real American treasure.
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Hank Aaron's hr title should have been restored a long time ago. And the fact that Selig allowed this to happen is pathetic. A 5 yr old could look at Bonds and others in the Steroid era and see in 10 secs that these were freaks using performance enhancing drugs. They made Ivan Drago look ethical in comparison.
Making moral judgements about what stats are worthy and which are not is a slippery slope.. Since he was never suspended for his use of PEDs, and all his legal issues around BALCO have disappeared, there is no reason to take away his numbers even though people feel they are tainted.
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How in the world did Aaron hit cross handed? I didn't realize he learned that way and then switched his grip early in his career.
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It would be an amazing idea.
The other Milwaukee baseball player who I think ought to be considered for a similar honor at some point is Robin Yount. A Hall of Famer and 2-time MVP who played his entire career with the Brewers.
I think it should be named after Yount. He was the greatest Brewer to play the game.
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I think it should be named after Yount. He was the greatest Brewer to play the game.
Maybe. Yount doesn’t have the national name recognition, but I understand your point.
As an aside, unfortunately, I think you have to wait until the namesake is dead. Any living athlete technically still has the opportunity to “go OJ Simpson.”
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And he already was hitting plenty of home runs. Just not the 70 that Mac and Sosa were closing in on.
Barry Bonds, pre-PEDs, when he was stealing bases and playing the field was a joy to watch. He was a jag off even then but his play on the field was brilliant. I’ll admit to going to Miller Park just to watch him but even though I knew he was juicing because he was still a show. At the end of the day, whether we consider Hank Aaron the HR king or not, what Hank Aaron represented was far greater than a number
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I have to say that Mr. Aaron taking the Moderna vaccine a few weeks ago is a little concerning.
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Maybe. Yount doesn’t have the national name recognition, but I understand your point.
As an aside, unfortunately, I think you have to wait until the namesake is dead. Any living athlete technically still has the opportunity to “go OJ Simpson.”
Maybe they should name it for him? Because he is undoubtedly the greatest Brewer to play the game while wearing the uniform. That probably says more about their short and rather inglorious history than anything, but still...
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Joe DiMaggio hit more HRs than Ks in 7 of his 13 seasons.
That's funny, because here was my text back to my son:
Yeah, that is amazing. But if you want to see some incredible low-strikeout totals for a HR hitter, check out DiMaggio. In 1941, he struck out 13 times!
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I have to say that Mr. Aaron taking the Moderna vaccine a few weeks ago is a little concerning.
Why? Is there some evidence that his death was a vaccine reaction?
The simple reality is that 86-year old guys die pretty regularly. In fact, by making it to 86, Aaron outlived life expectancy for an American male by 10 years. And as an African-American, he outlived his life expectancy by 17 years. Unless there is some direct evidence that it was vaccine-related, I suspect it's just an elderly man dying.
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That's funny, because here was my text back to my son:
Yeah, that is amazing. But if you want to see some incredible low-strikeout totals for a HR hitter, check out DiMaggio. In 1941, he struck out 13 times!
Obviously a completely different type of hitter, but, if you're talking about amazingly low K totals, Nellie Fox, struck out 216 times in his 19 year career. (over 10K ABs) He averaged 15Ks per 162 games. The most he ever struck out was 18 times. That was in 624 ABs.
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That's funny, because here was my text back to my son:
Yeah, that is amazing. But if you want to see some incredible low-strikeout totals for a HR hitter, check out DiMaggio. In 1941, he struck out 13 times!
DiMaggio's low strikeout totals are fantastic. But any comparison to Hammerin' Hank is irrelevant. 'Home run hitters' notoriously strikeout at a much higher rate than guys with lower HR totals. A much better comparison would be a guy like Tony Gwynn or Wade Boggs. Gwynn in particular compares very favorably to DiMaggio. To wit:
Best season in terms of fewest Ks - slight edge to DiMaggio:
1995: Gwynn played 135 games and had 577 plate appearances and 14 strikeouts (1K in 41.2 PA).
1941: DiMaggio played 139 games and had 541 plate appearances and 13 strikeouts (1K in 41.6 PA).
Overall career - edge to Gwynn:
Gwynn with 10,232 PA and 434 Ks (1K in 23.6 PA).
DiMaggio with 7,672 PA and 369 Ks (1K in 20.8 PA).
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DiMaggio's low strikeout totals are fantastic. But any comparison to Hammerin' Hank is irrelevant. 'Home run hitters' notoriously strikeout at a much higher rate than guys with lower HR totals. A much better comparison would be a guy like Tony Gwynn or Wade Boggs. Gwynn in particular compares very favorably to DiMaggio. To wit:
Best season in terms of fewest Ks - slight edge to DiMaggio:
1995: Gwynn played 135 games and had 577 plate appearances and 14 strikeouts (1K in 41.2 PA).
1941: DiMaggio played 139 games and had 541 plate appearances and 13 strikeouts (1K in 41.6 PA).
Overall career - edge to Gwynn:
Gwynn with 10,232 PA and 434 Ks (1K in 23.6 PA).
DiMaggio with 7,672 PA and 369 Ks (1K in 20.8 PA).
DiMaggio hit 361 HRs in an era of massive stadiums - including his own. But twice lead the league in HRs. Slugged .579 during his career.
Gwynn hit 125 HRs. Slugged .459.
They aren't comparable players at all.
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Why? Is there some evidence that his death was a vaccine reaction?
The simple reality is that 86-year old guys die pretty regularly. In fact, by making it to 86, Aaron outlived life expectancy for an American male by 10 years. And as an African-American, he outlived his life expectancy by 17 years. Unless there is some direct evidence that it was vaccine-related, I suspect it's just an elderly man dying.
Everything I’ve read is he had a stroke.
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An example of a player that has hit a lot of Home Runs (662) but who has walked more times than he has struck out, is Albert Pujols. 1331 walks 1304 K’s.
Hank Aaron 755 HR’s. 1402 walks. 1383 K’s.
Similar to Aaron, Pujols has never struck out 100 times in a season.
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I agree. Bonds was a great player destined for the Hall of Fame before he apparently started juicing. Why he chose to sully his legacy at that point is beyond me.
Same reason as Brady Anderson, Eric Gagne, Sosa, Clemons, McGwire, the entire 1989 Texas Rangers team, etc., etc.
$$
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An example of a player that has hit a lot of Home Runs (662) but who has walked more times than he has struck out, is Albert Pujols. 1331 walks 1304 K’s.
Hank Aaron 755 HR’s. 1402 walks. 1383 K’s.
Similar to Aaron, Pujols has never struck out 100 times in a season.
Pujols is much more Bonds than Aaron.
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Pujols is much more Bonds than Aaron.
Pujols is Pujols. Bonds is Bonds. Aaron is Aaron. They are all different players. There was some discussion of players that have hit a lot of home runs that walk more than strike out.
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How in the world did Aaron hit cross handed? I didn't realize he learned that way and then switched his grip early in his career.
He started it as a kid when his family was too poor to buy him a bat or ball. He used a stick and would hit rocks and bottle caps. Once he started getting coaching, he changed his grip.
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An example of a player that has hit a lot of Home Runs (662) but who has walked more times than he has struck out, is Albert Pujols. 1331 walks 1304 K’s.
Hank Aaron 755 HR’s. 1402 walks. 1383 K’s.
Similar to Aaron, Pujols has never struck out 100 times in a season.
Frank Thomas walked about 300 more times than he Kd in his career. He struck out 100 times twice. But .419 career OBP.
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Frank Thomas walked about 300 more times than he Kd in his career. He struck out 100 times twice. But .419 career OBP.
Yep, Thomas is in that little higher walk rate type of player than Aaron or Pujols.
Stan Musial comes to mind. Stan Musial walked 903 times more than he struck out, and still managed 475 Home Runs. Most K's he ever had in a season was 46.
Babe Ruth and Ted Williams would possibly be the best numbers with that stat. Mickey Mantle would have done it. Lou Gehrig. Others. More walks than K's, sub 100 K seasons, and power.
Chipper Jones would be another modern era player to do it with 468 HR's. I believe Carl Yastrzemski did it and would be would be in that mid to upper 400's Home Runs similar to Jones.
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DiMaggio hit 361 HRs in an era of massive stadiums - including his own. But twice lead the league in HRs. Slugged .579 during his career.
Gwynn hit 125 HRs. Slugged .459.
They aren't comparable players at all.
Not saying they're comparable...but DiMaggio and Aaron are even less comparable, and DiMaggio was not someone most would call a 'home run hitter.' Consider this: The HR gap between Aaron and DiMaggio is almost twice as big as the gap between DiMaggio and Gwynn.
He was a great hitter with decent power...but not a 'home run hitter.'
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Not saying they're comparable...but DiMaggio and Aaron are even less comparable, and DiMaggio was not someone most would call a 'home run hitter.' Consider this: The HR gap between Aaron and DiMaggio is almost twice as big as the gap between DiMaggio and Gwynn.
He was a great hitter with decent power...but not a 'home run hitter.'
I mean you literally compared them by placing their stats next to one another and giving Gwynn an edge.
Yes DiMaggio wasn’t a “home run hitter” even though he lead the league in HRs once. But he was a much more powerful hitter than Gwynn.
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I mean you literally compared them by placing their stats next to one another and giving Gwynn an edge.
Yes DiMaggio wasn’t a “home run hitter” even though he lead the league in HRs once. But he was a much more powerful hitter than Gwynn.
I put their stats next to one another in response to a post that called DiMaggio a home run hitter.
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Pujols is Pujols. Bonds is Bonds. Aaron is Aaron. They are all different players. There was some discussion of players that have hit a lot of home runs that walk more than strike out.
Right. Pujols, Mac, Bonds all homered and walked a lot. They also took a lot of anabolic steroids. Aaron walked and homered a lot without science helping him.
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Hank on the 1957 Season
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltu_2s6iHeM
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I put their stats next to one another in response to a post that called DiMaggio a home run hitter.
So you didn't really compare someone to someone else when you put their stats next to one another.
Ok. ::) ::) ::)
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Right. Pujols, Mac, Bonds all homered and walked a lot. They also took a lot of anabolic steroids. Aaron walked and homered a lot without science helping him.
Pujols has never been linked to steroids. Griffey Jr. , Thome, Thomas haven't been linked to them as well.
Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, Palmeiro, Manny Ramirez, David Ortiz, Gary Sheffield, Alex Rodriguez, are some 500 HR players who have been linked to p.e.d.s.
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So you didn't really compare someone to someone else when you put their stats next to one another.
Ok. ::) ::) ::)
It was hyperbole to show that the other statement was equally ridiculous. Come on fluffy, you understand that.
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Some fun numbers from The Athletic.
His average season over those two decades from 1955-1974: .311/.379/.572/.951, with 36 home runs. Mike Trout has had exactly one season in his career in which he beat that slash line, with that many home runs. Hammerin‘ Hank had 20 seasons as That Guy.
Aaron’s OPS in his 20s: .947
Aaron’s OPS in his 30s: .948
He was the most dependable superstar on earth — year in, year out … and decade in, decade out.
Only three players ever had double-digit homers in both their age 20 and age 40 seasons:
Willie Mays, Ted Williams, Hank Aaron
Hank Aaron played in 25 All-Star Games. That is the most in history. The 3 active players who have appeared in the most All-Star Games are Trout, Kershaw and Verlander. They’ve played in 8 apiece. Which means that the 3 most celebrated All-Stars of this era have played in fewer All-Star Games combined (24) than Aaron played in all by himself.
MOST CONSECUTIVE SEASONS, UNDER 100 K’S, 300+ PA
Hank Aaron: 23
Carl Yastrzemski: 23
Pete Rose: 23
At age 40, in 1974, Aaron had a 20-homer season in which he struck out just 29 times? The last time anybody struck out fewer than 30 times in a season in which he hit at least 20 home runs? 4 decades ago, when George Brett had 24 homers, 22 K’s in 1980.
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The great Milwaukee Braves team had not only Henry Aaron but also Warren Spahn who holds the record for most wins by a left hander and most wins in the live ball era (since 1920) at 363 . In addition Eddie Mathews is considered among the top 5 third basemen of all time.
A lot of star power in the city at one time.
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Mathews was the only starter (player?) that played in Boston, Milwaukee and Atlanta for the Braves. Also won a World Series as a bench player with the '68 Tigers.
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The great Milwaukee Braves team had not only Henry Aaron but also Warren Spahn who holds the record for most wins by a left hander and most wins in the live ball era (since 1920) at 363 . In addition Eddie Mathews is considered among the top 5 third basemen of all time.
A lot of star power in the city at one time.
Eddie was Aaron's best friend on the team and always stood up for him in racial situations. Joe Adcock - the big 1st baseman - on the other hand, was a stone cold racist.
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Mathews was the only starter (player?) that played in Boston, Milwaukee and Atlanta for the Braves. Also won a World Series as a bench player with the '68 Tigers.
I saw Mathews last career hit in the 68 series.
https://www.jsonline.com/story/life/green-sheet/2018/10/23/milwaukee-braves-great-eddie-mathews-last-bat-1968-world-series-detroit-tigers-cardinals-bob-gibson/1672082002/
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Some fun numbers from The Athletic.
His average season over those two decades from 1955-1974: .311/.379/.572/.951, with 36 home runs. Mike Trout has had exactly one season in his career in which he beat that slash line, with that many home runs. Hammerin‘ Hank had 20 seasons as That Guy.
Aaron’s OPS in his 20s: .947
Aaron’s OPS in his 30s: .948
He was the most dependable superstar on earth — year in, year out … and decade in, decade out.
Only three players ever had double-digit homers in both their age 20 and age 40 seasons:
Willie Mays, Ted Williams, Hank Aaron
Hank Aaron played in 25 All-Star Games. That is the most in history. The 3 active players who have appeared in the most All-Star Games are Trout, Kershaw and Verlander. They’ve played in 8 apiece. Which means that the 3 most celebrated All-Stars of this era have played in fewer All-Star Games combined (24) than Aaron played in all by himself.
MOST CONSECUTIVE SEASONS, UNDER 100 K’S, 300+ PA
Hank Aaron: 23
Carl Yastrzemski: 23
Pete Rose: 23
At age 40, in 1974, Aaron had a 20-homer season in which he struck out just 29 times? The last time anybody struck out fewer than 30 times in a season in which he hit at least 20 home runs? 4 decades ago, when George Brett had 24 homers, 22 K’s in 1980.
That level of consistency and longevity is astonishing, and the number of All-Star Game appearances also makes Hank the clear winner in all major sports in the US.
Kareem and Kobe lead the NBA with 19 and 18 respectively, with a few players at 15. The presumptive GOAT - Michael - had 14.
In the NFL, a handful of players have 14 Pro Bowl selections.
In the NHL, Gordie Howe is close to Hank with 23. The next highest is Ray Bourque with 19, and the presumptive GOAT - Gretzky - has 18.
I am truly lucky to have seen Hank play in person when he was with the Brewers. Even though he was slowing down (and playing DH), I had seen him on TV in his chase of the record and watched #715, so even pre-teen me knew I was watching a historically-great player.
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Some fun numbers from The Athletic.
His average season over those two decades from 1955-1974: .311/.379/.572/.951, with 36 home runs. Mike Trout has had exactly one season in his career in which he beat that slash line, with that many home runs. Hammerin‘ Hank had 20 seasons as That Guy.
Aaron’s OPS in his 20s: .947
Aaron’s OPS in his 30s: .948
He was the most dependable superstar on earth — year in, year out … and decade in, decade out.
Only three players ever had double-digit homers in both their age 20 and age 40 seasons:
Willie Mays, Ted Williams, Hank Aaron
Hank Aaron played in 25 All-Star Games. That is the most in history. The 3 active players who have appeared in the most All-Star Games are Trout, Kershaw and Verlander. They’ve played in 8 apiece. Which means that the 3 most celebrated All-Stars of this era have played in fewer All-Star Games combined (24) than Aaron played in all by himself.
MOST CONSECUTIVE SEASONS, UNDER 100 K’S, 300+ PA
Hank Aaron: 23
Carl Yastrzemski: 23
Pete Rose: 23
At age 40, in 1974, Aaron had a 20-homer season in which he struck out just 29 times? The last time anybody struck out fewer than 30 times in a season in which he hit at least 20 home runs? 4 decades ago, when George Brett had 24 homers, 22 K’s in 1980.
You could do this in several categories with Hank Aaron. You mentioned George Brett in an example.
All time players with at least:
.300 avg
300 HR's
3,000 Hits
Hank Aaron, George Brett, Willie Mays, Stan Musial. (Pujols is at .299)
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Pujols has never been linked to steroids.
Tell that to former-Cardinal Jack Clark.
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Tell that to former-Cardinal Jack Clark.
Jack Clark was a Cardinal when Pujols was a baby.
He also retracted his statement after Pujols threatened a suit.
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Not saying they're comparable...but DiMaggio and Aaron are even less comparable, and DiMaggio was not someone most would call a 'home run hitter.' Consider this: The HR gap between Aaron and DiMaggio is almost twice as big as the gap between DiMaggio and Gwynn.
He was a great hitter with decent power...but not a 'home run hitter.'
I respectfully disagree, and I believe you are looking at career HR totals too much.
Hank averaged 37 HR per 162 games. DiMag averaged 34 HR per 162 games. Gwynn averaged 9 HR per 162 games. Hank and DiMag are not "even less comparable" than DiMag and Gwynn.
DiMag lost 3 years of his prime to WW2 and played only 13 seasons. He also played his entire career in a ballpark that was notoriously difficult for right-handed HR hitters. And yet he led his league twice in HR and had seven seasons of 30+ HR. He was a great power hitter in addition to being a great hitter, period.
Hank also was a great power hitter and a great hitter. He also played 10 more seasons and didn't have to take a 3-year break in the middle of his career. He also played in two hitter-friendly ballparks, including a famous bandbox in Atlanta.
Again, Hank averaged only 3 HR more per 162 games than DiMag did.
And so I will repeat: DiMag struck out ridiculously few times for a home-run hitter.
Gwynn? Great hitter but his name really never should have been introduced in this discussion. His game was nothing like either of theirs. Nothing.
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I respectfully disagree, and I believe you are looking at career HR totals too much.
Hank averaged 37 HR per 162 games. DiMag averaged 34 HR per 162 games. Gwynn averaged 9 HR per 162 games. Hank and DiMag are not "even less comparable" than DiMag and Gwynn.
DiMag lost 3 years of his prime to WW2 and played only 13 seasons. He also played his entire career in a ballpark that was notoriously difficult for right-handed HR hitters. And yet he led his league twice in HR and had seven seasons of 30+ HR. He was a great power hitter in addition to being a great hitter, period.
Hank also was a great power hitter and a great hitter. He also played 10 more seasons and didn't have to take a 3-year break in the middle of his career. He also played in two hitter-friendly ballparks, including a famous bandbox in Atlanta.
Again, Hank averaged only 3 HR more per 162 games than DiMag did.
And so I will repeat: DiMag struck out ridiculously few times for a home-run hitter.
Gwynn? Great hitter but his name really never should have been introduced in this discussion. His game was nothing like either of theirs. Nothing.
Mike
When you’re right, you’re right. This argument isn’t any closer than Hank’s and TG’s power numbers. Gooooo should make his concession speech and be done with it.
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One interesting thing about Henry's career, is that over time his accomplishments became more appreciated by the general public and media.
During the prime of his career Henry was always classified with Mays and Mantle, but was somewhat in the third position.
In addition, In the early part of Henrys career Ernie Banks was on a monster run. Similarly Roberto Clemente got a lot of attention in the mid to late part of Henrys career for his incredible achievements.
Dimaggio had not been retired very long ,and Ted Williams and Stan Musial were still posting incredible numbers in the early part of Henrys career and at historically old ages. So it was hard for Henry in the early part of his career to be classified with them.
Finally Pete Rose and his various achievements were also starting to take off at the end of Henrys career.
I think the tide started to turn in Henrys favor when he built a strong foundation of credibility with the grace he handled the chase for Babes Record.
Also Willie Mays ended his career with the Mets in very poor playing form. Unfortunately for him this was in the public eye since he was in New York and the Mets were on TV a lot then. Hank was able to end his career modestly in Milwaukee not in the public eye as much. Ernie Banks also did a long slow decline after his monstrous start of a career , which somewhat took the gloss of his career.
Rose had all sorts of off field problems that shrouded his legacy as the heir to Ty Cobb. Similarly the off field post career hurt Mantle who died young from hard living. Clemente died early but was not in a major market so many did not really see his greatness until the last few years of his career when the Pirates where taking off.
Finally, I think Ted Williams and Stan Musial became more classified in the generational era of DiMaggio after they retired.
So Hank was somewhat of the last great player standing and his consistency of incredible seasons year after year really started to sink in. Modern day access to statistics etc have borne out his greatness in addition to the eye test of yesteryear.
I cant specifically say where Hank rates in terms of the all time greats, but I think his career is now safely in the discussion of top 5, where he is the top player of his generation and can be compared to those who were the top players of their generations.
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Hank was also hampered by lack of team success. The Braves accomplished very little after 1958.
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I respectfully disagree, and I believe you are looking at career HR totals too much.
Hank averaged 37 HR per 162 games. DiMag averaged 34 HR per 162 games. Gwynn averaged 9 HR per 162 games. Hank and DiMag are not "even less comparable" than DiMag and Gwynn.
DiMag lost 3 years of his prime to WW2 and played only 13 seasons. He also played his entire career in a ballpark that was notoriously difficult for right-handed HR hitters. And yet he led his league twice in HR and had seven seasons of 30+ HR. He was a great power hitter in addition to being a great hitter, period.
Hank also was a great power hitter and a great hitter. He also played 10 more seasons and didn't have to take a 3-year break in the middle of his career. He also played in two hitter-friendly ballparks, including a famous bandbox in Atlanta.
Again, Hank averaged only 3 HR more per 162 games than DiMag did.
And so I will repeat: DiMag struck out ridiculously few times for a home-run hitter.
Gwynn? Great hitter but his name really never should have been introduced in this discussion. His game was nothing like either of theirs. Nothing.
Fair points, but extrapolating on the assumption that more games and more at bats would have resulted in more success is speculative at best. At the end of the day, DiMaggio’s career home run total is far closer to Tony Gwynn’s than it is to Hank Aaron’s.
DiMaggio may not have been a Tony Gwynn, but he is certainly no Hank Aaron either.
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Fair points, but extrapolating on the assumption that more games and more at bats would have resulted in more success is speculative at best. At the end of the day, DiMaggio’s career home run total is far closer to Tony Gwynn’s than it is to Hank Aaron’s.
DiMaggio may not have been a Tony Gwynn, but he is certainly no Hank Aaron either.
Nor did I say he was.
Otherwise, I’ll let it go, and wish you a good night.
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Nor did I say he was.
Otherwise, I’ll let it go, and wish you a good night.
👍
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Really, really good article on what Hank meant to Black Milwaukee
https://slate.com/culture/2021/03/hank-aaron-black-milwaukee-civil-rights-vel-phillips.html