Greg

[MuMark]

I know the whole point of the board is to talk about MU hoops and that a lot of that will revolve around hypotheticals, but with that said, I really wish we could stop focusing on what we could/should/would be if we had Greg this year. He was a good enough role player last year, but then again, so was Jamal. If anything, Jamal probably looked more comfortable than Greg by the end of last season, and now he's having a hard time finding his role this year. What makes so many think that Greg would be so different?

We're a darn good team this year with the guys who have been on the floor. Everyone has done a great job of stepping up when they needed to, and that has made this team awfully dangerous. We aren't hurting for an extra guy right now. And hopefully we'll continue to see development from Brendan, see Joe continue to build his confidence, and see Sacar find his rhythm on offense.

If anything, what we need the most right now is Jamal, not Greg. If we can get Jamal back to his Big East form from last season, that makes us very capable of a deep run. And that's a heckuva lot more likely than burning Greg's redshirt.

Wojo said "Greg would have been a starter this season....he was playing that well when he got hurt."

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Cain over Sacar?

Many, many lulz

He means Eli Cain.  Which is very legitimate.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Appreciate the opinion.  If u feel gage is the PG for depaul then hands down i take cain over sacar at the 2

Point is we r weak at the 2, very weak at a position that is usually a strength for teams.  Mu82 wants to mother hen sacar and say he is good, but hes not.  I hadnt said anything about sacar in a while until another clunker vs depaul.  After x only thing i said was kudos to him on his fts. Additionally on numerous occasions ive stated that i was incorrect in saying sacar was the worst 2 in the BE, 82 will not recognize that. His jouralistic nature has him on an agenda.  I have now on many ocassions in response the his hypocritical rants stated that hes not the worst but is near the worst.  Im sure hes a great kid n seems like a spectacular teammate.  His skill level is simply quite poor

Eli Cain over Anim, definitely.  But when they are fully healthy,  the starting 2G is Jalen Coleman Lands with Cain shifting to the 3. I would take Anim over JCL.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I know the whole point of the board is to talk about MU hoops and that a lot of that will revolve around hypotheticals, but with that said, I really wish we could stop focusing on what we could/should/would be if we had Greg this year. He was a good enough role player last year, but then again, so was Jamal. If anything, Jamal probably looked more comfortable than Greg by the end of last season, and now he's having a hard time finding his role this year. What makes so many think that Greg would be so different?

We're a darn good team this year with the guys who have been on the floor. Everyone has done a great job of stepping up when they needed to, and that has made this team awfully dangerous. We aren't hurting for an extra guy right now. And hopefully we'll continue to see development from Brendan, see Joe continue to build his confidence, and see Sacar find his rhythm on offense.

If anything, what we need the most right now is Jamal, not Greg. If we can get Jamal back to his Big East form from last season, that makes us very capable of a deep run. And that's a heckuva lot more likely than burning Greg's redshirt.

Personally,  I thought Greg was a lot better than Cain last season. Think he would be the 6th man for this team earning around 20 minutes a game.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I don't really get the insistence on using an outdated labeling system.  If we use this labeling system, we have a top half (in conference) C in Theo, a top three or four PF in Joey, a top one or two SF in Sam, a top one or two SG in Markus, and a bottom three or four PG in Chartouny.   We don't start our one spot where we're below average, which causes Markus to slide over and play out of position, which makes Sacar slide over and play out of position.  If you want to say that Sacar is a below average SG that's fine, and I would agree, since that's not his position.

Personally,  I'm OK with the 1 -5 labeling system. I just think people have outdated ideas of what each position is supposed to do. In my head,  I also assign 1-5 based on what kind of players the individual can defend

[skianth16]

Wojo said "Greg would have been a starter this season....he was playing that well when he got hurt."

Honestly, I don't think I buy that. I think that's a coach saying what he needs to say to motivate his guys. It's possible that Greg could have been ahead of Sacar, but I don't think Greg would be getting the 30 mpg that Sacar is getting now.

Also remember that Wojo also said Harry Froling was going to be a real game changer last year, so maybe we should take some of the comments made to the media with a grain of salt at times.

[Its DJOver]

Personally,  I'm OK with the 1 -5 labeling system. I just think people have outdated ideas of what each position is supposed to do. In my head,  I also assign 1-5 based on what kind of players the individual can defend

I don't have a problem with that, but there's this mentality that someone "is" a position, that it's static, when it's really fluid.  Just look at last year's starting line-up to this years.  Last year, Markus played off the ball which would make him a "2", that would have made Sacar a "3", and Sam a "4".   Now, Markus is our primary ball handler, a "1", Sacar is off the ball, a "2", and Sam is the smallest of three front court players, a "3".   There's a reason that most rosters only list guard, forward, and center, and not PG, SG, SF, PF, and C.

[BCHoopster]

Honestly, I don't think I buy that. I think that's a coach saying what he needs to say to motivate his guys. It's possible that Greg could have been ahead of Sacar, but I don't think Greg would be getting the 30 mpg that Sacar is getting now.

Also remember that Wojo also said Harry Froling was going to be a real game changer last year, so maybe we should take some of the comments made to the media with a grain of salt at times.

Greg maybe the 4th guard next year, Howard, McEven and Sacar.  He might only get 10 minutes a game.  He has 10 months to show what he can do.  Last year he was
hurt, for sure could not play point at all.  Not sure he will be needed next year.  But on the D end in crunch time, he will be in with McEven or Sacar or sure.  Quick and
long length.  More importantly he has 2 years left after next year and I could see him starting at the 2 guard.

[MuMark]

Greg can defend.....he can shoot and make 3 point shots with confidence....good free throw shooter who can be in the game at crunch time........good rebounder.......unselfish glue guy who makes others better.

Areas of improvement for him last year as with most freshmen....needed to get stronger....and turned it over too much........some of it related to decision making and some I'm sure to his injury.

Can't wait to have him back next season to be a rotation piece with Kobe, Markus and Sacar.

[Shooter McGavin]

Personally,  I thought Greg was a lot better than Cain last season. Think he would be the 6th man for this team earning around 20 minutes a game.

Totally agree with this.  Greg did all the little things it takes to win and had skill and athleticism.  Love the fact that we will have him for three more years but would have been nice to see him on this team as well.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

If you publicly stated that you were WAAAAAAY over the top in saying Sacar was the worst 2 in the BE by far, I missed it. So I'm glad you have apologized for being so wrong that it rendered you impossible to take seriously on any basketball subject.

For the record, here are my thoughts about Sacar:

Although Sacar is pretty good at beating his defender and getting into the lane -- kind of a JJJ Lite -- he is not a reliable scorer because he's neither a very good finisher nor a good outside shooter. So he is capable of putting up 15 for us, as he has on many occasions, but also is capable of laying a goose egg.

But because he is a superb defender and a "hustle player" -- in other words, the classic "glue guy" -- there is a role for him on a team that starts three gifted scorers. He is the kind of player most coaches love, and it's easy to see why Wojo thinks he fits on this team. Having said that, it's obvious that Wojo has no problem giving Bailey a chance when Sacar is really struggling, and leaving Bailey in when he's playing well. Which is very smart of Wojo.

Do I wish we had the best 2 in the BEast? Sure. But it's unrealistic to expect to have the best player at every position. Am I upset that we have a defensive-minded 2 who is a good team player, who has bought into Wojo's system and who has personally contributed to us being one of the most improved defensive teams in the country? Not in the least.

It's like a baseball team that has great hitters at first base, second base and third base; it can afford to play a great defensive shortstop who only occasionally delivers on offense, and it can win a LOT of games with that infield.

I don't believe that all of the above means I am an "apologist" for Sacar or that I fail to recognize his limitations. If you feel otherwise, I can live with that because you have demonstrated repeatedly that you are a person who just fires out the first words that come into your head rather than actually thinking before you post.

Bottom line: You said Sacar was "not very good" and called him "the worst 2 in the BE by far." Those were your words, nobody else's, and I called you out for them being as dopey as your rants about Luke being the worst. Ever since, you resorted to personal attacks against me -- including one particularly nasty comment that earned you a Scoop-cation -- because you realized you couldn't make an intelligent argument for Sacar being as bad as you claimed. Now you say you have softened your stance on Sacar -- that he's merely bad and not the worst in the BE by far -- and we're supposed to congratulate you? All righty then.

Agree with much of what u say however to label sacar a superb defender is ludicrous.  He is average, maybe a little above average, but a poor rebounder.    He is an average defender and below average on offense.  Putting him 7th -8th ranked 2 in the BE.  His effort is great and he is the best we have.
I will make no argument that we should be playing someone else his minutes.  Its just unfortunate Greg got hurt and that maybe we werent able to land a more talented 2 in wojos first few recruiting classes.  Had we a better 2 we would be even more dangerous. 
My feelings on sacar, therefore are nothing like those of Luke.  My arguments on Luke, unlike sacar was that we werent playing the best player for our team fit, for our team to be successful.  That bore fruit when Wojo made the switch and our team took off and secured an NCAA bid with Matt starting at the 5

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Greg maybe the 4th guard next year, Howard, McEven and Sacar.  He might only get 10 minutes a game.  He has 10 months to show what he can do.  Last year he was
hurt, for sure could not play point at all.  Not sure he will be needed next year.  But on the D end in crunch time, he will be in with McEven or Sacar or sure.  Quick and
long length.  More importantly he has 2 years left after next year and I could see him starting at the 2 guard.

You will need to go back n watch many of tge late season BE games from last yr.  Greg finushed the season really well

[MU82]

Agree with much of what u say however to label sacar a superb defender is ludicrous.  He is average, maybe a little above average, but a poor rebounder.    He is an average defender and below average on offense.  Putting him 7th -8th ranked 2 in the BE.  His effort is great and he is the best we have.
I will make no argument that we should be playing someone else his minutes.  Its just unfortunate Greg got hurt and that maybe we werent able to land a more talented 2 in wojos first few recruiting classes.  Had we a better 2 we would be even more dangerous. 
My feelings on sacar, therefore are nothing like those of Luke.  My arguments on Luke, unlike sacar was that we werent playing the best player for our team fit, for our team to be successful.  That bore fruit when Wojo made the switch and our team took off and secured an NCAA bid with Matt starting at the 5

Aside from disagreeing with you on Sacar's defense -- I think he is well above average -- I'll let this die now. Glad you have toned down your anti-Sacar rhetoric. Have a nice day.

[Herman Cain]

You will need to go back n watch many of tge late season BE games from last yr.  Greg finushed the season really well

The point I agree with you on is that Greg would have gotten quite a few of Sacars minutes. When healthy Greg is a guy the coaches were going to want on the floor as much as possible. His length, speed and unselfish play was ideal when you consider who the other players on the floor are.

That said I do not view Sacar as a liability the way you do. Teams like ours that have plus shooters like Markus and The Hausers need a guy like Sacar who is not ball dominant. That is the whole team chemistry piece that maybe is not being given a high enough waiting in your analysis. I think your focusing on the bricks that Sacar throws up a little too much and not enough on what he does defensively. I am pretty confident the coaches will take that 3 point green light away at some point as we get closer to the tournament.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I don't have a problem with that, but there's this mentality that someone "is" a position, that it's static, when it's really fluid.  Just look at last year's starting line-up to this years.  Last year, Markus played off the ball which would make him a "2", that would have made Sacar a "3", and Sam a "4".   Now, Markus is our primary ball handler, a "1", Sacar is off the ball, a "2", and Sam is the smallest of three front court players, a "3".   There's a reason that most rosters only list guard, forward, and center, and not PG, SG, SF, PF, and C.

Oh for sure.  I only ever think about it in the context of "he is the 1/2/3/4/5 in this lineup. There are very few players who can truly only play one position

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

In many offenses we will have a primary ball handler, two wings and two post players.  The wings are indistinguishable as are the bigs. Still label them 1-5.  Is it right or wrong, idk its just what we do. Helps kids helps the coaches too” go in for sam at the 5, or your the 4.”
Kinda splitting hairs anyway and i think its common with most teams 

[Slim]

Oh for sure.  I only ever think about it in the context of "he is the 1/2/3/4/5 in this lineup. There are very few players who can truly only play one position

In the context of Sam?

[LoudMouth]

Not sure if anyone noticed but there were multiple big shots made last night that after the ball went in and our bench was up and cheering Greg was looking at the Butler student section and chirping...
Love the confidence of it but sure hope he can back it up next year when he is back

[wadesworld]

Not sure if anyone noticed but there were multiple big shots made last night that after the ball went in and our bench was up and cheering Greg was looking at the Butler student section and chirping...
Love the confidence of it but sure hope he can back it up next year when he is back

Rowsey definitely took Greg under his wing.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Rowsey definitely took Greg under his wing.

If you go look at his old highlight vids, he's never been one to shy away from talking.

[Markusquette]

If you go look at his old highlight vids, he's never been one to shy away from talking.

I thought Greg was a lot more confident and active than Cain last year. Jamal plays like he's scared of making the same mistakes over and over again. Elliott definitely plays with some edge and spirit. Think he's going to fit in very well next year.

[skianth16]

I thought Greg was a lot more confident and active than Cain last year. Jamal plays like he's scared of making the same mistakes over and over again. Elliott definitely plays with some edge and spirit. Think he's going to fit in very well next year.

I think Greg will be a valuable role player next year. But he'll have to fight his way up the pecking order to get his minutes. We're seeing now how minute allocation is much, much different than we thought heading into the year, and I wouldn't be surprised to see a 7-8 man core rotation next year too. We'll have seniority and depth, and we'll have high expectations. This will be re-hashed several dozen times between now and October, but I'm guessing Greg's role is still a bit up in the air for next year.

[Norm]

Greg and Jamal's stats from last year:

Greg: 35 games, 4 starts. 639 min, 18.3 avg. 54-107 FG (50.5%), 11-30 3P (36.7%), 38-48 FTs (79.2%), 157 points, 4.5 avg. 81 rebounds (23 offense, 58 defense), 48 assists, 30 turnovers, 24 blocks, 30 steals.

Jamal: 34 games, 0 starts. 584 min, 17.2 avg. 59-122 FG (48.4%), 26-55 3P (47.3%), 11-23 FT (47.8%), 155 points, 4.6 avg. 114 rebounds (30 offense, 84 defense), 22 assists, 37 turnovers, 12 blocks, 28 steals.