Vaccine/Antibody updates

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

A disability group is suing the state of Connecticut because they didn't include a carve out for people with disabilities in one of the earlier phases.  Article in yesterday's paper explained how they came to the strictly age based plan except for the teacher carve out.

Based on the first few weeks and experience witnessed from other states, Connecticut noticed the simpler the plan the faster and more people you can vaccinate.
If you added carve outs it put way too many people in a phase plus it was difficult to verify some of the disabilities that would just slow things down.
It also added to many questions.  If we vaccinate transit workers does that include Uber and Lyft?
It we vaccinate USPS employees, shouldn't we vaccinate FedEx and UPS workers?
Does grocery store workers mean convenience store workers, etc?

[tower912]

Get a plan, work the plan.  All of this becomes moot as production ramps up.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

A disability group is suing the state of Connecticut because they didn't include a carve out for people with disabilities in one of the earlier phases.  Article in yesterday's paper explained how they came to the strictly age based plan except for the teacher carve out.

Based on the first few weeks and experience witnessed from other states, Connecticut noticed the simpler the plan the faster and more people you can vaccinate.
If you added carve outs it put way too many people in a phase plus it was difficult to verify some of the disabilities that would just slow things down.
It also added to many questions.  If we vaccinate transit workers does that include Uber and Lyft?
It we vaccinate USPS employees, shouldn't we vaccinate FedEx and UPS workers?
Does grocery store workers mean convenience store workers, etc?

It was a smart move to simplify.  There would have been exclusion complaints and maybe lawsuits no matter where the line was drawn.  As long as no hiccups in supply, this will be over before anything can be fully litigated.

[GooooMarquette]

It was a smart move to simplify.  There would have been exclusion complaints and maybe lawsuits no matter where the line was drawn.  As long as no hiccups in supply, this will be over before anything can be fully litigated.

Agree. Simplicity is good. I wish more states were following CT's lead.

And the alternative they're using in most states - complicated schemes based on jobs, types of living arrangements, medical conditions, etc. - opens a Pandora's box of complicated questions, and rife with opportunities to game the system. What if someone comes in claiming a medical condition, but refuses to provide evidence of it? What if someone knows the manager of a grocery store and gets 'hired' just to get an earlier shot? What if I (a lifelong non-smoker) claim I just started smoking so I get priority?

Once they get past the healthcare workers, nursing home residents and teachers, it's easier - and FASTER - just to use a single, easily documented criterion.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

By the way I felt differently about that early on but now that it’s becoming more about throughput instead of supply constraint, I think that just changes this whole thing. 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Agree. Simplicity is good. I wish more states were following CT's lead.

And the alternative they're using in most states - complicated schemes based on jobs, types of living arrangements, medical conditions, etc. - opens a Pandora's box of complicated questions, and rife with opportunities to game the system. What if someone comes in claiming a medical condition, but refuses to provide evidence of it? What if someone knows the manager of a grocery store and gets 'hired' just to get an earlier shot? What if I (a lifelong non-smoker) claim I just started smoking so I get priority?

Once they get past the healthcare workers, nursing home residents and teachers, it's easier - and FASTER - just to use a single, easily documented criterion.

Right. The alternative is create a bunch of busy work that creates all sorts of backlogs. We just need to trust that people will wait their turn. Will some skip?  Undoubtedly. But the alternative of providing documentation is much worse.

[Warriors4ever]

I agree. I joined a FB group yesterday called Chicago Vaccine Hunters ( there is one for Milwaukee too) trying to get info for people. The Illinois expansion into phase 1b+ is causing mass confusion and causing seniors who aren’t that tech savvy to despair. Some counties in the Chicago area opted out, but the private providers like pharmacies are following state guidelines in some cases not county. So 1b+, people with pre-existing conditions younger than 65, are all over the place trying to get appointments in the city, being told to answer ‘yes’ to whether they are eligible in their county when they aren’t, some places ask for documentation while others don’t....it’s a mess. The honor system doesn’t work.  And if you raise that issue even a teeny bit, people think you want them dead.
The simpler the better. Always.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

It was a smart move to simplify.  There would have been exclusion complaints and maybe lawsuits no matter where the line was drawn.  As long as no hiccups in supply, this will be over before anything can be fully litigated.

I totally agree.  The faster people are vaccinated the sooner we all benefit.

Plus it follows one of the dictums I learned in Marquette Engineering School.

KISS Principle - Keep it simple stupid!

[GooooMarquette]

J&J vaccine officially given emergency use authorization by FDA. Not surprising given the news from the last few days, but another huge win for science and the world.

This will help in the US, especially in rural areas and communities where follow-up is a challenge, and be an absolute game-changer in lower income countries.

[4everwarriors]

If science is real, why the angst about contracting covid after being vaccinated? Either you trust science and the vaccine is 95% effective or science isn't real, hey?

[GooooMarquette]

If science is real, why the angst about contracting covid after being vaccinated? Either you trust science and the vaccine is 95% effective or science isn't real, hey?

As your post says, it isn’t 100% effective. So people who have been vaccinated can still contract even the original virus. And we don’t know how effective the vaccine is against emerging strains, so it would be perfectly reasonable to be anxious about the possibility of weaker immunity against them as well. And then there is the chance of carrying and transmitting the virus to friends or loved ones.

[4everwarriors]

Strongly disagree. Even with 95% immunity, you have a 99% chance of surviving covid , if you contract it. Pretty good odds, wouldn't you say? Those who are skeptical and/or afraid need to do whatever makes them comfortable. Just don't impose any restrictions on the rest of us who are vaccinated or willing to live "normally." Life is a gamble every day. People die in their sleep or can die during sexual intercourse. So, pick your poison. Carrying on, as we have for nearly a year now is crazy. Time to end this nonsense and all that goes with it.

[GooooMarquette]

Strongly disagree. Even with 95% immunity, you have a 99% chance of surviving covid , if you contract it. Pretty good odds, wouldn't you say?

Again, you are just talking about the original variant. It is likely less effective  against some of the other current variants. And we don’t yet know how effective it will be against variants that evolve over the coming months.

And of course you ignored the my comment about the possibility of carrying the virus and passing it on to friends or loved ones.

It’s hard for people to prevent you from going out and doing stupid stuff if you are so inclined. But don’t expect everyone else to follow.

[4everwarriors]

Let me clarify in a way many of you should understand. Science is real, aina? So, once vaccinated, its time to eliminate the absurdity. As I said, those who still insist on staying in their hidey hole, you be you. The rest of us want no part of this craziness any more.

[wadesworld]

Let me clarify in a way many of you should understand. Science is real, aina? So, once vaccinated, its time to eliminate the absurdity. As I said, those who still insist on staying in their hidey hole, you be you. The rest of us want no part of this craziness any more.

Once we have herd immunity, yes. We aren’t close to that right now. But thankfully due to what transpired in November, we’ll get there much faster than we would’ve with 4 more years of the Orange dude, aina?

[rocky_warrior]

Let me clarify in a way many of you should understand. Science is real, aina? So, once vaccinated, its time to eliminate the absurdity. As I said, those who still insist on staying in their hidey hole, you be you. The rest of us want no part of this craziness any more.

Good call doc! I'll start recommending everyone with TB to visit your office since they're sick of the craziness that the world imposes on them!

[rocket surgeon]

Good call doc! I'll start recommending everyone with TB to visit your office since they're sick of the craziness that the world imposes on them!

didn't see anything in doc's post saying if one has active covid to run around coughing in everyone's food.  between herd immunity and vaccinations, this thing will become like any other "thing" going around.  the variants tend to be weakened versions of the original monster from wuhan.  we aren't going to completely eradicate this thing like fowsi thinks.  but it's time for people to come out of their basements and schools, churches and restaurants open.  time for the gubmint to take their boots off the necks of the people

speakin of "orange things"  that orange press secretary, saki girl circle around gig ought to be done pretty soon eyn'a

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Strongly disagree. Even with 95% immunity, you have a 99% chance of surviving covid , if you contract it. Pretty good odds, wouldn't you say? Those who are skeptical and/or afraid need to do whatever makes them comfortable. Just don't impose any restrictions on the rest of us who are vaccinated or willing to live "normally." Life is a gamble every day. People die in their sleep or can die during sexual intercourse. So, pick your poison. Carrying on, as we have for nearly a year now is crazy. Time to end this nonsense and all that goes with it.

By and large I agree with you except the science says that those who are vaccinated may still be able to carry and pass along the disease.  Therefore we need to wait until significantly more of the population is vaccinated.  My goal is Memorial Day.  By that point, almost all of those who have either significant conditions or who could face significant viral loads should be taken care of.

I also wonder where your can't live your life "normally."  Restaurants and bars are largely open.  There aren't any domestic travel restrictions. 

But as I have said before, telling people we may be living like this until 2022 is exactly the wrong message if you want to encourage vaccination.

[rocket surgeon]

"I also wonder where your can't live your life "normally."


  depends on how you describe 'normally"

there are some states, i.e. california, illinois, michigan, new york which might not even be at 25% plus no school.  if someone wants to try to avoid any viral contact, stay home or wear a mask even though mask are of dubious defense.  however, if i have had the vaccine(which i have) and others who haven't been vaccinated are wearing a mask, then they have nothing to worry about along with practicing the other "safe practices" 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

"I also wonder where your can't live your life "normally."


  depends on how you describe 'normally"

there are some states, i.e. california, illinois, michigan, new york which might not even be at 25% plus no school.  if someone wants to try to avoid any viral contact, stay home or wear a mask even though mask are of dubious defense.  however, if i have had the vaccine(which i have) and others who haven't been vaccinated are wearing a mask, then they have nothing to worry about along with practicing the other "safe practices" 

4ever lives in Wisconsin and does not have school age children.

And masks are about limiting your ability to spread.  And if you can still spread while vaccinated, wearing a mask until more people are fully vaccinated makes perfect sense.  Mask wearing sucks but is hardly a significant inconvenience. 

[pbiflyer]

4ever lives in Wisconsin and does not have school age children.

And masks are about limiting your ability to spread.  And if you can still spread while vaccinated, wearing a mask until more people are fully vaccinated makes perfect sense.  Mask wearing sucks but is hardly a significant inconvenience.

So the mask wearing is about protecting other people? Who knew? 

But doc and many of the other anti Covid prevention measure folks have made it abundantly clear that they don’t give a flying f about other people, it’s all about them,

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

By the way, when I say Memorial Day, I fully believe by that point that we will have the supply and distribution problems largely managed.  That those who still haven't been vaccinated will be those who either refuse or who haven't gotten around to it, like many do with other routine medical procedures.  In other words, it will become an issue of demand rather than supply.

And my willingness to continue to live this way for the sake of the ignorant and lazy isn't very high.

[forgetful]

didn't see anything in doc's post saying if one has active covid to run around coughing in everyone's food.  between herd immunity and vaccinations, this thing will become like any other "thing" going around.  the variants tend to be weakened versions of the original monster from wuhan.  we aren't going to completely eradicate this thing like fowsi thinks.  but it's time for people to come out of their basements and schools, churches and restaurants open.  time for the gubmint to take their boots off the necks of the people

speakin of "orange things"  that orange press secretary, saki girl circle around gig ought to be done pretty soon eyn'a

Rocket, you need to brush up on your understanding of basic science and medicine. First, the problem is a good chunk of the spread is from asymptomatic individuals, or pre-symptomatic individuals, so they have no idea if they are running around with infectious COVID. If you argue for people just doing what they want, then you will have people with actively infectious COVID running around with zero precautions.

Second, you are 100% wrong on variants. COVID variants emerge because they are more infectious. They spread easier, so they start to dominate amongst circulating variants. These can then be either equally, more, or less virulent. Most of the strains that have emerged are either equally or more virulent.

For people in the medical profession, you and 4ever seriously lack even a basic understanding of health and disease.

[GooooMarquette]

Rocket, you nee to brush up on your understanding of basic science and medicine. First, the problem is a good chunk of the spread is from asymptomatic individuals, or pre-symptomatic individuals, so they have no idea if they are running around with infectious COVID. If you argue for people just doing what they want, then you will have people with actively infectious COVID running around with zero precautions.

Second, you are 100% wrong on variants. COVID variants emerge because they are more infectious. They spread easier, so they start to dominate amongst circulating variants. These can then be either equally, more, or less virulent. Most of the strains that have emerged are either equally or more virulent.

For people in the medical profession, you and 4ever seriously lack even a basic understanding of health and disease.

And empathy for the vast majority of us who haven't yet gotten the vaccine, and are desperately waiting our turn to be protected from a virus that could make us terribly sick, lead to long-term complications, or even kill us.

We're all waiting for basic safety, and they come here whining about the inconvenience to their vaccine-protected selves. Nice.

[jesmu84]

Strongly disagree. Even with 95% immunity, you have a 99% chance of surviving covid , if you contract it. Pretty good odds, wouldn't you say? Those who are skeptical and/or afraid need to do whatever makes them comfortable. Just don't impose any restrictions on the rest of us who are vaccinated or willing to live "normally." Life is a gamble every day. People die in their sleep or can die during sexual intercourse. So, pick your poison. Carrying on, as we have for nearly a year now is crazy. Time to end this nonsense and all that goes with it.

First you talk about contacting covid. Now you talk about surviving it.

So, which is it?