Wet Markets

[Skatastrophy]

Yo, instead of being a prick.....just find an article, interview, anything suggesting what jockey posted was being said by experts in January, Feb, March of 2020.

I can see why it would be hard for you to google such a non-specific question on your own.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Best and simplest summary I have seen. https://twitter.com/ianbremmer/status/1398651730175406081?s=21

[forgetful]

Best and simplest summary I have seen. https://twitter.com/ianbremmer/status/1398651730175406081?s=21

His statement that if this had started in any democracy we'd have had a far better chance of containing it is false. Look how long it took us to realize it was circulating here, and that is with knowing we should be looking for it.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

His statement that if this had started in any democracy we'd have had a far better chance of containing it is false. Look how long it took us to realize it was circulating here, and that is with knowing we should be looking for it.

That was added after I posted the initial summary. The second part is clearly debatable.   We never hid that it was spreading, but we sure weren’t looking for it. Referencing the WA outbreak here where we even stopped a flu study from running their own tests on it. 

[JWags85]

The US had plenty of failings but they didn’t withhold information and/or lie about what they had found to the rest of the world in terms of fact finding.  Even if it didn’t come from a lab leak, I don’t know why there is any reason to praise or defend China for anything in this pandemic, outside of some of their local response which is even up for debate given their outlandish inaccuracies in infection and death reporting

[MU82]

The US had plenty of failings but they didn’t withhold information and/or lie about what they had found to the rest of the world in terms of fact finding.  Even if it didn’t come from a lab leak, I don’t know why there is any reason to praise or defend China for anything in this pandemic, outside of some of their local response which is even up for debate given their outlandish inaccuracies in infection and death reporting

Perhaps the US didn't withhold info and/or lie about what they had found to the rest of the world, but the president of the US was telling the American people that COVID-19 was similar to the flu and that it would disappear "like a miracle" within days ... even as he was telling Bob Woodward it was 5 times more deadly "than even your strenuous flus."

[JWags85]

Perhaps the US didn't withhold info and/or lie about what they had found to the rest of the world, but the president of the US was telling the American people that COVID-19 was similar to the flu and that it would disappear "like a miracle" within days ... even as he was telling Bob Woodward it was 5 times more deadly "than even your strenuous flus."

FFS Mike, can you stay on topic for even 1 post without repeating the same f-ing crap over and over? You’re adding NOTHING and doing nothing but trying to bait the same people. 

Nobody in the international medical community was making or adjusting their perspective on COVID cause of what Trump said in a press conference.  Wildly different than WHO statements and guidance based on what China was feeding them

[MU82]

FFS Mike, can you stay on topic for even 1 post without repeating the same f-ing crap over and over? You’re adding NOTHING and doing nothing but trying to bait the same people. 

Nobody in the international medical community was making or adjusting their perspective on COVID cause of what Trump said in a press conference.  Wildly different than WHO statements and guidance based on what China was feeding them

Yes. Apologies to reasonable folks like you.

[forgetful]

The US had plenty of failings but they didn’t withhold information and/or lie about what they had found to the rest of the world in terms of fact finding.  Even if it didn’t come from a lab leak, I don’t know why there is any reason to praise or defend China for anything in this pandemic, outside of some of their local response which is even up for debate given their outlandish inaccuracies in infection and death reporting

China clearly lied about a lot. But I don't think you can say we didn't withhold information and/or lie about what they had found.

We actively forbid researchers from testing suspicious samples in cases of severe flu-like symptoms that were flu negative. These were later found to contain some of the earliest cases of COVID that then went un-investigated. We deliberately blocked testing of people returning from China. These actions knowingly withheld the US public, and the world from realizing how much spread there was already in the US.

We then also, in almost all states under-reported deaths by only reporting tests with a positive COVID test, but not testing those who died with COVID-like symptoms.

I'd argue that if China was reported to have done all the above, many on these boards would be screaming that the above were lies and deliberate withholding of information and they should be held responsible.

[forgetful]

An oddity of the whole COVID origins that I don't think gets enough attention is the retrospective reports of COVID cases in multiple areas going back to fall 2019, particularly in Italy.

Analysis of samples from September 2019, show evidence of infection in multiple areas of Northern Italy, and in the sewage, prior to the main cases in Wuhan. The ones dating from September do not correlate with a rise in any severe illness.

These results suggest that the virus may have been circulating in a less infectious form for awhile.

Also intriguing, the first known case in France (from mid Dec.) was a fishmonger who worked in a seafood market. Other early cases also seem to align with markets. It at least makes you wonder if there is a common source then tied to wildlife/poachers/traffickers.

nb. This is speculation, and intrigue, not really based on much information. Also, veering back to original topic.

[Jockey]

His statement that if this had started in any democracy we'd have had a far better chance of containing it is false. Look how long it took us to realize it was circulating here, and that is with knowing we should be looking for it.

You're wrong, Forgetful. We did know it was circulating here. It took a long time for leaders to admit it was circulating here.

[Jockey]

The US had plenty of failings but they didn’t withhold information and/or lie about what they had found to the rest of the world in terms of fact finding.  Even if it didn’t come from a lab leak, I don’t know why there is any reason to praise or defend China for anything in this pandemic, outside of some of their local response which is even up for debate given their outlandish inaccuracies in infection and death reporting

Yes the US did lie to the entire world. When trump said there were only 15 cases, he was lying and all of his people knew he was lying.

[Jockey]

China clearly lied about a lot. But I don't think you can say we didn't withhold information and/or lie about what they had found.

We actively forbid researchers from testing suspicious samples in cases of severe flu-like symptoms that were flu negative. These were later found to contain some of the earliest cases of COVID that then went un-investigated. We deliberately blocked testing of people returning from China. These actions knowingly withheld the US public, and the world from realizing how much spread there was already in the US.

We then also, in almost all states under-reported deaths by only reporting tests with a positive COVID test, but not testing those who died with COVID-like symptoms.

I'd argue that if China was reported to have done all the above, many on these boards would be screaming that the above were lies and deliberate withholding of information and they should be held responsible.

100% accurate.

[forgetful]

https://www.foxnews.com/world/explosive-study-claims-to-prove-chinese-scientists-created-covid

Articles like this drive me nuts. It is articles like this, pushed by agenda driven groups like the GOP and Foxnews that lead to crazy conspiracy theories. And leads to scientists being accused of rejecting the idea of a "lab leak" because they are refuting crap science.

The reason this article was rejected by major journals wasn't some conspiracy theory, but simply because their main premise is crap. They claim that since a SARS-CoV2 protein has 4 positively charged amino acids in a row it proves that SARS-CoV2 was engineered, because "The laws of physics mean that you cannot have four positively charged amino acids in a row."

Someone needs to tell that to one of the proteins I study, because it has 4 positively charged amino acids in a row, as to plenty of other natural proteins, as the motif they are highlighting is used widely as a nuclear localization signal to direct said protein to the nucleus. Also common in coronaviruses, including the original SARS virus.

[rocket surgeon]

https://www.foxnews.com/world/explosive-study-claims-to-prove-chinese-scientists-created-covid

Articles like this drive me nuts. It is articles like this, pushed by agenda driven groups like the GOP and Foxnews that lead to crazy conspiracy theories. And leads to scientists being accused of rejecting the idea of a "lab leak" because they are refuting crap science.

The reason this article was rejected by major journals wasn't some conspiracy theory, but simply because their main premise is crap. They claim that since a SARS-CoV2 protein has 4 positively charged amino acids in a row it proves that SARS-CoV2 was engineered, because "The laws of physics mean that you cannot have four positively charged amino acids in a row."

Someone needs to tell that to one of the proteins I study, because it has 4 positively charged amino acids in a row, as to plenty of other natural proteins.

  no chit forget.  almost as bad as every network in the world except fox pushing russiarussiarussia for 3 + years, but i understand your frustration

[naginiF]

  no chit forget.  almost as bad as every network in the world except fox pushing russiarussiarussia for 3 + years, but i understand your frustration

Wait until you figure out what's going to happen with Jan 6th

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Unfortunately, the GOP..

Yet again you have used the slightest opening to go off topic and inject your political opinions.

[MU82]

Yet again you have used the slightest opening to go off topic and inject your political opinions.

And realized it. And apologized for it. You should be as willing to do the same.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

And realized it. And apologized for it. You should be as willing to do the same.

LOL.  For what?

[mu_hilltopper]

Sweet fancy Moses.

[pacearrow02]

https://mobile.twitter.com/michaeljohns/status/1399995521138409476

[pacearrow02]

https://mobile.twitter.com/zerohedge/status/1399910584393469956

These Fauci emails are something.  No wonder the initial federal response was a disaster with this guy as our chief medical ExPeRt.

[4everwarriors]

Fr. Fauci's an idiot. Got his hands in da cookie jar. Dis iz y covid has now gone away. Tyme ta get rid of FF, aina?

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

This is the hypothetical equivalent of Jockey posting an email from trump about bleach from early April. 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

That was from February 2020.  Fauci realized he was wrong as the science evolved.  (ie, when he realized that asymptomatic people spread the virus.)  Others didn't.

He's been right way more than he's been wrong.  Many others, including many people here, can't say the same.