MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: tower912 on January 05, 2021, 09:57:30 PM
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1. Not enough from the guards. DJ and Koby were not good tonight, offensively.
2. I felt the outcome was inevitable with MU still up 7 at the 10 minute mark when Garcia had an open driving lane and shot and clanked the 24 footer. After a possession where they swung the ball really well to get a 3 attempt from Symir. Never, ever swing the ball to get Symir a 3.
3. UConn's length is quicker and jumps better.
4. Wojo wanted them to pound it inside with UConn foul trouble, you could see it. DJ and Koby wanted to take over. And neither one had it tonight.
5. What goes around, comes around. Come from 18 points down one game, give up an 18 point lead the next.
6. All 3 seniors sitting with foul trouble for the last few minutes of the first.
7. I always felt the run was inevitable. The only question was whether MU could right the ship and get it going again.
8. Polley tonight = Jean Felix.
9. Lewis looked like a freshman on the boards tonight. It happens against athletic teams. Need a betting pool on when he makes his next 3.
10. UConn is known for their defensive pressure and their prowess on the offensive boards. Welp...... Pressure increased, MU went cold. All she wrote.
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And a coach that looked like a deer in headlights again.
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11. Dan Hurley>wojo times 100
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Have to play hard for all 40 minutes in the Big East. Can't ever let up.
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reading this is just laughable.........so this is what the Marquette program has become
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Guaranteed Wojo’s press conference: “they’re a really good team and really well coached”. Same thing EVERY press conference.
Has that ever been said about MU? Why is EVERY team we play really well coached and they play really good the night we play them.
Broken record
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That was a disaster, no sugar coating that. Agree, after the back to back three’s that took our lead from 18-12 in :30 I had a feeling we were about to witness a total collapse.
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“I know the guys are drained”
-wojo
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Got outcoached in the second half big time. UConn adjusted to everything nicely.
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Wojo’s typical late season collapse just started a bit earlier this year.
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9 turnovers and a 29 pt swing in 15 minutes...achievement unlocked?
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Louisville 2011, Washington 2010. Not like it's never happened but this was bad reason I'm pretty much apathetic now days.
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#2 was spot on. I knew it was over at that point and thought we would be lucky to keep it within 10. We didn’t.
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You post all that and nothing on the head coach and the role he played in this collapse? Come on.
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i feel like people are to casual about a loss like this. up 18 and lose by double digits? some people are just like"oops tough game,were good though. on to the next one".
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If you aren’t on board for firing wojo at this point you are lost forever
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Wojo’s typical late season collapse just started a bit earlier this year.
Collapse implies we were actually good for an extended period of time.
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When we tried to play exclusively in the halfcourt, despite building much of our lead with transition points, that's when everything changed.
Sure, uconn started making tons. But our own decision led to what happened.
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Re #2 - when you’re playing at home against a not great team and you feel you’re out of it up 7 with 10 minutes left - that speaks volumes about where you are as a program.
We flat out panicked on offense. Dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble bad shot.
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Why did we stop forcing Dawson? He was a walking mismatch. Head scratcher from Coach Gotta Have a Certain Water Cup.
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If you aren’t on board for firing wojo at this point you are lost forever
There aren't many defending him, but he's here at least through next year, so I don't see the point of ripping him.
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Re #2 - when you’re playing at home against a not great team and you feel you’re out of it up 7 with 10 minutes left - that speaks volumes about where you are as a program.
We flat out panicked on offense. Dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble bad shot.
This
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Can't wait for the usual post from TAMU "UConn was favored to win so it's okay"
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You post all that and nothing on the head coach and the role he played in this collapse? Come on.
Tower isn't an idiot, he knows. But there is too much negativity out there these days theres no need for another voice harping on the program.
I've been as patient as anybody here but I really don't need to see Wojo patrol the sidelines anymore, but one, nobody cares what I think, and two, there's no use in disparaging the entire program for it.
So nothing to do but hope for better results this season and hope changes are made in the offseason.
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If you aren’t on board for firing wojo at this point you are lost forever
What do you suppose we do. Complain on a message board about it?
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We flat out panicked on offense. Dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble bad shot.
Koby is a master of dribbling backwards. O just went stagnant - and I don't think it was all because of their D.
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Tower isn't an idiot, he knows. But there is too much negativity out there these days theres no need for another voice harping on the program.
I've been as patient as anybody here but I really don't need to see Wojo patrol the sidelines anymore, but one, nobody cares what I think, and two, there's no use in disparaging the entire program for it.
So nothing to do but hope for better results this season and hope changes are made in the offseason.
💯
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There aren't many defending him, but he's here at least through next year, so I don't see the point of ripping him.
What’s the point of any of this then? Nothing you do on here or anywhere else will have a material impact on the team in any form or fashion.
Why is negativity toward Wojo the ONLY thing that’s taboo because it won’t accomplish anything. Being ignorantly optimistic won’t accomplish crap either.
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You post all that and nothing on the head coach and the role he played in this collapse? Come on.
+1000
Also, this thread should've been titled "Polley want a cracker"
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So, it looked like previous games, just slightly different uniforms by the opposing team.
Didn't look any differently than many games before.
Don't they review and come up with fixes?
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Why is negativity toward Wojo the ONLY thing that’s taboo because it won’t accomplish anything. Being ignorantly optimistic won’t accomplish crap either.
Taboo? Have you seen the threads about wojo?
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This one broke me. No reason to subject myself to this. Taking a few week break. Hope they turn it around
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Koby is a master of dribbling backwards. O just went stagnant - and I don't think it was all because of their D.
Yup.
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Tower isn't an idiot, he knows. But there is too much negativity out there these days theres no need for another voice harping on the program.
I've been as patient as anybody here but I really don't need to see Wojo patrol the sidelines anymore, but one, nobody cares what I think, and two, there's no use in disparaging the entire program for it.
So nothing to do but hope for better results this season and hope changes are made in the offseason.
Absolutely where I’m at. If that means we have a couple players transfer so be it. I want desperately for Wojo to succeed cause that means we succeed but tonight was tough to watch.
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What do you suppose we do. Complain on a message board about it?
Why is anyone on a message board at all? None of it means anything? But only complaining about the coach is pointless? The rest is productive somehow?
No it’s all just noise into the abyss. If the coach sucks - negativity is warranted.
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Wojo’s typical late season collapse just started a bit earlier this year.
The schedule opens up considerably and MU plays some very crappy teams in a row. Encouraging people to not buy the fools gold if they do win a few of those games. The Big East is pretty awful at the bottom. This is the kind of game you get against a somewhat competent team and it’s been the same for 7 years.
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i feel like people are to casual about a loss like this. up 18 and lose by double digits? some people are just like"oops tough game,were good though. on to the next one".
Because I half expected it to happen. Really don’t feel that Wojo is good enough to make adjustments. No reason to get mad. Life goes on.
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+1000
Also, this thread should've been titled "Polley want a cracker"
Was thinking the same thing. Kid freaking destroyed us.
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Why is anyone on a message board at all? None of it means anything? But only complaining about the coach is pointless? The rest is productive somehow?
No it’s all just noise into the abyss. If the coach sucks - negativity is warranted.
To be honest, we just don’t like you.
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To be honest, we just don’t like you.
Yeah that happens when someone tries to tell you facts that you don’t want to hear. There’s an ignore button I invite you to use.
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There aren't many defending him, but he's here at least through next year, so I don't see the point of ripping him.
We had an 18 point lead in the second half with a chance to build momentum coming off a comeback win on the road against Georgetown a few days ago. And then, with UCONN's best player injured and completely ineffective, we still lost by double digits. People have every right to dump on Wojo for a game like this.
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Yeah that happens when someone tries to tell you facts that you don’t want to hear. There’s an ignore button I invite you to use.
I don’t disagree with your conclusions. I just think you’re a dick.
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I don’t disagree with your conclusions. I just think you’re a dick.
That’s too bad.
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This one broke me. No reason to subject myself to this. Taking a few week break. Hope they turn it around
I think the issue is that this team isn’t very fun. Creighton and Wisconsin were a blast, but this is a team that is SOOO talented on paper and yet just vanishes. Marquette has a MCD AA, a very highly regarded PG, some guys who’ve shown they can really score the ball..and they made 3...THREE...FG in the final 15 min. It’s one thing to play hard and lose, but just withering on the vine makes it really hard to get up for games. I’ll watch, I’ll follow, but I don’t expect anything of note anymore. I worried about Carton and or Garcia leaving after this year, but at this point they probably should. They won’t be getting any more prepared for the next level in this offense.
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We had an 18 point lead in the second half with a chance to build momentum coming off a comeback win on the road against Georgetown a few days ago. And then, with UCONN's best player injured and completely ineffective, we still lost by double digits. People have every right to dump on Wojo for a game like this.
Sure they do. I still don't see the point. He's bad, we've heard all the reasons before. Maybe we should have coaching 101, 102, 103 threads after each game so he can read them and learn how to coach. That might have a point.
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Have to give Hurley credit as his guys completely turned it up 10 notches and took it right to MU in the 2H. He was drawing up set plays and getting his hot hand shot after shot. Great coaching.
It’s in no way comparable to MUs comeback last week. Georgetown just slowly pissed that game away I felt bad for them. They were beyond pathetic.
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Broken record Wojo on the post-game radio interview. “UConn is good”. Gee Coach, how profound.
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If Lovell started a GoFundMe for the buyout, would he finally have a successful fundraising campaign?
I think this is the most apathetic I’ve felt about MU basketball. I honestly wasn’t even that upset we lost. I’ve just learned to not get my hopes up.
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Honestly I’m glad UConn is back with some old fashioned Big East pride. We were beating them down the first couple minutes of the 2nd half and they decided to turn up the intensity and want it more.
Strange we really didn’t have a collapse caused by careless turnovers per se but still embarrassing. Season not over, but it definitely sucks to be on this roller coaster right now.
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I tend to think the coach has less impact on 10 min segments of games than most but what’s really bothering me is that so many analysts talk about wojos mentality when he was a player. whether or not you want us playing like that we def don’t have the same identity - we have zero killer instinct under wojo; we only thrive when our heads are against the wall. we need to move from a grinding team to a team that flexes its advantages and what I like about our program is that I feel like the personnel has the advantages of a top 25 team - so why aren’t the results more consistent .... there’s a lack in identity with our teams and that’s something a coach must be accountable for -
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I've long felt more comfortable with a slight halftime deficit than lead because Wojo doesn't seem to coach well with a lead. This was a perfect example. Deer in the headlights, no adjustments.
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Sure they do. I still don't see the point. He's bad, we've heard all the reasons before. Maybe we should have coaching 101, 102, 103 threads after each game so he can read them and learn how to coach. That might have a point.
And yet, you were the one who felt the need to beat your chest and start a thread bashing a poster on here after we beat Wisconsin. I didn't really see the point of that, but I guess people are free to post what they like.
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I didn't really see the point of that, but I guess people are free to post what they like.
Ah, NOW you get it. We're all allowed to have opinions. lol.
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I can’t see a road to the tournament for Marquette. They will be lucky to finish near .500 in the BE.
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I’m rooting for wojo but if this crop of players doesn’t do something special this season or next it’s time to move on - I think we spend up to two years in Georgetown land as a result
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Two thoughts:
—For all Garcia’s great offensive performance, his defense on Polley...well, it allowed Polley to score as many points in the 2nd half as the MU team did.
—MU had 2 chances when down six, yet open looks for threes by Cain and Mckewn were missed. Then Carton took an unadvisable 3 that missed, and that was it.
It hurts, badly.
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It looked like we completely lost energy. Haysoos, not GD tired again, I hope,
This team can't put two halves together. What's that a sign of?
Symir got TO'd once, didn't do much, but certainly didn't suck.
Hurley said they had more depth. Bench scoring 34-8.
Double double for Dawson.
I swear to God we are the worst team in America on opponent BOOB plays.
UConn was true to form with 44% Off rebound %.
We are looking at a 2-5 start. We have a severe need to sweep DP, SJU, and BUT, as well as
GT at home, X at home and at least a split with PC. We could perhaps drop one of those and survive.
Bottom line: there are a lot of nice things about our players, our coach, but we are not a program ready to move up much....and the beat goes on, and the beat goes on.
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0-3 at Fiserv in conference.
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We have a week to figure it out. :o
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What do you suppose we do. Complain on a message board about it?
Yeah, why would anyone ever have an opinion about anything on a internet message board of all places. That would be crazy! Who does that? ::)
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I can’t see a road to the tournament for Marquette. They will be lucky to finish near .500 in the BE.
BLM told me last night .500 in conference puts us solidly in the tournament. Do we even think that’s true?
A path to .500 in conference would be sweeping DePaul and St John, winning our remaining game against Gtown, splitting with Providence, and getting 2 wins in any of our remaining games (Nova, Seton Hall, Creighton, Butler, Xavier, UConn).
I’m not sure I understand how or why that path would be considered solidly in the tourney.
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BLM told me last night .500 in conference puts us solidly in the tournament. Do we even think that’s true?
A path to .500 in conference would be sweeping DePaul and St John, winning our remaining game against Gtown, splitting with Providence, and getting 2 wins in any of our remaining games (Nova, Seton Hall, Creighton, Butler, Xavier, UConn).
I’m not sure I understand how or why that path would be considered solidly in the tourney.
A .500 Big East team with wins over Wisconsin and Creighton? Yeah. We're in the Tournament if we go .500 in the Big East.
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Ah, NOW you get it. We're all allowed to have opinions. lol.
Not to be a tattle tale but lots of politics coming into the Hangin at the Al board right now.
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Not to be a tattle tale but lots of politics coming into the Hangin at the Al board right now.
Not to be a tattle tale, but I'm going to tattle tale on people!
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Absolutely embarrassing second half, which led to an epic collapse. 34-11 run. Polley being on fire aside, UConn just hustled and clearly wanted it more. Their bench, mostly by Polley, outscored our bench 35-8. We were out-rebounded 42-28. We had so many shots on offense that did not hit anything. We, as in previous games, didn't have any answers. Like in the Georgetown game, we struggled to score. To me, the most telling play in the entire game was when Cain got the ball popped out of bounds behind him. No one, at least on TV (and there are no fans) , was yelling that someone was coming behind him to swat at the ball. Not the players on the court, not the bench, not the coaches. There, once again, appears to be a disconnect. And, we once again only have an eight-man rotation; tough to compete in the Big East without a dependable or productive bench (Lewis by himself is not enough).
It gives me no pleasure to say, as I have long been a supporter and proponent of Wojo, but I am personally at the point where I would be in favor of a coaching change after the season. The trajectory just isn't there. MU teams do not develop or get better as individual seasons progress. Problems do not get fixed and weaknesses do not get corrected. There is no identity that supports sustainable, winning, tournament-caliber basketball.
I will continue to watch each and every game, and absolutely continue to support and cheer for the players and staff. I think the program is just at point where a new (and experienced) voice is needed.
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what’s really bothering me is that so many analysts talk about wojos mentality when he was a player. whether or not you want us playing like that we def don’t have the same identity - we have zero killer instinct under wojo;
I had the exact same response when they went into that riff.
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A .500 Big East team with wins over Wisconsin and Creighton? Yeah. We're in the Tournament if we go .500 in the Big East.
With only 2 quality wins in November? If our 2 additional wins I describe above are Butler and Xavier, then the Wisconsin and Creighton wins are pretty much our only resume fodder. Unless of course you are of the Wojo line of thinking that the Big East is a gauntlet and every win is huge yada yada.
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A .500 Big East team with wins over Wisconsin and Creighton? Yeah. We're in the Tournament if we go .500 in the Big East.
I'm not sure about that. Would only be +2 in the win column, and that's assuming we win one at MSG. Depends on what games we actually play. If we're 8-8 and the six additional wins are all against GT, DPU, SJU, & Butler, that's not a NCAA team.
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So who's getting in? I mean, you need 68 teams, the Ivy isn't playing. There is no chance a .500 team with 2 top 10 wins misses the NCAA Tournament.
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Defensive intensity = 0.
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I'm not sure about that. Would only be +2 in the win column, and that's assuming we win one at MSG. Depends on what games we actually play. If we're 8-8 and the six additional wins are all against GT, DPU, SJU, & Butler, that's not a NCAA team.
Basically exactly what I said.
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.500 in conference play (and 14-12 overall) is not getting us in; that and two wins in the BET could be enough, but not .500 by itself. 15 wins is the key, which means MU needs to (at least) go 10-6 the rest of the way to accomplish that - and this assuming all the BE games end up getting played (which is still likely, but much more difficult with many programs going on pause).
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So who's getting in? I mean, you need 68 teams, the Ivy isn't playing. There is no chance a .500 team with 2 top 10 wins misses the NCAA Tournament.
Let’s bracketologize up a 68 team field for BLM because he can’t admit he’s wrong.
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So who's getting in? I mean, you need 68 teams, the Ivy isn't playing. There is no chance a .500 team with 2 top 10 wins misses the NCAA Tournament.
If that's their entire resume? We won't get in. No chance. Two Q1 wins won't be enough. This league isn't good enough.
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I've long felt more comfortable with a slight halftime deficit than lead because Wojo doesn't seem to coach well with a lead. This was a perfect example. Deer in the headlights, no adjustments.
WOJO DOESN'T MAKE THE SHOTS!
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Let’s bracketologize up a 68 team field for BLM because he can’t admit he’s wrong.
Have at it. Find me 68 teams that will get in above a Marquette team that goes .500 in the 3rd best conference in America and has 2 top 10 wins.
Otherwise the Big East is getting 3 or 4 bids. And again. You need 68 teams. Let's see where teams .500 in the Big East wind up, even if they don't have wins at Creighton or over Wisconsin.
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Let’s bracketologize up a 68 team field for BLM because he can’t admit he’s wrong.
Yeah, I mean stumbling into the tournament ass backwards because the rest of the field sucks isn't exactly something to be proud of. I'm guessing most Bears fans aren't thrilled they made the playoffs with the season they had.
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Have at it. Find me 68 teams that will get in above a Marquette team that goes .500 in the 3rd best conference in America and has 2 top 10 wins.
Otherwise the Big East is getting 3 or 4 bids. And again. You need 68 teams.
I'd like to believe you but nah... this to me smells of 2018 where we had some great highs and some pathetic lows.
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Just visited the UCONN board.
They are PISSED at Hurley for celebrating the victory.
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So who's getting in? I mean, you need 68 teams, the Ivy isn't playing. There is no chance a .500 team with 2 top 10 wins misses the NCAA Tournament.
You must think the Ivy not playing opens up 5 extra tourney slots.
Let’s see who the losses are to.
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https://www.gamepredict.us/bracketology (https://www.gamepredict.us/bracketology)
As of right now, the Big East is likely to get five teams in. ACC 9, P12 4, B10 10, SEC 6, B12 6, AAC 2, MWC 2 and A10 2. That's 46 of the 68 teams right there, and the rest of single bids.
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You must think the Ivy not playing opens up 5 extra tourney slots.
Let’s see who the losses are to.
Would crack me up if we beat nova and sweep Creighton but get swept by Depaul. I know it's not 2020 anymore but that'd be a cap to this cluster duck of a season
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Have at it. Find me 68 teams that will get in above a Marquette team that goes .500 in the 3rd best conference in America and has 2 top 10 wins.
Otherwise the Big East is getting 3 or 4 bids. And again. You need 68 teams. Let's see where teams .500 in the Big East wind up, even if they don't have wins at Creighton or over Wisconsin.
Getting to, or close to for that matter, .500 will be a tall, tall task for this team.
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You must think the Ivy not playing opens up 5 extra tourney slots.
Let’s see who the losses are to.
It opens up one extra bid. A .500 team from the 3rd best conference in the country with 2 top 10 wins would not miss the NCAA Tournament. Do we get to .500? Hopefully. But if we do, we're in.
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I’ve been Projo for a long time. Like his character and the way he runs a clean program. And he represents the university well. But I’ve been on the fence this season. MU’s inability to stop UConn’s run tonight is pushing me more towards Nojo. The Nojo points on Wojo’s lack of in-game counter moves are true. And this team’s intensity tonight was no where near UConn’s.
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Just visited the UCONN board.
They are PISSED at Hurley for celebrating the victory.
Well played.
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Have at it. Find me 68 teams that will get in above a Marquette team that goes .500 in the 3rd best conference in America and has 2 top 10 wins.
Otherwise the Big East is getting 3 or 4 bids. And again. You need 68 teams. Let's see where teams .500 in the Big East wind up, even if they don't have wins at Creighton or over Wisconsin.
I’m literally being sarcastic. Brew told you everything you need to know. .500 in a conference with at least 3 very bad high major teams and 14-12 overall with 2 total quality wins? It’s not a tourney team.
I’m sorry I can’t predict the exact team that will “take their spot” but MU won’t be there if that’s what their resume looks like.
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This sucked. No adjustments made. Might take a game or two off to cool off.
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Have at it. Find me 68 teams that will get in above a Marquette team that goes .500 in the 3rd best conference in America and has 2 top 10 wins.
Otherwise the Big East is getting 3 or 4 bids. And again. You need 68 teams. Let's see where teams .500 in the Big East wind up, even if they don't have wins at Creighton or over Wisconsin.
Big East is at most 6 bids at this point. Nova, Creighton, Seton Hall, Xavier, and UConn all clearly ahead of us for those bids. Better hope we finish ahead of Providence, who's 1.5 up on us already.
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Not to be a tattle tale but lots of politics coming into the Hangin at the Al board right now.
Actually, police brutality focused at black people isn't a political thing. It's wrong. It's worthy of a discussion not regurgitating talking points of your favorite TV channel.
Blake wasn't a model citizen, given his record he wasn't even a good citizen. He probably shouldn't have gotten in the middle of a ruckus with the cops given his record.
The cops have a job that requires enforcing the safety of citizens, and were responding to a 911 call, and found a guy with an arrest warrant at the scene. They should appropriately try to apprehend him, so that the courts can determine his fate. They shot that man in the back 7 times.
The team is not "celebrating" Jacob Blake - they're trying to help bring attention to the fact that Jacob Blake did nothing that day to deserve the death penalty, and we need to fix our policing so that cops aren't the jury and the executioner so damn much.
Oh, and today's game sucked. So I'm hopeful people can at least try to have some halfway decent conversation about the black uniforms worn to remember Jacob Blake.
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It opens up one extra bid. A .500 team from the 3rd best conference in the country with 2 top 10 wins would not miss the NCAA Tournament. Do we get to .500? Hopefully. But if we do, we're in.
I’m really sorry but top-to-bottom this is not the 3rd best conference in the country. It’s just not. I love the Big East but it’s not.
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Another year or two of this, and we'll be in Georgetown territory. The longer Marquette sticks with Wojo, the harder it will be to bounce back.
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I’m really sorry but top-to-bottom this is not the 3rd best conference in the country. It’s just not. I love the Big East but it’s not.
So the ACC is better top to bottom? The Pac 12? The WAC? Who's better?
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Actually, police brutality focused at black people isn't a political thing. It's wrong. It's worthy of a discussion not regurgitating talking points of your favorite TV channel.
Blake wasn't a model citizen, given his record he wasn't even a good citizen. He probably shouldn't have gotten in the middle of a ruckus with the cops given his record.
The cops have a job that requires enforcing the safety of citizens, and were responding to a 911 call, and found a guy with an arrest warrant at the scene. They should appropriately try to apprehend him, so that the courts can determine his fate. They shot that man in the back 7 times.
The team is not "celebrating" Jacob Blake - they're trying to help bring attention to the fact that Jacob Blake did nothing that day to deserve the death penalty, and we need to fix our policing so that cops aren't the jury and the executioner so damn much.
Oh, and today's game sucked. So I'm hopeful people can at least try to have some halfway decent conversation about the black uniforms worn to remember Jacob Blake.
Mic drop.
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Actually, police brutality focused at black people isn't a political thing. It's wrong. It's worthy of a discussion not regurgitating talking points of your favorite TV channel.
Blake wasn't a model citizen, given his record he wasn't even a good citizen. He probably shouldn't have gotten in the middle of a ruckus with the cops given his record.
The cops have a job that requires enforcing the safety of citizens, and were responding to a 911 call, and found a guy with an arrest warrant at the scene. They should appropriately try to apprehend him, so that the courts can determine his fate. They shot that man in the back 7 times.
The team is not "celebrating" Jacob Blake - they're trying to help bring attention to the fact that Jacob Blake did nothing that day to deserve the death penalty, and we need to fix our policing so that cops aren't the jury and the executioner so damn much.
Oh, and today's game sucked. So I'm hopeful people can at least try to have some halfway decent conversation about the black uniforms worn to remember Jacob Blake.
Sticky this!
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Actually, police brutality focused at black people isn't a political thing. It's wrong. It's worthy of a discussion not regurgitating talking points of your favorite TV channel.
Blake wasn't a model citizen, given his record he wasn't even a good citizen. He probably shouldn't have gotten in the middle of a ruckus with the cops given his record.
The cops have a job that requires enforcing the safety of citizens, and were responding to a 911 call, and found a guy with an arrest warrant at the scene. They should appropriately try to apprehend him, so that the courts can determine his fate. They shot that man in the back 7 times.
The team is not "celebrating" Jacob Blake - they're trying to help bring attention to the fact that Jacob Blake did nothing that day to deserve the death penalty, and we need to fix our policing so that cops aren't the jury and the executioner so damn much.
Oh, and today's game sucked. So I'm hopeful people can at least try to have some halfway decent conversation about the black uniforms worn to remember Jacob Blake.
Absolutely agreed, I never made an argument otherwise.
Also to say that the Jacob Blake situation, specifically, is not political would be being willfully ignorant. The reason they wore BLM tonight was due to the decisions of the politically elected Kenosha County Attorney General not to charge the officer. Whether you think that was right or wrong based on the facts that you believe to be true doesn’t matter - it is still inherently political.
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Absolutely agreed, I never made an argument otherwise.
Also to say that the Jacob Blake situation, specifically, is not political would be being willfully ignorant. The reason they wore BLM tonight was due to the decisions of the politically elected Kenosha County Attorney General not to charge the officer. Whether you think that was right or wrong based on the facts that you believe to be true doesn’t matter - it is still inherently political.
Basic human rights are not political. At all. The right to live is not political.
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Basic human rights are not political. At all. The right to live is not political.
Who is protesting basic human rights? They are protesting the decision of the Kenosha Attorney General - a politically elected official - about a basic human rights situation. Since the AG made the wrong decision, it is now political.
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Actually, police brutality focused at black people isn't a political thing. It's wrong. It's worthy of a discussion not regurgitating talking points of your favorite TV channel.
Blake wasn't a model citizen, given his record he wasn't even a good citizen. He probably shouldn't have gotten in the middle of a ruckus with the cops given his record.
The cops have a job that requires enforcing the safety of citizens, and were responding to a 911 call, and found a guy with an arrest warrant at the scene. They should appropriately try to apprehend him, so that the courts can determine his fate. They shot that man in the back 7 times.
The team is not "celebrating" Jacob Blake - they're trying to help bring attention to the fact that Jacob Blake did nothing that day to deserve the death penalty, and we need to fix our policing so that cops aren't the jury and the executioner so damn much.
Oh, and today's game sucked. So I'm hopeful people can at least try to have some halfway decent conversation about the black uniforms worn to remember Jacob Blake.
Agree with basically everything in your post Rocky - Jacob Blake didn’t deserve to be shot 7 times that day. But the OP said the players were wearing black to “honor Jacob Blake”. Maybe he (or the players) misspoke. But if not, I don’t see a whole lot honorable about Jacob Blake.
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Actually, police brutality focused at black people isn't a political thing. It's wrong. It's worthy of a discussion not regurgitating talking points of your favorite TV channel.
Blake wasn't a model citizen, given his record he wasn't even a good citizen. He probably shouldn't have gotten in the middle of a ruckus with the cops given his record.
The cops have a job that requires enforcing the safety of citizens, and were responding to a 911 call, and found a guy with an arrest warrant at the scene. They should appropriately try to apprehend him, so that the courts can determine his fate. They shot that man in the back 7 times.
The team is not "celebrating" Jacob Blake - they're trying to help bring attention to the fact that Jacob Blake did nothing that day to deserve the death penalty, and we need to fix our policing so that cops aren't the jury and the executioner so damn much.
Oh, and today's game sucked. So I'm hopeful people can at least try to have some halfway decent conversation about the black uniforms worn to remember Jacob Blake.
But do we know that is true? Oh, he’s also alive. Did you watch the press conference? If so, any thoughts on what was presented?
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But do we know that is true? Oh, he’s also alive. Did you watch the press conference? If so, any thoughts on what was presented?
Yeah. My thoughts are two police officers armed with tasers, mace, batons, and guns couldn’t get control of a situation involving one unarmed person. If you’re that incompetent at your job, maybe it’s time to change how the job is done or find people who can perform the job better.
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But do we know that is true? Oh, he’s also alive. Did you watch the press conference? If so, any thoughts on what was presented?
Was just about to post this correction - I actually did forget that Blake survived until I questioned myself a few minutes ago.
I did not watch any of the press, or read any stories. Have only seen headlines since the first few weeks of the shooting.
Who is protesting basic human rights? They are protesting the decision of the Kenosha Attorney General - a politically elected official - about a basic human rights situation. Since the AG made the wrong decision, it is now political.
I'm not sure that the TEAM is making a political statement - that seems like a stretch of your imagination to me.
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I'm not sure that the TEAM is making a political statement - that seems like a stretch of your imagination to me.
Well no disrespect but why would they choose to make this gesture the day the news is released that the officer is not charged if not a form of protest against the decision? I mean they specifically reference Blake in their statements it’s not like they’re just generally protesting police brutality and racial injustice. It seems logical rather than a stretch of the imagination.
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Another year or two of this, and we'll be in Georgetown territory. The longer Marquette sticks with Wojo, the harder it will be to bounce back.
Apologies for bringing it back to hoops, though I do appreciate dialogue about Jacob Blake.
The dilemma is that optimists see us in a year or two as Georgetown under John Thompson, in their highlight years. Pessimists see us as G’town under JTIII, never filling potential.
My concern is that I don’t see us trending one way or the other with Wojo, but just stagnating. And I’m getting tired of that. At the same time, I fear starting over with a new coach, and find an odd stability in “being close” and having potential, with a solid program and good recruiting. I’m torn, and want some results.
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The official written communication by the program said "in support of Jacob Blake". I get the intent from the players with the purpose behind the messaging; unfortunately, to many, "in support of Jacob Blake" inadvertently says the team, the program and the school also supports an individual that had a warrant for third degree sexual assault against a victim; was armed with a deadly weapon against law enforcement; had broken a restraining order; had gotten into a confrontation with police with the children of the victim inside a nearby car. To be clear, you can support criminal justice and police reform, the fight against racial and social inequalities and BLM as an entire whole, while not "supporting" or condoning the actions of one Mr. Blake leading up to this terrible incident.
The problem for Marquette University and the Marquette Basketball program, is that this was not what was communicated; it was written as "in support of Jacob Blake" without any of the background or context. It was written by emotion, and likely did not have much thought behind what was communicated or how it was said (especially since the announcement was just today). Judging by the responses on social media (on both Twitter and Instagram), I'd say that the message created much division with many alums and supporters, which is unfortunate.
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Actually, police brutality focused at black people isn't a political thing. It's wrong. It's worthy of a discussion not regurgitating talking points of your favorite TV channel.
Blake wasn't a model citizen, given his record he wasn't even a good citizen. He probably shouldn't have gotten in the middle of a ruckus with the cops given his record.
The cops have a job that requires enforcing the safety of citizens, and were responding to a 911 call, and found a guy with an arrest warrant at the scene. They should appropriately try to apprehend him, so that the courts can determine his fate. They shot that man in the back 7 times.
The team is not "celebrating" Jacob Blake - they're trying to help bring attention to the fact that Jacob Blake did nothing that day to deserve the death penalty, and we need to fix our policing so that cops aren't the jury and the executioner so damn much.
Oh, and today's game sucked. So I'm hopeful people can at least try to have some halfway decent conversation about the black uniforms worn to remember Jacob Blake.
As someone who's close to someone who had her daughter kidnapped, for you to call Jacob Blake trying to kidnap a little girl while brandishing a knife and resisting arrest (after having previously raped a girl) a mere "ruckus," is beyond the pale.
I know I'll be banned, but go f*** yourself. It was disgusting for MU to "honor" Jacob Blake.
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Apologies for bringing it back to hoops, though I do appreciate dialogue about Jacob Blake.
The dilemma is that optimists see us in a year or two as Georgetown under John Thompson, in their highlight years. Pessimists see us as G’town under JTIII, never filling potential.
My concern is that I don’t see us trending one way or the other with Wojo, but just stagnating. And I’m getting tired of that. At the same time, I fear starting over with a new coach, and find an odd stability in “being close” and having potential, with a solid program and good recruiting. I’m torn, and want some results.
Right... as Jose “showout zay” Perez reminded us today, “grass ain’t always greener”
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Apologies for bringing it back to hoops, though I do appreciate dialogue about Jacob Blake.
The dilemma is that optimists see us in a year or two as Georgetown under John Thompson, in their highlight years. Pessimists see us as G’town under JTIII, never filling potential.
My concern is that I don’t see us trending one way or the other with Wojo, but just stagnating. And I’m getting tired of that. At the same time, I fear starting over with a new coach, and find an odd stability in “being close” and having potential, with a solid program and good recruiting. I’m torn, and want some results.
People talk up Wojo's recruiting, but really, it's pretty much been on par with Crean and Buzz. No better, no worse. Right about where it should be for a program like Marquette. What's been lacking is the results.
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I know I'll be banned, but go f*** yourself. It was disgusting for MU to "honor" Jacob Blake.
I don't ban people for disagreeing with me. You could be less disagreeable though. And while I understand you have personal feelings on the matter, when the police shot Blake, he was not threatening a child's life, and kidnappings don't get most people shot 7 times in the back when the jury hears the case..
The official written communication by the program said "in support of Jacob Blake". I get the intent from the players with the purpose behind the messaging; unfortunately, to many, "in support of Jacob Blake" inadvertently says the team, the program and the school also supports an individual...
That's a fair criticism, and Marquette's PR team should be better, but I think too many people take individual sentences and "off the cuff" opinions too literal. It's easy for me to see they're saying they don't want their black fiends and family shot at even if they end up in the same situation as Blake. That's why they "support" him. The officer may not have been charged, and they're disappointed, but it doesn't mean the officers shouldn't have handled the situation better. That's what the support is for - IMO.
Like I said. We all need to have this discussion. Because it IS important.
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The official written communication by the program said "in support of Jacob Blake". I get the intent from the players with the purpose behind the messaging; unfortunately, to many, "in support of Jacob Blake" inadvertently says the team, the program and the school also supports an individual that had a warrant for third degree sexual assault against a victim; was armed with a deadly weapon against law enforcement; had broken a restraining order; had gotten into a confrontation with police with the children of the victim inside a nearby car. To be clear, you can support criminal justice and police reform, the fight against racial and social inequalities and BLM as an entire whole, while not "supporting" or condoning the actions of one Mr. Blake leading up to this terrible incident.
The problem for Marquette University and the Marquette Basketball program, is that this was not what was communicated; it was written as "in support of Jacob Blake" without any of the background or context. It was written by emotion, and likely did not have much thought behind what was communicated or how it was said (especially since the announcement was just today). Judging by the responses on social media (on both Twitter and Instagram), I'd say that the message created much division with many alums and supporters, which is unfortunate.
"We are extremely disappointed in the decision involving Jacob's shooting and we will continue to use our platform to advocate and fight for racial justice," the program said in a statement. "This is another reminder that just because racial and social injustice hasn't received as much attention recently, doesn't mean the need to fight against it has gone away."
You cut one half of one sentence of the statement to fit an agenda. There was context.
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The official written communication by the program said "in support of Jacob Blake". I get the intent from the players with the purpose behind the messaging; unfortunately, to many, "in support of Jacob Blake" inadvertently says the team, the program and the school also supports an individual that had a warrant for third degree sexual assault against a victim; was armed with a deadly weapon against law enforcement; had broken a restraining order; had gotten into a confrontation with police with the children of the victim inside a nearby car. To be clear, you can support criminal justice and police reform, the fight against racial and social inequalities and BLM as an entire whole, while not "supporting" or condoning the actions of one Mr. Blake leading up to this terrible incident.
The problem for Marquette University and the Marquette Basketball program, is that this was not what was communicated; it was written as "in support of Jacob Blake" without any of the background or context. It was written by emotion, and likely did not have much thought behind what was communicated or how it was said (especially since the announcement was just today). Judging by the responses on social media (on both Twitter and Instagram), I'd say that the message created much division with many alums and supporters, which is unfortunate.
This is a real mic drop.
Rocky take notes.
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"We are extremely disappointed in the decision involving Jacob's shooting and we will continue to use our platform to advocate and fight for racial justice," the program said in a statement. "This is another reminder that just because racial and social injustice hasn't received as much attention recently, doesn't mean the need to fight against it has gone away."
You cut one half of one sentence of the statement to fit an agenda. There was context.
So there you go. The statement says that they are protesting a decision made by a politically elected official. This is a question of politics after all?
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"We are extremely disappointed in the decision involving Jacob's shooting and we will continue to use our platform to advocate and fight for racial justice," the program said in a statement. "This is another reminder that just because racial and social injustice hasn't received as much attention recently, doesn't mean the need to fight against it has gone away."
You cut one half of one sentence of the statement to fit an agenda. There was context.
Respectfully, could MU have not said this portion without the line that they "Support Jacob Blake". Wouldn't have that gotten the same intent and message across? Focus the message on "continuing to use our platform to advocate and fight for racial justice" and that "This is another reminder that just because racial and social injustice hasn't received as much attention recently, doesn't mean the need to fight against it has gone away."
The take away from the entire message from the team was not about racial justice or criminal justice reform; it was about the individual, Jacob Blake. I would argue that this very important takeaway clouded the very intent and purpose behind what the team was attempting to say (or at least I think they were). A lot more could have been said with less.
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So there you go. The statement says that they are protesting a decision made by a politically elected official. This is a question of politics after all?
You do realize you're inserting YOUR words into that statement to come to the conclusion.
This is a real mic drop.
Rocky take notes.
There's no "mic drops" or "winning' in this conversation. The CONVERSATION is the important part.
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So there you go. The statement says that they are protesting a decision made by a politically elected official. This is a question of politics after all?
They will continue to use their platform to advocate and fight social injustice. No. That is not political. But to the white people who benefit from it, some will try to turn it into politics.
And all this because you wanted to cry about politics being allowed on here. Yet here you are participating. Sad.
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Is it offensive to say Marquette Social Justice Warriors? Or is it only offensive when I remove the “Social Justice” part?
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They will continue to use their platform to advocate and fight social injustice. No. That is not political. But to the white people who benefit from it, some will try to turn it into politics.
And all this because you wanted to cry about politics being allowed on here. Yet here you are participating. Sad.
I’m refraining from arguing about the justness of the decision, the situation that led to the shooting, Blake’s background, any of that. That’s the political part.
My entire argument is that, yes, this issue is inherently a political issue. The justice system is a state-run mostly political machine that acts differently with different political parties in charge. If we think basic human rights would’ve called for the officer to be charged then your answer to that is voting out those responsible for the cogs in the machine that you think failed. That’s how this is politics. The team is protesting the decision. It’s right there in their statement.
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Back to the game...
- the periods in the first half where MU moved the ball and didn't run WOJO's 20 seconds of dribble hand off offense were actually quite fun to watch
- I sense in Jamal Cain's play a bit of "eff Wojo, I need to show what I can do so I can make some money next year doing this". Need more of that. Today he took and missed some tough shots, but he can create his own shot and that's needed right now.
- Need 2-3 more players to take the same approach. Go out and play basketball
The halftime adjustments by UCONN were 100% predictable. Trap Carton with the ball up top, trap the post. Uconn executed it very well. MU couldn't find the open man. Wojo never adjusted to the halftime adjustments. Just kept doing the same thing. No TO's to change the system a little. Not a single pass to the high post (which is open space when the ball is double teamed) and no other ideas how to counter the pressure.
MU lost AT HOME, from UP 18. Inexcusable.
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Back to the game...
- the periods in the first half where MU moved the ball and didn't run WOJO's 20 seconds of dribble hand off offense were actually quite fun to watch
- I sense in Jamal Cain's play a bit of "eff Wojo, I need to show what I can do so I can make some money next year doing this". Need more of that. Today he took and missed some tough shots, but he can create his own shot and that's needed right now.
- Need 2-3 more players to take the same approach. Go out and play basketball
To the first point, maybe Wojo did say "stop moving the ball and scoring so much!" but I find that hard to believe. And even if he did say that - would he really have not said "Nevermind, go back to what you were doing" at some point?
To the second and 3rd, if Cain plays well when he says "eff Wojo", why didn't he do that more in the 2nd half? If it's really working, I think other players WOULD be in on that action.
Don't get me wrong. Wojo didn't appear to do much to help the team in the second half, and when they get tentative (as they did) he needs to figure a way to get them out of that.
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Back to the game...
- the periods in the first half where MU moved the ball and didn't run WOJO's 20 seconds of dribble hand off offense were actually quite fun to watch
- I sense in Jamal Cain's play a bit of "eff Wojo, I need to show what I can do so I can make some money next year doing this". Need more of that. Today he took and missed some tough shots, but he can create his own shot and that's needed right now.
- Need 2-3 more players to take the same approach. Go out and play basketball
The halftime adjustments by UCONN were 100% predictable. Trap Carton with the ball up top, trap the post. Uconn executed it very well. MU couldn't find the open man. Wojo never adjusted to the halftime adjustments. Just kept doing the same thing. No TO's to change the system a little. Not a single pass to the high post (which is open space when the ball is double teamed) and no other ideas how to counter the pressure.
MU lost AT HOME, from UP 18. Inexcusable.
I was thinking about the Timeouts, too.
I believe that the game ended with MU having two timeouts.
During one of UConn's runs (~3-4min left), I was like "Wojo, call timeout to stop this! What are you saving them for?!?"
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MU lost AT HOME, from UP 18. Inexcusable.
I think we can all agree we should not have lost the game, but the emphasis on AT HOME is puzzling. Is it truly an advantage in the absence of fans? If so, how so?
I’m reminded of the scene from Hoosiers; the hoops are 10’ and FTs are 15’ both in Milwaukee and Storrs.
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9 turnovers and a 29 pt swing in 15 minutes...achievement unlocked?
Remimiscent of Louisville meltdown under Buzz, except this was on our home floor
And yet the apathetic mediocrity crowd is still operating full tilt.
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And yet, you were the one who felt the need to beat your chest and start a thread bashing a poster on here after we beat Wisconsin. I didn't really see the point of that, but I guess people are free to post what they like.
Unless it is posted on Facebook, Twitter etc. Freedom is a concept that does not equate anymore.
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9 pts in the last 13:55 of play.
No amount of excuses can get around that.
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Apologies for bringing it back to hoops, though I do appreciate dialogue about Jacob Blake.
The dilemma is that optimists see us in a year or two as Georgetown under John Thompson, in their highlight years. Pessimists see us as G’town under JTIII, never filling potential.
My concern is that I don’t see us trending one way or the other with Wojo, but just stagnating. And I’m getting tired of that. At the same time, I fear starting over with a new coach, and find an odd stability in “being close” and having potential, with a solid program and good recruiting. I’m torn, and want some results.
You are getting results. Same old same ol from Wojos product. Each year. Bring on the Talking Heads. "Same as it ever was"
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Less politics. More basketball.
I fully support the right of our basketball players to protest. Regardless of how any of us personally feel on an issue, they have the right to air their opinion, make their cause known peacefully and try to facilitate change.
What I disagree with is using a university basketball game as a forum to protest. The job the team had last night was to play basketball. And when you're up by 20 and lose, somehow your head isn't in what you're doing. The players may have made their point about Kenosha County last night but in the process they failed to do their job. Over time, that has the effect of diluting the forum as people expect to see a full effort focused on winning.
A good part of this issue is coaching leadership. Coaching is about preparation and orientation -- preparing your players to play and orienting them to the task at hand. The preparation and orientation last night was to win a very winnable basketball game. They didn't. That's on Coach Wojo
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Now watt Komrades, hey?
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Less politics. More basketball.
I fully support the right of our basketball players to protest. Regardless of how any of us personally feel on an issue, they have the right to air their opinion, make their cause known peacefully and try to facilitate change.
What I disagree with is using a university basketball game as a forum to protest. The job the team had last night was to play basketball. And when you're up by 20 and lose, somehow your head isn't in what you're doing. The players may have made their point about Kenosha County last night but in the process they failed to do their job. Over time, that has the effect of diluting the forum as people expect to see a full effort focused on winning.
A good part of this issue is coaching leadership. Coaching is about preparation and orientation -- preparing your players to play and orienting them to the task at hand. The preparation and orientation last night was to win a very winnable basketball game. They didn't. That's on Coach Wojo
In other words, I support the players protesting as long as it is how I would like them to protest.
Being a full time athlete on top of needing to stay eligible to be an athlete, all for $0.00 in your bank account. I expect every ounce of what you do to be about satisfying my need as a fan for wins on a basketball court, no matter what’s going on outside of the arena.
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“I know the guys are drained”
-wojo
Yes, they had no legs. Can't do in game corrections for that problem. The Packers use half time drugs, but this is college basketball, not allowed, ha.
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9 pts in the last 13:55 of play.
No amount of excuses can get around that.
There is a difference between an excuse and a reason.
The reason will be corrected.
Remember when they could not handle the press or inbound situation?
Now it's the double team down low, the corner shooters, and tired legs.
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I’ve been Projo for a long time. Like his character and the way he runs a clean program. And he represents the university well. But I’ve been on the fence this season. MU’s inability to stop UConn’s run tonight is pushing me more towards Nojo. The Nojo points on Wojo’s lack of in-game counter moves are true. And this team’s intensity tonight was no where near UConn’s.
No in-game move for tired legs.
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In other words, I support the players protesting as long as it is how I would like them to protest.
Being a full time athlete on top of needing to stay eligible to be an athlete, all for $0.00 in your bank account. I expect every ounce of what you do to be about satisfying my need as a fan for wins on a basketball court, no matter what’s going on outside of the arena.
Wrong.
What I expect is that when you have a job to do, you do it. If you want to protest, do it off the court. Do it on your own time, like the rest of us.
I long have argued that the players are paid -- about $50,000 a year, all-in based on the current list price of a Marquette education and the ancillary costs associated with attending Marquette. If you think that payment is too low, either lobby Congress to break the NCAA cartel or find an alternative, like the D league. In return for this barter transaction, a player is expected to be prepared and focused to play basketball.
If I come to work shortly and say I can't do my job today because I'm upset about Kenosha or if I use my company's name and forum to advocate a cause that diminishes our ability to attract customers and execute on our mission, how long do you think I would last in my position? Same for you, Brother BLM.
Again, I blame this on Coach Wojo. It's his job to have the players prepared and focused. Obviously, they weren't last night.
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I kept thinking about bench moves to change the dynamic and there really weren't any. Lewis was ineffective. Symir had just had a bad turnover and a dumb shot. What do do? Dexter? Osa? Had to roll with the starters.
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Agree with basically everything in your post Rocky - Jacob Blake didn’t deserve to be shot 7 times that day. But the OP said the players were wearing black to “honor Jacob Blake”. Maybe he (or the players) misspoke. But if not, I don’t see a whole lot honorable about Jacob Blake.
You know what? You are right and that's my bad. They didn't wear black to "honor Jacob Blake." They wore black "in support of Jacob Blake, his family and the Kenosha community."
Subtle difference but it is a difference. Thanks for pointing that out.
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Very discouraging loss and a bad one to have to live with for 7 days. I'm sure the team isn't happy about that 7 day wait.
It was frustrating to not see any response to the high trapping. DJ not proving to be as effective as his reputation coming in. I don't think our team is as talented as some posters here aver. Polley coming off their bench appears better than anyone we have coming off our bench.
Jamal with several good moves to the basket today but the shots were just not dropping. More of that please.
UConn really pushed us around on the boards. Thought we would be stronger there. Justin hitting the wall early but good to see Dawson have a nice game.
Sad that this happened with their best player limited due to injury.
And please take your Jacob Blake comments to the appropriate thread.
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Wrong.
What I expect is that when you have a job to do, you do it. If you want to protest, do it off the court. Do it on your own time, like the rest of us.
I long have argued that the players are paid -- about $50,000 a year, all-in based on the current list price of a Marquette education and the ancillary costs associated with attending Marquette. If you think that payment is too low, either lobby Congress to break the NCAA cartel or find an alternative, like the D league. In return for this barter transaction, a player is expected to be prepared and focused to play basketball.
If I come to work shortly and say I can't do my job today because I'm upset about Kenosha or if I use my company's name and forum to advocate a cause that diminishes our ability to attract customers and execute on our mission, how long do you think I would last in my position? Same for you, Brother BLM.
Again, I blame this on Coach Wojo. It's his job to have the players prepared and focused. Obviously, they weren't last night.
The players are not making any money. So let's expect "amateur" athletes to be entirely focused on the game at hand no matter what's going on in life, but let's not compensate them for their play.
Not to mention, was Marquette focused when building an 18 point lead and then suddenly became distracted by their pregame protest 23 minutes into the game? Sorry, but I'm just not buying that their protesting took their focus off the game.
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If you guys havn't noticed, it's the Big East and most of the schools are private and have religious affiliation. I think all or at least most wear BLM patches on their uniforms. If you don't like it root in another league. I'm sure the SWC, or the SEC, or the ACC dont have BLM patches.
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If you guys havn't noticed, it's the Big East and most of the schools are private and have religious affiliation. I think all or at least most wear BLM patches on their uniforms. If you don't like it root in another league. I'm sure the SWC, or the SEC, or the ACC dont have BLM patches.
I know for a fact the SWC doesn't wear them ! Or anything for that matter lol
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Yes, they had no legs. Can't do in game corrections for that problem. The Packers use half time drugs, but this is college basketball, not allowed, ha.
This year's ecvuse. They are tired.
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i feel like people are to casual about a loss like this. up 18 and lose by double digits? some people are just like"oops tough game,were good though. on to the next one".
What else is there to do? Get angry? Too much else going on to be worked up about Marquette, at least thats how it is for me. Its apathy. Makes no sense to invest emotional energy in a product that will only be inconsistently successful. We know what the team can do (Creighton and WI) but it becomes a tired routine when they fall flat against teams they SHOULD be able to beat.
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Very discouraging loss and a bad one to have to live with for 7 days. I'm sure the team isn't happy about that 7 day wait.
It was frustrating to not see any response to the high trapping. DJ not proving to be as effective as his reputation coming in. I don't think our team is as talented as some posters here aver. Polley coming off their bench appears better than anyone we have coming off our bench.
Jamal with several good moves to the basket today but the shots were just not dropping. More of that please.
UConn really pushed us around on the boards. Thought we would be stronger there. Justin hitting the wall early but good to see Dawson have a nice game.
Sad that this happened with their best player limited due to injury.
And please take your Jacob Blake comments to the appropriate thread.
But wait. They should be happy for the 7 day wait, because after all, "they are tired"
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Very discouraging loss and a bad one to have to live with for 7 days. I'm sure the team isn't happy about that 7 day wait.
It was frustrating to not see any response to the high trapping. DJ not proving to be as effective as his reputation coming in. I don't think our team is as talented as some posters here aver. Polley coming off their bench appears better than anyone we have coming off our bench.
Jamal with several good moves to the basket today but the shots were just not dropping. More of that please.
UConn really pushed us around on the boards. Thought we would be stronger there. Justin hitting the wall early but good to see Dawson have a nice game.
Sad that this happened with their best player limited due to injury.
And please take your Jacob Blake comments to the appropriate thread.
I think Dawson hit the wall in 2nd-half too, he was the one trying to guard Steph Curry er Polley and his offense disappeared after the awesome start
I'm not sure what to feel or think anymore, not allowed to be critical so like so many have said I guess it is time to just sit on the Apathy Bench with the sad face :(
I guess there is always next year, another great recruiting class coming in.......sigh
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Heading into the season, this was a middle of the pack team. Wins over Wisconsin and Creighton, both where we were a bit lucky to win caused higher expectations but it is clear as day that we are still a middle of the pack team.
Problem with this team does lie squarely on Wojo. His teams never have an identity. Its not defense. In fact our defensive philosophy is awful. I hate our help/rotational defense that leaves opponents wide open with any decent ball movement. Its not offense. We have little motion on the offensive of the ball. It seems like this year we are trying to get the ball down low which is great but kick outs are slow and we turn the ball over at a ridiculous rate.
Last night UConn's defensive intensity and pressure was outstanding. We had a hard time just making and catching a pass half of the time which forced us to rush our offense. Where was the motion off the ball. Why were we not passing out of the post double teams at a quicker rate with quicker passing. Positioning off the post was awful. Didn't punish them once so it kept coming.
Its not rocket science. Either Wojo doesn't know how to adjust or doesn't know how to translate his message for better execution or they don't practice any adjustments but it all falls on Wojo. I view Wojo's coaching as this. You need to try harder. You need to shoot better. You need to pass better. You need to protect the ball better. Great. Any 10 year old can figure out to say those things. The coaching part is telling them and showing them how to do those things. I think Wojo is failing miserably on those fronts, especially during games.
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Kind of missing Chico's today. The choking dogs peeing down their legs rant would be epic.
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Kind of missing Chico's today. The choking dogs peeing down their legs rant would be epic.
Buzz isn’t the coach. He’d make excuses for Wojo.
Plus, I don’t think he’s very far away.
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Kind of missing Chico's today. The choking dogs peeing down their legs rant would be epic.
Chico went after Buzz and his players but he loved him some Crean and Wojo. If he were around he would find a way to defend last night’s performance and rip anyone who didn’t do likewise.
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Kind of missing Chico's today. The choking dogs peeing down their legs rant would be epic.
“This is how things are now, so if you don’t like it, root for another team. Lots of things were going on when Buzz was here, just wait until the other shoe drops. Brendan Bailey is an all-timer.”
There, that’s your Chico fix for the day.
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You know what? You are right and that's my bad. They didn't wear black to "honor Jacob Blake." They wore black "in support of Jacob Blake, his family and the Kenosha community."
Subtle difference but it is a difference. Thanks for pointing that out.
Fluffy
Thanks for the clarification.
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Not having a bench to go to (only going eight players deep, with two of the three offering little-to-no production), once again, falls upon the responsibility and oversight of the head coach. The reality that Dex and Sy do not contribute much (if at all) should speak volumes to where Jose falls. Once again - roster construction, scholarships, recruiting - falls under the head coach.
I have yet to see a Big East team we have played that only plays with an eight-man rotation (and a severely limited one at that). This will only get more noticeable as the season goes on.
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8 man rotations isn't the issue. In fact, Duke when they beat Wisconsin and both Villanova teams that won the national titles did not go deep into their bench for a lot of minutes. The problem is the 8 guys they played were all studs, and ours are not.
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Heading into the season, this was a middle of the pack team. Wins over Wisconsin and Creighton, both where we were a bit lucky to win caused higher expectations but it is clear as day that we are still a middle of the pack team.
Problem with this team does lie squarely on Wojo. His teams never have an identity. Its not defense. In fact our defensive philosophy is awful. I hate our help/rotational defense that leaves opponents wide open with any decent ball movement. Its not offense. We have little motion on the offensive of the ball. It seems like this year we are trying to get the ball down low which is great but kick outs are slow and we turn the ball over at a ridiculous rate.
Last night UConn's defensive intensity and pressure was outstanding. We had a hard time just making and catching a pass half of the time which forced us to rush our offense. Where was the motion off the ball. Why were we not passing out of the post double teams at a quicker rate with quicker passing. Positioning off the post was awful. Didn't punish them once so it kept coming.
Its not rocket science. Either Wojo doesn't know how to adjust or doesn't know how to translate his message for better execution or they don't practice any adjustments but it all falls on Wojo. I view Wojo's coaching as this. You need to try harder. You need to shoot better. You need to pass better. You need to protect the ball better. Great. Any 10 year old can figure out to say those things. The coaching part is telling them and showing them how to do those things. I think Wojo is failing miserably on those fronts, especially during games.
I strongly agree with this. My only hesitation is with "middle of the pack." Its technically accurate, but since we are almost always finishing in the lower half of our league it doesn't seem to really capture where we are. "Below average" or "Top 60%" don't work either. The feeling of futility I get watching Wojo's teams is missing from that description.
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8 man rotations isn't the issue. In fact, Duke when they beat Wisconsin and both Villanova teams that won the national titles did not go deep into their bench for a lot of minutes. The problem is the 8 guys they played were all studs, and ours are not.
Right. And 9-11 apparently can give us absolutely nothing. Dex has been pretty bad in his appearances. Osa is as raw as hell. And Jose is? I don't know...
The fact is we have a couple players who have the POTENTIAL of being real studs: DJ and Dawson. Maybe even Lewis too.
The rest are essentially replacement level who have the ability to play above that for a game or two, but that's about it.
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I strongly agree with this. My only hesitation is with "middle of the pack." Its technically accurate, but since we are almost always finishing in the lower half of our league it doesn't seem to really capture where we are. "Below average" or "Top 60%" don't work either. The feeling of futility I get watching Wojo's teams is missing from that description.
Agree with this assessment as well. No identity 7 years in of what a Wojo team is. I'd like a good team next year and by all accounts we should have a more experienced team, but they'll be young in a couple important spots and the ingredients will be the same for Wojo to live in the middle of the pack.
Another thing I don't see mentioned around here is how physically weak we look. For all the love Todd Smith has gotten over the years, I really don't see it. Maybe there was a shift in philosophy post Buzz and the supposed freedom of movement era, but our guys our apt to getting manhandled.
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i feel like people are to casual about a loss like this. up 18 and lose by double digits? some people are just like"oops tough game,were good though. on to the next one".
Sadly, that's what 7 years of the same old garbage turns people into
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Right. And 9-11 apparently can give us absolutely nothing. Dex has been pretty bad in his appearances. Osa is as raw as hell. And Jose is? I don't know...
The fact is we have a couple players who have the POTENTIAL of being real studs: DJ and Dawson. Maybe even Lewis too.
The rest are essentially replacement level who have the ability to play above that for a game or two, but that's about it.
What are you seeing to determine DJ's potential to become a "real stud?" Just because he was highly ranked coming out of HS doesn't mean anything, or are you forgetting Dameon Mason?
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What are you seeing to determine DJ's potential to become a "real stud?" Just because he was highly ranked coming out of HS doesn't mean anything, or are you forgetting Dameon Mason?
Oh he's better than Mason.
I see a guy who sees the floor well, is quick, and can get to the basket. He needs to tighten up his handle and develop a more consistent outside shot.
And that's just potential. That doesn't mean he will. He will undoubtedly approve but maybe not to the level I think / hope.
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Right. And 9-11 apparently can give us absolutely nothing. Dex has been pretty bad in his appearances. Osa is as raw as hell. And Jose is? I don't know...
The fact is we have a couple players who have the POTENTIAL of being real studs: DJ and Dawson. Maybe even Lewis too.
The rest are essentially replacement level who have the ability to play above that for a game or two, but that's about it.
The problem or challenge is that Lewis, Garcia, and Oso (I like Oso's future) are all first year players, getting experience, ups and downs, as expected. They are not to be counted on as the team's best players in their first season. Contribute? Sure. Get better as rhe season goes, sure.
Where are those veteran players? Best on the team players? Especially in the backcourt and on the wing. To this point it has been good enough to be a mid 60's KenPom or NCAA Net team, which isn't good enough. We'll see where it finishes.
This year's team has the feel that Frosh and newcomers need to do more than some other years. While good, these are not one and done type recruits. And that is okay, that is not the problem. The problem is not having a better, deeper roster elsewhere.
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8 man rotations isn't the issue. In fact, Duke when they beat Wisconsin and both Villanova teams that won the national titles did not go deep into their bench for a lot of minutes. The problem is the 8 guys they played were all studs, and ours are not.
Yeah, knot 'nough 5 stars, aina?
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Yeah, knot 'nough 5 stars, aina?
If only he had all his borderline 5 stars at once Henry Joey Markus Dawson and DJ would've been a solid 6 seed under Wojo. Good enough for lifetime job security now days.
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The problem or challenge is that Lewis, Garcia, and Oso (I like Oso's future) are all first year players, getting experience, ups and downs, as expected. They are not to be counted on as the team's best players in their first season. Contribute? Sure. Get better as rhe season goes, sure.
Where are those veteran players? Best on the team players? Especially in the backcourt and on the wing. To this point it has been good enough to be a mid 60's KenPom or NCAA Net team, which isn't good enough. We'll see where it finishes.
This year's team has the feel that Frosh and newcomers need to do more than some other years. While good, these are not one and done type recruits. And that is okay, that is not the problem. The problem is not having a better, deeper roster elsewhere.
Which has been my point about expectations all along. This looked like a rebuilding year to me. 10 players, 5 frosh, 3 role players and a starter who only played half the minutes.
Now, if you want to make the argument about whose fault the roster composition is, we can find common ground. Wojo has never recruited a switchable nor used all of his schollies. Depth issues and flexibility issues.
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Which has been my point about expectations all along. This looked like a rebuilding year to me. 10 players, 5 frosh, 3 role players and a starter who only played half the minutes.
Now, if you want to make the argument about whose fault the roster composition is, we can find common ground. Wojo has never recruited a switchable nor used all of his schollies. Depth issues and flexibility issues.
Why am I to lower my almost annual expectations? I am not interested in lowering my program expectations. When you are more successful in your first six years, you get to have rebuilding years in year 7.
I will happily support the players, and coaches, and I wish them the best each game and practice.
But at some point roster construction counts, coaching counts, the final score counts.
I can get the team a spot in the A league at the Rec Center if we want to lower expectations.
Perhaps we can go back to several teams at a time in the far back of the basement of the Old Gym, in the weight room?
We can do those things.
Or, we can have reasonable expectations annually. I'd like to think my expectations are reasonable.
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For high-major college basketball programs, like Marquette, unless there is a scandal or a major coaching change, they should never need to be a substantial rebuild. These programs should be retooling. Within conference, the shining beacon is Villanova. They are nationally elite year-in and year-out, moving-in and moving-out players. The culture is there and the coaching is there. Creighton does it. Xavier looks to be roaring back. Even Seton Hall this year, which lost Powell, McKnight and Gill, is 5-1 in the Big East; they do not appear to have lost a step. If a program like Marquette needs to rebuild under a seventh-year head coach, something very wrong occurred. Alas, I'd also argue only having a true rotation of six-players (since the other two of our eight-man rotation do not offer anything production-wise) is another example of something very wrong having occurred.
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Very poor night for Wojo. The offense just stopped. The defense fell apart. The rebounding was non-existent. We were outhustled.
He has had a few good games this season, but too few. And last night certainly wasn't one of them.
But at least he'll carry a time-out over to the next game.
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Which has been my point about expectations all along. This looked like a rebuilding year to me. 10 players, 5 frosh, 3 role players and a starter who only played half the minutes.
Now, if you want to make the argument about whose fault the roster composition is, we can find common ground. Wojo has never recruited a switchable nor used all of his schollies. Depth issues and flexibility issues.
Tower, come on.. a rebuilding year? isn't that what the last 6 seasons have been?
Maybe I'll count the last year the Hauser's were here as a solid year, but other than that, wojo is just building sand castles.
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Which has been my point about expectations all along. This looked like a rebuilding year to me. 10 players, 5 frosh, 3 role players and a starter who only played half the minutes.
Now, if you want to make the argument about whose fault the roster composition is, we can find common ground. Wojo has never recruited a switchable nor used all of his schollies. Depth issues and flexibility issues.
You have to actually build something before you can rebuild it.