T-Black

[kmwtrucks]

My only thought on the Mid Year eligibility would be is this.  I thought that if he was not on a basketball roster this year and not playing that would have been a possiblity, but I would be shocked if the NCAA would let him play 8 games at a JC, and then 18 games for MU.  That would just seem against what the NCAA would like.

In all honesty I really do not know.

[bma725]

Does Coleman have to go to JUCO, does anyone have new info about him because just today ESPNs recruiting page main story has Coleman on the front.  The article http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/basketball/mens/news/story?id=4619108  and it seems as though he has always had Marquette has his first choice.

No one will know for sure whether he's going the JUCO route until his school year is over.  But given what's been said by those in the know, his grades are not something he'll be able to make up by doing well this year so we shouldn't even be thinking about him as a possibility.

ESPN and the other services don't like to talk about academics, so the fact that the kid may not play college b-ball until 2012 is not important to them.

[chapman]

IF a Novak-type shooter is available then yes, I agree that that would be a good snag.

But I think that the other real need is a JUCO PG to come in an provide some minutes at the 1.  Jeff Goodman from Fox Sports said it himself, DJO is NOT a true PG and looks a little uncomfortable there and the same goes for Buycks.  We don't know what kind of player Cadougan is going to be yet and we have several versatile 2's and 3's on next year's roster (Blue projects as more of a 2)...I think we need to bring in a TRUE PG to provide some reliability and depth at a position that will really be an unknown for us next season.

But again, if a LIGHTS OUT shooter is available (who isn't 6'0" tall)...it's hard to pass on him...either of those scenarios would be fine with me...

I'm still sticking with not wanting another point guard.  Unless we're concerned about injuries, this player won't belong on the court.  I said the following in another thread and I think it rings even more true if we have Black taking up healthy minutes at the 4-5:

I'd rather play someone who isn't a "100% true point guard" but has talent.  With Butler, Jones, Maymon, Fulce, Williams, and anyone who fills the two open slots, and maybe some minutes in a small lineup for Blue/DJO/Buycks, the 3-4 are covered.  You have 80 minutes per game to give at the point and 2.  If Cadougan's healthy he would be good for 25+, Blue could be good enough to get 30+, Buycks as a senior and a healthy DJO with this year to get experience could get 20+ each.  If it boils down to a Juco junior or 2-star freshman to have a "true" point guard, give me Blue or Buycks at the point instead rather than limiting their time on the floor for lesser talent.  If there aren't any injuries, any new 2010 guard would have to get redshirted.  A pure shooter might be the exception, but they would still be getting maybe 5 minutes per game.

If we want a Juco/2-star freshman point guard for depth, they should be prepared to be redshirted if no injuries occur.  There's no way to justify putting them on the floor because they won't have the value of playing Buycks as a senior or a top player like Blue slightly out of position. 

I'll say go with the best player available.  If it's a four star point guard that is good enough to compete with Cadougan for time instead of a "fill-in", then sure.  If it's a 6'11" tree, go ahead.  The other option that hasn't been really discussed is taking a transfer.  We haven't had one since Acker, but we seem to have the luxury of taking someong with a year or two of D1 experience to sit for a year and play in 2011-2012.

[kmwtrucks]

making the giant assumption that we bring in Black along with Blue and Jones, and the rest of our roster stays the same.  IE we only have 1 more SHIP open.  It has to be a someone that can handle the ball.  It may not have to be a pure point, But 4 gaurds on a roster is not enough, you have to have 5.  Think about when Travis went down, and we were short ballhandler's.  We were terrible.

[4everwarriors]

Yeah, but that was when we had an idiot for a coach.

[PBRme]

I am not worried about the JUCO route and evening scholarships.  If you keep bringing in better talent some of it will depart for the NBA early and all the worry was for naught

[tower912]

Assuming that Black comes to MU and no roster changes (because that is guaranteed  ), now is the time to take a Christopherson/Chapman type.    A 6'4 shooter who may need to develop in other areas.     Gives you a 5th guard, opens up some three guard sets, etc. 

[Blackhat]

I'd rather take a defensive specialist than a low ceiling Christopherson, Chapman type who will probably transfer eventually anyway.


Another banger, or Carson DesRosier skill set in a perfect world.

Otherwise the best all around guard you can find. 

[MU_Iceman]

If we want a Juco/2-star freshman point guard for depth, they should be prepared to be redshirted if no injuries occur.  There's no way to justify putting them on the floor because they won't have the value of playing Buycks as a senior or a top player like Blue slightly out of position. 

I'll say go with the best player available.  If it's a four star point guard that is good enough to compete with Cadougan for time instead of a "fill-in", then sure.  If it's a 6'11" tree, go ahead.  The other option that hasn't been really discussed is taking a transfer.  We haven't had one since Acker, but we seem to have the luxury of taking someong with a year or two of D1 experience to sit for a year and play in 2011-2012.

There are a number of reasons why a JUCO PG is the right move:

1)  It helps balance out the classes (which is a goal of Buzz's)

• You aren't going to get a Freshman PG to come to MU next year because, technically, Cadougan is going to be a frosh.  HS kids commit because they see a role for themselves.  If a highly regarded PG is already there AND would be in the same graduating class, you have no shot at landing the HS kid

2)  A JUCO PG is more likely to commit to a back up role than a HS kid

• In many cases, these JUCO kids are simply looking for an opportunity to contribute on a bigger stage.  He would come in knowing his role and, unlike the 2-star HS PG you reference, he would have some experience playing against better competition

3)  Strong PG play is what wins in March

• Now let me clarify this, obviously it is important to have an inside presence, but in our situation - if Black were to commit - MU's roster would have three guards who are heralded as scorers (Buycks, DJO, Blue), we have a great deal of depth when it comes to versatile forwards who are 6'6" to 6'8" (Butler, Fulce, Maymon, E-Will, Jamail Jones, Black) and two guys over 6'10" (O'Tule, Mbao)...what good are any of them if you don't have players who can beat pressure and distribute the ball...because while adding a shooter or big man is always great, you only have JR to run the point...and let us not forget that he has never played a college game AND he's coming off of a VERY serious injury
  
  We all preach the importance of a balanced roster...but it's more important for a team to have a roster that is well balanced BY POSITION than it is a roster that is well balanced by graduation class...we NEED another PG on this roster come next year...
  

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[chapman]

There are a number of reasons why a JUCO PG is the right move:

1)  It helps balance out the classes (which is a goal of Buzz's)

• You aren't going to get a Freshman PG to come to MU next year because, technically, Cadougan is going to be a frosh.  HS kids commit because they see a role for themselves.  If a highly regarded PG is already there AND would be in the same graduating class, you have no shot at landing the HS kid

2)  A JUCO PG is more likely to commit to a back up role than a HS kid

• In many cases, these JUCO kids are simply looking for an opportunity to contribute on a bigger stage.  He would come in knowing his role and, unlike the 2-star HS PG you reference, he would have some experience playing against better competition

3)  Strong PG play is what wins in March

• Now let me clarify this, obviously it is important to have an inside presence, but in our situation - if Black were to commit - MU's roster would have three guards who are heralded as scorers (Buycks, DJO, Blue), we have a great deal of depth when it comes to versatile forwards who are 6'6" to 6'8" (Butler, Fulce, Maymon, E-Will, Jamail Jones, Black) and two guys over 6'10" (O'Tule, Mbao)...what good are any of them if you don't have players who can beat pressure and distribute the ball...because while adding a shooter or big man is always great, you only have JR to run the point...and let us not forget that he has never played a college game AND he's coming off of a VERY serious injury
  
  We all preach the importance of a balanced roster...but it's more important for a team to have a roster that is well balanced BY POSITION than it is a roster that is well balanced by graduation class...we NEED another PG on this roster come next year...
  

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I'm still not convinced that it's at all a need.  I just don't see where you justify cutting minutes for Cadougan, Blue, or Buycks to fit a much less talented Juco point guard in the mix next year.  Put Blue at the point when Cadougan is on the bench.  Especially with Black there would be so much depth at the 3-5 that Blue will not be sliding over to the 3 and have to get minutes at the 1-2.  Unless you want to cut Buycks and DJO down to 10 combined minutes then you put Blue at the point.  Blue would be a better point guard option than any Juco junior who would come for two years to sit on our bench.  He's not billed at just a scorer, but a very good passer who sees the court well.  You're not going to find a Juco point guard that you would want on the floor over Blue.  The following year you can afford to do it; with Buycks, Butler, and Fulce gone there will be more time for Blue at the 2-3, which is why you're better off taking a transfer or waiting a year on a point guard.

[bilsu]

We will know by the spring signing period if we need another point guard. DJO and/or Buyckes will show whether they can or cannot play point guard. Buzz will know alot more on how Cadougan is healing.

[lurch91]

Assuming that Black comes to MU and no roster changes (because that is guaranteed  ), now is the time to take a Christopherson/Chapman type.    A 6'4 shooter who may need to develop in other areas.     Gives you a 5th guard, opens up some three guard sets, etc. 

If you do this, I would imagine that this player would be redshirted his freshman year.  It could work, but I would hate for the kid to think the sky is his limit (a la Rosebrough) only to find out he's a bad player in the NCAA's best conference.

[GOMU1104]

Buzz has said he wants 5 guards on his roster.

For 2010, we currently have 4 guards on the roster (DB, DJO, JC, VB).  Therefore...I believe there will be another guard added to this 2010 class.

This doesnt mean it will be a guard that will demand/expect/deserve much PT...but rather one that understands what is role will be.

Could be a JUCO or a HS player.

[MR.HAYWARD]

who necessarily says he takes minutes from anyone?  i agree bring in a juco Pg and he get acker minutes like acker got when DJ was healthy.. a minute or two  ahalf but not all the time and then a few mop up mintues in blow outs.  a pure backup. 
now are you going to get a 3 star player to sign up for that no. or a juco AA...no.  but maybe a kid who was a 1 or 2 star player in hs who has gotten better and matured skill wise and physically and would be acceptable with being brought in as a back up. that would be happy with that role given the opportunity to play in the BE and be a part of a really good team for two yerars and get a great degree.

 

I'm still not convinced that it's at all a need.  I just don't see where you justify cutting minutes for Cadougan, Blue, or Buycks to fit a much less talented Juco point guard in the mix next year.  Put Blue at the point when Cadougan is on the bench.  Especially with Black there would be so much depth at the 3-5 that Blue will not be sliding over to the 3 and have to get minutes at the 1-2.  Unless you want to cut Buycks and DJO down to 10 combined minutes then you put Blue at the point.  Blue would be a better point guard option than any Juco junior who would come for two years to sit on our bench.  He's not billed at just a scorer, but a very good passer who sees the court well.  You're not going to find a Juco point guard that you would want on the floor over Blue.  The following year you can afford to do it; with Buycks, Butler, and Fulce gone there will be more time for Blue at the 2-3, which is why you're better off taking a transfer or waiting a year on a point guard.

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[chapman]

who necessarily says he takes minutes from anyone?  i agree bring in a juco Pg and he get acker minutes like acker got when DJ was healthy.. a minute or two  ahalf but not all the time and then a few mop up mintues in blow outs.  a pure backup. 
now are you going to get a 3 star player to sign up for that no. or a juco AA...no.  but maybe a kid who was a 1 or 2 star player in hs who has gotten better and matured skill wise and physically and would be acceptable with being brought in as a back up. that would be happy with that role given the opportunity to play in the BE and be a part of a really good team for two yerars and get a great degree.

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You just proved my point.  You described a player that can't get minutes on any other team and will only play if someone gets hurt.  The Blackledge of point guards.  And as I said, we don't need that player like has been suggested. It's just extra, hardly necessary depth.  In that case bringing in a player to play walk-on minutes in case someone gets hurt would be no more valuable than bringing in another wing who is halfway decent in case someone transfers.

[MR.HAYWARD]

well chapman you need to be realistic here...there are 13 available scholarships but show me a team that hey all get minutes.  the point simply is next year you have blue, buycks djo and junior.  4 is fine unless one gets hurt...sort of like this year a guy like acker is not reaally needed unless. ....doh!   i will be impossible to get a good one but a capable player ala a trend type pg just might come in handy if for no other reason than to save a guy in mop up time.  nice thing with a juco to is you can refill his scolie in 2 years when guard playing time will be reopening

[MU_Iceman]

well chapman you need to be realistic here...there are 13 available scholarships but show me a team that hey all get minutes.  the point simply is next year you have blue, buycks djo and junior.  4 is fine unless one gets hurt...sort of like this year a guy like acker is not reaally needed unless. ....doh!   i will be impossible to get a good one but a capable player ala a trend type pg just might come in handy if for no other reason than to save a guy in mop up time.  nice thing with a juco to is you can refill his scolie in 2 years when guard playing time will be reopening

+100000000000000

Chapman, there isn't a team in the NCAA that plays all 13 players even minutes...every team is going to have a "scrub"...in fact, they'll probably have a "scrub" at every position.

PG is arguably the most important position on your roster.  Now you keep talking like JR is going to come in like a 5th year, senior, all-american who has no lingering health issues and can give us 40 minutes a game...even if he was that player, I don't think you'd find a coach in the college basketball ranks who would say that he didn't feel that a back-up pg was necessary...you need to have a security blanket when people get into fould trouble, for mop up time, and when, god forbid, someone get's hurt.  If they don't bring in a back up and JR goes down, you honestly would be comfortable with a bunch of off guards trying to run your offense and guard another team's pg? 

[chapman]

nice thing with a juco to is you can refill his scolie in 2 years when guard playing time will be reopening

Or you could bank it or get a transfer, because then Buycks, Butler, and Fulce leave there will be minutes to fill in one year with a worthwhile player instead of keeping a waste on your team for two.

The simple fact is Cadougan can give us 20 minutes and we would be fine.  Blue won't be playing much, if at all at the 3 when you have Jones, Butler, Williams, Fulce, Maymon, this hypothetical Black, Otule, and Mbao at the 3-5.  Blue is probably a better point guard than any Juco player in the country, much less some scrub that realistically would have low-major talent.  If Blue would play the point for 20 minutes and the 2 guard for ten, you would still have just 30 minutes for Buycks and DJO to play combined so you miss nothing.  If Cadougan would turn out to be a 5 mpg player or (God forbid) Blue would miss any time to injury, then sure give me a backup point guard.  But in the same situation, if Black would come in and get hurt, then we'd be right back at square one of wanting a powerful 4/5, so we'd like an extra one of those for depth too.  Assuming no one gets hurt, this last player is competing for time where there isn't any regardless of position.  If they can distribute the ball, they might get 4 minutes every other game.  If they can shoot, same thing.  If they're big and can sit in the middle, same thing.  It's nice to have X or Y, but we don't have this glaring "need" for anyone if we land Black.

[wadesworld]

Can we move these side conversations about who we recruit next into the other threads that are about other recruits and where to go next?  I keep coming on here hoping to find any updated information on Traik Black's situation and I have to read through a page and a half of other stuff.

[VegasWarrior77]

Can we move these side conversations about who we recruit next into the other threads that are about other recruits and where to go next?  I keep coming on here hoping to find any updated information on Traik Black's situation and I have to read through a page and a half of other stuff.

+1,000,000

I'm looking for updates too.

[wadesworld]

http://northcarolina.scout.com/a.z?s=78&p=2&c=917778&ssf=1&RequestedURL=http%3a%2f%2fnorthcarolina.scout.com%2f2%2f917778.html

I'm just searching Google for Tarik Black and this article came up with the preview saying "With Black, Marquette is beginning to make a strong move. But Memphis, Tennessee , Florida and Alabama are still on his list. Recently Tarik's mother ..."

Can anybody who has a Scout account inform us of any new information or what Tarik's mother said?  It would be greatly appreciated.

[Nukem2]

Buzz has said he wants 5 guards on his roster.

For 2010, we currently have 4 guards on the roster (DB, DJO, JC, VB).  Therefore...I believe there will be another guard added to this 2010 class.

This doesnt mean it will be a guard that will demand/expect/deserve much PT...but rather one that understands what is role will be.

Could be a JUCO or a HS player.

I think you can add Jamail Jones to the guard group.  From what I've read on him, he souds pretty much like a Wes Matthews clone.

[LastWarrior]

http://northcarolina.scout.com/a.z?s=78&p=2&c=917778&ssf=1&RequestedURL=http%3a%2f%2fnorthcarolina.scout.com%2f2%2f917778.html

I'm just searching Google for Tarik Black and this article came up with the preview saying "With Black, Marquette is beginning to make a strong move. But Memphis, Tennessee , Florida and Alabama are still on his list. Recently Tarik's mother ..."

Can anybody who has a Scout account inform us of any new information or what Tarik's mother said?  It would be greatly appreciated.

Old news but here it is...

"With Black, Marquette is beginning to make a strong move. But Memphis, Tennessee, Florida and Alabama are still on his list. Recently Tarik’s mother – Judith – told Scout.com the plan was for him to sign late."

[esotericmindguy]

Update from http://thememphisedge.com/

[Comment From MikeMike: ]
Tarik Black? Any updates on where he is leaning? Do you think JJ and WB are helping to recruit him?
Tuesday November 10, 2009 11:29 Mike
11:30
   
   
Dan Wolken:
I talked to someone last night who is very closely connected to the Tarik Black situation. He told me that he has no idea what Black is going to do. Again, if Memphis has other bigs ready to go, they are going to go ahead and sign them and not wait for Black to make a decision. He's had every opportunity. I know that Jackson, Barton and Crawford are working him hard.

Looks like no one knows anything.

[Hards Alumni]

Good for the kid.  I wish more recruits kept their decisions to themselves rather than having different things leak to different schools.

leaks tend to do more damage than good.  I respect TB for playing it close to his chest.