Kolek planning to go pro
Nothing that you said changes the fact that expectations have been lowered.
I'll stick with my opinion on Gold. He'll be in foul trouble within the first eight minutes.
Let me ask you a hypothetical then.Since the standard was set during Crean's tenure (according to you) say Crean rejects I4. Mindset of "I've been here almost a decade, I've brought them a FF, I've got a great Senior class, my popularity is going to skyrocket once my check for the soccer stadium clears". He then proceeds exactly to recreate what he had done. NCAA appearance 55% of the time (5 of 9 years), NCAA win 22% of the seasons (2 of 9), making it past the first weekend 11% of the time (1 of 9). Do you think the fan base would be happy with him?
It's great to be a Wojo supporter, I admire your optimism and hope he does well. But Wojo is not in Crean's class as a coach. This is where Pro-Jo's start to loose the argument. No different than claiming Wojo is the worst coach ever.
I'm a Marquette supporter, and since I have no say in who the coach is, I support whoever the coach currently is. Same question to you, that you conveniently ignored. 55% bid rate, 22% win rate, 11% multi-win rate, these are the ratios that our "high expectations" are based on. Let's do the math, a bid this year would have gotten Wojo to 50% bid rate (this was a guarantee in my eye, others may disagree). IF he had won a game that would have been 16%, so 6 percent below Crean, and he would have either been 11 below or 5 percent above in the multi-win rate.Lets say we get a bid next year (by no means a guarantee), Wojo is up to 57% bid rate (above Crean), a win + potentially a win this year would put him at 28% win rate (above Crean) S16 or better (either this or next year) would put him at 14% (above Crean). As much as my being a MU fan may cause me to have a glue and gold tint regarding whomever the current coach is, being a Nojo-er by default give you a pro Crean or Buzz tint. I can admit my biases, can you admit yours?
Fans will always want more. From Duke to Akron, I’m sure you can find supporters who have expectations which are insurmountable for the program. That’s not exclusive to Marquette. Your hypothetical still doesn’t address that Marquette very recently had a much higher floor than it does now.
Please actually read my posts completely. This "floor" that you asserted as starting during the Crean era is a bid percentage of 55, Wojo is at 50. That hardly constitutes "much higher". I think that you may have an inflated view of certain era's because of one great season. Crean got us a FF, and that shouldn't be taken away from him, but that is the one year that he won more than 1 tourney game, and he only managed to win one tourney game without Wade. Unless Crean was "failing to meet expectations too", because, as others have said, Wojo is pretty much Crean without Wade, to date.
You must not have been around when Crean took over at MU. He did an amazing job considering where MU was with conference affiliation and practice facilities. Wojo has way more assets to work with (and I mean relative to where budgets were and are today). There is a very good reason IU hired him. Not even the most Pro-Jo would think a school like IU would hire Wojo. Also, if we are playing "what if's", what if Crean stayed and took MU to a Final Four every 5 years? (Something he did as opposed to your "what if" of Wojo winning a NCAA game). Would you admit he is a better coach than Wojo?I went from 100% support of his extension a year ago to off the bandwagon this past season. I guess I'll admit his performance has made me biased against him being coach. I am also biased for coaches that go to Elite 8 and Final Fours.
Did somone say it will be impressive to make the NIT?
I can’t continue this debate if you’re seriously comparing Wojo to Crean.
Yea, why would we compare two MU coaches, that's silly.
Because one has more regular season and post season success than the other. How is this debatable?
I went back to post FF run as most would say that was the moment our program took a significant step forward. 05/06 - 4th place finish 7 seed06/07 - 6th place finish 8 seed 07/08 - 6th place finish 6 seed 08/09 - 5th place finish 6 seed 09/10 - 5th place finish 6 seed 10/11 - 9th place finish 11 seed 11/12 - 2nd place finish 3 seed12/13 - Tied for 1st 3 seedNBE 13/14 - 6th no tournament Wojo 14/15 - 9th no tournament 15/16 - 7th no tournament 16/17 - tied for 3rd 10 seed 17/18 - tied for 6th no tournament 18/19 - 2nd 6th seed19/20 - 6th projected on the 9/10 line So after looking back, is the bar not significantly lower when we barely got in (19/20 and 16/17) and 18/19 which was a monumentally bad collapse only to be rivaled by the 19/20 collapse? Getting into the tournament has been the minimum expectation with this program with Buzz and Crean. With Wojo, getting in the tournament is somehow a saving grace...Expectations lowered.
You must not have seen what was here in terms of players when Wojo arrived.We can actually play that "what if" because Crean has continued to coach. If he'd gotten a FF every 5 years, or even another one, I'd say that he was unequivocally better than Wojo. Instead his bid % has dropped from 55 while at MU to 45 overall, and despite having more talent on a few of those I4 teams than he ever had at MU (2003 aside).You, among a lot here, seem to judge primarily on post-season success, so I find it a bit confusing how you've gone from 100% on board to 100% off board when literally every coach in the country gets an incomplete this season.
I know Wojo only had 4 or 5 top 100 players? Crean had 4 or 5 McDonald's All Americans. Deane was great recruiter and Crean walked into an awesome situation.I think it's foolish to compare Crean to Wojo. I think there are better and more logical arguments to support Wojo but this is not one. I am off the Wojo bandwagon because he has not had a PG in 6 years and he also could not win at a high level with an AA talent in Howard. I hate to say it but I believe '18-'19 was the high water mark for Wojo.Can we agree next year looks like an NIT year if all goes well and a reasonable expectation is .500? It's not what I hope for after 6 years. I hope I am 100% wrong but it looks to me like the trajectory of the program is going down.
The other has been a head coach for 6 years and had his most successful season last year, indicating that he may still be growing in his abilities as a coach.
False. 2 years ago was way better. MU was not going to be better than a 5 seed last year. We were going to be a 9-11 seed. Plus we will not make it this year so the indications are that he is NOT growing as a coach.
I certainly wouldn't agree to this at all. One of the reasons that i dug those old Goose and WOTL posts out was to show how foolish it is to make these grand March predictions in November. I think it is even more foolish to make them the April before. Our roster could look very different in just a couple of days, the non-conference schedule is months from being released. Year-to-year growth by players (and coaches) is at best, not an exact science, and at worse a crapshoot. There is so much that can happen between now and March 2021. I doubt it would happen, but the idea of no basketball at all next year is not as far fetched as it was a couple of weeks ago.
I didn't make it clear, we're talking about the same year. In my head the 19/20 season didn't end. 18/19 was his peak to date, 19/20 was a step back, 20/21 is TDB although you seem to be writing us off already. Solid fandom
Next year will be interesting. We lost a great player in Howard. However, Howard was absolutely terrible when the game was on the line. Of course every opposing coach knew he would have the ball. However, that does not excuse Howard from more than once trying to split 2 defenders and losing the ball.
Okay, fair enough, I agree there is a chance we make it into the Tourney IF we add a PG and other players. But as presently constituted, this is not an NCAA team. Not my opinion or fellow Scooper's opinions but ESPN's and Vegas'. (they maybe No-Jo's too?)I think expecting this team to be better than .500 is terribly unfair to the team, and if that is the expectation, then the fan base and maybe the AD will run Wojo out of town.
Yes, I hate MU. That's why I'm on this board. I am a booster (not big) of MUBB but I am not a fan. Classy. Are you going to call me a racist next?You don't see me questioning your fandom because you secretly want MU to be below average by keeping Wojo.