Enrollment

[#UnleashSean]

Standardized tests don't work. The adversity score screws anyone not from a city. Need another system.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Schools are making them optional for reasons of diversity.  We have administrators here in the UC system that admitted that several years ago and it but them as a result.  Now the new mantra is what you are stating.

Right. Because schools like Chicago are seeing that disadvantaged students, who often don’t have the benefit of tutoring and classes geared toward ACT and SAT prep, are performing just as well despite lower test scores. They have seen no drop off in performance or graduation rates.

Again it actually shows that those tests are not a determination of college success.

[Cheeks]

Right. Because schools like Chicago are seeing that disadvantaged students, who often don’t have the benefit of tutoring and classes geared toward ACT and SAT prep, are performing just as well despite lower test scores. They have seen no drop off in performance or graduation rates.

Again it actually shows that those tests are not a determination of college success.

Those with better test scores, especially in STEM fields, perform better in school.

As for the money argument and performance, in the ACT as a family’s income increases on the scale, students receive better scores except for the two highest income brackets where they actually begin to go the other way...not linear improvement.   The bigger question might be why those kids in those crappy school districts don’t have a choice to be educated elsewhere, but that will go down a rabbit hole here.

[Cheeks]

Standardized tests don't work. The adversity score screws anyone not from a city. Need another system.

Does MCAT work by and large?  How about GMAT or GRE?  How about LSAT?


We will agree to disagree.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Those with better test scores, especially in STEM fields, perform better in school.

As for the money argument and performance, in the ACT as a family’s income increases on the scale, students receive better scores except for the two highest income brackets where they actually begin to go the other way...not linear improvement.   The bigger question might be why those kids in those crappy school districts don’t have a choice to be educated elsewhere, but that will go down a rabbit hole here.

I’m going to go with the increasing number of schools that are making it optional over your opinion on the matter.

I think Marquette should follow suit. Four years of work is much more important than one day of work anyway.

[forgetful]

Standardized tests don't work. The adversity score screws anyone not from a city. Need another system.

Agreed in part.

No, the adversity score was designed in part to help rural disadvantaged students. Go to rural Mississippi/Alabama etc, and look at the teaching/school resources and tell me they are on a level playing field. The adversity score is meant to help kids from this type of background.

[forgetful]

Does MCAT work by and large?  How about GMAT or GRE?  How about LSAT?


We will agree to disagree.

The GMAT, GRE, and LSAT are largely useless. The GRE most useless amongst them.

The MCAT is useful, but becoming less so as testing companies provide info to people like Kaplan, to help them design courses/materials to beat the exam, such as breakdown/emphasis of questions for that years exam. That leads to people shelling out thousands of dollars for tutoring/courses doing better, because they know the general material, not because they are smarter.

The MCAT changed emphasis a few years back, and Kaplan and students were pissed, because the courses didn't get the right emphasis and students taking the courses didn't do any better than people not taking it. Confirming that resources, not ability, were dictating significant differences in test scores.

Med schools use the MCAT, but have the largest "diversity" scoring system you can imagine. They balance classes for everything, Male/Female, White/Black/Hispanic, Married/Single, Rural/City/Foreign, Young/Old, and on and on. The schools have found that having a diverse pool of students, better prepares them as medical professionals that have to serve a diverse population. So if you want to say the MCAT is working, then you also have to admit that diversity scoring is very beneficial.

[Cheeks]

I’m going to go with the increasing number of schools that are making it optional over your opinion on the matter.

I think Marquette should follow suit. Four years of work is much more important than one day of work anyway.

And Lenny thinks you and I are the same people with 100% certainty.  Lol

I agree 4 years is way more important than one day.  Ironically my daughter is taking the SAT at this very moment and the ACT next Saturday.  That said, how is 4 years of work at a crap high school compared to 4 years at a great high school?  Look, I’ve said from the start they should not be the end all be all, but they do have some merit and kids that do well on them do correlate to better performance in college.  The are not meaningless.....and let’s not pretend to erase what schools have said that made it optional and what they originally said was the reason.  You don’t get to simply pretend their motives changed and sweep it under the rug.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

And Lenny thinks you and I are the same people with 100% certainty.  Lol

I agree 4 years is way more important than one day.  Ironically my daughter is taking the SAT at this very moment and the ACT next Saturday.  That said, how is 4 years of work at a crap high school compared to 4 years at a great high school?  Look, I’ve said from the start they should not be the end all be all, but they do have some merit and kids that do well on them do correlate to better performance in college.  The are not meaningless.....and let’s not pretend to erase what schools have said that made it optional and what they originally said was the reason.  You don’t get to simply pretend their motives changed and sweep it under the rug.

I’m not disputing anything. Schools believe the tests are biased against people from disadvantaged backgrounds and therefore are harmful when it comes to diversity. (Which is why the testing boards are adding the adversity score in response.)

And schools know what are the good and bad high schools. They can judge that better than a test can.

[StillAWarrior]

And schools know what are the good and bad high schools. They can judge that better than a test can.

Having gone through the college admission process three times now, I've been amazed how true this statement is.  My kids didn't go to the same high school as most of their grade/middle school peers.  The overwhelming majority of them went to the nearest high school; my kids (and a small handful of others) went to a school farther away.  Both are private, Catholic high schools.  The difference between the college admissions from the two high schools is very stark...even for kids with "comparable" GPAs. 

Same with standardized test scores, for what it's worth, but I'm staying out of that debate.

[Cheeks]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-truth-about-the-sat-and-act-1520521861

Great article from last year from several researchers.   Others I can post as well.

[rocket surgeon]

this is a great story-a milwaukee jesuit high school does the most with the least. all 85 graduating seniors will be the first ones of their respective families to be accepted to a 4 year college.  some were accepted to more than one.  their big upgrade is moving from their old locale, the old st florian grade school to a remodeled pic n sav on 18th and national.  total cost~$25 million.  the "other schools" would spend that on their locker rooms

a few hundred family and friends gathered a GESU for the graduation ceremony


https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/local/milwaukee/2019/05/31/all-85-cristo-rey-grads-accepted-least-two-4-year-colleges/1289169001/

[warriorchick]

this is a great story-a milwaukee jesuit high school does the most with the least. all 85 graduating seniors will be the first ones of their respective families to be accepted to a 4 year college.  some were accepted to more than one.  their big upgrade is moving from their old locale, the old st florian grade school to a remodeled pic n sav on 18th and national.  total cost~$25 million.  the "other schools" would spend that on their locker rooms

a few hundred family and friends gathered a GESU for the graduation ceremony


https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/local/milwaukee/2019/05/31/all-85-cristo-rey-grads-accepted-least-two-4-year-colleges/1289169001/

Cristo Rey is a great program.  We've had interns from the Chicago school at my organization.

[Herman Cain]

Cristo Rey is a great program.  We've had interns from the Chicago school at my organization.

Cristo Rey has a lot of merit in that it gets kids off the streets and in the classroom . However,  I would prefer to see their graduates do something substantial like Health Science or Engineering   and not take the easy path and go  the social justice route. Of course, I guess that is hard thing when the schools are sponsored by the Jesuits.

[Lennys Tap]

And Lenny thinks you and I are the same people with 100% certainty.  Lol

Lie.

I do know with 100% certainty that either you're a big fat liar or you have major trouble with reading comprehension. Could be both are true.

Ask Fluff if he tired of me living inside your head and all the stalking/trolling by you that it causes.

[warriorchick]

Cristo Rey has a lot of merit in that it gets kids off the streets and in the classroom . However,  I would prefer to see their graduates do something substantial like Health Science or Engineering   and not take the easy path and go  the social justice route. Of course, I guess that is hard thing when the schools are sponsored by the Jesuits.

Please tell me this was supposed to be in teal.

[Lennys Tap]

Please tell me this was supposed to be in teal.

+1000

[Cheeks]

Lie.

I do know with 100% certainty that either you're a big fat liar or you have major trouble with reading comprehension. Could be both are true.

Ask Fluff if he tired of me living inside your head and all the stalking/trolling by you that it causes.

Lie?  No.  You going to move the goalposts again, Lenny....like you did on your Least Qualified MU student to be admitted in the last 20 years nonsense?


Here's what you said.  Maybe you have a trouble writing coherent sentences.

Let's follow along, shall we?


1)  https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=58742.msg1133266#msg1133266

"Man, you are totally obsessed by this lunacy. Another alter ego?"   You talking to Fluffy when he called you out about your comments to me.  Yes, you did put a "?" at the end to CYA....ahh, but that will be exposed in a bit.  Of course you were called out by a handful of posters and you disappeared.


2) https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=58746.msg1133695#msg1133695

Then I question you again on your accusation.  You again make the insinuation.  "Read PRN's post. He, I and most others here have you figured out. You're a dishonest debater, always have been. You'll find a supporter here and there - even the most outrageous do. How many of them are merely alter egos I don't know and don't care."   You don't care, yet you sure seem to.

3) https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=58746.msg1133617#msg1133617

And the nail in the coffin. You said,   "Was 99.9% sure I was right. Thanks for making it 100%" in your post to Fluffy that he and I are the same people.


Sorry, no lie by me Lenny.  You just can't admit you got your tit caught in the ringer....again.  For the same reason why so many called you out on the pressure bullshyte on Hauser, and why you had to move the goalposts on your Dwade comments about his admission.   

Now I could come back and say some clever things like you have the last two weeks like....You're a liar or "off your meds again"?  But I won't, I'll leave that to you.  I think the above references prove you were in error in your accusations.

Have a wonderful Sunday.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Cristo Rey has a lot of merit in that it gets kids off the streets and in the classroom . However,  I would prefer to see their graduates do something substantial like Health Science or Engineering   and not take the easy path and go  the social justice route. Of course, I guess that is hard thing when the schools are sponsored by the Jesuits.

Social justice is the easy route? Lol

[Coleman]

The GMAT, GRE, and LSAT are largely useless. The GRE most useless amongst them.

As someone who has taken 2 of these tests (and done quite well), I agree.

[Coleman]

Cristo Rey has a lot of merit in that it gets kids off the streets and in the classroom . However,  I would prefer to see their graduates do something substantial like Health Science or Engineering   and not take the easy path and go  the social justice route. Of course, I guess that is hard thing when the schools are sponsored by the Jesuits.

I don't even know what this means.

[mu03eng]

Those with better test scores, especially in STEM fields, perform better in school.

This is false and this is exactly why the College of Engineering has stood up an underserved student STEM program to get them ready for college-level classes in CoE. CoE found that a lot of under served kids are able to pass the standardized tests but they are vastly under-prepared for the STEM courses when they get to MU because they simply haven't been exposed to it.

Testing is a useful minor metric for admission....the key being minor.

[Cheeks]

As someone who has taken 2 of these tests (and done quite well), I agree.

I took two of them as well, and my test scores helped get me in.  As a freshman at MU I bombed and had to dig out like crazy to get a decent GPA overall.  The test scores did wonders for me per my graduate school director.

[Cheeks]

This is false and this is exactly why the College of Engineering has stood up an underserved student STEM program to get them ready for college-level classes in CoE. CoE found that a lot of under served kids are able to pass the standardized tests but they are vastly under-prepared for the STEM courses when they get to MU because they simply haven't been exposed to it.

Testing is a useful minor metric for admission....the key being minor.

Not false.  In the research of the two academics from the article I posted earlier this week....you have to go to the actual research...it is searchable.

[Lennys Tap]

3) https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=58746.msg1133617#msg1133617

And the nail in the coffin. You said,   "Was 99.9% sure I was right. Thanks for making it 100%" in your post to Fluffy that he and I are the same people.


Sorry, no lie by me Lenny.  You just can't admit you got your tit caught in the ringer....again. 

OMG, Cheeks - you've outdone yourself. The "proof" that I said it was 100% that you and Fluffy are the same person - your "nail in the coffin", isn't anything of the sort. It's my response to Fluffy about Sam being pressured - it has NOTHING to do with you two being the same person. Please read what he wrote and my response again. It's obvious.