MLB 2016

[MerrittsMustache]

Who cares if he struggled in June?  In the NL he is only behind Ozuna, Harper, and Polanco in WAR.  He is deserving overall.

Looking closer, he's actually struggled since mid-May.

April 4-May 11 (31 G): .345/.471/.573, 0 errors in 64 chances
May 11-June 18 (33 G): .242/.329/.406, 3 errors in 56 chances

Also, he's tied with Ozuna for 5th in terms of WAR and trails Marte, Yelich, Braun and Carlos Gonzalez (Marte, Yelich and Braun didn't make the AS team). A hot 5 weeks doesn't make one an All-Star.


Look, I'm a Cub fan. I was thrilled when they brought back Fowler, I think he's been excellent this season and he's one of my favorite players on the team. That said, I can admit that there are several other outfielders who were more deserving of an All-Star spot.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Looking closer, he's actually struggled since mid-May.

April 4-May 11 (31 G): .345/.471/.573, 0 errors in 64 chances
May 11-June 18 (33 G): .242/.329/.406, 3 errors in 56 chances

Also, he's tied with Ozuna for 5th in terms of WAR and trails Marte, Yelich, Braun and Carlos Gonzalez (Marte, Yelich and Braun didn't make the AS team). A hot 5 weeks doesn't make one an All-Star.


Look, I'm a Cub fan. I was thrilled when they brought back Fowler, I think he's been excellent this season and he's one of my favorite players on the team. That said, I can admit that there are several other outfielders who were more deserving of an All-Star spot.

We're looking at different resources for WAR then as each of those players you mentioned are below Fowler.

You can certainly cherry pick numbers but his first 31 games count as much as his next 33. I'm also not saying any of those other players aren't deserving.

[Tugg Speedman]

I'll at least think about agreeing with this when Theo wins his fourth World Series with the Cubs and goes on to be recognized as the best executive in baseball history.

He already is one of the best executives in history now.

When he wins with the Cubs, baseball will rename the executive of the year award to the Theo Epstein award.

[buckchuckler]

Who cares if he struggled in June?  In the NL he is only behind Ozuna, Harper, and Polanco in WAR.  He is deserving overall.

Really?  I know WAR is slippery and varies a bit, but according to ESPN he is 68th in MLB in WAR, and there are certainly more than those 3 ahead of him in terms of NL OFers, among them Christian Yelich, Ryan Braun, and Cargo. 

By that logic, though, Adam Eaton, 18th overall, was quite the snub.  Behind only Trout, Betts, Bradley and Springer among OFers. 

[buckchuckler]

He already is one of the best executives in history now.

Based on what?  2 WS?  One of which was with a team he inherited?  Where would you put Brian Sabean?  His resume is better than Theo's right now. 

[Pakuni]

He already is one of the best executives in history now.

When he wins with the Cubs, baseball will rename the executive of the year award to the Theo Epstein award.

Theo has somehow overcome the incredible hardships that come with running a big-market team given unlimited payroll and resources by their billionaire owners.

[GGGG]

I'm not going to crown his ass, but Theo won in Boston, and is winning in Chicago, not because he spent unlimited resources.  That's what the Dodgers and Yankees have been doing with little success.

He was able to draft and develop his own guys, and then supplement their weaknesses with free agents.  Granted that is much easier to do in places like Boston and Chicago than it is in places like Milwaukee.  But it's not by any stretch of the word easy.

[MerrittsMustache]

I'm not going to crown his ass, but Theo won in Boston, and is winning in Chicago, not because he spent unlimited resources.  That's what the Dodgers and Yankees have been doing with little success.

He was able to draft and develop his own guys, and then supplement their weaknesses with free agents.  Granted that is much easier to do in places like Boston and Chicago than it is in places like Milwaukee.  But it's not by any stretch of the word easy.

He also broke the curse in Boston with a team built around a bunch of PED users (Manny, Damon, Ortiz, Arroyo, etc). They obviously weren't the only team in that era built that way but it's still part of his legacy.

[Pakuni]

I'm not going to crown his ass, but Theo won in Boston, and is winning in Chicago, not because he spent unlimited resources.  That's what the Dodgers and Yankees have been doing with little success.

And by "little" success, you mean:
Dodgers ... playoffs 6 of last 10 seasons
Yankees ... playoffs 7 of last 10 seasons
Theo ...  playoffs 4 of 10  last 10 seasons.

Look, I'm not arguing that Theo isn't a good GM. But let's not get carried away here. He's had tremendous resources available to him. His Red Sox teams were always top 5 in terms of payroll, and usually second behind the Yankees.

He was able to draft and develop his own guys, and then supplement their weaknesses with free agents.

Very few of his key players in Boston were guys who were drafted and developed under him. Not Manny. Not Pedro. Not Ortiz. Not Schilling. Not Damon. Not Bellhorn. Not Lowell. Not Varitek. Not Foulke. Not Arroyo. Not Beckett. And so on.

He has done a terrific job of building up the Cubs system, but it helps to  a) to be able to pick in the top 10 nearly every year and b) have an ownership that is willing to allow you to tank on the major league level while investing heavily in the international market and developmental system. Not many owners have the patience to do that, or the luxury of knowing their fans will watch on TV and fill up the ballpark regardless of the quality of on-field product.

Again, none of this is to say he's not done very well. But he's been given substantial advantages very few of his peers have. It's silly not to recognize that.

But it's not by any stretch of the word easy.

Who used that word?

[brandx]

I'm not going to crown his ass, but Theo won in Boston, and is winning in Chicago, not because he spent unlimited resources.  That's what the Dodgers and Yankees have been doing with little success.

He was able to draft and develop his own guys, and then supplement their weaknesses with free agents.  Granted that is much easier to do in places like Boston and Chicago than it is in places like Milwaukee.  But it's not by any stretch of the word easy.

I agree, generally. He has done way, way more than just buy players.

But there is a big difference between Boston/Chicago resources when you do need to spend - whether it is a bad move like Heyward or a good one for Lester. In Chicago, you can make a mistake and continue forward. In other places, a big $$$ mistake will sink you. The Pittsburghs and KCs of the world are unable to supplement their teams like the big boys do.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Really?  I know WAR is slippery and varies a bit, but according to ESPN he is 68th in MLB in WAR, and there are certainly more than those 3 ahead of him in terms of NL OFers, among them Christian Yelich, Ryan Braun, and Cargo. 

By that logic, though, Adam Eaton, 18th overall, was quite the snub.  Behind only Trout, Betts, Bradley and Springer among OFers.

I was using Fangraphs version.

[🏀]

ESPN has a terrible WAR calculation, it shouldn't even be called WAR, as shorty as QBR.

[Tugg Speedman]

So now Boston is a big market team?  I suppose St. Louis is a big market team too?

The fact is Boston is the 12th largest market with San Diego and Detriot larger.  Anyone want to explain the advantage they have over Boston?

Regarding Milwaukee, Atlanta, St. Louis, Tampa and about 10 other markets are smaller. 

Oh, and the White Soxs are a big-time major market team with a huge payroll, right? They are in the third largest market in the country.  That means if they sign a $100 million player that craps out, no worries, their get another one, or maybe two.  Right?

https://ondeckcircle.wordpress.com/tag/population-of-major-league-cities/

Big/small market is nothing but a whine to explain poor management and lousy owners.

Also, MLB does categorize teams but big and small market according to population and teams like St.Louis get extra draft picks because they are consider small market.  Ditto Milwaukee.  St. Louis knows what it is doing, the Brewers do not.

Given this one could argue it is easier to win in many small markets as a lot of team are now discovering (See KC) if you develop a farm system.  The problem is a lot of teams are saddled with incompetent owners and bad management.  That was the Cubs case until 2009.

Milwuakee's problem is its ownership and management, not the size of the market.

[buckchuckler]

I dont think i have ever seen "white soxs" before.

[MUsoxfan]

Boston hasn't been out of the Top 5 in team payroll this century. They're the definition of a big market team

[brandx]

So now Boston is a big market team?  I suppose St. Louis is a big market team too?

The fact is Boston is the 12th largest market with San Diego and Detriot larger.  Anyone want to explain the advantage they have over Boston?

Regarding Milwaukee, Atlanta, St. Louis, Tampa and about 10 other markets are smaller. 

Oh, and the White Soxs are a big-time major market team with a huge payroll, right? They are in the third largest market in the country.  That means if they sign a $100 million player that craps out, no worries, their get another one, or maybe two.  Right?

https://ondeckcircle.wordpress.com/tag/population-of-major-league-cities/

Big/small market is nothing but a whine to explain poor management and lousy owners.

Also, MLB does categorize teams but big and small market according to population and teams like St.Louis get extra draft picks because they are consider small market.  Ditto Milwaukee.  St. Louis knows what it is doing, the Brewers do not.

Given this one could argue it is easier to win in many small markets as a lot of team are now discovering (See KC) if you develop a farm system.  The problem is a lot of teams are saddled with incompetent owners and bad management.  That was the Cubs case until 2009.

Milwuakee's problem is its ownership and management, not the size of the market.

Clueless and ridiculous.

You actually believe Minnesota has the advantage over NY and LA. You having finally completed the transition into Chicas. You post simply to be contrary and to argue.

Like MU82, I am done. I have had enough.

[Tugg Speedman]

Clueless and ridiculous.

You actually believe Minnesota has the advantage over NY and LA. You having finally completed the transition into Chicas. You post simply to be contrary and to argue.

Like MU82, I am done. I have had enough.

What's the difference between Minnesota,  Milwaukee and St. Louis?

The answer is competent ownership/management in St. Louis.

[🏀]

What's the difference between Minnesota,  Milwaukee and St. Louis?

The answer is competent ownership/management in St. Louis.

The Brewers are far from incompetent, they went for it during their window, now they have to pay that price.

[brewcity77]

So now Boston is a big market team?  I suppose St. Louis is a big market team too?

The fact is Boston is the 12th largest market with San Diego and Detriot larger.  Anyone want to explain the advantage they have over Boston?

I don't think you know what you are talking about here. Rather, I'm sure you don't. Media market isn't determined by urban population, it's determined by media market size. According to the Nielsen survey from September 2015, Boston is the 7th largest market. St. Louis is 21st. Detroit is not larger as it ranks 13th and San Diego is not larger as it ranks 28th.

You can debate what qualifies as "big market", but 7th is certainly bigger than any of the others you list, trailing only NYC, LA, Chicago, Philly, DFW, and San Fran/Oakland.

http://www.tvjobs.com/cgi-bin/markets/market2.cgi

[WI inferiority Complexes]

So now Boston is a big market team?

One of the biggest.  Has been forever.

[Tugg Speedman]

I don't think you know what you are talking about here. Rather, I'm sure you don't. Media market isn't determined by urban population, it's determined by media market size. According to the Nielsen survey from September 2015, Boston is the 7th largest market. St. Louis is 21st. Detroit is not larger as it ranks 13th and San Diego is not larger as it ranks 28th.

You can debate what qualifies as "big market", but 7th is certainly bigger than any of the others you list, trailing only NYC, LA, Chicago, Philly, DFW, and San Fran/Oakland.

http://www.tvjobs.com/cgi-bin/markets/market2.cgi

This is not how baseball defines it.  It defines it according to population.  That is why teams like St. Louis and Milwaukee get supplemental draft picks, to compensate them for being a small market teams. 

For instance the Cardinals drafted Y. Molina with a first round supplemental pick, given to them because they are small market.

It is argued the best way to build a farm system is brute force, lots of picks and prospects hoping some breakthrough.  Baseball has given small market team an advantage that they get more draft picks than large market teams.

St. Louis understands this and has built through the draft and has won more world series than any other national league team.  Milwaukee does get it and they sit home every October.

This is what makes what Theo did with the Cubs farm system even more remarkable.  He does not get extra first round picks like the cardinals.

The real loser is the White Soxs.  They are really a small market team that happen to be in Chicago so they are not given extra draft picks.

And building through the draft is really cheap.  Baseball has a 7 years salary structure, that is why the Cubs did not call up Kris Bryant until after April 15 last year.  So for the cost of one Ryan Braun 50 game suspension you can build a winner.  Let the Yankees buy all the 32 year old for $150 million.  Keep drafting and pay them relatively nothing for seven years.

[buckchuckler]

This is not how baseball defines it.  It defines it according to population.  That is why teams like St. Louis and Milwaukee get supplemental draft picks, to compensate them for being a small market teams. 

For instance the Cardinals drafted Y. Molina with a first round supplemental pick, given to them because they are small market.

It is argued the best way to build a farm system is brute force, lots of picks and prospects hoping some breakthrough.  Baseball has given small market team an advantage that they get more draft picks than large market teams.

St. Louis understands this and has built through the draft and has won more world series than any other national league team.  Milwaukee does get it and they sit home every October.

This is what makes what Theo did with the Cubs farm system even more remarkable.  He does not get extra first round picks like the cardinals.

The real loser is the White Soxs.  They are really a small market team that happen to be in Chicago so they are not given extra draft picks.

And building through the draft is really cheap.  Baseball has a 7 years salary structure, that is why the Cubs did not call up Kris Bryant until after April 15 last year.  So for the cost of one Ryan Braun 50 game suspension you can build a winner.  Let the Yankees buy all the 32 year old for $150 million.  Keep drafting and pay them relatively nothing for seven years.

I wish the politics board still existed to give you the outlet you need.

[brewcity77]

Wow...just looked at that and it's completely nonsensical. Boston dominates the northeast and is 12th? Doesn't at all take into account a team's actual reach.

[brandx]

The Brewers are far from incompetent, they went for it during their window, now they have to pay that price.

Exactly. Small markets clubs will have short windows to compete and then guys get enough years to become FAs and move to the big markets where the money is. Then they have to re-tool all over again.

[Tugg Speedman]

I wish the politics board still existed to give you the outlet you need.

So your locked into your inaccurate view of how baseball is structured and unwilling to change.

Got it.

Baseball Change the rules of the last several years to make small market in large market teams on parity with each other.   The size of the TV market is really not that important in determining the success of the team. That's why we watch Pittsburgh and Kansas City in the playoffs every year.