MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: jesmu84 on August 06, 2015, 11:28:08 AM
-
Damn...
Check out @AroundTheNFL's Tweet: https://twitter.com/AroundTheNFL/status/629324616301871104?s=09
-
Is it a stress fracture? How did he get it?
-
The Joel Embiid of the NFL?
-
This is clearly Cutler's fault
-
As a Bears fan I'm rooting for 2-14 ahead of the more probable 6-10. Gonna need a whole lot more top 10 picks before anything changes.
-
Bears will win at least 6.
Vikings won't make the Playoffs.
Packers will lose to the Seahawks. Twice. Again.
-
The Lions being the Lions......
-
Bears will win at least 6.
Vikings won't make the Playoffs.
Packers will lose to the Seahawks. Twice. Again.
Packers go 13-3 and win the Super Bowl. Last time I said that was 1996.
-
Packers go 13-3 and win the Super Bowl. Last time I said that was 1996.
The last time I put money on the Pack to win the Super Bowl months before training camp they won the Super Bowl. I did that again this year so it's a good start.
I just think that even though we absolutely should've won the Super Bowl last year, I don't see Pete Carroll staying away from the spread option until 6 minutes left in the game ever again against the Packers. And I don't see the Packers ever stopping it with this coaching staff.
-
The NFL's most depressing teams 1-32.
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/08/ranking-the-nfls-most-depressing-franchises-1-32
-
As if we didn't already know the Bears defense was pathetic...
http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago-bears/post/_/id/4699370/camp-surprise-jay-cutler-has-yet-to-throw-an-interception-in-team-drills
-
Bears will win at least 6.
Vikings won't make the Playoffs.
Packers will lose to the Seahawks. Twice. Again.
Vikes make playoffs. Book it.
-
As if we didn't already know the Bears defense was pathetic...
http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago-bears/post/_/id/4699370/camp-surprise-jay-cutler-has-yet-to-throw-an-interception-in-team-drills
I'm not saying your wrong about the Bears defense but even if Cutler put up Rodgers type numbers this year you would still find some way to criticize him.
-
I'm not saying your wrong about the Bears defense but even if Cutler put up Rodgers type numbers this year you would still find some way to criticize him.
Nope, don't think I would. But I feel *fairly* confident in saying we'll never find out, so maybe you're right. Or maybe not.
Vikes make playoffs. Book it.
You need either a historically good defense or a top half quarterback to make it to the Playoffs when you aren't playing in a division like last year's NFC South. I don't see either of those things in the Vikings.
-
You need either a historically good defense or a top half quarterback to make it to the Playoffs when you aren't playing in a division like last year's NFC South. I don't see either of those things in the Vikings.
Defense won't be historic but it's a good D. And Teddy is more than likely going to be a top 15 QB with AP. He completes a high % of passes and now has a running game, deep threat, and healthy play makers around him.
This team went 7-9 last year with no AP losing about 5 games that coulda went the other way(2 on bad calls), Teddy learning on the fly and key injuries.
Not calling them a sb contender but top 6 in NFC I feel safe betting on. We will see though!!!
-
Defense won't be historic but it's a good D. And Teddy is more than likely going to be a top 15 QB with AP. He completes a high % of passes and now has a running game, deep threat, and healthy play makers around him.
This team went 7-9 last year with no AP losing about 5 games that coulda went the other way(2 on bad calls), Teddy learning on the fly and key injuries.
Not calling them a sb contender but top 6 in NFC I feel safe betting on. We will see though!!!
I hope you're right, the Vikes still have an asswhuppin' coming from the "mooning" incident...although I thought it was funny and appropo considering the horsesh!t game the Pack played that day.
-
I hope you're right, the Vikes still have an asswhuppin' coming from the "mooning" incident...although I thought it was funny and appropo considering the horsesh!t game the Pack played that day.
The Randy Moss mooning incident???
-
Yeah, that game was an embarrassment and the moon was the cherry on top, 10 years later, I still want some restitution as it were.
-
Yeah, that game was an embarrassment and the moon was the cherry on top, 10 years later, I still want some restitution as it were.
Joe Buck is that you?
That celebration was nothing other than classic. I would find it hilarious if any player did it.
Idk why 10 years it still would piss you off lol. Especially since that win while it was great ultimately led to nothing for the vikes(as usual SMH).
-
To be clear, I did think the moon was funny, what wasn't funny is that the Pack didn't even show up that day. Skol!
-
To be clear, I did think the moon was funny, what wasn't funny is that the Pack didn't even show up that day. Skol!
Nope. A couple of those games in the post season (SF, NYG, that game) and a couple of heartbreakers (Seattle, Philli, the other NYG) and there have been some tough pills to swallow. But I guess that'll happen when you're consistently in position to compete for a Super Bowl. There will be a few awesome endings and a lot of tough endings.
-
To be clear, I did think the moon was funny, what wasn't funny is that the Pack didn't even show up that day. Skol!
O ha! Yeah I gotcha!
I think it was more than made up for a couple years ago when you got to face the vikes led by Joe Webb in the playoffs lol
-
O ha! Yeah I gotcha!
I think it was more than made up for a couple years ago when you got to face the vikes led by Joe Webb in the playoffs lol
I would've thought that Webb/Ponder embarrassment would've made up for it too.
Funny though, as a Vikes fan I've always referred to it as the "straight cash, homey" game.
-
I don't think the Packers really have to do anything to "make up for" any game against the Vikings. The trophy cases of each tranchise (or lack thereof of one of the 2 franchises) says it all.
-
Jordy done for the year.
This is why you cannot choke away championships.
-
Jordy done for the year.
This is why you cannot choke away championships.
Really glad I grabbed Adams late in my fantasy draft last night
-
Really glad I grabbed Adams late in my fantasy draft last night
Damn, time for Adams to shine and hopefully Montgomery can handle being #3. Glad the Pack has taken receivers early the last couple of years.
-
That absolutely sucks about Jordy Nelson. Bums me out...talented, works hard, might be smartest WR in NFL, legit top 10 wideout.
To me, he was the glue guy in that offense, really hate seeing that. Hope he has a healthy recovery.
-
That absolutely sucks about Jordy Nelson. Bums me out...talented, works hard, might be smartest WR in NFL, legit top 10 wideout.
+1
-
Is this Guillon 3 game suspension for his off season incident where marijuana and a gun were found in his car or is it a separate incident? Hopefully for him and the Packers it's the same incident, but it sounds like a separate incident, which would not be good.
-
Its the whole thing. This is the only incident.
-
Its the whole thing. This is the only incident.
Got it, thanks.
-
And Gooddell continues to make a fool of himself, but as long as the NFL continues to make an absurd amount of money he'll continue to collect his $44M/year.
-
The owners have to start asking themselves if it is really Goodell that is causing them to make the absurd amount of money, or is it the product itself. Because his actions have been completely incompetent over the past year and a half.
-
The owners have to start asking themselves if it is really Goodell that is causing them to make the absurd amount of money, or is it the product itself. Because his actions have been completely incompetent over the past year and a half.
Agreed. On the surface I would say that the NFL is going to sell itself. But I really don't know what goes on behind the scenes, so I'm not sure how much Gooddell is to thank for it.
-
This was always out of proportion. Under-inflated footballs = domestic violence? Ye, gods. If they had thrown a $50k fine at this, that would have been proportional and it would have been over. Now, the commissioner has egg all over his face again for another mishandled situation.
-
The owners have to start asking themselves if it is really Goodell that is causing them to make the absurd amount of money, or is it the product itself. Because his actions have been completely incompetent over the past year and a half.
The NFL would make big $$$$ if you or I were commish. Right now, it is a money tree.
-
This was always out of proportion. Under-inflated footballs = domestic violence? Ye, gods. If they had thrown a $50k fine at this, that would have been proportional and it would have been over. Now, the commissioner has egg all over his face again for another mishandled situation.
I agree with you but I can see how someone can really be against tampering with the game. Cork the bat... you are a cheater for life. Tighten a rim on a bball court cause your team can't shoot, you would have to forfeit those games. Lance's reputation went down cause he took drugs and blood transfusions. I would argue "you still have to hit the ball," "both teams still had to play with the same rims," and "everyone cheats and he just was that good." It's a fine line between finding an edge and flat-out cheating.
-
Is it cheating when a baseball team with a staff of sinkerball pitchers lets the infield grass get a little longer and waters it for an extra 10 minutes? As a Tiger fan, I will forever be convinced the Twins messed with the HVAC during the 87 playoffs. So? Not all of the footballs were underinflated and those that were were close enough that it could have been an honest mistake or the conditions. I believe, with every fiber of my being, that Brady had let the guys know he likes his footballs a little softer. Proving he told them to break the rules....meh.
-
This was always out of proportion. Under-inflated footballs = domestic violence? Ye, gods.
Attempting to equate on field and off-field violations is apples to oranges. You could make a strong argument that anything that taints the integrity of the game is worse for the NFL than crimes committed by players off the field. If fans think the sport is not on the level that is a bigger problem for the league than anything else. So I can see where on field cheating could be treated more harshly than criminal behavior off the field, particularly when you consider that the legal system should be punishing violators for off field behavior.
That being said, a quarter of the season because the footballs in a 49-7 (or whatever the score was) game were under-inflated? That's way over the top. Fine them, put in more strict rules for how footballs will be handled and monitored moving forward with specific penalties for violations and be done with it. This is not rocket science.
-
James Jones coming back to the green and gold. Him and Jennings helped to teach Cobb and Nelson a nice lesson. Chase an extra $1-2M/year for 4 years and go job hopping shortly after it "settle" for $9-10M and continue to look great courtesy of the best player in the NFL and then get another 4 years of big time contract.
-
The owners have to start asking themselves if it is really Goodell that is causing them to make the absurd amount of money, or is it the product itself. Because his actions have been completely incompetent over the past year and a half.
Have they?
-
LOl.
SKOL VIKINGS, GO TWINS!
-
LOl.
SKOL VIKINGS, GO TWINS!
Until their quarterback contributes more touchdowns to his team than he does turnovers, I'm not too worried about the Vikings. The value of a quarterback in the NFL gets completely overlooked. Sure, the Vikings seem like a great sleeper pick just like the Chiefs in the AFC. And sure, Bridgewater is a huge upgrade over anyone since Brett Favre donned the purple and yellow (hah), and sure Alex Smith has turned his career around, but they are nowhere near good enough to lead a team deep in the Playoffs. Playoff appearance? Sure. Super Bowl? Nah.
I will say this, the Bears and Lions could learn a thing or two from the Vikings on how to build their organization. Just go after washed up Packers who Ted has an interest in overpaying for and hope they've got enough in the tank to carry you to a 2nd place finish in the Division and a Playoff appearance. Smart strategy.
I'm fine with the Twinkies. Was too young to have witnessed the Brewers vs. Twins "rivalry" and they've been a pretty well run organization for some time now. Plus they gave the Brewers Carlos Gomez for JJ Hardy. Nice.
-
The value of a quarterback in the NFL gets completely overlooked.
Duh hell are you talkin about?!?!?!
-
If I were a Viking fan, I would be cautiously excited about Bridgewater. With all the quarterback crap out there, I think he shows the potential to take that next step. We will have to see what this year brings.
-
If I were a Viking fan, I would be cautiously excited about Bridgewater. With all the quarterback crap out there, I think he shows the potential to take that next step. We will have to see what this year brings.
I think he could be fine, but I think he's a couple years away from being considered a good NFL QB. Right now I think he's just a guy who's capable of NOT losing games for his team, which is a good starting point for a young quarterback.
-
The owners mostly love Roger. What they are going to do is take the pressure off of him around discipline. In essence, restructure the role so he doesn't have to deal with it as much. For the most part, they don't want Roger gone, but they do want to reorganize the discipline away from that position.
At least that is what we are being told.
-
The owners mostly love Roger. What they are going to do is take the pressure off of him around discipline. In essence, restructure the role so he doesn't have to deal with it as much. For the most part, they don't want Roger gone, but they do want to reorganize the discipline away from that position.
At least that is what we are being told.
That's cause he's a commissioner of the owners, not the players. The rich get richer.
-
That's cause he's a commissioner of the owners, not the players. The rich get richer.
He works for the owners, that is correct. The players have become richer during his tenure, too.
-
Duh hell are you talkin about?!?!?!
Exactly.
-
Duh hell are you talkin about?!?!?!
I'm talking about people getting overly excited about football teams that have average quarterbacks. Yes, Alex Smith is great...compared to what he was early in his career. But he is still an average quarterback. Yes, Teddy Bridgewater is great...for a 2nd year quarterback and for a Minnesota Vikings quarterback. But he is still an average quarterback. You can get all excited about the Chiefs and the Vikings and think they might win their division, but it is going to take a huge talent gap at just about every single position on the field for the Vikings to overtake the Packers or the Chiefs to beat out the Broncos (even with Manning's noodle arm, he's a ton better than Smith) or even the Chargers.
-
I'm talking about people getting overly excited about football teams that have average quarterbacks. Yes, Alex Smith is great...compared to what he was early in his career. But he is still an average quarterback. Yes, Teddy Bridgewater is great...for a 2nd year quarterback and for a Minnesota Vikings quarterback. But he is still an average quarterback. You can get all excited about the Chiefs and the Vikings and think they might win their division, but it is going to take a huge talent gap at just about every single position on the field for the Vikings to overtake the Packers or the Chiefs to beat out the Broncos (even with Manning's noodle arm, he's a ton better than Smith) or even the Chargers.
I disagree, you have a great defense and special teams with a good running game you can give teams hell. Just look at the 06 or 85 bears. Both had medichore quarterbacks at best.
-
The owners mostly love Roger. What they are going to do is take the pressure off of him around discipline. In essence, restructure the role so he doesn't have to deal with it as much. For the most part, they don't want Roger gone, but they do want to reorganize the discipline away from that position.
At least that is what we are being told.
Roger isn't doing anything without the owners approval. Roger takes all the heat for things the owners likely want done. The owners wanted off field issues to be lightly punished and Roger was the person trying to carry that out with Ray Rice but got nailed in a changing environment/PR disaster. Roger is a trained and well compensated monkey executing owner directives.
With Roger as the front man nobody looks at the owners and their actions too closely. Roger is doing exactly what the owners want him to be doing otherwise he'd be gone.
-
I disagree, you have a great defense and special teams with a good running game you can give teams hell. Just look at the 06 or 85 bears. Both had medichore quarterbacks at best.
You are right that there are exceptions, which is why I said there would need to be huge talent gaps at just about every other position. I do think the Vikings defense will be better than the Packer's, but I don't think the Vikings defense will be close to historically good like the '06 Bears were. I do think the Vikings have the better running back, but not to some astronomical point. Same deal with the Chiefs when compared to the Broncos.
If you have an average or below average quarterback, you need to be dang near historically good on the defensive side of the ball to compete for a Championship. While I think the Vikings and Chiefs will have good defenses, they aren't close to good enough to carry an average quarterback deep in the Playoffs.
This as compared to any other position on the field. Just look at the Packers over the past decade. Really bad defense? All can be made up for by having a really good quarterback. No running game? No worries, as long as you have a really good quarterback. You can argue that the Packers have had so much success because of their wide receivers, but look what those receivers do when the leave the Packers (Jennings, Jones).
If you don't have a good to great quarterback, you better have the best defense in the league by a wide margin and a quarterback who knows his job is to hand the ball off to a great running back and control the football if you want to win a Super Bowl. Whereas if you have average to below average everything other than O Line and QB, you can still win a SB.
-
Roger isn't doing anything without the owners approval. Roger takes all the heat for things the owners likely want done. The owners wanted off field issues to be lightly punished and Roger was the person trying to carry that out with Ray Rice but got nailed in a changing environment/PR disaster. Roger is a trained and well compensated monkey executing owner directives.
With Roger as the front man nobody looks at the owners and their actions too closely. Roger is doing exactly what the owners want him to be doing otherwise he'd be gone.
Generally speaking, you are right.
But the owners can't be happy that he keeps getting overturned every time one of these things goes to court.
And probably, the biggest thing is that he has lost Kraft, who was the #1 supporter of Goddell. Kraft was the guy who would talk down owners whenever they got upset with one of Goodell's rulings regarding their teams. Kraft would always tell them it was for the good of the league. That is why he accepted the punishment of his team by Goodell. He had to do what he always advised other owners to do.
I don't think will be in Goddell's corner much anymore.
-
Generally speaking, you are right.
But the owners can't be happy that he keeps getting overturned every time one of these things goes to court.
And probably, the biggest thing is that he has lost Kraft, who was the #1 supporter of Goddell. Kraft was the guy who would talk down owners whenever they got upset with one of Goodell's rulings regarding their teams. Kraft would always tell them it was for the good of the league. That is why he accepted the punishment of his team by Goodell. He had to do what he always advised other owners to do.
I don't think will be in Goddell's corner much anymore.
You are assuming the owners aren't using this as a red herring to distract from the concussion issue that is on-going. Billionaires don't become and stay billionaires by not playing chess when everyone else is playing checkers.
-
The concussion issue really wasn't an issue. It's been known about for years and hasn't affected viewership.
-
Losing Kraft isn't that big right now. He is respected, but also many owners have been out to clean his hide for many years. It's part of the reason deflategate even happened....because it was Kraft's team involved.
-
Losing Kraft isn't that big right now. He is respected, but also many owners have been out to clean his hide for many years. It's part of the reason deflategate even happened....because it was Kraft's team involved.
Good point.
-
Losing Kraft isn't that big right now. He is respected, but also many owners have been out to clean his hide for many years. It's part of the reason deflategate even happened....because it was Kraft's team involved.
I thought Kraft led the negotiations on the newest TV deal?
-
Roger isn't doing anything without the owners approval. Roger takes all the heat for things the owners likely want done. The owners wanted off field issues to be lightly punished and Roger was the person trying to carry that out with Ray Rice but got nailed in a changing environment/PR disaster. Roger is a trained and well compensated monkey executing owner directives.
With Roger as the front man nobody looks at the owners and their actions too closely. Roger is doing exactly what the owners want him to be doing otherwise he'd be gone.
Agree
-
I thought Kraft led the negotiations on the newest TV deal?
Kraft heads that committee, all the TV deals are done now, with DIRECTV and ESPN being the last two. They're done for a considerable amount of time.
-
Despite John Fox doing absolutely everything he can with his game plan (seriously, it was as good of a game plan as you'll find against the Pack) he still couldn't keep me from my bi-yearly posts...
Same old Jay.
Bears down.
Oh yeah, and James Jones is BACK.
-
Despite John Fox doing absolutely everything he can with his game plan (seriously, it was as good of a game plan as you'll find against the Pack) he still couldn't keep me from my bi-yearly posts...
Same old Jay.
Bears down.
Oh yeah, and James Jones is BACK.
As a Packers fan, I hope the Bears keep Cutler for a long time. They had their chances...but you just KNEW Jay would throw a pick when they needed a big play.
-
As a Packers fan, I hope the Bears keep Cutler for a long time. They had their chances...but you just KNEW Jay would throw a pick when they needed a big play.
Good chance he ends up in the Packers HOF.
-
Despite John Fox doing absolutely everything he can with his game plan (seriously, it was as good of a game plan as you'll find against the Pack) he still couldn't keep me from my bi-yearly posts...
Same old Jay.
Bears down.
Oh yeah, and James Jones is BACK.
You're a piece of work. Jay was way more patient, you can't deny that and he made 2 bad decisions of the day. Same bears defense though that's forsure. Worst decision of the game was passing it 3 times from 2nd and goal at the 3.
Same old Wade
-
I think the Bears played about as good as they could against the Packers without creating a turnover. They just aren't good enough to beat them without the Packers making mistakes. However they have a much better coaching staff than the clown car that was running the place last year.
-
You're a piece of work. Jay was way more patient, you can't deny that and he made 2 bad decisions of the day. Same bears defense though that's forsure. Worst decision of the game was passing it 3 times from 2nd and goal at the 3.
Same old Wade
Like I said, John Fox did absolutely everything he possibly could have to prevent Jay from turning the ball over. Quick, simple passes, quick reads, pound the ball, run the clock. Fox is a smart, smart guy. He knows what Jay is (a turnover prone, very bad starting quarterback), and he tried his very best to hide that. If you're cool with your quarterback throwing an interception down by 8 with 4 minutes left, so be it. I wouldn't be, but hey, I haven't had to deal with that type of quarterback play my entire life.
Yup, same old Wade. Death, taxes, and a Packers win over a Jay Cutler quarterbacked team.
The proof is in the pudding.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU9Ke3uFP8w
-
Same old Lions.
-
It's such a bad spot when you have a QB like Cutler or Dalton or Flacco or Russell Wilson.
Your only options are to overpay or draft a rookie QB and start over.
(BTW, I don't need to know how Flacco & Wilson won SBs. Just like McMahon, their defense won for them.)
-
Well, to win da next SB, the Pack's gotta clean up their defense, ai na?
-
Well, to win da next SB, the Pack's gotta clean up their defense, ai na?
Hear hear. It is a really, really bad thing when "Sticky" (Slippery?) Shields is your best cornerback.
Only players who looked capable today were Clay (who we know will be injured), Peppers, and kind of Micah Hyde. Burnett will be helpful just for depth purposes and hopefully Guion also helps the run defense, but it is pretty poor right now.
-
It's such a bad spot when you have a QB like Cutler or Dalton or Flacco or Russell Wilson.
Your only options are to overpay or draft a rookie QB and start over.
(BTW, I don't need to know how Flacco & Wilson won SBs. Just like McMahon, their defense won for them.)
Wilson won it because he has a coach who knows his weaknesses and hides them and because Wilson is smart enough to understand this and stick to the gameplan. Control the football, don't turn it over, let your running game and one of the best defenses assembled in football carry you to a championship. The Seahawks last offensive play in the Super Bowl went against absolutely everything they're all about. They outthought themselves and we see what happens.
By the way, the documentary on last year's Patriots, "Do Your Job," was really good. Their coaches are all over everything when it comes to gameplanning and preparation. Belichick is a genius (and cheater).
-
I thought the Bears played fine today, have to measure it against expectations. I don't know anyone who thought the Bears had any shot of actually winning going in to today.
They looked competent overall, their secondary is horrendous, and they didn't make mistakes. I think it was Steve Young (could be wrong) who said "every INT has its own story". To put that pick on Cutler is foolish, any QB in the league would have made that same throw. Bennett was wide open, give all the credit in the world to Matthews. That play by Matthews is the type of play you put on your DPOY resume film. Watch it from different angles, what Matthews did there was awesome, he came from the other side of the tackle box, recognized what was happening, was athletic enough to make the play. Maybe like 3-4 other LB's in this league make that play at best.
The Pack have probably the most talented roster in the league, the Bears are near the bottom. On to week 2.
-
I thought the Bears played fine today, have to measure it against expectations. I don't know anyone who thought the Bears had any shot of actually winning going in to today.
They looked competent overall, their secondary is horrendous, and they didn't make mistakes. I think it was Steve Young (could be wrong) who said "every INT has its own story". To put that pick on Cutler is foolish, any QB in the league would have made that same throw. Bennett was wide open, give all the credit in the world to Matthews. That play by Matthews is the type of play you put on your DPOY resume film. Watch it from different angles, what Matthews did there was awesome, he came from the other side of the tackle box, recognized what was happening, was athletic enough to make the play. Maybe like 3-4 other LB's in this league make that play at best.
The Pack have probably the most talented roster in the league, the Bears are near the bottom. On to week 2.
These are the throws Jay always makes when the game is on the line.
Cutler's QB rating for the game was 67.5 with a 50% completion rate. He was bad before the interception. He "led" them to one TD only after a penalty on their field goal attempt and a TD in garbage time.
Same ole Jay.
-
These are the throws Jay always makes when the game is on the line.
Cutler's QB rating for the game was 67.5 with a 50% completion rate. He was bad before the interception. He "led" them to one TD only after a penalty on their field goal attempt and a TD in garbage time.
Same ole Jay.
@zachkruse2: Cutler never looked inside, threw late down the middle. Broke two of Rodgers' rules for not throwing interceptions.
-
These are the throws Jay always makes when the game is on the line.
Cutler's QB rating for the game was 67.5 with a 50% completion rate. He was bad before the interception. He "led" them to one TD only after a penalty on their field goal attempt and a TD in garbage time.
Same ole Jay.
No doubt. It amazes me that people still try to rationalize the guy's turnovers, when he has such a rich tradition of committing them (this guy has more I tw that aren't his fault than any QB in the history of the league). Matthews definitely made a nice play, but it really wasn't that difficult. He knew exactly where that ball was going. Jay either didn't see him, or thought he couldn't make a play on the ball. It was a bad decision. If you aren't going to put that pick on Cutler, who is it on?
-
Matthews definitely made a nice play, but it really wasn't that difficult. He knew exactly where that ball was going. Jay either didn't see him, or thought he couldn't make a play on the ball. It was a bad decision. If you aren't going to put that pick on Cutler, who is it on?
It wasn't that difficult? That was an insane break and read by Matthews. Some turnovers are just REALLY REALLY good defensive plays, not blame on WR or QB. That was a timed, quick throw. I was very upset about the timing of the TO, but I wasn't like "dammit Jay", more like "I hate how good Matthews is".
Fox's gameplan was fantastic. Cutler was ok, but very good on 3rd down. Packers have a way more talented roster. If the Bears play like that all year, they end up closer to 8-8 than 4-12.
-
Keeping Cutler will come back to haunt them.
They should've packaged Cutler with their #1 and a #2 or #3 to move up and grab Mariotta. I'm not basing that on yesterday as they played TB and that will easily be Mariotta's best game of the year. But long term, I see him as a more mobile Matt Ryan type. A year-in, year-out top 10 QB once he gets a couple years of experience.
Then use the money from cutting Cutler and go get a good OL and a good DB in free agency.
The decision to keep Jay sets the whole re-build back at least one year. Probably more, since I don't think they will cut him after this year either with no other option available.
-
Next year the GB will trade Tolzien to da Bears and move Hundley up to #2. ;D
-
They should've packaged Cutler with their #1 and a #2 or #3 to move up and grab Mariotta.
Was this even a possibility?
-
It wasn't that difficult? That was an insane break and read by Matthews. Some turnovers are just REALLY REALLY good defensive plays, not blame on WR or QB. That was a timed, quick throw. I was very upset about the timing of the TO, but I wasn't like "dammit Jay", more like "I hate how good Matthews is".
Fox's gameplan was fantastic. Cutler was ok, but very good on 3rd down. Packers have a way more talented roster. If the Bears play like that all year, they end up closer to 8-8 than 4-12.
My guess is that it was the result of film study where he deduced that Cutler likes to go in the TEs direction, and as soon as he saw him glance that way sprinted over there.
So yes, that was a great defensive play. But also it means that Cutler has his security blanket and a good player figured that out.
-
My guess is that it was the result of film study where he deduced that Cutler likes to go in the TEs direction, and as soon as he saw him glance that way sprinted over there.
So yes, that was a great defensive play. But also it means that Cutler has his security blanket and a good player figured that out.
You are correct. It was an atheletic play no doubt, but it was entirely based on pre-snap read.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000529139/Bears-Jay-Cutler-pass-intercepted-by-Packers-Clay-Matthews (http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000529139/Bears-Jay-Cutler-pass-intercepted-by-Packers-Clay-Matthews)
Here is the link to the NFL reply. The most interesting angle is from behind Cutler in which you can see Matthews read the TE release at the snap and head that way. In the defense GB was running, Matthews had responsibility for the central 5-15 yard area for crossing routes and he went the way of the tight end based purely on read.
If Cutler had looked off the TE, he had Royal on a shallow drag where Matthews had abandoned the zone
-
Yes. And that reminds me of the Raji interception in the Championship Game. He went back into coverage, read the QBs eyes, and the rest was history. If the QB simply looked over, Devin Hester was wide open. But that quarterback was Caleb Hanie. Not a guy being paid like a franchise player.
-
Matthews is a guesser (like Seau and Polomalu before him). Sometimes he's right and makes a big play, other times he's wrong and finds himself wildly out of position. On the biggest play of yesterday's game, he guessed right and made a big play. That's just how it goes sometimes.
Overall, I'm pleased with how the Bears played. GB is a significantly more talented team and the Bears were a play or two away from potentially winning the game. Having a legit NFL coaching staff makes a world of difference. Having legit NFL talent would help too ;)
-
https://www.youtube.com/e/-DPBgqKwvDs
-
Matthews is a guesser (like Seau and Polomalu before him). Sometimes he's right and makes a big play, other times he's wrong and finds himself wildly out of position. On the biggest play of yesterday's game, he guessed right and made a big play. That's just how it goes sometimes.
Overall, I'm pleased with how the Bears played. GB is a significantly more talented team and the Bears were a play or two away from potentially winning the game. Having a legit NFL coaching staff makes a world of difference. Having legit NFL talent would help too ;)
I think you're right about Clay when he is/was on the outside and was just pinning his ears back and trying to wreak havoc in the backfield. I like Clay a lot more on the inside. He is a lot more disciplined but his motor is always going so he still makes plays where he runs down the RB that has a wide open TD from the back side (although he was on the outside that play).
It wasn't that difficult? That was an insane break and read by Matthews. Some turnovers are just REALLY REALLY good defensive plays, not blame on WR or QB. That was a timed, quick throw. I was very upset about the timing of the TO, but I wasn't like "dammit Jay", more like "I hate how good Matthews is".
Fox's gameplan was fantastic. Cutler was ok, but very good on 3rd down. Packers have a way more talented roster. If the Bears play like that all year, they end up closer to 8-8 than 4-12.
It was a good play, but it wasn't some insane play that only Clay Matthews makes.
If Jay continues to follow the gameplans that Fox creates to minimize his deficiencies Jay can be an okay quarterback. But if the Bears fall to 1-3 or something early, what are we going to see from Jay? I guess we will see. He played a good game yesterday, especially by his standards, because he followed a very smart gameplan. But, at the end of the day, Jay turned the ball over inside 4 minutes left down by 8 well into Packers territory. It's what Jay has always done (that or red zone turnovers), and until it changes the Bears will not be going anywhere significant.
-
Keeping Cutler will come back to haunt them.
They should've packaged Cutler with their #1 and a #2 or #3 to move up and grab Mariotta. I'm not basing that on yesterday as they played TB and that will easily be Mariotta's best game of the year. But long term, I see him as a more mobile Matt Ryan type. A year-in, year-out top 10 QB once he gets a couple years of experience.
Then use the money from cutting Cutler and go get a good OL and a good DB in free agency.
The decision to keep Jay sets the whole re-build back at least one year. Probably more, since I don't think they will cut him after this year either with no other option available.
It's well known the Bears actively shopped Cutler this past offseason.
-
I never heard any talk that they were using him and draft choices to get the #1 or #2 pick, but I could be wrong.
Jay alone would bring a 5th rounder at best.
-
It was a good play, but it wasn't some insane play that only Clay Matthews makes.
If Jay continues to follow the gameplans that Fox creates to minimize his deficiencies Jay can be an okay quarterback. But if the Bears fall to 1-3 or something early, what are we going to see from Jay? I guess we will see. He played a good game yesterday, especially by his standards, because he followed a very smart gameplan. But, at the end of the day, Jay turned the ball over inside 4 minutes left down by 8 well into Packers territory. It's what Jay has always done (that or red zone turnovers), and until it changes the Bears will not be going anywhere significant.
I don't disagree, but also thats a throw that only a few QBs don't make. As I said before, I just call out the skill of the play by Matthews cause its not a blame game. I'm less aggravated by that then if that pick game on a forced throw to a double covered WR cross field as has happened enough.
As I said, the timing is annoying cause of the result and how neatly it fits into an old narrative, but otherwise, it didn't resemble a lot of the "classic Jay" INTs of the past. If that had hit Bennett in the ass or the drive otherwise stalled, it would be a storyline of the Bears playing well, Cutler playing pretty good, but not having enough talent. The fact that they were even in the game at that point was a testament to Fox and a more patient Cutler. Lets hope it continues just for watchability sake.
-
Time for the first "caught-on-video" fight of the NFL season. Be forewarned, the video is taken from the upper rows of the top-level, corner endzone seats. Lots of human decency up there.
https://www.youtube.com/e/vJZUoqDe4VQ
Apparently the lady was pissed off that Tony Romo was sitting behind her instead of being down on the field getting ready for the game. Given the way the game turned out, I think she feels pretty stupid this morning.
-
I never heard any talk that they were using him and draft choices to get the #1 or #2 pick, but I could be wrong.
Jay alone would bring a 5th rounder at best.
Look at the talent gap between the top and bottom starting QBs in the NFL... hell, look at the talent divide between starter and backup on any NFL team. There has always been an extreme dearth of either talent and/or parity at QB in the NFL (there always has been), not to mention, right around the middle of the pack there is always a huge drop-off. Put it this way, the difference between a guy like Rodgers and Cutler isn't even half of what the difference is between Cutler and someone like Bortles.
Moreover, a lot of otherwise "average" QBs in the NFL have been turned into elite players - if only for a season or two - because of the guys around them (e.g. Kurt Warner immediately comes to mind). The opposite is also true. Look at the current poster-child for this phenomenon, Tony Romo... the guy has been a top ten (possibly a top-five) fantasy QB over the past God-knows-how-many seasons, but like Cutler, his reputation is not commensurate with his actual accomplishments because he also trends towards "Tony being Tony" moments at the most inopportune times (or at least the moments that remain in fans' memories).
In short, Cutler may not be among the 8-10 "elite" QBs in the NFL, but a) there are 32 NFL teams and b) the QBs at the bottom are pretty lousy... much lousier than Cutler.
So give Cutler some credit; things could be worse.... a LOT worse. In another year where a team like Jacksonville had two elite veteran WRs and a lousy starting QB (i.e. the window of opportunity is closing), Cutler could easily be worth a 1st or 2nd round pick. The fact that he simply wasn't worth it this year has little, if any, indication on what kind of QB he is (or can be).
And this coming from a Packer fan.
-
Time for the first "caught-on-video" fight of the NFL season. Be forewarned, the video is taken from the upper rows of the top-level, corner endzone seats. Lots of human decency up there.
What really don't understand is why anyone would pay money, let alone go to a game and sit up there.
-
Time for the first "caught-on-video" fight of the NFL season. Be forewarned, the video is taken from the upper rows of the top-level, corner endzone seats. Lots of human decency up there.
https://www.youtube.com/e/vJZUoqDe4VQ
Apparently the lady was pissed off that Tony Romo was sitting behind her instead of being down on the field getting ready for the game. Given the way the game turned out, I think she feels pretty stupid this morning.
Be forewarned the video is 7 minutes long.
-
It's such a bad spot when you have a QB like Cutler or Dalton or Flacco or Russell Wilson.
Your only options are to overpay or draft a rookie QB and start over.
(BTW, I don't need to know how Flacco & Wilson won SBs. Just like McMahon, their defense won for them.)
I think it is WAAAAY too early to link Wilson to Cutler. The kid has made a lot more plays and a lot fewer mistakes, and, in general, he has done well in the clutch vs stinkin' up the joint. Flacco has rarely impressed me but I have to admit that he has come through many times. Cutler and Dalton? Maybe.
-
Look at the talent gap between the top and bottom starting QBs in the NFL... hell, look at the talent divide between starter and backup on any NFL team. There has always been an extreme dearth of either talent and/or parity at QB in the NFL (there always has been), not to mention, right around the middle of the pack there is always a huge drop-off. Put it this way, the difference between a guy like Rodgers and Cutler isn't even half of what the difference is between Cutler and someone like Bortles.
Moreover, a lot of otherwise "average" QBs in the NFL have been turned into elite players - if only for a season or two - because of the guys around them (e.g. Kurt Warner immediately comes to mind). The opposite is also true. Look at the current poster-child for this phenomenon, Tony Romo... the guy has been a top ten (possibly a top-five) fantasy QB over the past God-knows-how-many seasons, but like Cutler, his reputation is not commensurate with his actual accomplishments because he also trends towards "Tony being Tony" moments at the most inopportune times (or at least the moments that remain in fans' memories).
In short, Cutler may not be among the 8-10 "elite" QBs in the NFL, but a) there are 32 NFL teams and b) the QBs at the bottom are pretty lousy... much lousier than Cutler.
So give Cutler some credit; things could be worse.... a LOT worse. In another year where a team like Jacksonville had two elite veteran WRs and a lousy starting QB (i.e. the window of opportunity is closing), Cutler could easily be worth a 1st or 2nd round pick. The fact that he simply wasn't worth it this year has little, if any, indication on what kind of QB he is (or can be).
And this coming from a Packer fan.
Cutler's reputation is commensurate with his actual accomplishments, though.
He's 32 with one Pro Bowl (after throwing 18 INTs), and one playoff win (against a sub-.500 team, if I recall).
And Warner wasn't an elite player for just one or two seasons. I believe he had 7 or 8 years where his QB rating was higher than Jay's highest one.
-
(http://liquornwine.net/image/cache/data/Skol_Vodka1.75-500x500.jpg) QUEENS!!!!!!!!!
Not sure I can make it through this snooze fest. It'd be nice to wake up tomorrow to see everyone chasing the Packers already after 1 week. Not exactly what you want to do if you're anyone else in the division.
-
Vikings!!! Super Bowl!!!!
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
-
Time for the first "caught-on-video" fight of the NFL season. Be forewarned, the video is taken from the upper rows of the top-level, corner endzone seats. Lots of human decency up there.
https://www.youtube.com/e/vJZUoqDe4VQ
Apparently the lady was pissed off that Tony Romo was sitting behind her instead of being down on the field getting ready for the game. Given the way the game turned out, I think she feels pretty stupid this morning.
Hoping #19 can fill in on the line with the injury last night. Looks like she could mix it up a bit.
-
What really don't understand is why anyone would pay money, let alone go to a game and sit up there.
I don't like going when I get the really good seats. Football is made for TV, not worth the nonsense at the game. Too much downtime and boredom.
-
Vikings!!! Super Bowl!!!!
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
What an odd game. Zimmer/Turner seemed to try a bit to hard to get Teddy going. Lots of mistakes. Hyde looked great. AP standing on the sideline for so long without his helmet made me wonder if he got hurt.
Also, 49er alternate unis were hot garbage.
Question, does the NFL allow an alternate helmet?
-
Question, does the NFL allow an alternate helmet?
Only if you simply remove the logo. The NFL wants players to have one perfectly fit helmet so I believe that precludes different helmets.
-
Look at the talent gap between the top and bottom starting QBs in the NFL... hell, look at the talent divide between starter and backup on any NFL team. There has always been an extreme dearth of either talent and/or parity at QB in the NFL (there always has been), not to mention, right around the middle of the pack there is always a huge drop-off. Put it this way, the difference between a guy like Rodgers and Cutler isn't even half of what the difference is between Cutler and someone like Bortles.
Moreover, a lot of otherwise "average" QBs in the NFL have been turned into elite players - if only for a season or two - because of the guys around them (e.g. Kurt Warner immediately comes to mind). The opposite is also true. Look at the current poster-child for this phenomenon, Tony Romo... the guy has been a top ten (possibly a top-five) fantasy QB over the past God-knows-how-many seasons, but like Cutler, his reputation is not commensurate with his actual accomplishments because he also trends towards "Tony being Tony" moments at the most inopportune times (or at least the moments that remain in fans' memories).
In short, Cutler may not be among the 8-10 "elite" QBs in the NFL, but a) there are 32 NFL teams and b) the QBs at the bottom are pretty lousy... much lousier than Cutler.
So give Cutler some credit; things could be worse.... a LOT worse. In another year where a team like Jacksonville had two elite veteran WRs and a lousy starting QB (i.e. the window of opportunity is closing), Cutler could easily be worth a 1st or 2nd round pick. The fact that he simply wasn't worth it this year has little, if any, indication on what kind of QB he is (or can be).
And this coming from a Packer fan.
Pretty solid points all the way around.
As much as Bears' fans tried to embrace the benching of Jay with Jimmy Clausen being given a start late last season, it was VERY obvious to anyone who watched that game that Clausen is not in the same class as Cutler. Say what you want about him, but Cutler is a legit NFL starter and most QBs currently on NFL rosters are not.
The Bears couldn't move Cutler because of his salary, not because of his play. Take his contract out of the equation and there'd be at least 6-8 teams on the phone within Halas Hall as soon as he's put on the block. Unfortunately, his payment-vs-production ratio isn't up to snuff.
-
The Bears are in NFL Hell, which is why I didn't like the Fox hiring. They need to be really really bad for a couple of years, and hope that Pace is competent enough to draft, unlike the last few regimes. They are no where near close to contending for a Super Bowl, not any time soon. They can't catch up from years of terrible drafting and make up for it in one or two years. I'm not even talking about star players in the draft, the Bears have almost no 2nd/3rd round picks that they drafted on their roster, it's sad.
-
I think I read the Bears only have 14 players still with the team since the 2014 season, a lot of turnover in their roster lately.
-
http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2015-09-15/adrian-peterson-child-abuse-nfl-week-1-minnesota-vikings-san-francisco-49ers
-
The Bears are in NFL Hell, which is why I didn't like the Fox hiring. They need to be really really bad for a couple of years, and hope that Pace is competent enough to draft, unlike the last few regimes. They are no where near close to contending for a Super Bowl, not any time soon. They can't catch up from years of terrible drafting and make up for it in one or two years. I'm not even talking about star players in the draft, the Bears have almost no 2nd/3rd round picks that they drafted on their roster, it's sad.
I agree with you and I wasn't a real big fan of the Fox hire either, but it was understandable.
The Trestman regime was in over their heads and became a laughing-stock. The Bears believed that they needed a respected, experienced coach to come in, change the culture and get things back in order. Sure, they could have taken a chance and handed the reins to Adam Gase or some other coordinator, but John Fox was the safest choice to garner immediate respect from the lockerroom. The franchise couldn't afford another coaching whiff. It sounds better for the FO to paint the picture that Fox was hired because of his history of quick turnarounds, but I actually think he was brought in because he's a well-respected, professional football coach. In the end, I wouldn't be surprised if Adam Gase is the head coach when the Bears return to dominance ;)
Sidenote: IMO, a guy like Fox is who the Bears needed when they hired Trestman and the window was closing.
-
I agree with you and I wasn't a real big fan of the Fox hire either, but it was understandable.
The Trestman regime was in over their heads and became a laughing-stock. The Bears believed that they needed a respected, experienced coach to come in, change the culture and get things back in order. Sure, they could have taken a chance and handed the reins to Adam Gase or some other coordinator, but John Fox was the safest choice to garner immediate respect from the lockerroom. The franchise couldn't afford another coaching whiff. It sounds better for the FO to paint the picture that Fox was hired because of his history of quick turnarounds, but I actually think he was brought in because he's a well-respected, professional football coach. In the end, I wouldn't be surprised if Adam Gase is the head coach when the Bears return to dominance ;)
Sidenote: IMO, a guy like Fox is who the Bears needed when they hired Trestman and the window was closing.
How can you return somewhere if you've never been there? ;)
-
I agree with you and I wasn't a real big fan of the Fox hire either, but it was understandable.
The Trestman regime was in over their heads and became a laughing-stock. The Bears believed that they needed a respected, experienced coach to come in, change the culture and get things back in order. Sure, they could have taken a chance and handed the reins to Adam Gase or some other coordinator, but John Fox was the safest choice to garner immediate respect from the lockerroom. The franchise couldn't afford another coaching whiff. It sounds better for the FO to paint the picture that Fox was hired because of his history of quick turnarounds, but I actually think he was brought in because he's a well-respected, professional football coach. In the end, I wouldn't be surprised if Adam Gase is the head coach when the Bears return to dominance ;)
Sidenote: IMO, a guy like Fox is who the Bears needed when they hired Trestman and the window was closing.
http://www.barstoolsports.com/chicago/matt-forte-and-matt-slauson-basically-say-what-we-already-knew-last-years-team-quit-and-hated-the-entire-coaching-staff/
-
...and the middle of the Packers defense/Packer's run defense gets even softer. Barrington out for the year. One more time...you cannot completely choke away championships like the Packers did, even more so in football than in any other sport.
-
The Bears are in NFL Hell, which is why I didn't like the Fox hiring.
Hence, my point about moving Jay to clear up money to go sign quality players.
But, I disagree with you about the Fox hiring. Job #1 is to change the entire culture of the team and Fox is one of only a handful of guys who can do that.
Getting the QB of the future #2. Jay will never be the guy. Arm strength is irrelevant. It's all about the head and Jay will never make the grade in that category.
Aaron runs the show, Brady runs the show. So do Brees, Luck, Rothelsberger, Rivers, Peyton, etc There is no question who the leader is. Jay will never, ever be that guy.
-
Hence, my point about moving Jay to clear up money to go sign quality players.
If there was anyone willing to take him and his contract, they would have moved him.
-
http://www.barstoolsports.com/chicago/matt-forte-and-matt-slauson-basically-say-what-we-already-knew-last-years-team-quit-and-hated-the-entire-coaching-staff/
Frankly, that's at least as big an indictment of Forte, Slauson and the rest of the players as it is the former coaching staff.
There's no "i" in "quit," fellas.
-
Hence, my point about moving Jay to clear up money to go sign quality players.
But, I disagree with you about the Fox hiring. Job #1 is to change the entire culture of the team and Fox is one of only a handful of guys who can do that.
Getting the QB of the future #2. Jay will never be the guy. Arm strength is irrelevant. It's all about the head and Jay will never make the grade in that category.
Aaron runs the show, Brady runs the show. So do Brees, Luck, Rothelsberger, Rivers, Peyton, etc There is no question who the leader is. Jay will never, ever be that guy.
Problem is Fox makes your team respectable and probably win a couple games you shouldn't. Bears need to bottom out, to get (or try to get) the next stud QB, and that's easier to do by being awful.
-
How can you return somewhere if you've never been there? ;)
The Bears dominated the 30s and 40s! :P
-
Aaron runs the show, Brady runs the show. So do Brees, Luck, Rothelsberger, Rivers, Peyton, etc
Therein lies the problem for the Bears (and many other teams). Who exactly is etc? You could probably throw Flacco, Romo and Wilson on that list, maybe Eli and Matt Ryan., and with these guys I'm beginning to reach. After that, it's a whole lotta not good, and seemingly getting worse every year, at the same time the guys on that list continue to get older and worse. It's looking like Peyton could come off the list today. Rothlesberger, Brees not far behind. The QB talent pool is shrinking, not getting bigger.
I don't think it is necessarily the lock everyone seems to think it is that Cutler is gonna be gone soon. We see more and more every year that these guys don't grow on trees, and despite all of his warts, the altnatives could be no better and easily worse.
-
Problem is Fox makes your team respectable and probably win a couple games you shouldn't. Bears need to bottom out, to get (or try to get) the next stud QB, and that's easier to do by being awful.
Great thought, but per post a minute ago, who is that going to be? For that matter, who was the last one? Luck and Wilson obviously come to mind, but and how long ago was that already?
More recently, I liked Marriotta coming out (reminded me a little of Rodgers), but definitely have my doubts. Time will tell, but I wouldn't be betting on him being anything special.
Stud QBs are as rare as they've ever been, and getting more rare every year.
-
Problem is Fox makes your team respectable and probably win a couple games you shouldn't. Bears need to bottom out, to get (or try to get) the next stud QB, and that's easier to do by being awful.
Since the year 2000, there have only been two quarterbacks drafted in the top ten picks who have won Super Bowls. Payton and Eli Manning.
You can get good quarterbacks late in the first round. Even in later rounds. The problem is that the batting average on quarterbacks is just awful.
-
Problem is Fox makes your team respectable and probably win a couple games you shouldn't. Bears need to bottom out, to get (or try to get) the next stud QB, and that's easier to do by being awful.
I don't think they do, Dish. Rodgers, Brady, Brees, Romo, Montana, Wilson, etc. were not early picks. As a matter of fact, only Aaron went in the 1st round.
Maybe the difference is more about who is coaching these guys. Or even more, what is in the heads of these guys even before being drafted. None of the guys I mentioned were considered "big-arm" guys. But, those are the ones that enamor scouts. They are more impressed by the arms of Jamarcus Russell, Ryan Leaf, Jeff George, Matthew Stafford, or Jay because they can rifle a ball down field than they are in the thought process of a Rodgers or Brady or Wilson or the competitive fire that drives them.
-
I don't think it is necessarily the lock everyone seems to think it is that Cutler is gonna be gone soon. We see more and more every year that these guys don't grow on trees, and despite all of his warts, the altnatives could be no better and easily worse.
I agree that it's not a lock that Jay is gone after this year.
I disagree that the alternatives are worse. The worst thing is to be mediocre year after year (and Jay is the absolute definition of mediocrity), and then to decide you will continue on that same course.
-
I'm just looking forward to Hundley being the next Packers quarterback to force a guy who's being talked about as the greatest QB ever out of GB, ai'na?
-
PS, where's BeeJay been? Too much
(http://liquornwine.net/image/cache/data/Skol_Vodka1.75-500x500.jpg) last night?
-
Frankly, that's at least as big an indictment of Forte, Slauson and the rest of the players as it is the former coaching staff.
There's no "i" in "quit," fellas.
speaking of..
-
I'm just looking forward to Hundley being the next Packers quarterback to force a guy who's being talked about as the greatest QB ever out of GB, ai'na?
I was actually hoping the Bears would take Hundley but when all the "experts" picked apart his game, you could say that I cooled on him a little. As soon as GB drafted him my first thought was, "I was right! He's going to be good! S---!"
-
speaking of..
that's terrific.
-
I was actually hoping the Bears would take Hundley but when all the "experts" picked apart his game, you could say that I cooled on him a little. As soon as GB drafted him my first thought was, "I was right! He's going to be good! S---!"
Haha he does look good. It's always hard for me to tell, though. I mean, Matt Flynn always looked great in the preseason and got a starter's paycheck based on 1 insane performance at New England (that, shockingly, the Packer's special teams ruined for him). After that? Terrible since he left Green Bay.
But, from the things I've heard Hundley is a really hard worker (in the video room a ton). Oof the Packers media people said that of any QB who he has seen develop under McCarthy, Hundley has improved more in a smaller period of time than any other QB. Now there was probably a lot more room for improvement than, say, a guy like Rodgers, who obviously didn't fall to the fifth round, plus Rodgers got to develop over multiple years, so I'm guessing Hundley won't continue that type of improvement. But even though he never turned into a starting caliber quarterback, Flynn did improve a ton, as has Tolzien. So it still says quite a bit about Hundley. Plus, Hundley is a lot more physically gifted than Tolzien and Flynn ever were/will be.
We'll see. It's certainly a nice value pick in the 5th round.
-
But, from the things I've heard Hundley is a really hard worker (in the video room a ton). Oof the Packers media people said that of any QB who he has seen develop under McCarthy, Hundley has improved more in a smaller period of time than any other QB. Now there was probably a lot more room for improvement than, say, a guy like Rodgers, who obviously didn't fall to the fifth round, plus Rodgers got to develop over multiple years, so I'm guessing Hundley won't continue that type of improvement. But even though he never turned into a starting caliber quarterback, Flynn did improve a ton, as has Tolzien. So it still says quite a bit about Hundley. Plus, Hundley is a lot more physically gifted than Tolzien and Flynn ever were/will be.
We'll see. It's certainly a nice value pick in the 5th round.
GB drafting Hundley is a perfect example of what a team can do when it drafts well. The Packers used a 5th Round pick on a third-string QB who has plenty of time to develop. A few picks earlier, the Bears selected a player who, ready or not, was the starting free safety in Week 1. For all we know, Adrian Amos could turn out to be an excellent safety and Hundley might be a career third-stringer, but being GB's position in the draft is where teams want to be.
Even Emery's best draft picks came with issues. The Bears traded up to get Jeffery even though it likely wasn't necessary and Kyle Long was a projected as a 2-3 Round pick who the Bears took 20th overall. Yes, he's proven to be a legit 1st Round talent, but the Bears would have been better off with Floyd or even Rhodes or Trufant in Round 1 and Long in Round 2, as opposed to Long in 1 and back-up LB Jon Bostic in Round 2.
-
GB drafting Hundley is a perfect example of what a team can do when it drafts well. The Packers used a 5th Round pick on a third-string QB who has plenty of time to develop. A few picks earlier, the Bears selected a player who, ready or not, was the starting free safety in Week 1. For all we know, Adrian Amos could turn out to be an excellent safety and Hundley might be a career third-stringer, but being GB's position in the draft is where teams want to be.
Even Emery's best draft picks came with issues. The Bears traded up to get Jeffery even though it likely wasn't necessary and Kyle Long was a projected as a 2-3 Round pick who the Bears took 20th overall. Yes, he's proven to be a legit 1st Round talent, but the Bears would have been better off with Floyd or even Rhodes or Trufant in Round 1 and Long in Round 2, as opposed to Long in 1 and back-up LB Jon Bostic in Round 2.
Difference in philosophy in drafting for need versus drafting based on value
-
Therein lies the problem for the Bears (and many other teams). Who exactly is etc? You could probably throw Flacco, Romo and Wilson on that list, maybe Eli and Matt Ryan., and with these guys I'm beginning to reach. After that, it's a whole lotta not good, and seemingly getting worse every year, at the same time the guys on that list continue to get older and worse. It's looking like Peyton could come off the list today. Rothlesberger, Brees not far behind. The QB talent pool is shrinking, not getting bigger.
Hey, my man Cam Newton will make you eat them words!
(OK ... so it's wishful thinking.)
-
Bulaga sidelined during practice with "knee discomfort" on the knee he tore his ACL on in 2013. AKA, he's done for the year.
-
Im officially done betting on the Chiefs, and especially Andy Reid. What an absolute buffoon. The fumble was karma for how bad he managed that game.
Between him and Petrino's hilariously bad playcalling in the Louisville-Clemson game, it was a moronic offensive coaching masterclass.
-
What'd Petrino do? Didn't watch any of that.
The last minute of that Broncos game was a nice 14 point swing in my favor in fantasy. Have Emmanuel and the Broncos kicker, playing against Charles.
Too bad I also have CJ Anderson...
-
Bulaga sidelined during practice with "knee discomfort" on the knee he tore his ACL on in 2013. AKA, he's done for the year.
Just an MCL sprain. I can live with that.
Also, Thursday Night Football is 2 for 2 on good games so far this year.
-
What'd Petrino do? Didn't watch any of that.
Brett Venebles, the Clemson DC, was blitzing the heck out of Louisville's QB all game. Redshirt freshman, and they also rotated in an option guy who was little threat to throw. In the face of an INSANE rush, Petrino called maybe 2 screens all game, one of which was on their last drive. They basically either ran delayed handoffs inside or threw deep down the line. If their ridiculous KR didn't take a KO to the house late in the 4th, they would have lost by 10-14.
They also got the ball, first down, at the Clemson 35 with 50 seconds left and ended up throwing a hail mary with 7 seconds left...on 3rd down. It was HORRIBLE.
-
Brett Venebles, the Clemson DC, was blitzing the heck out of Louisville's QB all game. Redshirt freshman, and they also rotated in an option guy who was little threat to throw. In the face of an INSANE rush, Petrino called maybe 2 screens all game, one of which was on their last drive. They basically either ran delayed handoffs inside or threw deep down the line. If their ridiculous KR didn't take a KO to the house late in the 4th, they would have lost by 10-14.
They also got the ball, first down, at the Clemson 35 with 50 seconds left and ended up throwing a hail mary with 7 seconds left...on 3rd down. It was HORRIBLE.
The sun was in his eyes.
-
Just an MCL sprain. I can live with that.
Also, Thursday Night Football is 2 for 2 on good games so far this year.
Per twitter, also needs a meniscus repair
-
SKOL Vikings. The CONSENSUS is set to strike back tomorrow!
-
SKOL Vikings. The CONSENSUS is set to strike back tomorrow!
Just like when the Packers went winless when Aaron Rodgers missed 6 straight games a few years ago and still won the Division, it's never been about the Division for the Packers. It's whether they can overcome these injuries in terms of the Super Bowl.
-
Just like when the Packers went winless when Aaron Rodgers missed 6 straight games a few years ago and still won the Division, it's never been about the Division for the Packers. It's whether they can overcome these injuries in terms of the Super Bowl.
Oh. Well then tough year for you, bruh.
The TRUE MEASURING STICK to be looked at is SUPER BOWL APPEARANCES.
Anything else is fluff.
-
Oh. Well then tough year for you, bruh.
The TRUE MEASURING STICK to be looked at is SUPER BOWL APPEARANCES.
Anything else is fluff.
Hahaha
-
Cutler sucks. The Bears are only tied and not winning because Cutler is playing and not Clausen...
-
Cutler sucks. The Bears are only tied and not winning because Cutler is playing and not Clausen...
If you're cool with Cutler being your quarterback, enjoy never winning anything. That's all I can really say about it. And you can say whatever you want, but...
1 post season win. In his 10th season now.
You're right, he's awesome.
-
Cutler sucks. The Bears are only tied and not winning because Cutler is playing and not Clausen...
Oops.
Ever heard the phrase "Karma's a b!tch?"
-
Oops.
Ever heard the phrase "Karma's a b!tch?"
Nah, just you. Because Jimmy Clausen is obviously the answer...
-
Nah, just you. Because Jimmy Clausen is obviously the answer...
Not sure anybody's ever said Jimmy Clausen is better than Jay Cutler. But hey, if you read that somewhere, cool!
Hilarious that you applaud Cutler for keeping his team tied in the 1st half (if that's not when you know you have a terrible quarterback, I don't know what is) and then he goes and throws a pick, and knocks himself out of the game trying to make a tackle.
-
Jimmy hasn't given the Cards great field position by turning the ball over yet like Jay did, though. So maybe you're onto something here...
-
Not sure anybody's ever said Jimmy Clausen is better than Jay Cutler. But hey, if you read that somewhere, cool!
Hilarious that you applaud Cutler for keeping his team tied in the 1st half (if that's not when you know you have a terrible quarterback, I don't know what is) and then he goes and throws a pick, and knocks himself out of the game trying to make a tackle.
Lol. The guy was 8-8 for 100+ with a TD and no TOs before the pick. What more do you want in a half?
-
Lol. The guy was 8-8 for 100+ with a TD and no TOs before the pick. What more do you want in a half?
How about not turn the ball over and set your opponent up for easy points?I don't know. I like that part in a QB. Maybe I'm alone there. Lol.
-
How about not turn the ball over and set your opponent up for easy points?I don't know. I like that part in a QB. Maybe I'm alone there. Lol.
I can't wait until a time where the Packers don't have a Favre or a Rodgers. Then we'll see your reaction to mediciore to decent QBs
-
I can't wait until a time where the Packers don't have a Favre or a Rodgers. Then we'll see your reaction to mediciore to decent QBs
Yeah. I won't like it at all. It's pretty simple.
But we have Hundly ready to push Rodgers out. So you can keep waiting.
You're the one who brought this up today. "Hey look! We're tied half way through the 2nd quarter! Cutler's awesome!"
-
How about not turn the ball over and set your opponent up for easy points?I don't know. I like that part in a QB. Maybe I'm alone there. Lol.
I was addressing your point mocking the fact that the bears were tied in the first half. Cutler was having a great game to that point.
-
I want to set myself on fire after watching second half of Pokes/Eagles.
-
I was thinking about poking my eyes out.
-
I want to set myself on fire after watching second half of Pokes/Eagles.
After watching Romo go down, I tried. Couldn't get the match to light.
-
So, when is Chip Kelly going to revolutionize the NFL?
-
Packers might not have 22 healthy players by the end of this game.
How many carts do they have available in Lambeau?
-
Yeah. I won't like it at all. It's pretty simple.
But we have Hundly ready to push Rodgers out. So you can keep waiting.
You're the one who brought this up today. "Hey look! We're tied half way through the 2nd quarter! Cutler's awesome!"
Hundley will not be Rodgers replacement. Rodgers will be around long after Hundley leaves the team.
-
Hundley will not be Rodgers replacement. Rodgers will be around long after Hundley leaves the team.
I know. It was a joke.
Although I'm not sure Hundley won't just be a career backup type of player. Yes, he looked great and is young so you would think will continue to improve. But so did Flynn for a couple years in preseason and a game in New England.
-
I know. It was a joke.
Although I'm not sure Hundley won't just be a career backup type of player. Yes, he looked great and is young so you would think will continue to improve. But so did Flynn for a couple years in preseason and a game in New England.
That guy has made so much money because of that.
-
I know. It was a joke.
Although I'm not sure Hundley won't just be a career backup type of player. Yes, he looked great and is young so you would think will continue to improve. But so did Flynn for a couple years in preseason and a game in New England.
I watched Hundley for three years with my beloved Bruins....he couldn't touch Josh Rosen's jock strap, the current 18 year old UCLA QB. I liked Hundley, but not very smart with the ball and overall decision making, not much touch on his ball. His feet, strength and grit were huge pluses.
I would hope that by serving as a backup for a few years in the NFL, he will mature into a smarter QB. He's a smart guy overall, but plays hurried and panicky too much. Hard for me to see him as anything but a journeyman.
-
That guy has made so much money because of that.
Yup. He has. Must be awesome for him. 7th round pick, average college QB, and 1 game gets him a starter's contract, to be a career backup.
On another note, the Seahawks are absolute clowns. Every time it looks bleak for them the cheap shots come out. I don't think there's another team in sports I hate more.
-
Cats in the bag and the bag's in da river, ai na?
-
Mr. August Jayrone Elliot showing up in September. Liked him since he got his 7 sacks against a bunch of 3rd stringers last preseason. Big guy with some athleticism.
Also, maybe I'm totally wrong on this, but I don't think Mac would've called that drive that Clements did when we were down 1 in the 4th. Going no running back the entire drive, bringing Cobb and Rodgers out of the backfield, quick throws to the flats. I think Mac continues to try to keep the offense balanced is perfectly happy if that means settling for a 2 point lead rather than 7. I could be totally wrong and maybe Mac came up with that idea, but either way, I loved it. That's my dream Packers drive. Obviously you can't go totally pass, but we have the best football player in the world. Let him do his thing.
-
Mr. August Jayrone Elliot showing up in September. Liked him since he got his 7 sacks against a bunch of 3rd stringers last preseason. Big guy with some athleticism.
Also, maybe I'm totally wrong on this, but I don't think Mac would've called that drive that Clements did when we were down 1 in the 4th. Going no running back the entire drive, bringing Cobb and Rodgers out of the backfield, quick throws to the flats. I think Mac continues to try to keep the offense balanced is perfectly happy if that means settling for a 2 point lead rather than 7. I could be totally wrong and maybe Mac came up with that idea, but either way, I loved it. That's my dream Packer's drive. Obviously you can't go totally pass, but we have the best football player in the world. Let him do his thing.
Yup. I've thought that for a while.
-
Yup. I've thought that for a while.
Ditto.
-
Lol. The guy was 8-8 for 100+ with a TD and no TOs before the pick. What more do you want in a half?
I'm agnostic on Cutler, just a long-time observer.
This is his M.O. For stretches -- even fairly long stretches -- he can look like a dominant, top-5 QB. It's why he makes ridiculous money and it's why many GMs and coaches have drooled over him.
But he makes the kind of mistakes no top-5 QB makes, and building a team around a QB like that is dangerous. You pay him a ton of money, eating up salary cap you could use to upgrade at other positions, and you don't win.
Do Rodgers, Brady and Roethlisberger make mistakes? Of course. Do they make the same mistakes over and over and over and over and over again? We all know the answer to that one.
Of course Clausen isn't better than Cutler. If he were, he'd already be a starter in the league. The Bears have put themselves in a position in which they are screwed with Cutler and screwed without him.
Cutler is one of those vexing athletes, the kind coaches and GMs are convinced they need to win but one who ultimately proves he is not a winner. You're scared to dump him because you have nobody better and you don't want to dump the guy who, under the "right" coach/coordinator, becomes the next Favre. So you keep him and, all too often, watch him perform like Favre at his worst.
The guy has played on some pretty talented Denver and Chicago teams, and he has won exactly one playoff game while serving up some amazing choke jobs.
So ...
Cutler goes 8-for-8 and has the Bears in decent position. He then throws a pick-6 and gets hurt trying to make the tackle, and the Bears go on to lose big.
Talk about the perfect example of "microcosm of his career."
-
I have a degree from Vandy, so I would have LOVED for Cutler to be a star. But as MU82 says, he is a very talented guy...who has an incredible knack for making big mistakes. The Bears gambled that he could reduce his mistakes - he can't - or that they could build a team around him that is strong enough to cover for them - they haven't - so now are in the difficult position of just living with him until they can find someone else willing to take him. It sometimes happens when you bet the farm on a guy with raw talent, but not much else.
-
I watched Hundley for three years with my beloved Bruins....he couldn't touch Josh Rosen's jock strap, the current 18 year old UCLA QB. I liked Hundley, but not very smart with the ball and overall decision making, not much touch on his ball. His feet, strength and grit were huge pluses.
I would hope that by serving as a backup for a few years in the NFL, he will mature into a smarter QB. He's a smart guy overall, but plays hurried and panicky too much. Hard for me to see him as anything but a journeyman.
I guess you didn't see him during pre-season, he started out like in your quote but in the last game he was not hurried or panicking at all, very poised for a rookie after just 1 semester in QB school.
-
The road of so-so quarterbacks is littered with those who looked good in pre-season. He was playing against second team defenses that weren't specifically scheming against him.
-
So ...
Cutler goes 8-for-8 and has the Bears in decent position. He then throws a pick-6 and gets hurt trying to make the tackle, and the Bears go on to lose big.
Talk about the perfect example of "microcosm of his career."
I agree with this comment, in a vacuum. That is about the Cutler-est scenario possible. However...
The pick-six wasn't necessarily on Cutler. Bennett ran a stutter route designed to get the DB to close in, before the receiver continues on his route. Cutler threw to Bennett on the stutter and when he then continued, the ball was behind him. Even Cutler's release was awkward because he presumably saw Bennett start moving as he was releasing the ball. Having said that, we don't know if the play was designed that way and Cutler botched it or if Bennett faked out his own QB. AZ was in man coverage so Bennett shouldn't have sat down, which makes me think it was a misread by Cutler but Jefferson said that he didn't think Cutler knew what Bennett was doing so who knows? Either way, it was very Bears-like.
-
The pick-six wasn't necessarily on Cutler.
They never are. It wasn't his fault when he threw one in the 1st game either.
Just think about it. He throws more INTs every game than Rodgers has thrown in the last 2 1/2 years at Lambeau Field. That is why the Bears are losers. It's not the coach, it's not the OC, it's not the receivers, it's not the game plan. It is Jay.
It's amazing that the defense never makes a great play against AR or that GB receivers never make a mistake on a route..
-
They never are. It wasn't his fault when he threw one in the 1st game either.
Cmon...don't selectively quote him. Merritts specifically went into details about the play and how it most likely WAS his fault.
-
The road of so-so quarterbacks is littered with those who looked good in pre-season. He was playing against second team defenses that weren't specifically scheming against him.
was just commenting how much he improved from week 1 to his 4 TD game vs. the Saints
he was panicky/unsettled in his 1st appearance
-
The road of so-so quarterbacks is littered with those who looked good in pre-season. He was playing against second team defenses that weren't specifically scheming against him.
He played against the Eagles starting D and did well, but not against a team that had gameplanned for the Packers offense.
-
They never are. It wasn't his fault when he threw one in the 1st game either.
Just think about it. He throws more INTs every game than Rodgers has thrown in the last 2 1/2 years at Lambeau Field. That is why the Bears are losers. It's not the coach, it's not the OC, it's not the receivers, it's not the game plan. It is Jay.
It's amazing that the defense never makes a great play against AR or that GB receivers never make a mistake on a route..
Good god, can we stop this? It pains me to say it but Rodgers is probably the best player in the league, among discussions for best ever to play the position. Its stupid and unfair to Cutler. There is middle ground between saying something silly like "Cutler is a top 5 QB" and ridiculous comparisons to Rodgers and when found lacking, ascribing it to that being the reason the Bears have lost. Again, they were down 21-14 before the pick and Cutler was perfect.
-
Good god, can we stop this? It pains me to say it but Rodgers is probably the best player in the league, among discussions for best ever to play the position. Its stupid and unfair to Cutler. There is middle ground between saying something silly like "Cutler is a top 5 QB" and ridiculous comparisons to Rodgers and when found lacking, ascribing it to that being the reason the Bears have lost. Again, they were down 21-14 before the pick and Cutler was perfect.
I only attack Jay when the apologists say it isn't his fault.
They erred by keeping him this year - they would have been better off letting him go and signing two good defensive players with that money. Then with a high pick next year, they start over at QB.
Their GM needs to talk to Epstein and Hoyer about rebuilding a team. Either that or live in perpetual mediocrity. The Bears need players - lots of them. Jay makes no difference to the team whether he plays bad or good. He just guarantees continued mediocrity and nothing more. It is ludicrous to me for a team to pay $18 mil for a QB who probably doesn't rank in the top 20 in the league.
Sign a Ryan Fitpatrick type for a quarter of Jay's salary. They are very comparable QBs as far as what they can add to your team.
-
I only attack Jay when the apologists say it isn't his fault.
They erred by keeping him this year - they would have been better off letting him go and signing two good defensive players with that money. Then with a high pick next year, they start over at QB.
Their GM needs to talk to Epstein and Hoyer about rebuilding a team. Either that or live in perpetual mediocrity. The Bears need players - lots of them. Jay makes no difference to the team whether he plays bad or good. He just guarantees continued mediocrity and nothing more. It is ludicrous to me for a team to pay $18 mil for a QB who probably doesn't rank in the top 20 in the league.
Sign a Ryan Fitpatrick type for a quarter of Jay's salary. They are very comparable QBs as far as what they can add to your team.
I'm pretty sure they couldn't just "let him go" this past off-season and not pay him.
-
http://www.tmz.com/2015/09/21/marshawn-lynch-allegedly-threatens-13-year-old-boy-family-says/
Classy.
-
I'm pretty sure they couldn't just "let him go" this past off-season and not pay him.
You might be right - I think two years were guaranteed. I was thinking this was the 3rd, but it probably is only the 2nd.
-
You might be right - I think two years were guaranteed. I was thinking this was the 3rd, but it probably is only the 2nd.
Yea. But your general point is still right. And dish even said earlier that the bears shopped cutler around this off season
-
I'm pretty sure they couldn't just "let him go" this past off-season and not pay him.
No way the Bears could have moved Jay this year because of the contract. I'm no Cutler fan but he's actually been playing reasonably well this year. So far the Bears have played 2 playoff teams. Winning either game would have been considered a significant upset. Next week they'll get smoked at Seattle. But they are on a much better track toward the future even if the results don't show it immediately. Problem is that right now their talent is at the bottom of the division, probably by a fairly wide margin. But this is a product of the past, not current leadership. And remember, I'm a huge Packer fan so this isn't some Bears home cooking.
-
No way the Bears could have moved Jay this year because of the contract. I'm no Cutler fan but he's actually been playing reasonably well this year. So far the Bears have played 2 playoff teams.
But they are on a much better track toward the future even if the results don't show it immediately. Problem is that right now their talent is at the bottom of the division, probably by a fairly wide margin. But this is a product of the past, not current leadership. And remember, I'm a huge Packer fan so this isn't some Bears home cooking.
But, he still three game-changing INTs in both games.
And I agree with your 2nd paragraph completely. That is why they can't have $18 mil invested in someone who is not part of the future. $18 mil would get you 2 pretty good defensive players who will be part of the future.
Depends on their mindset, I guess. Rebuild like the Brewers have done and wallow in mediocrity for the most part or rebuild like the Cubs have done - burn it down and build from the ashes.
-
But, he still three game-changing INTs in both games.
And I agree with your 2nd paragraph completely. That is why they can't have $18 mil invested in someone who is not part of the future. $18 mil would get you 2 pretty good defensive players who will be part of the future.
Depends on their mindset, I guess. Rebuild like the Brewers have done and wallow in mediocrity for the most part or rebuild like the Cubs have done - burn it down and build from the ashes.
Is that feasible in the NFL? Players get injured/don't pan out and you can't stock talent in the minors. Coaching staffs are much more complex. Putting out a football product and readily admitting you aren't trying for a few years I feel like wouldn't go over well in a sport where you only play 16 times a year.
-
Is that feasible in the NFL? Players get injured/don't pan out and you can't stock talent in the minors. Coaching staffs are much more complex. Putting out a football product and readily admitting you aren't trying for a few years I feel like wouldn't go over well in a sport where you only play 16 times a year.
You're right, Jes.
I was using it more in the context of having big $$$ players on the roster who are not part of the future.
-
The only real way you can get better in the NFL is to start drafting well. And the Bears drafts have been TERRIBLE the past few years.
But it doesn't have to be a long process to become competitive if done well. 21 of the leagues 32 teams have been in the playoffs within the last three years. It wouldn't be *that* unheard of for the Bears to get there in 2017-18.
-
Pace isn't off to a great start in the draft department either.
I'd almost feel bad for Bears fans, but I don't.
-
Pace isn't off to a great start in the draft department either.
I'd almost feel bad for Bears fans, but I don't.
Jury is still out but I said right after draft day that kevin white is a terrible pick. How you don't go defense first round is still beyond me. Yes I know I don't get paid to do the job but still.
-
I didn't get a chance to respond to the replies about the Bears and drafting a QB early, but you guys were correct that you can get a good QB later than the first half of the first round (Brees, Brady, Rodgers). My point was the worse you are, the more access to players you have in the draft. All that said, as Sultan pointed out, the Bears have been as bad as you can be at drafting for a really really long time now. It doesn't matter if they draft early (Chris Williams), mid first (McClellin) or late first (Carimi).
The Bears need to be really bad this year. If you're not going to make the playoffs, you're far better off being awful than mediocre. The Bears seem well on their way to that. Might have to start watching a lot of Cal football at this rate.
Meant to say this before the season started, but I thought the Colts were going to be very mediocre this year. To me, they are a fascinating organization to watch right now. They have the most mediocre roster in the league (sans Luck). Their o line is at best average, skill position as average as it gets (put TY Hilton on the Browns, he's average). Worse part is, they haven't even paid Luck yet. You could argue, they should trade Luck (they absolutely won't), but Luck is going to occupy such a large % of their cap soon, that they are going to have to draft well.
-
I didn't get a chance to respond to the replies about the Bears and drafting a QB early, but you guys were correct that you can get a good QB later than the first half of the first round (Brees, Brady, Rodgers). My point was the worse you are, the more access to players you have in the draft. All that said, as Sultan pointed out, the Bears have been as bad as you can be at drafting for a really really long time now. It doesn't matter if they draft early (Chris Williams), mid first (McClellin) or late first (Carimi).
The Bears need to be really bad this year. If you're not going to make the playoffs, you're far better off being awful than mediocre. The Bears seem well on their way to that. Might have to start watching a lot of Cal football at this rate.
Meant to say this before the season started, but I thought the Colts were going to be very mediocre this year. To me, they are a fascinating organization to watch right now. They have the most mediocre roster in the league (sans Luck). Their o line is at best average, skill position as average as it gets (put TY Hilton on the Browns, he's average). Worse part is, they haven't even paid Luck yet. You could argue, they should trade Luck (they absolutely won't), but Luck is going to occupy such a large % of their cap soon, that they are going to have to draft well.
I remember watching Goff freshman year against northwestern and not being that impressed and last year I went to the NU, Cal game and a more duel threat quarterback got a majority of the snaps. Has he really improved that much?
-
I think Goff will probably end up going #1 overall, just a hunch at this point. I think he'll definitely turn pro, because the 2017 NFL draft is absolutely loaded up front, and 2018 NFL draft is going to be stacked at QB (pencil in Rosen as the top pick).
-
I agree with this comment, in a vacuum. That is about the Cutler-est scenario possible. However...
The pick-six wasn't necessarily on Cutler. Bennett ran a stutter route designed to get the DB to close in, before the receiver continues on his route. Cutler threw to Bennett on the stutter and when he then continued, the ball was behind him. Even Cutler's release was awkward because he presumably saw Bennett start moving as he was releasing the ball. Having said that, we don't know if the play was designed that way and Cutler botched it or if Bennett faked out his own QB. AZ was in man coverage so Bennett shouldn't have sat down, which makes me think it was a misread by Cutler but Jefferson said that he didn't think Cutler knew what Bennett was doing so who knows? Either way, it was very Bears-like.
I hear what you're saying, but they do tend to not be Cutler's fault a lot.
-
That is why the Bears are losers. It's not the coach, it's not the OC, it's not the receivers, it's not the game plan. It is Jay.
You know I agree with you on many things -- including about Cutler being a loser -- but this is far too simplistic and I'm pretty sure you know it.
One of the things I used to get a kick out of when the Bears and Packers played was when TV would put up a graphic listing the QBs who had started for the Bears during the years of Favre's consecutive-games streak. It was 20+, if I'm not mistaken.
The vast, vast, VAST majority of them were big-time losers -- and none of them was Jay, who didn't join the Bears until after Brett was long gone from Cheezland.
Since Ditka lost the team in his final season, the Bears have had lots of QBs come and go and most have sucked and the Bears have lost a ton. The only few years they've been any good at all were when they had dominant defenses and a good dose of smoke-and-mirrors luck.
Can't blame Cutler for the Bears being a hot mess coming up on 25 years now.
-
Worse part is, they haven't even paid Luck yet. You could argue, they should trade Luck (they absolutely won't), but Luck is going to occupy such a large % of their cap soon, that they are going to have to draft well.
Good point. And that will be Seattle's problem next. When Wilson, Wagner, Sherman, etc. were low $$$ players, they could go get guys they needed to fit in around them. It's a little different now that they've given out some big contracts. Chancellor got paid and already is jealous of the other guys getting paid.
Not many guys can do what Thompson does.
-
You know I agree with you on many things -- including about Cutler being a loser -- but this is far too simplistic and I'm pretty sure you know it.
One of the things I used to get a kick out of when the Bears and Packers played was when TV would put up a graphic listing the QBs who had started for the Bears during the years of Favre's consecutive-games streak. It was 20+, if I'm not mistaken.
The vast, vast, VAST majority of them were big-time losers -- and none of them was Jay, who didn't join the Bears until after Brett was long gone from Cheezland.
Since Ditka lost the team in his final season, the Bears have had lots of QBs come and go and most have sucked and the Bears have lost a ton. The only few years they've been any good at all were when they had dominant defenses and a good dose of smoke-and-mirrors luck.
Can't blame Cutler for the Bears being a hot mess coming up on 25 years now.
I agree that Cutler isn't the worst of the bunch. IMHO, he gets the most criticism because he's getting paid as though he is the savior when he clearly isn't.
-
That is why they can't have $18 mil invested in someone who is not part of the future. $18 mil would get you 2 pretty good defensive players who will be part of the future.
Whether the Bears kept Cutler or not, they were going to take a $16.5M cap hit this season (unless they found a trade partner, which wasn't happening). Yes, the could have signed at least 3 quality defensive FAs for $16.5M, but they didn't have it to spend. Keeping Cutler was the only option, especially when you consider that they have no young back-up on the roster who could be their future starter.
After Clausen gets destroyed in Seattle on Sunday, former 6th-rounder David Fales should get the starts until Cutler returns. Clausen isn't in the future plans so why not see if Fales has what it takes to at least become a serviceable back-up to the QB of the future.
-
Jury is still out but I said right after draft day that kevin white is a terrible pick. How you don't go defense first round is still beyond me. Yes I know I don't get paid to do the job but still.
Vic Beasley would have been an excellent fit in Fangio's D.
-
Vic Beasley would have been an excellent fit in Fangio's D.
Agree. On a bad team, if there is no QB available, go for an impact defensive player or offensive lineman. Receivers and RBs are a dime-a dozen.
That's what Frisco did to re-build.
-
Agree. On a bad team, if there is no QB available, go for an impact defensive player or offensive lineman. Receivers and RBs are a dime-a dozen.
That's what Frisco did to re-build.
And the Cowboys. Their improvement last year had almost everything to do with them making solid OL drafts.
-
And the Cowboys. Their improvement last year had almost everything to do with them making solid OL drafts.
Exactly. They committed to an O Line that would keep the quarterback upright (well, most of the time, I guess) and in turn were able to balance their offense.
-
Exactly. They committed to an O Line that would keep the quarterback upright (well, most of the time, I guess) and in turn were able to balance their offense.
You either need to have an OL that can dominate or a moderately good QB who can move in the pocket to be successful in this league.
I think developing an OL is the single most important aspect to building a successful team in the modern NFL.
-
I think developing an OL is the single most important aspect to building a successful team in the modern NFL.
I think that has always been the case. It's just rarely celebrated because they aren't the ones scoring or making the spectacular plays.
-
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/2c615db3987f4d3ba631d87dea368393/ragnar-viking-no-longer-teams-mascot
The Vikings mascot was looking for a 1,300% raise.
-
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/2c615db3987f4d3ba631d87dea368393/ragnar-viking-no-longer-teams-mascot
The Vikings mascot was looking for a 1,300% raise.
SKOL VIKINGS! ;D
-
You either need to have an OL that can dominate or a moderately good QB who can move in the pocket to be successful in this league.
I think developing an OL is the single most important aspect to building a successful team in the modern NFL.
If Beasley wasn't their guy...Snagging Ereck Flowers to play next to Kyle Long for the next 6-8 years wouldn't have been a bad route to take. Or locking Danny Shelton into the middle of the 3-4 would have been an upgrade for the D.
I understand that the Bears needed a play-maker and needed to replace Marshall but they had much more pressing needs than WR, especially when selecting that high. If Cooper was somehow still there, it would be a no-brainer to take him but, once he was gone, shift the focus to the lines.
-
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/2c615db3987f4d3ba631d87dea368393/ragnar-viking-no-longer-teams-mascot
The Vikings mascot was looking for a 1,300% raise.
Hard to blame him. I sure wouldn't go to any Vikings games for less than $20,000 a pop.
-
You either need to have an OL that can dominate or a moderately good QB who can move in the pocket to be successful in this league.
I think developing an OL is the single most important aspect to building a successful team in the modern NFL.
Demarco Murray behind the Dallas OL vs. Demarco Murray running behind the Philly OL (11 yards in 20 carries).
-
Hard to blame him. I sure wouldn't go to any Vikings games for less than $20,000 a pop.
;D ;D ;D
-
So... at what point do people start ripping on Luck for the TOs? (Luck>Cutler, in case anyone wants to know my position)
-
So... at what point do people start ripping on Luck for the TOs? (Luck>Cutler, in case anyone wants to know my position)
That luck performance won me my fantasy game this week. Best time for him to have his worst game of his career.
-
So... at what point do people start ripping on Luck for the TOs? (Luck>Cutler, in case anyone wants to know my position)
When he's been doing it for 9+ seasons like Cutler?
Luck is just starting his fourth season, so he is still learning. To put it into perspective, Rodgers had the best QB rating of his career in his seventh season overall, and his fifth as a starter. If Luck doesn't start making significant strides in the next couple of seasons, he will have plenty of critics.
-
So... at what point do people start ripping on Luck for the TOs? (Luck>Cutler, in case anyone wants to know my position)
We can't compare Jay to the top QBs in the league because it's not fair, but then we're going to...compare him to the top QBs in the league (with a window size of 1 game). Outstanding.
-
We can't compare him to the top QBs in the league because it's not fair, but then we're going to...compare him to the top QBs in the league (with a window size of 1 game). Outstanding.
It's a faux pas to point out that a QB has had a lot of turnovers recently right after a MNF game in which he had 4? Crazy.
Andrew Luck in his last 9 games:
184-331
55.5%
2010 passing yards
12 TD
14 INT
6 fumbles
68.17 passer rating
-
When he's been doing it for 9+ seasons like Cutler?
Luck is just starting his fourth season, so he is still learning. To put it into perspective, Rodgers had the best QB rating of his career in his seventh season overall, and his fifth as a starter. If Luck doesn't start making significant strides in the next couple of seasons, he will have plenty of critics.
Pagano is criticizing Luck already.
Also, Cutler's two highest passer ratings came in 2013 and 2014. Just sayin.
-
It's a faux pas to point out that a QB has had a lot of turnovers recently right after a MNF game in which he had 4? Crazy.
Andrew Luck in his last 9 games:
184-331
55.5%
2010 passing yards
12 TD
14 INT
6 fumbles
68.17 passer rating
Why 9 games? Is there something significant about that? Why not 10, or 16, or 18?
-
Why 9 games? Is there something significant about that? Why not 10, or 16, or 18?
No reason. Just found the statistics online, and the source listed his last 9.
-
I think that has always been the case. It's just rarely celebrated because they aren't the ones scoring or making the spectacular plays.
But.... the 3 teams that have spent the least capital on Offensive Linemen in the last 4 years?
GB, Seattle, And New England.
I wonder if that is often the case and if it would be the same that the best teams were spending the least amount of drat capital on OL. The line takes a few years to jell, so the better teams usually have veteran groups.
-
Why 9 games? Is there something significant about that? Why not 10, or 16, or 18?
Just noted on PTI (as Luck was their lead), that he has the most TOs of any QB since the beginning of 2014
-
My 1 question is, if Jay Cutler is paid like one of the top QBs in the league (he is) then why is it unfair to compare him to the top QBs in the league?
-
My 1 question is, if Jay Cutler is paid like one of the top QBs in the league (he is) then why is it unfair to compare him to the top QBs in the league?
The QB position is such an outlier for compensation, it matters, but doesn't matter.
Cutler is tied for 12th for average annual salary among NFL QB's. His 2015 salary puts him at 8th for this year, then in 2016 he drops all the way to 15th. The % guaranteed on the total value of his contract puts him at 28th in the league.
That's why it's impossible to use salary to compare, not just for Cutler, but any QB.
-
The QB position is such an outlier for compensation, it matters, but doesn't matter.
Cutler is tied for 12th for average annual salary among NFL QB's. His 2015 salary puts him at 8th for this year, then in 2016 he drops all the way to 15th. The % guaranteed on the total value of his contract puts him at 28th in the league.
That's why it's impossible to use salary to compare, not just for Cutler, but any QB.
Interesting and fair. Thanks for the explanation. The money some of there QBs get is crazy to me. Eli, Wilson, Flacco, etc.
-
Interesting and fair. Thanks for the explanation. The money some of there QBs get is crazy to me. Eli, Wilson, Flacco, etc.
Cutler still is maddening and should exit Chicago, that doesn't change at all.
QB salaries mainly matter more in WHEN you get paid, that really dictates what you'll get paid. Brady is the real exception, his re-do made him the 20th highest annual salary.
-
Sign a Ryan Fitpatrick type for a quarter of Jay's salary. They are very comparable QBs as far as what they can add to your team.
As a Jets fan, I'm thrilled to have Fitzpatrick. It's nice to have a merely below average QB instead of the wretched crap we've been throwing out there the last 5 years. It wasn't too long ago that I was hoping they would play friggin' Tim Tebow because he couldn't possibly be worse than Mark Sanchez (the football equivalent of the Dawson/Derrick dilemma).
-
Holy crap ... the single best bet of this (or maybe any season) would have been to load up on the Seahawks when they were only 9 1/2 point favorites over the Bears early in the week.
It's a sucker line now -- 14 1/2 -- and I don't think I'd touch it even though the Seahawks might win this game by 40.
I mean, Seattle could totally dominate (could? will!) but an interception or fumble could keep their lead to "only" 31-10, and then the Bears could score a garbage TD against second-stringers at the end to cover the spread.
But 9 1/2? Damn! I should have taken out a second mortgage, flown to Vegas and made some dough!
-
Skol Vikings!
The CONSENSUS!!
-
Skol Vikings!
The CONSENSUS!!
Yup, the Consensus 2nd place finisher in the NFC North remains in 2nd place in the NFC North.
(http://liquornwine.net/image/cache/data/Skol_Vodka1.75-500x500.jpg)
-
At the 2 minute warning, my Southside Chicago born-and-raised father-in-law says: "I tink dis is da worst game da Bears have ever played."
I responded that, sadly, it probably wasn't even in the bottom 10.
-
Yup, the Consensus 2nd place finisher in the NFC North remains in 2nd place in the NFC North.
(http://liquornwine.net/image/cache/data/Skol_Vodka1.75-500x500.jpg)
As a Vodka man I wouldn't use that stuff to light my fire pit......but as a Viking's Man I'm pretty happy with a 2nd place NFC North finish this year. With the D that is young, learning, but impressive (sans week 1) and an O that just lacks stability in the line (a BIG "just" that if rehab and a draft don't address will be an issue) I like our chances next year.
Being a Vikes fan this year is a LOT like being a Marquette fan.....couple of very sub par seasons, 2nd year coach that is looking at sustained success not quick fixes, really good incoming players/rookies/recruits, new facilities being built, and addressing systemic issues head on. Like the Warriors, the pieces are in place to make a lot of noise in '17 and beyond. But also, a lot could go wrong.
IMHO both have found the right leader for the next 7-10 years.
-
As a Vodka man I wouldn't use that stuff to light my fire pit......but as a Viking's Man I'm pretty happy with a 2nd place NFC North finish this year. With the D that is young, learning, but impressive (sans week 1) and an O that just lacks stability in the line (a BIG "just" that if rehab and a draft don't address will be an issue) I like our chances next year.
Being a Vikes fan this year is a LOT like being a Marquette fan.....couple of very sub par seasons, 2nd year coach that is looking at sustained success not quick fixes, really good incoming players/rookies/recruits, new facilities being built, and addressing systemic issues head on. Like the Warriors, the pieces are in place to make a lot of noise in '17 and beyond. But also, a lot could go wrong.
IMHO both have found the right leader for the next 7-10 years.
I hear ya, their future is certainly brighter than other teams in the Division, but as long as 12 is under center for the Pack, I wouldn't like my chances if I were any other team in the Division, even without Jordy coming back and all the other weapons around him.
I'm not sold on Bridgewater like some experts are, either.
-
At the 2 minute warning, my Southside Chicago born-and-raised father-in-law says: "I tink dis is da worst game da Bears have ever played."
I responded that, sadly, it probably wasn't even in the bottom 10.
I was expecting much worse. I hope O'Donnell gets an extra day off this week.
-
I've been saying the Packers will win the Super Bowl for some time, but the Cardinals are the team that looks really, really good this year.
-
I've been saying the Packers will win the Super Bowl for some time, but the Cardinals are the team that looks really, really good this year.
That team Palmer stays healthy, no reason they couldn't get there. Defense looks amazing.
-
I've been saying the Packers will win the Super Bowl for some time, but the Cardinals are the team that looks really, really good this year.
That team Palmer stays healthy, no reason they couldn't get there. Defense looks amazing.
They look good, but they have also played the Saints, Bears, and 49ers so far, with 2 of them at home. Those might be 3 of the 4 worst teams in the NFC this year.
I also don't see Larry Fitgerald keeping pace for 1,776 yards and 27 touchdowns this season.
-
That team Palmer stays healthy, no reason they couldn't get there. Defense looks amazing.
Thank god Arians didn't perform well enough in his mock press conference for McCaskey's liking. Bears really dodged a bullet choosing Trestman there... ::)
-
Thank god Arians didn't perform well enough in his mock press conference for McCaskey's liking. Bears really dodged a bullet choosing Trestman there... ::)
I started to type a similar comment, but it made me too sad.
Don't worry though, McClellin seems to have found his niche on special teams.
-
Is Clausen the worst NFL QB anyone has ever seen? Why would any team keep him as a backup?
He gives you a 0% chance to win and he's not going to get better.
And the two things you SHOULD look for in a backup QB are 1) gives the team at least a chance of winning, and 2) has the possibility of developing as an NFL QB.
An inexperienced rookie like Brett Hundley gives you more in both departments than Clausen.
-
Is Clausen the worst NFL QB anyone has ever seen? Why would any team keep him as a backup?
He gives you a 0% chance to win and he's not going to get better.
And the two things you SHOULD look for in a backup QB are 1) gives the team at least a chance of winning, and 2) has the possibility of developing as an NFL QB.
An inexperienced rookie like Brett Hundley gives you more in both departments than Clausen.
I would argue it could be 1 or 2. Not necessarily "and". I think if you are going to lose, lose with a guy that could be the future. I.E. David Fales. Not that saying Fales is the future, but Clausen is a known commodity.
A similar stupid decision is being made in Cleveland. Gotta see what you have in Johnny. You know what you have in Josh.
-
Is Clausen the worst NFL QB anyone has ever seen? Why would any team keep him as a backup?
He gives you a 0% chance to win and he's not going to get better.
And the two things you SHOULD look for in a backup QB are 1) gives the team at least a chance of winning, and 2) has the possibility of developing as an NFL QB.
An inexperienced rookie like Brett Hundley gives you more in both departments than Clausen.
Doubtful.
During my time in Chicago, the Bears started (among others) Henry Burris in a game, Moses Moreno in a game, Jonathan Quinn for 3 games, Craig Krenzel for 5 games, and Cade McNown for an entire season.
And that's just the Bears.
Injuries and emergency situations have caused teams to start a whole lot of awful, awful, AWFUL quarterbacks.
-
Same old Lions. Absolutely incompetent OC and a sub-par line (blocking scheme?) has turned Matthew Stafford into Joey Harrington. Could be the Lions and Bears fighting it our for the #1 overall pick.
-
Same old Lions. Absolutely incompetent OC and a sub-par line (blocking scheme?) has turned Matthew Stafford into Joey Harrington. Could be the Lions and Bears fighting it our for the #1 overall pick.
Tower, watching the game last night, I couldn't believe what has happened to Stafford over the last couple of years.
Looks to be bad coaching more than anything else - Stafford has very bad mechanics. I was afraid of the guy a couple years ago. Now I view him as Jay Stafford. Sure, he'll make some good throws, but he'll make the bad ones every game as well.
-
Terrible offensive scheme, poor blocking. There isn't a quarterback on the planet that can succeed with a crap scheme while having somebody in his grill on almost every throw. Stafford is not an elite quarterback. He is, however, the best Lion QB in 60 years. He just looks bad right now and I think I have made it clear where I place the blame.
-
Better than Milton Plum, hey?
-
If the Packers win I pick a perfect week in my pick em pool and win sone serious cash. So of course that means they're gonna lose today right?
-
If the Packers win I pick a perfect week in my pick em pool and win sone serious cash. So of course that means they're gonna lose today right?
bless you for picking GB!
-
If the Packers win I pick a perfect week in my pick em pool and win sone serious cash. So of course that means they're gonna lose today right?
I'm rootin' for ya.
Beer will be on CSFR!!!!
-
Tower, watching the game last night, I couldn't believe what has happened to Stafford over the last couple of years.
Looks to be bad coaching more than anything else - Stafford has very bad mechanics. I was afraid of the guy a couple years ago. Now I view him as Jay Stafford. Sure, he'll make some good throws, but he'll make the bad ones every game as well.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CP9ZRXAWwAAf_hf.png)
"Who is Matthew Stafford?"
-
Terrible offensive scheme, poor blocking. There isn't a quarterback on the planet that can succeed with a crap scheme while having somebody in his grill on almost every throw. Stafford is not an elite quarterback. He is, however, the best Lion QB in 60 years. He just looks bad right now and I think I have made it clear where I place the blame.
(http://cdn.fansided.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/35/files/2012/01/TheManyFacesAndEmotionsOfJimCaldwell.jpg)
-
(http://cdn.fansided.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/35/files/2012/01/TheManyFacesAndEmotionsOfJimCaldwell.jpg)
HAH!
Can I get 1 of Jay?
-
Jared Allen to Carolina. Interesting.
-
For a conditional pick, though.
Wouldn't be surprised to see him released after a couple games.
-
For a conditional pick, though.
Wouldn't be surprised to see him released after a couple games.
The contract was set up as a two year deal. He is guaranteed this year, so the Panthers will have to pay regardless.
-
The contract was set up as a two year deal. He is guaranteed this year, so the Panthers will have to pay regardless.
The Bears paid Allen's $11.5 million roster bonus this year and his base salary entering the 2015 season was only $1 million, so the Panthers are on the hook for roughly $882,000 the rest of the season.
-
Zero risk for Panthers, my guess is Bears get a 5th rounder for him.
He won't get moved, but if someone wants Forte, he's there for the taking. Issue is the $4.5 mil left in salary pro-rated for remainder of the season.
-
Zero risk for Panthers, my guess is Bears get a 5th rounder for him.
He won't get moved, but if someone wants Forte, he's there for the taking. Issue is the $4.5 mil left in salary pro-rated for remainder of the season.
Wow
-
Zero risk for Panthers, my guess is Bears get a 5th rounder for him.
He won't get moved, but if someone wants Forte, he's there for the taking. Issue is the $4.5 mil left in salary pro-rated for remainder of the season.
Do they see Langford as the future Dish?
-
Do they see Langford as the future Dish?
I see Langford as the future. That guy is real.
-
I see Langford as the future. That guy is real.
Funny story about Langford (and probably athletes in general) someone I worked with over the summer went to visit some friends at MSU last year and she started getting hit on by some dude. After rejecting his advances his posse said "don't you know who he is?" It was Langford, she had no clue who he was and didn't care but it's funny how people think they can get by on their name alone.
-
I see Langford as the future. That guy is real.
And yea, he looked good early. Forte is almost at that point of no return for running backs. The only graceful running back exit I can remember in the past 20 years has been Thomas Jones. Dude was unbelievably durable and consistant.
-
Forte is a UFA after this season, he's the one asset you probably realistically have that someone may want. Really doubt it happens, but I'd trade him in a heartbeat.
6th rounder for Allen, my mistake.
-
Bostic to the Patriots.
Big ole' garage sale in Chicago. Everything must go. Discounted prices.
Maybe Ryan Pace sat down with Theo recently?
If Forte goes, it may very well be a complete rebuild - which, I don't know if it's ever been done in the modern NFL.
-
What, no flyover tonight?
-
Packers didn't screw it for me. 16/16, gonna be a fun weekend.
-
Per the NFL channel, Jared Allen met with the GM and asked for a trade since he wasn't effective in the 3-4 and was given permission to make a list of acceptable trade partners. How many times is a player successful requesting a trade and being basically given away?
-
And yea, he looked good early. Forte is almost at that point of no return for running backs. The only graceful running back exit I can remember in the past 20 years has been Thomas Jones. Dude was unbelievably durable and consistant.
I'd add Barry Sanders.
-
Per the NFL channel, Jared Allen met with the GM and asked for a trade since he wasn't effective in the 3-4 and was given permission to make a list of acceptable trade partners. How many times is a player successful requesting a trade and being basically given away?
I think this is a good move by the Bears. Jared has one more playoff run in him. Bears must stockpile for the future. I agree with Dish that Forte is likely 'available'. Not sure if a playoff team has a need right now. Can't recall when the trading deadline is. Fire sale in Chicago. Use this year to see who has character and the desire to become outstanding. Hint: That ain't Kyle Fuller.
As to the Viqueens, they're a solid football team. Nothing wrong with a wildcard. The Lions appear to be done.
-
Per the NFL channel, Jared Allen met with the GM and asked for a trade since he wasn't effective in the 3-4 and was given permission to make a list of acceptable trade partners. How many times is a player successful requesting a trade and being basically given away?
It is exceedingly difficult to make trades in the NFL. (Unless you are trading an overrated running back to Indianapolis.) Even a conditional draft pick is better than nothing because it does give you some salary cap relief. I mean Jared Allen is old and didn't play well last year. It is hardly a given that he will be more effective than someone that Carolina could have picked off someone's practice squad.
-
It is exceedingly difficult to make trades in the NFL. (Unless you are trading an overrated running back to Indianapolis.) Even a conditional draft pick is better than nothing because it does give you some salary cap relief. I mean Jared Allen is old and didn't play well last year. It is hardly a given that he will be more effective than someone that Carolina could have picked off someone's practice squad.
I've always respected Allen. But the Bears move last year was typical of the old regime. Instead of figuring out that Peppers might restructure his contract and adjust his role, they went with Allen who couldn't play the position. Man the Bears front office was BAD.
-
I've always respected Allen. But the Bears move last year was typical of the old regime. Instead of figuring out that Peppers might restructure his contract and adjust his role, they went with Allen who couldn't play the position. Man the Bears front office was BAD.
Wasn't Allen playing a rush end in a 4-3 last year? That was the same position he was playing in MN. He was asked to play a different role *this* year in the 3-4. The Bears made the gamble that Allen was better than Peppers, and based on their 2013-14 season, that was considered a good bet at the time.
Peppers succeeded in making that switch because he isn't *the* man rushing the passer - Matthews is. And because he is a ridiculous athlete. Allen isn't really the same type.
-
It is exceedingly difficult to make trades in the NFL. (Unless you are trading an overrated running back to Indianapolis.) Even a conditional draft pick is better than nothing because it does give you some salary cap relief. I mean Jared Allen is old and didn't play well last year. It is hardly a given that he will be more effective than someone that Carolina could have picked off someone's practice squad.
What salary cap relief did the trade net for the Bears? My understanding is Carolina only has to pay Allen $823,000 compared to the $11.5+M he got from the Bears. It doesn't seem like the Bears are concerned about this years cap.
-
What salary cap relief did the trade net for the Bears? My understanding is Carolina only has to pay Allen $823,000 compared to the $11.5+M he got from the Bears. It doesn't seem like the Bears are concerned about this years cap.
$823,000. Enough to move a future roster bonus to a performance bonus for this year. (I didn't say it was huge, but it is something.)
I think you are assuming the market for Jared Allen was bigger than it was.
-
Wasn't Allen playing a rush end in a 4-3 last year? That was the same position he was playing in MN. He was asked to play a different role *this* year in the 3-4. The Bears made the gamble that Allen was better than Peppers, and based on their 2013-14 season, that was considered a good bet at the time.
Peppers succeeded in making that switch because he isn't *the* man rushing the passer - Matthews is. And because he is a ridiculous athlete. Allen isn't really the same type.
Exactly.
Although, Peppers is succeeding because he's trying again. He was a Lovie guy who basically mailed it in 2013 under Trestman/Tucker. I wonder if he would have found his fire again playing for Bruce Arians (and possibly Todd Bowles) ;)
-
I'd add Barry Sanders.
Wasn't there a Vikings running back that walked away with years left as well?
-
Wasn't there a Vikings running back that walked away with years left as well?
Robert Smith?
-
Robert Smith?
Yep - forgot about him. Retired after 8 seasons, had over 1500 yards his last year, and walked away.
-
At the 2 minute warning, my Southside Chicago born-and-raised father-in-law says: "I tink dis is da worst game da Bears have ever played."
I responded that, sadly, it probably wasn't even in the bottom 10.
http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/bill-swerskis-super-fans/n10151
Your wife's name isn't Denise, by chance?
-
Wasn't Allen playing a rush end in a 4-3 last year? That was the same position he was playing in MN. He was asked to play a different role *this* year in the 3-4. The Bears made the gamble that Allen was better than Peppers, and based on their 2013-14 season, that was considered a good bet at the time.
Peppers succeeded in making that switch because he isn't *the* man rushing the passer - Matthews is. And because he is a ridiculous athlete. Allen isn't really the same type.
I think you're right. And that fits with your system continuity comment in the other thread.
-
Allegedly, cowboys wanted forte before opening weekend. Pace said yes, fox said no.
-
Allegedly, cowboys wanted forte before opening weekend. Pace said yes, fox said no.
Uh....that's why you let the GM make these choices. Fox is looking at the season if not the game. Pace is looking on how to best build the team.
-
Allegedly, cowboys wanted forte before opening weekend. Pace said yes, fox said no.
According to...?
In exchange for...?
-
According to...?
In exchange for...?
https://mobile.twitter.com/AaronLemingNFL/status/648599133125767168
-
The Bears paid Allen's $11.5 million roster bonus this year and his base salary entering the 2015 season was only $1 million, so the Panthers are on the hook for roughly $882,000 the rest of the season.
This is correct -- it is almost no risk for the Panthers. As a Panthers fan who is thrilled the team is 3-0 despite getting almost no pass rush so far, I am very happy to add a guy I've always enjoyed watching. I'm hoping Allen has 4 good months left in him but really, anything the Panthers get out of him will be a bonus.
Thanks, Bears!
-
http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2015/09/report_broncos_safety_knew_lio.html#incart_most-read_
Lions OC so bad players from the other teams are telling the Lions players they knew what was coming.
-
As a pure football fan, I wish we could forward to February and have Packers/Patriots right now. I know there's other 3-0 teams, but those are the two best teams in football, and would love to see that game and everyone as healthy as possible. It won't happen, but it'd be incredible if both teams went 16-0 reg season, and met in the title game.
Rodgers is Jordan right now, he's the best QB I've ever seen. As great as he's been, this is his absolute prime right now. As poor as QB play is in the league, it makes you appreciate Rodgers that much more.
I think the Lions have just lacked authority more than anything. They've had superstar talent (Suh, Megatron), I like Stafford, he has a hell of an arm, but over all, they just seem to be missing "it" as an organization.
Last thing I think, I think Bears/Saints end up fighting for worst record.
-
Niners could contend for worst record with Tomsula, but he may be fired after A-Aron hangs 50 on them this week.
-
https://twitter.com/AllbrightNFL/status/648983348329644032
-
As a pure football fan, I wish we could forward to February and have Packers/Patriots right now. I know there's other 3-0 teams, but those are the two best teams in football, and would love to see that game and everyone as healthy as possible. It won't happen, but it'd be incredible if both teams went 16-0 reg season, and met in the title game.
Rodgers is Jordan right now, he's the best QB I've ever seen. As great as he's been, this is his absolute prime right now. As poor as QB play is in the league, it makes you appreciate Rodgers that much more.
I think the Lions have just lacked authority more than anything. They've had superstar talent (Suh, Megatron), I like Stafford, he has a hell of an arm, but over all, they just seem to be missing "it" as an organization.
Last thing I think, I think Bears/Saints end up fighting for worst record.
Maybe, but it is way too early in my opinion.
We'll see in another 10 weeks. Injuries have played major havoc so far this year early.
-
Maybe, but it is way too early in my opinion.
We'll see in another 10 weeks. Injuries have played major havoc so far this year early.
Injuries are indeed the great equalizer in the NFL. I have to admit, I did take a look ahead at the Packers schedule as 16-0 has now entered my mind. Won't happen, but it is feasible. Most important thing is really to be the best team when the playoffs begin. Have to survive the war of attrition between now and then.
-
https://twitter.com/AllbrightNFL/status/648983348329644032
Thoughts on possible places for Forte to land? I think his cap hit restricts teams that could make a play for him.
-
Thoughts on possible places for Forte to land? I think his cap hit restricts teams that could make a play for him.
After this weekend, his cap hit would be just over $5M. According to this, there are 20 teams with enough cap room to take him.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/
I think Atlanta might be interested. A dependable, proven back is better than the two alternatives they have playing there right now.
-
After this weekend, his cap hit would be just over $5M. According to this, there are 20 teams with enough cap room to take him.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/
I think Atlanta might be interested. A dependable, proven back is better than the two alternatives they have playing there right now.
Can't understand why Atlanta would be interested. Freeman had a great game against Dallas and is a very good receiver out of the backfield. Coleman was an early round pick this year.
If Atlanta wants to make a trade, they have a lot bigger need than RB.
-
They look good, but they have also played the Saints, Bears, and 49ers so far, with 2 of them at home. Those might be 3 of the 4 worst teams in the NFC this year.
I also don't see Larry Fitgerald keeping pace for 1,776 yards and 27 touchdowns this season.
Yup.
Also...
(http://liquornwine.net/image/cache/data/Skol_Vodka1.75-500x500.jpg)
It's okay, maybe someday your young QB will learn that when the opponent is dialing up the blitz he has to get the ball out quickly. And that inside a minute the absolute last thing you can do is take a sack. Took 1 sack, almost took a 2nd sack, and then got strip sacked to end the game.
Everyone in the NFC North is chasing the Packers by at least 2 games just 4 weeks into the season. Yikes.
-
Evidently Clay Matthews can't stand Colin Kaepernick (can't blame him). He also took that huge late hit on him in the Playoffs a few years ago.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000549666/Matthews-sacks-Kaepernick-mocks-bicep-kiss
http://thebiglead.com/2015/10/04/colin-kaepernick-russell-wilson-green-bay-packers/
He could do better than Russell Wilson, though. Daniels's "That's right!" is pretty funny after it too.
And normally I'm not a fan of players mocking other players' celebrations, but when it's this celebration and this player, I'm not mad about it.
-
It's okay, maybe someday your young QB will learn that when the opponent is dialing up the blitz he has to get the ball out quickly. And that inside a minute the absolute last thing you can do is take a sack. Took 1 sack, almost took a 2nd sack, and then got strip sacked to end the game.
Everyone in the NFC North is chasing the Packers by at least 2 games just 4 weeks into the season. Yikes.
This season was never about winning the division. Everyone knows the Packers were going to accomplish that. This season really has only one acceptable outcome.
The Vikings's rebuilding plan is going quite nicely. They have an outside shot at a Wild Card, but even Jay Bee knows they weren't competing for the division this year.
-
This season was never about winning the division. Everyone knows the Packers were going to accomplish that. This season really has only one acceptable outcome.
The Vikings's rebuilding plan is going quite nicely. They have an outside shot at a Wild Card, but even Jay Bee knows they weren't competing for the division this year.
I don't disagree with any of that. I just think it'll be quite a feat if the Packers go from week 1 through week 17 without ever having anybody even tied for first in the Division with them. That is something you very rarely see.
As far as the Vikings, they'll be good as long as Peterson stays away from beating children. I'm not sold on Teddy at all. He'll be okay, certainly better than Christian Ponder, but I don't think he'll ever be better than even Jay Cutler.
-
And normally I'm not a fan of players mocking other players' celebrations, but when it's this celebration and this player, I'm not mad about it.
Any player who has a "signature celebration," including your boy Clay Matthews, deserves to be mocked relentlessly.
How about those Bears? ;D
-
Any player who has a "signature celebration," including your boy Clay Matthews, deserves to be mocked relentlessly.
How about those Bears? ;D
Ehh, I don't usually hate them (don't love them either), but kissing your own bicep? Pretty lame.
But yeah I'm all for the Bears getting a few wins. The more wins for the Bears the better, in my opinion.
Now let's hope the Lions can get the Seahawks tonight!
-
The more I see the lions, the more I'm convinced that the only difference between stafford and cutler is Calvin Johnson. And people/the media's dislike of cutler's seeming careless attitude.
-
Suicide watch for Tower, tonite?
It really is a stunning stat that Stafford has never beaten a team on the road that finished over .500.
-
Is it legal to bat the ball out of the endzone?
Edit: Wow. Yes it was. Should have been Lion's ball
-
Any player who has a "signature celebration," including your boy Clay Matthews, deserves to be mocked relentlessly.
How about those Bears? ;D
If you were in a PED Pool (Dead Pool but for those who will test positive) isn't Clay your first pick?
The rest of my team: Gronkowski, Peyton Manning, Seattle, Darrelle Revis, AP (after ACL, maybe not this year). Second team: Drew Brees, Sean Lee, i'm sure i'll have 5 more after looking at this weeks fantasy roster...
-
If you were in a PED Pool (Dead Pool but for those who will test positive) isn't Clay your first pick?
The rest of my team: Gronkowski, Peyton Manning, Seattle, Darrelle Revis, AP (after ACL, maybe not this year). Second team: Drew Brees, Sean Lee, i'm sure i'll have 5 more after looking at this weeks fantasy roster...
Uhh, I would take about 98% of players in the NFL.
-
Uhh, I would take about 98% of players in the NFL.
Fair. I do wish that instead of a replay flag a coach could have any one player tested on the spot.
-
Is it legal to bat the ball out of the endzone?
Edit: Wow. Yes it was. Should have been Lion's ball
I guess there's a reason Seattle wins so often at home. Maybe there needs to be a situation like in baseball where you can protest a game and if it is a clear officiating error - as this was - then you pick up the game from where the mistake was made.
I know the logistics would be hard in the NFL, but that's twice now that they have gotten a gift-wrapped win.
-
I guess there's a reason Seattle wins so often at home. Maybe there needs to be a situation like in baseball where you can protest a game and if it is a clear officiating error - as this was - then you pick up the game from where the mistake was made.
I know the logistics would be hard in the NFL, but that's twice now that they have gotten a gift-wrapped win.
Even worse that this wasn't with replacement refs
-
It is the Lions. The rule of thumb for the Lions is that they will always find a way to lose that no one has ever seen before. Calvin Johnson not completing the process. A picked up pass interference call. Going back to Vince Evans. The question is never whether they will lose. The question is what unique way will they find to lose. No anger. Amusement.
So, watching Sportscenter this morning with my 8 year old. "Dad, that's not fair" in reference to how the Lions lost the game. "(Son), the Lions are going to lose. It is what they do. And they will find ways to lose that no one has ever seen before. Watch football. Love football. But never watch a Lions game expecting them to win. Watch them wondering what creative way they will find to blow it. Because if you become emotionally attached to the outcome of a Lions game, you will end up with a broken heart."
-
So, watching Sportscenter this morning with my 8 year old. "Dad, that's not fair" in reference to how the Lions lost the game. "(Son), the Lions are going to lose. It is what they do. And they will find ways to lose that no one has ever seen before. Watch football. Love football. But never watch a Lions game expecting them to win. Watch them wondering what creative way they will find to blow it. Because if you become emotionally attached to the outcome of a Lions game, you will end up with a broken heart."
Who knew that Cubs fans and Lions fans had so much in common?
-
I guess there's a reason Seattle wins so often at home. Maybe there needs to be a situation like in baseball where you can protest a game and if it is a clear officiating error - as this was - then you pick up the game from where the mistake was made.
I know the logistics would be hard in the NFL, but that's twice now that they have gotten a gift-wrapped win.
The major problem with the NFL's current replay system is that certain very correctable plays are considered to be "non-reviewable." When the head of officiating states that a call was blatantly wrong but also that it couldn't be corrected, there's a serious flaw in the system that needs to be corrected.
-
It is the Lions. The rule of thumb for the Lions is that they will always find a way to lose that no one has ever seen before. Calvin Johnson not completing the process. A picked up pass interference call. Going back to Vince Evans. The question is never whether they will lose. The question is what unique way will they find to lose. No anger. Amusement.
So, watching Sportscenter this morning with my 8 year old. "Dad, that's not fair" in reference to how the Lions lost the game. "(Son), the Lions are going to lose. It is what they do. And they will find ways to lose that no one has ever seen before. Watch football. Love football. But never watch a Lions game expecting them to win. Watch them wondering what creative way they will find to blow it. Because if you become emotionally attached to the outcome of a Lions game, you will end up with a broken heart."
There's hope, Tower.
I was a Packer fan in the 70s and 80s.
-
The major problem with the NFL's current replay system is that certain very correctable plays are considered to be "non-reviewable." When the head of officiating states that a call was blatantly wrong but also that it couldn't be corrected, there's a serious flaw in the system that needs to be corrected.
+1
-
The major problem with the NFL's current replay system is that certain very correctable plays are considered to be "non-reviewable." When the head of officiating states that a call was blatantly wrong but also that it couldn't be corrected, there's a serious flaw in the system that needs to be corrected.
Agree 100%. In this situation one ought be able to review the exact rule with the NFL office and THEN watch the tape. This isn't an 'inadvertent whistle' situation where you would need to allow the play on the field to stand. It's also not open to any reasonable interpretation that the player didn't intentionally knock it out. Obviously he did and the NFL is simply butt covering.
Look, I dislike both the Lions (sorry Tower) and the Seahawks but I do like games to be officiated correctly. If the rule states that the ball should have been Detroit's on the six inch line than that's what should have happened.
-
And let me add this. There seems to be instances where they do exactly that. Think back to the Dez Bryant non catch. The rule says categorically you must maintain control all the way to the ground without any bobble or re-grip. Hitting the ground caused Dez to bobble. Therefore incomplete by rule. So they took a very carefully written rule (doesn't matter if you agree with it or not, still the rule) and applied it correctly after watching the tape 50 times.
-
Trent Dilfer made an interesting point. He talked about how sometimes there is holding that occurs on the opposite side of a run play that doesn't materially effect the play and thus is not called. There was no Lion within 10 yards of Wright when it happened. He didn't directly prohibit a Lions recovery by a purposeful bat out. The ref may have deemed the ball was going out of bounds regardless with no Lions anywhere near recovery.
Listen, I get the rule, but I feel this was less of a "blown call" and more of a judgement call by the referee. Regardless it was incredibly stupid by Wright. There are far less obvious ways to get that ball out of bounds.
-
Trent Dilfer made an interesting point. He talked about how sometimes there is holding that occurs on the opposite side of a run play that doesn't materially effect the play and thus is not called. There was no Lion within 10 yards of Wright when it happened. He didn't directly prohibit a Lions recovery by a purposeful bat out. The ref may have deemed the ball was going out of bounds regardless with no Lions anywhere near recovery.
Listen, I get the rule, but I feel this was less of a "blown call" and more of a judgement call by the referee. Regardless it was incredibly stupid by Wright. There are far less obvious ways to get that ball out of bounds.
That is a great point and I think we can all agree that a hold 20 yards away on the backside shouldn't be called because it absolutely doesn't affect the play. But here, Wright's willful action absolutely affected the play. It specifically determined possession by rule. Now for him to know the rule would be a stretch but that shouldn't matter. Any viewing of the tape demonstrates that the ball way not yet out of the endzone and that Wright intentionally batted it out. Perhaps foolishly but that's what happened nonetheless.
Let me further add that this might require a change such that this type of play can be reviewed. If it's presently not allowed for review, then it simply goes down as a blown call where no recourse presently exists. Look, we have instant replay today because Jerry Rice didn't come close to catching that ball against the Packers in the playoffs 20 some years ago.
-
Trent Dilfer made an interesting point. He talked about how sometimes there is holding that occurs on the opposite side of a run play that doesn't materially effect the play and thus is not called. There was no Lion within 10 yards of Wright when it happened. He didn't directly prohibit a Lions recovery by a purposeful bat out. The ref may have deemed the ball was going out of bounds regardless with no Lions anywhere near recovery.
Listen, I get the rule, but I feel this was less of a "blown call" and more of a judgement call by the referee. Regardless it was incredibly stupid by Wright. There are far less obvious ways to get that ball out of bounds.
That's an interesting point, but it's a flawed point because the batting of the ball was so obvious.
If a team runs a sweep to the left and a WR split wide right, 30 yards away from the play, grabs a defender by his jersey and flings him to the ground, he's going to get flagged for holding because it was such an obvious penalty. If he gets his hands inside and gets ahold of the defender's shoulder pads, they'll let it slide.
You also can't assume that Wright was going to recover the ball. He may have muffed it while trying to pick it up or he may have had it stripped while trying to run it back or who knows what? The official can't assume that Wright was going to fall on the ball or carry it OOB.
-
Aren't all turnovers reviewed? So they reviewed the play but they couldn't do anything because they can't review that ruling?
-
Aren't all turnovers reviewed? So they reviewed the play but they couldn't do anything because they can't review that ruling?
Correct. All TOs are reviewed but the no-call on batting the ball is not reviewable.
-
Correct. All TOs are reviewed but the no-call on batting the ball is not reviewable.
I suppose this is where it gets sticky. We certainly don't want film review to determine IF a penalty should be called. That would get out of hand. I think back to the Packers game this weekend. Raji absolutely facemasked that guy but nobody saw it. Play on.
-
Trent Dilfer made an interesting point. He talked about how sometimes there is holding that occurs on the opposite side of a run play that doesn't materially effect the play and thus is not called. There was no Lion within 10 yards of Wright when it happened. He didn't directly prohibit a Lions recovery by a purposeful bat out. The ref may have deemed the ball was going out of bounds regardless with no Lions anywhere near recovery.
Listen, I get the rule, but I feel this was less of a "blown call" and more of a judgement call by the referee. Regardless it was incredibly stupid by Wright. There are far less obvious ways to get that ball out of bounds.
Then why did the NFL say it was a bad call?
The whole touchback rule is dumb though. In no other instance does the defense get the ball without recovering it first. The offense should get it at the point of the fumble if no one gets possession.
-
Then why did the NFL say it was a bad call?
The whole touchback rule is dumb though. In no other instance does the defense get the ball without recovering it first. The offense should get it at the point of the fumble if no one gets possession.
Agreed. Or at the very least, the offensive team should get the ball at the defensive team's 20 (not that I think that's right either, but at least it stays with the team that it should stay with).
-
The whole touchback rule is dumb though. In no other instance does the defense get the ball without recovering it first. The offense should get it at the point of the fumble if no one gets possession.
Agree. Makes no sense that the defense should gain possession. I get that you don't want the offense to benefit from a non-recovered fumble that moves forward, so just give them the ball at the spot of the fumble, or some other designated spot (2-yard line?).
-
The whole touchback rule is dumb though. In no other instance does the defense get the ball without recovering it first. The offense should get it at the point of the fumble if no one gets possession.
IIRC, Blandino said a week or two ago that the league would be looking at this rule in the offseason. Granted, that's probably what he says whenever an issue arises, but still. It appears to be on the radar.
-
Then why did the NFL say it was a bad call?
The whole touchback rule is dumb though. In no other instance does the defense get the ball without recovering it first. The offense should get it at the point of the fumble if no one gets possession.
As I followed this last night, I think I understand a little bit of it. The NFL said it was a bad call because according to the current wording of the NFL rulebook, there is no room for interpretation/subjectivity. Wright batted the ball = Lions ball. However, I'm sure we may see a rule change where there is some allowed interpretation by the refs in this instance going forward. My guess, based on the touchback rule, is that this rule was designed so that some defender couldn't bat it away from an offensive player recovering a fumble for a TD. However, in last night's situation, there was no Lion within 10 yards, so the bat didn't really matter.
In conclusion, it was a missed/bad call last night. In the overall "did the bat affect the play" line-of-thought, the answer has to be "no".
-
As I followed this last night, I think I understand a little bit of it. The NFL said it was a bad call because according to the current wording of the NFL rulebook, there is no room for interpretation/subjectivity. Wright batted the ball = Lions ball. However, I'm sure we may see a rule change where there is some allowed interpretation by the refs in this instance going forward. My guess, based on the touchback rule, is that this rule was designed so that some defender couldn't bat it away from an offensive player recovering a fumble for a TD. However, in last night's situation, there was no Lion within 10 yards, so the bat didn't really matter.
In conclusion, it was a missed/bad call last night. In the overall "did the bat affect the play" line-of-thought, the answer has to be "no".
The rule does not state that a player can't bat the ball out of bounds unless the official believes that the other team has no chance to recover it. It's not like no PI being called because a pass was overthrown by 20 yards. What you're arguing would be like saying that a flag for illegal contact shouldn't be thrown if the QB gets sacked since the QB wasn't going to get the pass off anyway.
-
My two cents.
I'm not a Lions fan but my Dad was. If I was a Lions fan watching that game, I would blame the loss on my WR for fumbling, not on the ref. It seems to me that it would be a bigger miscarriage of justice to give the Lions the ball back for a little-known ticky tack rule (the ball was going to go out of the end zone anyway, and I'm sure if the player knew the rule he would have just grabbed the ball) than for using judgement and letting the play stand the way he did.
OTOH, I agree with those who say that the fumble in the end zone rule itself makes no sense. In all other instances when the offense fumbles they get it back if no one recovers it inbounds. Seems to me they should get to keep the ball at the point of the fumble in that instance. If that was the rule, the Seattle player also would have just grabbed the ball.
-
The rule does not state that a player can't bat the ball out of bounds unless the official believes that the other team has no chance to recover it.[/b] It's not like no PI being called because a pass was overthrown by 20 yards. What you're arguing would be like saying that a flag for illegal contact shouldn't be thrown if the QB gets sacked since the QB wasn't going to get the pass off anyway.
Correct. I tried to make that distinction in my post. Apologies if that wasn't clear.
Your illegal contact scenario is intriguing to me. Perhaps it should be called that way. After all, don't refs ignore holding and other similar penalties if they are away from the play?
-
Your illegal contact scenario is intriguing to me. Perhaps it should be called that way. After all, don't refs ignore holding and other similar penalties if they are away from the play?
Only in extremely rare situations.
One could argue, fair or not, that the illegal contact played a part in the QB not being able to get the pass off. It would open up an enormous can of worms.
-
Correct. I tried to make that distinction in my post. Apologies if that wasn't clear.
Your illegal contact scenario is intriguing to me. Perhaps it should be called that way. After all, don't refs ignore holding and other similar penalties if they are away from the play?
But the illegal contact may have prevented the WR from coming open half a second earlier, which may have caused the QB to hold onto the football for an extra half of a second, which may have allowed the sack.
-
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CQpul_bUkAA10qu.jpg:large)
https://twitter.com/TDESPN/status/651454695257432064
-
But the illegal contact may have prevented the WR from coming open half a second earlier, which may have caused the QB to hold onto the football for an extra half of a second, which may have allowed the sack.
To you and Merritt, good points. Well taken.
I guess I just don't know. Last night it should have 100% been called. May need a tweak in the rulebook for the future.
-
The major problem with the NFL's current replay system is that certain very correctable plays are considered to be "non-reviewable." When the head of officiating states that a call was blatantly wrong but also that it couldn't be corrected, there's a serious flaw in the system that needs to be corrected.
It's actually quite simple:
When a team throws the red flag, they are not challenging an official's judgment, they are challenging the ruling on the field. So what's the difference?
On a fumble where the fumbling team claims the runner's knee was down, the ruling itself is objective - was control lost or was the knee/elbow down first... if the evidence to the contrary is indisputable, the ruling will be overturned. Sure, there could be some judgment involved in determining when control was lost, but unless the referee's judgment is also indisputable, then the call on the field is going to stand.
However, if you have a ruling on the field that cannot be determined objectively - e.g. just about every penalty (except 12 men) - all you can challenge is the official's judgement, and by definition, challenging an official's judgment essentially concedes the existence of dispute, and such being the case, the call on the field will always stand.
In this case, it's the judgment call of the official as to whether the ball was intentionally batted out or not... if there was a scramble, or if the player muffs a legitimate attempt to obtain possession, and the ball inadvertantly goes OOB, that's not a penalty. In this case, how can one objectively determine whether the ball was intentionally batted OOB? Nobody knows what was in the defender's head. Maybe he was trying to palm the ball. Maybe he was trying to bat it back to himself but had an inopportune muscle spasm at the last second. Maybe he decided at the last second not to attempt to gain possession. Who knows. We've all made up our own minds on what happened, but we've done so strictly by using our own judgment, i.e. no one has presented indisputable evidence that the player intentionally batted the ball OOB (which just so happens to be the necessary threshold to overturn the call). It may be a "bad" judgment call, but it's still a judgment call, and therefore, there's no way it can possibly be overturned.
In my judgment, it was a bad call. But not reviewing it and letting the outcome stand is the correct call.
-
http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nfl/lions/2015/10/06/detroit-lions-losses/73471546/
I forgot the Thanksgiving loss to the Texans. The one where Schwarz threw the challenge flag on the scoring play, thereby preventing a review and earning an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty.
-
It's actually quite simple:
When a team throws the red flag, they are not challenging an official's judgment, they are challenging the ruling on the field. So what's the difference?
On a fumble where the fumbling team claims the runner's knee was down, the ruling itself is objective - was control lost or was the knee/elbow down first... if the evidence to the contrary is indisputable, the ruling will be overturned. Sure, there could be some judgment involved in determining when control was lost, but unless the referee's judgment is also indisputable, then the call on the field is going to stand.
However, if you have a ruling on the field that cannot be determined objectively - e.g. just about every penalty (except 12 men) - all you can challenge is the official's judgement, and by definition, challenging an official's judgment essentially concedes the existence of dispute, and such being the case, the call on the field will always stand.
In this case, it's the judgment call of the official as to whether the ball was intentionally batted out or not... if there was a scramble, or if the player muffs a legitimate attempt to obtain possession, and the ball inadvertantly goes OOB, that's not a penalty. In this case, how can one objectively determine whether the ball was intentionally batted OOB? Nobody knows what was in the defender's head. Maybe he was trying to palm the ball. Maybe he was trying to bat it back to himself but had an inopportune muscle spasm at the last second. Maybe he decided at the last second not to attempt to gain possession. Who knows. We've all made up our own minds on what happened, but we've done so strictly by using our own judgment, i.e. no one has presented indisputable evidence that the player intentionally batted the ball OOB (which just so happens to be the necessary threshold to overturn the call). It may be a "bad" judgment call, but it's still a judgment call, and therefore, there's no way it can possibly be overturned.
In my judgment, it was a bad call. But not reviewing it and letting the outcome stand is the correct call.
That's all well and good, but why did the NFL come out and say it was the wrong call?
-
In this case, how can one objectively determine whether the ball was intentionally batted OOB?
I am neither a Seahawks fan nor a Lions fan nor a Seahawks hater nor a Lions hater. My favorite team isn't even in either of those teams' divisions. I have training as an official, too. So I am 100% confident that I can objectively determine whether the ball was intentionally batted OOB.
And my determination is absolutely that the batting was intentional, Seattle should have been penalized and Detroit should have kept the ball with a first down inside the 1.
NFL honchos easily determined it, too, which is why they made the rare admission that their officials blew it.
I do agree with your conclusion that there really wasn't anything that could be done once the refs blew the call, though. I even understand how the ref closest to the play, in the heat of the moment at full-speed, might not have been able to determine that the batting was intentional.
I firmly believe replay rules should be expanded to allow challenges and reviews of this kind of issue.
It's water under the bridge now, though. Can't go back and replay the game from that point.
-
That's all well and good, but why did the NFL come out and say it was the wrong call?
Because it's pretty apparent to everyone watching at home that the ball was intentionally batted out of bounds.
That doesn't change the fact that you can't review anything that's strictly a judgment call, no matter how wrong or egregious it may be. Even if it was obvious, you're opening the door to reviewing anything that's a judgment call.
-
Well this made me sad...
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/10/08/former-packers-colts-coach-lindy-infante-dies-at-75/
-
Well this made me sad...
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/10/08/former-packers-colts-coach-lindy-infante-dies-at-75/
"Infante We Trust"
-
well at least he outlived his dog
-
well at least he outlived his dog
Wasn't Devine the guy whose dog was killed?
-
Wasn't Devine the guy whose dog was killed?
Devine definitely had his dog killed, but I think Lindy had his die also.
-
What is the definition of a receiver being "in the area" when it comes to intentional grounding? There are calls every game that seem like an obvious intentional grounding where it's determined a receiver was "in the area."
-
Hell of a play by Cutler, great effort today, wow.
-
The most Cutler way to win the game, dropped snap to a touchdown.
-
2 weeks in a row, Cutler leads game winning drives. And the Cubs are tied. Gonna be a quiet Monday for Chicago meathead sports radio callers.
-
Stafford is terrible.
-
Wasn't Devine the guy whose dog was killed?
http://thewisconsinsportsbar.blogspot.com/2008/08/myth-of-dan-devines-dog.html
-
Crean sucks
-
So quiet here when the Bears win. Could be back to .500 this week, never in my wildest dreams did I think that was possible this season.
-
So quiet here when the Bears win. Could be back to .500 this week, never in my wildest dreams did I think that was possible this season.
It almost sucks a little. We all know the Bears ain't going to the playoffs, I would love the draft pick but I also love Cutler sticking his middle finger to all the haters.
-
It almost sucks a little. We all know the Bears ain't going to the playoffs, I would love the draft pick but I also love Cutler sticking his middle finger to all the haters.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
He has beat Oakland and Kansas City. Those 2 teams are a combined 3-7.
Jay has 6 TDs and 5 turnovers in 4 games this season, with a QB rating of 85.4. The guy is really sticking it to all his haters!
-
It almost sucks a little. We all know the Bears ain't going to the playoffs, I would love the draft pick but I also love Cutler sticking his middle finger to all the haters.
Seems like he's sticking his middle finger to Bears fans who would rather have a better draft position. As a Packers fan, I think it'd be great if the Bears continue to win a few squeakers against other teams that aren't going anywhere.
-
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
He has beat Oakland and Kansas City. Those 2 teams are a combined 3-7.
Jay has 6 TDs and 5 turnovers in 4 games this season, with a QB rating of 85.4. The guy is really sticking it to all his haters!
He's lead 2 game winning drives in the last 2 weeks playing behind an offensive line featuring a rookie center and injuries all over and has been throwing to a WR core missing their top 3 WRs. And he's not healthy on top of it. And an abysmal defense which doesn't give the offense a lot of leeway. But hey, that response time with corresponding emojis was impressive. You never fail to appear when the Cutler bat signal goes up.
-
He's lead 2 game winning drives in the last 2 weeks playing behind an offensive line featuring a rookie center and injuries all over and has been throwing to a WR core missing their top 3 WRs. And he's not healthy on top of it. And an abysmal defense which doesn't give the offense a lot of leeway. But hey, that response time with corresponding emojis was impressive. You never fail to appear when the Cutler bat signal goes up.
yeppers.
And yes, the Raiders and Chiefs suck. But you can only play the teams on your schedule.
-
He's lead 2 game winning drives in the last 2 weeks playing behind an offensive line featuring a rookie center and injuries all over and has been throwing to a WR core missing their top 3 WRs. And he's not healthy on top of it. And an abysmal defense which doesn't give the offense a lot of leeway. But hey, that response time with corresponding emojis was impressive. You never fail to appear when the Cutler bat signal goes up.
Lol. Let me know when Jay Cutler gets his second career Playoff win.
The Bears wouldn't have been in position to need a game winning drive if he didn't forget he was standing in the end zone and could've thrown the ball away when he was strip sacked for a defensive touchdown. But hey, Jay won the game for them against a 1-4 team baby!
I love seeing Bears fans defend him. Jay Cutler is one of the best things about the North Division for Packer fans.
-
yeppers.
And yes, the Raiders and Chiefs suck. But you can only play the teams on your schedule.
Yeppers ;D
But I would go around parading the fact that Jay Cutler is "sticking his middle finger up" to his haters. But that's hilarious that Bears fans actually think that. Go look at his stats and let me know how high that middle finger is flying.
-
Full disclosure I half wrote that comment to see if Wade was the first to respond. I wasn't disappointed.
-
Lol. Let me know when Jay Cutler gets his second career Playoff win.
The Bears wouldn't have been in position to need a game winning drive if he didn't forget he was standing in the end zone and could've thrown the ball away when he was strip sacked for a defensive touchdown. But hey, Jay won the game for them against a 1-4 team baby!
I love seeing Bears fans defend him. Jay Cutler is one of the best things about the North Division for Packer fans.
I love that Cutler and Chicago sports own so much space in your brain.
-
Full disclosure I half worth that comment to see if Wade was the first to respond. I want disappointed.
Using Cutler as bait in this thread hoping Wades will bite is about as sporting as fishing in the lobster tank at the grocery store.
-
I love that Cutler and Chicago sports own so much space in your brain.
Own so much space in my brain?
Might want to study up on how the human brain works...
-
Full disclosure I half worth that comment to see if Wade was the first to respond. I want disappointed.
Huh? Is this in English?
-
Huh? Is this in English?
Autocorrect. Fixed for your convenience.
-
Autocorrect. Fixed for your convenience.
Thank you. I can actually read it now.
-
Own so much space in my brain?
Might want to study up on how the human brain works...
You have the best player in football and an undefeated team who is one of the top 2 teams in the league and yet you spend more inches making fun of Bears fans who are happy to see their QB help them to wins in a dumpster fire of a season in which they were leading the Vegas odds for the #1 pick 3 weeks ago. Its almost as trite as you bashing those same fans when they tell you to get a grip.
-
You have the best player in football and an undefeated team who is one of the top 2 teams in the league and yet you spend more inches making fun of Bears fans who are happy to see their QB help them to wins in a dumpster fire of a season in which they were leading the Vegas odds for the #1 pick 3 weeks ago. Its almost as trite as you bashing those same fans when they tell you to get a grip.
What do you want me to say about Rodgers that hasn't been said?
If somebody came on here and said, "Aaron Rodgers isn't the best quarterback in the NFL" I'd spend "more space in my brain" on Aaron Rodgers. But people don't say that like they defend a very poor quarterback in Jay Cutler.
If you want me to spend more space in my brain on the best quarterback in the NFL and my 5-0 team I'll be happy to provide some videos of what a real quarterback looks like later on this evening.
-
He has beat Oakland and Kansas City. Those 2 teams are a combined 3-7.
The Packers' 5 wins are against teams with a combined 8-17 record. Not exactly a who's who of NFL elite.
-
The Packers' 5 wins are against teams with a combined 8-17 record. Not exactly a who's who of NFL elite.
...yet the Packers fans aren't coming on here claiming their QB is "sticking up his middle finger to his haters," parading his 6 touchdowns and 5 turnovers (of which at least 2 were defensive touchdowns) this season. That's the difference.
-
...yet the Packers fans aren't coming on here claiming their QB is "sticking up his middle finger to his haters," parading his 6 touchdowns and 5 turnovers (of which at least 2 were defensive touchdowns) this season. That's the difference.
It was more aimed towards meathead bears fans that still claim Clausen is the better option. Which we obviously know is not the case.
-
...yet the Packers fans aren't coming on here claiming their QB is "sticking up his middle finger to his haters," parading his 6 touchdowns and 5 turnovers (of which at least 2 were defensive touchdowns) this season. That's the difference.
It's all relative. The Packers are one of the favorites to win the Super Bowl and have the best QB on the planet. The Bears were one of the "favorites" to be the worst team in football with a QB that people can't wait to get rid of. I don't understand why it bothers you so much that Bears fans show some level of excitement about having a team that shows some fight and QB that's making plays in the clutch. No one's comparing Cutler to Rodgers or claiming that the Bears are a legit playoff contender.
-
...yet the Packers fans aren't coming on here claiming their QB is "sticking up his middle finger to his haters," parading his 6 touchdowns and 5 turnovers (of which at least 2 were defensive touchdowns) this season. That's the difference.
Probably because Rodgers doesn't have many, if any, haters. And he shouldn't. Best player in the league.
Who paraded those stats? I saw zero people. Did I miss a post?
Bears are likely overachieving right now, with Cutler to thank for consecutive fourth quarter comebacks. And Bears' fans come on the NFL thread to talk about it. You don't like that, why?
-
Own so much space in my brain?
Might want to study up on how the human brain works...
Colloquial language.
Trust me, I know full well how the human brain works.
-
It's all relative. The Packers are one of the favorites to win the Super Bowl and have the best QB on the planet. The Bears were one of the "favorites" to be the worst team in football with a QB that people can't wait to get rid of. I don't understand why it bothers you so much that Bears fans show some level of excitement about having a team that shows some fight and QB that's making plays in the clutch. No one's comparing Cutler to Rodgers or claiming that the Bears are a legit playoff contender.
Probably because Rodgers doesn't have many, if any, haters. And he shouldn't. Best player in the league.
Who paraded those stats? I saw zero people. Did I miss a post?
Bears are likely overachieving right now, with Cutler to thank for consecutive fourth quarter comebacks. And Bears' fans come on the NFL thread to talk about it. You don't like that, why?
I didn't respond a single time about the Bears consecutive comeback wins thanks to Jay until...
It almost sucks a little. We all know the Bears ain't going to the playoffs, I would love the draft pick but I also love Cutler sticking his middle finger to all the haters.
So, I guess maybe that's the post you missed. If Jay is "sticking his middle finger to the haters," he isn't doing a very good job of it.
By all means, get excited that Jay led you to back to back 4th quarter comebacks. That's awesome. But "baiting Wades" or not, don't be surprised when you're called out for a stupid statement like "Cutler is sticking his middle finger to all the haters." Because, well, he's not. He's further proving them correct. Good enough to win a few games, bad enough to never really win anything meaningful. The perfect spot for a division opponent.
-
I didn't respond a single time about the Bears consecutive comeback wins thanks to Jay until...
So, I guess maybe that's the post you missed. If Jay is "sticking his middle finger to the haters," he isn't doing a very good job of it.
By all means, get excited that Jay led you to back to back 4th quarter comebacks. That's awesome. But "baiting Wades" or not, don't be surprised when you're called out for a stupid statement like "Cutler is sticking his middle finger to all the haters." Because, well, he's not. He's further proving them correct. Good enough to win a few games, bad enough to never really win anything meaningful. The perfect spot for a division opponent.
How has leading 4th quarter comebacks in consecutive weeks proven that he's "good enough to win a few games, bad enough to never really win anything meaningful?"
I'm not saying that isn't true. I'm just wondering how you came to that conclusion based on the last two games, like you stated.
-
How has leading 4th quarter comebacks in consecutive weeks proven that he's "good enough to win a few games, bad enough to never really win anything meaningful?"
I'm not saying that isn't true. I'm just wondering how you came to that conclusion based on the last two games, like you stated.
Because if you watch the game you see both the good and the bad he brings. The good is he has the physical tools to make all the throws you need to make to be a good quarterback in the league. The bad is you lack the awareness to realize that you absolutely need to throw the ball away when the pressure is getting to you and you're in your own end zone. Sack? It's a safety. Strip sack? It's a defensive touchdown. You put 7 on the board for your opponent against a bad offensive team.
-
I didn't respond a single time about the Bears consecutive comeback wins thanks to Jay until...
So, I guess maybe that's the post you missed. If Jay is "sticking his middle finger to the haters," he isn't doing a very good job of it.
By all means, get excited that Jay led you to back to back 4th quarter comebacks. That's awesome. But "baiting Wades" or not, don't be surprised when you're called out for a stupid statement like "Cutler is sticking his middle finger to all the haters." Because, well, he's not. He's further proving them correct. Good enough to win a few games, bad enough to never really win anything meaningful. The perfect spot for a division opponent.
I don't even know if Rodgers could lead this team to the playoffs. The defense is god awful and you have no offensive weapons besides Forte when Alshon isn't in the lineup. Rodgers could probably get the team to .500 but that's about all.
-
I don't even know if Rodgers could lead this team to the playoffs. The defense is god awful and you have no offensive weapons besides Forte when Alshon isn't in the lineup. Rodgers could probably get the team to .500 but that's about all.
All the Bears fans keep saying, "You can't compare Rodgers to Cutler." Nobody brought up Rodgers...until a Bears fan did.
You made a comment that Jay was "sticking his middle finger up to the haters." Whether you were 100% serious, 100% "baiting Wades", or 50/50, it's wrong. I'll call it out when it's wrong. Statistically, Jay's having the 2nd worst season of his career. That simply isn't "sticking his middle finger up to his haters." I'm not talking about the Packers or their opponents' records. I'm not talking Aaron Rodgers (even if I wanted to, I'm not allowed to, according to Bears fans). I'm responding to a statement made by a Bears fan about Jay Cutler, by talking about Jay Cutler.
6 touchdowns. 5 turnovers. If that is "sticking his middle finger up to his haters" then that seriously tells you something about how bad he is.
If people want to make insane statements to get a rise out of me ("Jay Cutler is the MVP baby!") by all means, feel free. Rest assured, you will get a rise. Whether that makes me "Scoop's Skip Bayless" to Sultan's Stephen A, so be it. When I disagree with something someone says, I'll let them know.
If people don't want Cutler brought up in an MLB thread, simple, don't bring him up. If you do, don't get all upset that I responded about Jay Cutler in an MLB thread. If people don't want Cutler compared to Rodgers, simple, don't compare Cutler to Rodgers. If people do, don't get upset if I compare Cutler to Rodgers. If people want a rise out of me, simple, seek it.
-
All the Bears fans keep saying, "You can't compare Rodgers to Cutler." Nobody brought up Rodgers...until a Bears fan did.
You made a comment that Jay was "sticking his middle finger up to the haters." Whether you were 100% serious, 100% "baiting Wades", or 50/50, it's wrong. I'll call it out when it's wrong. Statistically, Jay's having the 2nd worst season of his career. That simply isn't "sticking his middle finger up to his haters." I'm not talking about the Packers or their opponents' records. I'm not talking Aaron Rodgers (even if I wanted to, I'm not allowed to, according to Bears fans). I'm responding to a statement made by a Bears fan about Jay Cutler, by talking about Jay Cutler.
6 touchdowns. 5 turnovers. If that is "sticking his middle finger up to his haters" then that seriously tells you something about how bad he is.
But you took that as haters including you, even after it was clarified that it was the meathead Chicago media that lazily scapegoat individual players for a team devoid of talent. Or people that claim he has no heart. It wasn't a statistical argument.
This is a BAD team. With an oft-maligned QB. Cutler has been widely thought of as "weak" or a "quitter". He and this team gutted out a pair of wins against teams that weren't great, no, but the Bears aren't either. Nobody is using it as evidence of anything but pride in a team and QB for not quitting. They could very well be 3-3 after a very winnable game next week. That doesn't happen with Clausen. Cutler isn't putting up HOF numbers or even great numbers for him (and nobody is saying he is), but he's gotten in done in a few key moments that lead to Ws.
Its not ridiculous for Bears fans to be happy about that without you swooping in to crap on it with stats and mockery. Basically you're saying he has to be perfect to be happy with his performance. Most QBs make mistakes in the game, not all get chances to rectify them and then come through.
-
Full disclosure I half wrote that comment to see if Wade was the first to respond. I wasn't disappointed.
I'm letting Wades do the heavy lifting today ;D (no matter how easy it is).
-
But you took that as haters including you, even after it was clarified that it was the meathead Chicago media that lazily scapegoat individual players for a team devoid of talent. Or people that claim he has no heart. It wasn't a statistical argument.
This is a BAD team. With an oft-maligned QB. Cutler has been widely thought of as "weak" or a "quitter". He and this team gutted out a pair of wins against teams that weren't great, no, but the Bears aren't either. Nobody is using it as evidence of anything but pride in a team and QB for not quitting. They could very well be 3-3 after a very winnable game next week. That doesn't happen with Clausen. Cutler isn't putting up HOF numbers or even great numbers for him (and nobody is saying he is), but he's gotten in done in a few key moments that lead to Ws.
Its not ridiculous for Bears fans to be happy about that without you swooping in to crap on it with stats and mockery. Basically you're saying he has to be perfect to be happy with his performance. Most QBs make mistakes in the game, not all get chances to rectify them and then come through.
Well said.
-
But you took that as haters including you, even after it was clarified that it was the meathead Chicago media that lazily scapegoat individual players for a team devoid of talent. Or people that claim he has no heart. It wasn't a statistical argument.
This is a BAD team. With an oft-maligned QB. Cutler has been widely thought of as "weak" or a "quitter". He and this team gutted out a pair of wins against teams that weren't great, no, but the Bears aren't either. Nobody is using it as evidence of anything but pride in a team and QB for not quitting. They could very well be 3-3 after a very winnable game next week. That doesn't happen with Clausen. Cutler isn't putting up HOF numbers or even great numbers for him (and nobody is saying he is), but he's gotten in done in a few key moments that lead to Ws.
Its not ridiculous for Bears fans to be happy about that without you swooping in to crap on it with stats and mockery. Basically you're saying he has to be perfect to be happy with his performance. Most QBs make mistakes in the game, not all get chances to rectify them and then come through.
+1
-
OMG, the Lions. Almost like they wanted OT.
-
The Lions will lose. The question is what new and creative, previously unseen way will they find to do it?
-
Thank God that's over.
-
Skol Vikings! Way 2 go bears!
-
The roughing call on McPhee at the end of regulation was horrendous. The ref who threw it didn't even see the play.
-
The roughing call on McPhee at the end of regulation was horrendous. The ref who threw it didn't even see the play.
Worse than the non-call on the holding on Calvin's catch in OT?
-
Nah, the gift touchdown for Tate was the worst.
-
Nah, the gift touchdown for Tate was the worst.
Does any player, ref, coach or executive know what a "catch" is anymore?
-
Payback for 2011?
-
As a Vikes fan I don't even care if GB wins this game or not. Just please, never let my eyes see these awful uniforms again. Are there any worse?
Pitt's throw backs are equally bad but dear god......somebody needs to be fired over this choice.
-
Nah, the gift touchdown for Tate was the worst.
I thought it was a catch, then again I thought Dez's was a catch, the game last week in Atlanta, etc.
This whole nonsense about going to the ground vs when they become a runner. It's baffling, but in my view Tate's was a catch.
-
As a Vikes fan I don't even care if GB wins this game or not. Just please, never let my eyes see these awful uniforms again. Are there any worse?
Pitt's throw backs are equally bad but dear god......somebody needs to be fired over this choice.
Couldn't agree more. Anything to make an extra buck.
-
Have to say that the 3rd uniform has grown on me. Used to hate it now I'm ok with them. I actually like the alternative theme sideline gear better than I like the traditional stuff.
-
As a Vikes fan I don't even care if GB wins this game or not. Just please, never let my eyes see these awful uniforms again. Are there any worse?
Pitt's throw backs are equally bad but dear god......somebody needs to be fired over this choice.
I actually liked GB's uniforms today. But they still suck d. SKOL VIKINGS!!!!!!!!!!!!
-
Thank God that's over.
The coaching decisions...
I understand the thought process behind 3 straight runs on the next to last possession to get the lions to burn TOs, but it's not like there was 1 minute left. The way the Lions were moving the ball through the air, it would not be difficult for them to get down the field in 2 minutes. Would like to see Gase be a little more adventurous in that spot. (Would like to echo these thoughts for OT. Bears were finding success with Wilson and Jeffrey on the outside, and then went right back to the short stuff.) And then Fox and his clock management at the very end.... baffling. The decision to allow the 10 second run off and letting 20 some seconds come off before calling a TO.
Those two stupid wins... gave a guy a glimmer of optimism.
-
The coaching decisions...
I understand the thought process behind 3 straight runs on the next to last possession to get the lions to burn TOs, but it's not like there was 1 minute left. The way the Lions were moving the ball through the air, it would not be difficult for them to get down the field in 2 minutes. Would like to see Gase be a little more adventurous in that spot. (Would like to echo these thoughts for OT. Bears were finding success with Wilson and Jeffrey on the outside, and then went right back to the short stuff.) And then Fox and his clock management at the very end.... baffling. The decision to allow the 10 second run off and letting 20 some seconds come off before calling a TO.
Those two stupid wins... gave a guy a glimmer of optimism.
I agree. At least try a safe pass on the 3rd and 4. I didn't feel like 2:15 and no timeouts was that different than 2:25 and 1 timeout in regards to whether they were going to score or not.
Even more so with this team..... the expectations are rock bottom.... just give it a shot.
-
That's what is so frustrating. Fox and Gase have done a great job with Cutler and then they take it out of his hands. They weren't even clever runs to get Forte in space either. The Lions CBs couldn't guard Jeffrey, the announcing crew called it out twice, and yet they didn't test them in OT. I don't know how you trust your D to make big stops when they hadn't been very successful to that point, especially with a top 3 WR in football lurking.
I honestly didn't get pissed about the officiating until this morning cause they still should have won through it all.
-
That's what is so frustrating. Fox and Gase have done a great job with Cutler and then they take it out of his hands. They weren't even clever runs to get Forte in space either. The Lions CBs couldn't guard Jeffrey, the announcing crew called it out twice, and yet they didn't test them in OT. I don't know how you trust your D to make big stops when they hadn't been very successful to that point, especially with a top 3 WR in football lurking.
I honestly didn't get pissed about the officiating until this morning cause they still should have won through it all.
Oh, you didn't like the straight up the middle run, behind the rookie center?
-
That's what is so frustrating. Fox and Gase have done a great job with Cutler and then they take it out of his hands. They weren't even clever runs to get Forte in space either. The Lions CBs couldn't guard Jeffrey, the announcing crew called it out twice, and yet they didn't test them in OT. I don't know how you trust your D to make big stops when they hadn't been very successful to that point, especially with a top 3 WR in football lurking.
I honestly didn't get pissed about the officiating until this morning cause they still should have won through it all.
The roughing on McPhee was pretty weak but, at the same time, that's what the league wants and though it was minor, it was unnecessary. The Tate TD call was a joke. That's another issue with replay - when they slow it down to super duper slo-mo then it looks like a catch even though he had it in his possession for only for a fraction of a second (i.e. not anywhere near long enough to be considered a catch).
As for the late game issues, part of me wonders if the Bears' coaching staff distrusted Stafford more than they trusted Cutler. Basically, they figured that both QBs can be mistake-prone so they took the ball out of Cutler's hands and bet on Stafford to err.
-
Didya all see that NFL Network interview in the Cinci locker room? Opps.
-
Didya all see that NFL Network interview in the Cinci locker room? Opps.
The concept of cameras and media in a locker room has never sat well with me. Granted, most pro locker rooms have both "public" and "private" areas, but you knew it was only a matter of time before something like this happened sparking outcry from Mrs. Lovejoy et al.
Whatever. It's nudity. So what.
-
Even better. Da Coach on MNF pre-game. Hilarious.
-
The concept of cameras and media in a locker room has never sat well with me. Granted, most pro locker rooms have both "public" and "private" areas, but you knew it was only a matter of time before something like this happened sparking outcry from Mrs. Lovejoy et al.
Whatever. It's nudity. So what.
Wilmore had a great take on this last night. "Butts and dongs everywhere".
-
The concept of cameras and media in a locker room has never sat well with me. Granted, most pro locker rooms have both "public" and "private" areas, but you knew it was only a matter of time before something like this happened sparking outcry from Mrs. Lovejoy et al.
Whatever. It's nudity. So what.
In my view it should be equal....let the male reporters in with the female athletes and vice versa.
Why the double standards and hypocrisy? If not, then neither side should allow it. We're all equal and all....supposedly.
-
In my view it should be equal....let the male reporters in with the female athletes and vice versa.
Why the double standards and hypocrisy? If not, then neither side should allow it. We're all equal and all....supposedly.
You are right. We, as white males, are so discriminated against in this world/country. Such giant obstacles for us to overcome. Victims of racism and sexism all at once, as white males.
::)
-
You are right. We, as white males, are so discriminated against in this world/country. Such giant obstacles for us to overcome. Victims of racism and sexism all at once, as white males.
::)
and we've shown such great restraint in not acting on our biological urges. our track record of showing women respect should stand up for itself!
-
You are right. We, as white males, are so discriminated against in this world/country. Such giant obstacles for us to overcome. Victims of racism and sexism all at once, as white males.
::)
Not the point. Why the two standards?
-
and we've shown such great restraint in not acting on our biological urges. our track record of showing women respect should stand up for itself!
Maybe this is just what we need, the emasculate men even more......
Again, why the two standards? Man teacher hooks up with female student...very bad. Female teacher hooks up with male student....DUDE, you scored.
So on and so forth.
-
Not the point. Why the two standards?
Because of society's interpretation of sex, nudity, etc. As well as society's views on genders. It's probably inappropriate for a woman to be in a men's locker room. It's DEFINITELY inappropriate for a man to be in a women's locker room. I'm almost sure that would be the result of polls.
We aren't equal. You know that. I know that. Sure, most people don't want to admit it, but *most* people know it's true.
-
Oh my God...seriously Chicos???
-
We aren't equal. You know that. I know that. Sure, most people don't want to admit it, but *most* people know it's true.
I agree with you - despite arguments to the contrary, men and women aren't treated equally.
But if women want to move more toward equality, breaking down artificial distinctions might be a good place to start.
-
Because of society's interpretation of sex, nudity, etc. As well as society's views on genders. It's probably inappropriate for a woman to be in a men's locker room. It's DEFINITELY inappropriate for a man to be in a women's locker room. I'm almost sure that would be the result of polls.
We aren't equal. You know that. I know that. Sure, most people don't want to admit it, but *most* people know it's true.
Then let's stop the charade
-
Then let's stop the charade
Just because of the way we've currently constructed society to create differences between genders doesn't mean we should keep it that way. Yes the genders are different but we could create a single standard if we wanted, we just haven't gotten up the gumption to do it yet.
In this case, media, regardless of gender shouldn't be in the locker rooms. That serves no purpose.
-
Just read an article - Forte is the current Bear's only draft choice who has been signed to a 2nd contract. 1 guy!
Meanwhile, the three teams that have been the best about retaining their draft picks into multiple contracts are a combined 17-0.
Continuity is way, way under-rated. Both with players and coaches.
-
For the record, I was referring to "cameras and media" not "men or women." Frankly, I don't care who sees who naked, and I don't care who sees me naked (though with respect to the latter, my condolences if you do)... my point being that I'm tired of nonsensical discussions and debates about nudity. It's nudity. Every one of us deals with it every day. Except Chicos, who -my guess is - showers in the dark.
-
Interesting read on Cutler.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2580349-why-i-drafted-jay-cutler-and-what-happened-from-there
-
Reason #48758 why Josh McDaniels is jackass with a Napoleon complex
-
Oh my God...seriously Chicos???
NFL players OVERWHELMINGLY do not want women in the locker room after the game. They want privacy.
Result. TOO BAD.
Female athletes don't want male reporters in the locker room after the game. They want privacy.
Result. OK
I'm just asking for a little consistency here. Why the double standards?
-
NFL players OVERWHELMINGLY do not want women in the locker room after the game. They want privacy.
Result. TOO BAD.
Female athletes don't want male reporters in the locker room after the game. They want privacy.
Result. OK
I'm just asking for a little consistency here. Why the double standards?
For someone who talks about how creepy it is to follow what people are doing by following their public posts on social media you sure are making a big fuss about being allowed into women's locker rooms.
-
No, actually I'm arguing the exact opposite. Why are women allowed in men's locker rooms?
This isn't hard. They don't want them in there, they want privacy....but apparently it doesn't matter. Yet when the shoe is on the other foot....
Try to catch up, I don't want men in female locker rooms, nor do I want women in male locker rooms...and neither do the male players.
-
In my view it should be equal....let the male reporters in with the female athletes and vice versa.
Why the double standards and hypocrisy? If not, then neither side should allow it. We're all equal and all....supposedly.
No, actually I'm arguing the exact opposite. Why are women allowed in men's locker rooms?
This isn't hard. They don't want them in there, they want privacy....but apparently it doesn't matter. Yet when the shoe is on the other foot....
Try to catch up, I don't want men in female locker rooms, nor do I want women in male locker rooms...and neither do the male players.
Hmm. You're right, I'm having a hard time catching up. Originally you asked to "let the male reporters in with female athletes and vice versa." Now you "don't want men in female locker rooms, nor do [you] want women in male locker rooms." You are right. Hard to keep up with you chicos.
::)
-
Hmm. You're right, I'm having a hard time catching up. Originally you asked to "let the male reporters in with female athletes and vice versa." Now you "don't want men in female locker rooms, nor do [you] want women in male locker rooms." You are right. Hard to keep up with you chicos.
::)
I'm talking about equality. Either let them both in, or none at all. My example was just that...both in and vice versa...equality. That was my point. Clearly I didn't articulate it well. Why is it that when the male athletes don't want female reporters in the locker room, it's an equal rights issue and preventing women from doing their job. But when female athletes don't want male reporters in the locker room, well of course..duh.?
It's a very simple question, why can't some of you answer it? Why the double standards? Isn't the right to privacy by the male players in question also?
-
Just read an article - Forte is the current Bear's only draft choice who has been signed to a 2nd contract. 1 guy!
Meanwhile, the three teams that have been the best about retaining their draft picks into multiple contracts are a combined 17-0.
Continuity is way, way under-rated. Both with players and coaches.
Good stuff. Even as a Packer fan my hope is that the Bears can begin a solid 'draft and develop' program here in Chicago. Not sure Chicago fans can show the patience. It doesn't happen in one cycle.
-
For the record, I was referring to "cameras and media" not "men or women." Frankly, I don't care who sees who naked, and I don't care who sees me naked (though with respect to the latter, my condolences if you do)... my point being that I'm tired of nonsensical discussions and debates about nudity. It's nudity. Every one of us deals with it every day. Except Chicos, who -my guess is - showers in the dark.
or a never nude like Tobias Fünke
(http://arresteddevelopment.wikia.com/wiki/Never_Nude?file=1x02_Never_Nude_Shower.png)
-
I'm talking about equality. Either let them both in, or none at all. My example was just that...both in and vice versa...equality. That was my point. Clearly I didn't articulate it well. Why is it that when the male athletes don't want female reporters in the locker room, it's an equal rights issue and preventing women from doing their job. But when female athletes don't want male reporters in the locker room, well of course..duh.?
It's a very simple question, why can't some of you answer it? Why the double standards? Isn't the right to privacy by the male players in question also?
Somebody really needs to ask this question?
Pathetic - but considering the source, expected.
-
I'm talking about equality. Either let them both in, or none at all. My example was just that...both in and vice versa...equality. That was my point. Clearly I didn't articulate it well. Why is it that when the male athletes don't want female reporters in the locker room, it's an equal rights issue and preventing women from doing their job. But when female athletes don't want male reporters in the locker room, well of course..duh.?
It's a very simple question, why can't some of you answer it? Why the double standards? Isn't the right to privacy by the male players in question also?
I've already answered this once.
Gender roles as determined by society. Perceived human sexuality. Implied differences in gender. Etc. Etc. Is it "right"? I don't know. But it would take literally decades to alter our culture and society enough to remove the stigmas and assignments that are inherently applied to men and women.
With your work history, I'm fairly sure you've interacted with players, coaches and obviously know some of their opinions with you making comments about players not wanting them in the locker rooms. What about the reporters? Have you any experience with them? What do they say?
-
Chicos, are you sure that men aren't allowed in female locker rooms? Because with a simple internet search, I have seen that this isn't the case. Male reporters are allowed in WNBA locker rooms for instance. The NCAA has the same access policy for men and women in the basketball tournament.
http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/2013/04/putting-to-rest-the-myth-that-womens-teams-dont-let-male-reporters-into-the-locker-room/
So again, it is probably best that you play your white, male victimization card elsewhere.
-
Because of society's interpretation of sex, nudity, etc. As well as society's views on genders. It's probably inappropriate for a woman to be in a men's locker room. It's DEFINITELY inappropriate for a man to be in a women's locker room. I'm almost sure that would be the result of polls.
We aren't equal. You know that. I know that. Sure, most people don't want to admit it, but *most* people know it's true.
So then would you support removing women from the men's locker room, especially when the players don't want them in the first place?
What do you think the response would be from feminists? Liberals? The media? Just curious?
-
Chicos, are you sure that men aren't allowed in female locker rooms? Because with a simple internet search, I have seen that this isn't the case. Male reporters are allowed in WNBA locker rooms for instance. The NCAA has the same access policy for men and women in the basketball tournament.
http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/2013/04/putting-to-rest-the-myth-that-womens-teams-dont-let-male-reporters-into-the-locker-room/
So again, it is probably best that you play your white, male victimization card elsewhere.
The WNBA has a staging area where they take questions for 20 minutes before they shower, need privacy, etc.
Not the case for male sports. Women, men, etc sit at the locker while players come in from the shower, drop the towels, get dressed while answering the questions. The players, largely, hate it.
-
That's not what the link I posted says.
"The WNBA . . . has the same rules as the NBA. Open locker rooms at designated times. In the NCAA tournament, the same rules govern both men and women’s locker rooms — they’re both open at specific times. During the regular season, NCAA institutions can make their own rules about locker room availability, but during the tournament the NCAA has a uniform policy. When Stanford played UConn in last April’s championship, if you wanted to see how devastated Jayne Appel was after her terrible shooting night, you needed to be in the locker room. I was there. So were my male colleagues."
-
So then would you support removing women from the men's locker room, especially when the players don't want them in the first place?
What do you think the response would be from feminists? Liberals? The media? Just curious?
I believe if the athletes want privacy, give it to them. Do they have a say in the matter? I don't know. Perhaps individual teams control access, perhaps leagues do. I don't know.
I don't know what responses would be. Do you care what their responses would be? I also asked you about media members because you've been around them, surely, more than I have.
-
I believe if the athletes want privacy, give it to them. Do they have a say in the matter? I don't know. Perhaps individual teams control access, perhaps leagues do. I don't know.
I don't know what responses would be. Do you care what their responses would be? I also asked you about media members because you've been around them, surely, more than I have.
They currently do not. The media claims they need this access for tight turnarounds for filing stories, of course those were days of the newspaper which are dying rapidly. The leagues mandate it right now and it is part of the collective bargaining agreement, I believe (I will need to check).
I think if you took a wild guess, or even a restrained one, we could come to an agreement what their responses would be. We also know that if male reporters asked for EQUAL access to female sports in the same manner, their answer would be 180 degrees opposite.
-
They currently do not. The media claims they need this access for tight turnarounds for filing stories, of course those were days of the newspaper which are dying rapidly. The leagues mandate it right now and it is part of the collective bargaining agreement, I believe (I will need to check).
I think if you took a wild guess, or even a restrained one, we could come to an agreement what their responses would be. We also know that if male reporters asked for EQUAL access to female sports in the same manner, their answer would be 180 degrees opposite.
On your second paragraph, you're right, ultimately. But I truly believe everyone on this board would come to the exact same conclusions. So why is this a topic to argue about?
-
On your second paragraph, you're right, ultimately. But I truly believe everyone on this board would come to the exact same conclusions. So why is this a topic to argue about?
Exactly. He is asserting a point that doesn't seem to be accurate.
Furthermore, I can't figure out why it would be a double standard if WNBA games were covered different than NBA games. As long as reporters of both sexes have the same access to each, where is the discrimination?
-
Can we spin the Chicos locker room discussion into its own thread?
Brandx, that article makes me sad as a Bears fan. Could have sworn Gould was on his 2nd deal.
-
Can we spin the Chicos locker room discussion into its own thread?
Brandx, that article makes me sad as a Bears fan. Could have sworn Gould was on his 2nd deal.
DONE! It's established and even has a few "locker room" apostles. It's called the Politics board - a vast array of topics but the same locker room point of view.
-
Brandx, that article makes me sad as a Bears fan. Could have sworn Gould was on his 2nd deal.
Same here - I even looked it up before I posted the link to the article.
He was undrafted and then cut from Patriots and Ravens before being signed in-season by the Bears. He has actually signed a couple extensions, I think, but the article was about drafted players.
-
That's not what the link I posted says.
"The WNBA . . . has the same rules as the NBA. Open locker rooms at designated times. In the NCAA tournament, the same rules govern both men and women’s locker rooms — they’re both open at specific times. During the regular season, NCAA institutions can make their own rules about locker room availability, but during the tournament the NCAA has a uniform policy. When Stanford played UConn in last April’s championship, if you wanted to see how devastated Jayne Appel was after her terrible shooting night, you needed to be in the locker room. I was there. So were my male colleagues."
Top sentence.... "during designated times"....which is what I said. They have a staging area (a set aside time and area prior to shower time).
Those designated times, people aren't walking around naked in towels like they are in the MLB, NFL, etc. TH
This should be the practice that everyone does, but that's not what all the leagues do.
That's also not true about the NBA. They can say it is the same policy, it absolutely is not enforced that way. Jason Whitlock had an article about this last year which I will find and post.
-
Top sentence.... "during designated times"....which is what I said. They have a staging area (a set aside time and area prior to shower time).
Those designated times, people aren't walking around naked in towels like they are in the MLB, NFL, etc. TH
This should be the practice that everyone does, but that's not what all the leagues do.
That's also not true about the NBA. They can say it is the same policy, it absolutely is not enforced that way. Jason Whitlock had an article about this last year which I will find and post.
So even if I believe your description of what actually occurs, male and female reporters get equal access to the locker rooms in order that they do their job.
So how is this bias or a double standard?
-
Skol Vikings. Big game today. Hope our guys are nekkid & happy for postgame interviews.
-
Skol Vikings. Big game today. Hope our guys are nekkid & happy for postgame interviews.
Got the DVR set ai'na?
-
Got the DVR set ai'na?
Nah, Deadspin provides the goods
-
Adrian Peterson got sick...because he accidentally swallowed his chewing tobacco?
Sounds like a bright guy.
-
Adrian Peterson got sick...because he accidentally swallowed his chewing tobacco?
Sounds like a bright guy.
You can say what you want about his intelligence due to the child abuse stuff, but come on. Its like swallowing your gum. The plane dropped 8-900 feet I heard. Its hilarious, but it doesn't exactly make him an idiot. Not like he's questionable with a laceration cause he was juggling knives.
-
4-2. Teddy growing up. Skol Vikings!
-
4-2. Teddy growing up. Skol Vikings!
Everyone grows up agains the Lions :D
-
I said weeks ago that the offensive line is terrible, the play calling and scheme are a joke and that they have combined to turn Matthew Stafford into Joey Harrington.
-
I mean I know Suh is gone but the Lions look absolutely terrible.
-
I mean I know Suh is gone but the Lions look absolutely terrible.
They look as they have for the last half century. Bring back Wayne Fontes!
-
You can say what you want about his intelligence due to the child abuse stuff, but come on. Its like swallowing your gum. The plane dropped 8-900 feet I heard. Its hilarious, but it doesn't exactly make him an idiot. Not like he's questionable with a laceration cause he was juggling knives.
He chews tobacco, not gum. Like I said, sounds like a bright guy.
-
Adrian Peterson got sick...because he accidentally swallowed his chewing tobacco?
Sounds like a bright guy.
Yikes, Peterson just got Schwanke-Kastened, ai na?
-
He chews tobacco, not gum. Like I said, sounds like a bright guy.
He's making his living as a professional football player not a lawyer, manager, accountant, agent, doctor, small business owner, broker, etc., etc.
It seems to me like he is probably smarter than the average American (no great bragging rights there) but not nearly as intelligent as the non professional sports star in the top 5% income.
How bright do you expect your running back to be?
-
They look as they have for the last half century. Bring back Wayne Fontes!
Matt Millen?
I didn't realize how bad the O-line was until I watched today.
-
Lions fire OC, offensive line coaches.
http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nfl/lions/2015/10/26/detroit-lions-joe-lombardi/74646998/
-
Greg Hardy and Cowboys in talks for long-term, big-money contract extension.
Over and over again in life, I'm disappointed by how talent/money-making wins out. Hardy will be paid despite his issues. Some coach who cheated somewhere will get another job (see Carroll, Pete). Some executive who was under investigation or fired will get another job.
Where are we as a society? What are we teaching/showing kids (as a society, not as individual parents)?
Awful.
-
I thought Marshall made some good points on Hardy, but yes disappointing where we are in general.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13990569/brandon-marshall-says-dallas-cowboys-de-greg-hardy-learned-lesson
-
Greg Hardy and Cowboys in talks for long-term, big-money contract extension.
Over and over again in life, I'm disappointed by how talent/money-making wins out. Hardy will be paid despite his issues. Some coach who cheated somewhere will get another job (see Carroll, Pete). Some executive who was under investigation or fired will get another job.
Where are we as a society? What are we teaching/showing kids (as a society, not as individual parents)?
Awful.
As a Cowboys fan for 40+ years, it amazes me how awful Jerry Jones is. I was so disgusted when they signed this POS and watching some other Cowboys fans defend this POS is saddening. Then again, I saw the same behaviors toward some Packers when I lived there, certainly Lakers out here....JUST WIN BABY
-
I thought Marshall made some good points on Hardy, but yes disappointing where we are in general.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13990569/brandon-marshall-says-dallas-cowboys-de-greg-hardy-learned-lesson
Things got a little off-kilter towards the end of his time with the Bears, but I will always respect Marshall for his candor and honesty when it comes to these kind of issues. He's not perfect, but he's someone who has learned from a lot of his mistakes and will be a great commentator/advocate when he hangs it up.
-
Things got a little off-kilter towards the end of his time with the Bears, but I will always respect Marshall for his candor and honesty when it comes to these kind of issues. He's not perfect, but he's someone who has learned from a lot of his mistakes and will be a great commentator/advocate when he hangs it up.
Hey at least they didn't have to call the cops to get him out of the building.
-
Things got a little off-kilter towards the end of his time with the Bears, but I will always respect Marshall for his candor and honesty when it comes to these kind of issues. He's not perfect, but he's someone who has learned from a lot of his mistakes and will be a great commentator/advocate when he hangs it up.
I'm sorry, how has he changed or learned from his mistakes?
-
I'm sorry, how has he changed or learned from his mistakes?
Gonna agree with Navin on this one. He's already starting stuff up with the Jets.
-
I'm sorry, how has he changed or learned from his mistakes?
I'm speaking to the off the field portion. He had a myriad of legal troubles and outbursts before his diagnosis. He's a fiery personality on the field, and a diva, as most good WRs tend to be. I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about how he turned his life around off the field and how he's been an outspoken personality in regards to that since and his comments around Hardy were around the totality of character.
-
SKOL VIKINGS, GO BRONCOS!
-
To call the Lions a dumpster fire is an insult to dumpster fires.
-
I was surprised by the Pack game last night. Denver's defense is good, but more surprised at the ease at which Denver moved the ball on Green Bay. Denver's offense has been largely awful this year.
-
Packer's offense hasn't been good but has just been getting by. There is no stretching of the field, and I don't know if that's because Jordy Nelson was just *that* good, or if its because of Tom Clements is now calling the plays. (I had always thought that McCarthy was a better play caller than he was given credit for.) Also they need an upgrade at TE.
And James Jones is showing why he was the third WR on this team and why two teams cut him in the last couple of years. Largely been a non-entity the last few weeks.
-
The majority of NFL product right now stinks...from officiating to game play. This Colts/Panthers game has been hot garbage.
-
Packer's offense hasn't been good but has just been getting by. There is no stretching of the field, and I don't know if that's because Jordy Nelson was just *that* good, or if its because of Tom Clements is now calling the plays. (I had always thought that McCarthy was a better play caller than he was given credit for.) Also they need an upgrade at TE.
And James Jones is showing why he was the third WR on this team and why two teams cut him in the last couple of years. Largely been a non-entity the last few weeks.
It is all Clement's fault. He's an effin domer. Droolin' moron.
-
The majority of NFL product right now stinks...from officiating to game play. This Colts/Panthers game has been hot garbage.
I don't disagree, but it was absolutely pouring most of the game.
-
The majority of NFL product right now stinks...from officiating to game play. This Colts/Panthers game has been hot garbage.
College football is much more watchable.
-
The last 2 Bears games have been incredibly frustrating to watch. They could easily be 4-3 (admittedly, they could also easily be 0-7).
Every time I watch the Bears, I obviously want them to win but, big picture, this team lacks NFL caliber talent. If losing a few heartbreakers this season will put them in position to get the talent needed to win nip-and-tuck games over the next few seasons, it's 100% worth it. Going 7-9 instead of 5-11 could mean the difference between picking #5 overall and picking #12. This team may go 5-11 just like last year's team, but this team isn't an embarrassment. Fox, Gase and Fangio can coach. Hopefully Pace can draft.
-
The last 2 Bears games have been incredibly frustrating to watch. They could easily be 4-3 (admittedly, they could also easily be 0-7).
Every time I watch the Bears, I obviously want them to win but, big picture, this team lacks NFL caliber talent. If losing a few heartbreakers this season will put them in position to get the talent needed to win nip-and-tuck games over the next few seasons, it's 100% worth it. Going 7-9 instead of 5-11 could mean the difference between picking #5 overall and picking #12. This team may go 5-11 just like last year's team, but this team isn't an embarrassment. Fox, Gase and Fangio can coach. Hopefully Pace can draft.
Completely agree. The fact that I get frustrated with these losses and think "we're really close" given the talent on the roster and my expectations at the beginning of the season, speaks for the staff.
And no this isn't happiness with mediocrity or shifted success metrics, its finding small positives in what was supposed to be an ugly season, that's still very frustrating.
Oh, and Ken Whisenhunt just got axed. Bit premature but they were bad.
-
Completely agree. The fact that I get frustrated with these losses and think "we're really close" given the talent on the roster and my expectations at the beginning of the season, speaks for the staff.
And no this isn't happiness with mediocrity or shifted success metrics, its finding small positives in what was supposed to be an ugly season, that's still very frustrating.
Oh, and Ken Whisenhunt just got axed. Bit premature but they were bad.
Under Whisenhunt, the Titans were 2-0 in season openers. 1-20 otherwise.
He was a poor hire in the first place. His tenure in Arizona ended badly, and while he is probably a good offensive coordinator, there are a bunch of good coordinators that make bad head coaches. (Wade Phillips anybody?)
This is exactly one of the reasons I think the NFL product is bad. Just retread the same damn coaches over and over. Both the NBA and MLB have done a great job with getting younger guys who think outside the box a little as head coaches. (Washington hiring Dusty Baker regardless...) The Titans will undoubtedly make a very safe hire this off-season.
-
This is exactly one of the reasons I think the NFL product is bad. Just retread the same damn coaches over and over. Both the NBA and MLB have done a great job with getting younger guys who think outside the box a little as head coaches. (Washington hiring Dusty Baker regardless...) The Titans will undoubtedly make a very safe hire this off-season.
Unlike MLB and NBA, there are seemingly no young analytical minds coming up in the NFL. From the top down, the league still relies on film sessions, game-planning and old school scouting. Execs feel more comfortable with experienced, grizzled football guys than they do with young up-and-comers. When GMs do hire young head coaches, they end up hiring Lane Kiffin and Josh McDaniels who were both disasters. Honestly, if a mid-30s coach turned a team around and won a SB or at least made some noise consistently, it would likely open the door for others. I know that Tomlin won a SB at age 36 but he took over a contender...not to mention, the Kiffin and McDaniels hires were in the same general time period, which set things back.
IMO, a lot of NFL coaches overcoach/over-gameplan. They try so hard to exploit the opponent's weaknesses and contain the opponent's strengths that they "forget" to play to their own team's strengths. That can lead to some ugly football.
-
The last 2 Bears games have been incredibly frustrating to watch. They could easily be 4-3 (admittedly, they could also easily be 0-7).
Every time I watch the Bears, I obviously want them to win but, big picture, this team lacks NFL caliber talent. If losing a few heartbreakers this season will put them in position to get the talent needed to win nip-and-tuck games over the next few seasons, it's 100% worth it. Going 7-9 instead of 5-11 could mean the difference between picking #5 overall and picking #12. This team may go 5-11 just like last year's team, but this team isn't an embarrassment. Fox, Gase and Fangio can coach. Hopefully Pace can draft.
I hope so too. This year's team is at least not an embarrassment. Many of the games last year were nearly impossible to watch, and the talent is roughly the same as it is now. Bluer skies ahead I think.
-
Unlike MLB and NBA, there are seemingly no young analytical minds coming up in the NFL. From the top down, the league still relies on film sessions, game-planning and old school scouting. Execs feel more comfortable with experienced, grizzled football guys than they do with young up-and-comers. When GMs do hire young head coaches, they end up hiring Lane Kiffin and Josh McDaniels who were both disasters. Honestly, if a mid-30s coach turned a team around and won a SB or at least made some noise consistently, it would likely open the door for others. I know that Tomlin won a SB at age 36 but he took over a contender...not to mention, the Kiffin and McDaniels hires were in the same general time period, which set things back.
IMO, a lot of NFL coaches overcoach/over-gameplan. They try so hard to exploit the opponent's weaknesses and contain the opponent's strengths that they "forget" to play to their own team's strengths. That can lead to some ugly football.
Analytics has no place in an environment that encourages competitors to bash their heads against each other.
-
Colts fire offensive coord, Pep Hamilton. (Former Bears QB coach under Lovie Smith - failing up must be nice).
I have never understood mid-season firings of coordinators. Unless the coordinator outright disobeyed the coach, or the players hated him, I don't know why the move is made. Either the same scheme/system will remain in place (in which case, why is the firing necessary?) or they will install a new system/scheme (which will likely not work well for several weeks, so the results won't change).
Thoughts, anyone?
-
Colts fire offensive coord, Pep Hamilton. (Former Bears QB coach under Lovie Smith - failing up must be nice).
I have never understood mid-season firings of coordinators. Unless the coordinator outright disobeyed the coach, or the players hated him, I don't know why the move is made. Either the same scheme/system will remain in place (in which case, why is the firing necessary?) or they will install a new system/scheme (which will likely not work well for several weeks, so the results won't change).
Thoughts, anyone?
Well play calling could change.
-
Well play calling could change.
Perhaps I don't understand enough about NFL coaching then. If the scheme/system stays the same, couldn't Pagano direct Pep to alter play calling? Now, if Pep says no, then firing makes sense. Otherwise, Pagano is going to direct the interim OC in how to call the plays, or take over playcalling himself. Both seem like things he could do without a firing.
-
No matter what happens they aren't going to change the scheme. But play calling is about feel. What to call in certain situations given how a defense has reacted previously. You can't can't order an OC to alter this.
Regardless, this is probably more about Pagano making changes to save himself more than anything.
-
There's a whole bunch of political intrigue going on in Indy. Irsay siding with Pagano over Grigson, or so this would seem. New O coordinator is someone Pagano wanted.
-
Analytics has no place in an environment that encourages competitors to bash their heads against each other.
I think teams punt way too much. The statistics say teams don't go for it on fourth down nearly as often as they should and teams would improve their odds of winning by going for it in most cases. In the modern game, possession of the ball is more important than the 40 yards of field position you get by punting. I'd love to see an analytics-driven coach test this theory out. People could still bash heads against each other without punting so much.
-
I think teams punt way too much. The statistics say teams don't go for it on fourth down nearly as often as they should and teams would improve their odds of winning by going for it in most cases. In the modern game, possession of the ball is more important than the 40 yards of field position you get by punting. I'd love to see an analytics-driven coach test this theory out. People could still bash heads against each other without punting so much.
Problem is, if you're the first, you're going to be second-guessed and skewered if it doesn't work. Putting your job on the line more than necessary. That's why it doesn't happen.
-
Problem is, if you're the first, you're going to be second-guessed and skewered if it doesn't work. Putting your job on the line more than necessary. That's why it doesn't happen.
I know. You'd need an owner who is very progressive and understanding (or comatose and uncaring) or a coach who has built up enough good will that he could survive it backfiring a few times (like Belichek or something).
-
There's a whole bunch of political intrigue going on in Indy. Irsay siding with Pagano over Grigson, or so this would seem. New O coordinator is someone Pagano wanted.
Exactly, this screams Pagano and Grigson trying to save their respective jobs. And Pagano has wanted Chudzinski in the role since he hired him as AHC.
-
I know. You'd need an owner who is very progressive and understanding (or comatose and uncaring) or a coach who has built up enough good will that he could survive it backfiring a few times (like Belichek or something).
Tomlin is going for two a lot more now. I follow Andy Glockner on Twitter and he will usually tweet something when a team goes against analytics. I think going for two every time may be the right statistical play depending on your offense.
-
Tomlin is going for two a lot more now. I follow Andy Glockner on Twitter and he will usually tweet something when a team goes against analytics. ubtjink going for two every time may be the right statistical play depending on your offense.
I might have to re-follow Glockner. He was insufferable during the NLCS so I stopped, but I usually like him during CBB.
-
I might have to re-follow Glockner. He was insufferable during the NLCS so I stopped, but I usually like him during CBB.
Did the same.
-
http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nfl/lions/2015/11/05/detroit-lions-martin-mayhew-lewand/75216768/
Lions fire GM and President. After firing a bunch of assistants. Caldwell will be gone at the end of the year. It is the first time I can remember the Ford family getting aggressive and impatient with getting rid of the administrators. Throwing the bums out is a good idea. The bad news is that it will be yet another total rebuild.
-
Roger, Jerry, Greg and the NFL looking real good again today.
BTW , if more happens to Hardy based on the pics - what is wrong with our society that we need visuals to do what should have been done in the first place??
-
Roger, Jerry, Greg and the NFL looking real good again today.
BTW , if more happens to Hardy based on the pics - what is wrong with our society that we need visuals to do what should have been done in the first place??
Those pics were disturbing.
We live in a cynical, "see-it-to-believe-it" society. When it comes to stars/celebrities, as long as there's no video or photographic evidence, many fans can put their heads in the sand and act like it didn't happen or that it was deserved or victim-blame because they simply don't want to believe it. Even in the Ray Rice situation, you'd hear people imply that since she spit on him, it was somewhat justifiable that he hit her...then you actually see her spit on him and see his response and realize that it was in absolutely no way justifiable.
-
Roger, Jerry, Greg and the NFL looking real good again today.
BTW , if more happens to Hardy based on the pics - what is wrong with our society that we need visuals to do what should have been done in the first place??
Shouldn't the NFLPA get the brunt of the blame for this? It was originally a 10 game suspension until after the appeal. Not that I think 10 games is enough but the NFLPA, working off the same info/evidence, fought to reduce it to a mere 4.
Totally agree with your societal question.
-
Shouldn't the NFLPA get the brunt of the blame for this? It was originally a 10 game suspension until after the appeal. Not that I think 10 games is enough but the NFLPA, working off the same info/evidence, fought to reduce it to a mere 4.
Totally agree with your societal question.
Agree with all of the above, and 4 games seems too little, but why is his employer (the NFL) the one who has to hand him his harshest punishment? Don't you think in an ideal world he'd be more worried about the justice system than his employer?
-
Roger, Jerry, Greg and the NFL looking real good again today.
BTW , if more happens to Hardy based on the pics - what is wrong with our society that we need visuals to do what should have been done in the first place??
http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/11/06/greg-hardy-photos-nicole-holder-cowboys-nfl (http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/11/06/greg-hardy-photos-nicole-holder-cowboys-nfl)
Mr. Rosenberg i presume? I didn't read the whole article but just enough to see how passionate he is on your society point. good editorial
edit: if i had bothered to scroll a half page i would've seen it's a short column. still spot on. the comment section is an amazing display of ignorance.
-
Shouldn't the NFLPA get the brunt of the blame for this? It was originally a 10 game suspension until after the appeal. Not that I think 10 games is enough but the NFLPA, working off the same info/evidence, fought to reduce it to a mere 4.
Totally agree with your societal question.
Why should the NFLPA roll over and assume a punishment handed out is justified and not appeal? The NFLPA doesn't have an image issue or really care about the "right thing", they should be all about maximizing their clients profitability.
The NFL suspended him for 10 games(too light), the NFLPA appealed and the NFL said, yeah we were too harsh on the dude who nearly beat a woman to death that he outweighed by 150 pounds, and cut it to 4 games. Why would the NFL even cut the suspension on the appeal? The suspended Josh Gordon for far longer for pot use than they have Hardy, a documented abuser of women in particular and humans in general. Yeah, definitely the NFLPA's fault.
-
Why should the NFLPA roll over and assume a punishment handed out is justified and not appeal? The NFLPA doesn't have an image issue or really care about the "right thing", they should be all about maximizing their clients profitability.
The NFL suspended him for 10 games(too light), the NFLPA appealed and the NFL said, yeah we were too harsh on the dude who nearly beat a woman to death that he outweighed by 150 pounds, and cut it to 4 games. Why would the NFL even cut the suspension on the appeal? The suspended Josh Gordon for far longer for pot use than they have Hardy, a documented abuser of women in particular and humans in general. Yeah, definitely the NFLPA's fault.
You Sir......are correct. I assumed that the appeal/arbitration was within the judicial system and not conducted by a league appointee, Mr. Harold Henderson.
Everyone in this case is equally horrible.
-
Wide receivers are just not talented enough.
Cobb can't be the guy. Adams is trying. 12 can't turn water into wine.
-
Flipped to the Packer game for one play and watched #12 get sacked on a play where it looked like the o-line was borrowing blocking schemes from the Lions.
-
The Packers special teams have been the best unit on this team for the past 3 or 4 weeks. And it's not like they're doing very well either.
-
12 is a hell of a quarterback but I don't think he could motivate me to make a sandwich. He's getting thrown around and comes off the field looking like doesn't care, there is a time to lay into your guys a bit and try to light a fire in them and he doesn't seem to do that. Great quarterback but has a long way to go start acting like a leader.
-
12 is a hell of a quarterback but I don't think he could motivate me to make a sandwich. He's getting thrown around and comes off the field looking like doesn't care, there is a time to lay into your guys a bit and try to light a fire in them and he doesn't seem to do that. Great quarterback but has a long way to go start acting like a leader.
This is a parody, right?
-
This is a parody, right?
You think the lame ass smirk he has on his face coming off the field after getting sacked on 3rd and long multiple times then sulking by himself with that tablet is inspiring his teamates?
He plays like a leader but he has to act like one
-
You think the lame ass smirk he has on his face coming off the field after getting sacked on 3rd and long multiple times then sulking by himself with that tablet is inspiring his teamates?
He plays like a leader but he has to act like one
Thanks, I know it's a parody now.
-
Wide receivers are just not talented enough.
Cobb can't be the guy. Adams is trying. 12 can't turn water into wine.
More than the WRs, the defense has been abused the last three weeks.
-
Thanks, I know it's a parody now.
What leadership qualities did he have on display today?
-
What leadership qualities did he have on display today?
25/48, 4 TDs while getting tossed around like a rag doll.
Really the idea that Aaron Rodgers isn't a leader because he doesn't "light a fire under his teammates" and yell at them, and (in your eyes) "looks like he doesn't care."
That is a stupid sports thought. Rodgers has turned himself into one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL because he cares...a lot.
-
25/48, 4 TDs while getting tossed around like a rag doll.
Really the idea that Aaron Rodgers isn't a leader because he doesn't "light a fire under his teammates" and yell at them, and (in your eyes) "looks like he doesn't care."
That is a stupid sports thought. Rodgers has turned himself into one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL because he cares...a lot.
[/quote I said he was a hell of a quarterback and his stats back that up. But leaders inspire their team to play well, which he didn't. ]
-
25/48, 4 TDs while getting tossed around like a rag doll.
Really the idea that Aaron Rodgers isn't a leader because he doesn't "light a fire under his teammates" and yell at them, and (in your eyes) "looks like he doesn't care."
That is a stupid sports thought. Rodgers has turned himself into one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL because he cares...a lot.
Cutler on line 1...
-
I said he was a hell of a quarterback and his stats back that up. But leaders inspire their team to play well, which he didn't.
So whenever the team doesn't play well it's because Aaron Rodgers didn't "inspire" them enough?
Not to mention that I thought that he had the offense playing pretty damn well toward the end of the game.
-
Cutler on line 1...
+1000000 not saying Rodgers isn't a leader but let's not be hypocrites about it.
-
So whenever the team doesn't play well it's because Aaron Rodgers didn't "inspire" them enough?
Not to mention that I thought that he had the offense playing pretty damn well toward the end of the game.
No that isn't always the case, sometimes you get beat by the better team. The thing is I don't think the Panthers are better, and the pack proved that in the fourth quarter. But after they got whooped on in the first half and everyone's looking at each other like what just happened someone has to inspire them. And if you're the highest paid player in the league I feel like that falls on you.
-
Cutler on line 1...
Wonder if he'll injure his wrist if we make him hold long enough....
-
No that isn't always the case, sometimes you get beat by the better team. The thing is I don't think the Panthers are better, and the pack proved that in the fourth quarter. But after they got whooped on in the first half and everyone's looking at each other like what just happened someone has to inspire them. And if you're the highest paid player in the league I feel like that falls on you.
So the big 4th quarter comeback was because the Packers were simply a better team? How do you know that they weren't reacting to Rodgers' inspirational leadership? And the way you be a leader is to yell at your teammates?
-
So the big 4th quarter comeback was because the Packers were simply a better team? How do you know that they weren't reacting to Rodgers' inspirational leadership? And the way you be a leader is to yell at your teammates?
Yeah sometimes you do need to lay into them, not all the time like you keep trying to make it seem, but sometimes you do. Leaders find different ways of inspiring their team and that's one of them. Where was this inspirational leadership in the first 3 quarters when he would walk off the field after 3 and outs with that blank look on his face? If he had inspired them in the beginning they wouldn't have had to scramble to make that miraculous near comeback because of his "inspirational leadership".
-
THE CONSENSUS rolls into first place! SKOL VIKINGS!
Let's hope Teddy is OK.
-
Yeah sometimes you do need to lay into them, not all the time like you keep trying to make it seem, but sometimes you do. Leaders find different ways of inspiring their team and that's one of them. Where was this inspirational leadership in the first 3 quarters when he would walk off the field after 3 and outs with that blank look on his face? If he had inspired them in the beginning they wouldn't have had to scramble to make that miraculous near comeback because of his "inspirational leadership".
This is really dumb.
The idea that the only way to be a leader is to engage in Knute Rockne stereotypes is hilarious.
-
This is really dumb.
Yeah good point you proved me wrong there. You've shown time and time again on this board you are to hard headed too ever change your mind so I'll let you keep thinking you are right.
-
Yeah good point you proved me wrong there. You've shown time and time again on this board you are to hard headed too ever change your mind so I'll let you keep thinking you are right.
I'm changed my mind plenty of times. But the idea presented has to be well thought out and have some evidence to back it up. Yours provides neither.
-
I'm changed my mind plenty of times. But the idea presented has to be well thought out and have some evidence to back it up. Yours provides neither.
And your thoughts on him being a leader provide none as well.
-
And your thoughts on him being a leader provide none as well.
Except for the fact that he has lead his team to four straight division titles and a Super Bowl Championship (where he was MVP), while quarterbacking one of the most explosive offenses in the NFL.
-
Except for the fact that he has lead his team to four straight division titles and a Super Bowl Championship (where he was MVP), while quarterbacking one of the most explosive offenses in the NFL.
I've never denied he was a good quarterback, he's one of the best in the league and those things back it up. But leaders inspire their team to play well when things aren't going well. Which he didn't.
-
I've never denied he was a good quarterback, he's one of the best in the league and those things back it up. But leaders inspire their team to play well when things aren't going well. Which he didn't.
So your argument is when the team isn't playing well it is Rodgers lack of leadership at fault and his talent doesn't matter but all the times they did win is because of his talent and his leadership doesn't matter? This logic is clearly infallible.
(http://cdn.niketalk.com/9/9c/200x200px-ZC-9c27b522_b4d80404f6ef023f2ce4e92701ac75b2-best-of-side-eyeing-chloe-meme.jpeg)
-
So your argument is when the team isn't playing well it is Rodgers lack of leadership at fault and his talent doesn't matter but all the times they did win is because of his talent and his leadership doesn't matter? This logic is clearly infallible.
(http://cdn.niketalk.com/9/9c/200x200px-ZC-9c27b522_b4d80404f6ef023f2ce4e92701ac75b2-best-of-side-eyeing-chloe-meme.jpeg)
No his talent makes up for his lack of leadership in my opinion. But a leader is someone that can bring there team back when they are down and fire them up when things aren't looking good. And I did not see any of that until the 4th quarter rolled around. Look I think he is a damn good quarterback but just not a very inspiring guy, I think if he became a more inspiring leader he would end up as one of the best of all time.
-
No that isn't always the case, sometimes you get beat by the better team. The thing is I don't think the Panthers are better, and the pack proved that in the fourth quarter.
So, when the Panthers were taking a big lead, that didn't count toward them being the better team? The first 3 1/2 quarters don't count in NFL games?
The Panthers are 8-0 and have overcome considerable adversity this season ... but the Packers "proved" they were the better team by outscoring the Panthers in the fourth quarter and still losing?
Huh?
-
So, when the Panthers were taking a big lead, that didn't count toward them being the better team? The first 3 1/2 quarters don't count in NFL games?
The Panthers are 8-0 and have overcome considerable adversity this season ... but the Packers "proved" they were the better team by outscoring the Panthers in the fourth quarter and still losing?
Huh?
I think the Packers are a better team? I don't get what's hard to understand about that. They didn't play up to their potential for most of the game but when they did in the 4th quarter you saw what happened. If they had played that well all game I believe the Packers would have won.
-
It's even better. The 4th quarter doesn't show that Rodgers is "inspiring" or "a leader." But the first three quarters show that he lacks these qualities. Bizarre.
-
Every time you use 'fire' your perceived IQ drops by 5 points.
Worst, well documented sports cliche ever.
No one has ever 'fired' a professional team up with 'passion' through a speech or other motivational tactics. It's all bullcrap, if you believe otherwise, you're likely a Neanderthal.
-
THE CONSENSUS rolls into first place! SKOL VIKINGS!
Let's hope Teddy is OK.
Are you alive?
-
I super love when a poster is universally panned yet continues to support their position. Great entertainment especially when the position is that the only leadership quality i can recognize is the one i see on TV (btw - life long Vikes fan and proud that we can say 1st place!). I hate Rogers and all he is but his record stands for himself.
My favorite non 'in your face' QB leader story is the winning drive of the 49ers over the Bengals in Super Bowl whatever. San Fran gets the ball, Montana huddles up, and says "hey, did you see John Candy on the sideline?" everyone relaxes and they win. Now that wasn't shown on TV so i'm sure it was just the talent around him.
-
Every time you use 'fire' your perceived IQ drops by 5 points.
Worst, well documented sports cliche ever.
No one has ever 'fired' a professional team up with 'passion' through a speech or other motivational tactics. It's all bullcrap, if you believe otherwise, you're likely a Neanderthal.
You must never have heard Chuck speak.
http://www.packers.com/media-center/videos/Woodsons-NFC-Championship-Speech-at-Bears/1b68dc25-edd8-4769-bf2f-f4c79e31502e
By the way, the guy is leading the NFL in interceptions at 39 years old. Absurd.
-
You must never have heard Chuck speak.
http://www.packers.com/media-center/videos/Woodsons-NFC-Championship-Speech-at-Bears/1b68dc25-edd8-4769-bf2f-f4c79e31502e
By the way, the guy is leading the NFL in interceptions at 39 years old. Absurd.
Do you think that made the players transcend their talent to overcome any odds?
Noooooooope
-
Do you think that made the players transcend their talent to overcome any odds?
Noooooooope
My comment was tongue in cheek. That speech still kicks ass though.
-
My comment was tongue in cheek. That speech still kicks ass though.
Gotcha, I agree with the speech though.
-
I think the Packers are a better team? I don't get what's hard to understand about that. They didn't play up to their potential for most of the game but when they did in the 4th quarter you saw what happened. If they had played that well all game I believe the Packers would have won.
You said the fourth quarter "proved" they were better. That's your opinion, and a dopey one.
The final score PROVED the Panthers were the better team. The final score is a fact.
Maybe the Packers couldn't prove they were the better team in the fourth quarter because the Panthers threw Rodgers around like he was a rag doll and repeatedly burned the Pack defense in the first 3+ quarters.
You know, back in the 1990s, the Bulls whipped the Knicks in the playoffs year after year after year. And after every series loss, Patrick Ewing would tell reporters that he didn't care what the results said because he knew the Knicks were the better team.
-
This is a parody, right?
username just needs to be JSComments. (One of my favorite Twitter follows.)
-
I think the Packers are a better team? I don't get what's hard to understand about that. They didn't play up to their potential for most of the game but when they did in the 4th quarter you saw what happened. If they had played that well all game I believe the Packers would have won.
You seem to be overlooking the fact that if the Rodgers' "incompletion" was called correctly on the field, it's a 44-14 game, or if replay had righted the real-time wrong, Carolina would have taken over at about the GB 20. Instead, the Packers went down and made it a one possession game. Also, the "interception" (which was a terrible play call by Carolina) being upheld gave GB great field position instead of giving Carolina 2nd and 10 with under 4 to play. In other words, it took some poor officiating to even keep GB in the game.
-
Every time you use 'fire' your perceived IQ drops by 5 points.
Worst, well documented sports cliche ever.
No one has ever 'fired' a professional team up with 'passion' through a speech or other motivational tactics. It's all bullcrap, if you believe otherwise, you're likely a Neanderthal.
Hey, it kept Tebow in the league for a few years...
-
You seem to be overlooking the fact that if the Rodgers' "incompletion" was called correctly on the field, it's a 44-14 game, or if replay had righted the real-time wrong, Carolina would have taken over at about the GB 20. Instead, the Packers went down and made it a one possession game. Also, the "interception" (which was a terrible play call by Carolina) being upheld gave GB great field position instead of giving Carolina 2nd and 10 with under 4 to play. In other words, it took some poor officiating to even keep GB in the game.
Hey let's play the game where we nit pick calls that are arguably incorrect but not definitively so and ignore other such calls that went against GB that were arguably incorrect as well(like no calls on PI/holding of Adams, etc). That's always a fun game where every one wins!
(http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view7/2594137/the-shining-o.gif)
-
Hey let's play the game where we nit pick calls that are arguably incorrect but not definitively so and ignore other such calls that went against GB that were arguably incorrect as well(like no calls on PI/holding of Adams, etc). That's always a fun game where every one wins!
(http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view7/2594137/the-shining-o.gif)
Pass interference is the worst-officiated call in the league, which is a shame because it often is the biggest game-changer due to the yardage involved.
On Funchess' long catch, the Packers' DB was draped all over him long before the ball got there, pinning Funchess' arms to his sides. Given the blatant interference, it was a near-miraculous catch, and Aikman was amazed he made it. Later on, when the Panthers were desperately trying to hold off the Packers' rally, the same DB did the same thing to Funchess on a crossing route -- except it was even more egregious. This time, his arms completely pinned at his side by the DB, Funchess couldn't quite make the catch and the Panthers had to punt.
Both calls should have been obvious. As a Panthers fan, I'm proud of my lads for overcoming such awful officiating. That the Packers couldn't overcome a couple of similar non-calls goes in the "oh well" file.
What's more tragicomic -- not in this game, but generally -- is some of the interference calls the refs make, where the DB barely breathes on the receiver. They let a mugging go but call the ticky-tack crap.
And none of them are subject to replay.
I am not a conspiracy theorist and have never suggested an NFL game has been fixed. But if I were trying to fix a game, I'd pay off a back judge to make a couple of well-timed interference calls (or to ignore a couple of obvious interference calls). It's such a judgment call, the league office never seems to question it.
-
Wide receivers are just not talented enough.
Cobb can't be the guy. Adams is trying. 12 can't turn water into wine.
The Panthers are 8-0 (and just put up 37 on the Packers) despite this receiving corps:
Ted Ginn Jr ... Philly Brown ... Jericho Cotchery ... Devin Funchess.
Any of the Packers' top 3 receivers would be the Panthers' No. 1 receiver. I'm still pissed the Panthers didn't try for Jones when he was available.
Like Jordy Nelson, the Panthers' No. 1 receiver (Kelvin Benjamin) will not have played a single down this season due to injury.
The Panthers do have an elite TE, though. Thank goodness.
-
Hey let's play the game where we nit pick calls that are arguably incorrect but not definitively so and ignore other such calls that went against GB that were arguably incorrect as well(like no calls on PI/holding of Adams, etc). That's always a fun game where every one wins!
(http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view7/2594137/the-shining-o.gif)
They were definitive to everyone who wasn't rooting for the Packers.
My point was that the Packers were fortunate to even be in position to tie the game so it's even harder to claim that they were the better team because of their comeback.
-
The Panthers do have an elite TE, though. Thank goodness.
Thank god the Bears got rid of him. He's so marginal that he only fits into a few select schemes... ::)
-
Thank god the Bears got rid of him. He's so marginal that he only fits into a few select schemes... ::)
Olsen is the gift that keeps on giving. Thanks, Bears!
My wife, son and I went to the Bears-Panthers game last season here in Charlotte. Bears took a big lead but the Panthers rallied to win thanks in great part to 2 TD catches by Olsen (as well as a fumble by Forte and an INT by Cutler).
Some 20-30% of the fans were Bears fans - no surprise there; they travel well. The guy sitting right in front of us was wearing his Bears Olsen jersey.
I thought it was hilarious that a Bears showed up in Charlotte wearing a jersey that basically said, "You're welcome!"
Anyway, it was great fun trash-talking with him and the many other Bears fans around us.
My son, who still lives in Chicago and is a huge Bears fan (also Bulls, Hawks and Cubbies), lost the bet so he had to wear my Panthers jersey the whole next day! Sure am glad I didn't have to wear his Bears shirt!!!
-
Thank god the Bears got rid of him. He's so marginal that he only fits into a few select schemes... ::)
Tight end really is pretty far down on the list of the Bears' issues.
-
Tight end really is pretty far down on the list of the Bears' issues.
Yes, but the point is he is a top tier TE, who was a top tier TE with the Bears too, who was traded away simply because of an OC's stubborn preferred scheme. Martz was dismissive of him when he was the best receiver the Bears had at the time. The only reason his production didn't fall off even more that season was his relationship with Cutler.
The personnel decisions made in this time period are part of the reason the Bears are a mess right now. I think the 3rd rounder ended up being part of the Brandon Marshall trade. So you can reason that how you like, but trading away stars for dumb reasons is never a great plan. He was, and still is, in his prime and its not like he had a bloated contract. It was stupid.
-
Yes, but the point is he is a top tier TE, who was a top tier TE with the Bears too, who was traded away simply because of an OC's stubborn preferred scheme. Martz was dismissive of him when he was the best receiver the Bears had at the time. The only reason his production didn't fall off even more that season was his relationship with Cutler.
The personnel decisions made in this time period are part of the reason the Bears are a mess right now. I think the 3rd rounder ended up being part of the Brandon Marshall trade. So you can reason that how you like, but trading away stars for dumb reasons is never a great plan. He was, and still is, in his prime and its not like he had a bloated contract. It was stupid.
I don't follow the Bears closely enough to pretend to know the timing of the trade, contract situation, role in the offense, roster makeup, etc. But I do know that Martellus Bennett is a damn good TE himself.
-
I don't follow the Bears closely enough to pretend to know the timing of the trade, contract situation, role in the offense, roster makeup, etc. But I do know that Martellus Bennett is a damn good TE himself.
Martz is an idiot, refused to play a non-existent blocking TE. There's a reason why he's no longer in football.
-
All that is wrong with the Bears' quarterbacking history in one tweet:
ProFootballTalk @ProFootballTalk 3m3 minutes ago
Jay Cutler passes Sid Luckman as Bears' all-time TD pass leader
-
Tough tough comeback by the Bears. After that bad INT in the first half, Cutler was VERY steady. His season/career in a microcosm. He was fantastic in the 4th quarter. INCREDIBLE catch by Miller, wow.
Also, love Gase. His playcall immediately after the pick-6 to go long was ballsy and I loved it. Just when you get down on this team, they bring you right back in. At least it's interesting.
-
Cutler sucks.
-
Crean sucks
-
Tough tough comeback by the Bears. After that bad INT in the first half, Cutler was VERY steady. His season/career in a microcosm. He was fantastic in the 4th quarter. INCREDIBLE catch by Miller, wow.
Also, love Gase. His playcall immediately after the pick-6 to go long was ballsy and I loved it. Just when you get down on this team, they bring you right back in. At least it's interesting.
The fumble was more unacceptable than the INT. When the pocket was collapsing, he needed to cover up that ball. On the INT, it looked like Verrett just ran a better route than Alshon. Cutler needs to recognize that sooner but it happens. Agree on the playcall right after though. Verrett was still winded and likely feeling pretty good about himself and then BOOM! He gets beat deep. Jeffrey owned him from that point on.
Cutler has been very good this season. He still makes his Cutler-esque mistakes but he's carrying a bad team right now. I've said it before but...Cutler has never been as bad as the fans/media often make him out to be, but he's still not living up to his enormous talent.
For the first time in a long time, I feel very positive about the Bears' future. John Fox and his staff are excellent.
-
Re: Rebuilding and the Bears
http://www.barstoolsports.com/chicago/last-nights-bears-win-matters-and-heres-why/
-
For the first time in a long time, I feel very positive about the Bears' future. John Fox and his staff are excellent.
Of course, next year Gase gets a head coaching job and Cutler and the Bears offense have to start all over again.
Unless...make Gase OC and asst head coach next year, with the promise of the head coaching job in '17. Foxy is getting up there, give him a cushy front office job and lots of $$.
-
Of course, next year Gase gets a head coaching job and Cutler and the Bears offense have to start all over again.
Unless...make Gase OC and asst head coach next year, with the promise of the head coaching job in '17. Foxy is getting up there, give him a cushy front office job and lots of $$.
That may be the best option. From the sound of it Fox really loves being with the bears so if you could keep Gase and the QB coach whose name escapes me and give Fox the president of football operations job, that would be ideal from a consistency standpoint.
-
That may be the best option. From the sound of it Fox really loves being with the bears so if you could keep Gase and the QB coach whose name escapes me and give Fox the president of football operations job, that would be ideal from a consistency standpoint.
There is no indication that Fox would want, or would be good at, an administrative job.
-
There is no indication that Fox would want, or would be good at, an administrative job.
What gives you any indication that the Bears would let that stop them?
-
SKOL VIKINGS, currently first place in the NFC North!! Also, up 10-0 after a quarter at Oakland.
The CONSENSUS is back!
-
As a pure football fan, I wish we could forward to February and have Packers/Patriots right now. I know there's other 3-0 teams, but those are the two best teams in football, and would love to see that game and everyone as healthy as possible. It won't happen, but it'd be incredible if both teams went 16-0 reg season, and met in the title game.
Rodgers is Jordan right now, he's the best QB I've ever seen. As great as he's been, this is his absolute prime right now. As poor as QB play is in the league, it makes you appreciate Rodgers that much more.
I think the Lions have just lacked authority more than anything. They've had superstar talent (Suh, Megatron), I like Stafford, he has a hell of an arm, but over all, they just seem to be missing "it" as an organization.
Last thing I think, I think Bears/Saints end up fighting for worst record.
As stated last month, a lot of golf left. Packers look pretty bad right now, but they could rebound. Cowboys, could end up with the worst record. First month of the season is a feeling out process in my opinion.
-
What a total choke job by the Giants. Had the Patriots beat multiple times.
Winning Super Bowls sure buys Coughlin some extra rope. Otherwise, he would have hung himself big-time with that clock management. I was yelling at the TV that they needed to take a knee three times and then kick the FG with well under a minute left. Instead, they gave Brady the ball with nearly 2 minutes and a timeout left!
Then the Giants DB drops the easiest interception attempt humanly possible. Wow.
My Panthers should be one of only 2 unbeatens left. Instead, there are still 3. I hope the Giants are as generous when the Panthers play them next month.
-
That wasn't that easy of an interception, especially as humanly possible.
For whatever reason, the Giants play the Patriots very tough over the years. The Patriots injuries the last two weeks have not helped either.
Good game, fun to watch.
-
That wasn't that easy of an interception, especially as humanly possible.
For whatever reason, the Giants play the Patriots very tough over the years. The Patriots injuries the last two weeks have not helped either.
Good game, fun to watch.
It was a pretty easy interception. A soft lame duck pretty much thrown right to him. Had it in both hands.
But you are right, I shouldn't have used those exact words, because there have been even easier interceptions in NFL history.
Isn't it wonderful when we can kind of agree?
Maybe the next point we should agree on is that you will argue about absolutely anything.
-
For someone who didn't see the game if they were to read your post you would have thought it was a layup interception. It simply wasn't...he had to go high, came down awkwardly and lost it. That's all I'm saying. It seemed like some silly hyperbole on your part as if you lost a bet or somehow your Panthers were impacted by it or something.
NYG could have won that game, perhaps should have....but they didn't.
-
Lions win in Wisconsin for the first time since 1991. But, good Lord, did they try to give that thing away. Lions fans primary thought on the morning after. Oh, crap, what if this helps Caldwell keep his job?
-
It was a pretty easy interception. A soft lame duck pretty much thrown right to him. Had it in both hands.
... there have been even easier interceptions in NFL history.
The Honey Badger may have dropped the easiest INT in NFL history last night. Collins seems to make that INT a lot more difficult than it needed to be.
Also, are the GB offensive issues scheme or personnel related? Seems the WRs have a lot of difficulty getting open.
-
Lions win in Wisconsin for the first time since 1991. But, good Lord, did they try to give that thing away. Lions fans primary thought on the morning after. Oh, crap, what if this helps Caldwell keep his job?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CT4lLFhUsAAJuN2.png:large)
-
Stafford's first ever road win against a team with a winning record. And being a Detroit DB is akin to being the drummer for Spinal Tap. The kid who made the play on the 2 pt conversion was signed Saturday. They are probably going to have to sign at least 2 more off of the street this week for next Sunday's game.
-
For someone who didn't see the game if they were to read your post you would have thought it was a layup interception. It simply wasn't...he had to go high, came down awkwardly and lost it. That's all I'm saying. It seemed like some silly hyperbole on your part as if you lost a bet or somehow your Panthers were impacted by it or something.
Argue, argue, fabricate, fabricate, argue, argue some more.
-
Also, are the GB offensive issues scheme or personnel related? Seems the WRs have a lot of difficulty getting open.
Receivers aren't getting open. Rodgers is getting hit more. He is not as sharp as usual. I think the play calling is very predictable. The defense looks bad against decent quarterbacks.
I think Capers should have been replaced a couple years ago. I think the move to Clements calling the plays sounded good at the time, but in retrospect I think McCarthy was better at that part of the game.
-
What a total choke job by the Giants. Had the Patriots beat multiple times.
Winning Super Bowls sure buys Coughlin some extra rope. Otherwise, he would have hung himself big-time with that clock management. I was yelling at the TV that they needed to take a knee three times and then kick the FG with well under a minute left. Instead, they gave Brady the ball with nearly 2 minutes and a timeout left!
Then the Giants DB drops the easiest interception attempt humanly possible. Wow.
My Panthers should be one of only 2 unbeatens left. Instead, there are still 3. I hope the Giants are as generous when the Panthers play them next month.
That was not an easy interception. It should have been made, but I don't think it was easy. The guy behind him would have had an easy INT though.
-
That was not an easy interception. It should have been made, but I don't think it was easy. The guy behind him would have had an easy INT though.
Not "easy", but that ball, in that situation, you have to catch.
-
Not an 'easy' interception. The way he landed, the fact that he had to be helped off of the field.... hanging on would have been incredible.
-
Receivers aren't getting open. Rodgers is getting hit more. He is not as sharp as usual. I think the play calling is very predictable. The defense looks bad against decent quarterbacks.
I think Capers should have been replaced a couple years ago. I think the move to Clements calling the plays sounded good at the time, but in retrospect I think McCarthy was better at that part of the game.
The offense looked horrific. The Defense wasn't horrible, I expected the Lions to score 17-21...but I also expected the Packers to score 30+. Ive never seen a team with an elite QB throw more simple 2-3 yd out routes that were blanketed.
The management of that last drive was HORRIFIC by Coughlin and the Giants. I was besides myself. People will chalk it up to Patriots greatness and comeback, but most good QBs with 2 min and a time out can drive 45-50 yds. The only smart play the Giants made once they cross the Patriots 30 was Eli falling down in bounds. Otherwise just abysmal.
AWESOME performance by the Bears. Rams aren't world beaters, but they have a very good defense and an elite DL and the Bears just chopped them up. I'm going to miss Gase terribly next year. He had a couple of play calls that were absolutely brilliant. Cutler was steady and controlled, the defense settled down after that horrible first drive and made some big plays. Overall a satisfying performance. The chokes against the Lions and the Vikings are looming large right now.
-
The wide receivers aren't getting open or creating any separation, but they're not being called by the playcalling and play design either. I'm not sure I've seen any of the "illegal" blocking plays with 3 receivers stacked to one side (that have been called a total of once against the Packers this season) since about week 4. That's all we were seemingly doing through the first 4 weeks and we had success. I don't know why it's so hard for the Packers to take a page out of the Patriots playbook and run a bunch of 7 yard button hooks, slants, and pick plays. When you have receivers who can't get open down field, why is every play you run a downfield, 1 on 1 passing play with a dump off to the running back as your only secondary option?
Packers stink right now. Rodgers isn't playing well, running game is non-existant, offensive line is bad, wideouts are bad, and the defense has a total of 0 sacks since the bye week, with 2 of those games coming against either injured or terrible offensive lines. That is horrendous.
-
Also, special teams essentially gives up 7 points yesterday, has 2 punts of about 20 yards, and misses a game winning field goal attempt.
What changes from year to year with these teams? I guess the defense has gotten better, but that's more personnel than it is scheme and execution (the 2 rookie DBs look to be really good, Raji has been good for the most part, etc.) It's the same issues every year, except this year our offense has just gotten worse. Maybe Mac was a good playcaller and is a poor head coach, which is the reverse of what I've had him pegged as for years.
-
Also, special teams essentially gives up 7 points yesterday, has 2 punts of about 20 yards, and misses a game winning field goal attempt.
What changes from year to year with these teams? I guess the defense has gotten better, but that's more personnel than it is scheme and execution (the 2 rookie DBs look to be really good, Raji has been good for the most part, etc.) It's the same issues every year, except this year our offense has just gotten worse. Maybe Mac was a good playcaller and is a poor head coach, which is the reverse of what I've had him pegged as for years.
Did Crosby's attempt hit Masthay(sic)'s hand? Ball seemed to knuckly right away, but I didn't see a good replay angle.
-
Also, special teams essentially gives up 7 points yesterday, has 2 punts of about 20 yards, and misses a game winning field goal attempt.
What changes from year to year with these teams? I guess the defense has gotten better, but that's more personnel than it is scheme and execution (the 2 rookie DBs look to be really good, Raji has been good for the most part, etc.) It's the same issues every year, except this year our offense has just gotten worse. Maybe Mac was a good playcaller and is a poor head coach, which is the reverse of what I've had him pegged as for years.
I don't think he's a poor head coach. He runs a good locker room and gets younger guys to make contributions. I think he struggles a bit with game management. (Clock management, challenging plays, etc.) I think loyalty might be a problem that is rearing up a bit here.
-
I don't think he's a poor head coach. He runs a good locker room and gets younger guys to make contributions. I think he struggles a bit with game management. (Clock management, challenging plays, etc.) I think loyalty might be a problem that is rearing up a bit here.
All good points and I agree. Overall I think he's a good coach, it just gets frustrating when the same issues seemingly continue to kill thee Packers year after year.
-
Did Crosby's attempt hit Masthay(sic)'s hand? Ball seemed to knuckly right away, but I didn't see a good replay angle.
I think Crosby said he just didn't hit it right and took the blame.
-
I think this Sunday will tell us what we need to know about the Pack. If I am a Packer fan, I'm glad this game is on the road at this point in the season.
I can't believe that if the Bears hadn't eff'd up against the Vikes and Lions, they'd be 6-3 (every team can say that though about two-three games a year though). I still don't know what to make of them, their defense is just a bunch of guys, their special teams suck, but they've been really competent on offense.
Weird year in the NFC.
-
The Bears have two of the best coordinators in the league. That is my theory.
-
The Bears have two of the best coordinators in the league. That is my theory.
I sincerely hope they brought Gase in as a head coach in waiting. It would suck to lose such a young, intelligent coach this off season with Fox likely only around a couple years.
-
The Bears have two of the best coordinators in the league. That is my theory.
Yeah, it's hard to argue against that. They look prepared, which is in stark contrast to last season.
It's funny how in the NFL, it's mentioned often the lack of good QB's that there truly are (which is hard to argue against). I'd say the same thing about coordinators.
-
And sometimes, it is a case of the OC's and QB's meshing. Stafford threw for 5000 yards under Linehan. There are precious few 5000 yard seasons in NFL history. QB's who can do that don't suddenly become incompetent as they enter what is supposed to be the prime of their careers. Stafford and Lombardi did not mesh. IMO, the fault for the fall off in Stafford's production can be distributed 50% OC/scheme/play calling, 40% a crap offensive line, and 10% Stafford.
-
Gase is a stud plus every week a Bear is suspended for PEDs= why they are trending.
-
I
I can't believe that if the Bears hadn't eff'd up against the Vikes and Lions, they'd be 6-3 (every team can say that though about two-three games a year though). I still don't know what to make of them, their defense is just a bunch of guys, their special teams suck, but they've been really competent on offense.
Of course, if the Bears hadn't held on or come back for nailbiter wins over the Raiders, Chiefs and Chargers, they'd be 1-8.
The "what-if" game is silly.
-
As I implied, you are what your record is.
-
Argue, argue, fabricate, fabricate, argue, argue some more.
No one is fabricating, except for you saying that was an easy interception (as humanly possible I might add)
-
No one is fabricating, except for you saying that was an easy interception (as humanly possible I might add)
Chicos, I'm done with the politics board, at least for awhile, in great part to stop arguing with the likes of you.
And I'm just not gonna do it here on the basketball board, which is a fun place to get away from the real world.
Go argue with somebody else.
-
Journal Sentinel commenter has figured out why the Packers are struggling:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CT9m4GXUEAAkpgP.png)
-
Journal Sentinel commenter has figured out why the Packers are struggling:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CT9m4GXUEAAkpgP.png)
Yeesh. What do you think his reaction will be when Rodgers' finally comes out?
-
JS Comments is a great twitter follow.
Twitter Tracker
JS Comments @JSComments Nov 15
Let Tolzien play, he can't be any worse than Rodgers.
-
Journal Sentinel commenter has figured out why the Packers are struggling:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CT9m4GXUEAAkpgP.png)
And they face the godless horde next…..Perfect!
-
Chicos, I'm done with the politics board, at least for awhile, in great part to stop arguing with the likes of you.
And I'm just not gonna do it here on the basketball board, which is a fun place to get away from the real world.
Go argue with somebody else.
That's fine, but be truthful...that was hardly an easy interception let alone humanly possible. Did you lose money on the game? Are you just a Patriots hater? There seemed to be some extra zip in this one for you.
-
That's fine, but be truthful...that was hardly an easy interception let alone humanly possible. Did you lose money on the game? Are you just a Patriots hater? There seemed to be some extra zip in this one for you.
You know, I decided to watch it 10 more times just now because you and a few others were so adamant.
I still think it was pretty darn easy. Landon Collins didn't really even need to jump. It was coming right down to him -- a horribly, horribly thrown pass by Brady (as he admitted, obviously).
Was I guilty of hyperbole? I say absolutely I was (something you and everybody else here never is guilty of). It wasn't literally "the easiest interception attempt humanly possible." But I'm still going with an 8.0 to 8.5 on the "easy scale." An NFL DB needs to make that pick. An NFL team that doesn't make that pick against Brady -- thereby giving him another opportunity -- loses.
You are free to disagree.
And nope, I didn't have a bet on the game. I can't remember the last time I bet on an NFL game. I don't play Fantasy Football, either weekly or annually. I don't even "hate" the Patriots, though I am tired of Belicheat.
-
Guys, enough crying about your lesser-teams. Let's focus on the division leader: The CONSENSUS Minnesota Vikings. We are the best, we are the greatest. SKOL Vikings!
-
Guys, enough crying about your lesser-teams. Let's focus on the division leader: The CONSENSUS Minnesota Vikings. We are the best, we are the greatest. SKOL Vikings!
I assume you read this, but if not........
http://www.dailynorseman.com/2015/11/19/9752852/minnesota-vikings-green-bay-packers-preview-nfl-week-11-picks/in/9514607
Equal parts complete delusional homerism, humor, credible insight/analysis, and a self deprecating sense of doom only a Vikings fan can appreciate.
SKOL
-
Bears came within an eyelash of winning.
Unbelievable that Vikes have shot at going two games up on the Pack today.
-
...and I thought Rodgers held the ball way too long. Holy cow.
-
Where's BeeJay, hey?
-
Where's BeeJay, hey?
Good question.
AP is going to be asking the same question about his kids when they're all hiding after this performance when he gets home.
For as much crap as I give a guy like Jay Cutler, I will forever have infinitely more respect for him than AP. Guys like him are the scum of the world.
-
Scum of the world?
-
Scum of the world?
Scum of the world.
-
Just a wee bit dramatic.
-
Just a wee bit dramatic.
I guess to some it might depend on how many illegitimate children he might have in NFL cities throughout the USA that he's never met before. Or how many of his children he has bloodied up. To me neither of those questions matter. I can find absolutely nothing to respect about him. He's the scum of the world in my mind, as are many people like him.
-
Minor setback. Some awful penalties. Looking fwd to the Super Bowl.
-
Minor setback. Some awful penalties. Looking fwd to the Super Bowl.
Haha their 4 game losing streak coming up here won't help those chances. But you never know.
(http://liquornwine.net/image/cache/data/Skol_Vodka1.75-500x500.jpg)
Just took the Packers playing in a college stadium to get back on track. Lacy looking thin like his college days again.
-
Break up the Lions!
-
Minor setback. Some awful penalties. Looking fwd to the Super Bowl.
So you like watching the Pack, or do you just tune in for the commercials?
-
So you like watching the Pack, or do you just tune in for the commercials?
Cardinals and Pats.
-
GB got a patsy at the right time.
-
I'm still trying to figure out how one of the worst defenses in the NFL held Switchy McLashums to 45 rushing yards and sacked Teddy B six times.
Is it possible that an NFL team would hide a game plan (or use only a part of a playbook) against teams they might see in the playoffs, only breaking it out the whole package before week 17, for instance, when the division lead is on the line?
Or is Minny just a poser?
-
I'm still trying to figure out how one of the worst defenses in the NFL held Switchy McLashums to 45 rushing yards and sacked Teddy B six times.
Is it possible that an NFL team would hide a game plan (or use only a part of a playbook) against teams they might see in the playoffs, only breaking it out the whole package before week 17, for instance, when the division lead is on the line?
Or is Minny just a poser?
Minny is okay, but their offense is not that good. Peterson is Peterson and luckily we kept him in check, but Theodore isn't a good quarterback. The best thing Teddy has going for him is that he knows he's not very good, so he doesn't make many completely horrible decisions that lead to turnovers, but man, he has no idea when to just take a sack or throw it away instead of trying to make a play and losing 18 yards. 4-8 yard sacks are manageable in the NFL. 10-20 yard sacks? You give yourself no shot. Teddy doesn't know that.
The Packers defense has been good when they've played a team they know won't burn them when they play 1 on 1 coverage and focus all on stopping the RB and getting to the QB. That is Minny.
Minny has played 2 really good games, 1 horrible game, and then been fairly mediocre in the rest, but they've found ways to win, which will get you in the Playoffs. But their schedule from here on out is not favorable at all.
The Bears, in my opinion, have a better chance of winning Thursday than the Vikings did/do of beating the Packers.
-
Bears came within an eyelash of winning.
Unbelievable that Vikes have shot at going two games up on the Pack today.
Down 8 points, 4th and goal from the 4 with 10 minutes left and they go for it? Take the points, Foxy.
-
The Bears, in my opinion, have a better chance of winning Thursday than the Vikings did/do of beating the Packers.
Agreed. They have talent, but the fact that this was a big game doomed Minnesota. That team NEVER wins big games in the second half of the season.
-
Down 8 points, 4th and goal from the 4 with 10 minutes left and they go for it? Take the points, Foxy.
To be fair, the Broncos last possession they marched down the field on the Bears and chewed up 5 minutes doing so and the Bears D looked tired. I certainly didn't see them having a shot at the end of the game given how the second half was going. Hindsight is 20/20, but I didn't have a huge problem with it at the time.
I had way more of an issue taking the ball out of Cutler's hands on the 2 pt conversion. He'd been good since the interception with the exception of getting bum rushed from behind on the fumble. The inside run felt like a Trestman playcall.
-
To be fair, the Broncos last possession they marched down the field on the Bears and chewed up 5 minutes doing so and the Bears D looked tired. I certainly didn't see them having a shot at the end of the game given how the second half was going. Hindsight is 20/20, but I didn't have a huge problem with it at the time.
I had way more of an issue taking the ball out of Cutler's hands on the 2 pt conversion. He'd been good since the interception with the exception of getting bum rushed from behind on the fumble. The inside run felt like a Trestman playcall.
Yea, that was a bad playcall. Inside draw handoff. I'm just happy the bears are competitive this year. Much better to watch then last year's debacle.
-
To be fair, the Broncos last possession they marched down the field on the Bears and chewed up 5 minutes doing so and the Bears D looked tired. I certainly didn't see them having a shot at the end of the game given how the second half was going. Hindsight is 20/20, but I didn't have a huge problem with it at the time.
I had way more of an issue taking the ball out of Cutler's hands on the 2 pt conversion. He'd been good since the interception with the exception of getting bum rushed from behind on the fumble. The inside run felt like a Trestman playcall.
According to twitter, it was a Cutler call at the line. May have worked had Ward not blitzed or Bennett blocked Ward
-
According to twitter, it was a Cutler call at the line. May have worked had Ward not blitzed or Bennett blocked Ward
Yep. According to Matt Slauson, Cutler changed the play at the line. And according to my eye sight, Martellus didn't get the memo.
-
More than the WRs, the defense has been abused the last three weeks.
The defense was not abused by Detroit. Held them to 18 points. take it every week.
-
You can tune into this little sideshow while you are waiting for the main event on Thursday night.....7+ minutes of Jay Cutler picks vs. GB
https://vimeo.com/138987261
hat tip to Big Sid.
-
You can tune into this little sideshow while you are waiting for the main event on Thursday night.....7+ minutes of Jay Cutler picks vs. GB
https://vimeo.com/138987261
hat tip to Big Sid.
unnatural carnal knowledge off
-
You can tune into this little sideshow while you are waiting for the main event on Thursday night.....7+ minutes of Jay Cutler picks vs. GB
https://vimeo.com/138987261
hat tip to Big Sid.
Surprised they could keep it under 10.
-
You can tune into this little sideshow while you are waiting for the main event on Thursday night.....7+ minutes of Jay Cutler picks vs. GB
https://vimeo.com/138987261
hat tip to Big Sid.
This is outstanding. I saw it a season or two ago. Glad they've updated it.
The best part of it all is that only 10 of the 22 are even remotely difficult plays by the defender (and of those 10, I included the Hail Mary because that's just a 50/50 ball so you can't really put that on Cutler - or the receivers - and a tipped ball at the line, which is sometimes on the quarterback and sometimes not). If you want to teach a young kid hoping to play quarterback what he absolutely cannot do, this 7 minute video will cover just about everything. Just a clinic in terrible footwork, terrible decision making, miscommunication, etc.
-
You can tune into this little sideshow while you are waiting for the main event on Thursday night.....7+ minutes of Jay Cutler picks vs. GB
https://vimeo.com/138987261
hat tip to Big Sid.
At about 7:10 in, I was thinking to myself "all those interceptions, and not a single pick-6"
-
Lions putting a whoopin' on Eagles.
-
New OC, new line coach, new blocking scheme. Stafford is being kept on his feet and he no longer sucks. Plus, everyone is now playing like they fear for their jobs.
-
They're a comin'!
-
A couple of fantom flags going each way tonight.
-
That tripping call on Slauson was horrendous.
-
Ed Hochuli: May be the most in shape but worst official in the NFL.
-
Uh oh...
-
Not sure how that gets blown dead...
-
Not sure how that gets blown dead...
Huge break for the Bears. Bad call.
-
I haven't paid much attention to this which is why I ask...how common is it for the head coach to have the offensive playbook on him and looking through it during offensive possessions? Never really noticed since McCarthy was always calling the plays. But now that he's not he still has his head buried in his sheet. I feel like I don't notice other head coaches doing that. Am I just missing it? I thought the reason for Mac not calling plays was to be more involved in the other aspects of the game and be more aware of what's going on on the field. It doesn't seem like that's the case when his attention is completely focused on the playcalling anyways. I don't know how that works, though.
-
Also, why in the world is Masthay still our punter? He has to be the worst punter in the NFL, and has been terrible for years. And I get it, he's our "holder"...who blocks our own kicker's game winning field goal attempts.
-
Well, Jay's trying to give us the turnover. Packers just don't seem to want it tonight (and this year).
-
No adding to the montage tonight. Atta boy cutty.
-
I honestly can't give you full names of 75% of the Bears defense, kudos to them for holding the Pack to 13 points.
-
How much longer can this Tom Clement's charade continue?
-
Some very close games the Bears won that they easily could have lost but I'd love to have the MN or Detroit game back. Nice to have a real coaching staff and be competitive.
-
This Bears team has no business being 5-6 with their roster. Gase/Fangio have done an unreal job.
-
This Bears team has no business being 5-6 with their roster. Gase/Fangio have done an unreal job.
It's gonna suck when Gase leaves next year...
-
It's gonna suck when Gase leaves next year...
It will, but I'd rather keep Fangio. Bears have much more talent on offense. I have no idea how Fangio is coaching up multiple undrafted street free agents and getting them to play above average.
-
I never thought coaching would have such an impact on Cutler. It's like he's a different cat. Congrats Bears people. Nice win.
-
I think the lack of a playmaking TE (outside of Nelson being out) is hurting the Pack offense. Adams had a really rough evening, and Cobb looked slow. Their lack of separation is stunning, especially in the red zone.
They're still a playoff team, get Vikes in Green Bay to end the year, just too many meh performances over the last month.
-
Not sure how that gets blown dead...
Watch it again. Right guard #70 (Lang?) clearly reacts to the D and moves before the ball is snapped.
-
Watch it again. Right guard #70 (Lang?) clearly reacts to the D and moves before the ball is snapped.
Don't have the replay on hand, but that happens on just about every offsides call that goes on. It gets blown dead when the defender is "unimpeded to the quarterback," which was clearly not the case. It was a big time blunder, but it really doesn't matter. Packers will win the North and flame out in the Playoffs, just like they would've had they won this game. The Packers simply aren't a very good football team.
-
Don't have the replay on hand, but that happens on just about every offsides call that goes on. It gets blown dead when the defender is "unimpeded to the quarterback," which was clearly not the case. It was a big time blunder, but it really doesn't matter. Packers will win the North and flame out in the Playoffs, just like they would've had they won this game. The Packers simply aren't a very good football team.
It gets blown dead if the defender us unimpeded to the QB or if an offensive player moves before the snap. Easy, correct call by the officials...unlike the tripping call on Slauson and the illegal contact on Porter ;)
-
I think the lack of a playmaking TE (outside of Nelson being out) is hurting the Pack offense. Adams had a really rough evening, and Cobb looked slow. Their lack of separation is stunning, especially in the red zone.
They're still a playoff team, get Vikes in Green Bay to end the year, just too many meh performances over the last month.
It's brutal Dish. The way the Packers were able to run the ball guys should have been open all night. It's a continuation of what we've seen since the bye. Personally, I'm pinning it on Clemens. There's word out there that there's been too much 'video game time' and not enough 'playbook time'. Changes (either personnel or coaching) are certainly coming in the off season. They have elite talent and are horribly underperforming.
-
Don't have the replay on hand, but that happens on just about every offsides call that goes on. It gets blown dead when the defender is "unimpeded to the quarterback," which was clearly not the case. It was a big time blunder, but it really doesn't matter. Packers will win the North and flame out in the Playoffs, just like they would've had they won this game. The Packers simply aren't a very good football team.
Lang jumped early.
The wide receivers suck. No separation.
-
Been coming to GB for Thanksgiving w the in-laws for more than 25 years. Went to the game last night. I envy Detroit (never thought I'd say that) the tradition of a TDay game. Dinner an hour early, o/w able to do the usual stuff and still make it to the game. And then a result to be thankful for. (And thanks to all the GB fans around us- not surprisingly, really nice, knowledgeable and dedicated). Not the Bears year, but another Coin flip game w the coin coming up the right way this time.
-
SKOL VIKINGS! The CONSENSUS will represent our division well as the top dawg when playoff time comes.
-
It gets blown dead if the defender us unimpeded to the QB or if an offensive player moves before the snap. Easy, correct call by the officials...unlike the tripping call on Slauson and the illegal contact on Porter ;)
Then they have been allowing the Packers to illegally continue plays for years now, since Favre was around.
And when they came back from break after the tripping call they said the head of officials was there vehemently saying that was the correct call, so I think you're wrong there (not that I know the letter of the rule, but based on that it sounds like it was the right call...doesn't mean it's a good rule).
I suppose you think the illegal pick by...well, Chicago's own defender on his teammate...was the right call, though.
-
I suppose you think the illegal pick by...well, Chicago's own defender on his teammate...was the right call, though.
That was a garbage call, just like the illegal contact on Porter that gave the Packers a TD. Water in, water out. The refs were hot garbage both ways, all game.
-
That was a garbage call, just like the illegal contact on Porter that gave the Packers a TD. Water in, water out. The refs were hot garbage both ways, all game.
No doubt.
Unfortunately, the Packers were even hotter garbage.
-
Ahhhh, the sweet sound of Packers fans blaming the refs. It's good to get a win.
-
Ahhhh, the sweet sound of Packers fans blaming the refs. It's good to get a win.
Blaming the refs? Hmm...must've missed that.
-
Ahhhh, the sweet sound of Packers fans blaming the refs. It's good to get a win.
Not me Chi. Not sure why we suck right now but them's the facts.
-
Not me Chi. Not sure why we suck right now but them's the facts.
It baffles me too. I fully expected to get rolled last night. On paper minus Jordy being hurt it's still the same team.
This Bears team is the most hodgepodge of players I have ever seen and they're 5-6. I looked at their remaining schedule and they have a legitimate chance of making the playoffs. The Bears got my hopes up, which I promised myself I wouldn't let happen this season.
-
Very surprised to see the bears running this last night. Made clay make an early decision.
https://twitter.com/jesmu84/status/670309747019616257
-
Vikes looking good so far today Jay Bee. Good chance of being on top of the Pack today.
-
As much as Cutler gets hammered...I present Matt Ryan.
-
As much as Cutler gets hammered...I present Matt Ryan.
But Matt Ryan has better "body language" and didn't sit out of a playoff game when he could have played.
-
As much as Cutler gets hammered...I present Matt Ryan.
But Matt Ryan has better "body language" and didn't sit out of a playoff game when he could have played.
As much as it'd be awesome to play Matt Ryan twice a year too, you could also look at their numbers and realize Matt Ryan's worst years are better than Jay Cutler's best years...
-
Are we sure Matt Ryan is good? He should be in his absolute prime right now, with one of the best WR's in the game. Outside of Peyton Manning, Ryan is second in the NFL with 15 turnovers, league high 4 red zone picks. His completion percentage is at a 5 year low, his TD % is worst in his 8 year career.
-
WE ARE #1. SKOL VIKINGS! Top of the NFC North with an 8-3 record. Super Bowl, homeboy!
-
But Matt Ryan has better "body language" and didn't sit out of a playoff game when he could have played.
Teal?
As much as it'd be awesome to play Matt Ryan twice a year too, you could also look at their numbers and realize Matt Ryan's worst years are better than Jay Cutler's best years...
From 2013 to the present:
Ryan: 43 GS, .372 win%, 289 yds/gm, 70 TD, 43 INT, 90.9 rating, 4.1 TD%, 2.5 INT%
Cutler: 36 GS, .417 win%, 248 yds/gm, 61 TD, 36 INT, 89.8 rating, 4.9 TD%, 2.9 INT%
Look pretty similar.
-
Teal?
From 2013 to the present:
Ryan: 43 GS, .372 win%, 289 yds/gm, 70 TD, 43 INT, 90.9 rating, 4.1 TD%, 2.5 INT%
Cutler: 36 GS, .417 win%, 248 yds/gm, 61 TD, 36 INT, 89.8 rating, 4.9 TD%, 2.9 INT%
Look pretty similar.
So 20% of their careers, in which you include Cutler's best season (this season) and Ryan's worst season (this season). Sure, then their careers look pretty similar...which is exactly what I said. Ryan's worst seasons are better than Cutler's best. Sure, it's close, though.
-
So 20% of their careers, in which you include Cutler's best season (this season) and Ryan's worst season (this season). Sure, then their careers look pretty similar...which is exactly what I said. Ryan's worst seasons are better than Cutler's best. Sure, it's close, though.
That's simply wrong. Statistically, Ryan was worse in 2008 and 2009 than he is this season and Cutler has been better than each of those seasons. The point was that Cutler takes all kinds of heat but he and Ryan have been basically the same in recent seasons.
I won't get into this anymore with you though because you basically turn into Ners discussing Derrick Wilson when Jay Cutler's name comes up.
-
That's simply wrong. Statistically, Ryan was worse in 2008 and 2009 than he is this season and Cutler has been better than each of those seasons. The point was that Cutler takes all kinds of heat but he and Ryan have been basically the same in recent seasons.
I won't get into this anymore with you though because you basically turn into Ners discussing Derrick Wilson when Jay Cutler's name comes up.
Haha that's all fine and good. Matt Ryan's worst QB rating was in his second season at 80.9. Besides that, his second worst was his rookie season at 87.7. Jay Cutler has been better than that once in his career, and will most likely finish higher than that for the 2nd time this season. Same song and dance for Ryan's QBR. His 2nd worst QBR is 62.3, a number Cutler has finished higher than a total of twice in his career.
Cutler has been in the league for 2 extra seasons, a full time starter for 1 extra season, yet has fewer passing yards, the same amount of touchdowns, far more turnovers (fumbles are bad too, in case you forgot that), and fewer attempts than Ryan. Ryan has a higher completion percentage and essentially the same yards per pass (7.21 for Ryan, 7.20 for Cutler).
It's really not even close, but I turn into Ners/Derrick Wilson when Cutler's name comes up, so the numbers must be lying.
It was asked why Jay Cutler gets so much crap when there is a quarterback like Matt Ryan out there. Well, quite simply, because Matt Ryan has had a far, far better career than Jay Cutler. Just because Jay Cutler is having a single season that is better than Matt Ryan this year doesn't make Jay Cutler a better quarterback.
Andy Dalton and Cam Newton are having better seasons than Aaron Rodgers. Why don't we discuss Andy Dalton and Cam Newton as possibly the best players ever to play football like we do Aaron Rodgers?
-
Blahblahblah Cutler sucks Blahblahblah Cutler is the worst QB Blahblahblah Blahblahblah QBR Blahblahblah I hate Cutler Blahblahblah green and gold kool-aid Blahblahblah turnovers Blahblahblah same old, same old Blahblahblah Rodgers Blahblahblah inaccurate statistics Blahblahblah
FIFY
Save yourself some time and just copy and paste that next time. We all know that you're incapable of thinking rationally when it comes to Cutler. You apparently can't do math either since you don't believe that 88.1, 88.5 and 88.6 are higher than 87.7.
(http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0175/8784/products/HaveANiceJay400w_large.jpg?v=1369504764)
-
FIFY
Save yourself some time and just copy and paste that next time. We all know that you're incapable of thinking rationally when it comes to Cutler. You apparently can't do math either since you don't believe that 88.1, 88.5 and 88.6 are higher than 87.7.
(http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0175/8784/products/HaveANiceJay400w_large.jpg?v=1369504764)
Lol. Hey, at least you won one part of the argument. You are right I looked at the wrong number. Ryan's 3rd worst QB rating is better than Cutler's best QB rating. Congrats.
What's funniest? This is being brought up because Matt Ryan is having a "horrible" season...so bad that it'd be Jay Cutler's second highest career QB rating and 3rd highest QBR.
But, keep thinking Jay is better than Matt Ryan. Speaking rationally here, if you like QBs to have fewer yards, equal touchdowns in more seasons, far more turnovers, a lower completion percentage, etc....well, rationally, you are right!
Dalton and Cam best ever!
-
What does Jay think of Matty Ice?
(https://media.giphy.com/media/wlP3dzD8gxnmo/giphy.gif)
Also, a stat you bring up so often, Cutler winning 1 playoff game. How many has the vaunted Matt Ryan won? 1 as well.
-
What does Jay think of Matty Ice?
(https://media.giphy.com/media/wlP3dzD8gxnmo/giphy.gif)
Jay smiles?
(http://images.complex.com/complex/image/upload/t_article_image/fgcd8jqdfhwoahv5jt8n.jpg)
-
So this thread has devolved to an argument over which thoroughly mediocre QB is a little less sad than the other thoroughly mediocre QB? God, I love Scoop!
Bob Avellini vs Scott Hunter. Discuss.
-
So this thread has devolved to an argument over which thoroughly mediocre QB is a little less sad than the other thoroughly mediocre QB? God, I love Scoop!
Bob Avellini vs Scott Hunter. Discuss.
How many current NFL quarterbacks have had better numbers in their career than Matt Ryan? I'd venture to guess it's less than 10.
-
How many current NFL quarterbacks have had better numbers in their career than Matt Ryan? I'd venture to guess it's less than 10.
Matt Ryan is a system quarterback who can make throws but not really make plays. He's pretty much an average quarterback. Here is a list of current NFL quarterbacks I would rather have for a season:
Rodgers, Brady, Romo, Wilson, Rivers, Brees, Roethlisberger, Palmer, Newton, Luck, Dalton, Flacco and Eli Manning. (I'm not including Peyton because I think he's actually dead.)
Ryan would be grouped with Stafford, Cutler and Alex Smith.
-
How many current NFL quarterbacks have had better numbers in their career than Matt Ryan? I'd venture to guess it's less than 10.
Depends on the stats you choose. Yeah, I'm sure there are some that make him look decent, but there are also plenty that make him look mediocre. Kinda like Avellini and Hunter.
-
Matt Ryan is a system quarterback who can make throws but not really make plays. He's pretty much an average quarterback. Here is a list of current NFL quarterbacks I would rather have for a season:
Rodgers, Brady, Romo, Wilson, Rivers, Brees, Roethlisberger, Palmer, Newton, Luck, Dalton, Flacco and Eli Manning. (I'm not including Peyton because I think he's actually dead.)
Ryan would be grouped with Stafford, Cutler and Alex Smith.
Ryan's career numbers are actually pretty dang impressive. Your list of players for this season looks fairly accurate, although I'm not sure I'd take Eli, Flacco, or Brees this year, but in terms of players who have proven they can perform year in and year out he's a 2nd tier quarterback. 1st would be Brady, Rodgers, Peyton (but like you said, he's done), and Rothlisberger. 2nd tier I would say would be Romo, Ryan, Wilson, Brees, Flacco, and Eli. 3rd tier I would say would be Cam, Palmer, Luck, Dalton, Cutler...guys who either haven't done it consistently yet but are showing they have the potential to be stars, have been injured too often, or have been too inconsistent and haven't won anything major yet.
-
I am not disputing that Ryan has good stats. I just don't know what that means. He throws a ton of short passes and does so accurately. He is 9th in attempts among active quarterbacks, 10th in completions, but 24th in yards per completion. I think he's one of those quarterbacks that is "efficient," but one who I struggle thinking "that guy is going to win us something."
-
It also helps that Ryan had Roddy White when he was damn good and Julio Jones. Yes Cutler had Marshall and Alshon, but I wouldn't put those two on the same level as Roddy and Julio in their prime.
-
I am not disputing that Ryan has good stats. I just don't know what that means. He throws a ton of short passes and does so accurately. He is 9th in attempts among active quarterbacks, 10th in completions, but 24th in yards per completion. I think he's one of those quarterbacks that is "efficient," but one who I struggle thinking "that guy is going to win us something."
Ryan is primarily the type of QB who's not going to lose a game for you...but he's typically not going to put the team on his back and win one for you either.
Cutler has the ability to put the team on his back and win one for you (as we've seen a couple times this season) but he also has the "ability" to lose a game for you (as we've also seen).
-
To be quite clear, I never started a Cutler/Ryan comparison...all I ever said was Ryan deserved to get hammered for this season, and quite possibly he's only ever been a slightly better than average quarterback, and is only being recognized for it now.
I don't think it matters who's better between Cutler/Ryan, I just think Ryan has gotten a free pass for not a great body of work.
-
To be quite clear, I never started a Cutler/Ryan comparison...all I ever said was Ryan deserved to get hammered for this season, and quite possibly he's only ever been a slightly better than average quarterback, and is only being recognized for it now.
I don't think it matters who's better between Cutler/Ryan, I just think Ryan has gotten a free pass for not a great body of work.
Valid point. IMHO Cutler takes more crap than Ryan because of his aloof demeanor. And it isn't just me - Google "Matt Ryan attitude" and "Jay Cutler attitude" - you'll be reading some very different stuff. Maybe the rep is warranted, maybe it isn't, but it's certainly how he comes off.
Bad attitude may be ignored if you're a superstar, but at the mid-level, more people notice.
-
Ryan is probably going to go over 4,000 yards for the 5th straight season. He had back to back seasons where he went for 4,177 yards, 29 TD, and 12 INT and 4,719 yards, 32 TD, and 14 INT. Those aren't numbers of a quarterback whose peak is to not lose you football games. Those are the numbers of a low end top tier quarterback for a short window of time (think Russell Wilson or Carson Palmer right now or Cam Newton right now or Eli...guys who flash greatness but aren't there consistently), especially when the following season he threw for over 4,500 yards and 26 TD again. He's certainly not a top tier QB every season and he's made his fair share of horrible decisions in big situations (Tramon Williams pick 6 to end the first half in the 2010 Playoffs while trying to gain some yardage for his field goal kicker comes to mind), but just because he's having one bad season doesn't make him a mediocre QB. I would not at all be surprised to see him bounce back next year and go for 4,500 yards and 25-30 TDs with 12-15 picks.
-
It also helps that Ryan had Roddy White when he was damn good and Julio Jones. Yes Cutler had Marshall and Alshon, but I wouldn't put those two on the same level as Roddy and Julio in their prime.
Matt Ryan also didn't have to play under Trestman for two years and Martz with the worst offensive line in the NFL.
I'm no Jay fan, but his situation hasn't been as gravy.
-
Ryan's career numbers are actually pretty dang impressive. Your list of players for this season looks fairly accurate, although I'm not sure I'd take Eli, Flacco, or Brees this year, but in terms of players who have proven they can perform year in and year out he's a 2nd tier quarterback. 1st would be Brady, Rodgers, Peyton (but like you said, he's done), and Rothlisberger. 2nd tier I would say would be Romo, Ryan, Wilson, Brees, Flacco, and Eli. 3rd tier I would say would be Cam, Palmer, Luck, Dalton, Cutler...guys who either haven't done it consistently yet but are showing they have the potential to be stars, have been injured too often, or have been too inconsistent and haven't won anything major yet.
Interesting.
I'd take Newton over Romo, Ryan, Brees (now) and Flacco, both to win one game and to build around for several seasons.
-
Since the 2013 NFC title game, Ryan has gone 16-27 as a starter. Something else that needs to be noted, he plays at a minimum 9 games a year in a dome, two other games in warm weather climates. I found it interesting that one of his main NFL comps is Trent Green.
The pick six he threw against the Colts and the end zone int he threw yesterday were arguably two of the worst throws of the year. Career wise, he's not horrible by any means, he hasn't been bad, I just think his career arc, which should still be slightly rising, has regressed. His home/road splits aren't good, which is surprising.
They'll bring him back next year, no replacement on the roster, he's got $18 mil in dead money next year. They'll have an interesting decision next offseason though.
-
Ryan is probably going to go over 4,000 yards for the 5th straight season. He had back to back seasons where he went for 4,177 yards, 29 TD, and 12 INT and 4,719 yards, 32 TD, and 14 INT. Those aren't numbers of a quarterback whose peak is to not lose you football games. Those are the numbers of a low end top tier quarterback for a short window of time (think Russell Wilson or Carson Palmer right now or Cam Newton right now or Eli...guys who flash greatness but aren't there consistently), especially when the following season he threw for over 4,500 yards and 26 TD again. He's certainly not a top tier QB every season and he's made his fair share of horrible decisions in big situations (Tramon Williams pick 6 to end the first half in the 2010 Playoffs while trying to gain some yardage for his field goal kicker comes to mind), but just because he's having one bad season doesn't make him a mediocre QB. I would not at all be surprised to see him bounce back next year and go for 4,500 yards and 25-30 TDs with 12-15 picks.
Those numbers tell me that he would make a nice fantasy draft pick.
-
Ryan is probably going to go over 4,000 yards for the 5th straight season. He had back to back seasons where he went for 4,177 yards, 29 TD, and 12 INT and 4,719 yards, 32 TD, and 14 INT. Those aren't numbers of a quarterback whose peak is to not lose you football games. Those are the numbers of a low end top tier quarterback for a short window of time (think Russell Wilson or Carson Palmer right now or Cam Newton right now or Eli...guys who flash greatness but aren't there consistently), especially when the following season he threw for over 4,500 yards and 26 TD again.
Russell Wilson has a ring, Eli has 2 rings. That's exactly the kind of inconsistent play I want from my QB. Where do I sign up?
-
Russell Wilson has a ring, Eli has 2 rings. That's exactly the kind of inconsistent play I want from my QB. Where do I sign up?
Yup. Russell Wilson won a ring by handing the ball to one of the best backs in the league and letting one of the best defenses in the history of football carry him to a ring. What happened when he decided to throw the ball in the Playoffs? Uh oh. Put Russell Wilson on the Falcons, Bears, Cowboys, or others and those teams are all worse than they are with Ryan, Cutler, Romo, etc. Russell Wilson is very good...because he realizes he's not very good. He's smart enough to let his coaches hide his deficiencies as a passer and allows them to run an offense that makes him effective through a bunch of misdirection, getting out in space, etc.
Eli Manning follows up a Super Bowl winning season with a season in which he completed 57.5% of his passes, had 18 TD, and 27 INT. Consistency at its finest. When you combine rushing and passing touchdowns and fumbles lost and interceptions, Eli has 287 touchdowns and 273 turnovers in his career while completing 59.3% of his passes.
Matt Hasselback, Rex Grossman, Jake Delhomme, Chris Chandler, Kerry Collins, Niel O'Donnell, and Stan Humphries all "led their teams" to Super Bowl appearances. Mark Rypien, Trent Dilfer, Doug Williams, and Jeff Hostetler all have rings as starting quarterbacks.
-
Yup. Russell Wilson won a ring by handing the ball to one of the best backs in the league and letting one of the best defenses in the history of football carry him to a ring. What happened when he decided to throw the ball in the Playoffs? Uh oh. Put Russell Wilson on the Falcons, Bears, Cowboys, or others and those teams are all worse than they are with Ryan, Cutler, Romo, etc. Russell Wilson is very good...because he realizes he's not very good. He's smart enough to let his coaches hide his deficiencies as a passer and allows them to run an offense that makes him effective through a bunch of misdirection, getting out in space, etc.
Eli Manning follows up a Super Bowl winning season with a season in which he completed 57.5% of his passes, had 18 TD, and 27 INT. Consistency at its finest. When you combine rushing and passing touchdowns and fumbles lost and interceptions, Eli has 287 touchdowns and 273 turnovers in his career while completing 59.3% of his passes.
Matt Hasselback, Rex Grossman, Jake Delhomme, Chris Chandler, Kerry Collins, Niel O'Donnell, and Stan Humphries all "led their teams" to a Super Bowl appearances. Mark Rypien, Trent Dilfer, Doug Williams, and Jeff Hostetler all have rings as starting quarterbacks.
Well, Eli does have 2 rings. And he repeatedly came up huge in the both postseason runs. That's more than a fluke. He's no Peyton Manning for sure, but he's proved WAY more than a bunch of QBs on these lists.
-
Well, Eli does have 2 rings. And he repeatedly came up huge in the both postseason runs. That's more than a fluke. He's no Peyton Manning for sure, but he's proved WAY more than a bunch of QBs on these lists.
Therein lies the problem. Eli is no Peyton, yet Eli has 2 rings and Peyton has 1. So Is it really that Peyton is no Eli, then?
I am of the opinion that Peyton Manning may very well be the best quarterback ever to play have played football, at least that I have been alive to see, yet he only has 1 ring. The Packers have had arguably the best nearly 25 years of quarterbacking for one franchise consecutively...and have 2 Super Bowls to show for it.
There are 22 positions between offense and defense, plus special teams players. 53 roster spots. It takes a lot of talent around a quarterback, it takes a lot of luck, it takes a lot of health, it takes really good coaching, etc. to win a Super Bowl. Some really average quarterbacks have been on some teams that carried them to Super Bowls. Some very good quarterbacks have come up just short of Super Bowls.
Of course the ultimate goal is to win a championship in any sport at any level. But is Trent Dilfer really better than Dan Marino? Are Karl Malone and John Stockton really not some of the greatest basketball players ever because they didn't get a ring? Did LeBron really need to hop on Wade's back ;) in order to cement himself as a greatest of all time? To me, the answers are all a resounding no.
-
Interesting write-up on Cutler.
http://www.windycitygridiron.com/2015/12/1/9817110/why-everyone-is-right-about-jay-cutler (http://www.windycitygridiron.com/2015/12/1/9817110/why-everyone-is-right-about-jay-cutler)
-
Therein lies the problem. Eli is no Peyton, yet Eli has 2 rings and Peyton has 1. So Is it really that Peyton is no Eli, then?
I am of the opinion that Peyton Manning may very well be the best quarterback ever to play have played football, at least that I have been alive to see, yet he only has 1 ring. The Packers have had arguably the best nearly 25 years of quarterbacking for one franchise consecutively...and have 2 Super Bowls to show for it.
There are 22 positions between offense and defense, plus special teams players. 53 roster spots. It takes a lot of talent around a quarterback, it takes a lot of luck, it takes a lot of health, it takes really good coaching, etc. to win a Super Bowl. Some really average quarterbacks have been on some teams that carried them to Super Bowls. Some very good quarterbacks have come up just short of Super Bowls.
Of course the ultimate goal is to win a championship in any sport at any level. But is Trent Dilfer really better than Dan Marino? Are Karl Malone and John Stockton really not some of the greatest basketball players ever because they didn't get a ring? Did LeBron really need to hop on Wade's back ;) in order to cement himself as a greatest of all time? To me, the answers are all a resounding no.
Nobody here -- and certainly not me -- said Dilfer was better than Marino or that Malone/Stockton were not all-timers. So this whole thing is a strawman argument.
All I said was that Eli does deserve credit for winning 2 rings and playing superbly in the postseason of both championship runs -- all as part of a pretty nice (if not superstar-level) career. Dilfer, Rypien, et al have 1 ring each. It's a lot harder to win 2.
Here are the starting QBs to win at least 2 Super Bowls: Starr, Staubach, Griese, Bradshaw, Plunkett, Montana, Aikman, Elway, Brady, Roethlisberger, E. Manning.
That's pretty exclusive company. And even if Manning is the "worst" on that list (actually, I'd argue Plunkett is), it's still pretty impressive.
Oh, and I came right out and said that Eli is no Peyton.
So what are you arguing with me about?
-
Nobody here -- and certainly not me -- said Dilfer was better than Marino or that Malone/Stockton were not all-timers. So this whole thing is a strawman argument.
All I said was that Eli does deserve credit for winning 2 rings and playing superbly in the postseason of both championship runs -- all as part of a pretty nice (if not superstar-level) career. Dilfer, Rypien, et al have 1 ring each. It's a lot harder to win 2.
Here are the starting QBs to win at least 2 Super Bowls: Starr, Staubach, Griese, Bradshaw, Plunkett, Montana, Aikman, Elway, Brady, Roethlisberger, E. Manning.
That's pretty exclusive company. And even if Manning is the "worst" on that list (actually, I'd argue Plunkett is), it's still pretty impressive.
Oh, and I came right out and said that Eli is no Peyton.
So what are you arguing with me about?
I'm saying rings are what everyone obviously want to win. But I'm also saying rings don't determine whether 1 player is better than another player or if a player is a great player or not. Eli has come up big in some big moments, no doubt. But I don't think him winning 2 rings proves he's a great quarterback. He's an average quarterback who played some good football at the right times and whose teams got hot at the right times. He certainly deserves a lot of credit. But if I'm taking a quarterback in the NFL for the next 3 years Eli's not one of my first 10 selections.
-
I'm saying rings are what everyone obviously want to win. But I'm also saying rings don't determine whether 1 player is better than another player or if a player is a great player or not. Eli has come up big in some big moments, no doubt. But I don't think him winning 2 rings proves he's a great quarterback. He's an average quarterback who played some good football at the right times and whose teams got hot at the right times. He certainly deserves a lot of credit. But if I'm taking a quarterback in the NFL for the next 3 years Eli's not one of my first 10 selections.
OK, given all that, I don't think we disagree all that much about Eli.
I'd probably argue he's a good QB (not just average) because one of the main measuring sticks of "goodness" in a QB is performance in the biggest games.
But he isn't consistent enough to be a great QB. And without ranking them 1-10 right this second, my inclination would be to agree that Eli wouldn't be in my 10 either, though it would be close.
-
I'm saying rings are what everyone obviously want to win. But I'm also saying rings don't determine whether 1 player is better than another player or if a player is a great player or not. Eli has come up big in some big moments, no doubt. But I don't think him winning 2 rings proves he's a great quarterback. He's an average quarterback who played some good football at the right times and whose teams got hot at the right times. He certainly deserves a lot of credit. But if I'm taking a quarterback in the NFL for the next 3 years Eli's not one of my first 10 selections.
I would rather have a statistically average quarterback who "comes up big in big moments" (Eli), than a statistically stellar one who sh*ts the bed come playoff time. (Ryan)
-
I would rather have a statistically average quarterback who "comes up big in big moments" (Eli), than a statistically stellar one who sh*ts the bed come playoff time. (Ryan)
Exactly.
-
They don't look like they've quit, but this Packers team tonight looks like they have little interest in playing this game.
-
Oh I think they've quit. This is pretty much rock bottom here. I have no clue how you even begin to diagnose this crap.
-
New OC, new line coach, playing for jobs. But the lions will still find a way to blow this.
-
New OC, new line coach, playing for jobs. But the lions will still find a way to blow this.
There will be no blowing this one. And unlike last time when you tried everything you could to give the Packers the win, the Packers will not be refusing to take this one. They'll just be straight up blown out of this one.
-
JC Tretter, Lane Taylor, and Don Barclay. Holy smokes. Can we just put Tolzien in and save Rodgers's career tonight, please?
-
Here come the Packers. Or, Here go the Lions.
-
Wow
-
Unbelievable
Saved the season
-
New OC, new line coach, playing for jobs. But the lions will still find a way to blow this.
Bad bad bad time for a penalty. (from a guy used to watching the Browns snatch defeat from the jaws of victory....like on Mon night)
-
That game had a ton of twists and turns, probably best Thursday night game I can recall.
Kudos to the Pack for getting up off the mat early and saving their season, pretty eff'ing clutch, ton of credit for not quitting tonight.
-
Just the way we drew it up
-
Unb.
-
talk about heart attack pack. just think if they would have pulled off the win in carolina, against chicago(as they were outplayed in both) and add it to this one?? have to admit they caught a break on the facemask call, but them is the breaks heyna? hard to say if this gives them a jolt because they can't win the rest of their games like that. offensive line is even more beat up and their receivers still can't get open. here's hoping rodgers is able to escape with his life, BUT
GO PACK GO !!!!!!
-
New OC, new line coach, playing for jobs. But the lions will still find a way to blow this.
Bump. The question is never if, the question is how. And they never fail to innovate.
-
Bump. The question is never if, the question is how. And they never fail to innovate.
didn't see the time you entered this at first-good call! if i would have known this, i would have watched the whole game, but my heart couldn't take anymore. a guy has only so many tv's to throw out the back door
-
Detroit was the better team for 60 minutes. Being the Lions, they found a way to make the game 60 minutes and 10 seconds. They are a cross between the Washington Generals and Wile E Coyote and Charlie Brown trying to kick the football Lucy is holding. You know they are going to lose, the question is how the anvil is going to smack them and leave them on the canyon floor. I was watching the game at the fire station and I just started belly laughing after the Hail Mary. They had found a way. And we had started trying to figure out how they were going to do it at halftime. It is almost a parlor game. How are they going to blow it today? Will an official ignore a batting the ball out of the end zone rule? Will Aaron Rogers extend the game by selling a facemask call? Who knows? But it will be creative.
-
That may be the easiest hail mary ever. Yea the face mask penalty was borderline, and the officials missed a hold, but bad officiating is the new standard.
-
He was open. As the ball started down, there wasn't a defender within ten feet. And he wasn't the only receiver open. All of defenders had drifted too deep into the end zone. Worse than when they showed all of the defenders with their back to the play on Rogers scramble.
-
Saw an article today that Caldwell wasn't expecting a hail mary, and they had drawn up a defense to combat a lateral style play. But thankfully they had the sidelines covered...
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CVW74k8WoAAOnHL.jpg)
-
At the end of the day, same old Lions.
-
He was open. As the ball started down, there wasn't a defender within ten feet. And he wasn't the only receiver open. All of defenders had drifted too deep into the end zone. Worse than when they showed all of the defenders with their back to the play on Rogers scramble.
It was horrid coverage. Biggest guy on the field catching what amounted to a thrown punt with absolutely nobody marking up on him. Richard Rodgers is known for his hands. And to rush 3? The Pack had just run multiple vertical routes. Once Aaron broke contain and could launch into the throw there was a real chance.
But as Packers fans let's not go overboard. Our offensive has been playing terrible football for 2 months. Last night should have been a season dagger. Miraculously, it wasn't. But they need to find themselves in the next 10 days. We need to probably go 2-2 to make the playoffs. 3-1 with a win over the 'Queens will almost certainly win the division. But this is a team that had legitimate Super Bowl aspirations at the beginning. Still a very long hill to climb.
-
Detroit was the better team for 60 minutes.
I would say the Packers were the better team the last 20 minutes or so of that game. The Packer defense kept them in that game by only holding them to two FGs after the first quarter.
But I'm with glow. This team still isn't really good...at least playoff good. It will be nice to rest ten days, but the receivers still suck, Lacy is still fat and the OL is a bit of a sieve. And the final four isn't easy with road trips to Oakland and Arizona and a home game v. the Vikings. They will make the playoffs, but my guess is as a WC.
-
Saw an article today that Caldwell wasn't expecting a hail mary, and they had drawn up a defense to combat a lateral style play. But thankfully they had the sidelines covered...
I can understand that strategy in theory, but the real issue was that there was no secondary read for the sideline defenders. IOW, once they read that it's going to be a Hail Mary, they either need to rush the QB or drop back to the goal line. Instead, the Lions basically played with 9 defenders on the most important play of the game.
This game could either be a springboard for an underachieving team or it'll be a flukish win against a bad team.
-
I don't think that facemask penalty was borderline at all. The defensive player had his hand there and gave it enough of a tug to make it pretty obvious, especially to a ref standing about 10 feet away. It was an easy, obvious call.
FWIW, I am agnostic on both the Packers and Lions. Couldn't care if either of them ever wins or loses a game (unless they are playing my Panthers).
-
I don't think that facemask penalty was borderline at all. The defensive player had his hand there and gave it enough of a tug to make it pretty obvious, especially to a ref standing about 10 feet away. It was an easy, obvious call.
Lol.
Agree to disagree.
-
I don't think that facemask penalty was borderline at all. The defensive player had his hand there and gave it enough of a tug to make it pretty obvious, especially to a ref standing about 10 feet away. It was an easy, obvious call.
Correct. Had it been called in the second quarter, nobody would even remember it. Only reason its getting attention is because of the circumstances - obviously. QBs are protected to a fault, but that same call absolutely would have been made in the second quarter. Head turned on the play. Gonna draw a flag every time. You can argue whether or not it should be, but it's going to be.
-
Correct. Had it been called in the second quarter, nobody would even remember it. Only reason its getting attention is because of the circumstances - obviously. QBs are protected to a fault, but that same call absolutely would have been made in the second quarter. Head turned on the play. Gonna draw a flag every time. You can argue whether or not it should be, but it's going to be.
Personally, I don't think it should have been called...because I wanted the Packers to lose.
-
It certainly wasn't this:
(http://cdn.fansided.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/147/files/2010/10/crouch.jpg)
But how does Rodgers end up with a chinstrap on his nose if all the defender did was grab his shoulder?
-
Here is what the rule states:
"ARTICLE 14. TWISTING, PULLING, OR TURNING THE FACEMASK. No player shall grasp and control, twist, turn, push, or pull the facemask of an opponent in any direction."
Did his thumb "turn" the facemask? Well I guess. Did it look worse than it was? Yes. Do I blame people for looking at the replay and saying it wasn't? Nope.
-
I'M not angry about the call. I expect borderline calls to go again at the lions. Rogers sold it and in real time from where the officials were, it looked legit. Not like the picked up flag against Dallas in the playoffs or the batted ball against Seattle.
-
I don't think that facemask penalty was borderline at all. The defensive player had his hand there and gave it enough of a tug to make it pretty obvious, especially to a ref standing about 10 feet away. It was an easy, obvious call.
FWIW, I am agnostic on both the Packers and Lions. Couldn't care if either of them ever wins or loses a game (unless they are playing my Panthers).
Dude, when ya gonna start believin', hey?
-
I suppose the jury is still out on whether God is a Packer fan or a Cowboys fan, but it's pretty obvious that he hates the fu@king Lions.
-
I'M not angry about the call. I expect borderline calls to go again at the lions. Rogers sold it and I. Real time from where the officials were, it looked legit. Not like the picked up flag against Dallas in the playoffs or the batted ball against Seattle.
A coworker just asked me if I could remember the Lions being the beneficiary of a borderline call that swung a game to their favor. I could not.
Any suggestions?
-
BTW, I kind of like salty Mike McCarthy:
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14287412/mike-mccarthy-green-bay-packers-makes-fail-mary-dig-least-our-guy-really-caught-ball
"I will just say this: At least our guy really caught the ball in this one," McCarthy said with a small smirk. "You can quote that."
-
I don't think that facemask penalty was borderline at all. The defensive player had his hand there and gave it enough of a tug to make it pretty obvious, especially to a ref standing about 10 feet away. It was an easy, obvious call.
FWIW, I am agnostic on both the Packers and Lions. Couldn't care if either of them ever wins or loses a game (unless they are playing my Panthers).
It was borderline 82. But in real time it appeared certain. And there's no doubt that the defender at least brushed it. Star QBs will almost always get that call as the league suffers terribly when they get hurt. It was a foolish play and the defender immediately knew it.
-
One more quick thing. It was a brilliant throw that very few QBs in history could have made. Now there's others who might get it that far, but not lofting it like a punt to give the receivers a realistic chance to catch it. If we exclude 'precision' throws (super tight window, etc.) that might be the best long throw I have ever seen. It is exactly comparable, distance wise, to the Flutie Miracle (also launched from the 37) but was actually a much better throw because of the extreme loft with a greater chance at success once it left ARodg's hand.
-
I was expecting a hail Mary (as opposed to Caldwell) so I was surprised to see Calvin Johnson wasn't in there for defense. Would that have been the right play in that situation?
-
The right play in that situation is to rush at least 5 (I'd rush 6). You have to give a QB as little time as possible. Especially against an o-line that was literally down to their last guy, I would have brought the house, and taken my chances with man coverage on a half second opportunity to throw the ball.
-
One more quick thing. It was a brilliant throw that very few QBs in history could have made. Now there's others who might get it that far, but not lofting it like a punt to give the receivers a realistic chance to catch it. If we exclude 'precision' throws (super tight window, etc.) that might be the best long throw I have ever seen. It is exactly comparable, distance wise, to the Flutie Miracle (also launched from the 37) but was actually a much better throw because of the extreme loft with a greater chance at success once it left ARodg's hand.
I understand that Rodgers can do no wrong in the eyes of Packer fans, but let's not get carried away here. Between college football and the NFL, we see 2-3 similar plays every year.
-
I understand that Rodgers can do no wrong in the eyes of Packer fans, but let's not get carried away here. Between college football and the NFL, we see 2-3 similar plays every year.
Plays? Yes. That throw? No way. Name 3 other guys in the league that can do that...reverse field, outrun pursuit, then absolutely uncork one like he did. Cam Newton, most likely. Cutler maybe? Luck, he could get away, doubt he's got the arm to pull off the throw.
EDIT: https://www.instagram.com/p/-23JkXJnKl/
-
The right play in that situation is to rush at least 5 (I'd rush 6). You have to give a QB as little time as possible. Especially against an o-line that was literally down to their last guy, I would have brought the house, and taken my chances with man coverage on a half second opportunity to throw the ball.
At least don't have a few guys hanging around the 40 yard line doing nothing. When was the last time you saw a Hail Mary where you only rushed three and the offense still had as many guys in the end zone as the defense? That was brutal defense.
-
Plays? Yes. That throw? No way. Name 3 other guys in the league that can do that...reverse field, outrun pursuit, then absolutely uncork one like he did. Cam Newton, most likely. Cutler maybe? Luck, he could get away, doubt he's got the arm to pull off the throw.
EDIT: https://www.instagram.com/p/-23JkXJnKl/
I'm willing to be there's at least 10 starting NFL qbs who could throw the ball 65 yards at that height with a running start. Maybe I'm overestimating arm strength though.
-
I understand that Rodgers can do no wrong in the eyes of Packer fans, but let's not get carried away here. Between college football and the NFL, we see 2-3 similar plays every year.
Please. Point to specific nearly 70 yard Hail Mary throws into the endzone on the final play. No run and catch. No broken tackles. Flutie in 1984 is routinely considered the best. Rodgers throw last night was better.
Here's what was put together as the 'all-time' list. There's a couple in the same league. Most aren't. They're either in the 50 yard range, involve a run and catch, etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywcD94gqxQM
-
I'm willing to be there's at least 10 starting NFL qbs who could throw the ball 65 yards at that height with a running start. Maybe I'm overestimating arm strength though.
The arm to make the throw? I'll give you more than 3, not ready to say 10. There definitely aren't 10 guys with the ability to escape like he did AND make the throw. Which is what I originally said. I'd bet on that.
-
The arm to make the throw? I'll give you more than 3, not ready to say 10. There definitely aren't 10 guys with the ability to escape like he did AND make the throw. Which is what I originally said. I'd bet on that.
Not knowing arm strengths...
Rodgers, Cutler, Newton, Winston, Mariotta, Taylor, Dalton, Roethlisberger, Rivers, Carr, Stafford, Bridgewater, Wilson, Kaepernick, RG3, Manziel, Manuel.
I feel confident those guys could all escape. Pending arm strength, most could throw the ball 65 yards at that height with a running start.
-
Not knowing arm strengths...
Rodgers, Cutler, Newton, Winston, Mariotta, Taylor, Dalton, Roethlisberger, Rivers, Carr, Stafford, Bridgewater, Wilson, Kaepernick, RG3, Manziel, Manuel.
I feel confident those guys could all escape. Pending arm strength, most could throw the ball 65 yards at that height with a running start.
Theoretically could and actually have are two different things, my friend.
-
Not knowing arm strengths...
Rodgers, Cutler, Newton, Winston, Mariotta, Taylor, Dalton, Roethlisberger, Rivers, Carr, Stafford, Bridgewater, Wilson, Kaepernick, RG3, Manziel, Manuel.
I feel confident those guys could all escape. Pending arm strength, most could throw the ball 65 yards at that height with a running start.
I'm sure every NFL QB can throw the ball at that height, but how many could land it in the end zone from 60 yards out?
Ever play slow pitch softball? If you're only throwing the ball 4-5 feet over the batter's head, it's pretty easy for the average beer league pitcher to hit the plate once out of every 2-3 tries. However, if one were to loft the ball 20 feet over the batter's head, that same average beer league pitcher hits the plate once out of every dozen tries, if he's lucky.
-
Theoretically could and actually have are two different things, my friend.
Well, my task was to find QBs with "the ability to escape and make that throw". So, "could" is perfectly acceptable.
-
Plays? Yes. That throw? No way. Name 3 other guys in the league that can do that...reverse field, outrun pursuit, then absolutely uncork one like he did. Cam Newton, most likely. Cutler maybe? Luck, he could get away, doubt he's got the arm to pull off the throw.
EDIT: https://www.instagram.com/p/-23JkXJnKl/
It was a great play, no doubt, but a lot of current NFL QBs (both starters and back-ups) could make that throw.
I'm just happy that Rodgers couldn't complete an 8-yarder (in 4 tries) last Thursday night ;)
-
A coworker just asked me if I could remember the Lions being the beneficiary of a borderline call that swung a game to their favor. I could not.
Any suggestions?
Well, there was Calvin Johnson's touchdown catch against the Bears..... no. Wait. Ummmm. There probably are, but nobody remembers when something good happens to a 5-11 team.
-
It certainly wasn't this:
(http://cdn.fansided.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/147/files/2010/10/crouch.jpg)
But how does Rodgers end up with a chinstrap on his nose if all the defender did was grab his shoulder?
here's the million $$ question-if this were the canadian league, which i just found out, can review penalties-would this one have been reversed if the nfl had the same??
-
the easy answer id NO b/c it was the lions, but yes if we were playing the seahawks
-
here's the million $$ question-if this were the canadian league, which i just found out, can review penalties-would this one have been reversed if the nfl had the same??
Depends on whether the NFL hates the fu@king Lions as much as God does.
-
I doubt it would be over turned by review. His hand was up there, it made contact with the facemask. Is there still a distinction between 5 and 15 yard facemask penalties? If so, I can see it not being a personal foul. But it wouldn't be overturned with the game being over.
-
I doubt it would be over turned by review. His hand was up there, it made contact with the facemask. Is there still a distinction between 5 and 15 yard facemask penalties? If so, I can see it not being a personal foul. But it wouldn't be overturned with the game being over.
Agreed... looked like more of the 5-yard flavor, in which case, the game still continues and we probably would be talking about a 71-yd Hail Mary instead.
-
In the NFL, there is only a 15 yard penalty. College still has the 5/15 distinction.
-
This is the most epic video of the play - complete with Lion Superfan reaction:
http://www.barstoolsports.com/boston/live-look-at-the-final-play-that-may-have-broken-my-new-friends-detroit-don-and-superfan/
-
This is the most epic video of the play - complete with Lion Superfan reaction:
http://www.barstoolsports.com/boston/live-look-at-the-final-play-that-may-have-broken-my-new-friends-detroit-don-and-superfan/
I love BigCat
-
Agreed... looked like more of the 5-yard flavor, in which case, the game still continues and we probably would be talking about a 71-yd Hail Mary instead.
Because Rogers would have been wide open at the 5 and then walked in. This is why I am not that ticked about the penalty. There are many ways to defend a Hail Mary. Detroit made the worst possible tactical decision. Even as bad as it was, if they had been able to perform the simple act of being somewhere near the receiver 60+ yards downfield with a ball that was in the air for several seconds, they probably could have done what any remotely non-snakebit team would have done..... knocked it down. But it is the Lions, they had those sidelines guarded 20 yards downfield, allowed AR to get a running start for his throw, and lost track of a really big guy in the middle of the field in the end zone. Like on AR's touchdown scramble, when they face guarded the hell out of those stationary receivers while AR ran 20 yards untouched.
Just the Lions being the Lions. Inventing a way to lose that no one has seen before.
-
I'm sure every NFL QB can throw the ball at that height, but how many could land it in the end zone from 60 yards out?
Ever play slow pitch softball? If you're only throwing the ball 4-5 feet over the batter's head, it's pretty easy for the average beer league pitcher to hit the plate once out of every 2-3 tries. However, if one were to loft the ball 20 feet over the batter's head, that same average beer league pitcher hits the plate once out of every dozen tries, if he's lucky.
Unlimited arc limits are brutal. That being said, I'm a pretty good 16" pitcher.
Just from an athletic ability standpoint I think Cam, Cutler, Jameis, Big Ben and Brady can make that throw. I'm only throwing Brady in there just because hes Tom Brady.
-
Just from an athletic ability standpoint I think Cam, Cutler, Jameis, Big Ben and Brady can make that throw. I'm only throwing Brady in there just because hes Tom Brady.
How is everyone forgetting Michael Vick? He could do that in his sleep, even at this point in his career.
-
How is everyone forgetting Michael Vick? He could do that in his sleep, even at this point in his career.
Heck, the guy can throw a dog that far!
-
Heck, the guy can throw a dog that far!
i just spit my coffee all over my screen-thanks! sonuva...that was good
-
I guess Rodgers & Rodgers sort of practiced the Hail Mary play during warm ups. From the Detroit Free Press:
Either way, the play came off so easy, it looked like the Packers had practiced it before the game.
And here’s the crazy part: They actually did.
Before the game, Aaron Rodgers was messing around, lofting high passes into the end zone to Richard Rodgers.
“Usually, it doesn’t go that high in practice,” Richard Rodgers said. “But before the game, he was throwing it that high. I dropped the first one and caught the next two.”
Seriously. They practiced it in warm-ups.
For the first time ever. Perfecting a miracle.
Of course, they did.
“It was pretty ironic,” Richard Rodgers said. “It was pretty weird. We were just messing around. He just threw three of them, really high up to the rafters.”
http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nfl/lions/2015/12/04/green-bay-packers-hail-mary/76768048/
And for the record, this Packer fan thinks Cutler has the arm strength to make that throw.
-
Lacy could use a Hail Mary 'bout now, ai na? Always amazed how well athletes and celebrities can fook up prosperity, hey?
-
Lacy could use a Hail Mary 'bout now, ai na? Always amazed how well athletes and celebrities can cook up prosperity, hey?
i think you meant bloody mary-heyna? seeing as how he missed curfew last night/this morning. great timing! i thought i had a steal at $5000 on draftkings for him thinking he's due for a great game in the dome. sonuva....
-
In the NFL, there is only a 15 yard penalty. College still has the 5/15 distinction.
NCAA got rid of 5 yard designation, all are 15. Changed in 2008.
Only high school has 5 yard / 15 yard.
-
Zero question that it wasn't a face mask penalty under the NFL rules. Horrible call.
-
NCAA got rid of 5 yard designation, all are 15. Changed in 2008.
Only high school has 5 yard / 15 yard.
OK. Thanks.
-
Zero question that it wasn't a face mask penalty under the NFL rules. Horrible call.
Watch it in slow motion JayBee.
-
Zero question that it wasn't a face mask penalty under the NFL rules. Horrible call.
Obvious face mask. Right in front of the ref. Easy call.
-
Obvious face mask. Right in front of the ref. Easy call.
Heard a discussion on this. The umpire (who stands where the MLB stands) and watches the face of the QB, did not throw the flag. Either the Linesman or the Ref (one down the line of scrimmage to the QB and one behind the QB) was the one who threw it.
I'm not debating the call. But, knowing who threw it, could definitely have been thrown purely based on Aaron's reaction and not whether or not there was actually pulling on the facemask.
-
Obvious face mask. Right in front of the ref. Easy call.
Read the rule book and see if you can sincerely say this again.
-
Read the rule book and see if you can sincerely say this again.
15 yards. Easy call.
-
Read the rule book and see if you can sincerely say this again.
I agree, not a facemask, but I also understand why the call was made. In real time, the head movement by Rodgers, etc, it "looked" like a facemask. Under replay, not a facemask but that isn't reviewable under replay.
-
Well, there was Calvin Johnson's touchdown catch against the Bears..... no. Wait. Ummmm. There probably are, but nobody remembers when something good happens to a 5-11 team.
What about that Golden Tate TD "catch" against the Bears this season? They got a TD instead of an INT. That call was as bad as it gets.
-
It only took you 2 days to think of one. I knew there had to be one at some point in history.
-
Unlimited arc limits are brutal. That being said, I'm a pretty good 16" pitcher.
Just from an athletic ability standpoint I think Cam, Cutler, Jameis, Big Ben and Brady can make that throw. I'm only throwing Brady in there just because hes Tom Brady.
I don't think Brady has the arm. Throw Rivers in there though.
-
It only took you 2 days to think of one. I knew there had to be one at some point in history.
Ha! I happened to see Tate on SC this morning and it jogged my memory.
-
Yup. Just confirmation on what everyone already knew...Viqueens = pretenders.
Was actually hoping they'd win this game. Now the Packers will get the 3 seed and the Seahawks will get the 6 and come in and stomp out the Packers at Lambeau.
-
Did AP swallow his Skoal again?
-
Yup. Just confirmation on what everyone already knew...Viqueens = pretenders.
Was actually hoping they'd win this game. Now the Packers will get the 3 seed and the Seahawks will get the 6 and come in and stomp out the Packers at Lambeau.
Could happen, Seahawks getting healthy and may be rounding into form.
-
I like the Bears' front office thinking long term today - letting SF win to get a better draft spot.
-
Could happen, Seahawks getting healthy and may be rounding into form.
I would be very surprised if the Seahawks aren't in the Playoffs and I doubt that they are going to be able to catch the Cardinals, so they'll be one of 2 Wild Card teams in my opinion. We'll see if the Vikings can get the other.
Then it'll just come down to who's playing who. I think the top 3 seeds are very likely to be the Panthers at 1 (really easy schedule the rest of the way and have a 2 game cushion), Cardinals at 2 (2 game cushion plus have the Packers at home) and Packers at 3 (tiebreaker with the Vikings plus get them at home). Who knows who comes out of the NFC East? Probably the Giants but man is that conference bad. Chances are Seahawks will get the 5 seed so that'll be nice for the Packers to avoid them. Could see the Packers play the Vikings 2 straight weeks at home.
-
our offensive line is in tatters, our receivers can't get open this offense reminds me of the bart starr coaching days, run-run-pass-punt hope i'm wrong. rodgers can only take so much
-
our offensive line is in tatters, our receivers can't get open this offense reminds me of the bart starr coaching days, run-run-pass-punt hope i'm wrong. rodgers can only take so much
We'll win the division based on the fact that the division quite frankly is pretty bad. The Vikings have been able to pull out some close wins but they are not a good football team. The Lions and Bears are better than expected but are still bad football teams. To be honest the entire NFC is very weak as a whole. I mean, the Carolina Panthers are 12-0 for goodness sake. Don't get me wrong, they're good, but they are not a great football team. Them, the Cardinals, and the Seahawks are all good teams and the rest of the NFC just isn't good at all. I see the Packers as needing the right matchup (the Vikings) to win a game in the Playoffs.
-
Can't get a much more entertaining regular-season game than that Panthers-Saints game. And the good guys won!
-
Can't get a much more entertaining regular-season game than that Panthers-Saints game. And the good guys won!
good game. i thought sean peyton was going to blow a couple of blood vesels. he needs to bring his old defensive guy back-give the guys a little incentive-heyna?
-
My Vikings are beat up and have a quick turnaround for the Thursday night special. Crap.
The wonders an incorrect facemask penalty can do! Congrats!
I look forward to the playoffs and reppin the NFC once again! SKOL VIKINGS!!!!!!!!!
-
Antonio Brown wins "Most Humorous" celebration award for the season.
-
good game. i thought sean peyton was going to blow a couple of blood vesels. he needs to bring his old defensive guy back-give the guys a little incentive-heyna?
Sean Payton reeked of "desperate loser." I'd feel sorry for him if he wasn't such a whiny sack of shyte. Talk about a guy living off past glory.
-
My Vikings are beat up and have a quick turnaround for the Thursday night special. Crap.
The wonders an incorrect facemask penalty can do! Congrats!
I look forward to the playoffs and reppin the NFC once again! SKOL VIKINGS!!!!!!!!!
Certainly have their challenges down the stretch. I see them losing at least 2. Had the Bears won yesterday......
-
Yes, order has been restored in the NFC North, and things more than likely to end up just as expected. What happens in the playoffs however, I have no idea.
-
I think the Packers and Vikings both finish 2-2. Green Bay beats them on the last Sunday to get the division. Seattle goes 3-1 so there will be a Packers / Vikings rematch in Lambeau first week of the playoffs.
-
I think the Packers and Vikings both finish 2-2. Green Bay beats them on the last Sunday to get the division. Seattle goes 3-1 so there will be a Packers / Vikings rematch in Lambeau first week of the playoffs.
Who do you have as the Packers 2nd loss? At Arizona and...at Oakland? Oakland is pretty bad, but the 2nd best left. Then again, the Packers have lost at home to the Bears and Lions, so it's certainly possible.
I could also see the Vikings losing to one of the Bears or Giants, especially since the Giants will be playing for just as much as the Vikings will be.
-
Yes. Oakland.
-
Personally, I think the Packers have a better chance of going 4-0 or 0-4 than 2-2... it's either going to be an explosion or implosion, i.e. whether it's ridiculously awesome or horribly painful, you just won't be able to turn away.
-
Personally, I think the Packers have a better chance of going 4-0 or 0-4 than 2-2... it's either going to be an explosion or implosion, i.e. whether it's ridiculously awesome or horribly painful, you just won't be able to turn away.
I think it's 3-1, but I don't think any of the 3 wins will be great football by the Packers. We play 3 bad teams and 1 really good team on the road.
-
Personally, I think the Packers have a better chance of going 4-0 or 0-4 than 2-2... it's either going to be an explosion or implosion, i.e. whether it's ridiculously awesome or horribly painful, you just won't be able to turn away.
You're not lying. Certainly possible. I think we'll know more after Dallas.
-
We'll win the division based on the fact that the division quite frankly is pretty bad. The Vikings have been able to pull out some close wins but they are not a good football team. The Lions and Bears are better than expected but are still bad football teams. To be honest the entire NFC is very weak as a whole. I mean, the Carolina Panthers are 12-0 for goodness sake. Don't get me wrong, they're good, but they are not a great football team. Them, the Cardinals, and the Seahawks are all good teams and the rest of the NFC just isn't good at all. I see the Packers as needing the right matchup (the Vikings) to win a game in the Playoffs.
And the AFC is? Pats, Bengals and Denver...all have holes...I think on a neutral field both the Cards and Panthers would be favored against those three.
-
And the AFC is? Pats, Bengals and Denver...all have holes...I think on a neutral field both the Cards and Panthers would be favored against those three.
Personally I would be very surprised to see anything other than a Patriots over Cardinals Super Bowl, barring further significant injury to either team (and assuming Gronk is back fully healthy, which I think is a very safe assumption).
When the Playoffs roll around, I think we'll see the Patriots a step above the Cardinals and Bengals, with the Broncos, Panthers, and Seahawks a level below those 2. The only dark horses that I could see breaking into this group are the Chiefs or the Steelers.
-
Panthers 19-0.
-
Panthers 19-0.
18-1*
-
18-1*
Yeah, I suppose they could rest a bunch of guys in their regular-season finale and lose to a determined Tampa team before they then go 3-0 in a playoff run capped by the Super Bowl triumph. I'd be OK with that.
-
Yeah, I suppose they could rest a bunch of guys in their regular-season finale and lose to a determined Tampa team before they then go 3-0 in a playoff run capped by the Super Bowl triumph. I'd be OK with that.
Sorry I was referring to this
http://deadspin.com/the-best-and-dumbest-meme-is-unfolding-on-the-panthers-1740596866
Which is equal parts hilarious and stupid
-
Sorry I was referring to this
http://deadspin.com/the-best-and-dumbest-meme-is-unfolding-on-the-panthers-1740596866
Which is equal parts hilarious and stupid
More equally stupid, methinks.
-
Theodore loves to take sacks in moments that he absolutely cannot take a sack.
-
Theodore loves to take sacks in moments that he absolutely cannot take a sack.
And by "Theodore loves to take sacks in moments that he absolutely cannot take a sack," I mean, "Theodore LOVES to take sacks in moments he absolutely cannot take a sack!"
-
I love Mike Zimmer, but that was not his finest hour.
-
I love Mike Zimmer, but that was not his finest hour.
I don't know much about Mike Zimmer, and I don't watch many Vikings games anymore, but I was amazed he (or the O.C.) had Bridgewater attempt a conventional dropback pass on that play.
There were 3 things the Vikes couldn't afford: a sack, a turnover or a receiver catching the ball and staying inbounds. So either you try an extremely quick sideline pass, you roll Bridgewater out with instructions to throw it away at the first hint of trouble or you say screw it and kick the FG right there.
-
I don't know much about Mike Zimmer, and I don't watch many Vikings games anymore, but I was amazed he (or the O.C.) had Bridgewater attempt a conventional dropback pass on that play.
There were 3 things the Vikes couldn't afford: a sack, a turnover or a receiver catching the ball and staying inbounds. So either you try an extremely quick sideline pass, you roll Bridgewater out with instructions to throw it away at the first hint of trouble or you say screw it and kick the FG right there.
I'd even take "extremely quick sideline pass" out of the equation. Best case, you make a 48-yard FG into a 43-yarder for a kicker who's 6-7 from 40-49 on the season. Not worth the risk, IMO.
Roll him out and hope for a blown coverage and a gift TD for the win, or (more likely) he chucks it out of bounds and a few more seconds tick off the clock.
-
Seahawks get an early Christmas gift...
Twitter Tracker
Jeff ZrebiecVerified account @jeffzrebiecsun 4h4 hours ago
Matt Schaub remains out of practice for Ravens, further increasing likelihood that Jimmy Clausen starts Sunday vs. Seattle.
-
Seahawks get an early Christmas gift...
Twitter Tracker
Could he become the first QB to get shutout in two games for two different teams against the same opponent?
We could witness history!
-
I don't know much about Mike Zimmer, and I don't watch many Vikings games anymore, but I was amazed he (or the O.C.) had Bridgewater attempt a conventional dropback pass on that play.
There were 3 things the Vikes couldn't afford: a sack, a turnover or a receiver catching the ball and staying inbounds. So either you try an extremely quick sideline pass, you roll Bridgewater out with instructions to throw it away at the first hint of trouble or you say screw it and kick the FG right there.
The cool thing about the Vikings is that you can count on them for those total bonehead moves every once in a while. Sometimes it's a terrible play call, other times inexcusable penalties, and others questionable execution. And they get bonus entertainment points for having them at key moments in important games. There was last night, of course, but two others merit special mention:
1. In Favre's first season with them, they got to the NFC Championship game against New Orleans. They were tied late and driving for a late game-winning FG. They had 3rd and 10 at the 33 (FG range in the dome) when they got flagged for having 12 men on the field (oof!). Mistake #1. Then on 3rd and 15 on the 38 (still the fringe of FG range) and with timeouts left so they could run a conservative play, they called a rollout pass. Debatable, but mistake #2. And on the rollout, Favre had endless green in front of him...but instead threw a pass...which was intercepted. Mistake #3. NO won the coin toss and got a game-winning FG before MN ever saw the ball again.
2. In Randy Moss' rookie year, they had one of the best offenses in NFL history and hosted Atlanta in the NFC Championship game. The game was tied late, and the Vikings' high-powered offense got the ball with a chance to win. But in a move that not even the Onion could have predicted, Dennis Green told Randall Cunningham to take a knee. Seriously. We never got to see what the Vikings offense might have done on that last drive (did I mention they were one of the best ever?). Instead, Green chose to take the 50-50 shot of a coin toss. Atlanta won the coin toss and got a game-winning FG before the MN offense ever saw the ball again. And did I mention that this offense was one of the best ever?
Every team lays a big one every once in a while, but the Vikings' tendency to do it repeatedly in key moments is unprecedented.
-
The cool thing about the Vikings is that you can count on them for those total bonehead moves every once in a while. Sometimes it's a terrible play call, other times inexcusable penalties, and others questionable execution. And they get bonus entertainment points for having them at key moments in important games. There was last night, of course, but two others merit special mention:
1. In Favre's first season with them, they got to the NFC Championship game against New Orleans. They were tied late and driving for a late game-winning FG. They had 3rd and 10 at the 33 (FG range in the dome) when they got flagged for having 12 men on the field (oof!). Mistake #1. Then on 3rd and 15 on the 38 (still the fringe of FG range) and with timeouts left so they could run a conservative play, they called a rollout pass. Debatable, but mistake #2. And on the rollout, Favre had endless green in front of him...but instead threw a pass...which was intercepted. Mistake #3. NO won the coin toss and got a game-winning FG before MN ever saw the ball again.
2. In Randy Moss' rookie year, they had one of the best offenses in NFL history and hosted Atlanta in the NFC Championship game. The game was tied late, and the Vikings' high-powered offense got the ball with a chance to win. But in a move that not even the Onion could have predicted, Dennis Green told Randall Cunningham to take a knee. Seriously. We never got to see what the Vikings offense might have done on that last drive (did I mention they were one of the best ever?). Instead, Green chose to take the 50-50 shot of a coin toss. Atlanta won the coin toss and got a game-winning FG before the MN offense ever saw the ball again. And did I mention that this offense was one of the best ever?
Every team lays a big one every once in a while, but the Vikings' tendency to do it repeatedly in key moments is unprecedented.
Hey, thanks for going into excruciating detail around two very painful moments in Vikings history while not mentioning the name Gary Anderson *Damnit!*. However, as a life long Vikings fan you're selling it short by just going back to 1998 and ignoring half a century of "wait? what the hell just happened?". Our angst goes back a generation and must be recognized.
It's also why every Packer's fan that either a) ignores everything that happened between '69 - '95 or b) wasn't a fan before '95 angers us. Decades of futility that everyone forgets. Would I trade 4 SB losses and 5 NFC Championship losses for a couple of rings over that time? In a heartbeat! But let's not pretend there wasn't a VERY long time in the basement Clarice.
On 'b'...... i know i'm hyper sensitive to this but if you lived outside of Wisconsin in the '90's you would have to acknowledge the number of Wal-Mart fans that came out.
-
Hey, thanks for going into excruciating detail around two very painful moments in Vikings history while not mentioning the name Gary Anderson *Damnit!*. However, as a life long Vikings fan you're selling it short by just going back to 1998 and ignoring half a century of "wait? what the hell just happened?". Our angst goes back a generation and must be recognized.
It's also why every Packer's fan that either a) ignores everything that happened between '69 - '95 or b) wasn't a fan before '95 angers us. Decades of futility that everyone forgets. Would I trade 4 SB losses and 5 NFC Championship losses for a couple of rings over that time? In a heartbeat! But let's not pretend there wasn't a VERY long time in the basement Clarice.
On 'b'...... i know i'm hyper sensitive to this but if you lived outside of Wisconsin in the '90's you would have to acknowledge the number of Wal-Mart fans that came out.
I don't ignore everything that happened from '69-'95. The Vikings were good, and the Packers weren't. Story of my childhood. Still, both teams had the same number of rings during that span.
And for what it's worth...the Packers had a LONG waiting list for tickets way before they ever started getting back to Super Bowls. On the other hand, in 1999 (the year after the Vikings were a knee away from the Super Bowl), season tickets were readily available. A friend moved to Minneapolis that year, called the box office, and had tix from day 1. The fans sound like real die hards....
-
I don't ignore everything that happened from '69-'95. The Vikings were good, and the Packers weren't. Story of my childhood. Still, both teams had the same number of rings during that span.
And for what it's worth...the Packers had a LONG waiting list for tickets way before they ever started getting back to Super Bowls. On the other hand, in 1999 (the year after the Vikings were a knee away from the Super Bowl), season tickets were readily available. A friend moved to Minneapolis that year, called the box office, and had tix from day 1. The fans sound like real die hards....
Hence my "if you lived outside of Wisconsin" vs. a direct game attendance comparison. No question that residents of WI are more connection to their team.
-
I don't ignore everything that happened from '69-'95. The Vikings were good, and the Packers weren't. Story of my childhood. Still, both teams had the same number of rings during that span.
And for what it's worth...the Packers had a LONG waiting list for tickets way before they ever started getting back to Super Bowls. On the other hand, in 1999 (the year after the Vikings were a knee away from the Super Bowl), season tickets were readily available. A friend moved to Minneapolis that year, called the box office, and had tix from day 1. The fans sound like real die hards....
Oh, I remember. "Big Cat" Williams is still chasing Sir Francis in my nightmares.
-
Mac back to calling plays.
-
TV Question.
Since I moved to Milwaukee in the late 90s for school, we've always gotten the Bears games on TV when they played at a different time or on a different channel than the Packers. This season, for some reason, that is no longer the case. Last week, we got the Vikings-Seahawks game at noon (which was later switched to the Bears since Minny was getting blown out) and this week, we got no game on Fox at noon instead of Bears-Vikings.
What gives? When did that change? Does anyone know what the new "rules" are? I had assumed that the Bears were the #2 "local" team here so that's why we got their games when GB wasn't on at the same time.
-
TV Question.
Since I moved to Milwaukee in the late 90s for school, we've always gotten the Bears games on TV when they played at a different time or on a different channel than the Packers. This season, for some reason, that is no longer the case. Last week, we got the Vikings-Seahawks game at noon (which was later switched to the Bears since Minny was getting blown out) and this week, we got no game on Fox at noon instead of Bears-Vikings.
What gives? When did that change? Does anyone know what the new "rules" are? I had assumed that the Bears were the #2 "local" team here so that's why we got their games when GB wasn't on at the same time.
There was no Bear game yesterday because CBS had the double header. The GB/Oakland game was a regional broadcast, but instead of showing it at noon, it was at 3:00.
I think last week the Milwaukee affiliate wanted the Vikings v. Seahawks game because it looked like a better game on paper and had more impact on the Packers.
-
There was no Bear game yesterday because CBS had the double header. The GB/Oakland game was a regional broadcast, but instead of showing it at noon, it was at 3:00.
I think last week the Milwaukee affiliate wanted the Vikings v. Seahawks game because it looked like a better game on paper and had more impact on the Packers.
Thanks. I thought that there had been situations where we still got the Bears despite CBS having the double-header and when there were other "better" games, but maybe I'm simply "misremembering."
-
TV Question.
Since I moved to Milwaukee in the late 90s for school, we've always gotten the Bears games on TV when they played at a different time or on a different channel than the Packers. This season, for some reason, that is no longer the case. Last week, we got the Vikings-Seahawks game at noon (which was later switched to the Bears since Minny was getting blown out) and this week, we got no game on Fox at noon instead of Bears-Vikings.
What gives? When did that change? Does anyone know what the new "rules" are? I had assumed that the Bears were the #2 "local" team here so that's why we got their games when GB wasn't on at the same time.
I don't know who does Milwaukee cable - TWC, I think - but I watched the Bear game on channel 13 yesterday in Racine - on TWC. 13 is the Chicago Fox affiliate.
-
I don't know who does Milwaukee cable - TWC, I think - but I watched the Bear game on channel 13 yesterday in Racine - on TWC. 13 is the Chicago Fox affiliate.
Game of the week was the strange Denver-Pittsburgh game. I have never seen receivers more wide open on every play then Denver's were in the first half. Outside a fumble after a 10 yard run on their first possession they moved the ball at will for a touchdown on all four of their other possessions. Somehow those same receivers were blanketed in the second half and Denver couldn't even get first downs. That's why I'll never understand football totally. What could they have changed in 12 minutes at halftime for such a complete turnaround?
-
SKOL VIKINGS, we are the best.
-
Game of the week was the strange Denver-Pittsburgh game. I have never seen receivers more wide open on every play then Denver's were in the first half. Outside a fumble after a 10 yard run on their first possession they moved the ball at will for a touchdown on all four of their other possessions. Somehow those same receivers were blanketed in the second half and Denver couldn't even get first downs. That's why I'll never understand football totally. What could they have changed in 12 minutes at halftime for such a complete turnaround?
Dunno, but shoutout to Trevor Siemian for getting his first NFL action. Did you see the quality of the kneel down at the end of the half?
-
Charles Woodson announces his retirement. Fantastic player when with the Packers. Sure hall of famer with his name up at Lambeau.
-
Woodson is a great player but didn't play long enough for the Pack to be enshrined in the Ring of Honor
-
He played for them for seven seasons. More than Reggie White did.
-
Charles Woodson announces his retirement. Fantastic player when with the Packers. Sure hall of famer with his name up at Lambeau.
+1
-
Same old Lions. Tried to lose it.
-
Same old Lions. Tried to lose it.
Wouldn't the same old Lions have actually lost it, though?
-
Every now and then they play just well enough to restore a scintilla of hope..... and then....
-
Wouldn't the same old Lions have actually lost it, though?
Not if they were trying to lose it.
-
Not if they were trying to lose it.
That would make a great Onion story. "Team decides to lose, goes on record winning streak."
-
Yes, the Lions have played just well enough to keep a bad coach another year and screw themselves out of a top 5 draft pick. It is the Lion's way.
-
That would make a great Onion story. "Team decides to lose, goes on record winning streak."
This actually happened to the 1997 Bears. They all but tried to lose their next-to-last game against the Rams, thereby giving them a chance to get one of the two stud QBs available in the draft -- Peyton Manning or Ryan Leaf. But the Bears won the game 13-10 and ended up finishing 4-12.
The Colts, of course, took Manning and that left Leaf for the Chargers. The Bears ended up taking the forgettable Curtis Enis with the No. 5 pick. Among those still on the board were Fred Taylor, Kyle Turley, Tra Thomas and Keith Brooking.
-
This actually happened to the 1997 Bears. They all but tried to lose their next-to-last game against the Rams, thereby giving them a chance to get one of the two stud QBs available in the draft -- Peyton Manning or Ryan Leaf. But the Bears won the game 13-10 and ended up finishing 4-12.
The Colts, of course, took Manning and that left Leaf for the Chargers. The Bears ended up taking the forgettable Curtis Enis with the No. 5 pick. Among those still on the board were Fred Taylor, Kyle Turley, Tra Thomas and Keith Brooking.
The Packers finished their 1988 season by winning their last two games, including at the Phoenix Cardinals on the last week of the season. Had they lost either of those games, they held the tie breaker for the first pick in the NFL draft.
Instead Dallas got it...and selected Troy Aikman. The Packers pick at #2...Tony Mandarich. (Followed by Barry Sanders, Derrick Thomas and Deion Sanders.)
Of course without screwing up that draft, my guess is the Packers never make their structural changes with Ron Wolf...never trade for Favre, etc. So things worked out in the long run.
-
The Packers finished their 1988 season by winning their last two games, including at the Phoenix Cardinals on the last week of the season. Had they lost either of those games, they held the tie breaker for the first pick in the NFL draft.
Instead Dallas got it...and selected Troy Aikman. The Packers pick at #2...Tony Mandarich. (Followed by Barry Sanders, Derrick Thomas and Deion Sanders.)
Of course without screwing up that draft, my guess is the Packers never make their structural changes with Ron Wolf...never trade for Favre, etc. So things worked out in the long run.
Yeah, but Mandarich could really jab that needle into his keister with the best of 'em!
-
This actually happened to the 1997 Bears. They all but tried to lose their next-to-last game against the Rams, thereby giving them a chance to get one of the two stud QBs available in the draft -- Peyton Manning or Ryan Leaf. But the Bears won the game 13-10 and ended up finishing 4-12.
The Colts, of course, took Manning and that left Leaf for the Chargers. The Bears ended up taking the forgettable Curtis Enis with the No. 5 pick. Among those still on the board were Fred Taylor, Kyle Turley, Tra Thomas and Keith Brooking.
they would have taken Ryan leaf and we all know how that would have ended...he was actually worse and more expensive than Curtis, so the Bears got a pass
-
This actually happened to the 1997 Bears. They all but tried to lose their next-to-last game against the Rams, thereby giving them a chance to get one of the two stud QBs available in the draft -- Peyton Manning or Ryan Leaf. But the Bears won the game 13-10 and ended up finishing 4-12.
The Colts, of course, took Manning and that left Leaf for the Chargers. The Bears ended up taking the forgettable Curtis Enis with the No. 5 pick. Among those still on the board were Fred Taylor, Kyle Turley, Tra Thomas and Keith Brooking.
Let's not forget about why the Bears were in this position in the first place...Rashaan Salaam anyone? Probably my dad's least favorite Bear.
-
they would have taken Ryan leaf and we all know how that would have ended...he was actually worse and more expensive than Curtis, so the Bears got a pass
C'mon, man. John Shoop woulda "coached up" Leaf and he'd have been a Hall of Famer!
-
Early in the season, I blamed the OC and blocking schemes for Detroit's struggles. They are now 5-2 in the second half with a new OC and new O-line coach. If I was a betting man, I would bet that the turnaround is enough to save Caldwell's job. Unless he is completely incompatible with the new GM.
-
Packers look like crap (even more so than usual). Glad Erin is still in there.
SKOL VIKINGS! WE'RE COMING FOR THE NORTH!!!
THE CONSENSUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-
Well this thread has quieted down.
SKOL VIKINGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-
Next Sunday will be fun.
-
I'd much rather lose next week than win if I'm the Packers. NFC North title is meaningless.
-
I'd much rather lose next week than win if I'm the Packers. NFC North title is meaningless.
totally agree! i'd swap the Bears record for the Vikings right now if I could.
-
We will take the division, then beat Seattle. Is no problem bahdee!!!! SKOL VIKINGS!!!!!!!
-
It is an interesting question. If you're the Pack or Vikes, would you rather win the division and host Seattle or fall to the wild card and visit the Scalping Savages of the District of Columbia?
I pretty much always go with winning because wanting to lose is bad juju. But I understand the other side here.
-
It is an interesting question. If you're the Pack or Vikes, would you rather win the division and host Seattle or fall to the wild card and visit the Scalping Savages of the District of Columbia?
I pretty much always go with winning because wanting to lose is bad juju. But I understand the other side here.
A Marshawn and Jimmy Graham less Seattle team at home isn't that scary. Washington is playing really well too.
-
It is an interesting question. If you're the Pack or Vikes, would you rather win the division and host Seattle or fall to the wild card and visit the Scalping Savages of the District of Columbia?
I pretty much always go with winning because wanting to lose is bad juju. But I understand the other side here.
I would lose - but for a different reason. Let some guys heal.
Playing without your starting center and both starting tackles, plus both guards playing hurt and needing surgery is never a good recipe for winning.
-
If I were the Pack, I'd rest everyone possible this week. I'd treat this as a preseason game. A wild card round home game versus a week of rest starting on the road...I'll take the week off.
-
If I were the Pack, I'd rest everyone possible this week. I'd treat this as a preseason game. A wild card round home game versus a week of rest starting on the road...I'll take the week off.
I'm curious why you say this. I'd rather play a game at home than go on the road for 3.
Pack has some serious issues either way, so I don't think it particularly matters.
-
I'm curious why you say this. I'd rather play a game at home than go on the road for 3.
Pack has some serious issues either way, so I don't think it particularly matters.
I'll trade getting people healthy and playing on the road then having a home game. If you're the Pack, you're playing wild card weekend no matter what. You just flew cross country after taking a physical pounding. I'll take my chances getting guys recovered and going to Washington (has no wins against teams with winning records).
The goal is to best position yourself to win a Super Bowl, not the NFC North.
-
I'll trade getting people healthy and playing on the road then having a home game. If you're the Pack, you're playing wild card weekend no matter what. You just flew cross country after taking a physical pounding. I'll take my chances getting guys recovered and going to Washington (has no wins against teams with winning records).
The goal is to best position yourself to win a Super Bowl, not the NFC North.
First off, Merry Christmas. Hoping for a good 2016 for you and the family.
I get your argument, but I'd rather be at home, not have to travel. Get the good vibes back, have someone come into Lambeau and try to right what part of the ship can be righted. That takes winning the NFC North to do it. Certainly wild cards have made it to the Super Bowl, but they've also typically been playing good ball which the Pack hasn't. Losing to Minnesota would mean losing their last two, not playing particularly well against Oakland, and letting a terrible Dallas team hang around until the 4th quarter.
My 2 cents.
-
First off, Merry Christmas. Hoping for a good 2016 for you and the family.
I get your argument, but I'd rather be at home, not have to travel. Get the good vibes back, have someone come into Lambeau and try to right what part of the ship can be righted. That takes winning the NFC North to do it. Certainly wild cards have made it to the Super Bowl, but they've also typically been playing good ball which the Pack hasn't. Losing to Minnesota would mean losing their last two, not playing particularly well against Oakland, and letting a terrible Dallas team hang around until the 4th quarter.
My 2 cents.
Likewise, same to you and your family. Cheers to a healthy 2016.
I could be totally wrong, I don't think you're wrong, I think health is a big worry. I'd rather take my chances, and I think a mental rest is just as important for that offense.
-
Healthy or not, the only team the Pack has a shot at beating in the Playoffs is the Vikings. Which means you need a win next week and a Seattle win against the Cardinals.
-
Detroit turned a 1-7 start into a late teens draft pick. Well done. Seriously, though, Stafford is simpatico with his current OC and it has shown during the second half of the season. I don't know if Caldwell keeps his job (but if I had to bet, I would bet he gets another season) but Jim Bob Cooter needs to stick around as the OC.
-
Healthy or not, the only team the Pack has a shot at beating in the Playoffs is the Vikings. Which means you need a win next week and a Seattle win against the Cardinals.
Looks like a win will get the Packers the Vikings and a loss would send us to Washington. Hoping they can flip a switch and get some momentum going again. However, there hasn't been a lot to suggest that being possible.
-
Looks like a win will get the Packers the Vikings and a loss would send us to Washington. Hoping they can flip a switch and get some momentum going again. However, there hasn't been a lot to suggest that being possible.
Yup. Max of 2 more wins on the season.
-
Skol Vikings. Let's get this victory, the North and a home game.
-
Bears will have the 11th pick in 2016 draft.
-
18-1*
This sounds right on!
-
Skol Vikings. Let's get this victory, the North and a home game.
And Seattle.
-
Thank God Teddy is under center for the Vikings. Holy cow. Jake Ryan on McKinnon with no help over the top? At least 29 NFL QBs and probably double digit college and a few high school QBs turn that into a TD.
Queens gotta play like queens to score the football though. Packers would give up 40 yards on a fake punt.
-
Vikes with first blood. Probably should have had a td
-
Nice drive by gb. Surprised they are going for 3 m
-
who would the vikings rather play next? win(seattle) lose(packers) chit, the seahawks gave the cardinals a little of their own medicine in their backyard
i'd rather play the queens myself
-
Vikes actually playing d.
-
Vikes actually playing d.
Or they're just playing the Packers O.
-
I don't want to see this matchup again next week. We'll know at halftime, but no way NBC would broadcast this rematch next Saturday night.
-
Down 3 inside a minute, 2 MN TOs left, 4th and 5 at the 45. Yeah I get it, the offense has been so unstoppable there's no way we don't pick that up. Oh wait...
You get the ball to start the 2nd half. Stick them at the 10 and get it to halftime down 3.
-
That was a strange call.
-
That was a strange call.
Maddening. They refuse to accept that this offense is no longer an offense that can slang the ball all over the field and just throw teams out of the building. First drive of the game we commit to the run and go 70 yards no issue. Since then? Forget the run, let's slang this thing around! Happens every week. Lacy runs hard for a series then plays 3 snaps over the next 3 series.
-
Ugly first half.
-
Someone, please shoot Al Michels. Please.
-
Someone, please shoot Al Michels. Please.
Yeah. Never got the hate for Buck and Aikman. These 2 are so much worse in my opinion.
That was a Jay Cutler decision right there. But we'll go 3 and out anyways so no harm. 109 total yards half way through quarter 3. My goodness.
-
Big penalty
-
At least I can get enough sleep tonight.
Just one more week to suffer through this. The end is in sight.
Congrats Queens.
-
Neither team will win the Super Bowl, let alone another game.
-
Neither team will win the Super Bowl, let alone another game.
Nope. Your reward for winning the NFC North is welcoming a team that beat you by 30 to your stadium.
-
Not a huge Vikings fan.
Moreso, root for any team that beats the Bears. Dikta and McMahon made me anti Bears for life.
-
Lot of football tonight yet.
-
Not a huge Vikings fan.
Moreso, root for any team that beats the Bears. Dikta and McMahon made me anti Bears for life.
I can understand Ditka, but why McMahon? Dude was tough as nails and now, unfortunately suffers the consequences of it.
-
Arrogant d1ckhead back in the day.
-
At least I can get enough sleep tonight.
Just one more week to suffer through this. The end is in sight.
Congrats Queens.
Washington is really bad. Hell, my team with their 3rd string QB beat them in DC just a few weeks ago. I see the Packers winning that game, and then it's over.
-
Washington is really bad. Hell, my team with their 3rd string QB beat them in DC just a few weeks ago. I see the Packers winning that game, and then it's over.
I'm not sure this team would beat the Browns right now.
-
Washington is really bad. Hell, my team with their 3rd string QB beat them in DC just a few weeks ago. I see the Packers winning that game, and then it's over.
Calling it now, the Pokes are taking Lynch or Goff at #4.
-
Wow
-
Calling it now, the Pokes are taking Lynch or Goff at #4.
I've seen Goff a lot this year...I'm just not sure. In one way I'm glad he's coming out, our good friend my wife and I went to high school with, her son is enrolling at Cal early next week as a QB so it just helps him out on the depth chart.
http://sports.yahoo.com/smu/football/recruiting/player-Max-Gilliam-167759
As for Lynch, again....eh.
-
I've seen Goff a lot this year...I'm just not sure. In one way I'm glad he's coming out, our good friend my wife and I went to high school with, her son is enrolling at Cal early next week as a QB so it just helps him out on the depth chart.
http://sports.yahoo.com/smu/football/recruiting/player-Max-Gilliam-167759
As for Lynch, again....eh.
I actually think that Cowboys pick is prime to be traded to some team that falls in love with whichever QB the Browns don't take.
-
I actually think that Cowboys pick is prime to be traded to some team that falls in love with whichever QB the Browns don't take.
I agree with that. I also think Jerrah will f it up again, even though the last two years they drafted ok. It's the ups and downs of the previous 16 years that make me hurl.
-
NFL really gave the Seahawks a huge eff you playing the noon Sunday game.
I get that the NFL was going to stick ESPN with the worst game (KC/HOU), but why not flip PIT/CIN with SEA/MIN?
-
NFL really gave the Seahawks a huge eff you playing the noon Sunday game.
I get that the NFL was going to stick ESPN with the worst game (KC/HOU), but why not flip PIT/CIN with SEA/MIN?
Because everyone hates Pete Carroll
-
NFL really gave the Seahawks a huge eff you playing the noon Sunday game.
I get that the NFL was going to stick ESPN with the worst game (KC/HOU), but why not flip PIT/CIN with SEA/MIN?
I think they wanted both Sunday night participants to play as late as possible.
Also don't CBS and Fox get first choice of the AFC and NFC playoff games respectively?
-
I think they wanted both Sunday night participants to play as late as possible.
Also don't CBS and Fox get first choice of the AFC and NFC playoff games respectively?
They get a say in things, priority over ESPN for sure.
If the Seahawks win, they then would play the noon game in Carolina the following week. I'm not a Seahawks fan, but it seems there's options available to not have a PST team playing at 10am.
-
I agree with that. I also think Jerrah will f it up again, even though the last two years they drafted ok. It's the ups and downs of the previous 16 years that make me hurl.
Of course he will, bringing JFF back to Dallas.
-
How the eff are the Skins only favored by 1 against the Packers? Don't usually but on "my teams" but I may have to hammer the Skins with that line.
-
I'm not a student of the ELO methodology 538 uses and i'm sure, like any prediction tool, it has flaws but 538 actually has GB as a 1pt favorite and Seattle only a 1.5 pt favorite. The opening 7pt line has already been bet down to 5(ish) on the Vikes game.
http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2015-nfl-predictions/ (http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2015-nfl-predictions/)
This may be seeing the game through my doom colored Vikings fan glasses but this looks like a set up to get pounded on Sunday. Unless they can use McKinnon to get Seattle on their heels a little bit and get pressure with just 4 I think it'll be a very long game.
-
I don't see any way the Packers beat the Redskins. I really don't.
-
I don't see any way the Packers beat the Redskins. I really don't.
First time in my life, I can actually say I hope they don't....just a bad team offensively and they are very painful to watch. I'd like to avoid Rodgers getting totally creamed in the playoffs(I think he has an undisclosed shoulder injury), let him get healthy and give it a go next year.
-
Where's BeeJay, hey?
RIGHT HERE, MY BRUTHA! AT THE TOP! WE ARE #1!!!! Skol Vikings! NFC North CHAMPIONS.
#THECONSENSUS
-
Per twitter... Calvin Johnson cleaned out his locked today. Contemplating retirement. Doesn't feel 100% into football anymore.
-
Pullin' an Earl Campbell, hey?
-
Will this offseason make history? Will, for the first time ever, a former Detroit Lion head coach become head coach of a different NFL team? More importantly, will the history repeat itself and the Lions manage to lose one of the most talented players of his generation due to them, well, being the Lions?
-
Will this offseason make history? Will, for the first time ever, a former Detroit Lion head coach become head coach of a different NFL team? More importantly, will the history repeat itself and the Lions manage to lose one of the most talented players of his generation due to them, well, being the Lions?
Don't worry. Charles Rogers, Roy Williams and Mike Williams are all available to take Megatron's place.
Interesting note regarding coaching hires...The last Bears' coordinator to leave the team for a head coaching position was Buddy Ryan in 1986.
-
Will this offseason make history? Will, for the first time ever, a former Detroit Lion head coach become head coach of a different NFL team?
Darryl Rogers is still alive???
-
Don't worry. Charles Rogers, Roy Williams and Mike Williams are all available to take Megatron's place.
Interesting note regarding coaching hires...The last Bears' coordinator to leave the team for a head coaching position was Buddy Ryan in 1986.
Ron Rivera?
-
Ron Rivera?
Rivera went to San Diego as DC after being fired by the Bears.
-
Heard Roy Rogers may be a Lion, hey?
-
4 team money line parlay: Chiefs, Steelers, Minny, and the Pack, pays about 15-1.
You are welcome.
-
4 team money line parlay: Chiefs, Steelers, Minny, and the Pack, pays about 15-1.
You are welcome.
You got about half of them.
-
4 team money line parlay: Chiefs, Steelers, Minny, and the Pack, pays about 15-1.
You are welcome.
You taking action against that? If yes, sign me up now.
-
You taking action against that? If yes, sign me up now.
+1.
-
And Lovie gets the boot after only two years...mediocrity not rewarded in Tampa
-
How the eff are the Skins only favored by 1 against the Packers? Don't usually but on "my teams" but I may have to hammer the Skins with that line.
I'm shocked the Skins are favored at all.
-
The Redskins have played 3 games this year against winning teams and lost all of them by a combined 60+ points? Is that true? Not surprising, but yikes. Hell, even my Cowboys with Matt friggin Cassell beat them in DC. Packers roll.
-
The Redskins have played 3 games this year against winning teams and lost all of them by a combined 60+ points? Is that true? Not surprising, but yikes. Hell, even my Cowboys with Matt friggin Cassell beat them in DC. Packers roll.
i would love for you to be right, but the redskins lost some ugly ones early in the season. cousins has a better qb rating than rodgers, our O-line is beat up, no deep threat, if lacy makes curfew, he could be ok. i wish they would play crockett a little more. even if the pack wins, it will just prolong the agony unless abederis can reach in to his inner jordy nelson and our defense isn't on the field for 70% of the time
-
Bye bye Adam. We hardly knew ye.
-
Was rooting for Cincy, until witnessing all their classless actions (including fans throwing things at an injured player). Not sure if that's on Lewis for his team being out of control and throwing the game, or the GM for bringing in so many players with troublesome history, but after that it might be time for a shakeup in that organization.
-
Was rooting for Cincy, until witnessing all their classless actions (including fans throwing things at an injured player). Not sure if that's on Lewis for his team being out of control and throwing the game, or the GM for bringing in so many players with troublesome history, but after that it might be time for a shakeup in that organization.
It's on Lewis for keeping guys like Burfict and Jones on the team.
That could easily have been a paralyzing hit on Antonio Brown. Hopefully it will be a long, long, suspension. He has a history of dirty play.
-
End of that game was...interesting.
-
(http://d2s3dt9f4iyeup.cloudfront.net/images/standard_v1/5bef57cd-7f07-4270-98d4-7ad3d88e3c31.jpg)
Bad omen, the horn broke in the cold
-
Ummmm...skol.
-
That's as gut wrenching a loss as I think I've ever seen. 27 yards...
-
Ummmm...skol.
really didn't want the SeaRats to win, but man. Hard not to like the Queens going down hard either.
-
Laces out
-
Laces out,
Dan Jeff.
-
Wow.
-
Lol
-
Lol
Reminded me of Vikings fans watching the Packers last game last year.
-
Even though I lost, I stand by my parlay. Seattle is a fraud. Go Pack.
-
That's as gut wrenching a loss as I think I've ever seen. 27 yards...
Yeah, I would argue that last year's Packer loss in the playoffs to the Seahawks was pretty gut-wrenching.
-
Coaches seldom lose big games. Players do.
Hill, Burfict and Pac-man last night. Walsh and Munnerlyn today. All just terrible individual plays.
-
Snipers at msp looking for Walsh. :o
-
Snipers at msp looking for Walsh. :o
Blame the holder
-
After watching the Bengals last night and the Vikings today, the Lions are amazed that there were two ways to lose they hadn't thought of.
-
Coaches seldom lose big games. Players do.
Hill, Burfict and Pac-man last night. Walsh and Munnerlyn today. All just terrible individual plays.
Agree that Walsh and Munnerlyn choked on individual plays - but not even in the same discussion as Burfict and Jones. Yips vs. out of control poor sportsmanship.
As a Vikes fan i kink of felt like they were playing with house money a bit today, that doesn't make it any less of a blown opportunity.
Also, I'm pretty sure I heard Chuck Norris cry when he saw an 88yr old Bud Grant in a golf shirt and baseball hat in -25 degrees.
-
Yeah, I would argue that last year's Packer loss in the playoffs to the Seahawks was pretty gut-wrenching.
Vikes at home with less than a extra point to win, Pack was in Seattle at least. Both gut wrenching, in different ways.
-
really didn't want the SeaRats to win, but man. Hard not to like the Queens going down hard either.
Exactly. Would've liked the Seahawks to lose, but it's hard to find a better outcome than (I Fumble) All Day Peterson fumbling away a playoff football game.
And anybody who thought the Packers would win this game...well, they might not even break 100 total yards. This team is a complete joke, and nothing has changed one bit in terms of trying to find answers since we started struggling...3 months ago.
-
Jordy Nelson should be getting paid way more if the offense is this terrible without him.
-
Exactly. Would've liked the Seahawks to lose, but it's hard to find a better outcome than (I Fumble) All Day Peterson fumbling away a playoff football game.
And anybody who thought the Packers would win this game...well, they might not even break 100 total yards. This team is a complete joke, and nothing has changed one bit in terms of trying to find answers since we started struggling...3 months ago.
I said the Pack would win this game, I'm not backing down. The Redskins are not good.
-
I said the Pack would win this game, I'm not backing down. The Redskins are not good.
But the Packers are?
I don't get how teams let Rodgers beat them with the hard count and quick snap. Throw in a defense of 1 high safety, bring the other into the box, and press man on the perimeter. You don't have to worry about the wideouts beating you deep. The only way the Packers get yards are on free plays. Wait for the snap and keep your same package in the game and you don't give up any yards.
-
But the Packers are?
I don't get how teams let Rodgers beat them with the hard count and quick snap. Throw in a defense of 1 high safety, bring the other into the box, and press man on the perimeter. You don't have to worry about the wideouts beating you deep. The only way the Packers get yards are on free plays. Wait for the snap and keep your same package in the game and you don't give up any yards.
Not saying the Packers are, I just think the Redskins are worse. They have literally beaten nobody all year long. They won the 2nd worst division in football. The team that won the worst division in football got smoked at home yesterday 30-0. I still think the Pack wins this game, but rest assured I am not calling the Packers good. Whomever comes out of this game, their season ends next weekend.
-
So painful. Go Skins.
-
Vikes at home with less than a extra point to win, Pack was in Seattle at least. Both gut wrenching, in different ways.
Agree, both gut wrenching. If I were a Packers fan, however, it would have been more gut wrenching. A missed kick can happen, especially in those weather conditions...a block etc. The Packers, I mean the stuff that had to happen to lose that game was unbelievable. The onside kick was like #6 on that list of events that had to happen
-
Glad to be wrong. Not that this game is over, but it looks like that goal line stand sparked the entire team.
13 minutes until the Pack are once again the last NFC North team standing. For an extra week.
-
2 huge plays that did in Washington, DJax idiotic goal line gaffe and Cousins fumble.
DJax goes in, it's 9-0, Pack on ropes early.
Washington driving, Cousins pocket awareness lacking, huge play by Neal.
-
Not terribly impressed with Kirk Cousins.
-
Packers Roll. Never a doubt.
-
Not terribly impressed with Kirk Cousins.
YOU LIKE THAT DON'T YOU?!
Glad the Pack committed to the run. Need to do that next week.
-
AZ rolls next weekend.
-
AZ rolls next weekend.
Well yeah. The Packers didn't solve their issues today. It was just the worst opponent they played since Oakland.
-
I think the Pack can hang tough next weekend. Don't like the short week combined with traveling from one end of the country to the other.
Teams have a way of figuring some things out after getting trounced not long prior. Gonna have to pound it on the ground.
-
Commit to the run and don't put your defense in bad positions and you can compete with AZ. Keep it close and give yourself a chance down the stretch.
-
http://youtu.be/e/8VNtiePbzAM
-
http://youtu.be/e/8VNtiePbzAM
Whatever this is isn't working for me.
-
It will be closer this time, but still expect Arizona to win by 7 points or more. Washington is that pedestrian. Of course anything can happen in any game, but I suspect GBP will have a tough time with Arizona's pressure. Of course, that probably means they will screen them to death.
-
I will admit that I'd rather the Panthers be playing the Packers than the Seahawks next week, so I was pulling for the Queens. But whatever. Gotta beat good teams to win a championship, and the Panthers will do just that next week, the week after that and then in SB50.
-
I will admit that I'd rather the Panthers be playing the Packers than the Seahawks next week, so I was pulling for the Queens. But whatever. Gotta beat good teams to win a championship, and the Panthers will do just that next week, the week after that and then in SB50.
If they go that far, you going? I'll be in San Jose....I'll buy you a beer.
-
So painful. Go Skins.
You weren't alone....your sisters and brothers
http://deadspin.com/poor-vikings-fans-shot-the-saddest-videos-after-devasta-1752132511
-
I will admit that I'd rather the Panthers be playing the Packers than the Seahawks next week, so I was pulling for the Queens. But whatever. Gotta beat good teams to win a championship, and the Panthers will do just that next week, the week after that and then in SB50.
Even though I told you we'd win the next time we played? 8-)
But getting back to reality, I didn't even think we could beat Washington going into the game today. But, hopefully, we'll have more than one healthy OL for the Arizona game and avoid being sacked 9 times.
-
Commit to the run and don't put your defense in bad positions and you can compete with AZ. Keep it close and give yourself a chance down the stretch.
agree with your 2nd statement, but i think this time, their passing game set up the run. in the 1st half, we threw the ball ~28 times to 9 runs approx. very UN-mccarthy-esque
-
It's on Lewis for keeping guys like Burfict and Jones on the team.
That could easily have been a paralyzing hit on Antonio Brown. Hopefully it will be a long, long, suspension. He has a history of dirty play.
The Burfict penalty was justified, the guy was in some sort of roid rage for most of the game. Football players get into a crazy zone and stay there for long periods of time in ways that I can't understand.
The Pacman Jones penalty was BS, IMO. Agree he has to be smarter than that, but what's a Steelers coach doing on the field mixing with the Bengals players? That should have been offsetting penalties. It would have been a 47 yard FGA, good chance he makes it anyway.
-
If they go that far, you going? I'll be in San Jose....I'll buy you a beer.
I wish, Chicos -- on both fronts. I wish I had the coin to go, and I wish I could let you buy me a beer!
Go Panthers!
-
The Skins basically dared the Packers to throw with base defensive sets. The move to Cobb in a traditional set w/ Kuhn at FB gave this offense a bit of diversity for a change. The Cards are built to stop teams like ours - strong against the pass and have a LB/DB hybrid in Buchanon that can line up in any set. The only chance I see is to move to 2-TE sets and let our guys try to outbody them inside. You feel good about that? Me either....
-
4 team money line parlay: Chiefs, Steelers, Minny, and the Pack, pays about 15-1.
You are welcome.
So close.
-
So close.
About 78 feet
-
About 78 feet
no way it was THAT far left!
Props to you for the parlay
-
no way it was THAT far left!
Props to you for the parlay
78 feet = 26 yards.
-
78 feet = 26 yards.
I was referring to the distance from the left post to where the ball passed, not from the kick to the cross bar.
Doesn't mean the following conversation wasn't super painful:
9yr old son: awesome for you Dad, Vikes win! (he's a Chief's fan)
Me: Still need to make this
Wife: What was his name? Tommy Anderson?
Me: GARY! and why are we having this conversation??!!? (pre marriage we watched that game together and i just left the apartment 20 seconds after the miss and didn't return for 5 hours)
*shocking miss left*
Wife: Oh s@!t! Sorry for the language but boys, move away from your Dad right now.
Me: I'm fine.....I'm older, more mature, and used to it.
-
Even though I told you we'd win the next time we played? 8-)
But getting back to reality, I didn't even think we could beat Washington going into the game today. But, hopefully, we'll have more than one healthy OL for the Arizona game and avoid being sacked 9 times.
I'd be happy to play the Pack again. It means my lads beat the Seahawks!
-
Wife: Oh s@!t! Sorry for the language but boys, move away from your Dad right now.
Sounds like what my wife told our girls when MU would lose a heart breaker.
-
About 78 feet
The Steelers win was just as improbable. Those things usually even out when you make a bad bet.
-
Sounds like what my wife told our girls when MU would lose a heart breaker.
When the ball went through Buckner's legs in 1986 to blow game 6 (Keep in mind that 10-12 minutes earlier when the Red Sox were up 2 runs with 2 outs and nobody on I pulled the best bottle of champagne I could afford on my meager salary out of the fridge ready to pop it and said to my wife of just over a year "Even the Red Sox can't blow this one!") After the loss, I told my wife I had to go, stormed out of the third floor of our rental and walked the mile and a half to Beardsley Park and wandered the park swearing my head off until I returned home around 5 AM. My wife was wondering around then what she had gotten herself into. She loves telling that story and I'm much better now about such things.
Never opened that friggin' bottle of champagne. Gave it away a week later.
My condolensces to Vikings fans. I don't think a day will go by for the rest of that kicker's life where he won't at some point remember that kick and feel a little sick.
-
When the ball went through Buckner's legs in 1986 to blow game 6 (Keep in mind that 10-12 minutes earlier when the Red Sox were up 2 runs with 2 outs and nobody on I pulled the best bottle of champagne I could afford on my meager salary out of the fridge ready to pop it and said to my wife of just over a year "Even the Red Sox can't blow this one!") After the loss, I told my wife I had to go, stormed out of the third floor of our rental and walked the mile and a half to Beardsley Park and wandered the park swearing my head off until I returned home around 5 AM. My wife was wondering around then what she had gotten herself into. She loves telling that story and I'm much better now about such things.
Never opened that friggin' bottle of champagne. Gave it away a week later.
My condolensces to Vikings fans. I don't think a day will go by for the rest of that kicker's life where he won't at some point remember that kick and feel a little sick.
CT,
Back in '86, you were just fitting in with the rest of the characters in Beardsley Park.
In the late 90's I lived for awhile near Beardsley Park also. I was about 1/2 mile.
-
When the ball went through Buckner's legs in 1986 to blow game 6 (Keep in mind that 10-12 minutes earlier when the Red Sox were up 2 runs with 2 outs and nobody on I pulled the best bottle of champagne I could afford on my meager salary out of the fridge ready to pop it and said to my wife of just over a year "Even the Red Sox can't blow this one!") After the loss, I told my wife I had to go, stormed out of the third floor of our rental and walked the mile and a half to Beardsley Park and wandered the park swearing my head off until I returned home around 5 AM. My wife was wondering around then what she had gotten herself into. She loves telling that story and I'm much better now about such things.
Never opened that friggin' bottle of champagne. Gave it away a week later.
My condolensces to Vikings fans. I don't think a day will go by for the rest of that kicker's life where he won't at some point remember that kick and feel a little sick.
I was in Indy in '78 when MU lost to Miami on the awful call against Jerome Whitehead. I was 16 years old, there with my dad and brothers. Michigan State (with a kid named Magic) was playing the second game, and I had been looking forward to seeing him in person...after a MU win. When MU lost, I just told my dad I needed to go for a walk. I suspect he thought I meant around the arena, but I wandered (alone) around Downtown Indy for a couple of hours, and went back to the (downtown) hotel that evening.
Such was the mood that, in later years, would cause my wife to tell our daughters to "stay away from daddy" after a tough MU loss.
I still get upset after MU losses, but time has helped me put it in better perspective.
-
The Burfict penalty was justified, the guy was in some sort of roid rage for most of the game. Football players get into a crazy zone and stay there for long periods of time in ways that I can't understand.
The Pacman Jones penalty was BS, IMO. Agree he has to be smarter than that, but what's a Steelers coach doing on the field mixing with the Bengals players? That should have been offsetting penalties. It would have been a 47 yard FGA, good chance he makes it anyway.
Still over 20 seconds left, several plays could have been run to make that a closer field goal.
In the end, don't fumble the ball when you just picked it off and the game is yours.
-
When the ball went through Buckner's legs in 1986 to blow game 6 (Keep in mind that 10-12 minutes earlier when the Red Sox were up 2 runs with 2 outs and nobody on I pulled the best bottle of champagne I could afford on my meager salary out of the fridge ready to pop it and said to my wife of just over a year "Even the Red Sox can't blow this one!") After the loss, I told my wife I had to go, stormed out of the third floor of our rental and walked the mile and a half to Beardsley Park and wandered the park swearing my head off until I returned home around 5 AM. My wife was wondering around then what she had gotten herself into. She loves telling that story and I'm much better now about such things.
Never opened that friggin' bottle of champagne. Gave it away a week later.
My condolensces to Vikings fans. I don't think a day will go by for the rest of that kicker's life where he won't at some point remember that kick and feel a little sick.
Back it up about 7 games when you were down in the 9th inning with 2 strikes and my Angels are about to go to their first World Series and Donnie Moore (RIP) gives up a HR to Dave Henderson (RIP). Lots of long walks for lots of fans.
-
Nothing will be worse for me than the Packers defeat in last years NFC Championship. I was in shock for five minutes, despair for another ten, and then I was good.
That wouldn't have been the case 25 years ago. I would have gone ballistic.
-
Such was the mood that, in later years, would cause my wife to tell our daughters to "stay away from daddy" after a tough MU loss.
I still get upset after MU losses, but time has helped me put it in better perspective.
A highly emotion 17 year old JWags tried to convince his dad to drive the rental car home to Milwaukee from NO in the hours after the FF loss to Kansas, then threatened to do it himself. Glad cooler heads prevailed and I saw a very good game where Cuse won the title, but I wanted no further part of Final Four weekend festivities at that point.
-
Back it up about 7 games when you were down in the 9th inning with 2 strikes and my Angels are about to go to their first World Series and Donnie Moore (RIP) gives up a HR to Dave Henderson (RIP). Lots of long walks for lots of fans.
Yup. I was on cloud 9 after that one. I was very saddened to hear of Dave Henderson's very recent passing. He was a victim of Rich Gedman and Bill Buckner too, in a way. He hit the go ahead homer in the top half of the inning in World Series Game 6 and would have been an all-time cult hero in Boston had their back-to-back screw ups not cost the Red Sox the game and the Series.
People forget the Angels had that game won in the bottom of the inning. Doug Decinces popped out to shallow right with one out and the winning run on 3rd base and the pretty terrible Steve Crawford on the mound.
-
Nothing will be worse for me than the Packers defeat in last years NFC Championship. I was in shock for five minutes, despair for another ten, and then I was good.
That wouldn't have been the case 25 years ago. I would have gone ballistic.
I'm better than I used to be. Now, I'll get it all out of my system during the game, and I'm good afterwards.
But... two games have put me in a funk that lasted for days. That game, and MU-Stanford.
-
http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nfl/lions/2016/01/15/jim-caldwell-detroit-lions/78626678/
New GM retains Caldwell to coach the Lions.
-
San Antonio Raiders?
-
San Antonio Raiders?
Color scheme works.
-
San Antonio Raiders?
Not a chance.
-
(http://d2s3dt9f4iyeup.cloudfront.net/images/standard_v1/5bef57cd-7f07-4270-98d4-7ad3d88e3c31.jpg)
Bad omen, the horn broke in the cold
ya think that might habve played a part in this? hopefully we don't look too much like this or have any reason to-vikings fans reaction as filed goal sailed left-enjoy! ;D
http://dailysnark.com/compilation-hilariously-sad-reactions-vikings-fans-missed-kick/
-
Poor Daryl Bevell, looks like all of the coaching vacancies got filled before the Seahawks were eliminated, maybe next year ya stinking badger.
-
Keep Pounding, Panthers!
-
San Antonio Raiders?
so happy we don't have to worry about Red McCombs anymore.
-
Nothing will be worse for me than the Packers defeat in last years NFC Championship. I was in shock for five minutes, despair for another ten, and then I was good.
That wouldn't have been the case 25 years ago. I would have gone ballistic.
My son and I were talking about it again last night. He asked if that is the greatest collapse I have ever seen. I was hard pressed to find one greater because of all the things that had to happen. It was surreal.
-
Yup. I was on cloud 9 after that one. I was very saddened to hear of Dave Henderson's very recent passing. He was a victim of Rich Gedman and Bill Buckner too, in a way. He hit the go ahead homer in the top half of the inning in World Series Game 6 and would have been an all-time cult hero in Boston had their back-to-back screw ups not cost the Red Sox the game and the Series.
People forget the Angels had that game won in the bottom of the inning. Doug Decinces popped out to shallow right with one out and the winning run on 3rd base and the pretty terrible Steve Crawford on the mound.
A lot went wrong. Entered the game with a 5-2 lead. Don Baylor hits a 2 run homer off of Witt. We're up 5-4, bring in Lucas who hits the first batter he faces...his first HBP in 4 years. Then Moore gives up the two run dinger with 2 strikes. Halos tie is in the bottom of the 9th and then have bases loaded with one out. Grich and DeCinces up. Nothing.
Lose in extra innings. Gene Mauch curse. Angels curse. Until 2002...I was there for games 6 and 7. Magical.
-
Top receiver out for season. Next best receiver lost early in the game tonight. Rodgers still manages to get the Cardinals into OT.
McCarthy should have gone for 2.
-
Absolutely should have went for 2.
-
McCarthy consistently makes the wrong decisions but claiming he should have gone for 2 might be the dumbest second guess ever.
-
I would have gone for two
-
McCarthy consistently makes the wrong decisions but claiming he should have gone for 2 might be the dumbest second guess ever.
The only guarantee of possessing the ball again in the game is going for 2.
Zero guarantee of winning the coin flip, of getting possession back. You play to win.
-
I don't have a problem with kicking the extra point.
-
Top receiver out for season. Next best receiver lost early in the game tonight. Rodgers still manages to get the Cardinals into OT.
McCarthy should have gone for 2.
Palmer was God awful.
Ariens, what are you doing at the end of the game throwing the ball, and then 4th and 20 defense...and then hail mary defense? Wow.
Packers played really well. Missed some interceptions as USC pro QB's continue to flounder year after year. I feel bad for the Pack, thought they had this one or certainly the opportunities. They played really well considering how short they were on the injury front.
-
I don't have a problem with kicking the extra point.
me neither. Might not have had a problem if he went for it. But I do have a problem with second guessers.
-
The Packers defense had played very well (both in this game and all season). There is no issue with kicking the extra point. And this is coming from a guy who looks for any reason to second guess McCarthy.
Health is never guaranteed in the NFL (which is why last year's collapse in Seattle is still hard to take). But if the defense is as good as it was this season, the offensive line stays healthy, and you have a WR group of Nelson, Cobb, Montgomery, Adams, Abbrederis, and Janis there's no reason this team won't be a favorite to win the Super Bowl next year. Really love the rookie defensive backs. Get a couple middle linebackers healthy and maybe draft a MLB or OLB to replace Peppers and you have talent everywhere.
-
McCarthy consistently makes the wrong decisions but claiming he should have gone for 2 might be the dumbest second guess ever.
Yeah, giving Rodgers a chance to win the game would have been "dumb." Much "smarter" to create a realistic chance he'd never see the ball again. ::)
-
Yeah, giving Rodgers a chance to win the game would have been "dumb." Much "smarter" to create a realistic chance he'd never see the ball again. ::)
If you are playing the odds, the odds the Packers covert a 2 point conversion is about 50% if you go by NFL stats.
Last I had heard, the first team possessing the ball in overtime has scored a touchdown at a much lesser rate than 50%.
-
I'm not second guessing, I'm first guessing. As soon as the Hail Mary was confirmed, line up for 2. You have AZ on their heels, no timeouts, go for it.
-
I'm not second guessing, I'm first guessing. As soon as the Hail Mary was confirmed, line up for 2. You have AZ on their heels, no timeouts, go for it.
I can understand that. And if that would have been his decision, I would have been OK with that. But the problem with the OT was the defensive breakdown. Not the coin flip.
-
I'm not second guessing, I'm first guessing. As soon as the Hail Mary was confirmed, line up for 2. You have AZ on their heels, no timeouts, go for it.
Yep. Momentum totally on GB's side, AZ defense stunned. Get back into the end zone before they know what hit them. Instead, McCarthy game them time to regroup...plus a 50-50 chance of getting the ball first.
It isn't second guessing. It's expressing an opinion.
-
I can understand that. And if that would have been his decision, I would have been OK with that. But the problem with the OT was the defensive breakdown. Not the coin flip.
Agree, the coin flip only matters if your defense breaks down and gives up the TD.
After the Hail Mary, I wanted the Packers to win that game. Had no rooting interest otherwise, but holy eff, Rodgers, multiple Hail Mary's thrown perfectly on same drive. That was awesome.
-
It isn't second guessing. It's expressing an opinion.
And of course that opinion is being expressed in hindsight after the game ended and the overtime didn't work out. Really despise second guessers. You think folks would have a little pride.
-
And of course that opinion is being expressed in hindsight after the game ended and the overtime didn't work out. Really despise second guessers. You think folks would have a little pride.
Look at the time stamp of my post. It was before the coin toss, before the drive.
Are you big enough to admit you're wrong calling me a second guesser now?
-
Look at the time stamp of my post. It was before the coin toss, before the drive.
Are you big enough to admit you're wrong calling me a second guesser now?
Mutaman admitting he is wrong......dude, you will be here all day
-
Look at the time stamp of my post. It was before the coin toss, before the drive.
Are you big enough to admit you're wrong calling me a second guesser now?
"McCarthy should go for two" : First guess
"McCarthy should have gone for two" Second guess.
-
Mutaman admitting he is wrong......dude, you will be here all day
Chico, shouldn't you be over on the political board repeating what you just heard on Fox.
-
"McCarthy should go for two" : First guess
"McCarthy should have gone for two" Second guess.
Changing your definitions (see above, where you first called it second guessing after the game ended). lol
-
Never, ever, ever underestimate the ability of a Capers defense to collapse in the Playoffs.
It means absolutely nothing that they played well for 52 minutes or that they played well for 55 minutes last year against Seattle.
He will choke at the end.
-
Changing your definitions (see above, where you first called it second guessing after the game ended). lol
Like I said, show a little pride.
(http://static1.1.sqspcdn.com/static/f/1956449/23695438/1386805668167/insurance+hindsight.jpg?token=%2Bv7sk%2FD)
-
Never, ever, ever underestimate the ability of a Capers defense to collapse in the Playoffs.
It means absolutely nothing that they played well for 52 minutes or that they played well for 55 minutes last year against Seattle.
He will choke at the end.
Packers held the best offensive team in the NFL to 20 points in regulation on their home field. And 7 of the points were on an incredibly lucky bounce. Capers did ok. Fitgerald is a great football player who made a great play. Not much coaching can do about it.
-
Never, ever, ever underestimate the ability of a Capers defense to collapse in the Playoffs.
It means absolutely nothing that they played well for 52 minutes or that they played well for 55 minutes last year against Seattle.
He will choke at the end.
Choke? The Packers held the highest scoring team to 20 points in regulation.
Nobody "choked." The Packers played a good game but we're just too depleted by injury. They lost to a really good team. The defense played very well tonight and all year. Give this team the Packers offense from any of the past 5 years and this is a Super Bowl team.
-
Packers held the best offensive team in the NFL to 20 points in regulation on their home field. And 7 of the points were on an incredibly lucky bounce. Capers did ok.
I think the history says otherwise. They held Seattle totally in check for 55 minutes last year too. Means nothing.
He can't coach when the pressure is on. His preparation for the game may have been great, just like last year, but when the game is on the line, he can't get it done. Plays soft, goes to a zone just to be safe, and turns a game into a quick loss.
It's no surprise that the two worst defensive stands were on the Cardinal's last two drives. And in Seattle, it was the last three drives.
And two years in a row, they go to overtime and they go through our defense like a hot knife through butter.
They need to fire Capers NOW for the same reason the Bulls had to fire Doug Collins.
-
I think the history says otherwise. They held Seattle totally in check for 55 minutes last year too. Means nothing.
He can't coach when the pressure is on. His preparation for the game may have been great, just like last year, but when the game is on the line, he can't get it done. Plays soft, goes to a zone just to be safe, and turns a game into a quick loss.
It's no surprise that the two worst defensive stands were on the Cardinal's last two drives. And in Seattle, it was the last three drives.
And two years in a row, they go to overtime and they go through our defense like a hot knife through butter.
They need to fire Capers NOW for the same reason the Bulls had to fire Doug Collins.
20 points against a team that averaged 31 PPG on the season. And really 17 if you take away the field goal due to the Packers turning it over on downs with 2:45 left in field goal range. The loss isn't on the defense. And it really isn't on the offense. It's on not being healthy and playing a very good team.
-
20 points against a team that averaged 31 PPG on the season. And really 17 if you take away the field goal due to the Packers turning it over on downs with 2:45 left in field goal range. The loss isn't on the defense. And it really isn't on the offense. It's on not being healthy and playing a very good team.
Defense isn't about just the first 55 minutes in a close game. The defense collapsed - almost as bad as last year.
As far as not being healthy, Cobb/Adams did not have a single game all year that could match what Janis/Abbrederis did tonight. Pretty sad.
It was an interesting experience to see guys get open.
-
Defense isn't about just the first 55 minutes in a close game. The defense collapsed - almost as bad as last year.
As far as not being healthy, Cobb/Adams did not have a single game all year that could match what Janis/Abbrederis did tonight. Pretty sad.
It was an interesting experience to see guys get open.
Right. It's about 60 minutes. The defense gave up 17 points (plus 3 that they were left to absorb from the turnover on downs). And last year if the special teams (not Dom Capers's job) just simply recovers an onside kick we take a knee having given up 14 points in Seattle.
-
Fine with the extra point kick. No problem with it at all.
Wish it would have been blocked, though.
Nice year - all things considered - for the Pack.
2nd place in the NFC North and a win against a lowly Redskins team. Good luck next year! SKOL VIKINGS!!!!
-
Cardinals won despite Bruce Arians numbnutted calls. Total head scratcher on passing when the clock was your opponent, giving Rodgers an extra minute. Macho talk post game sounds good in the press, but really poor game management, if not inept.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?s=
-
Like I said, show a little pride.
(http://static1.1.sqspcdn.com/static/f/1956449/23695438/1386805668167/insurance+hindsight.jpg?token=%2Bv7sk%2FD)
None or what was said earlier had anything to do with the term "hindsight." I made my statement BEFORE the coin toss, and BEFORE the Cardinals scored.
It must hurt to prove Chico right just to try to rationalize your error.
-
I would have gone for two
Right. If the Packers had made it, it would have been the most brilliant call ever.
If they hadn't made it, it would have been the most idiotic call ever.
-
None or what was said earlier had anything to do with the term "hindsight." I made my statement BEFORE the coin toss, and BEFORE the Cardinals scored.
It must hurt to prove Chico right just to try to rationalize your error.
That's why I have him on ignore, he's an idiot and not even a MU fan.
-
As a Cowboys fan, I got a little chuckle from McCarthy asking what a catch is last night. Yes Mike, uhm we asked that question last year as well when you threw your red flag and to this day we're not sure how a guy can have the ball, take 3 to 4 steps with the ball and then rule it isn't a catch.
The league really has to simplify things because fans are losing trust in the "process".
-
There isn't an NFL coach out there who woulda opted for a 2 pt. conversion. At least not one who valued keepin' his job, ai na?
-
That's why I have him on ignore, he's an idiot and not even a MU fan.
Better an idiot than a pretentious a--h---.
-
Still feel it was an epic choke.
They held the Cardinals to 10 points for over 56 minutes - then fell apart giving up 16 points in 6 minutes.
Combine that with the historical choke against Seattle and there is a pattern that has emerged.
Capers needs to go.
-
Better an idiot than a pretentious a--h---.
That should be pretentious bigoted a--h---
-
I have Brand and Mutatation on ignore, so it is hard to follow except when quoted. I don't understand the rip against the Packers defense that Brand is making. Capers called a very solid game. His players had at LEAST two other interceptions in their hands that they didn't make, that's on the players, not the Defensive Coordinator.
They totally stopped the Cardinals run. Kept them off balance all night and gave the Packers a chance to win. Sure, the play in OT was a busted play, but I doubt sincerely that DC called a defense that said don't cover hall of famer Larry Fitzgerald. It was a blown assignment, again on the players.
-
That's why I have him on ignore, he's an idiot and not even a MU fan.
i should have him on ignore, but sometimes i need to laugh AT someone-
i know this is saying after the fact, but i did say it to friends during casual conversation after the NFL finally came out with sudden death play-they should run it like college. that would make a damn exciting game even more exciting. what are they worried about? a longer game with more commercials $$? or pre-empting heidi and 60 minutes??
-
I have Brand and Mutatation on ignore, so it is hard to follow except when quoted. I don't understand the rip against the Packers defense that Brand is making. Capers called a very solid game. His players had at LEAST two other interceptions in their hands that they didn't make, that's on the players, not the Defensive Coordinator.
They totally stopped the Cardinals run. Kept them off balance all night and gave the Packers a chance to win. Sure, the play in OT was a busted play, but I doubt sincerely that DC called a defense that said don't cover hall of famer Larry Fitzgerald. It was a blown assignment, again on the players.
they held the 2nd highest scoring offense to 13 points in regulation-what game was he watching?
-
they held the 2nd highest scoring offense to 13 points in regulation-what game was he watching?
Actually 20 points
-
Actually 20 points
oops-thanks-wishful thinking-must have had a blackout somewhere
-
There isn't an NFL coach out there who woulda opted for a 2 pt. conversion. At least not one who valued keepin' his job, ai na?
Pack neede 2 miracle Hail Mary's to be in position to tie/win it, without their LT and top WR. Possibly never touch the ball again (which happened two years in a row now) to win.
You get one play from 2 yards out to win it. Absolutely go for 2.
Being conservative two years in a row in the playoffs will cost you your job.
-
i should have him on ignore, but sometimes i need to laugh AT someone-
Wide Stance taking a break from his perusal of scatology web sights.
-
And Bruce Arian's ass woulda been hung out to dry for passin' if Green Bay had won yesterday, ai na?
-
And Bruce Arian's ass woulda been hung out to dry for passin' if Green Bay had won yesterday, ai na?
Actually, shouldn't be no. If you follow what Arians does, he routinely passes on second downs in those situations. Did it twice this year during the regular season in exact same situation.
-
My bad, Arians did it 3 times during regular season.
-
NFL coaches play way too conservatively, most of the time. Lots of articles and analysis out there on this. Sadly, they are forced to to keep their jobs. If a coach actually had freedom to play to the statistics, you'd likely end up with more wins and more success in the long run. Unfortunately, the media and PR would sink them with hindsight second-guessing.
-
Manning vs Brady. Probably the last time.
Does Denver really have a chance?
-
Manning vs Brady. Probably the last time.
Does Denver really have a chance?
If Denver can produce some turnovers, yes. Denver will have to play ball control, time of possession game.
-
MU82, you able to breathe again yet?
-
MU82, you able to breathe again yet?
I went to the movies, it was 31-0. Came out, 31-24. Crazy
-
Glad there wasn't any shootin's at da theatre, ai na?
-
Both catches as far as I'm concerned. The NFL really needs to simplify things.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CY5dzdqUwAE-ulp.jpg)
-
MU82, you able to breathe again yet?
Yeah, baby!
Mrs. MU82 and I went to a local sports bar to watch with like-minded folks. Lots of hootin' and hollerin' and high-fivin' during the first half. A LOT more quiet in the second half, as you might imagine. The lady sitting on the barstool next to my wife was all decked out in Panthers garb and even had a Panthers purse and Panthers eyeglass case. She was sitting there, eyes closed, holding a rosary ... and our boyz still had a 10-point lead! Hilarious.
Personally, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a little nervous, but I honestly was not super worried. I think that's because the Panthers did exactly this against the Packers, the Giants and the Colts -- and won all three games. Now add the Seahawks to the list. I'd rather them just go on to win 48-10, to be sure, but they have earned my confidence through their resilience and flat-out ability.
They are 16-1 for a reason -- they're a damn good team with 10 very deserving Pro Bowl players, including the linebacker who was on the hands team and grabbed Seattle's last-ditch onside kick (three-time ACL reconstruction survivor and reigning NFL Walter Payton Man of the Year Thomas Davis).
The closeness of this victory after having held a 31-0 halftime lead no doubt will make many continue to disrespect the NFL's best team, and that's OK.
After beating the Cardinals and Patriots, MVP Cam, Luke, Davis, et al will be handed the Lombardi Trophy ... and folks will still be disrespectin'! Me? I'll just be dabbin'!!!
Keep Pounding, Panthers!!!!
-
A friend of mine who is a big Panthers fan....this is for you MU82
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/12573066_10153737232362906_3910850367901123593_n.jpg?oh=82c7f2f81538a22f51995f2bb7bb3c6a&oe=5705F226)
-
A friend of mine who is a big Panthers fan....this is for you MU82
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/12573066_10153737232362906_3910850367901123593_n.jpg?oh=82c7f2f81538a22f51995f2bb7bb3c6a&oe=5705F226)
That's one Panther pup with high intelligence and fashion sense!
-
I was surprised McCarthy threw Lacy under the bus like that yesterday
-
I was surprised McCarthy threw Lacy under the bus like that yesterday
That bus must have an enormous undercarriage.
-
I was surprised McCarthy threw Lacy under the bus like that yesterday
Hope he didn't hurt the bus.
-
I was surprised McCarthy threw Lacy under the bus like that yesterday
I think Thompson and McCarthy have one year left to show improvement. Because of this, I think McCarthy is going to be a different type of coach.
-
I was surprised McCarthy threw Lacy under the bus like that yesterday
He was pretty direct about a number of things. I liked it. Coachspeak is great during the season. I appreciate him telling it like it is yesterday. I must admit however that he gave ARodg a pass blaming 'factors'. Guess he didn't feel the need. But Eddie needed a blowtorch under his arse. He's got one shot to get that next contract. I'll anticipate a big year.
-
I think Thompson and McCarthy have one year left to show improvement. Because of this, I think McCarthy is going to be a different type of coach.
I can envision Thompson retiring being replaced by Schneider, Dorsey or Wolf. I'd anticipate that any of those 3 would want McCarthy to stay.
-
I was surprised McCarthy threw Lacy under the bus like that yesterday
He won't do it for plays on the football field.
This was something different. Lack of preparation.
-
I must admit however that he gave ARodg a pass blaming 'factors'. Guess he didn't feel the need.
Not sure how much blame belongs with Rodgers. He played all season without his #1 receiver, his #1 RB clearly underperformed, and he got sacked more than anyone in the league other than Blake Bortles. Still, he had the 9th best QBR of all regular starters in the NFL, and showed some amazing plays when games were on the line.
Curious what you expected McCarthy to say?
-
He was pretty direct about a number of things. I liked it. Coachspeak is great during the season. I appreciate him telling it like it is yesterday. I must admit however that he gave ARodg a pass blaming 'factors'. Guess he didn't feel the need. But Eddie needed a blowtorch under his arse. He's got one shot to get that next contract. I'll anticipate a big year.
Lacy can easily be replaced. Rodgers can't. Head coaches don't ruffle the feathers of their franchise QB (especially a sensitive one) if they want to keep their job.
-
Not sure how much blame belongs with Rodgers. He played all season without his #1 receiver, his #1 RB clearly underperformed, and he got sacked more than anyone in the league other than Blake Bortles. Still, he had the 9th best QBR of all regular starters in the NFL, and showed some amazing plays when games were on the line.
Curious what you expected McCarthy to say?
Nothing really. I agree that ARodg's problems were probably almost entirely due to challenges associated with O line injuries, a diminished running game and receiver depletion. All that said, he did let his mechanics slip a bit probably from being hit 100 times. He gets it. He's a pro. He'll fix it by July probably telling Olivia that he needs to go to McCarthy's Q school to 'counsel' Hundley.
-
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/01/24/report-mccarthy-fed-up-with-thompsons-approach-to-free-agency/
Trouble in paradise? How hot is McCarthy's seat?
-
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/01/24/report-mccarthy-fed-up-with-thompsons-approach-to-free-agency/
Trouble in paradise? How hot is McCarthy's seat?
McGinn's article is pretty blistering. I think they have one more year. If they underperform again, Murphy may break up the band. Thompson "retires." New GM hires his coach.
-
I guess my question is what do people want more from Ted? How many teams are consistently legitimate contenders for a Super Bowl? There is one organization that I can think of that is better than the Packers on that front and it is the Patriots. Beyond that the Steelers are about on par with the Packers and nobody else is really even close. Should Ted have predicted a torn ACL to his #1 wide receiver? By the time that happened what free agents were available? Randy Moss? James Jones? Oh wait, he did go out and get James Jones, who was the Packers' best wide receiver this year.
Should he have guessed that each week there would be another offensive lineman trying to play through another nagging injury? That his starting MLB would have a season ending injury 2 weeks into the year?
Sure, having depth to deal with injuries is important. But I would argue that's exactly what the Packers did. 10-6 and nearly going to an NFC Title game is not a bad season when you look at all the injuries.
But yeah, as the smallest market in professional sports lets just ditch what has gotten us a Super Bowl and 6 straight post season appearances to go after big name free agents. I mean, it's so successful for teams like the Raiders, Eagles, and Jaguars. No reason it wouldn't be more successful for Green Bay than what they've had the past 2 decades.
-
We will take McCarthy in a heartbeat over what we have.
-
We will take McCarthy in a heartbeat over what we have.
I used to hate on McCarthy but I actually have more confidence in him after this year than I ever had before. I think he's good but not great.
-
McGinn is a good historian, but a horrible prognosticator. Well connected with scouts from many teams, who I suspect are feeding him his current theme of Ted Thompson has "no owner to worry about/be held accountable to."
I think it's a load of garbage.
-
McGinn is a good historian, but a horrible prognosticator. Well connected with scouts from many teams, who I suspect are feeding him his current theme of Ted Thompson has "no owner to worry about/be held accountable to."
I think it's a load of garbage.
This owner is all over the exec committee members, expecting action soon. Johnny B is an MU guy, he has high expectations.
-
McGinn's article is pretty blistering. I think they have one more year. If they underperform again, Murphy may break up the band. Thompson "retires." New GM hires his coach.
This was easilt McCarthy's worst coaching job. I don't see him on the hot seat, though.
I begged an unresponding TV screen all year long to put Janis on the field. Adams was worse than brutal. Could have gone out and gotten a better Street FA to replace him - and we had Janis and Aberderis rotting on the bench all year. His moves at LT late in the year were indefensible. Barclay is as bad a tackle as there is in the league, and Sitton was wishful thinking.
The refusal to throw the ball downfield when you had nobody who could get open or hang on to the short balls was inexcusable.
The worst decision was to give up play calling and take the entire offense out of the comfort zone.
-
How you doing MU82? No scares tonight.
-
KEEP POUNDING, PANTHERS!
17-1, and 1 more to go!!!
-
Congratulations MU82. If you want me to pick you up something at the game, souvenir or something....please PM me a few days before the game.
I'm theorizing the stadium will be about 70% Broncos supporters, but that might be a little high. Many Broncos fans out this way and the sentimental pick is for Peyton. The Panthers look terrific, class of the league this year no doubt.
Very happy for Peyton in so many ways. One of the nicest guys, great families I've ever had to work for in sports. So I have a strong bias that he can some how get it, but right now seems awfully tough. We'll see. I've been fortunate that only one Super Bowl I've attended was a blowout, so I'm hoping that streak continues and the game comes down to the last 4 minutes like the other ones I've been to. Just to keep you on your toes MU82 and nervous and such. :)
-
Congratulations MU82. If you want me to pick you up something at the game, souvenir or something....please PM me a few days before the game.
I'm theorizing the stadium will be about 70% Broncos supporters, but that might be a little high. Many Broncos fans out this way and the sentimental pick is for Peyton. The Panthers look terrific, class of the league this year no doubt.
Very happy for Peyton in so many ways. One of the nicest guys, great families I've ever had to work for in sports. So I have a strong bias that he can some how get it, but right now seems awfully tough. We'll see. I've been fortunate that only one Super Bowl I've attended was a blowout, so I'm hoping that streak continues and the game comes down to the last 4 minutes like the other ones I've been to. Just to keep you on your toes MU82 and nervous and such. :)
Thanks for the offer, Chicos. I'm sure there will be plenty of "official" SB50 souvenirs here, too!
The Broncos better really be ready to play some serious defense because the Panthers are the best team in the league this season and I have a feeling they will really get after Peyton.
Peyton obviously will be the sentimental story these next two weeks, but I have zero doubt that the Panthers have the better QB and the better team. Now just gotta prove it.
It's been a fun season and, really, a pretty fun 3-year run for the Panthers.
-
Thanks for the offer, Chicos. I'm sure there will be plenty of "official" SB50 souvenirs here, too!
The Broncos better really be ready to play some serious defense because the Panthers are the best team in the league this season and I have a feeling they will really get after Peyton.
Peyton obviously will be the sentimental story these next two weeks, but I have zero doubt that the Panthers have the better QB and the better team. Now just gotta prove it.
It's been a fun season and, really, a pretty fun 3-year run for the Panthers.
Glad they won for you, Mike. I had little doubt they would. GB shut Arizona down for 55 minutes and all you needed to do was catch all the balls Carson threw - the ones that we dropped.
Conference championship Sunday is the best day of the year for football just like Elite 8 weekend is the best in college hoops.
Cam is the slam dunk MVP this year and he should have "fun" going against the Bronco's defense.
-
Glad they won for you, Mike. I had little doubt they would. GB shut Arizona down for 55 minutes and all you needed to do was catch all the balls Carson threw - the ones that we dropped.
Conference championship Sunday is the best day of the year for football just like Elite 8 weekend is the best in college hoops.
Cam is the slam dunk MVP this year and he should have "fun" going against the Bronco's defense.
Thanks brand.
I told everybody who would listen that I couldn't believe Shields dropped the interception that would have clinched that game. Palmer tried very hard to give the game to the Packers, but they wouldn't take it.
Honestly, I was glad the Cardinals won because I would have much rather gone against a choker than Rodgers!
-
Palmer hasn't been the same since his finger injury. I don't shed a tear for USC QBs, but he's been off the last month or so.
-
KEEP POUNDING, PANTHERS!
17-1, and 1 more to go!!!
good luck MU-you guys are tough! i like peyton except he beat my pack and brett back in 1998(XXXII) when holmgren had his mind on seattle before the ball was snapped. i'd love another shot at you guys-next year after the super bowl hangover is gone. looks like it will have to be in the playoffs however as i don't see you in the regular season schedule. ENJOY!! btw, no offense, but that cat sound at the games is almost as annoying as the vikings horn thingy...almost. at least it's not the tomahawk chop though-heyna?
-
good luck MU-you guys are tough! i like peyton except he beat my pack and brett back in 1998(XXXII) when holmgren had his mind on seattle before the ball was snapped.
??? Peyton Manning wasn't even in the league back then much less on the Broncos.
-
Just another example of why RS can't be taken seriously. Elway beat the Packers in 98.
-
good luck MU-you guys are tough! i like peyton except he beat my pack and brett back in 1998(XXXII) when holmgren had his mind on seattle before the ball was snapped. i'd love another shot at you guys-next year after the super bowl hangover is gone. looks like it will have to be in the playoffs however as i don't see you in the regular season schedule. ENJOY!! btw, no offense, but that cat sound at the games is almost as annoying as the vikings horn thingy...almost. at least it's not the tomahawk chop though-heyna?
copied from Penn State? :)
-
Thanks brand.
I told everybody who would listen that I couldn't believe Shields dropped the interception that would have clinched that game. Palmer tried very hard to give the game to the Packers, but they wouldn't take it.
Honestly, I was glad the Cardinals won because I would have much rather gone against a choker than Rodgers!
Don't forget that I told you a couple months ago we'd beat you in the Playoffs.
The fact that I didn't really believe we'd beat you guys - then or now - is besides the point.
-
copied from Penn State? :)
In fairness Penn States been doing that since 1978.
-
??? Peyton Manning wasn't even in the league back then much less on the Broncos.
1998 was peyton's rookie year. i still admire/respect him. i meant the broncos/elwayputting the whuppin on us. a.m. coffee hadn't kicked in yet
-
??? Peyton Manning wasn't even in the league back then much less on the Broncos.
I think he meant to say Craig Morton.
-
1998 was peyton's rookie year. i still admire/respect him. i meant the broncos/elwayputting the whuppin on us. a.m. coffee hadn't kicked in yet
Except that Super Bowl XXXII was for the 1997-1998 NFL season, played 18 years ago today (1/25/1998). Peyton was drafted on April 18th, 1998, three months after Super Bowl XXXII.
Like Sultan said, Peyton Manning wasn't even in the league.
-
Except that Super Bowl XXXII was for the 1997-1998 NFL season, played 18 years ago today (1/25/1998). Peyton was drafted on April 18th, 1998, three months after Super Bowl XXXII.
Like Sultan said, Peyton Manning wasn't even in the league.
Leave rocket alone. He was mixed up because over on the political board he had just written his 9,437th highly articulate argument on why "obummer is worster than dubya ever wuz."
-
Except that Super Bowl XXXII was for the 1997-1998 NFL season, played 18 years ago today (1/25/1998). Peyton was drafted on April 18th, 1998, three months after Super Bowl XXXII.
Like Sultan said, Peyton Manning wasn't even in the league.
Peyton also wasn't even on the Broncos until 2012 but who's counting?
I'm still proud of the '85 Bears for beating up Tom Brady in Super Bowl XX!
-
Peyton also wasn't even on the Broncos until 2012 but who's counting?
I'm still proud of the '85 Bears for beating up Tom Brady in Super Bowl XX!
Lol.
-
I'm excited to see Jake Delhomme finally get to the Super Bowl.
-
I'm excited to see Jake Delhomme finally get to the Super Bowl.
Charles Tillman is going to get a ring. Good for him.
-
Leave rocket alone. He was mixed up because over on the political board he had just written his 9,437th highly articulate argument on why "obummer is worster than dubya ever wuz."
first....i have RS on ignore for his politics board incoherent, clearly extremist, rants that you nail in the quote.
second....(i guess directed to RS) why the coherent posts at the Al and the insensible posts in the politics board?
-
Can't win 'em all, heyna fellas? But I'm rootin fer Roman Gabriel he trows a nice spiral der hey
-
first....i have RS on ignore for his politics board incoherent, clearly extremist, rants that you nail in the quote.
second....(i guess directed to RS) why the coherent posts at the Al and the insensible posts in the politics board?
That's exactly why I blocked him too. To be fair, I think his basketball assessments are very fair and pretty informative but that politics board is toxic. At least the toxicity stays there now though and doesn't leak into the superbar.
-
That's exactly why I blocked him too. To be fair, I think his basketball assessments are very fair and pretty informative but that politics board is toxic. At least the toxicity stays there now though and doesn't leak into the superbar.
absolutely! i even have myself blocked-that rs guy is a carnalizing looza when it comes to politics though hey heyna guys?
-
Skol Vikings! Barr and wad's favorite --- TEDDY BRIDGEWATER --- added to the Pro Bowl.
Good job, champion-Vikes!
-
Skol Vikings! Barr and wad's favorite --- TEDDY BRIDGEWATER --- added to the Pro Bowl.
Good job, champion-Vikes!
Haha. How many QBs had to drop out for that to happen?
I actually think Teddy is fine. Knows he isn't good, but doesn't try to be good. Unlike Jay who probably knows he isn't good, but tries to be good anyway (but Fox did his best to hide it).
Although Teddy does love fondling the ball a bit too long quite often, a'ina?
-
In a world of irrelevant all-star games, is der a more irrelevant all-star game than da Pro Bowl, hey?
-
In a world of irrelevant all-star games, is der a more irrelevant all-star game than da Pro Bowl, hey?
Nope.
-
Skol Vikings! Barr and wad's favorite --- TEDDY BRIDGEWATER --- added to the Pro Bowl.
Good job, champion-Vikes!
Jay made the Pro Bowl once - that proves you hafta be pretty good.
-
That's exactly why I blocked him too. To be fair, I think his basketball assessments are very fair and pretty informative but that politics board is toxic. At least the toxicity stays there now though and doesn't leak into the superbar.
If I took your weak azz approach, I'd have to ignore Sultan, Brandi and Vogue. They are valuable hoops posters and I would be missing something.
Muta, him I could block.
The tolerance of lefties, whatever.
-
If I took your weak azz approach, I'd have to ignore Sultan, Brandi and Vogue. They are valuable hoops posters and I would be missing something.
Muta, him I could block.
The tolerance of lefties, whatever.
Vogue has never posted anything of substance.
-
Megatron out.
-
If I took your weak azz approach, I'd have to ignore Sultan, Brandi and Vogue. They are valuable hoops posters and I would be missing something.
Muta, him I could block.
The tolerance of lefties, whatever.
I haven't posted on the Politics board in weeks, and have no plans to go back there, if that's any help.
-
Megatron out.
The Lions will now have wasted the careers of one of the top running backs of all time and one of the top wide receivers of all time. Because they are the Lions.
-
The Lions will now have wasted the careers of one of the top running backs of all time and one of the top wide receivers of all time. Because they are the Lions.
But hey, at least Yzerman and Isiah had great runs in Detroit!
-
As did Trammell and Whitaker.
-
The Lions will now have wasted the careers of one of the top running backs of all time and one of the top wide receivers of all time. Because they are the Lions.
I know. Real shame.
-
calvin would look mighty fine runnin a fly pattern in lambeau-heyna? in a green n gold uniform that is
-
calvin would look mighty fine runnin a fly pattern in lambeau-heyna? in a green n gold uniform that is
No doubt. I've said that many times. Perhaps he can use a retirement threat to force a trade.
-
(https://i.imgur.com/VFzHeUi.jpg)
-
Johnny Manziel is soon to be released by the Browns and was just dumped by his agent (which is incredibly rare).
Has production on his 30 for 30 started yet?
-
Johnny Manziel is soon to be released by the Browns and was just dumped by his agent (which is incredibly rare).
Has production on his 30 for 30 started yet?
they probably have started the 30 for 30, but they need him to go into and out of rehab a few more times, maybe jail/prison for a couple of stints after he has some maurice clarett-like moments.
if people didn't see this one coming...this had crash n burn written all over it when they were talking about his legendary drinking back in college-that was too much fun to give up for, oh...., a number of million dollars?? the dude, with all his success up to that point, still had some real self image issues, maybe even some "little man" syndrome going on. nothing a little money and alcohol couldn't take care of-eh'na
-
I keep thinking of a guy like Brett Favre through this whole thing. He wasn't nearly as messed up as Manziel appears to be (talent gap as well), but I sure do see a lot of similarities. I just think if I were Favre, having straightened my life out (twice), and having ascended to the highest levels of success, I think I'd be on a plane, or at least on the phone, seeing if I couldn't try to help this guy.
He clearly has some ability as a player, but is/has been known for all the wrong things, and heading down a path with only a bad ending. Unfair of me to suggest what Brett Favre (or whomever) should do? Absolutely. Just saying if I were in that position, I thinks I would at least take a shot at saving this guys life (and potentially have him realize some success as a football player).
-
I keep thinking of a guy like Brett Favre through this whole thing. He wasn't nearly as messed up as Manziel appears to be (talent gap as well), but I sure do see a lot of similarities. I just think if I were Favre, having straightened my life out (twice), and having ascended to the highest levels of success, I think I'd be on a plane, or at least on the phone, seeing if I couldn't try to help this guy.
He clearly has some ability as a player, but is/has been known for all the wrong things, and heading down a path with only a bad ending. Unfair of me to suggest what Brett Favre (or whomever) should do? Absolutely. Just saying if I were in that position, I thinks I would at least take a shot at saving this guys life (and potentially have him realize some success as a football player).
i agree 100%. i don't know what brett's deal is(the extent of his issues/treatments...), but for brett to do that would be not only noble, but would help brett solidify his own life at the same time. that's why in previous topics regarding substance abuse, maybe they have suggested and/or called chris herren? if chris were asked and manziel would accept, herren would jump at the opportunity to help a fellow addict