GOP Tax Proposal To Hit MU Boosters

[mu03eng]

Generally, those in red states get more "stuff" from the Feds while those in blue states get more from state government.

Why is that? Is that something that should continue? Is this good or bad?

[forgetful]

Question about the SALT discussion, why is it assumed that higher SALT states are providing higher services? Additionally, if that logic is correct should that not make that state more attractive so why should a state that is already more attractive than a low SALT state also need a federal carve out on tax deduction?

There is a reason that poverty, poor schools and poor health are much more prevalent in the states that are low SALT states.  They provide fewer services. 

It doesn't necessarily make states less attractive.  Wealthy people get different access to healthcare, pay for private schools, and then feel less of a pinch.  It is the poor that suffer from these policies. 

So the question becomes, do you think we should take care of all americans, or just the ones that have lots of money?

[GB Warrior]

There is a reason that poverty, poor schools and poor health are much more prevalent in the states that are low SALT states.  They provide fewer services. 

It doesn't necessarily make states less attractive.  Wealthy people get different access to healthcare, pay for private schools, and then feel less of a pinch.  It is the poor that suffer from these policies. 

So the question becomes, do you think we should take care of all americans, or just the ones that have lots of money?

Conceptually, "let the states decide" makes sense when you consider the socioeconomic differences in regions. One size fits isn't always scalable (unless we're talking about insurance, then people just really don't understand what scalability means). The problem is that these are often states that vote for small federal government, vote for small state government with lean services and then have to fall back on the federal government to remedy some of these discrepancies (healthcare being the preeminent example, but there are others).

[rocket surgeon]

  "When you repeatedly go about lying it hampers any attempt to take you seriously as an individual."

  was this directed at me?  not sure where the lying is as the article is from huffpo and all i did was grab a few quotes out of it to illustrate my point.  it seems people(media) squeal the loudest when the one party wants to cut taxes and play the class warfare game.  but when nearly a $trillion$ stimulus is enacted and the dude's cronies are laughing all the way to the bank-crickets?  shovel ready jobs?
  "“But the problem is,” he continued, “is that spending it out takes a long time, because there’s really nothing — there’s no such thing as shovel-ready projects."
 
 we'll put this one right up there with ya wanna keep your doc, etc etc

now this is lying

[#TheThing]

Inequality has been steadily rising for the last 25 years. It will rise under trump. It will rise under his successor. And it will rise under his successor's successor even higher.

If you equate tax cuts as economic fairness the three Presidents who enacted the largest tax cuts in modern American history are Reagan, Truman, and Obama. So they must be economic warriors, right?

When you repeatedly go about lying it hampers any attempt to take you seriously as an individual.

How are you measuring inequality? Income or wealth or some other measurement?  I'm in agreement that the gap at the very top has expanded tremendously in the last 25 years, but it does depend on what measurement and the more complex question, why is it happening.

[Jockey]

Why is that? Is that something that should continue? Is this good or bad?

Why? Because their congresspeople have gotten it done for them.

Should it continue? I think no. They should not be subsidized by high tax states.

Is it good or bad? It's good for them - bad for those of us subsidizing people who generally feel the gov't shouldn't be in the handout business.


Your thoughts?

[Golden Avalanche]

  "When you repeatedly go about lying it hampers any attempt to take you seriously as an individual."

  was this directed at me?  not sure where the lying is as the article is from huffpo and all i did was grab a few quotes out of it to illustrate my point.  it seems people(media) squeal the loudest when the one party wants to cut taxes and play the class warfare game.  but when nearly a $trillion$ stimulus is enacted and the dude's cronies are laughing all the way to the bank-crickets?  shovel ready jobs?
  "“But the problem is,” he continued, “is that spending it out takes a long time, because there’s really nothing — there’s no such thing as shovel-ready projects."
 
 we'll put this one right up there with ya wanna keep your doc, etc etc

now this is lying

i will let this speak for itself-and he(44) didn't even give us a "tax cut"


The bolded is a lie claiming that Obama didn't pass tax cuts legislation during his eight years. In fact, he passed two pieces of legislation that cut taxes.

You wrote this lie in message #60 of this thread. It is a lie. And you know it is a lie. Yet you wrote the lie because that's how you roll. I understand that now. And I accept this inadequacy.

[rocket surgeon]

i will let this speak for itself-and he(44) didn't even give us a "tax cut"


The bolded is a lie claiming that Obama didn't pass tax cuts legislation during his eight years. In fact, he passed two pieces of legislation that cut taxes.

You wrote this lie in message #60 of this thread. It is a lie. And you know it is a lie. Yet you wrote the lie because that's how you roll. I understand that now. And I accept this inadequacy.

  ok, wait...if i was wrong re:tax cuts obama proposed during his presidency, my bad and i stand corrected.  i was referring to my post from huffpo  you seemed to refer to as a lie which confused me

  one thing now, if i was lying, it was inadvertent.   ok, i'll just go ahead and say it-ignorance.  just please don't throw the term "lie" out so cavalierly.   a more political term would be "untruth, ein'a?  if i were to try to stand by my remarks re: "tax cut"-yes, that would be a form of being purposely disingenuous and provocative to say the least.   then, to double down on it would be lying i guess.  it is NOT how i roll by the way 

[Golden Avalanche]

  ok, wait...if i was wrong re:tax cuts obama proposed during his presidency, my bad and i stand corrected.  i was referring to my post from huffpo  you seemed to refer to as a lie which confused me

  one thing now, if i was lying, it was inadvertent.   ok, i'll just go ahead and say it-ignorance.  just please don't throw the term "lie" out so cavalierly.   a more political term would be "untruth, ein'a?  if i were to try to stand by my remarks re: "tax cut"-yes, that would be a form of being purposely disingenuous and provocative to say the least.   then, to double down on it would be lying i guess.  it is NOT how i roll by the way

If you are genuinely uneducated as it relates to Obama's legislative record 10 months after his eight year administration finished I suggest you refrain from posting about what he did (and didn't) achieve until your level of knowledge is sufficient enough to be taken seriously. It will also help you gain much needed perspective as to the current tax cuts legislation being proposed.

It's a holiday weekend so there's plenty of time to fill in the gaps.

[rocket surgeon]

If you are genuinely uneducated as it relates to Obama's legislative record 10 months after his eight year administration finished I suggest you refrain from posting about what he did (and didn't) achieve until your level of knowledge is sufficient enough to be taken seriously. It will also help you gain much needed perspective as to the current tax cuts legislation being proposed.

It's a holiday weekend so there's plenty of time to fill in the gaps.

Classic.  Have a good one

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Well, at least this tax plan will properly penalize those slacker grad students for all the hoards of benefits-in-lieu they get.  Education, who needs it?

[forgetful]

What's interesting is I've talked with 6 Trump supporters in the last week about this tax plan.  All agree it is horrible, but say that it has zero chance of passing so its not a big deal.

What happens when/if this passes, with only 25% of americans approving of the plan?

[MUBurrow]

What's interesting is I've talked with 6 Trump supporters in the last week about this tax plan.  All agree it is horrible, but say that it has zero chance of passing so its not a big deal.

What happens when/if this passes, with only 25% of americans approving of the plan?

Nothing. The rich will get richer, the poor will get poorer, and the 75% will continue to talk past each other. We are in a post accountability world.

[MU82]

This is a historically unpopular plan.

In polls of the day, even the George H.W. Bush tax HIKE was not as unpopular as this tax cut.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-gop-tax-cuts-are-even-more-unpopular-than-past-tax-hikes/

McCain just announced he was "in," too, so he won't be the hero this time.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/30/mccain-will-support-senate-tax-bill-boosting-chances-of-passage.html

[TSmith34, Inc.]

What's interesting is I've talked with 6 Trump supporters in the last week about this tax plan.  All agree it is horrible, but say that it has zero chance of passing so its not a big deal.

What happens when/if this passes, with only 25% of americans approving of the plan?

It seems to me like there is a high probability it passes.  There were only 6 Senators that expressed vague reservations, and they appear to be getting bought off one-by-one.  I hope I am wrong.  This is an incredibly atrocious bill.

[jesmu84]

It will pass. They will not wait for treasury or JCT analysis. Sham

[Cooby Snacks]

Incredible return on investment for the political donor class, at the expense of pretty much everyone else. Yay, oligarchy.

[GGGG]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/29/business/republican-tax-cut.html

[rocket surgeon]

the stock market seems to like it...anyone's 401k down this year?  i think the dow is up about 30% since last nov. 4.  doubt it would be up 10% if the alternative occured-oh well eyn'er?

[GGGG]

Well of course the stock market likes it.  It benefits corporations.  And yeah while I would agree that it also benefits those who own stock, much of that benefit is going to be whittled away via tax increases.

[Hards Alumni]

Well of course the stock market likes it.  It benefits corporations.  And yeah while I would agree that it also benefits those who own stock, much of that benefit is going to be whittled away via tax increases.

to add to that, 52% of Americans don't own stock.

[rocket surgeon]

guess we're just gonna have to read it to find out what's in it-'ey?  wait, where have i heard that one before

[rocket surgeon]

to add to that, 52% of Americans don't own stock.

well what the...that's no fair

[Hards Alumni]

well what the...that's no fair

Its not a complaint, I own plenty.

But you have to realize that this bill is awful for the average American, and will add 1.7 trillion to the national debt.

Sure, I'll be fine, but that doesn't mean I like the bill.  Its hot garbage.

[GGGG]

guess we're just gonna have to read it to find out what's in it-'ey?  wait, where have i heard that one before

I have no idea.  This is nothing like anything I have seen before.