Player Grades this year?

[MuggsyB]

Which players in your mind have exceeded expectations thus far?  Have any of them?  What grades would you give them vs what you expected?

[🏀]

I give all the players an A for practicing, learning, traveling and playing through a pandemic.

[DoctorV]

Really good topic Muggsy, tricky one to give out grades individually but I’ll give it a shot.

These take into account my preseason expectations of each player, keeping in mind that I expected MU to make the tournament and they will almost certainly not, and could finish bottom 3/4 in conference.

Coach: D
Let’s not turn this into yet another wojo thread. Not an F because of a few nice early wins and it seems like his guys are still battling for him. Expected much more, but mainly to see improvement from both individuals and team as season wore on, but we’ve seen the opposite

Akanno, Oso, Perez, Torrence: D
The first three haven’t been able to crack the rotation and Sy was expected to take a big step forward (started the first game of the season) but hasn’t. Unfortunately he’s not living up to his recruiting ranking expectations, even though the pass first pg skills are there. The few opportunities that Dex, Jose and Oso have gotten haven’t shown much, but there seems to be some future upperclassman upside in Oso and maybe Dex if he can harness his athletic abitily.

Greg Elliott: C-
Has had a few really nice games, and has a great attitude and commitment to the program and is a great kid. On the court he seems like a great off the bench spark/spot up shooting guard but was unable to take the next step. We all know about the injuries, he’s a warrior.

Justin Lewis: B-
Has shown a great potential has has been a part of many big moments and brought a lot of excited. Fantastic tools, hopefully he sticks around and has a great MU career. After the fiery start, and even before the season, I expected him to become the fan favorite of the newcomers. He began that way but fizzled quite a bit, typical of a frosh.

Theo John: C
He has improved his offensive game a ton, and his free throws a ton. He’s much more fun to watch on that end this year and you wish he could get more opportunities. Hasn’t quite been the defensive or rebounding dominance/force I expected though. This was his year to break out into a double/double type force and take the team physically and emotionally on his back and he hasn’t succeeded there.

Jamal Cain: B
He’s been quite better than I expected. Of course he has his inconsistencies, but he’s scored and rebounded better than I would’ve hoped. Has shown really decent offensive skills, outside of his handles, and besides some of the maddening attributes has been a big help for the team this year. Well done by Jamal.

Koby McEwan: C
Wildly inconsistent year for Koby. He had hoped he would become the man as a senior with Markus gone and more volume, but that didn’t happen. Increased his scoring a bit and had a few good games, but his rebounding and his elite defending took a step back imo. Like Theo, he had the opportunity to jump into a leadership role and really step up but hasn’t.

Dawson Garcia: B-
Highest expectations of the newcomers. Grade would be higher if I didn’t expect so much, and I know he’s a freshman but I still wanted more. Skills are there and his effort should be applauded- it’s hard to fit in down low right off the bat in the BE. A few 20+ point games but also several donuts. Should get better by the year like JL2

DJ Carton: C
Expected DJC to be the best player and leading scorer on this years team. Figured that he would have to carry the team for it to reach its highest expectations. Heard about NBA type talent and skills. He’s shown where those lofty expectations came from, mainly with his elite athleticism and exciting drive finishes, but the total package just wasn’t there imo. I expected both a better scoring punch and a much better overall handle of the team leading to more assists and easy buckets for the rest with his good vision and handle. Didn’t quite take the step forward many expected but hopefully the talent will take a huge step forward with both Dawson and Justin next season in a nice 3 man punch

Overall: C-
We all love MUbb and hope for better

[WellsstreetWanderer]

B+ on your report, Dr.V

[DoctorV]

B+ on your report, Dr.V

Thanks, but I’m used to 4.0’s...
Looks like the underperformance bug has spread to me, better luck next year

[mileskishnish72]

Well, Dr. V., I wasn't that far off on any of your grades, except I think you stiffed Theo a bit. No, he didn't become the offensive force you referenced, but he has certainly played a bigger role in the O than previously. He has also learned to deal with some of his prior shortcomings, namely, he doesn't accumulate PF's as quickly as in the past, and he has apparently worked assiduously to improve his FT shooting. Yes, he has a tendency to sometimes get out of position going for a (sometimes rather unlikely) block, but otherwise his defensive liabilities are actually related to unrealistic expectations on the part of you-know-who as to who he could be expected to cover.

[MuggsyB]

Really good topic Muggsy, tricky one to give out grades individually but I%u2019ll give it a shot.

These take into account my preseason expectations of each player, keeping in mind that I expected MU to make the tournament and they will almost certainly not, and could finish bottom 3/4 in conference.

Coach: D
Let%u2019s not turn this into yet another wojo thread. Not an F because of a few nice early wins and it seems like his guys are still battling for him. Expected much more, but mainly to see improvement from both individuals and team as season wore on, but we%u2019ve seen the opposite

Akanno, Oso, Perez, Torrence: D
The first three haven%u2019t been able to crack the rotation and Sy was expected to take a big step forward (started the first game of the season) but hasn%u2019t. Unfortunately he%u2019s not living up to his recruiting ranking expectations, even though the pass first pg skills are there. The few opportunities that Dex, Jose and Oso have gotten haven%u2019t shown much, but there seems to be some future upperclassman upside in Oso and maybe Dex if he can harness his athletic abitily.

Greg Elliott: C-
Has had a few really nice games, and has a great attitude and commitment to the program and is a great kid. On the court he seems like a great off the bench spark/spot up shooting guard but was unable to take the next step. We all know about the injuries, he%u2019s a warrior.

Justin Lewis: B-
Has shown a great potential has has been a part of many big moments and brought a lot of excited. Fantastic tools, hopefully he sticks around and has a great MU career. After the fiery start, and even before the season, I expected him to become the fan favorite of the newcomers. He began that way but fizzled quite a bit, typical of a frosh.

Theo John: C
He has improved his offensive game a ton, and his free throws a ton. He%u2019s much more fun to watch on that end this year and you wish he could get more opportunities. Hasn%u2019t quite been the defensive or rebounding dominance/force I expected though. This was his year to break out into a double/double type force and take the team physically and emotionally on his back and he hasn%u2019t succeeded there.

Jamal Cain: B
He%u2019s been quite better than I expected. Of course he has his inconsistencies, but he%u2019s scored and rebounded better than I would%u2019ve hoped. Has shown really decent offensive skills, outside of his handles, and besides some of the maddening attributes has been a big help for the team this year. Well done by Jamal.

Koby McEwan: C
Wildly inconsistent year for Koby. He had hoped he would become the man as a senior with Markus gone and more volume, but that didn%u2019t happen. Increased his scoring a bit and had a few good games, but his rebounding and his elite defending took a step back imo. Like Theo, he had the opportunity to jump into a leadership role and really step up but hasn%u2019t.

Dawson Garcia: B-
Highest expectations of the newcomers. Grade would be higher if I didn%u2019t expect so much, and I know he%u2019s a freshman but I still wanted more. Skills are there and his effort should be applauded- it%u2019s hard to fit in down low right off the bat in the BE. A few 20+ point games but also several donuts. Should get better by the year like JL2

DJ Carton: C
Expected DJC to be the best player and leading scorer on this years team. Figured that he would have to carry the team for it to reach its highest expectations. Heard about NBA type talent and skills. He%u2019s shown where those lofty expectations came from, mainly with his elite athleticism and exciting drive finishes, but the total package just wasn%u2019t there imo. I expected both a better scoring punch and a much better overall handle of the team leading to more assists and easy buckets for the rest with his good vision and handle. Didn%u2019t quite take the step forward many expected but hopefully the talent will take a huge step forward with both Dawson and Justin next season in a nice 3 man punch

Overall: C-
We all love MUbb and hope for better

Solid synopsis Dr. V.  Ty.  I agree with much of your overall assessment.  In particular that Cain is the only guy who has exceeded my expectations.  Lewis would be there as well but he has missed too many games.  Garcia has generally met my expectations and Theo has come close.  Unfortunately he has not learned the nuances of the game to maximize his contributions imo.

Now, it's your grades for our guards that are in the rotation which I feel need to be reiterated.  Because I think they are spot-on although I would probably not give anyone higher than a C-  Among all of our problems I would say this is the most gargantuan.  So the question is why?  Were our expectations way too high?  Is Wojo not utilizing them correctly?  Or are they not tier one D-1 guards?

I will defer to the experts but we certainly know Carton has the talent.  Let me just say this:  Our guard play this season is nowhere close to the stratosphere that it has to be for us to attain success.  It's evident every time you watch a decent college team franky.  So what's the plan, will our new recruits (or possible coach) move this needle, and is there hope our returning guards in 21-22 can drastically improve?

[Markusquette]

Overall, I think Theo has been the most consistent player for MU. Which isn't a great thing. So he gets a B at minimum in my book. Agree on the D players.

Think Elliott should get a B-. He's been just above average given his sporadic playing time. Garcia and Carton each get a C+ relative to expectations.

[muspc2]

    Overall, I agree with Dr. V's grades and Muggsy's comments on the grades. It may just be me, but I see possibilities for Sy, who is just now completing his sophomore year. In his limited playing time he has shown the best passing and ball handling abilities on the team. (In or present offense, given the lack of movement or cutting to the basket, he is only asked to make a sure pass to a stationary teammate. Unfortunately, many others on the team apparently cannot do even this.) He has shown some diving skills as well, and his defense is improving. (Defense has to be taught to most high schoolers.)
     I"m not saying Sy is destined to be a star, or even a starter (as I hope the next recruiting class has a starting caliber guard or guards). But with improvement of his outside shot Sy could be a solid contributor to the type of deeper and more talented team we want MU to be going forward,

[GooooMarquette]

I don’t think you are too far off Doc, although I disagree that Jamal deserves a higher grade than Justin. Jamal averages 2.0 more ppg and 0.1 more rpg, but he plays eight minutes more per game. Adjust by minutes played, and Justin is equal or better.

And that doesn’t even address the fact that Justin comes off the bench and is only a freshman trying to learn in this Covid-crazy season.

[vogue65]

Really good topic Muggsy, tricky one to give out grades individually but I’ll give it a shot.

These take into account my preseason expectations of each player, keeping in mind that I expected MU to make the tournament and they will almost certainly not, and could finish bottom 3/4 in conference.

Coach: D
Let’s not turn this into yet another wojo thread. Not an F because of a few nice early wins and it seems like his guys are still battling for him. Expected much more, but mainly to see improvement from both individuals and team as season wore on, but we’ve seen the opposite

Akanno, Oso, Perez, Torrence: D
The first three haven’t been able to crack the rotation and Sy was expected to take a big step forward (started the first game of the season) but hasn’t. Unfortunately he’s not living up to his recruiting ranking expectations, even though the pass first pg skills are there. The few opportunities that Dex, Jose and Oso have gotten haven’t shown much, but there seems to be some future upperclassman upside in Oso and maybe Dex if he can harness his athletic abitily.

Greg Elliott: C-
Has had a few really nice games, and has a great attitude and commitment to the program and is a great kid. On the court he seems like a great off the bench spark/spot up shooting guard but was unable to take the next step. We all know about the injuries, he’s a warrior.

Justin Lewis: B-
Has shown a great potential has has been a part of many big moments and brought a lot of excited. Fantastic tools, hopefully he sticks around and has a great MU career. After the fiery start, and even before the season, I expected him to become the fan favorite of the newcomers. He began that way but fizzled quite a bit, typical of a frosh.

Theo John: C
He has improved his offensive game a ton, and his free throws a ton. He’s much more fun to watch on that end this year and you wish he could get more opportunities. Hasn’t quite been the defensive or rebounding dominance/force I expected though. This was his year to break out into a double/double type force and take the team physically and emotionally on his back and he hasn’t succeeded there.

Jamal Cain: B
He’s been quite better than I expected. Of course he has his inconsistencies, but he’s scored and rebounded better than I would’ve hoped. Has shown really decent offensive skills, outside of his handles, and besides some of the maddening attributes has been a big help for the team this year. Well done by Jamal.

Koby McEwan: C
Wildly inconsistent year for Koby. He had hoped he would become the man as a senior with Markus gone and more volume, but that didn’t happen. Increased his scoring a bit and had a few good games, but his rebounding and his elite defending took a step back imo. Like Theo, he had the opportunity to jump into a leadership role and really step up but hasn’t.

Dawson Garcia: B-
Highest expectations of the newcomers. Grade would be higher if I didn’t expect so much, and I know he’s a freshman but I still wanted more. Skills are there and his effort should be applauded- it’s hard to fit in down low right off the bat in the BE. A few 20+ point games but also several donuts. Should get better by the year like JL2

DJ Carton: C
Expected DJC to be the best player and leading scorer on this years team. Figured that he would have to carry the team for it to reach its highest expectations. Heard about NBA type talent and skills. He’s shown where those lofty expectations came from, mainly with his elite athleticism and exciting drive finishes, but the total package just wasn’t there imo. I expected both a better scoring punch and a much better overall handle of the team leading to more assists and easy buckets for the rest with his good vision and handle. Didn’t quite take the step forward many expected but hopefully the talent will take a huge step forward with both Dawson and Justin next season in a nice 3 man punch

Overall: C-
We all love MUbb and hope for better

Typical Marquette grading on a curve.  I have no problem with that, I expect next year to be much better.

[Uncle Rico]

Koby McEwen: D+ As a senior, he should be one of the leaders of the team.  Just hasn’t done anything well this year.

DJ Carton: C If he leaves for the NBA, I wish him well.  Flashes brilliance but wildly inconsistent

Dawson Garcia: B- He’s been fine as a frosh.  Needs to get stronger and more creative offensively

Justin Lewis: B He’s shown himself to be a fantastic rebounder, can block some shots and ply defense.  Work in progress offensively

Jamal Cain: B Best offensive player and turns it over less than the rest.  Could have used better coaching.  Feels like has untapped potential to be a star

Theo John: B- Has been playing without practicing, quintessential program type kid.  Too many turnovers

Greg Elliot: C He should probably get some more PT but like others, too many turnovers.  Doesn’t do much rebounding.

Symir Torrence: D Hasn’t shown himself to be a reliable Big East player.  Easily the most disappointing player on the team besides Koby

The rest are incomplete.  The hype around Dex appears unwarranted

Coaching: F Simply a failure in my mind. They can’t stack success.  With wins over UW and at Creighton, they had a chance to overachieve and instead cratered.  If Wojo is back, no one should expect him to fix what ails the team.  A good coach would spend the off-season self scouting to figure out why the program is stuck in neutral at best.  I don’t think Wojo will do this.  He needs wholesale changes on the staff and how he coaches

[vogue65]

Koby McEwen: D+ As a senior, he should be one of the leaders of the team.  Just hasn’t done anything well this year.

DJ Carton: C If he leaves for the NBA, I wish him well.  Flashes brilliance but wildly inconsistent

Dawson Garcia: B- He’s been fine as a frosh.  Needs to get stronger and more creative offensively

Justin Lewis: B He’s shown himself to be a fantastic rebounder, can block some shots and ply defense.  Work in progress offensively

Jamal Cain: B Best offensive player and turns it over less than the rest.  Could have used better coaching.  Feels like has untapped potential to be a star

Theo John: B- Has been playing without practicing, quintessential program type kid.  Too many turnovers

Greg Elliot: C He should probably get some more PT but like others, too many turnovers.  Doesn’t do much rebounding.

Symir Torrence: D Hasn’t shown himself to be a reliable Big East player.  Easily the most disappointing player on the team besides Koby

The rest are incomplete.  The hype around Dex appears unwarranted

Coaching: F Simply a failure in my mind. They can’t stack success.  With wins over UW and at Creighton, they had a chance to overachieve and instead cratered.  If Wojo is back, no one should expect him to fix what ails the team.  A good coach would spend the off-season self scouting to figure out why the program is stuck in neutral at best.  I don’t think Wojo will do this.  He needs wholesale changes on the staff and how he coaches

Nothing personal, don't mean to be snarky, I hear your pain, but, blah, blah, blah.
I wonder how the kids did in the classroom or however they study.  Just asking?

[BCHoopster]

Why wholesale changes on the staff?

[Uncle Rico]

Why wholesale changes on the staff?

What players have gotten significantly better the last 2 years?  The team makes the same mistakes over and over.  They don’t get better as the season goes along.

[MuggsyB]

Uncle R may be correct here.  I've not been pleased with our player development.  Remember, this doesn't mean guys literally getting better.  That's going to happen in many cases if a statue was the coach.  It's about becoming a viable tier 1 starter and a reliable player on both ends of the floor.  Even in cases where there was a lot of improvement the consistency and rudimentary fundamentals haven't been there.  Not to mention there's arguably been  no growth with regards to team identity and cohesion.  I'm talking 7 years btw.   In other words, in this area, we have been extremely shaky.  And monumentally disappointing. 

[BCHoopster]

What players have gotten significantly better the last 2 years?  The team makes the same mistakes over and over.  They don’t get better as the season goes along.

That’s a good question.  Theo and Jamal have improved, they were not Top 100 kids out of high school, so they are better than I expected.  Both Elliott and Theo have had injuries. Dex got COVID right away so never had a chance plus no summer work, not highly recruited. Torrence is the one player I am very disappointed about, blame the coaches for recruiting a kid that does not even have a jump shot. Koby is a mid-major player, coaches made a mistake recruiting him. Perez the same.  The 3 freshman we will see and until I see the new freshman, we will see if there Big East talents or not.  I would blame the head coach for all the issues on the court, ie. turnovers.  This is the one year that without summer work and a full preseason hurt the program.

[Small Orange Soda]

Uncle R may be correct here.  I've not been pleased with our player development.  Remember, this doesn't mean guys literally getting better.  That's going to happen in many cases if a statue was the coach.  It's about becoming a viable tier 1 starter and a reliable player on both ends of the floor.  Even in cases where there was a lot of improvement the consistency and rudimentary fundamentals haven't been there.  Not to mention there's arguably been  no growth with regards to team identity and cohesion.  I'm talking 7 years btw.   In other words, in this area, we have been extremely shaky.  And monumentally disappointing.

Exactly.  Good point, Muggsy.  Have players improved?  Of course.  But have enough of them improved to a point where they can be cogs in a top 25 team?  Unfortunately, no. 

[Galway Eagle]

What's all this + & -? We went to marquette where it's A AB B BC D CD D

[SaveOD238]

I dunno about grades, but I've described DJ Carton as "the best player in the Big East...for five minutes a game."

So what's that, a C?

[Badgerhater]

I give all the players an A for practicing, learning, traveling and playing through a pandemic.

So define what you mean by travel.  Unfortunately the team was a little too good at that on the court

[JWags85]

Comments about Cain are very fair. I hope he doesn’t try to go the G League, cause I think he has the tools to be an exceptional Euroleague-level talent in Europe playing basketball full time. He’s the most likely Buycks/Juan jump based on untapped upside on the team

[Uncle Rico]

I dunno about grades, but I've described DJ Carton as "the best player in the Big East...for five minutes a game."

So what's that, a C?

Lacks consistency and his KenPom profile is a whole lot of “meh” for a player that we think is the best player on the team.  31% from 3, 34% in league play.  Good, not great assist rate and too many turnovers.

He’s a different player than Markus but Markus had a better assist rate and turned it over less. 

In his defense, it’s a wonky year and the abbreviated off-season didn’t help him

[1SE]

Incomplete.

[panda]

Incomplete.

Would it be an incomplete grade if everyone played really well this season?

[vogue65]

What's all this + & -? We went to marquette where it's A AB B BC D CD D

You left out F. 

[MU1980]

I dunno about grades, but I've described DJ Carton as "the best player in the Big East...for five minutes a game."

So what's that, a C?

Exactly. For about 5-10 minutes of every game  I think that DJ Carton is an NBA type player and the rest of the game he turns into a very average player that doesn't seem to be really motivated.  How can someone look so good, so focused and so skilled for a few minutes every game, but then look like a completely different player the rest of the game?  Doesn't make sense.  And those good 5 minutes change around every game; sometimes it is early, sometimes in the middle and sometimes at the end of the game.  He has taken over some games at the end, but also had some brutal turnovers in crunch time just from lazy passes or too much dribbling. 

[Galway Eagle]

Exactly. For about 5-10 minutes of every game  I think that DJ Carton is an NBA type player and the rest of the game he turns into a very average player that doesn't seem to be really motivated.  How can someone look so good, so focused and so skilled for a few minutes every game, but then look like a completely different player the rest of the game?  Doesn't make sense.  And those good 5 minutes change around every game; sometimes it is early, sometimes in the middle and sometimes at the end of the game.  He has taken over some games at the end, but also had some brutal turnovers in crunch time just from lazy passes or too much dribbling.

Part of me wonders if it's just lack of enthusiasm donning the Jersey. I'm not trying to read into anything but maybe transferring here + joining a rough team that's not going to the tournament has made him a bit apathetic while watching his former teammates crush it this year.

[MuggsyB]

Part of me wonders if it's just lack of enthusiasm donning the Jersey. I'm not trying to read into anything but maybe transferring here + joining a rough team that's not going to the tournament has made him a bit apathetic while watching his former teammates crush it this year.

I would say no, he's just been very erratic.  And by the way the starting guards at Ohio St. are better college players than Carton at this juncture.  Now in his defense he came back from a long layoff and has below mediocre perimeter help.  However, he has shot poorly, been hesitant throughout games, has kicked the ball away constantly, missed critical FT's, and disappears for prolonged stretches. 

I realize this is some strong criticism but the young man is super talented and the key to us having any success.  The most talented players, when they are playing poorly, need to be scrutinized the most.   We're talking about a kid who should be 1st team BEast and dynamic on both ends of the floor.

[BCHoopster]

You forget one thing, does not have a quick release on his shot and really no jump shot which is surprising. Needs to work on changing his form, to inconsistent

[GooooMarquette]

Part of me wonders if it's just lack of enthusiasm donning the Jersey. I'm not trying to read into anything but maybe transferring here + joining a rough team that's not going to the tournament has made him a bit apathetic while watching his former teammates crush it this year.

I might agree if DJ's inconsistency appeared as the season wore on. But he has been fluctuating between 'wow' and 'just ok' from the opening tip back in November.

If Wojo can figure out how to get a consistent performance out of him, the sky is the limit.

[MuggsyB]

I might agree if DJ's inconsistency appeared as the season wore on. But he has been fluctuating between 'wow' and 'just ok' from the opening tip back in November.

If Wojo can figure out how to get a consistent performance out of him, the sky is the limit.

Tremendously talented kid Goooo.  I would suggest he axe the yo-yo dribbling and use his blow by downhill speed for starters.  Once he gets into the paint better decisions need to be made but he must relentlessly attack and put pressure on the defense.  Whether to create or score/draw fouls.  He has the athleticism to live at the FT line and should be dropping far more dimes.  I'm hoping for less hesitation in general and ruthless/no mercy attack mode far more often. 

[1SE]

Would it be an incomplete grade if everyone played really well this season?

Yes. Final grades aren't out. If DG puts us on his back and carries us to a BET and a S16 I would certainly ly have a different take on his year. I'm all for these kinds of threads but in the silly season

Midterm grades or even regular season grades would be fine. But there's no logic to the timing of this thread.

[GooooMarquette]

Tremendously talented kid Goooo.  I would suggest he axe the yo-yo dribbling and use his blow by downhill speed for starters.  Once he gets into the paint better decisions need to be made but he must relentlessly attack and put pressure on the defense.  Whether to create or score/draw fouls.  He has the athleticism to live at the FT line and should be dropping far more dimes.  I'm hoping for less hesitation in general and ruthless/no mercy attack mode far more often.

Agreed. He can be devastating when he uses that blow-by first step to get into the paint, but he seems to hesitate too often. At this point in the season, there would seem to be little downside to Wojo telling him to drive, drive, drive.

[panda]

Yes. Final grades aren't out. If DG puts us on his back and carries us to a BET and a S16 I would certainly ly have a different take on his year. I'm all for these kinds of threads but in the silly season

Midterm grades or even regular season grades would be fine. But there's no logic to the timing of this thread.

Fair enough. I misunderstood.

[bilsu]

I might agree if DJ's inconsistency appeared as the season wore on. But he has been fluctuating between 'wow' and 'just ok' from the opening tip back in November.

If Wojo can figure out how to get a consistent performance out of him, the sky is the limit.

I do not think Wojo can push him because of his issues. He would of quit just like he did at Ohio St.

[TedBaxter]

I do not think Wojo can push him because of his issues. He would of quit just like he did at Ohio St.

I try to research things about someone before I post about them, especially when they have had mental health issues.  You might want to follow this technique.

[GooooMarquette]

I do not think Wojo can push him because of his issues. He would of quit just like he did at Ohio St.

Did his problems at Ohio State stem from being given the keys to run the offense, or otherwise being too challenged? I’ve never heard that.