Bosses believe your work skills will soon be useless

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

I think that is part of it.  The other part is that millennials really don't believe in "paying your dues" when it comes to promotions and the like.  If they start one job and see a better opportunity at another company a year later (and at another place a year after that), they have no reservations about jumping ship.

Or quit when passed over for a promotion.

[Tugg Speedman]

I agree with this analysis. The single biggest flaw in younger gen millenials is a fear of ambiguity.

I respectfully disagree ...  I think millennials are among the hardest working generation ever (note, I am not one).

They have a different approach and mindset that the older generations are having a hard time adapting too.  So, as it has been since the dawn of time, the "fossils" (which I am one) think the younger generation is lazy mainly because "they don't get it."

So what is it that millennials think/do?

They have no time for office politics, or the office in general. 

They think the idea that you wake up everyday and go to some big building is wasteful and unproductive.   So they are not interested in this way to collaborate.  And to some degree they are correct.  The modern office is a 19th century invention.  So, they have no interest in the trapping of corporate success (i.e., the corner office).

The 21st century form of collaboration is online.  They think their entire office is apps on their tablet/Laptop,   They will give you 10ish hours a day, but they will decide which 10 hours.  That means they might work all night, and take the afternoon off.  The office is a place to float in and out of to hold meetings, get things done, that need to be done there, and leave.  This is what Chick referred to about jumping ship and job hopping.  If they have nothing to do at 1PM they want to go do something fun.  Yes, as 03 said, they believe in extreme meritocracy.

They believe in leverage. 

That means crowd sourcing problems.  This is what TAMU referred to a "asking a lot of questions."  No one can possible know all the outcomes and alternates.  So instead of pretending you do, or worse, making it up, present your problem to 10,000 people online and have them help you with it.

MU69 ... am I to assume that your job entailed you driving to some big building, wearing a white coat and doing research in secret behind high security?  If so, they think this is possibly the most inefficient way to do things.  Maybe your collaboration was with a university.  Today they think it should be with the entire world online.

That is why I brought up the x-prize approach before.  One of the millennials that works for me is even noting that police detectives are finding crowd sources useful is solving crimes, the most famous is Reddit crowd sourcing the Boston bombing case in 2013.

Now before Jockey (Brandx) and the other fossils tell me I'm wrong ... your criticism will probably go along the lines of "it is not perfect."  You will do what Jockey did with x-prize ... find a flaw here or there and then use it as a reason to dismiss the entire concept is bad.  Fact, is we do that because we are threatened by the change that is coming.  Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.  These new approaches are far superior to "our" 19th century way of collaborating.

Be honest with yourself, if you are over 45 (which I am) have you done the mental calculations about how fast your job is changing and whether you can make it to retirement?  If you have (and yes, I have too) then you are the biggest danger to the economy today.  Because you are willing to slow down the process of change, retard it, or even sabotage it for purely selfish reasons.

Millennials are possibly the most productive generation ever.  They have created great things, and have great plans.  And those plans involving changing the way we work to the point that it will be unrecognizable to those over 45.    We have to stop being scared of the change, fighting it at every turn, and embrace it.  Part of being scared is making ourselves feel better by using the standard criticisms of the millennial generation found in the post above.

[warriorchick]

I respectfully disagree ...  I think millennials are among the hardest working generation ever (note, I am not one).

They have a different approach and mindset that the older generations are having a hard time adapting too.  So, as it has been since the dawn of time, the "fossils" (which I am one) think the younger generation is lazy mainly because "they don't get it."

So what is it that millennials think/do?

They have no time for office politics, or the office in general. 

They think the idea that you wake up everyday and go to some big building is wasteful and unproductive.   So they are not interested in this way to collaborate.  And to some degree they are correct.  The modern office is a 19th century invention.  So, they have no interest in the trapping of corporate success (i.e., the corner office).

The 21st century form of collaboration is online.  They think their entire office is apps on the tablet/Laptop,   They will give you 10ish hours a day, but they will decide which 10 hours.  That means they might work all night, and take the afternoon off.  The office is a place to float in and out of to hold meetings, get things done, that need to be done there, and leave.  This is what Chick referred to about jumping ship and job hopping.  If they have nothing to do at 1PM they want to go do something fun.  Yes, as 03 said, they believe in extreme meritocracy.

They believe in leverage. 

That means crowd sourcing problems.  This is what TAMU referred to a "asking a lot of questions."  No one can possible know all the outcomes and alternates.  So instead of pretending you do, or worse, making it up, present your problem to 10,000 people online and have them help you with it.

MU69 ... am I to assume that your job entailed you driving to some big building, wearing a white coat and doing research in secret behind high security?  If so, they think this is possibly the most inefficient way to do things.  Maybe your collaboration was with a university.  Today they think it should be with the entire world online.

That is why I brought up the x-prize approach before.  One of the millennials that works for me is even noting that police detectives are finding crowd sources useful is solving crimes, the most famous is Reddit crowd sourcing the Boston bombing case in 2013.

Now before Jockey (Brandx) and the other fossils tell me I'm wrong ... your criticism will probably go along the lines of "it is not perfect."  You will do what Jockey did with x-prize ... find a flaw here or there and then use it as a reason to dismiss the entire concept is bad.  Fact, is we do that because we are threatened by the change that is coming.  Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.  These no approaches are far superior to our 19th century way of collaborating.

Be honest with yourself, if you are over 45 (which I am) have you done the mental calculations about how fast your job is changing and whether you can make it to retirement?  If you have (and yes, I have too) then you are the biggest danger to the economy today.  Because you are willing to slow down the process of change, retard it, or even sabotage it for purely selfish reasons.

Millennials are possibly the most productive generation ever.  They have created great things, and have great plans.  And those plans involving changing the way we work to the point that it will be unrecognizable to those over 45.    We have to stop being scared of the change, fighting it at every turn, and embrace it.  Part of being scared is making ourselves feel better by using the standard criticisms of the millennial generation found in the post above.

Whoa!  Cool your jets, bro.  How in the world did you pick up in any of our comments that we thought Millenials were not hard-working?   I said that Millenials job-hop.  That is a stone cold fact, and I did not make any judgmental comments on whether that was a good thing or a bad thing.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Heisty there is nothing to respectfully disagree on.  No one said millenials weren't hard working.  We said they work differently.

[mu03eng]

I respectfully disagree ...  I think millennials are among the hardest working generation ever (note, I am not one).

They have a different approach and mindset that the older generations are having a hard time adapting too.  So, as it has been since the dawn of time, the "fossils" (which I am one) think the younger generation is lazy mainly because "they don't get it."

So what is it that millennials think/do?

They have no time for office politics, or the office in general. 

They think the idea that you wake up everyday and go to some big building is wasteful and unproductive.   So they are not interested in this way to collaborate.  And to some degree they are correct.  The modern office is a 19th century invention.  So, they have no interest in the trapping of corporate success (i.e., the corner office).

The 21st century form of collaboration is online.  They think their entire office is apps on their tablet/Laptop,   They will give you 10ish hours a day, but they will decide which 10 hours.  That means they might work all night, and take the afternoon off.  The office is a place to float in and out of to hold meetings, get things done, that need to be done there, and leave.  This is what Chick referred to about jumping ship and job hopping.  If they have nothing to do at 1PM they want to go do something fun.  Yes, as 03 said, they believe in extreme meritocracy.

They believe in leverage. 

That means crowd sourcing problems.  This is what TAMU referred to a "asking a lot of questions."  No one can possible know all the outcomes and alternates.  So instead of pretending you do, or worse, making it up, present your problem to 10,000 people online and have them help you with it.

MU69 ... am I to assume that your job entailed you driving to some big building, wearing a white coat and doing research in secret behind high security?  If so, they think this is possibly the most inefficient way to do things.  Maybe your collaboration was with a university.  Today they think it should be with the entire world online.

That is why I brought up the x-prize approach before.  One of the millennials that works for me is even noting that police detectives are finding crowd sources useful is solving crimes, the most famous is Reddit crowd sourcing the Boston bombing case in 2013.

Now before Jockey (Brandx) and the other fossils tell me I'm wrong ... your criticism will probably go along the lines of "it is not perfect."  You will do what Jockey did with x-prize ... find a flaw here or there and then use it as a reason to dismiss the entire concept is bad.  Fact, is we do that because we are threatened by the change that is coming.  Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.  These new approaches are far superior to "our" 19th century way of collaborating.

Be honest with yourself, if you are over 45 (which I am) have you done the mental calculations about how fast your job is changing and whether you can make it to retirement?  If you have (and yes, I have too) then you are the biggest danger to the economy today.  Because you are willing to slow down the process of change, retard it, or even sabotage it for purely selfish reasons.

Millennials are possibly the most productive generation ever.  They have created great things, and have great plans.  And those plans involving changing the way we work to the point that it will be unrecognizable to those over 45.    We have to stop being scared of the change, fighting it at every turn, and embrace it.  Part of being scared is making ourselves feel better by using the standard criticisms of the millennial generation found in the post above.

My statement had exactly zero to do with productivity(their productivity) or their work ethic. It was merely the amount of "management" that the millenial generation requires.

Lastly, I am a millennial and have millennials working for me...I've got some experience on this front.

[muwarrior69]

I respectfully disagree ...  I think millennials are among the hardest working generation ever (note, I am not one).

They have a different approach and mindset that the older generations are having a hard time adapting too.  So, as it has been since the dawn of time, the "fossils" (which I am one) think the younger generation is lazy mainly because "they don't get it."

So what is it that millennials think/do?

They have no time for office politics, or the office in general. 

They think the idea that you wake up everyday and go to some big building is wasteful and unproductive.   So they are not interested in this way to collaborate.  And to some degree they are correct.  The modern office is a 19th century invention.  So, they have no interest in the trapping of corporate success (i.e., the corner office).

The 21st century form of collaboration is online.  They think their entire office is apps on their tablet/Laptop,   They will give you 10ish hours a day, but they will decide which 10 hours.  That means they might work all night, and take the afternoon off.  The office is a place to float in and out of to hold meetings, get things done, that need to be done there, and leave.  This is what Chick referred to about jumping ship and job hopping.  If they have nothing to do at 1PM they want to go do something fun.  Yes, as 03 said, they believe in extreme meritocracy.

They believe in leverage. 

That means crowd sourcing problems.  This is what TAMU referred to a "asking a lot of questions."  No one can possible know all the outcomes and alternates.  So instead of pretending you do, or worse, making it up, present your problem to 10,000 people online and have them help you with it.

MU69 ... am I to assume that your job entailed you driving to some big building, wearing a white coat and doing research in secret behind high security?  If so, they think this is possibly the most inefficient way to do things.  Maybe your collaboration was with a university.  Today they think it should be with the entire world online.

That is why I brought up the x-prize approach before.  One of the millennials that works for me is even noting that police detectives are finding crowd sources useful is solving crimes, the most famous is Reddit crowd sourcing the Boston bombing case in 2013.

Now before Jockey (Brandx) and the other fossils tell me I'm wrong ... your criticism will probably go along the lines of "it is not perfect."  You will do what Jockey did with x-prize ... find a flaw here or there and then use it as a reason to dismiss the entire concept is bad.  Fact, is we do that because we are threatened by the change that is coming.  Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.  These new approaches are far superior to "our" 19th century way of collaborating.

Be honest with yourself, if you are over 45 (which I am) have you done the mental calculations about how fast your job is changing and whether you can make it to retirement?  If you have (and yes, I have too) then you are the biggest danger to the economy today.  Because you are willing to slow down the process of change, retard it, or even sabotage it for purely selfish reasons.

Millennials are possibly the most productive generation ever.  They have created great things, and have great plans.  And those plans involving changing the way we work to the point that it will be unrecognizable to those over 45.    We have to stop being scared of the change, fighting it at every turn, and embrace it.  Part of being scared is making ourselves feel better by using the standard criticisms of the millennial generation found in the post above.

While doing our clinical R&D we were bound to keep our research "secret or confidential". All who participated  and/or collaborated were bound by such agreements. As one who saw how inefficient clinical trials were conducted back in my day we always looked for new and innovative ways to reduce costs and time. One example: Data was collected on paper forms, often in cursive, and then had to be entered by data entry into the database; then the data had to be validated; that is what was now in the database was exactly the same as reported on paper. By the time I retired the data was no longer recorded on  paper but entered directly into the database remotely over a "secured" server. At least from my own experience we embraced technology and "new" ways of doing the task at hand.

[Tugg Speedman]

Whoa!  Cool your jets, bro.  How in the world did you pick up in any of our comments that we thought Millenials were not hard-working?   I said that Millenials job-hop.  That is a stone cold fact, and I did not make any judgmental comments on whether that was a good thing or a bad thing.

Heisty there is nothing to respectfully disagree on.  No one said millenials weren't hard working.  We said they work differently.

Your comments came off as criticisms, as does your defense.  Maybe the millennials have it right and the proper way is to say it "they work correctly  and they are showing us that the way we work, and manage, is incorrect."

[warriorchick]

Your comments came off as criticisms, as does your defense.  Maybe the millennials have it right and the proper way is to say it "they work correctly  and they are showing us that the way we work, and manage, is incorrect."

Since all three of us simultaneously told you that you had misinterpreted our remarks, that probably means you are in the wrong here.

But it you wouldn't be Heisy if you didn't double down every time you were wrong, so by all means, go ahead and do so.

[mu03eng]

Since all three of us simultaneously told you that you had misinterpreted our remarks, that probably means you are in the wrong here.

But it you wouldn't be Heisy if you didn't double down every time you were wrong, so by all means, go ahead and do so.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Your comments came off as criticisms, as does your defense.  Maybe the millennials have it right and the proper way is to say it "they work correctly  and they are showing us that the way we work, and manage, is incorrect."

Again, I (and the others) didn't say millennials work incorrectly (at 28 I'm smack dab in the middle of the millennial generation). I said they work differently from previous generations (which is also what I believe you are saying).

I did say that I personally am driven crazy by one specific aspect of millennials and said that I have been challenged in how to manage that. That's not even close to saying millennials are lazy and not hard working.

And you know what, there are some things that are just incorrect. Crowdsourcing ideas is great and millennials are the best at that. Wanting to get things right the first time is great too. Walking down the hall to my office to ask me where the meeting is without checking your calendar first, that is never correct.

[Tugg Speedman]

Since all three of us simultaneously told you that you had misinterpreted our remarks, that probably means you are in the wrong here.

But it you wouldn't be Heisy if you didn't double down every time you were wrong, so by all means, go ahead and do so.

Just to be clear, this is not a criticism?

I think that is part of it.  The other part is that millennials really don't believe in "paying your dues" when it comes to promotions and the like.  If they start one job and see a better opportunity at another company a year later (and at another place a year after that), they have no reservations about jumping ship.

Got it.

[Tugg Speedman]

You too ... this is not a criticism?

I agree with this analysis. The single biggest flaw in younger gen millenials is a fear of ambiguity.

And what were you agreeing with ...

My understanding is that its a byproduct of how primary and secondary education is being taught now. Students are encouraged to ask questions when they don't know something and the teachers are expected to give them the answers rather than making the student figure it out for themselves. Testing has become more about regurgitating memorized information than using critical thinking to determine the correct answer.

I agree with you that making mistakes and finding answers on your own is how you should learn and build understanding. But that's not how millennials are being taught. As an example, you may notice on this site that some of the younger posters will often ask questions that could easily be answered by a quick google search. I'm a millennial myself, but the younger millennial and igen students that I work with drive me crazy with this. Its hard to balance my response because I want to challenge them to critically think but I also want them to feel comfortable coming to me with questions if they truly are stuck.

Got it ... again

[Tugg Speedman]

nm

[Galway Eagle]

I worked at one company for 20 years before I was down sized (it went out of bussiness). My wife worked at her company for 35 years. I think back in our day loyalty ran both ways. Today not so much? Perhaps my assumption in incorrect, but could it be that millennials sense that?

This x100. I was working at Groupon for the past year and was a part of the layoffs that just happened last month. I always hit my sales goals, daily dial targets, talk time, etc. but still laid off. Then I just found today they're hiring new college grads again. It's a freaking joke. After that I'm not going to act loyal to an employer again. Just started a new job but I'm not getting invested into them whatsoever. Making as much money as I can, as quick as I can and they can hire me up or other companies can take notice. Screw companies that make you feel like a part of something and claim to want you, kick you out the door and then start a new cycle the next month.

[forgetful]

I think that is part of it.  The other part is that millennials really don't believe in "paying your dues" when it comes to promotions and the like.  If they start one job and see a better opportunity at another company a year later (and at another place a year after that), they have no reservations about jumping ship.

I disagree with this statement and believe you are mistaking correlation with causation.  Companies have switched to a different model of raises over the past 15 years, where raises are minimized and new talent via poaching other companies employees has gained prominence. 

It is widely known in many fields that if you want to get a raise at all you have to leave to another company.  A friend of mine in biotech started at a small company.  Got annual raises essentially equal to inflation.  Promotions came with no extra money.   When he asked for a real raise, they said there was no money for it.  After 6 years he left to go to Merck and got a 20% pay bump.  Same thing happened at Merck, put his time in for 6-years, minimal raises.  After 6-years he left to go to Pfizer, and got another 20%+ pay increase.  Both times he moved he never applied anywhere, they came calling to him, because he was well regarded and successful.

He would have loved to stay with his first company forever, but they want to take advantage of that by not giving pay increases.  The companies prey off people not wanting to move.

Millenials do not desire moving any more than other generations, they just have never known a system where hard work/loyalty were rewarded with pay increases.

[Hards Alumni]

This x100. I was working at Groupon for the past year and was a part of the layoffs that just happened last month. I always hit my sales goals, daily dial targets, talk time, etc. but still laid off. Then I just found today they're hiring new college grads again. It's a freaking joke. After that I'm not going to act loyal to an employer again. Just started a new job but I'm not getting invested into them whatsoever. Making as much money as I can, as quick as I can and they can hire me up or other companies can take notice. Screw companies that make you feel like a part of something and claim to want you, kick you out the door and then start a new cycle the next month.

You're figuring out what the modern workplace is.  WELL DONE.

The old model encouraged loyalty with loyalty.  The same cannot be said for the new model.

One of my best friends has jumped companies every three years, and gotten major raises every time (class of 2004, so edge millennials).

Another friend of the same age group who graduated from PSU tried to quit EPIC in the Madison area (hope they need no introduction) and every time he threatened to quit, they threw 10k more per year at him... this happened 4 times... Eventually, he left and started his own consulting firm.

[Tugg Speedman]

I disagree with this statement and believe you are mistaking correlation with causation.  Companies have switched to a different model of raises over the past 15 years, where raises are minimized and new talent via poaching other companies employees has gained prominence. 

It is widely known in many fields that if you want to get a raise at all you have to leave to another company.  A friend of mine in biotech started at a small company.  Got annual raises essentially equal to inflation.  Promotions came with no extra money.   When he asked for a real raise, they said there was no money for it.  After 6 years he left to go to Merck and got a 20% pay bump.  Same thing happened at Merck, put his time in for 6-years, minimal raises.  After 6-years he left to go to Pfizer, and got another 20%+ pay increase.  Both times he moved he never applied anywhere, they came calling to him, because he was well regarded and successful.

He would have loved to stay with his first company forever, but they want to take advantage of that by not giving pay increases.  The companies prey off people not wanting to move.

Millenials do not desire moving any more than other generations, they just have never known a system where hard work/loyalty were rewarded with pay increases.

I agree with this ... changing companies is disrupting, especially if you have to move ... especially if you have a family. 

So companies are "calling your bluff and daring you to move.

In the end, it is a bad strategy for companies to do this because only the best move the mediocre stay put.  It waters down your workforce.

[mu03eng]

You too ... this is not a criticism?

And what were you agreeing with ...

Got it ... again

Our point was the criticism had nothing to do with millennial work effort or productivity which is what you accused us of. Our criticism was the millennials impact on management's productivity and/or their ability to work in the grey areas. Your objection was not about us being critical generally but critical about specific things we never said

[Dr. Blackheart]

I believe bosses will be replaced by robots first.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

In the end, it is a bad strategy for companies to do this because only the best move the mediocre stay put.  It waters down your workforce.

This I couldn't agree with more.

[muwarrior69]

I believe bosses will be replaced by robots first.

Twilight Zone: Season 5,  episode 33 "The Brain Center at Whipples"

[jesmu84]

I think that is part of it.  The other part is that millennials really don't believe in "paying your dues" when it comes to promotions and the like.  If they start one job and see a better opportunity at another company a year later (and at another place a year after that), they have no reservations about jumping ship.

The irony here is the elder generation degrading millennials for being a part of "participation trophy" culture, then giving out raises or promotions to their own just for being present.

Clearly I'm painting with broad strokes, but it's something that annoys me about the current working environment.

[Tugg Speedman]

The irony here is the elder generation degrading millennials for being a part of "participation trophy" culture, then giving out raises or promotions to their own just for being present.

Clearly I'm painting with broad strokes, but it's something that annoys me about the current working environment.

See earlier ... they weren't criticizing the millennials ... even though what they wrote was critical of them.

And, you are exactly right ... the older genrations participation trophy is getting to work before the boss and staying until you're the last to leave.  This should count for nothing but in their generation, it counted for a lot.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

See earlier ... they weren't criticizing the millennials ... even though what they wrote was critical of them.

And, you are exactly right ... the older genrations participation trophy is getting to work before the boss and staying until you're the last to leave.  This should count for nothing but in their generation, it counted for a lot.

Sigh....

Here's how this conversation went.

MUEng said,  part of the issue is that managers refuse to adapt to how the younger generation works. (Which I believe is your overall point)

Mu69 asked how is the younger generation different?

Chick, Eng, and myself all provided different aspects of how millennials work, both positive and negative. And explained why they are challenging for the older generation.

MU69 commented on how he had seen the workplace change and asked more honest questions about how millennials were different.

I answered the question, not even commenting if it was positive or negative, just shared where the characteristic came from, and shared how I had struggled to manage fellow millennials because one of the aspects.

Eng agreed and noted that ambiguity was one of the biggest challenges for millennials. Which it is. That is well documented and researched.

Up until this point it was a civil dialogue between members of different generations sharing their observations on generational theory.

Then....

YOU FOSSILS NEED TO GET WITH THE TIMES! HOW CAN YOU SAY MILLENNIALS ARE NOT HARD WORKING!?!?!?!?

Everyone: We didn't say they weren't hard working.

BUT YOU CRITICIZED THEM!

Everyone: Yes, we pointed out things they are good at and things they struggle with. But we never said they weren't hard working.

HA! THEY SAY THEY DIDN'T CRITICIZE THEM!

[Tugg Speedman]

Sigh....

Here's how this conversation went.

MUEng said,  part of the issue is that managers refuse to adapt to how the younger generation works. (Which I believe is your overall point)

Mu69 asked how is the younger generation different?

Chick, Eng, and myself all provided different aspects of how millennials work, both positive and negative. And explained why they are challenging for the older generation.

MU69 commented on how he had seen the workplace change and asked more honest questions about how millennials were different.

I answered the question, not even commenting if it was positive or negative, just shared where the characteristic came from, and shared how I had struggled to manage fellow millennials because one of the aspects.

Eng agreed and noted that ambiguity was one of the biggest challenges for millennials. Which it is. That is well documented and researched.

Up until this point it was a civil dialogue between members of different generations sharing their observations on generational theory.

Then....

YOU FOSSILS NEED TO GET WITH THE TIMES! HOW CAN YOU SAY MILLENNIALS ARE NOT HARD WORKING!?!?!?!?

Everyone: We didn't say they weren't hard working.

BUT YOU CRITICIZED THEM!

Everyone: Yes, we pointed out things they are good at and things they struggle with. But we never said they weren't hard working.

HA! THEY SAY THEY DIDN'T CRITICIZE THEM!

Thou doth protest too much, methinks