Another shooting

[Jay Bee]

I'm an Independent who is not really on a "side" when it comes to Dems and GOP

lol, funny guy!

[real chili 83]

How bout that Al Franken. Gonna get me some popcorn when the 10:00 news comes on tonight.

Blood in the water.

[tower912]

Al should go.   As should all of the R's accused of the same, RC83.   Happy?

[GGGG]

Al should definitely go.  No doubt.

[real chili 83]

Al should go.   As should all of the R's accused of the same, RC83.   Happy?

Agreed.  Easy on the hostility, friend.

From up close, Franken is a smarmy punk.  Also very smart, and knows how to speak well and spin things.  He's like a lot of (not all) politicians on both sides of the aisle. 

In MN we've had some great politicians that were on both sides of the aisle.  I respected David Minge and Rod Grahms. Dem and Rep.  We've also had our share of complete idiots.  I was kicked out of Paul Wellstone's office by the senator himself....before I could even say a word.  Guy was the laughing stock of the Democratic Party...by democrats.  Bill Luther was a very reasonable man.  Jim Ramstead was great to talk to, and had a wonderful staff.

[real chili 83]

Al should definitely go.  No doubt.

Didn't know McGuire was a politician   

[tower912]

I support any sanctions toward politicians accused of sexual impropriety.    Of both parties.   I'm glad the floodgates have opened in Hollywood.  Bring it out into the open.  Expose the predators and hypocrites, regardless of profession or political persuasion.

[Benny B]

Say nothing unless you have something worthwhile to say.

Hiding behind "thoughts and prayers" is cowardly.

I’m 100% on both.  Problem is, we live in a country where 99.9% thinks 55% is perfectly acceptable.

Want to see real change?  Start with making political campaigns about issues, not turnout.  MAKE VOTING MANDATORY.  Zero point zero zero something of Americans will be killed by a gun this year because just about every one of you don’t give two shtz about the 45%, let alone the other 27.5% of you.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Agreed.  Easy on the hostility, friend.

From up close, Franken is a smarmy punk.  Also very smart, and knows how to speak well and spin things.  He's like a lot of (not all) politicians on both sides of the aisle. 

In MN we've had some great politicians that were on both sides of the aisle.  I respected David Minge and Rod Grahms. Dem and Rep.  We've also had our share of complete idiots.  I was kicked out of Paul Wellstone's office by the senator himself....before I could even say a word.  Guy was the laughing stock of the Democratic Party...by democrats.  Bill Luther was a very reasonable man.  Jim Ramstead was great to talk to, and had a wonderful staff.

You managed to talk about idiot politicians from Minnesota without bringing up Venture? Impressive.

As for Franken, if the allegations are true, he should absolutely step down. If he doesn't, he should be investigated and then be made to step down if the investigation finds the claims to be credible.

[Benny B]

You managed to talk about idiot politicians from Minnesota without bringing up Venture? Impressive.

As for Franken, if the allegations are true, he should absolutely step down. If he doesn't, he should be investigated and then be made to step down if the investigation finds the claims to be credible.

If they’re true?  There’s a dang picture of it.  I could see how a rational, unbiased person could use the “if” word for that crapbag Moore and keep a straight face (I’ll admit that I’m assuming there’s no visual evidence of any of his god-knows-how-many score incidents), but unless you’re a LEO or media, using the “if” word on Franken takes some real Kellyanne Cohones. 

[MU82]

I support any sanctions toward politicians accused of sexual impropriety.    Of both parties.   I'm glad the floodgates have opened in Hollywood.  Bring it out into the open.  Expose the predators and hypocrites, regardless of profession or political persuasion.

How do we sanction the politician who publicly admitted to going backstage at beauty pageants so he could leer at naked contestants as young as 15, and also publicly admitted grabby lady cats?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

If they’re true?  There’s a dang picture of it.  I could see how a rational, unbiased person could use the “if” word for that crapbag Moore and keep a straight face (I’ll admit that I’m assuming there’s no visual evidence of any of his god-knows-how-many score incidents), but unless you’re a LEO or media, using the “if” word on Franken takes some real Kellyanne Cohones.

Oh sh*t. I hadn't actually looked at the story yet. I just saw the headlines. There's so many "*insert famous person* sexually assaulted/harassed *insert person here*" stories out there right now that I stopped reading all of them. (It's made my job super fun over the last month)

Yeah, he needs to step down.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

How do we sanction the politician who publicly admitted to going backstage at beauty pageants so he could leer at naked contestants as young as 15, and also publicly admitted grabby lady cats?

Hopefully by his opposing political party holding their own accountable with no drama or fuss to set the example. Maybe people will see that and realize that they can expect more from their politicians than what they've gotten in the past.

[Tugg Speedman]

What laws do we lack that can stop this?

Gunman in Northern California rampage was not supposed to have guns
http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/15/us/california-tehama-county-shootings/index.html

California mass shooter built his own illegal guns
https://nypost.com/2017/11/16/california-mass-shooter-built-his-own-illegal-guns/

California mass shooter killed wife, buried her beneath floor
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/california-mass-shooter-killed-wife-buried-her-beneath-floor-n821051

------------

And to anticipate the unrealistic answer, we have 300 to 500 million guns in this country, how do we get them out of his hands after a total ban is in place?  How do we get the illegal parts out of his hands when we make them illegal ... oh wait, they are already.

[Tugg Speedman]

And I'll ask the question again. 

Until the 1930s you could buy machine guns, grenades, anti-tank weapons, cannons, mortars and the like.  Sears Roebuck sold them through their catalogs.  Why didn't we have a mass shooting problem before the 1930s?  (I detailed this in a previously, now banned, post).

More recently, why was this problem non-existent until about five years ago?  See the chart below.

We had millions of AR-15s in society in the 1980s and 1990s.  Why was there less than 20 people killed a year in mass-shootings back then (meaning 1 or 3 a year).  Why do we have about one a week now?

To be specific ... from 1982 to 2007 (25 years) only four mass shootings resulted in 10 or more killed.  We had nine in the last seven years, and two in the last month.  The last month has seen more mass shootings killing 10 or more than all of the 1980s.


What changed?  Hint:  It is not the availability of semi-automatic guns, as I have repeatedly pointed out, they have been in society for 140 years.  They have numbered in the hundreds of millions for decades.

Don't you think before you demand solutions, you answer these questions first?

https://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2017/11/daily-chart-3

[GGGG]

I don't know what the exact solutions should be.  I know more inaction isn't a good one.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

What laws do we lack that can stop this?

Gunman in Northern California rampage was not supposed to have guns
http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/15/us/california-tehama-county-shootings/index.html

California mass shooter built his own illegal guns
https://nypost.com/2017/11/16/california-mass-shooter-built-his-own-illegal-guns/

California mass shooter killed wife, buried her beneath floor
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/california-mass-shooter-killed-wife-buried-her-beneath-floor-n821051

------------

And to anticipate the unrealistic answer, we have 300 to 500 million guns in this country, how do we get them out of his hands after a total ban is in place?  How do we get the illegal parts out of his hands when we make them illegal ... oh wait, they are already.

Did anyone here say that this epidemic can be stopped entirely?  Did anyone say that it is realistic to go after all of the guns already out there?  Did anyone say this was entirely a gun control issue?  Hint: no.   

This is about prevention and saving lives going forward. You'll never be able to eliminate mass shootings entirely. But there are plenty of things that can be done to reduce the scale of carnage inflicted, to stop individuals that don't already have weapons from obtaining them, etc.

Doing nothing is not acceptable.  As usual, your logic misses the mark.

[jesmu84]

Did anyone here say that this epidemic can be stopped entirely?  Did anyone say that it is realistic to go after all of the guns already out there?  Did anyone say this was entirely a gun control issue?  Hint: no.   

This is about prevention and saving lives going forward. You'll never be able to eliminate mass shootings entirely. But there are plenty of things that can be done to reduce the scale of carnage inflicted, to stop individuals that don't already have weapons from obtaining them, etc.

Doing nothing is not acceptable.  As usual, your logic misses the mark.

He'll come back with his slippery slope argument as usual.

I've noticed slippery slope and equivalency are 2 of the more common logical fallacies used around here

[Tugg Speedman]

I don't know what the exact solutions should be.  I know more inaction isn't a good one.

Did anyone here say that this epidemic can be stopped entirely?  Did anyone say that it is realistic to go after all of the guns already out there?  Did anyone say this was entirely a gun control issue?  Hint: no.   

This is about prevention and saving lives going forward. You'll never be able to eliminate mass shootings entirely. But there are plenty of things that can be done to reduce the scale of carnage inflicted, to stop individuals that don't already have weapons from obtaining them, etc.

Doing nothing is not acceptable.  As usual, your logic misses the mark.

I've never used the slippery slope argument.  I've just said the gun is a fact of life in the US and it is impossible to get rid of them.

And since you admitted it is impossible to stop these type of shooters**, there is one solution left ... more guns and more "good guys" with conceal carried guns.

So you will demand we "do something" ... but not this. "Do something" is code for punishing legal gun owners.  Jockey is so far gone he blames legal gun owners (i.e., the NRA) for these shootings.  He does even know what the problem is anymore.

-----

** six weeks after Vegas they still don't have a motivate.  The Texas Chruch shooter was not supposed to have guns but the Government screwed up.  This guy made his own illegal guns.  The only way to stop this is a "good guy" with a gun that can take him on as he starts.

[Hards Alumni]

I've never used the slippery slope argument.  I've just said the gun is a fact of life in the US and it is impossible to get rid of them.

And since you admitted it is impossible to stop these type of shooters**, there is one solution left ... more guns and more "good guys" with conceal carried guns.

So you will demand we "do something" ... but not this. "Do something" is code for punishing legal gun owners.  Jockey is so far gone he blames legal gun owners (i.e., the NRA) for these shootings.  He does even know what the problem is anymore.

-----

** six weeks after Vegas they still don't have a motivate.  The Texas Chruch shooter was not supposed to have guns but the Government screwed up.  This guy made his own illegal guns.  The only way to stop this is a "good guy" with a gun that can take him on as he starts.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

I've never used the slippery slope argument.  I've just said the gun is a fact of life in the US and it is impossible to get rid of them.

And since you admitted it is impossible to stop these type of shooters**, there is one solution left ... more guns and more "good guys" with conceal carried guns.

So you will demand we "do something" ... but not this. "Do something" is code for punishing legal gun owners.  Jockey is so far gone he blames legal gun owners (i.e., the NRA) for these shootings.  He does even know what the problem is anymore.

-----

** six weeks after Vegas they still don't have a motivate.  The Texas Chruch shooter was not supposed to have guns but the Government screwed up.  This guy made his own illegal guns.  The only way to stop this is a "good guy" with a gun that can take him on as he starts.

No one said it is impossible to stop these type of shooters. That's very different from saying all mass shootings cannot be eliminated. Try again.

Good guys with guns is not the solution.

[4everwarriors]

How do we sanction the politician who publicly admitted to going backstage at beauty pageants so he could leer at naked contestants as young as 15, and also publicly admitted grabby lady cats?

You’re right, Nads. Knot a donkey or an elephant. Just yo own man, hey?

[Tugg Speedman]

No one said it is impossible to stop these type of shooters. That's very different from saying all mass shootings cannot be eliminated. Try again.

Good guys with guns is not the solution.

So you want to rule that out.  And it cannot be stopped.  And the status quo cannot remain.

Then what do you want?  Just to scream on a message board so you feel better?

[GGGG]

"Do something" is code for punishing legal gun owners. 

If restricting people's access to certain guns, making people register their guns with the government and limiting those with mental illnesses from getting guns, is "punishment" in your eyes, so be it.

Or you can propose doing nothing and continue to watch people die.  A good guy with a gun did not prevent Vegas.  It did not prevent Texas.  It will not prevent the next.

The people who find any excuse for inaction, such as yourself, are in very much in a way responsible for the continued carnage. YOU are a toadie for the gun industry.  Despite all your supposed intellectualism, you are being lead around by a bunch of people who care only about their wallets.   Blood is on YOUR hands my friend.  YOU are part of the problem. 

[tower912]

How do we sanction the politician who publicly admitted to going backstage at beauty pageants so he could leer at naked contestants as young as 15, and also publicly admitted grabby lady cats?

Hold politicians you agree with to a high standard.  Expect the patrons of politicians you disagree with to do the same.