Maymon to Mu

[Tugg Speedman]

A couple of key quotes from the Mark Miller article:

“They guaranteed me a starting spot, but I know I will have to work hard to keep that starting spot,” Maymon said.

Did Buzz really guarantee him a starting spot?  Is that wise?  Combined with his comment that he'll have to "work hard to keep that starting spot," what exactly does it mean to have a guaranteed starting spot?  I thought a guarantee meant you would not have to work hard to keep it.  If you work hard to earn it, then a guarantee is not necessary.  Was he guaranteed to start his first game, or eventually if he worked hard?

Please explain???

[ChicosBailBonds]

It wasn't just grades.  Maymon wasn't really considered to be a high major prospect until the end of the prep season, but his game exploded over the last few months.  Prior to that his only high major interest was from Baylor and Clemson.  The rest of the schools were places like UWM, UWGB, Temple etc. 

He definitely blew up of late, but UW-Madison and the state schools knew of the grades issue long ago.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Did Buzz really guarantee him a starting spot?  Is that wise?  Combined with his comment that he'll have to "work hard to keep that starting spot," what exactly does it mean to have a guaranteed starting spot?  I thought a guarantee meant you would not have to work hard to keep it.  If you work hard to earn it, then a guarantee is not necessary.  Was he guaranteed to start his first game, or eventually if he worked hard?

Please explain???

I don't believe in guaranteeing anything to any recruit....definitely a change from the previous regime.  Hope this makes sense.  Sounds like if you think you're good enough, you can make some demands.  Steve Lavin used to do that out here at UCLA.  Certainly helped him land some great players but some would argue presented some other issues regarding team chemistry, etc.

[nola03]

It wasn't just grades.  Maymon wasn't really considered to be a high major prospect until the end of the prep season, but his game exploded over the last few months.  Prior to that his only high major interest was from Baylor and Clemson.  The rest of the schools were places like UWM, UWGB, Temple etc. 

I don't know about that.......I remember reading and hearing about Maymon quite a bit when Nankivil was still at Memorial. A lot of people felt he had the talent level and physical maturity to play college basketball but almost immediately upon people discussing him there was always a "yeah....but" and then either the academics or misbehavior story would follow.

[THEGYMBAR]

Chico's----If Buzz made a starting promise it is a major mistake. That is my only fear with Buzz...he might make promises to get players. You cannot do that for long. I hope he did not promise anything, but I have a feeling that he did. The quicker you recruit from strength the better. We do not want to have a Lavin situation. I tried to ignore the promise but it is a black cloud to me if true.

[MarquetteDano]

Chico's----If Buzz made a starting promise it is a major mistake. That is my only fear with Buzz...he might make promises to get players. You cannot do that for long. I hope he did not promise anything, but I have a feeling that he did. The quicker you recruit from strength the better. We do not want to have a Lavin situation. I tried to ignore the promise but it is a black cloud to me if true.

I am repeating from another post, but this REALLY worries me.  How can you make this sort of promise.  In the 2-4 positions, we have Cubillan, Hayward, Butler, Mbakwe, E. Williams, Fulce..  I read in his father's interview 25-30 minutes a game!  I hope he was exaggerating.  You just can't make that kind of promise unless this is next Beasley or something.

[THEGYMBAR]

A coach should never promise a starting spot. No one needed to promise Beasley because he knew he would start virtually anywhere. A small fear here, but promises usually = trouble. Lets hope that Buzz is recruiting from strength and not empty promises. I don't care if we have one guy at that position or 22 guys you never make a promise.

When I think of making promises the first thing that comes to mind is slippery. Lavin is scary comparison.

[bma725]

I don't know about that.......I remember reading and hearing about Maymon quite a bit when Nankivil was still at Memorial. A lot of people felt he had the talent level and physical maturity to play college basketball but almost immediately upon people discussing him there was always a "yeah....but" and then either the academics or misbehavior story would follow.

People felt he had the talent level to be a D-1 player sure, but not high major until very recently.  Remember, up until the updates of a few weeks ago, Maymon was not even thought of as a top 100 player.   He was a 3 star fringe top 150 player.  Now he's a 4 star top 60 player.  For over a year, he had a total of two high major offers.  Since mid-April he received offers from MU, Tennessee, Iowa State and USC.  In that time, the academic concerns haven't changed, and there are still questions about his behavior.  What has changed is his play.  He had one of the most dominating performances in State Tournament history.  He was consistently at a high level during the regular season, and he's been very good in AAU ball.  He's turned out a lot better than people though he would even just 6 months ago.

[mug644]

If Buzz made a starting promise it is a major mistake. That is my only fear with Buzz...he might make promises to get players. You cannot do that for long. I hope he did not promise anything, but I have a feeling that he did.

How surprised can we be that Buzz might make a questionable promise, what with the incredible pressure to overcome the poor hire that he is?! MU fans have put him in a really challenging position, with little room for growth. He knows he needs to perform, and quickly, or MU nation is going to come down hard.

That said, it does really worry me that Maymon's commitment seems to highlight two undesirables: offering promises of starting and a certain number of minutes, and putting the university in a position were the athletic department wants the university to accept someone who barely squeaks by with his grades and scores. Aren't MU's admission standards higher than that? They were when I was there (even for people in the Freshman Frontier Program, lovingly known as Freshman Fu**-ups!). I was really turned off my Maymon's dad's comments that seemed to imply that getting by and qualifying was acceptable to him.

[Pakuni]

That said, it does really worry me that Maymon's commitment seems to highlight two undesirables: offering promises of starting and a certain number of minutes, and putting the university in a position were the athletic department wants the university to accept someone who barely squeaks by with his grades and scores.

Ever hear of a guy named Dwyane Wade?
Maymon certainly isn't the first MU recruit who's needed to do some work in the classroom in order to qualify, and he won't be the last. Heck, the academics of the top recruit in each of Crean's last two classes were gone over with a fine-tooth comb by the NCAA before they were declared eligible.
In a perfect world, Maymon and every MU recruit would be a 3.8 GPA or better student with a 31 ACT. But that's not the case now, nor has it ever been.

[mug644]

Ever hear of a guy named Dwyane Wade?
Maymon certainly isn't the first MU recruit who's needed to do some work in the classroom in order to qualify, and he won't be the last. Heck, the academics of the top recruit in each of Crean's last two classes were gone over with a fine-tooth comb by the NCAA before they were declared eligible.
In a perfect world, Maymon and every MU recruit would be a 3.8 GPA or better student with a 31 ACT. But that's not the case now, nor has it ever been.

Wade came under the umbrella of partial-qualifier, a wise, yet now extinct practice of the NCAA. I'm was a big fan of the partial-qualifier rule.

Hayward and Mbakwe were hyper-reviewed, not for their grades or scores, but for the institutions that had granted their diplomas. There is a difference.

I'm not opposed to granting admission leniency to some athletes (especially given MU's commitment to and track of academic success and graduation). If anything, I worry that one of Buzz's first commitments might be coming from the need to lower our standards a bit, if only because we (MU nation) are putting great, perhaps unrealistic, pressure on him to perform. I don't want this example of guaranteeing playing time and of lowering admission standards to become regular practice, and I assume you don't either.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I find it funny how Chicos always comes to the defense of Crean even though it is nearly universally recognized that he proved to be pretty lousey at recruiting forwards.   I would like to mention that Hayward was projected to be a "2" out of prep school (he played the 2 in prep school) and was not projected to play the "4" like he has been at MU.  It was only the logjam at guards that forced him to play at the "4."  Chicos, here is a challange, name one "Crean"  forward recruit (besides Hayward who is really a guard playing out of position) amongst the list you mentioned, or not on the list you mentioned, that has had a positive impact on the program.  RJax is the only forward who comes to mind but is he really a Crean recruit?   The results have been mixed at best.  I hope Buzz can right the ship here. 

On the other hand, college ball is a guards game and having lots of highly ranked forwards will not do us any good if we don't have the guards who can get them the ball and can play defense.   I have always said, you need balance. 

I have to assume you think a small forward is a forward.  Lazar Hayward was recruited as a small forward and shooting guard, but as a 3 first to play at Marquette, not a 2 as you suggested.  Is he out of position at the 4...yes and I would agree he was not recruited to play the 4.  But he was still recruited to play as a 3 primarily and then slide over as a 2.

Lazar Hayward...Small Forward 4 star recruit for Marquette (link below)
http://rivalshoops.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?pr_key=39578&Sport=2

Secondly, some guy named Steve Novak...a wing forward...made a positive impact at Marquette I believe.

I'd add Scott Merritt into that group as a positive impact. 

Marcus Jackson.  Odartey Blankson.  Dan Fitzgerald.  Etc.  Many have made positive impacts...I don't know what that definition means to you.

I have high hopes for Erik Williams...who signed with MU while Crean was head coach.  I have high hopes for Trevor Mbakwe, another top 100 player, who signed while Crean was head coach.

I don't think Crean has a problem signing forwards....he had a problem signing high level POWER FORWARDS...but he continued to get plenty of solid small forwards over the years.

[Pakuni]

Wade came under the umbrella of partial-qualifier, a wise, yet now extinct practice of the NCAA. I'm was a big fan of the partial-qualifier rule.

Hayward and Mbakwe were hyper-reviewed, not for their grades or scores, but for the institutions that had granted their diplomas. There is a difference.

I'm not opposed to granting admission leniency to some athletes (especially given MU's commitment to and track of academic success and graduation). If anything, I worry that one of Buzz's first commitments might be coming from the need to lower our standards a bit, if only because we (MU nation) are putting great, perhaps unrealistic, pressure on him to perform. I don't want this example of guaranteeing playing time and of lowering admission standards to become regular practice, and I assume you don't either.

A few points:

- I'm not sure how you can call youself a big fan of the partial-qualifier rule, then question Marquette for accepting a committment from a kid who will have to be a full qualifier to gain admission. How is it that partial qualifiers are OK, but accepting a kid who has to do some work to become a full qualifier is dubious?

- Mbakwe's issues had nothing to do with the school that gave him diplomas. It was an issue of whether he had successfully completed enough "core" courses to be eligible. Regardless, both are recent examples of kids with academic questions marks who were recruited and committed to Marquette without the kind of fanfare Maymon's academics have drawn.

- I certainly don't want MU to make a regular habit of lowering its admission standards. And at this point, we have no evidence that Maymon has been or will be treated any differently than any past recruit.

[mug644]

Thanks for the feedback.

-I'm a big fan of the partial qualifier rule because it allowed schools with (relatively) higher standards (such as MU) to accept athletes (such as Dwyane Wade) with the obligation to help them achieve a certain level academically before they could play their sport. Fits in perfectly with MU's commitment to academics, and I had no problem with admissions within that context. Perhaps I have a gripe with the NCAA rather than MU in this regard.

-Still, you ask "How is it that partial qualifiers are OK, but accepting a kid who has to do some work to become a full qualifier is dubious?" Maybe I sense a difference between a risk and an investment. Wade was an investment, where NCAA rule allowed (and encouraged?) schools such as MU to accept athletes that didn't quite cut the mustard, giving them a year to help them qualify on campus. Wade got to be with the team, with MU paying his way, (and stories abound that he was already the star of the team) while he was ineligible to play (without losing any of his 4 years of eligibility). It was a positive situation all the way around.

The situation with Maymon, I fear, is that he needs to meet NCAA standards in high school, and MU doesn't have an opportunity to academically support him. That's how it is a risk. First, we don't know if he'll qualify, nevermind meet MU admissions standards. Then, MU doesn't have the luxury (afforded by the partial qualifier rule) to help him be eligible.

To me, there is a difference between a partial qualifier (which no longer exists) and someone who must be a full qualifier but might not meet MU standards.

-I may be wrong, but I recall that Mbakwe changed schools, and it was a question of where he took those core courses. Regardless, your point is well made. Does it change my fear that admissions are being lessened (though it does indeed change my fear that they are being lessened in the Buzz era)?

My hope is that Maymon qualifies, that MU supports him academically and athletically, and that he graduates while helping the team achieve success during his 4 years.

[downtown85]

I have to assume you think a small forward is a forward.  Lazar Hayward was recruited as a small forward and shooting guard, but as a 3 first to play at Marquette, not a 2 as you suggested.  Is he out of position at the 4...yes and I would agree he was not recruited to play the 4.  But he was still recruited to play as a 3 primarily and then slide over as a 2.

Lazar Hayward...Small Forward 4 star recruit for Marquette (link below)
http://rivalshoops.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?pr_key=39578&Sport=2

Secondly, some guy named Steve Novak...a wing forward...made a positive impact at Marquette I believe.

I'd add Scott Merritt into that group as a positive impact. 

Marcus Jackson.  Odartey Blankson.  Dan Fitzgerald.  Etc.  Many have made positive impacts...I don't know what that definition means to you.

I have high hopes for Erik Williams...who signed with MU while Crean was head coach.  I have high hopes for Trevor Mbakwe, another top 100 player, who signed while Crean was head coach.

I don't think Crean has a problem signing forwards....he had a problem signing high level POWER FORWARDS...but he continued to get plenty of solid small forwards over the years.

Yes, you are correct.  Novak was great (particularly his senior year) and even though he sort of played the small forward position on offense and PF on defense.  I would say Crean occasionally (i.e., Novak) got a good small forward but at the classic PF and C positions for whatever reason he couldn't close the deal. 

Look at Creans recruiting of projected PF and C positions since 2003.  I use scout as a reference.  I know to most on this board this is not news (we all know Crean sucked at recruiting bigs) but to others it might be news.  To me, it warms my heart that Buzz is able to walk into the living room of a highly rated PF recruit and close the deal. 

2003
PF James Matthews (not ranked)
PF Marcus Jackson (JC Transfer)
2004
Ryan Amoroso (not ranked)
Ousmane Barro (17th best Center, not in Scouts or RSCI top 100)
Mike Kinsella (JC transfer)
2005
Dwight Burke (unranked)
Jamil Lott (JC transfer)
2006
No PF or C recruited according to Scout
2007
Patrick Hazel (unranked)
Trevor Mbakwe (Scout's 30th best PF, not in scout top 100, RSCI 91st)

I can only hope that looking back after Buzz's first 5 years at MU the recruiting record on bigs will be better than our last 5 has been.  If we include small forwards, Hayward is the only true quality one we got in the years mentioned. Barro and MJax were adequate but hardly upper tier BE quality.  Trevor is still a question mark but I remain hopeful.  I predict Buzz's record at recruiting bigs will be better since 1) he is off to a good start, and 2) it can't be much worse than the last 5 recruiting classes.  That being said, Buzz needs to show balance in recruiting.  We not only need highly rated forwards but highly rated guards as well.

[ChicosBailBonds]

We agree...power forwards were the problem. 

I just hope looking back 5 years from now we are at the level we are today, that will be my criteria for determining if we were successful or not as a program.  A top 25 team, top half of the Big East, no NCAA violations, kids graduating.

[Jay Bee]

Jeronne retired from basketball.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Jeronne retired from basketball.

His quote about leaving MU and then starting with TN shows some maturity. 

[Earl Tatum]

Great story about Jeronne. Have to have a lot of  "GUTS" to have those surgeries and then
again play basketball. Surprised me with his "Love" for the game. To him, physical health in his
later years was more important.

[MU82]

That quote about being unhappy with his playing time at Marquette only to find himself in the same situation more than a year later at Tennessee after having sat out as a transfer should be must-reading for every recruit.

I agree that Maymon being able to talk about it so candidly shows how much he has matured. It also might represent what he can say now that Daddy isn't saying it for him.

[jesmu84]

Where is dad going to get his money now?

[4everwarriors]

Happy for him. Sounds like Jeronne is quite intelligent and has matured tremendously over the past 5 years, ai na?

[Tugg Speedman]

Best part of the story ....

While he was sidelined during the 2013 Spring semester, Maymon took 18 credit hours and posted an impressive 3.34 GPA. He received his Psychology degree on May 9, 2014.

Good for J-May!  He made great use of his opportunity.

[barfolomew]

Best part of the story ....

While he was sidelined during the 2013 Spring semester, Maymon took 18 credit hours and posted an impressive 3.34 GPA. He received his Psychology degree on May 9, 2014.

Good for J-May!  He made great use of his opportunity.

So he could have just been playing mind games with us?

[Dawson Rental]

Like Noskowiak, a top Wisconsin player that the Badgers learned enough about to not go after who ended up a MU recruit for a short time.  Lesson to be learned, if there's a great player from the Madison area that Wisconsin isn't showing interest in, it's probably best to do the same.

Hopefully, Nick will start a similar journey soon.

It probably benefited Jeronnie's maturity greatly to get some physical distance between himself, his dad and his AAU coach.  Maybe, Nick would do best starting over again somewhere a distance away, as well.