Are we better than last year?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Are we better than last year?  Yes or no?

Is progress from last year to this year being made?  Yes or no?

Are we staying out of the news for all the wrong reasons?  Yes or no?


I know my answer is yes on all fronts.   We will get better and show progress.  If not, then things will change, but think of this through the eyes of an AD, a President, etc.  Some of you sound like IU fans, and they are the absolute worst.  Don't be like them.

[Loose Cannon]

 YES

[tower912]

Yes, yes, and meh. 

[WarriorPride68]

You know it! 13-19 (4-14) will be hard to reciprocate.

[tower912]

You know it! 13-19 (4-14) will be hard to reciprocate.

'Reciprocate'?    Gotta believe the autocorrect got you.

[WarriorPride68]

'Reciprocate'?    Gotta believe the autocorrect got you.

  repeat*

[Nukem2]

Yes, we are better and progress is being made during what I've maintained is truly a classic rebuilding year.  Peaks and valleys.  Wins on the road at Bucky and Providence.  A loss at home to DePaul at the buzzer having a two point lead.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Yes, yes, and meh.

Again, look at it through the eyes of an AD and a President.  Meh may not mean much to the JUST WIN BABY crowd, I guarantee you it means a TON to those guys, to many donors, etc.  It matters, whether fans like it or not.  For other schools, it doesn't matter to the administration....at ours...it does.

[Warrior of Law]

Clearly the team is better than last year.  We all realize this isn't much an achievement.  The better question is whether MU is improving.  To answer that question, it comes down to whether HE stays another year.  If he does, then next year's team will continue the arc of progress over a 3-year period.  If he leaves, then the team likely takes another significant step back and this season was another waste.  Therefore, if HE leaves after this year, it will have stunted MU's team growth as his minutes could have gone to someone who will help be competitive in the 2016-17 season.  In that case, it may have been better off without his signing.

I do think HE stays another year, and next year's team will be significantly better.

[Norm]

I think the record may be a little better than last year, but a lot of that has to do with all the cupcakes they were able to beat before conference play started and Wisconsin having a down year too. Looking at the rest of the schedule, I don't see very many games that they are likely to win. Maybe at St. John's and at DePaul being the most likely.

I really don't see much progress being made from last year to this year either, as the team continually makes the same mistakes game after game - not getting in position to rebound, turning the ball over, continually taking 3 point shots that they hardly ever make, soft perimeter defense, missing the front end of many 1-and-1's, etc.

I'm not sure what staying out of the news for all the wrong reasons is supposed to imply, unless that refers to players not getting in to compromising situations and/or bar brawls. If that's the case, then they are at least staying out of trouble, which is good.

I will admit I was not wild about the Wojo hire. I actually posted here after the hiring that a friend of mine that is a Duke grad and I were joking about MU hiring Wojo a couple days before the hire and were floored that MU actually went ahead and hired him. I am not on the fire Wojo bandwagon at all, and I think you need to give a coach at least three years to see where the trajectory of the program is going (recruiting, player development, wins and loses, etc.), but I am alarmed that we could see back-to-back really bad Big East seasons where we finish at or near the bottom. Yes, we are playing a lot of freshmen, but so are a lot of other schools. If these freshman do not show improvement next year, then I think we need to seriously think about where the program is going.

Then again, I'm just an alum who has absolutely no say in the program other than inconsequential posts on a fan base message board. I will support MU and the team no matter the record. I just hope Wojo can turn the team around in the next year or so.

[Stretchdeltsig]

Yes. Yes. And yes.  I like the talent on this team.  I love the great team chemistry between the players and coaches.  I think the team makes mistakes and missed shots because they are a young team.  The Big East is a tough conference.  I expected t that our shooting will improve with maturity.   Our young players, Sandy, Haniff, Anim, Henry and Tracy seemed to pass up good shots at times and then never find the grove.  We have the makings of a very good team.

[NotAnAlum]

Chicos
The truth is there is a continuum going from the complete "win at any cost" programs (like Huggins used to run at Cincy) and the "we never do anything wrong" programs like Northwestern.  With the former as a 1 and the latter as a 10 I would say that MU under Buzz vacillated between a 4 and a 6.  The fear that I have is that the administration may have set their sights on driving the program towards a 9.5.  Hiring Wojo and giving him marching orders to become the "Duke of the North".  My problem is that there is only one Duke and it is very difficult to draw the type of talent they have to chose from.  To say that we won't take any chances with players so we are assured of "never being in the news for the wrong reasons" will likely lead MU on a trajectory like Northwestern.  Its simply a fact of basketball that a disproportionate number of the most talented and toughest kids come from urban settings and their upbringing comes with baggage and potential risks.  I'm not a win at any costs guy but also I'm not interested in supporting a team that mirrors Northwestern in their success or lack there of.  So while its nice that the program currently passes the white glove test I'm a little concerned that we may have pushed the program too far.  Give me a program that is a 6 and I'll live the fact that some percentage of kids are going to give you problems and you'll just have to deal with it.  That's why ADs and Presidents get paid the big bucks.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Chicos
The truth is there is a continuum going from the complete "win at any cost" programs (like Huggins used to run at Cincy) and the "we never do anything wrong" programs like Northwestern.  With the former as a 1 and the latter as a 10 I would say that MU under Buzz vacillated between a 4 and a 6.  The fear that I have is that the administration may have set their sights on driving the program towards a 9.5.  Hiring Wojo and giving him marching orders to become the "Duke of the North".  My problem is that there is only one Duke and it is very difficult to draw the type of talent they have to chose from.  To say that we won't take any chances with players so we are assured of "never being in the news for the wrong reasons" will likely lead MU on a trajectory like Northwestern.  Its simply a fact of basketball that a disproportionate number of the most talented and toughest kids come from urban settings and their upbringing comes with baggage and potential risks.  I'm not a win at any costs guy but also I'm not interested in supporting a team that mirrors Northwestern in their success or lack there of.  So while its nice that the program currently passes the white glove test I'm a little concerned that we may have pushed the program too far.  Give me a program that is a 6 and I'll live the fact that some percentage of kids are going to give you problems and you'll just have to deal with it.  That's why ADs and Presidents get paid the big bucks.

I have no such fear.  I think MU wants to be the 7 to 8 range.  Besides, we have landed very good recruits, it is not preventing us from landing quality young men.  We are young, inexperienced, not mature physically.  That comes with time.  I have zero doubts with the money being spent that we don't want to be very competitive and that is why Wojo took the job.  No fears whatsoever on that front.  They do expect players not to be in the news for the wrong reasons, they do expect their coaching staff not to lie to their bosses....that should be a requirement whether we are a 1 or a 10 IMO. 

[Lennys Tap]

Chicos
The truth is there is a continuum going from the complete "win at any cost" programs (like Huggins used to run at Cincy) and the "we never do anything wrong" programs like Northwestern.  With the former as a 1 and the latter as a 10 I would say that MU under Buzz vacillated between a 4 and a 6.  The fear that I have is that the administration may have set their sights on driving the program towards a 9.5.  Hiring Wojo and giving him marching orders to become the "Duke of the North".  My problem is that there is only one Duke and it is very difficult to draw the type of talent they have to chose from.  To say that we won't take any chances with players so we are assured of "never being in the news for the wrong reasons" will likely lead MU on a trajectory like Northwestern.  Its simply a fact of basketball that a disproportionate number of the most talented and toughest kids come from urban settings and their upbringing comes with baggage and potential risks.  I'm not a win at any costs guy but also I'm not interested in supporting a team that mirrors Northwestern in their success or lack there of.  So while its nice that the program currently passes the white glove test I'm a little concerned that we may have pushed the program too far.  Give me a program that is a 6 and I'll live the fact that some percentage of kids are going to give you problems and you'll just have to deal with it.  That's why ADs and Presidents get paid the big bucks.

Very well said. Nobody at that 8 -10 or 1-3 level you speak of competes for National Championships. They play in the Patriot League or the SWAC. Everybody that plays big time football or basketball falls between 4 and 7. At a school like MU there's little margin for error. I'd rather be a 5.5 or a 6 winning Big East titles and going to the Elite 8 instead of a 7 at the bottom of the conference. I don't think that's "Just win, baby" - but if some ignorant self important alums want to call it that so be it.

[jsheim]

Are we better than last year?  Yes
Is progress from last year to this year being made?  Yes
Are we staying out of the news for all the wrong reasons?  Yes

Packers keep everyone out of the news...respect levels around here:

1. Packers
2. Badgers
3. Brewers
4. Bucks
5. MU
6.
7.
8.
9.
10. UWM - I hope they win their conference tourney...I like their radio guy.

[willie warrior]

Marginally better than last year, but not by a lot. Still a youthful team. Frosh are up and down, which is what many teams get from their frosh. We do not have a Sr. on the team, and Wojo's rotations are dubious. So this will be another struggle year. You start to wonder if we are even better than early Dec.
Carter seems to be struggling, and Cohen has taken a down turn. Fischer is up and down, as is Duane, who does not even start. HE keeps pumping up 3's when he has not proven to be capable. Lots and lots of work needs to be done.

[Lennys Tap]

Asking if we're better than last year is beside the point. We were terrible then, so marginal improvement with a top 10 freshman class and our most heralded recruit in decades is meaningless.

The question should be:

1.Are we better than we were last month?

2.Are we better than we were two months ago?

3.Are we as good as Wojo thought we'd be?

I'd say no, no and no.

[tower912]

Again, look at it through the eyes of an AD and a President.  Meh may not mean much to the JUST WIN BABY crowd, I guarantee you it means a TON to those guys, to many donors, etc.  It matters, whether fans like it or not.  For other schools, it doesn't matter to the administration....at ours...it does.

I'm not 'just win, baby'.   I viewed the issues under Buzz as episodic, not systemic.  You viewed it the other way.   Pilarz and Larry came in and made decisions based on the notion they were systemic.    Does it matter at IU?   I realize it may seem like I am being snarky, but I have always been puzzled why, with all of your animus toward what happened at MU under Buzz, you are still defending Crean with all of the off court issues at IU.   I get that you genuinely liked Crean and genuinely disliked Buzz, but don't the off court issues at IU make you even slightly uncomfortable?

[keefe]

don't the off court issues at IU make you even slightly uncomfortable?

[WarriorFan]

Yes, Yes, and Yes...

I think, however, there is a 4th question... are we positioned for future success in the BEAST, and from my perspective the jury is still out on that. 
- We need to see Wojo adjust recruiting from "duke style" players like Cheatham and Henry to add a few bruisers.
- We need shooters, and I think we're learning that Wisconsin High School shooters do not translate into Big East shooters
- We need an experienced offense oriented assistant coach who brings in a system that can work in the Big East. 

I do see a new level of integrity in the program and as an alumni I'm pretty happy with that.  I was a Brent supporter, but watching the whole Brent thing was like watching a hockey game... you're only there because you know at some point it's going to disintegrate into an all-out brawl. 

[MU82]

Looking at the rest of the schedule, I don't see very many games that they are likely to win. Maybe at St. John's and at DePaul being the most likely.

I really don't see much progress being made from last year to this year either

Point 1: Looking at the rest of the schedule after the IUPUI game, did you see them as likely to win 2 in Brooklyn and at Wisconsin? Looking at the rest of the schedule after the Seton Hall game, did you see them as likely to win at Providence? Looking at the rest of the schedule after the Providence win, did you see them as likely to lose at home to DePaul?

Can we just see what happens from here, please?

Point 2: Last year's team had no prayer of getting the kind of narrow victories over decent to very good teams that this year's team already has 4 of.

We do make a lot of mistakes. I mean, you'd think we had a bunch of freshmen or something.

[Norm]

Point 1: Looking at the rest of the schedule after the IUPUI game, did you see them as likely to win 2 in Brooklyn and at Wisconsin? Looking at the rest of the schedule after the Seton Hall game, did you see them as likely to win at Providence? Looking at the rest of the schedule after the Providence win, did you see them as likely to lose at home to DePaul?

Can we just see what happens from here, please?

Point 2: Last year's team had no prayer of getting the kind of narrow victories over decent to very good teams that this year's team already has 4 of.

We do make a lot of mistakes. I mean, you'd think we had a bunch of freshmen or something.

Yeah, I thought they could win at least one  in Brooklyn because the teams they played are only average teams. LSU, even with Ben Simmons, is not a good team - mediocre at best. ASU is also inconsistent. And I sure thought they could beat WI because they are a shell of what they were the last couple years.

I was pleasantly surprised that they beat Providence. I did not expect that at all. At the same time, I actually thought DePaul was going to give us trouble because the last several years they have given us fits and have beaten us several times. DePaul believes they can beat us and the play like it, with a little more energy than they do against other teams.

Look, the Big East has a lot of good teams. MU just does not match up with a lot of them, and it is going to be a struggle to win games the rest of the way. Unless we suddenly cut down on the same mistakes the players make most every game, suddenly find an outside shooting touch and suddenly start playing tough perimeter defense, its going to be a slog the rest of the way.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'm not 'just win, baby'.   I viewed the issues under Buzz as episodic, not systemic.  You viewed it the other way.   Pilarz and Larry came in and made decisions based on the notion they were systemic.    Does it matter at IU?   I realize it may seem like I am being snarky, but I have always been puzzled why, with all of your animus toward what happened at MU under Buzz, you are still defending Crean with all of the off court issues at IU.   I get that you genuinely liked Crean and genuinely disliked Buzz, but don't the off court issues at IU make you even slightly uncomfortable?

I rank sexual assault and rape much worse than college kids drinking, but yes I was uncomfortable.  Glad those players are gone.

I'm not defending Crean, my animus at Buzz comes from other things I know.  "You also don't get that I genuinely liked Crean".....I have NEVER said that and continuously said what a prick he was, so honestly if you have been paying attention ever I don't know how you could say that I said that.  NEVER have said it.  I can't count the number of times I said he is a prick to deal with, etc...way too many to count.  Where I would "defend" him is when I would correct people saying complete falsehoods.  I also would laugh at the number of times he has been "fired" here on this board because our fans are either stupid or just so emotionally vacant they couldn't process things properly. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Very well said. Nobody at that 8 -10 or 1-3 level you speak of competes for National Championships. They play in the Patriot League or the SWAC. Everybody that plays big time football or basketball falls between 4 and 7. At a school like MU there's little margin for error. I'd rather be a 5.5 or a 6 winning Big East titles and going to the Elite 8 instead of a 7 at the bottom of the conference. I don't think that's "Just win, baby" - but if some ignorant self important alums want to call it that so be it.

Id put Kentucky, Louisville, and North Carolina in the 1 to 3 level and Duke in the 8 to 10....so every team not named Connecticut who has won a national championship in the last 7 years

[Mutaman]

I rank sexual assault and rape much worse than college kids drinking, but yes I was uncomfortable.  Glad those players are gone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-O8kRTVkjEI