Keno Davis

[mviale]

I remember some felt he would have been a better option than Buzz.  How do you feel now?

[ChicosBailBonds]

I remember some felt he would have been a better option than Buzz.  How do you feel now?

Ask in 3 or 4 more years when true evaluations can be done.  If we lose at Providence does the question get asked again?

I remember someone saying Maymon's dad seemed like a good guy...how do you feel now.  

[mviale]

Yes, some coaches need 3-4 years. 

[Rocco]

Keno is a terrible coach.  He seems to get good talent at PC, but his teams are very undisciplined.  Poor shot selection, terrible defense, and some questionable character.  There is no question Buzz is a better coach than Keno.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Yes, some coaches need 3-4 years. 

Of course....all situations are different.  Some coaches inherit great teams others do not, thus the need for time to evaluate. 

Would it be fair to evaluate Buzz after one year at New Orleans? 

[WxWarrior]

Ask in 3 or 4 more years when true evaluations can be done.  If we lose at Providence does the question get asked again?

I remember someone saying Maymon's dad seemed like a good guy...how do you feel now.  

I may be new around here, but you are truly blinded by your love for the tanned one.  Yes, the question gets asked again and the answer is still a resounding YES!

[marquette99]

As the only person in the world who went to both the kentucky at auburn and providence at marquette games this weekend (I actually have season tickets to both), I can tell you the way we moved the ball and shot the trey today we would have had no problem beating kentucky this weekend, much less providence without the ejection.  Let's hope for another day like this in mid-march in the ncaa opening round.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I may be new around here, but you are truly blinded by your love for the tanned one.  Yes, the question gets asked again and the answer is still a resounding YES!

A) You're not new around here

B) I thought we were talking about Keno, why did you bring up the other guy...strange for a "new" guy around here to be bringing it up.

LOL   

[NersEllenson]

Good question you pose.  I'd take Buzz Williams over Keno Davis, Tony Bennett, Anthony Grant, Sean Miller...or any of the other coaches we "hoped" for after Tom Crean left.  Buzz has been an underdog his whole life, has had to work for everything he's gotten in the coaching game - not having been a former NCAA basketball player.  This team is a direct reflection of who Buzz Williams is:  tough, ultra competitive, huge heart, getting the most out of individual potential, disciplined, and intelligent.  GO BUZZ!!

[Hards Alumni]

Oddly enough I agree with Chicos here.

what is this world coming to?

[ATWizJr]

Oddly enough I agree with Chicos here.

what is this world coming to?

One of you is getting smarter.  (Sorry Chico's, for preempting you!)  JK  LOL.

[ATWizJr]

Keno is a terrible coach.  He seems to get good talent at PC, but his teams are very undisciplined.  Poor shot selection, terrible defense, and some questionable character.  There is no question Buzz is a better coach than Keno.

BTW, the former coach of the year is now a terrible coach?  Get real.  The PC job is among the most challenging in the country and certainly in the BE.  Look at the coaches who have been there, left and had success elsewhere, e.g., Pitino, Barnes.  The PC job is a tough gig.

[JWags85]

While I don't agree that he is a terrible coach, watching Providence yesterday was so foreign after watching his Drake team of a few years ago.  A team that was undermanned talent wise, but got it done from buying into a system.  Not a group of chuckers like we saw yesterday.

[GGGG]

BTW, the former coach of the year is now a terrible coach?  Get real.  The PC job is among the most challenging in the country and certainly in the BE.  Look at the coaches who have been there, left and had success elsewhere, e.g., Pitino, Barnes.  The PC job is a tough gig.

Keno Davis benefited greatly from a team of four-year seniors and a relatively weak MVC.  I'm sure he's a decent coach, but like many of those who win "coach of the year" awards, it is mostly given for surpassing low expectations rather than on pure coaching ability.

[ATWizJr]

Keno Davis benefited greatly from a team of four-year seniors and a relatively weak MVC.  I'm sure he's a decent coach, but like many of those who win "coach of the year" awards, it is mostly given for surpassing low expectations rather than on pure coaching ability.

National expectations for Drake were low and that's why he won the award?  Really?

[bma725]

National expectations for Drake were low and that's why he won the award?  Really?

That's generally how most coaches win that type of award.  Some team isn't expected to do well, and they do, it must be because a coach did a great job.

[79Warrior]

I may be new around here, but you are truly blinded by your love for the tanned one.  Yes, the question gets asked again and the answer is still a resounding YES!

Who mentioned Crean besides you? He was not in the topic.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Good question you pose.  I'd take Buzz Williams over Keno Davis, Tony Bennett, Anthony Grant, Sean Miller...or any of the other coaches we "hoped" for after Tom Crean left.  Buzz has been an underdog his whole life, has had to work for everything he's gotten in the coaching game - not having been a former NCAA basketball player.  This team is a direct reflection of who Buzz Williams is:  tough, ultra competitive, huge heart, getting the most out of individual potential, disciplined, and intelligent.  GO BUZZ!!

He's doing a great job so far, but this is why I will remain consistent and stick with the 4 to 5 year evaluation.

He's still operating with significant contributions from players of the past regime (and utilizing them well).

Bennett is doing a very nice job at UVA in year one, but let's see how it goes down the road.  Arizona, I think Miller will do just fine down there.  Keno and Grant, who knows.  They have a long leash to figure it out.  I suspect our game at Providence will be much different than the game we played yesterday.

[WxWarrior]

Who mentioned Crean besides you? He was not in the topic.

I understand this... and it is not my intention to hijack a thread, nor do I have a personal vendetta against chico.  It just gets old, whenever someone even implies something positive about Buzz he has a difficult time acknowledging it.  And yes, you can be new to a board and still recognize this.

Yes, it is a small sample, but based on last year and what's transpired so far this season (and after watching PC run around with no direction whatsoever) I'm extremely confident MU made the proper hire.

Might I have to backtrack in 3-4 years?  It's possible, but for now I will continue to celebrate this team over achieving with Buzz as boss.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I understand this... and it is not my intention to hijack a thread, nor do I have a personal vendetta against chico.  It just gets old, whenever someone even implies something positive about Buzz he has a difficult time acknowledging it.  And yes, you can be new to a board and still recognize this.

Yes, it is a small sample, but based on last year and what's transpired so far this season (and after watching PC run around with no direction whatsoever) I'm extremely confident MU made the proper hire.

Might I have to backtrack in 3-4 years?  It's possible, but for now I will continue to celebrate this team over achieving with Buzz as boss.

Actually I say positive things about Buzz all the time, you just don't read them or ignore them...."new guy".

LOL.   

[WxWarrior]

Sure, I've read them.  Like the one above in parentheses.

[Skatastrophy]

Sure, I've read them.  Like the one above in parentheses.

I bet that if the mods check your IP you'll turn out to be a vanity account for someone that decided to troll Chicos a bit without trying to make yourself look bad.  Why else would someone start derailing threads in their first couple posts?

[pbiflyer]

He's doing a great job so far, but this is why I will remain consistent and stick with the 4 to 5 year evaluation.

He's still operating with significant contributions from players of the past regime (and utilizing them well).

Bennett is doing a very nice job at UVA in year one, but let's see how it goes down the road.  Arizona, I think Miller will do just fine down there.  Keno and Grant, who knows.  They have a long leash to figure it out.  I suspect our game at Providence will be much different than the game we played yesterday.

Man, Chico, you're tough. Thankfully, you aren't a Gator fan. I can see it now, yeah Urban won the National Championship in is second year, but the jury is still out for 2-3 more years.

[Jam Chowder]

Couple things:

1. Right now, it seems apparent that Buzz was absolutely the right hire. Class act in the way he conducts himself on and off the court (besides minor inexplicable flake-outs i.e. ripping Jimmie Mac, several strange post-game interviews, etc...), and an extremely diligent worker. He is open and honest about his weaknesses, which is very respectable for a guy in his position. He seems to command the respect of his players, and based on his success this year with what many deemed insufficient talent, is a great x's and o's guy. I think that we found a gem with this guy.

2. That being said, reserved optimism is never a bad way to go. Rip on Chicos all you want, but come on. It's been a season and a half. All indicators point to this being a GREAT direction for the program, but success is a fickle mistress in college bball. Nothing wrong with waiting to see what happens in the next season or two before we declare him the best thing since sliced bread.

3. As far as comparisons go... definitely take him over Keno at this point. I would also take him over II, II. I think his departure and the subsequent hiring of BuzzMaster 3000 was the best thing that could have happened for our program.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Man, Chico, you're tough. Thankfully, you aren't a Gator fan. I can see it now, yeah Urban won the National Championship in is second year, but the jury is still out for 2-3 more years.

Are you saying Buzz was the national coach of the year prior to coming here?  Let's compare apples to apples, shall we. 

If Buzz wins a national title in his second year at MU like Meyer did, I'll anoint him.

I was tough on Crean until year four...I'll stay consistent.

[VegasWarrior77]

Just curious... what happened to Buzz's running the equivalent of the distance to Indianapolis?  (I think that's what it was.)

[Lennys Tap]

Are you saying Buzz was the national coach of the year prior to coming here?  Let's compare apples to apples, shall we. 

If Buzz wins a national title in his second year at MU like Meyer did, I'll anoint him.

I was tough on Crean until year four...I'll stay consistent.

Didn't you say that if MU was 10-8 and made the tounnament that Buzz would deserve to be coach of the year? Not saying they will but under those circumstances is Buzz off probation?

[Pakuni]

BTW, the former coach of the year is now a terrible coach?  Get real.  The PC job is among the most challenging in the country and certainly in the BE.  Look at the coaches who have been there, left and had success elsewhere, e.g., Pitino, Barnes.  The PC job is a tough gig.

It's too soon to completely judge Keno (or Buzz, for that matter ... but I know who I prefer by a ton so far).

That said, you're vastly overstating the difficulty of the Providence gig and seem to be implying that Pitino and Barnes had a rough go of it there.

In fact, Pitino took them to a Final Four in just his second season. Barnes averaged 18 wins a year and made the NCAA three times in five seasons (including a Big East championship season). Dave Gavitt's teams were regulars in the tournament, back when it was 32 teams. We aren't exactly talking Northwestern here. It's a well-established program with a history of success (two Final Fours), good players, great coaches, excellent facilities, and membership in an elite conference. Nothing about the Providence gig makes it inherently more difficult than Marquette, Xavier or any number of similarly situated schools.
Among the most challenging in the country? Pfft.  

[ChicosBailBonds]

Didn't you say that if MU was 10-8 and made the tounnament that Buzz would deserve to be coach of the year? Not saying they will but under those circumstances is Buzz off probation?

In fact I said it again earlier today...I actually said if they make the NCAA tournament he should be Big East COY and yes, I said it again today.  But I think the award would actually go to Jamie Dixon if I were to guess.

And no, I still need 4 to 5 years.  Steve Lavin was coach of the year, Matt Doherty was National coach of the year....your favorite coach, Tom Crean, was COY as well (twice).    Until then, the best they get from me is "so far so good"

[GGGG]

National expectations for Drake were low and that's why he won the award?  Really?

Yes.  There are many other examples of that in the last 20 years.  Phil Martelli, Cliff Ellis, Matt Doherty, Larry Eustachy, Randy Ayers...  Just because you're coach of the year, that doesn't make you an elite coach.

[WxWarrior]

I bet that if the mods check your IP you'll turn out to be a vanity account for someone that decided to troll Chicos a bit without trying to make yourself look bad.  Why else would someone start derailing threads in their first couple posts?

Wow, you couldn't be more off base.  I have much better things to do with my time.  I guess I'm just a fan of Buzz AND MU. 

   

[ATWizJr]

It's too soon to completely judge Keno (or Buzz, for that matter ... but I know who I prefer by a ton so far).

That said, you're vastly overstating the difficulty of the Providence gig and seem to be implying that Pitino and Barnes had a rough go of it there.

In fact, Pitino took them to a Final Four in just his second season. Barnes averaged 18 wins a year and made the NCAA three times in five seasons (including a Big East championship season). Dave Gavitt's teams were regulars in the tournament, back when it was 32 teams. We aren't exactly talking Northwestern here. It's a well-established program with a history of success (two Final Fours), good players, great coaches, excellent facilities, and membership in an elite conference. Nothing about the Providence gig makes it inherently more difficult than Marquette, Xavier or any number of similarly situated schools.
Among the most challenging in the country? Pfft.  

Small Dominican school, off campus antiquasted arena, tough place  to recruit to.  If it was easy to succeed there, Pitino and Barnes would still be there.

[Pakuni]

Small Dominican school, off campus antiquasted arena, tough place  to recruit to.  If it was easy to succeed there, Pitino and Barnes would still be there.

The Dunkin Donuts Center received $80 million in renovations less than two years ago and is located about 2.5 miles from campus. It's hardly a DePaul-like situation. Heck, it's not that much farther than the BC is for most Marquette students. Georgetown plays in an arena further from their campus. Don't see it holding them back much.

I'd suggest big-money offers from the NBA and Clemson, respectively, had more to do with Pitino and Barnes leaving than with Providence being among the most difficult jobs in the country. I suppose one could say "If it were easy to succeed at Kansas, Larry Brown and Roy Williams would still be there."

What makes Providence more difficult to recruit to than, say, Storrs, Conn.? Or Manhattan, Kan.?  Or West Lafayette, Ind. (eeww)?Or, for that matter, Milwaukee, Wis.?

[Rocco]

I honestly could care less about accolades.  That team I saw MU beat by 30 sunday was terrible and it wasnt due to talent.......so make what ever conclusions you would like.  In my opinion he is terrible.  No discipline.

[ATWizJr]

The Dunkin Donuts Center received $80 million in renovations less than two years ago and is located about 2.5 miles from campus. It's hardly a DePaul-like situation. Heck, it's not that much farther than the BC is for most Marquette students. Georgetown plays in an arena further from their campus. Don't see it holding them back much.

I'd suggest big-money offers from the NBA and Clemson, respectively, had more to do with Pitino and Barnes leaving than with Providence being among the most difficult jobs in the country. I suppose one could say "If it were easy to succeed at Kansas, Larry Brown and Roy Williams would still be there."

What makes Providence more difficult to recruit to than, say, Storrs, Conn.? Or Manhattan, Kan.?  Or West Lafayette, Ind. (eeww)?Or, for that matter, Milwaukee, Wis.?

Renovations or not, the facility is subpar, the school has an enrollment of 3,000 and RI is not a hotbed of recruits for D1 play.

[smellofhotbeeftips]

"If it were easy to succeed at Kansas, Larry Brown would still be there."

Brown was caught with his pants down. He was boneing a cheerleader.

[Pakuni]

Looks like the honeymoon is over for Keno.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/blog/the_dagger/post/Trouble-in-Providence-Davis-taking-heat-after-F?urn=ncaab,215414

[rocky_warrior]

Looks like the honeymoon is over for Keno.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/blog/the_dagger/post/Trouble-in-Providence-Davis-taking-heat-after-F?urn=ncaab,215414

Wow, reading the article, you'd think Buzz should be under fire too for his identical 11-8 record, and similar comments about not having enough good players. 

I guess we throttled PC though, so it's all ok...

[Pakuni]

Wow, reading the article, you'd think Buzz should be under fire too for his identical 11-8 record, and similar comments about not having enough good players. 

I guess we throttled PC though, so it's all ok...

I'm pretty certain Buzz would be under fire if he followed a 30-point loss to a middle-of-the-pack team by blowing a 12-point lead w/2:00 to play at home to a bottom dweller...  followed by putting all the blame on the players and none on himself. (Not to mention a 22-point home loss to a so-so Louisville team and a home loss to Iona).

I'm pretty sure that's never happened in the past two years, but maybe I missed it when it did.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'm pretty certain Buzz would be under fire if he followed a 30-point loss to a middle-of-the-pack team by blowing a 12-point lead w/2:00 to play at home to a bottom dweller...  followed by putting all the blame on the players and none on himself. (Not to mention a 22-point home loss to a so-so Louisville team and a home loss to Iona).

I'm pretty sure that's never happened in the past two years, but maybe I missed it when it did.

I'm pretty sure that the previous 6 years at PC were much different than the previous 6 at MU as well, meaning that Buzz and Keno started from completely different jump points.   Apples and Oranges, but it's good to see Rivals.com is still alive.  Thought they had gone dead, but with leading edge journalism like this, they are certainly going to stay around for a long time.


The first comment is of note: "Just thought I'd mention that Jim Donaldson is not the most liked sports writer in this area and he usually says outrageous things that nobody agrees with. I'm not even sure why he still has a job to be honest because he's pretty much a D-bag. PC is a young team with no big men down low defensively. Most people in the area knew that PC wasn't going to be any good on defense this year and they'll be lucky to finish around .500. I actually think the talent Keno has brought in has been solid and he has a 2 top 100 recruits coming in next season. "

[Pakuni]

I'm pretty sure that the previous 6 years at PC were much different than the previous 6 at MU as well, meaning that Buzz and Keno started from completely different jump points.   Apples and Oranges, but it's good to see Rivals.com is still alive.  Thought they had gone dead, but with leading edge journalism like this, they are certainly going to stay around for a long time.

Actually, Rivals for 2+ years has been part Yahoo! Sports, which has been regularly kicking tail on the likes of ESPN and SI on college sports stories  (just ask Pete Carroll, Reggie Bush and Jim Calhoun).
Try to keep up.

Just wondering, though, what does blowing a 9-point lead with 49 seconds to play at home against a team entering at 1-5 in conference have to do with the state of Providence basketball in 2004?
I'm guessing the correct answer is "Nothing."
Fact is, a decently coached high school team shouldn't blow that kind of lead to Kentucky in 49 seconds.

[smellofhotbeeftips]

A) You're not new around here

B) I thought we were talking about Keno, why did you bring up the other guy...strange for a "new" guy around here to be bringing it up.

LOL   

why do you give such love to the tanned one? is this homo eroticism?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Actually, Rivals for 2+ years has been part Yahoo! Sports, which has been regularly kicking tail on the likes of ESPN and SI on college sports stories  (just ask Pete Carroll, Reggie Bush and Jim Calhoun).
Try to keep up.

Just wondering, though, what does blowing a 9-point lead with 49 seconds to play at home against a team entering at 1-5 in conference have to do with the state of Providence basketball in 2004?
I'm guessing the correct answer is "Nothing."
Fact is, a decently coached high school team shouldn't blow that kind of lead to Kentucky in 49 seconds.

Yes, Eric Winter at Yahoo Sports is a great friend of mine...I worked with him here for a number of years.  And I do know about the association, but I honestly had thought it was Rivals being the bit player, not the other way around.  I'm surprised Rivals got top billing on it and not Yahoo, but that must be part of their agreement.  Yahoo bought Rivals several years ago for a very small sum, something like $90 million if I recall.  I didn't realize that part of the agreement was to keep the name in play...it's so nostalgic and cute.  It seems to me it's all Yahoo Sports basically, but their agreement must keep Rivals.com name alive.  Hell, even the XM name is still alive.  Go figure.

The reason why 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008 are significant is because of what the coach is walking into, what expectations are, what they have to work with, etc.  It's all pretty elementary.  I agree, you shouldn't lose a game up by 9 points with 49 seconds left.  Definitely a gag job.  You shouldn't lose a game to DePaul either.  Go figure.

[Clam Crowder]

He's bringing in better recruits than PC has seen since the Pete Gillen era with Godd Shamgodd and their elite 8 team. He's a great recruiter, but his coaching is comparable to Buzz. Buzz inherited a great team last year, and deserves little credit for what they did last year. Buzz and Keno are on the same level.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

From the article:

"In 2008-09, Providence was expected to have its struggles. Some could even say the Friars played above expectations. Davis had tempered expecations from an understanding fanbase. But that's not the case in 2010. "

Are there any other schools, say, in the Midwest, that find themselves in similar situations? Maybe if Keno was a little bit better at PR, the media wouldn't be brow beating him.

[Clam Crowder]

I don't know what idiot would think PC would be good this year. Jamine Peterson was redshirted last year and nobody could predict the great season he has had. Look at his numbers. In addition PC is struggling because one of their better players is playing absolutely awful. The PC bench is full of freshman (and first year JUCO recruits), and if I had the choice between our slim bench and their all freshman one I would take ours. Look at his class next year, pretty similar to ours

[ChicosBailBonds]

From the article:

"In 2008-09, Providence was expected to have its struggles. Some could even say the Friars played above expectations. Davis had tempered expecations from an understanding fanbase. But that's not the case in 2010. "

Are there any other schools, say, in the Midwest, that find themselves in similar situations? Maybe if Keno was a little bit better at PR, the media wouldn't be brow beating him.

Part of the problem is that Providence has to deal with the East Coast media that is never kind to anyone.  Plus, he's a midwest guy in an eastern part of the country.  I always felt, perhaps wrongly, that the midwest news outlets were much kinder and gentler on the coaches than the eastern writers.  Perhaps ecompt has an opinion on that, since he was very much in the middle of all that.

[Lennys Tap]

Yes, Eric Winter at Yahoo Sports is a great friend of mine...I worked with him here for a number of years.  And I do know about the association, but I honestly had thought it was Rivals being the bit player, not the other way around.  I'm surprised Rivals got top billing on it and not Yahoo, but that must be part of their agreement.  Yahoo bought Rivals several years ago for a very small sum, something like $90 million if I recall.  I didn't realize that part of the agreement was to keep the name in play...it's so nostalgic and cute.  It seems to me it's all Yahoo Sports basically, but their agreement must keep Rivals.com name alive.  Hell, even the XM name is still alive.  Go figure.

The reason why 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008 are significant is because of what the coach is walking into, what expectations are, what they have to work with, etc.  It's all pretty elementary.  I agree, you shouldn't lose a game up by 9 points with 49 seconds left.  Definitely a gag job.  You shouldn't lose a game to DePaul either.  Go figure.

Probably shouldn't lose to Loyola (Maryland) or Iowa (by 15) at home either. Go figure.

[4everwarriors]

Did they lose to BU also?

[mviale]

George Mason too

[ChicosBailBonds]

Probably shouldn't lose to Loyola (Maryland) or Iowa (by 15) at home either. Go figure.

Probably not, but I don't think they had any 1st team All Big East players on the team nor are they a team that has gone to 4 straight NCAA appearances....in other words, the team and program he inherited is a little bit different...go figure.

[ChicosBailBonds]

George Mason too

They did not lose to George Mason....they didn't even play George Mason.  They did find a way to beat DePaul by 17 points on the road, however.

[Pakuni]

They did not lose to George Mason....they didn't even play George Mason.  They did find a way to beat DePaul by 17 points on the road, however.

And lose to Marquette by 30.
Don't forget that.

[ChicosBailBonds]

And lose to Marquette by 30.
Don't forget that.

Absolutely....shall be a fun game when we go back to Providence.  Probably a chippy game based on the last couple of games with them.